L76 Lifter issue (AFM)

[BLUESSV]

This topic has been discussed before about the dodgy lifters in the L76 motor with the ASFM gear. I have been reading quite extensively on the numerous forums in the States about TSB 4499B which directly relates to the replacement of the lifters in L76 motors fitted with the AFM.

In the States they are reporting that these lifters are failing and that GM have sourced replacement lifters that are apparently due out in August (now) to rectify the issue of the ticking. According to GM it mostly relates to the inability of the lifter to retain oil.

I believe my 2010 Holden SS sedan (L76 with AFM) is suffering from exactly this issue as described in the TSB. I went to my local Dealership to politely discuss the issue and establish whether the new (revised) lifters had been released yet. I simply don't want to go down the path of having my car assessed and repaired with faulty lifters again.

The level of service was very poor. Got told by them they had never heard of the lifter issues in the AFM motors, knew of no TSB out about the issue and referred me to Technical Support. Pretty poor in my opinion when it so widely documented in the States? Isn't the SS exported to the States and badged as a Pontiac G8?

Ended up getting phoned back by the Service Manager who confirmed no issues have been reported about the lifters in the AFM motors and there is no TSB about them. How is it that an issue can be so widely known about in the States but nothing known about it over here when we are talking about the same vehicle and same parent company?

Anyway that is my rant for today but if someone can shed some light on how this issue can not be known about by Holden when nearly every car company in the States (owned by GM and running the AFM motors) have clearly documented a major issue to the point where there is a TSB and revised part on the way??

[boggers007]

They obviously dont wanna admit to there being faulty parts as they would have to go thru and replace the lifters etc which is a fairly decent sized job. Also as i have been made well aware most of the people that work for holden in the service department and just monkeys in red uniforms who really wouldnt be able to handle such a job. So my guess is they are just saying that they have no reported cases as they wouldnt have to get yours replaced which they may not be able to do a satisfactory job.

[macca_779]

Unlike alot of us the people that work at Holden Dealerships aren't enthusiests. Becuase of that they don't tend to keep up to date with current developments/issues with our engines, especially if abroad. If there is a Bulletin issued then they will have the ability to act on it. Till then your on your own unfortunantly.

[VX-300]

Link to PIP4499B: Start Up Lifter Tick Noise After Engine Has Been Off For 2 Hours Or More
http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=14256

[BLUESSV]

Yes VX-300, that is just one example of the info you can find on the net about this lifter issue. The PIP4499B actually sets out which motors are affected, which obviously include Ponitac G8 with the L76 motor.

I asked the Service Manager, "If we build the SS here and export it to the States for it to be badged as a Ponitac, and they're running the same drivetrain, why does Holden not recognise this TSB?" The answer, "Because they run different fuels, engine oil viscocities and have different emissions controls over there. They must be having lifter issue because of something relating that. But Australia has no lifter issues?"

Does he not know the vehicles over there that are having issues (Pontiac G8 amongst others) are Commodores manufactured in Australia?? So frustrating it makes me want to drive the car through the showroom front window!!

[VX-300]

They've also had the AFM L76 in the G8-GT on the road since early 2008, so they have more mileage and experience in USA with switching lifters than here.

[HEXEM]

Hey Bluessv,

I to made the same inquires at my local dealer, although my relationship with them means I don't get told the obvious. (The L76 uses a 50/50 mix of L98 and DOD lifters)

They checked the system for a techline or service bulletin and there was nothing relating to noisy lifters or lifter issues (revised parts) for either L98, L76 or LS3. It was a case of refer the issue to the Holden district service manager and from there Holden TAS.

I think (IMO) that the lifter issue is handled by dealerships based on when the customer complains about the issue. Not all of the V8's have this issue although there seem to be more and more of them coming out of the woodwork. Since my car was done (for the second time) my local dealer is handling a few more suffering the same issue. However I agree if the US is replacing them with a revised lifter you would hope that the same one has been changed in Aust.

The lifters used in these engine are an ACDelco brand. Maybe you could contact ACDelco and ask if they know of a change is part or design?. The other thing you could do is ask the spare part dept for the part numbers for the L76 and ask if there was a change in part numbers recently. If you hit a snag there send me a PM and I'll chase it for you.

As the L76 uses a mix of liter types I am not sure that the issue is specific to the DOD lifter. It might be the other lifters at fault which were bleading down (such as whats in my car)? But I am not a mechanic so I am probably wrong... :)

Cheers
Phil

[CLUBRED]

Are the engines assembled here?

[Wonky]

Are the engines assembled here?

Mexico or even Canada I believe - certainly not here.

[gmh308]

Yes VX-300, that is just one example of the info you can find on the net about this lifter issue. The PIP4499B actually sets out which motors are affected, which obviously include Ponitac G8 with the L76 motor.

I asked the Service Manager, "If we build the SS here and export it to the States for it to be badged as a Ponitac, and they're running the same drivetrain, why does Holden not recognise this TSB?" The answer, "Because they run different fuels, engine oil viscocities and have different emissions controls over there. They must be having lifter issue because of something relating that. But Australia has no lifter issues?"

Does he not know the vehicles over there that are having issues (Pontiac G8 amongst others) are Commodores manufactured in Australia?? So frustrating it makes me want to drive the car through the showroom front window!!

No doubt Holden internally have the TSB as they are major customers of the Mexican engine plant in Silao where the engines are manufactured. But......they generally dont act on anything until issues become "statistically significant" after investigation etc. It will cost a lot of money to go ahead and do anything........something they would prefer to avoid....and probably will ignore until it makes it to press or enough customers complain, even though they have been chasing this issue since VZ L76's.

For this issue to make it to a TSB in the US means that it is a rather common problem, affects a lot of customers and obviously has been well identified in the field. Plus big focus on quality as GM comes back from the dead in the US.

All L76's we have seen have the Eaton AFM lifters listed in the TSB.

Dont forget GM had its head in the sand for a year or more about the noisy piston issue before it started using polymer coated pistons with much tighter initial clearances.

It'll probably pop up here eventually now that there is more and more AFM in cars.

[CLUBRED]

Mexico or even Canada I believe - certainly not here.

Granted that then, would the US guys be talking direct to them considering:

A) it engine internal related.
B) they're just up the road....

Perhaps, just maybe Holden don't actually know much about this issue??

[BLUESSV]

Find it hard to believe that Holden don't know much about this issue when little old me can find all the info I want/need from a simple Google search.

[1BEAST2NV]

I know its not L76, But I had my LS3 lifter replaced under warrenty as there were a couple that were noisey and got worse as the engine got hotter.

Took me 2 goes of drilling them and then really sticking it to them about the problem before they'd do something about it, I would'nt take "its normal and not excessive enough to be repaired under warrenty or warrent a claim to be repaired" :vpo: at that stage I wanted to drop him....because I knew it was'nt normal.

even then there pockets were THAT TIGHT they only replaced the drivers side bank of lifters which to me is fckn brain dead and stupid, but you know how they are, "fix it as CHEAP as possible".....


In the end I did cam, springs, lifters, full zorst, otr, mafless and they can JAM the warrenty up there clacker as its not worth the paper its written on :)

If its small things interior,exterior, trimmings, electrics, its not so hard and warrenty is pretty easy, but anything driveline is a fight to the end IMO..


Good luck anyway, hopefully they do the righty and fix it.

[OldDog]

Hey guys, has anyone had any more luck with this issue? I've had the issue for a while now and its steadily getting worse. I've discussed with the dealer a number of times and their attitude at the moment is to leave it go until the noise is regular then they'll fix. I'm not real happy with that as it means i could end up with an engine failure etc. I've started reseaching this more and found this thread plus a lot of U.S. recall stuff. Not happy. The dealer is 300 kms from here so before i go to see them again i'm getting some ammo. I'm doing sound recordings, getting a report from the local mechanic (not that it will make any difference but it'll be handy in my records) and a copy of the US recall info. I'll then settle in at the dealers as i want to be there with the mechanic when he reviews the info.

If i get no joy i'll start bugging GMH too.

I really enjoy this car and to have a small thing like this mar the fun is a dissapointment.

Cheers
OD

[Wonky]

I know its not L76, But I had my LS3 lifter replaced under warrenty as there were a couple that were noisey and got worse as the engine got hotter.

I had some effectively brand new LS3 lifters (from an LS3 crate motor that had cam/springs/lifters etc done before being used) put in my L76 when the LS7 cam was installed. After less than 5,000km when Chev/Big Rob went to replace the cam they found a bit of metal on the end of the magnets they used to hold the pushrods up. Turned out one of the lifters had already started to cark it! :mad: Very fortunate it went in for cam swap or could have found out the hard way............. :bawl:

Now have a set of LS7 installed plus got a second set which are now on eBay (couldn't sell on here as were new). If anyone is interested I'll sell cheaper to a forum member. :yup:

[peter b]

While it is a techline in the States. It probably isn't here. Not all techlines are linked between the US and here. Yes it is a GM engine understand that but Holden here have to recognise that there is an issue and for that need people to go in and complain about them being noisey. The dealer then has to fill out appropriate paperwork and send it in. Whilst one form will not cause any action the more they get then they will look into the issue and then and only then they will action a techline to repair the issue.
Not all problems the US get we get however and we get some that they dont.
The LS1 was a tried and tested engine over in the US but when we got it, some used oil, some had oil pump failures etc which Holden went about coming up with a fix not chevrolet as they didnt have these issues.
In the VX we had Gudgeon pin knock (hot knock) the US didn't again Holden actioned a fix and rebuilt even more engines.
So I would say it is hard to hold your local Holden dealer at fault for an issue that they know nothing about. Whilst it is an issue in the US or even said to be an issue it is not here.
If it was a broad issue then Holden would be able to check it and come up with a fix whilever they arent told they don't know and as such until revised parts come nothing will be done. There will be a part revision yes but that is after the US have it and Holden don't get explanations for any part revision just that they are better and old part is NLA.
My advice book the car in let them hear the noise and give them a go at repairing it under warranty. Atleast then they will be able to fill out the appropriate forms and let Holden HQ know that there possibly an issue as it is unknown how many are suffering this noise here.

[Roonstain]

I had some effectively brand new LS3 lifters (from an LS3 crate motor that had cam/springs/lifters etc done before being used) put in my L76 when the LS7 cam was installed. After less than 5,000km when Chev/Big Rob went to replace the cam they found a bit of metal on the end of the magnets they used to hold the pushrods up. Turned out one of the lifters had already started to cark it! :mad: Very fortunate it went in for cam swap or could have found out the hard way............. :bawl:

Now have a set of LS7 installed plus got a second set which are now on eBay (couldn't sell on here as were new). If anyone is interested I'll sell cheaper to a forum member. :yup:
I just hope you have better luck with the LS7's wonks than me!
PBM (made by morel) tiebars are what I am using this time

[gmh308]

I had some effectively brand new LS3 lifters (from an LS3 crate motor that had cam/springs/lifters etc done before being used) put in my L76 when the LS7 cam was installed. After less than 5,000km when Chev/Big Rob went to replace the cam they found a bit of metal on the end of the magnets they used to hold the pushrods up. Turned out one of the lifters had already started to cark it! :mad: Very fortunate it went in for cam swap or could have found out the hard way............. :bawl:

Now have a set of LS7 installed plus got a second set which are now on eBay (couldn't sell on here as were new). If anyone is interested I'll sell cheaper to a forum member. :yup:


What'r you asking for left over lifters Mr wonky sir?

cheers! :)

[theco]

:confused: I guess if you have an L76 make sure your oil is clean by changing it regularly.

[OldDog]

Thanks for that clarification Fabre, that makes a lot of sense. I did originally take the car in and leave it there and they did hear the noise but told me that until it gets worse (more continuous) they can't diagnose it. They also felt that an oil change would resolve the issue and were quite rude to me when i explained that after they had done the 15000 km service the opil change had, if anything made the noise worse. They didn't offer to do anything about it though. I ended up getting cranky with their attitude so that won't have helped for the future i guess.
I've now spoken to Holden customer assistance and they are gonne give me a hand, the bloke i spoke to has given me more assistance than anyone so far.
If you want to be entertained by the full blow by blow story with vid and sound the theres a thread over on Just commodores titled Warranty Claim - am i being reasonable. Unfortunately i'm still a noob here and can't post links.
Cheers
OD

[vicarious]

for olddog

http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e291/Olddog750/?action=view&current=P1000252.mp4

[VX-300]

I had some effectively brand new LS3 lifters (from an LS3.
Now have a set of LS7 installed


I think you'll find LS2/LS3/LS7 and replacement LS1 lifters from GM are all the same.

12499225
LS-Series camshaft Lifter kit (not shown)
• Set of 16 lifters for LS-Series engines
• Same lifter used in LS2 and LS7 P/N 17122490 (single lifter)

[OldDog]

Thanks Vicarious, much appreciated!

Listen to that baby rattle!

[Wonky]

I think you'll find LS2/LS3/LS7 and replacement LS1 lifters from GM are all the same.

12499225
LS-Series camshaft Lifter kit (not shown)
• Set of 16 lifters for LS-Series engines
• Same lifter used in LS2 and LS7 P/N 17122490 (single lifter)

Yep, I've just double checked and that confirms what I had originally thought! However, the supposedly stock ones I bought from a fellow forum member from the new LS3 crate motor Chev installed cam, tie-bar lifters in etc were definitely different!! :weirdo:

Will have to see if I can find the pics Chev took of the stuffed one because we compared it to the LS7 one and instead of having like a circlip (LS7 lifter on left) the ones we removed from my engine which were supposedly LS3 just had like a thin pin/bar across as in the picture on the right below (and no circlip) . I'm bloody confused now!

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS3supposedLS3lifter.jpg

[peter b]

Thanks for that clarification Fabre, that makes a lot of sense. I did originally take the car in and leave it there and they did hear the noise but told me that until it gets worse (more continuous) they can't diagnose it. They also felt that an oil change would resolve the issue and were quite rude to me when i explained that after they had done the 15000 km service the opil change had, if anything made the noise worse. They didn't offer to do anything about it though. I ended up getting cranky with their attitude so that won't have helped for the future i guess.
I've now spoken to Holden customer assistance and they are gonne give me a hand, the bloke i spoke to has given me more assistance than anyone so far.
If you want to be entertained by the full blow by blow story with vid and sound the theres a thread over on Just commodores titled Warranty Claim - am i being reasonable. Unfortunately i'm still a noob here and can't post links.
Cheers
OD

I think that particular dealer is clutching at straws. Unfortunately an oil change isn't really going to fix lifter rattle. I wish it did as things would be an easy fix but nothing in life is easy. Maybe take it to a different dealer but unfortunately at this point in time I think if they were to replace lifters they would be with the same type and being AFM your stuck with lifters specific to that model unless you want to change camshaft which would then involve turning AFM off anyway. Note to do a camshaft in an AFM equipped vehicle your looking at changing lifters and getting rid off AFM altogether. Only cam that will fit in keeping AFM is so small it really not worth the effort is better just to do bolt ons and tune. AFM runs different lifters for the cylinders which shut off and also run a different camshaft which has a smaller base on the cylinders which shut off.
I do understand your frustration as car is under warranty and this is a warrantable issue. My advice maybe just hold off until the revised lifter from the states reaches us as then atleast they will change the lifters with them.

[whitels1ss]

just had like a thin pin/bar across as in the picture on the right below (and no circlip) . I'm bloody confused now!

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS3supposedLS3lifter.jpg
Hey Gary, the one on the right looks as though it has a circlip under the thin pin/bar to me from those pics? :confused:
It would come apart without a circlip anyway.:)
That red pin/bar thing looks weird, I do not get what it is.:confused:

[fishla]

LOL!!

The pics are the same!

I think Wonky has added in the red line in an attempt to explain :lol:

[whitels1ss]

LOL!!

The pics are the same!

I think Wonky has added in the red line in an attempt to explain :lol:


Yeah... I just read Wonky's post as he did it, pics and all! :doh::doh::doh:
:stupid: I thought that red thing looked like a photochop! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

:hide::hide::hide:

[Northy]

Yeah... I just read Wonky's post as he did it, pics and all! :doh::doh::doh:
:stupid: I thought that red thing looked like a photochop! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

:hide::hide::hide:

Group Buy on Photoshop Spec Lifters?

On a side note, My Series II SSV sounds just like the one in the video and Holden have said thats "normal" Walkinshaw were/are very worried.

[Roonstain]

for olddog

http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e291/Olddog750/?action=view&current=P1000252.mp4
Mine sounded similar to this when I knew the motor was fcuked - even the same bank of lifters!

Mine ended up being cylinder 4 exhaust lifter was missing alot of the body of the lifter and the roller was all mangled - I'll put a pic up here later

[Roonstain]

Here is a couple of photos I promised:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk26/Roonstain/IMG_0023.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk26/Roonstain/IMG_0021.jpg

[alian]

This problen has been around since 2006 when the L76 was 1st introduced into the VZs.
Back then Holden replaced my liffters but put the AFM (DOD they called them back then) lifters back in. wasnt till I replaced the lifter when I put the blower on that I finaly rid myself of the dreaded lifter noise. It has been well documented about the early L76 lifter problems. looks like thay have not really done to much to improve them.
Cheers Ian

[macca33]

I just hope you have better luck with the LS7's wonks than me!
PBM (made by morel) tiebars are what I am using this time
Yep, these link-bar lifters are the go.....just have to install the pushrods properly - saves you a lot of extra work...:hide:

cheers

[Wonky]

I just hope you have better luck with the LS7's wonks than me!
PBM (made by morel) tiebars are what I am using this time

Would have loved to be able to afford tiebar lifters but they were 4 times the price of the LS7s (from the US) and after just having paid for a once-in-a-lifetime European trip before I end up permanently in a wheelchair and a wedding I couldn't justify the extra expense, especially given my car rarely gets over about 5,800rpm (i.e. most of the time I drive like a grandpa). :lol:

[Roonstain]

Yep, these link-bar lifters are the go.....just have to install the pushrods properly - saves you a lot of extra work...:hide:

cheers

:lol: yep, I'll make sure of that! Will probably be installed with the motor out of the car anyway, so changes will be faster - i hope....lol


Would have loved to be able to afford tiebar lifters but they were 4 times the price of the LS7s (from the US) and after just having paid for a once-in-a-lifetime European trip before I end up permanently in a wheelchair and a wedding I couldn't justify the extra expense, especially given my car rarely gets over about 5,800rpm (i.e. most of the time I drive like a grandpa). :lol:

I drive like a grandpa too most of the time :rofl: - but the odd skidpan or wsid day is always good!
And I can't afford the tiebar lifters either.........luckily most of our family doesn't exchange presents....... :lol:







Oh, and I thought I would clear it up if anyone was confused, the pic i posted earlier is of two LS7 lifters (guess which one is fcuked....... :lol:) - and sorry for the iPhail camera quality, haha

[Drewie]

This problen has been around since 2006 when the L76 was 1st introduced into the VZs.
Back then Holden replaced my liffters but put the AFM (DOD they called them back then) lifters back in. wasnt till I replaced the lifter when I put the blower on that I finaly rid myself of the dreaded lifter noise. It has been well documented about the early L76 lifter problems. looks like thay have not really done to much to improve them.
Cheers Ian

I have been thinking of buying a new VE SS, but reading this thread is enough to give me second thoughts, I had enough hassles with the LS1 being rebuilt back in 2003. To buy another new car and have to go through all that crap again is enough for me to maybe think about trying the SV6 or another make. Knowing my luck I will end up with a dud.

[alian]

I have been thinking of buying a new VE SS, but reading this thread is enough to give me second thoughts, I had enough hassles with the LS1 being rebuilt back in 2003. To buy another new car and have to go through all that crap again is enough for me to maybe think about trying the SV6 or another make. Knowing my luck I will end up with a dud.
The L76 is only fitted to AFM fitted Ve, The pre AFM and all the manuals have the L98 fitted so you dont have the dodgy liffters. or you can just do what every one is doing, put a little cam in and rid the motor of the little suckers.
Cheers Ian

[Wonky]

I thought the latest VE engines were L76 (auto) and L77 (manual), not L98? :confused: I believe the L77 has the collapsible lifters etc on 4 cylinders and the AFM valley plate etc, just that (like the VZ L76) AFM is not enabled.

[alian]

I thought the latest VE engines were L76 (auto) and L77 (manual), not L98? :confused: I believe the L77 has the collapsible lifters etc on 4 cylinders and the AFM valley plate etc, just that (like the VZ L76) AFM is not enabled.

Wonky looks like you are right. My Bad, I havnt been keeping up with the latest, Sorry.:bawl: (holding my head in shame).
Cheers Ian

[Wonky]

:lol: :lol:

[afmss]

I wouldnt be worried about the standard lifters if they arnt noisy , ive done 50000klms on mine with a cam , still using afm.lifter preload is very important especially after a cam swap

[Roonstain]

I wouldnt be worried about the standard lifters if they arnt noisy , ive done 50000klms on mine with a cam , still using afm.lifter preload is very important especially after a cam swap
I would worry - i know your is an AFM cam, but I wouldn't trust them

My LS7 lifters were quiet as anything before the noise that prompted me to tear down the motor - you just never know

[afmss]

Looking at those pictures id say your preload was wrong or valve springs incorrect.looks like the lifter has been bouncing , no lifter will survive valve train bounce.

[afmss]

Looking at those pictures id say your preload was wrong or valve springs incorrect.looks like the lifter has been bouncing , no lifter will survive valve train bounce.

[Wonky]

Guess I must have been thinking of something else I saw when looking at different lifter alternatives after my one lifter died because I got them out of the box Chev gave them back to me in and there was no bar as I thought I'd remembered (my red Photochop addition above). :doh: Instead they were like

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS3Lifters005.jpg

The stuffed one was
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS3Lifters006.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS3Lifters007.jpg

Were they the old style LS3 lifters? :confused:

[BLACKVE]

As someone has said before all GM lifters are the same apparently re part No ls1 ls2 ls3 and ls7.

Correct lifter preload etc is critical, don't just throw a set of standard pushrods back in with out checking. I was amazed i had to get 7.325 rods for my L98 after heads were done but rattle free and see's 7000rpm quite a bit, having said that i'd love a set of tie bar lifters for piece of mind


My LS7 lifters were quiet as anything before the noise that prompted me to tear down the motor - you just never know

what happened when you noticed the noise?? High revs was it just one lifter??

[afmss]

The dod liffers are no physically weaker than the standard lI s3 lifters, they are a little heavier 30grams I think , so they wont like the big revs , you need to run a stiffer valve spring to keep valve train under control and stop lifter bounce , mine see 6500 rpm nearly on a daily basis , I know a few guys in the states turning theres to 7000 rpm .

[Roonstain]

what happened when you noticed the noise?? High revs was it just one lifter??

I was coasting down the hill on my street with the windows open when suddenly the noise began - so i got in to the garage (about 5 seconds later) and parked it. Started it for a few seconds in the morning to make sure i wasnt making it up - then i began to take it apart

[Wonky]

As someone has said before all GM lifters are the same apparently re part No ls1 ls2 ls3 and ls7.

I know that now but the lifters I got from a brand new LS3 crate engine (see post #45) are not the same as the LS7 etc lifters I bought recently which had like a circlip type arrangement (see post #24), hence my question as to whether the LS3 ones I bought were the old style lifters. :confused:

[JezzaB]

I know that now but the lifters I got from a brand new LS3 crate engine (see post #45) are not the same as the LS7 etc lifters I bought recently which had like a circlip type arrangement (see post #24), hence my question as to whether the LS3 ones I bought were the old style lifters. :confused:

All the ones i have pulled out of LS2 VE, LS3 Crate, LS3 VE and L98 VE have been the circlip type not like the pictures you posted in post #45. Even on a 2007 VE I did the other week they look like post #24. Weird

[mick_vessv]

as has been said so many times - the lifters are the same and all have the circlip
the circlip is missing in yours hence the lifter is stuffed
was the circlip thing found or is it floating around your engine waiting to rip it up once again

[corsa]

I've just bought a new MY10.5 Red SSV Ute A6, you guys have me worried now!!! lol.... I'm waiting for the dreaded "Tick" now....

Corsa.

[afmss]

I wouldnt be too worried if I were you , notes all the failed lifters in this thread arnt dod

[Wonky]

as has been said so many times - the lifters are the same and all have the circlip
the circlip is missing in yours hence the lifter is stuffed
was the circlip thing found or is it floating around your engine waiting to rip it up once again

If you look closely at my pics in post #45 I believe you will note that there is NO circlip. The end of the lifter is retained by a shaped metal clip which I have done a bodgy Photochop on below.

When Big Rob at Chev's went to replace my cam he discovered a few tiny bits of metal on the magnets they use to hold the pushrods up so pulled the heads off and discovered the bung lifter. At that stage only a few bits of the clip had broken off and I am confident there are no more there. It has done about 2,000km since then with no problem. Very fortunate timing for me to have had the cam replacement done just as the lifter was starting to go and before any major damage was done!! Phew!!

My "LS3" lifters from new crate LS3:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS3Lifters005.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/ls3lifters005b.jpg

Revised LS7 (+ LS1/2/3, L98/76/77) lifter:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/LS7lifter3.jpg

[mick_vessv]

circlip or retaining clip or whatever u want to call it
yours is missing hence why it is crapola

[Wonky]

We seem to be going around in circles here Mick. I know mine was broken (and is now completely gone) but I was wondering if anyone knew what type of lifters they were given they came from a new LS3 crate motor (motor was installed in a fellow forum member's car with tie bar lifters towards the end of 2009). They certainly aren't the current LS7 etc. lifters.

[mick_vessv]

someone said that ls3 ls2 ls7 are all same

[Roonstain]

Dont bother with him gaz - he is obviously not able to comprehend simple statements!

I might hazard a guess that the design was updated to the circlip to lighten it a little and perhaps your fault was a known one? Don't know to be honest mate!

[mick_vessv]

I think you'll find LS2/LS3/LS7 and replacement LS1 lifters from GM are all the same.

12499225
LS-Series camshaft Lifter kit (not shown)
• Set of 16 lifters for LS-Series engines
• Same lifter used in LS2 and LS7 P/N 17122490 (single lifter)

this should suffice

[afmss]

From what ive read, gm used delphi lifters on pre 08 and then changed over to eaton , which is the two types in wonkys pics , the eaton are much better .the standard lifters weight 130 grams and the dod lifters weigh153grams , get the preload right and the rocker geometry correct and all should be fine .

[Wonky]

this should suffice

Think you're missing the point..............

[Wonky]

From what ive read, gm used delphi lifters on pre 08 and then changed over to eaton , which is the two types in wonkys pics.

Ah, OK thanks. :goodjob:

[Roonstain]

From what ive read, gm used delphi lifters on pre 08 and then changed over to eaton , which is the two types in wonkys pics , the eaton are much better .the standard lifters weight 130 grams and the dod lifters weigh153grams , get the preload right and the rocker geometry correct and all should be fine .
There is a better answer!

Thing is I still do not like the whole plastic bucket system - so the tiebars on my new pbm's make me feel better!

Have to say though, I have heard about lots of noise from AFM/DOD lifters, but not as many failures as other lifter types - weird

[OldDog]

Had an odd thing happen this morning actually, the bloody battery in the car went flat (no idea why) Holden Roadside assist sent an NRMA guy who jump started the car, he stood beside it once it was running to check a few things and made the comment "i see your afm is rattling too" ??? So even NRMA is aware of this problem?
To be honest though, not sure where you guys are leading with all this lifter discussion, i must be thick or somthin so i'll go back over your comments in the morning.

Cheers
OD

[boggers007]

i had the first batch of VE's (built jan 09) with the AFM and i put close to 30,000 clicks on the car before i sold it and i never had a problem or a loud rattling or anything with it and it had all the usual bolt on mods and everything since about 3,000ks so i dunno if i had it longer if it would become a problem or not but didnt seem to affect my engine.

[Wonky]

Mine never was either when I had AFM removed and cam installed at around 22,000km (from memory). It's only since that I struck the problem with one of the non AFM lifters I got. :bawl:

[loudvtss]

It seems after 230,000km one of the lifters in the L76 has decided to become noisy. Got a quote for about $2K from the Holden leader to replace the lifters and some other internal parts. Had another estimate for $1500.00 to also replace the lifters. I did some reading and people recommended it's a good time to replace the camshaft. My question is how much extra $$$ are we talking about to replace the cam? Does the cost depend on the cam and if this needs other things to replace?

Thanks

[dgp]

It seems after 230,000km one of the lifters in the L76 has decided to become noisy. Got a quote for about $2K from the Holden leader to replace the lifters and some other internal parts. Had another estimate for $1500.00 to also replace the lifters. I did some reading and people recommended it's a good time to replace the camshaft. My question is how much extra $$$ are we talking about to replace the cam? Does the cost depend on the cam and if this needs other things to replace?

Thanks

Get on the dog and bone to a few performance shops and ask about a cam upgrade including lifters and springs. You will also need a tune (another 1k) but the car will perform better and you will have peace of mind.
Depending on your location, VCM in Knoxfield, GMM in Melton, HPF in Dandenong, just to name a few.

[Micks]

It seems after 230,000km one of the lifters in the L76 has decided to become noisy. Got a quote for about $2K from the Holden leader to replace the lifters and some other internal parts. Had another estimate for $1500.00 to also replace the lifters. I did some reading and people recommended it's a good time to replace the camshaft. My question is how much extra $$$ are we talking about to replace the cam? Does the cost depend on the cam and if this needs other things to replace?

Thanks

My advice & had same done approx. 4 yrs ago, buy a DOD delete kit about $1K have a decent mob install & slip in a delivery Km's LS3 cam which should cost next to nothing, with a reasonable tune should net you approx 50-60 rwkw increase. My original stockish L76 was 220 B4 & 278rwkw following same & still going strong.

[BLACK 346]

Similar here, VCM21 Cam kit from VCM, decked heads whilst off, for 294ish rwkw through the A6. Happy days.

[Hos]

Nice avatar pic MickS

[Micks]

Nice avatar pic MickS

I like big butts & I cannot lie! :lmao:

[loudvtss]

My advice & had same done approx. 4 yrs ago, buy a DOD delete kit about $1K have a decent mob install & slip in a delivery Km's LS3 cam which should cost next to nothing, with a reasonable tune should net you approx 50-60 rwkw increase. My original stockish L76 was 220 B4 & 278rwkw following same & still going strong.
What's the benefit of using a LS3 cam over a different type of CAM like the ones offered by GMM in Melton.

[Micks]

In my case the orig L76 cam was almost shagged & needed to do the DOD delete so it was a no brainer to use a free LS3 cam for a considerable result. But yes there's a myriad of aftermarket cams to choose from.

[Hos]

I like big butts & I cannot lie! :lmao:

Is it your Mrs? :goodjob: if it is!

[Smashfist]

What's the benefit of using a LS3 cam over a different type of CAM like the ones offered by GMM in Melton.

An LS3 cam will cost next to nothing and still offer a performance gain over the stock AFM cam. You can also leave a stock valvetrain in place (springs, pushrods) making the whole process considerably cheaper.

Personally I went a VCM 714 cam with dual springs, LS7 lifters and an AFM delete in my L77. Made a healthy 440rwhp/330rwkw through a 6 speed with a slight head tickle. Didn't want to stuff around figuring out pushrod length and I was on a timeframe so just had all the casting cleaned up in the intake/exhaust runners.

[Micks]

An LS3 cam will cost next to nothing and still offer a performance gain over the stock AFM cam. You can also leave a stock valvetrain in place (springs, pushrods) making the whole process considerably cheaper.

Personally I went a VCM 714 cam with dual springs, LS7 lifters and an AFM delete in my L77. Made a healthy 440rwhp/330rwkw through a 6 speed with a slight head tickle. Didn't want to stuff around figuring out pushrod length and I was on a timeframe so just had all the casting cleaned up in the intake/exhaust runners.
Very nice increase with that 714 cam :goodjob:

[Smashfist]

Very nice increase with that 714 cam :goodjob:

It's really nice to drive too, it's similar to the old VCM7 (232/234 with just over .600 lift) but on a 114 LSA so I can add boost later. The 114LSA gives it nicer manners too. I had it tuned by Tekno (well the guy they sublet their tunes to) and they did a fantastic job, no hunting on cold starts, minimal surging, good fuel economy if I'm not up it. Great all round package.

[Micks]

It's really nice to drive too, it's similar to the old VCM7 (232/234 with just over .600 lift) but on a 114 LSA so I can add boost later. The 114LSA gives it nicer manners too. I had it tuned by Tekno (well the guy they sublet their tunes to) and they did a fantastic job, no hunting on cold starts, minimal surging, good fuel economy if I'm not up it. Great all round package.

Will keep that stick in mind when my LS3 gets a few more K's on it for an upgrade ;)

[loudvtss]

An LS3 cam will cost next to nothing and still offer a performance gain over the stock AFM cam. You can also leave a stock valvetrain in place (springs, pushrods) making the whole process considerably cheaper.

Personally I went a VCM 714 cam with dual springs, LS7 lifters and an AFM delete in my L77. Made a healthy 440rwhp/330rwkw through a 6 speed with a slight head tickle. Didn't want to stuff around figuring out pushrod length and I was on a timeframe so just had all the casting cleaned up in the intake/exhaust runners.

Thanks. I was hoping I could just get the lifters done plus change the cam without changing other hardware. I've found a few on Ebay.

[loudvtss]

Is it mandatory to change the cam if you install a DOD delete kit? The reason I ask is that I've installed the delete kit without changing the cam and now the car is running rough. Feels like its not running on all 8 cylinders. Just thinking that the L76 cam is designed for DOD lifters? The workshop is going to install a different cam to see if it fixes it.

Sorry not that mechanically minded.

[Micks]

Yes if you replace the lifters to the usual LS7 style so you have 16 identical lifters you cannot use an L76 cam because the lobes are cut different on the DOD cylinders.
Recomend an L98 or LS3 as a replacement for that motor.

[gmh308]

Is it mandatory to change the cam if you install a DOD delete kit? The reason I ask is that I've installed the delete kit without changing the cam and now the car is running rough. Feels like its not running on all 8 cylinders. Just thinking that the L76 cam is designed for DOD lifters? The workshop is going to install a different cam to see if it fixes it.

Sorry not that mechanically minded.

Have been running a DOD cam in a non DOD engine for some years now - smooth as. If you want to double check - given how much swapping cams in and out will cost you (though a better cam is always tempting ;) ) - check the part numbers at a Holden dealer. While the DOD lifters are heavier - they operate the same as the non DOD so there is no reason to change the grind/lobe/ramp designs. Also make it more complicated in manufacturing and tracking.

[Micks]

Have been running a DOD cam in a non DOD engine for some years now - smooth as. If you want to double check - given how much swapping cams in and out will cost you (though a better cam is always tempting ;) ) - check the part numbers at a Holden dealer. While the DOD lifters are heavier - they operate the same as the non DOD so there is no reason to change the grind/lobe/ramp designs. Also make it more complicated in manufacturing and tracking.
Are you certain you retained an L76 cam?...

intake lobes will be significantly smaller than the exhaust due to the AFM lifters being longer

While not impossible, so long as the installer used longer pushods on the AFM cylinder lobes perhaps ;)