vt ss air con leaks

[VTSSLS1]

hi all l have had air con problem in my vt ls1 ss for last 4 months had pump, condenser , avap and tx changed and regased four times at two big aircon specialist with dye leaks out after 4 weeks with no dye showing up any where hold gas pressures on tests and passes they say it cant be found

[hypdupvx]

Would like to know this one too.. coz I have a similar prob with my vx doing same.. air con looses its chill touch and becomes nothing few weeks after the gas is topped up.. and other than pullin all dash out I dunno what they can do to find issue :(

[Aus_SS]

Apparently there are a few ac issues with the VT but no one ever posts up what they did to get it working in the end !
I have re gassed mine recently for the 5th time since october (when i bought the car )
after replacing gaskets tx valve all o rings ,can of stop leak yet nothing seamed to work ,evidently the evap in a vt is not that common a place to leak (mainly heater core)
Spoke to a friend of mine that works for Holden ,he told me that the lines from the compressor to the tx valve leak either through the hose OR where they are crimped on to the hose ,
I replaced the hose then looked at the joins with the UV light and found a green flouro ring around one of the lines ( where it had the crimped fitting) ,re gassed it again (about 3 weeks ago and all appears good so far
to replace line
airbox off radiator out, overflow bottle out ,unbolt powertrain module (bolted to the skirt ,undo one bolt in the middle under radiator ,undo hose from compressor .............then re fit everything !
I also replaced the condenser at the time as well as the dryer (just because i was not sure about the hose when i was told and had already bought it )

Hopefully that helps you out !

Edit
I have a friend that has the AC re gassing gear and I have been the one looking for the leak and doing the work ................I would HATE to do this for a living as nothing is simple !!!!

[VTSSLS1]

the first time we replaced all o rings second time took off friends vy his pump third time went to friends wreckers and got second hand avap and condenser tested work in car before removed then had degassed and took them out and put in mine, same 3to 4 weeks gas is 80% gone .then used old hoses from wreckers and new tx valve and clip lite stop leak put on and still same gas gone and no dye any where found again .yesterday l had re gassed and dye put in again and tested from third air con big place same thing cant find leak told me to come back in three week to see if dye has shown leak .if they say cant find leak l will spend 1200 dollars that l have had priced up today to buy all parts brand new to make up complete unit and fit the hole thing brand new ,what ever the leak is its some thing silly.l have seen some vts with this problem before some easy fix and some a pain to to find leak :vpo:

[Micks]

Something else to try a little liquid soap in a sprayer bottle with water, shake it up & spray over suspect lines & fittings. No good for checking front comp. mechanical seal though.
Next best bet is isolate each part of the system & pressure test, bit of fiddling around but is the best method.
Good luck with it.

Cheers
VYT

[whitels1ss]

I had a problem with mine, it turned out to be the manifold o rings which are the seals in the joint of the pipes into the compressor. To me it looks like a poor design because there are two pipes each sealed with an o ring being held into the compressor by one stud through a plate which pivots with one nut in the middle.
My air cond guy told me that those o rings and the actual compressor seals are both very common problems.
The compressors are not cheap either!
Good luck mate!

[vr5speedv6]

the first time we replaced all o rings second time took off friends vy his pump third time went to friends wreckers and got second hand avap and condenser tested work in car before removed then had degassed and took them out and put in mine, same 3to 4 weeks gas is 80% gone .then used old hoses from wreckers and new tx valve and clip lite stop leak put on and still same gas gone and no dye any where found again .yesterday l had re gassed and dye put in again and tested from third air con big place same thing cant find leak told me to come back in three week to see if dye has shown leak .if they say cant find leak l will spend 1200 dollars that l have had priced up today to buy all parts brand new to make up complete unit and fit the hole thing brand new ,what ever the leak is its some thing silly.l have seen some vts with this problem before some easy fix and some a pain to to find leak :vpo:

Check the valve where they re-gas it through next to the radiator. That's where mine was leaking it doesn't show up on the leak test.

[Aus_SS]

yep i did forget to mention the schraeder valves .........that was another one i did ..........cant see a dye leak out of those as its where the dye goes in !

one thing i will say is i gassed up my system the 2md time and added dye ,it has stayed in there ever since ,have not had to top that up !

[nate698]

this really frustrates me ... it is actually illegal to just top up or refill a system without fixing the leak
dies are generally pretty shite
proper electronic leak detectors should be used my the mechanics
it is not uncommon for evaporators to pit on the return bends and leak
check all shrader valves .. check the condenser return bends as well also the reciever everthing around the compresser up to the tx valve .
i know they are nessicary but also check over your rubber suction line as the can split

[whitels1ss]

this really frustrates me ... it is actually illegal to just top up or refill a system without fixing the leak


There is no sight glass to know how much gas there is in there anymore, there is no other way of doing it,
they have to weigh the gas to get the right charge mate. :)

[Aus_SS]

I have been over my car with an electronic leak detector (sniffer) i have been out at midnight with the uv light .........stuck the sniffer up under the dash ,trust me WHOEVER is playing with your AC is NOT having fun ...........I have spent so much time replacing a bit at a time whilst doing the checks
evidently the compressor on the LS1 does not have the same issues as the v6 one so i have been told by Holden guy to discount that .....all i have left to replace if mine still leaks out is the evap unit (god i hope not) or the compressor itself !
as i said earlier finding a leak is a bastard of a job !........thought i was the only one silly enough to be working on aircon during winter !

[nate698]

There is no sight glass to know how much gas there is in there anymore, there is no other way of doing it,
they have to weigh the gas to get the right charge mate. :)

there arent sight glasses on most sytems bud ... the system must be presurised with a refrigerant trace and leak tested with an electronic leak dectector then evactuated to 500microns or below ... if it doesnt reach 500microns there is still a leak or moisture in the system and it cannot be refilled untill the leak is fixed ... i know all about weighing in gas i do it every day =P and they arent that critical with the charge .. its quite simple to charge a unit without weighing it in if you know what you are doing .

[whitels1ss]

there arent sight glasses on most sytems bud ... .

I know!
They have not had sight glasses since they changed over from R12 gas to R34! (That was around 1993 from memory.)
That is why I said in my post that there is no sight glass and you cannot top them up anymore! (You used to be able to with the old gas.)
Buddy, I have been in the trade 35 years and have 2 mates who run car air cond places and both of them bend the rules for me,
but neither would top up the gas without first emptying the system and vaccing it down because there is just no other way of doing it.

[stompa]

Does any of you guys know what a place would roughly charge just to find a leak

[nate698]

I know!
They have not had sight glasses since they changed over from R12 gas to R34! (That was around 1993 from memory.)
That is why I said in my post that there is no sight glass and you cannot top them up anymore! (You used to be able to with the old gas.)
Buddy, I have been in the trade 35 years and have 2 mates who run car air cond places and both of them bend the rules for me,
but neither would top up the gas without first emptying the system and vaccing it down because there is just no other way of doing it.

it was around that time that they changed to R134a yes . i took your last post the wrong way but even with out a sight glass you can still "top them up" by knowing operating pressures and by quite simply making the evap a static coil and checking for liquid floodback . it just frustrates me when i hear mechanics say you just need to top it up . considering i would get a very heafty fine if i just topped up a supermarket rack system without repairing the leak (and by heafty im talking above 10G for me and above 100G for the company) i just feel that a/c in the mechanics industry is not very well policed and not many care about letting a couple of kg of refrigerant go to atmosphere rather than recovering it when there is so much awareness out there about how much refrigerants contribute to global warming and depleting the ozone that anyone who doesnt recover refrigerant is comptely wreckless . you get around $5 a kg for recovered refrigerant anyway so why not recover it and make some money rather than letting it go .

sorry for killing the thread

[VTSSLS1]

l rang jay air in Melbourne today to get price to get me ready to buy whole unit .he told me don't waste money on whole system . if you don't find leak again change pipes that come off compressor they some times leak on low side and don't show up because its on low side this is a big fault on ls1's and o ring seals then pump then avap or condenser .

[Aus_SS]

pretty much what i said earlier ! look back and there is the instructions on how to change them .........around $200 or so for the hose and it comes with compressor "O" rings already on it !
good luck !

[hypdupvx]

this is a good thread coz im just keeping notes on what maybe the cause and when summer comes and if mine still doesnt work ill have a list to get things checked out lol.. not paying good money on fixing it yet when dont need to.

[Aus_SS]

this is a good thread coz im just keeping notes on what maybe the cause and when summer comes and if mine still doesnt work ill have a list to get things checked out lol.. not paying good money on fixing it yet when dont need to.
better to fix it now before warmer , weather gets here and they get busy !

[OzJavelin]

When the A/C stopped working in my VY1 the dealer blamed the whatchamacallit valves, replaced them and regassed the system. In about a day it stopped working again. When they looked properly, they realised that the flexible line in the powersteering was rubbing against the alloy A/C line and had rubbed a hole in it. Check your A/C lines aren't fouling on anything ..

[skidmarx]

Lol. I think you mean 'TX Valve' :p

For anyone interested, it does the same thing as a cap on a can of deodorant. Turns a High Pressure liquid, into a Low Pressure vapor, via means of a restriction.

[HSV590]

Lol. I think you mean 'TX Valve' :p

For anyone interested, it does the same thing as a cap on a can of deodorant. Turns a High Pressure liquid, into a Low Pressure vapor, via means of a restriction.

Unless he's referring to the "control valve" in the compressor itself...

[VTSSLS1]

today it stopped work after 4 weeks .l took it back to the air con bloke he said no leak found with dye when he looked at it ,he said there was 30% gas left in it .l told him to de vac system for me .he said it would cost $2500 to replace whole thing that's the way he would go . l went home and pulled out the hole air con unit and l mean the hole thing dash and all, and looked at it all with uv light late at night and found two dye stain one large one on the avap in heater box and one small one on low pressure rubber hose under it's protective felt boot near compressor ,so now going to pick up the hoses and avap and receiver dryer and put it back to gether and l'll let you know how l go. so that tort me not to us second hand air con parts to save money buy new and save time and the head stuff around .

[Aus_SS]

bugger
think i am going to be in the same position as you STILL no dye leaks showing up BUT ac has lost gas again :( all i have left is the compressor and the evap ...no evidence of dye around the compressor though .......how long did you take to pull the dash out of the car ?
on a side note ,these cars are getting to the age where the heater core could let go .............maybe you should think about putting a new heater core in at the same time ,would hate to think that you would have to go through the dash strip out again IF heater core were to let go !

[Aus_SS]

one last question
when you were out looking around with the uv light did you notice any dye around the drain tube ? i only ask because if the evap is leaking it is possible that some dye would make its way down from the leak to the drain ...just wondering as it may help someone else with a diagnosis :)

[VTSSLS1]

their were no dye stains at drain hole .l put new one in it took me 5 hours to do the hole job not bad . its ok but does,nt get as cold as old one and is a little slow in cooling as old one was very quick .old one was very quick in getting down between 1.5 to zero on hi fan speed new one get down to 6 quick then getting it down very slow then 10 to 15 minutes then runs between 2.5 and 4 on hi speed and on speed 2 it gets between 1.5 to 2.5 . the air con bloke said this is very normal running temps for air con and that my old one was running too efficient and to give new one time to loosen up as the new pump is very tight is this true or am l being fussy

[Aus_SS]

so you fitted a new compressor as well !
I am hoping that my compressor is ok (no evidence of dye in the engine bay at all now ) ,at least i can get mine re gassed through a friend so if i have to change that later its not to bad

[VTSSLS1]

so you fitted a new compressor as well !
I am hoping that my compressor is ok (no evidence of dye in the engine bay at all now ) ,at least i can get mine re gassed through a friend so if i have to change that later its not to bad



all pressures are spot on as well on gauges show a healthy air con .

[VTSSLS1]

so you fitted a new compressor as well !
I am hoping that my compressor is ok (no evidence of dye in the engine bay at all now ) ,at least i can get mine re gassed through a friend so if i have to change that later its not to bad

if you need l've got 2 good compressor

[Aus_SS]

yep i guess finding the hose leak and the evap leak you would have a compressor spare ...will see how i go with mine ,will get evap and heater core changed and re gas it and see what happens ..i do have a spare comp BUT it is from a VZ evidently different !

[VTSSLS1]

yep i guess finding the hose leak and the evap leak you would have a compressor spare ...will see how i go with mine ,will get evap and heater core changed and re gas it and see what happens ..i do have a spare comp BUT it is from a VZ evidently different !
DONT GO TO BURSON REPCO OR HOLDEN or radiator place just ring cool drive in boxhill Melbourne direct phone number 03 9896 7300 ask for ashly he will help you out and they can deliver for small fee . they supply the shops so go direct, bursun told me $280 just for evap .direct from cooldrive part number ev3293 $161 plus tax = $177 ,$103 cheaper . compressor was $400 condenser was $110 small liquid line $24.14 receiver dryer $9.59, hoses off pump $200 tx value was $42 . l saved around $400 doing research and going direct no middle man making money .so work it out $800 to $1100 to do avap at shop or $780 to do hoses off pump or new pump $880 or condenser for $500 so that's why l did work my self and changed whole thing and had it regased at shop only

[Aus_SS]

I have a friend that works at holden ,i get them at great prices its easy i just ring him and he organises them for me ....i have the evap and heater core ready to do the job ...any tips before i start ????

[VTSSLS1]

I have a friend that works at holden ,i get them at great prices its easy i just ring him and he organises them for me ....i have the evap and heater core ready to do the job ...any tips before i start ????

start at center console then work over to glove box then cluster then remove then pipes left and right for heating and cooling then remove l/h air bag make shore battery is off and only put back on when finish, then unscrew dash pad then remove that and last of all there are two screws up right one on left and on on right that hold heater box in remove tx and hoses from heater core and screws from fire wall then your out it will take 4 hours to do. first time l did took 4 hours second time 3 hour and two hour in engine bay.

[Aus_SS]

Came home from work tonight and thought stuff it ............pulled the car apart .about 1.5 hours to remove everything ,just nuts bolts and screws ,easy enough just tedious to do ,sure enough evap had a hole in it ,just one maybe the size of a pinhead with that tell tale dye around it ,all changed over ,just need to finish assembly in the morning ,glad i bought a heater core as well as i would hate to have to re pull it all apart for the sake of a $70 part !

[VTSSLS1]

so it looks like the evap's are a fault in vt to vx poor quality made. l think they should last longer . l have seen a lot of commodores from vt to vx with air con fault ,and a lot easy fix and a hand full you cant find dye any where so that means evap

[Aus_SS]

appears that the evap may be faulty :( that being said the hole im mine was so small i was beginning to think i had pulled it out for no reason ,also explains why it held gas for 4 weeks or so (was even some still left in in ...........its ok i degassed it in my garage not in the open LOL)
I will say though IF you have an evap leak it will be impossible to check with a sniffer or dye unless removed ,there was no evidence of dye in the heater box at all (so putting the car on a hoist to shine the uv light around would have no benefit
In short for anyone else that does a search on VT ac problems
If you cannot see dye around your engine bay it will be 1 of 2 things
hose from compressor to the firewall or the evap itself
hose is about 2 hours to change and you will get dirty
evap will take between 4 to 6 hours to remove ,replace parts and re fit everything
you do not have to drain the coolant but you will get about 4 tablespoons leak into your cabin
strongly suggest that you change your heater core at the same time as these cars are getting older and it is not something you would want to do again

tools needed
phillips screwdriver
think it was an 8mm a 10 mm and a 13 mm inside (8 and 13 are for the passenger airbag ) under the bonnet you will need a long 10mm a pair of pliers (pointy) to undo those stupid spring hose clamps) and a star type screwdriver to remove the tx valve from the evap
it is also easier to have someone help you for about 10 mins to help you remove (check ALL hoses are removed ..1 from vac and 1 from heater tap ) and to get it re mounted
On a side note ,my glove box bracket broke upon re assembly ........fixed that today with a plumbing fitting a bit of thin plate and some pop rivets .......i must say that left side plastic loop leaves a lot to be desired

[ice57l]

my vx has the same problem. Thanks for the tips on what to look for and where to get parts....

[deano23x]

pm me if anyone wants car aircon repairs or for it to be looked at (leak tested) (recharged) will do cheap for members of LS1

[XmFoRdFaLcOn]

ahhhh you gotta love VT/VX A/C systems. They are what keep us in business :P Glad to hear you have finally sussed it out. If I had of read this thread earlier I would have told you its the evap for sure. I have done heaps of them at work. Along with control valves, compressors etc. The V8 compressors fail just as much as the v6 compressors by the way. The alloy body itself actually corrodes away where the seals sit. 9 time out of 10 a seal kit wont fix it and theyre a throw away item. Good old Delphi crap.

[LSavvy]

All A/C systems leak without showing a trace (and i'm not talking about a normal hole or seal type leak), just like any tyre leaks that does not have a hole in it. Every so often you have to check your tyres and top up the air in them.

R134a is a "thinner" gas than R12 and will dissapear over time at a greater rate than R12 did.

R134a was a con, it was intoduced as an environmentally friendly gas, it was later proven not to be as good as first thought, it's a shame as the R12 worked much better.

Alot of the early delphi compressors failed because people were using the incorrect oil when regasing in the early days (VT, VX).

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h221/ssute57l/dash%20leds/my%20ride/04012010_002.jpg

Note the differences in the oils (disregard the dye on the right).

http://www.airsept.com/Articles/CompressorGuard/Motor4.01.pdf



dies are generally pretty shite
proper electronic leak detectors should be used my the mechanics


Dyes are the best system to use rather than the unreliable shite sniffers. Dye's don't lie! If it cant be seen in the engine bay side you can bet your balls it's the evap or a covered hose that is leaking as has been shown in this thread.


There is no sight glass to know how much gas there is in there anymore, there is no other way of doing it,
they have to weigh the gas to get the right charge mate. :)


Correct, as they use the unloader valve or control valve (or whatever anyone else wants to call it) in the compressor it makes it difficult to regas using gauges. These systems do not cycle, when the temp drops the compressor unloads and maintains a certain temp without cycling the compressor.

http://delphi.com/pdf/contact/brochures/Delphi_Compressors.pdf

Other system that cycle on-off can still be done using ambiant temp/pressure chart gassing using gauges.

Having said that even the R134a systems that did have a sight glass it could not be used to regas as was done with the R12 systems. A fully charged R134a system may not always show a clear sight glass.


its quite simple to charge a unit without weighing it in if you know what you are doing .

Your only guessing when topping up without weighing these delphi systems.