cam ideas LS3

[ebbett21]

Have got the funds already to go 4.5 g for cam upgrade. Going into a LS3 crate in my VT

Im pulling my hair out deciding which cam specs to go with as my workshop have left the deciding to me, they havent cammed a LS3 yet. I get the cam and theyre install/tune
Im after torque area under the curve thats useable on the street with a lumpy idle. The car isnt a daily driven car a weekender bit of driving around town and long trips, hilly
Whats opinions on these ones
231/236 .641"/.615 112
Street Racer Cam GM Motorsport
custom crow cam 219/224 560 114
crow 227/231 585 585 112
227/227 595 112

, bit scared of going too big as mite loose too much down low.dunno some help be appreciated

[boggers007]

Is this for an auto or manual?

[255-LS1]

GMM had a guarantee a while back for 350 rwkw form the street race cam in an Ls3 with full Df system and OTR.

[ebbett21]

Is this for an auto or manual?

manual, 6 spd 3:9.1 gear ratio, 4>1 headers, 3'' DF Cats, twin 3'' DF, carbon fibre ORCAI

[5.7ute]

I have a 231/247 on 113lsa in mine. Lift is .617 .624.
This gives a nice but lumpy idle & good street manners though it may have lost some torque down low. (engine was cammed before install so I do not know what it was like stock)
This is also in an m6.

[boggers007]

from what i have been told numerous times is that the L98 and LS3 like more seperation and people well from my experience go big. A good cam i have seen pull some decent results is the COME 231/240 with 600 lift on both ex and in

[SirNemesis]

Big splits go well in the LS3's. Cams with around 12 degrees split are getting good results.

[GenReaper]

LS3 motors require a pretty hefty cam to breath propperly.

i run a 237 242 in mine, drives great, stacks of torque, a little surgey at lower rpm coasting if going slow in lower gears.

I would recomend a largish cam for the extra torque.
Flow is good around 600" on the inlet and 610" on the exhaust.

Some thing in the low to mid 230's would be pretty good.
Dont worry about losing low down torque cause they have stacks anyway.

Make sure you got a 92mm throttle body and a good exhaust system to make the most out of it.

Get the cam dialed in propperly too.
Underdrive balancer is a good addition too.

[ebbett21]

from what i have been told numerous times is that the L98 and LS3 like more seperation and people well from my experience go big. A good cam i have seen pull some decent results is the COME 231/240 with 600 lift on both ex and in

Not sure if id gain much other than peak HP if went a big cam over 230 duration, a smaller cam properly net more useable torque on the street
ohh so confusing

[GenReaper]

If your not going to rev it hard then go small but if you go small and want to give it a rev you will wish you went bigger to start with cause a small cam will nose over very fast in a big engine.

Big cams make power everywhere.
I can torque my car around with SFA revs anyway and it pulls like a train.
When i rev it, it puts a smile on my dial too.

[ebbett21]

If your not going to rev it hard then go small but if you go small and want to give it a rev you will wish you went bigger to start with cause a small cam will nose over very fast in a big engine.

Big cams make power everywhere.
I can torque my car around with SFA revs anyway and it pulls like a train.
When i rev it, it puts a smile on my dial too.

good points i didnt look at it that way :)

[boggers007]

best bet would be talking to your tuner as they would have hopefully done a heap and would be able to point you in the right direction

[ebbett21]

best bet would be talking to your tuner as they would have hopefully done a heap and would be able to point you in the right direction

Yea ive spoken to them and they reakon the 231/236 112 , theyve cammed LS2, LS1 but not LS3 so mines the first.
The nearest workshop other than theres is 5 1/2 hour drive away

[boggers007]

lol geez thats abit of a trek

[ebbett21]

lol geez thats abit of a trek

Yea the 5 1/2 hour away workshop just finnished a cam upgrade on a LS3, big headers, air intake , tune 227/227 595 112 cam and made 349 rwkw

[boggers007]

Yea the 5 1/2 hour away workshop just finnished a cam upgrade on a LS3, big headers, air intake , tune 227/227 595 112 cam and made 349 rwkw

geez thats alright, tho i have seen a L98 with a full exhaust, otr and 232/234 pull basically the same number

[ebbett21]

geez thats alright, tho i have seen a L98 with a full exhaust, otr and 232/234 pull basically the same number

the extra 200 cc gives the LS3 a slight edge even though the same dyno numbers maybe:spew:

[BLACKVE]

The camtec 233/233 gets some great reviews in L98's 350rwkw's, yep no split but seems to work.

[vassis]

I recently put a L98 in a manual vx in stock form then cammed it after 1500km or so there was a big difference.. I put a 232 234 comp cam with PSI springs. In stock form there so smooth and power from 1000rpm but started dropping off hard after 4500 (standard gears is fine). It was very likable spin the wheels by sqeezing the trigger :) although was missing some power up top . With my cam/springs and a "guessed" tune it lost all the down low it used to have and ran rough as guts...

Now runs still a bit jerky cause it just wants to be fed like a starving lion but torque everywhere anyways after a good tune but its as u said more curved and stronger up top meaning standard gears was no good anymore and the drivabilty becomes a bit shit especialy with manual. You have to make alot more noise and RPM to get the desired power and usualy becomes more obvious to other drivers and police if u where to have a little play on the street.

Dont go too big with manual IMO if u do make sure u gear it really low to slightly compensate. Even 3.9s may still be a bit tall depending on how big cam spec u go. Even so changing gears is a pain with these things when ur revving over the normal shift points of one in standard form because the boxes start to gain issues being stressed more at higher rpm.

Clutch problems start arising at this point and it becomes a bigger job than what u thought initialy.

Being a 6.2litre though a cam similar to what ive used, wont be as agressive as if it was used in a 5.7 litre like it was originaly itended.

I use my car as a daily driver and in the end i had my regrets not putting a small blower on instead which IMO is probably your best/cheaper option. Might need to upgrade a few things like fuel sytem etc but u can get a more sleeper type setup that will blow the doors off a cammed car any day of the week. Dont start me on idling issues etc that arise im yet to figure it out and ive done 15,000 kms on my engine and still fixing things

My car made 395RWHP and 370 ft lb's of torque in 4th (standard gearing and wheels/tires) using 1 5/8 tri-ys opened up standard cats and a custom duel 3" system (which is a huge restriction for this setup) You can make alot more usable power with a small blower setup

This was simply my experience that ive tryed to share with you to maybe understand the good and the bad of big cammed engines especialy with conversion jobs but in the end....theres no better sound than and off tap cammed LSX.. and it is your car..

Good luck, Chris

[ebbett21]

I recently put a L98 in a manual vx in stock form then cammed it after 1500km or so there was a big difference.. I put a 232 234 comp cam with PSI springs. In stock form there so smooth and power from 1000rpm but started dropping off hard after 4500 (standard gears is fine). It was very likable spin the wheels by sqeezing the trigger :) although was missing some power up top . With my cam/springs and a "guessed" tune it lost all the down low it used to have and ran rough as guts...

Now runs still a bit jerky cause it just wants to be fed like a starving lion but torque everywhere anyways after a good tune but its as u said more curved and stronger up top meaning standard gears was no good anymore and the drivabilty becomes a bit shit especialy with manual. You have to make alot more noise and RPM to get the desired power and usualy becomes more obvious to other drivers and police if u where to have a little play on the street.

Dont go too big with manual IMO if u do make sure u gear it really low to slightly compensate. Even 3.9s may still be a bit tall depending on how big cam spec u go. Even so changing gears is a pain with these things when ur revving over the normal shift points of one in standard form because the boxes start to gain issues being stressed more at higher rpm.

Clutch problems start arising at this point and it becomes a bigger job than what u thought initialy.

Being a 6.2litre though a cam similar to what ive used, wont be as agressive as if it was used in a 5.7 litre like it was originaly itended.

I use my car as a daily driver and in the end i had my regrets not putting a small blower on instead which IMO is probably your best/cheaper option. Might need to upgrade a few things like fuel sytem etc but u can get a more sleeper type setup that will blow the doors off a cammed car any day of the week. Dont start me on idling issues etc that arise im yet to figure it out and ive done 15,000 kms on my engine and still fixing things

My car made 395RWHP and 370 ft lb's of torque in 4th (standard gearing and wheels/tires) using 1 5/8 tri-ys opened up standard cats and a custom duel 3" system (which is a huge restriction for this setup) You can make alot more usable power with a small blower setup

This was simply my experience that ive tryed to share with you to maybe understand the good and the bad of big cammed engines especialy with conversion jobs but in the end....theres no better sound than and off tap cammed LSX.. and it is your car..

Good luck, Chris

Hey Chris,,
Thanks for the info sounds like you havent had much joy with your cam, maybe its too big for your desire. I do hear what your saying as be nothing worse than loosing all bottom end and having a high revving car. Im surprised as you have try y headers and thought that mite give you the torque down low.\
A blower would be awesome but my missus would shoot me if id spent anymore than 4.5 g on mods
cheers

[macca_779]

I have a 231/247 on 113lsa in mine. Lift is .617 .624.
This gives a nice but lumpy idle & good street manners though it may have lost some torque down low. (engine was cammed before install so I do not know what it was like stock)
This is also in an m6.

A very good choice mate. :goodjob:

[vassis]

Yeah dont get me wrong its great power its just more effort cause cams cause alot of problems as i learnt. Especialy if u have 2nd grade mods like i have. The headers on my car where on it on the original engine i ran out of money due to this cam job. It will cost me like 4 grand or so for a proper exaust and my tuner said i should be pumping atleast 430RWHP without any other mods.

You have got the mods i need to make my setup work properly so it might be a good setup for you.

Alot did post replies too while i made my big write up but yeat the bigger the engine is the bigger cam spec u need to achieve that power band that you want.. My cam is a 112 LSA which is the lumpyness at or near adle the lift they say no more than 600" if its for the street durations is what gearing you wanna run to keep the maximum power to the wheels. Naturaly the lift does go up to match the durations but just make sure u get a known cam that fits without doign too much more like flycutting pistons etc.

My car made 360+ ft lbs of torque at the wheels from 3800-5600 so you can see its a good cam for this engine.

Another anoyance is make sure u get some matching rockers without gaining too muich lift to hit cause it does get a bit noisy with the standard rocker arms.. Dunno if the L98 is similar or the same as the ls3 ones.

Chris

[ebbett21]

Yeah dont get me wrong its great power its just more effort cause cams cause alot of problems as i learnt. Especialy if u have 2nd grade mods like i have. The headers on my car where on it on the original engine i ran out of money due to this cam job. It will cost me like 4 grand or so for a proper exaust and my tuner said i should be pumping atleast 430RWHP without any other mods.

You have got the mods i need to make my setup work properly so it might be a good setup for you.

Alot did post replies too while i made my big write up but yeat the bigger the engine is the bigger cam spec u need to achieve that power band that you want.. My cam is a 112 LSA which is the lumpyness at or near adle the lift they say no more than 600" if its for the street durations is what gearing you wanna run to keep the maximum power to the wheels. Naturaly the lift does go up to match the durations but just make sure u get a known cam that fits without doign too much more like flycutting pistons etc.

My car made 360+ ft lbs of torque at the wheels from 3800-5600 so you can see its a good cam for this engine.

Another anoyance is make sure u get some matching rockers without gaining too muich lift to hit cause it does get a bit noisy with the standard rocker arms.. Dunno if the L98 is similar or the same as the ls3 ones.

Chris

I think a 231/236 is biggest you can run in a LS3 without PTV Clearance issues ? a 232/234 should be fine. I havent heard alot of people running the 232/234 in a L98 correct me if im wrong. I think a cam change does and can open a can of worms if not done properly. A few suggestions is changing the lifters when running a big cam on a LS3 as there supposedly been reported failures, i really cant see past a mild cam setup for street duties at the moment.

[vassis]

What lift and LSA is that 231/236 cam? mine was a comp cams cam

[duke5700]

I have a 231/247 on 113lsa in mine. Lift is .617 .624.
This gives a nice but lumpy idle & good street manners though it may have lost some torque down low. (engine was cammed before install so I do not know what it was like stock)
This is also in an m6.


A very good choice mate. :goodjob:

I agree with the above, split does these engines nicely. I correctly selected cam that is a little smaller will stive give outstanding results in an LS3. You could talk to Nick@NJC in regards to this.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

well i lost torque under 2000 rpm with a 224/228 x114 -585@50 over the stock cam
over that it came on strong
with the blower you dont notice the loss:)

[macca_779]

I agree with the above, split does these engines nicely. I correctly selected cam that is a little smaller will stive give outstanding results in an LS3. You could talk to Nick@NJC in regards to this.

Nick and I have discussed the application of wide split cams on engines with L92 Heads in depth. We both agree this is the way to go for many reasons.
There are others that persevere with the 241 Head based mentality and using narrow splits or single patterns.. Give it time, they will see the light.

[vassis]

macca that is because they gimped the exaust port to make the intake larger correct?

[1BEAST2NV]

My car has the 227/231 .585 .585 112LSA

In my LS3 M6 it made 475rwhp (351.4rwkw) 776nm of torque, has pacemaker 4-1's, 200cell highflow cats, twin 3" manta system and VCM OTR

nice street manners, in the seat from go to wo, power from 2200-6500, nice lump at idle, gets 13l/100k's on long runs...
great low down,

I personally dont care about top end, I wanted take off to mid speed :)

[vassis]

Well said 1BEAST2NV bigger isnt always better

Sounds like a good setup :goodjob:

[ebbett21]

that 227 /231 crow cam looks sweet , crow recommended that one and also for all out torque down low to mid range said there custom grind 219/224 114 ? is a ripper they did that in a LS3 got 310 rwkw but torque down low rite thru rev range is outstanding

[VYSHSV8]

I have a 231/247 on 113lsa in mine. Lift is .617 .624.
This gives a nice but lumpy idle & good street manners though it may have lost some torque down low. (engine was cammed before install so I do not know what it was like stock)
This is also in an m6.

Will let. Know soon how my L98 goes with a similar cam 227/239 around the same lift

[vassis]

Damn 1BEAST2NV i cant get over your numbers i really need to pull my finger out and get me a decent exaust. Im looking at 1 7/8 big boy extractors from difilipo which are 3" outlet not 3.5 like the 17/8 pacies are

Do you have the 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 extractors 1BEAST2NV?

Chris

[GenReaper]

Damn 1BEAST2NV i cant get over your numbers i really need to pull my finger out and get me a decent exaust. Im looking at 1 7/8 big boy extractors from difilipo which are 3" outlet not 3.5 like the 17/8 pacies are

Do you have the 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 extractors 1BEAST2NV?

Chris

LoL, im running 1 5/8 tri y and making more torque and earlier than the guys running 1 3/4 4 into 1's. Thats with a 2.5 inch outlet.

Dont be fooled by the hype.

Its going back on the dyno next week with a bigger 92mm TB as im only running a stock LS1 TB "75mm vs 92" body atm, ill post up results next week and they can see for themselfs.

The LS3 has a pretty small exhaust valve so why such big pipes?
Its duration and lift on the exhaust that seems to make them work better.

Its already making 780nm with the 75mm TB, and that should improve with a 92mm setup.

[ebbett21]

LoL, im running 1 5/8 tri y and making more torque and earlier than the guys running 1 3/4 4 into 1's. Thats with a 2.5 inch outlet.

Dont be fooled by the hype.

Its going back on the dyno next week with a bigger 92mm TB as im only running a stock LS1 TB "75mm vs 92" body atm, ill post up results next week and they can see for themselfs.

The LS3 has a pretty small exhaust valve so why such big pipes?
Its duration and lift on the exhaust that seems to make them work better.

i would have to agree on that one, ive noticed with 4>1 3/4 headers the car only really gets moving 3000 rpm which top end all good, but down low shes alittle sluggish

[vassis]

LoL, im running 1 5/8 tri y and making more torque and earlier than the guys running 1 3/4 4 into 1's. Thats with a 2.5 inch outlet.

Dont be fooled by the hype.

Its going back on the dyno next week with a bigger 92mm TB as im only running a stock LS1 TB "75mm vs 92" body atm, ill post up results next week and they can see for themselfs.

The LS3 has a pretty small exhaust valve so why such big pipes?
Its duration and lift on the exhaust that seems to make them work better.

Its already making 780nm with the 75mm TB, and that should improve with a 92mm setup.

How much torque did u make and what diff ratios/tire sizes? and at what revs im curious on how bad my setup is with a big cam and a low down exaust setup

[ebbett21]

i seen a silver ss ute 650 HP , Blower, running H@M try ys and a twin 2.5'' system.

[GenReaper]

How much torque did u make and what diff ratios/tire sizes? and at what revs im curious on how bad my setup is with a big cam and a low down exaust setup

BBOSS Madison 19 inch, 245/35/19 heavy as crap, heaps of mass.

Diff 3.73 with T56 VZ box.

Made 780nm at 5000RPM.

Bear in mind this was setup with an LS1 TB with an adaptor plate and a fat tune with not much ignition timing as the motor was brand new out of the crate.

Next week ill find out what it realy does with the 92mm and when its tuned on song.

Im hoping to see over 800nm with the new TB and Walbro pump and sweeter tune.

even with the 75mm TB its got on it now its still close to 700nm at 3500rpm.

[vassis]

Hehe blown.... nothing after the exhaust port matters

Easy

[vassis]

do u have like a table graph of it i can put in mine so u can see

Mine was with standard VX box, diff and tires so the numbers are alot lower due to torque being multiplied by engine to tire ratio

[GenReaper]

do u have like a table graph of it i can put in mine so u can see

Mine was with standard VX box, diff and tires so the numbers are alot lower due to torque being multiplied by engine to tire ratio

Sure, just bear in mind what i said, 75mm TB and Fat tune with SFA ignition timing. So that nasty hole you see will be gone and Mid to peak HP and Torque will be much higher.

Notice this is also a Mainline dyno not a rigged DD dyno :D

http://www.users.on.net/~danzig/Dyno.JPG

[ebbett21]

Sure, just bear in mind what i said, 75mm TB and Fat tune with SFA ignition timing. So that nasty hole you see will be gone and Mid to peak HP and Torque will be much higher.

Notice this is also a Mainline dyno not a rigged DD dyno :D

http://www.users.on.net/~danzig/Dyno.JPG

so yours is a LS3 Engine install, thats good result, what rpm does the try ys kick in? your cam works well

[GenReaper]

Hehe blown.... nothing after the exhaust port matters

Easy

Exactly, and engine is an air pump, all you do is drag HP by pushing the exhaust gasses out a smaller hole thats why druation and lift are more important than pipe size cause the flow is restricted by seat and valve size not exhaust primary sizes.

[GenReaper]

so yours is a LS3 Engine install, thats good result, what rpm does the try ys kick in? your cam works well

Mate you can drive it around and 3500rpm all day and it still pulls like a train.

[vassis]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn303/cvpriest/DynoRun.jpg

This was my readout although it did make more he took out a tad of timing for a little amount of powerloss because the fuel system is a bit dirty and the exhaust is restrictive with the standard cats still

[vassis]

as u can see it spun the dyno up to 129.5 mph @6300rpm so my gearing is quite tall

[1BEAST2NV]

Damn 1BEAST2NV i cant get over your numbers i really need to pull my finger out and get me a decent exaust. Im looking at 1 7/8 big boy extractors from difilipo which are 3" outlet not 3.5 like the 17/8 pacies are

Do you have the 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 extractors 1BEAST2NV?

Chris

I think they are pacemaker 1-3/4.....4-1's but not 100% unless I go have a look at receipt.

Here's the before and after :) ( standard VE clubsport rims, 275/35/19's, standard 3.7 ratio, LS7 clutch replacement)

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w211/1BEAST2NV/d072109d.jpg



Next on my list is some CNC'd heads :D ,all in due time :goodjob:

[vassis]

Nice im guessing thats stock to cammed tuned and exhaust as the difference between the two graphs?

1 3/4 ones have a 2.5" outlet
1 7/8 ones have a 3.5" outlet

^^ had this problem i wanted to stick to a duel 3" system and hate reducers or major changes in size of exhausts it can disrupt airflow to a small degree

Good results anyways u can see a gain everywhere in every way and seems to continue to make power instead of dropping off

Did you notice how as soon as my car starts to make some power it falls off a cliff. Thats what a 2nd grade exhaust does to a good engine peoples

[255-LS1]

the diflippo 1 7/8s are still 3" outlet.

[2ajmanvell82]

Great thread and info guys, I am in the process of sale of my supercharged Maloo and looking at new clubsport and 6.2ltr with exh, cai, cam n/a this time initially. Mine will have to be an auto though as I drive with hand controls so obviously cam size will be much smaller than alot are running as I don't want to stall this car or if do it will be a small stall.

It's unreal the numbers these LS3's and L98's are achieving with decent cams in them, especially guys with manuals, would be unreal to have 350+rwkw with cam only, and love seeing how many people are getting it, to see how possible it is!

In regards to exhausts and headers, I think as far as header size goes, 1 3/4 headers would be good up untill your pushing big numbers (mid 300's +??) as I am running 1 3/4 4into1's to dual 3" on my HTV1900 supercharged VE Maloo (LS2) with VCM OTR to suit s/c, running 11psi and 233/233 .598/.597 114 cam making 410rwkw out of 3000rpm stalled auto, doesn't seem to be a restriction and sounds awesome. but am definately at a power range where 1 7/8 would make a good difference.

But with the LS3 i'm looking to probably do the 1 7/8 so that it is definately all good for future possibilities of more mods. Wat brand etc i'm not sure what to run?? Will also run another VCM OTR.

I looking into cams for my auto have heard of a 217/225 .600/.578 113 in the pipeline that is meant for std stalls and I think this would be a nice low-mid monster which is where you want the power, especially after having the torque of the harrop s/c. Is there anyone out there running these sorts of auto cams?

[vassis]

the diflippo 1 7/8s are still 3" outlet.

Thats what i want a 3" outlet that will suit a 3" exhaust

[vassis]

2ajmanvell82 blown engines dont require the correct exhaust to operate properly as it barely makes any difference due to force fed where a NA engine requires the correct backpressure to suit the camshaft and engine in general to achieve the correct vaccuum that camshaft is designed to create.

Both my engine builder who builds race engines only pretty much aswell as the notes on defilipo's catalogue that the kind lady at the shop on the gold coast recommended that if camming was or is on the cards that the 1 7/8 is recommended.

It doesnt mean u have to but all my recommendations has pointed to the 1 7/8 for that size cam.

You only have to see my engines power drop dramaticaly from 5500 RPM in both HP and TQ on the bottom of page 3 of this thread to see the engine wants more than what its flowing atm. Some people are spinning 5.7litres upto 7000 RPM with this cam and im changing gears at 6. Theres no way 300cc of capacity is going to take that mich of my rev range alone.

My car made the same HP @ 10.5 A/F ratio than it did at 12.5 , even at a higher RPM @10.5 so you can see its reached it capacity on airflow due to the 1 5/8 tri-ys/ standard cats.

In the end blown engines are less fussy on this issue and shouldnt really be compared to cammed engines in any way.

Has anyone ran a similar setup to mine with a 1 5/8 tri-y system with standardish cats and a cheap exhaust and seen a greater result from using a better suited system? Im interested in seeing what my car can achieve with a good exhaust system

[VYSHSV8]

Hey Chris dont you think it might just be the cam falling over and not the exhaust:):):)

[vassis]

The graph doesnt look normal when it drops at 5500 RPM like similar setups

I may be wrong but it feels wrong when i drive it

[VYSHSV8]

Actually Chris that readout/dyno looks all over the place :(

By advancing or retarding the cam by a degree when dialling in can make the cam produce power earlier in teh RPM range or later in the RPM range

[ebbett21]

maybe take the vx to another tuner for a look at the tune. The cam you have should work to the limiter its near a race cam. Like u say the try ys mite be choking power top end.

[vassis]

Yeah it responds normal until the cam kicks in then power drops when its in the zone... feels like too short of power band for that sorta cam

The car feels too jerky and torqy down low and short of breath up top

4 > 1 s will definatly deaden the bottom end to a more drivable power but im not too sure how much higher it will wanna rev to

I have revved this engine to 6800 while spinning 1st gear before the dyno tune and the low rev limiter was set

Engine builder before the cam was put in said u need to change the headers and after aswell as the tuner said he abnormaly had to modify the top end from his base tune he puts in cammed engines and also said the same thing about the tri-ys

He put the cam in @ 0degrees since the advancment is already ground into that cam

[smokey777]

2ajmanvell82 blown engines dont require the correct exhaust to operate properly as it barely makes any difference due to force fed where a NA engine requires the correct backpressure to suit the camshaft and engine in general to achieve the correct vaccuum that camshaft is designed to create.

Both my engine builder who builds race engines only pretty much aswell as the notes on defilipo's catalogue that the kind lady at the shop on the gold coast recommended that if camming was or is on the cards that the 1 7/8 is recommended.

It doesnt mean u have to but all my recommendations has pointed to the 1 7/8 for that size cam.

You only have to see my engines power drop dramaticaly from 5500 RPM in both HP and TQ on the bottom of page 3 of this thread to see the engine wants more than what its flowing atm. Some people are spinning 5.7litres upto 7000 RPM with this cam and im changing gears at 6. Theres no way 300cc of capacity is going to take that mich of my rev range alone.

My car made the same HP @ 10.5 A/F ratio than it did at 12.5 , even at a higher RPM @10.5 so you can see its reached it capacity on airflow due to the 1 5/8 tri-ys/ standard cats.

In the end blown engines are less fussy on this issue and shouldnt really be compared to cammed engines in any way.

Has anyone ran a similar setup to mine with a 1 5/8 tri-y system with standardish cats and a cheap exhaust and seen a greater result from using a better suited system? Im interested in seeing what my car can achieve with a good exhaust system

i have short pacie tri-ys (not sure on size? bought secondhand), cats & 2.5" x-force catback & otr my cam is 224x224 it makes 400rwhp & 670nm feels great to drive in my VE ute

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo257/smokeybigpond/26102009089-Copy.jpg

[vassis]

Forgot to ad it was an american type dyno alot of the readouts peopel on here see are usualy mainline etc where the readouts may be smoothened and read diferently

[vassis]

Smokey was they standard cats etc?

My exhaust isnt even mandrel bent was a cheapy for my old LS1 but ran outta money on the conversion

More to come once i sell a few bits from my old torana project

At the moment its still in its early stages and im learnign alot but i didnt think i was going to go this far with it from the start which was my main problem

[smokey777]

nah aftermarket vassis but to be honest theyd only be 2.5" and not 100 or 200 cpi id say they chucked em on with the pacies they arnt standard but i dont know what they are. with these pacies the cats virtually sit at the same position as originals. and the cam aint no monster lol has 612 lift though

[ebbett21]

anyone gone GM Motorsports SR cam in a LS3 and whats the performance like?

[vassis]

Sorry ebbett21 im steering this topic off the subject a bit mate

Best thing to do is try to get a cam package if anything rather than getting someone to do this and someone to do that

The place thats working on your car do they dyno tune ebbett21

[ebbett21]

Sorry ebbett21 im steering this topic off the subject a bit mate

Best thing to do is try to get a cam package if anything rather than getting someone to do this and someone to do that

The place thats working on your car do they dyno tune ebbett21

yep the dyno tune with good results. But they have not cammed a LS3 yet, just good to hear different opinions on different size cams

[VYSHSV8]

Forgot to ad it was an american type dyno alot of the readouts peopel on here see are usualy mainline etc where the readouts may be smoothened and read diferently
If thats the case US dyno's normally read about 20hp higher than ours do as well:)

So there is definatelly something wrong there

[vassis]

Yeah true that im trying to find out answers myself but getting sidetracked alot by people who dont really understand my situation with the problems im having

In the end mate you have a decent setup with the gears already id go the biggest mofo you can fit cause your car has the goodies any cam wants to run with so until someone on here has the exact answer you feel good with go with what the majority say.. afterall this forum is here for people to have there say on what they have experienced etc and thats what cars is all about you never know till you try it

Just really comes down to weather your mechanic/tuner can produce that result with your car

[ebbett21]

Yeah true that im trying to find out answers myself but getting sidetracked alot by people who dont really understand my situation with the problems im having

In the end mate you have a decent setup with the gears already id go the biggest mofo you can fit cause your car has the goodies any cam wants to run with so until someone on here has the exact answer you feel good with go with what the majority say.. afterall this forum is here for people to have there say on what they have experienced etc and thats what cars is all about you never know till you try it

Just really comes down to weather your mechanic/tuner can produce that result with your car

yea i hear what your saying. Forum is all purely opinion and at times can sidetrack or give people wrong info i do no it also great learning tool as well. I would never had thought of a engine conversion or whats involved if it wasnt for the forum

[vassis]

So what u leaning towards so far, out of curiosity

I can talk cars all day :)

[HRT 8]

So what u leaning towards so far, out of curiosity

I can talk cars all day :)
So how would you explain HPF's results from the recent exhaust testing on a stock LS3?. The large primaries of the 17/8 headers tested lost nothing anywhere to the smaller 13/4. In fact they gained everywhere as did the larger twin 3" cutback????? Where does that sit with the backpressure theory your mate told you?

What is interesting to me in the replies to this thread is absolutely none have come from a workshop who perform cam upgrades.

Take a read thru the info the yanks are producing. Check the numbers and then see how relevant most of the info in this thread is???

[ebbett21]

So how would you explain HPF's results from the recent exhaust testing on a stock LS3?. The large primaries of the 17/8 headers tested lost nothing anywhere to the smaller 13/4. In fact they gained everywhere as did the larger twin 3" cutback????? Where does that sit with the backpressure theory your mate told you?

What is interesting to me in the replies to this thread is absolutely none have come from a workshop who perform cam upgrades.

Take a read thru the info the yanks are producing. Check the numbers and then see how relevant most of the info in this thread is???

But what rpm do the bigger pipes kick in? as opposed to the smaller try ys? anyone mention that

[GenReaper]

So how would you explain HPF's results from the recent exhaust testing on a stock LS3?. The large primaries of the 17/8 headers tested lost nothing anywhere to the smaller 13/4. In fact they gained everywhere as did the larger twin 3" cutback????? Where does that sit with the backpressure theory your mate told you?

What is interesting to me in the replies to this thread is absolutely none have come from a workshop who perform cam upgrades.

Take a read thru the info the yanks are producing. Check the numbers and then see how relevant most of the info in this thread is???

Ide like to hear then how with 1 5/8 tri y pipes and a fat tune a 75mm TB im still pulling more torque than a fully tuned car with 90 or 92 mm throttle bodys and big 4 into 1's ? Please explain.

It going to be very interesting next week when it gets the full tune and 92mm TB, maybe then i can call BS on the big pipes theory.

[ebbett21]

Ide like to hear then how with 1 5/8 tri y pipes and a fat tune a 75mm TB im still pulling more torque than a fully tuned car with 90 or 92 mm throttle bodys and big 4 into 1's ? Please explain.

It going to be very interesting next week when it gets the full tune and 92mm TB, maybe then i can call BS on the big pipes theory.

look foward to that

[vassis]

So how would you explain HPF's results from the recent exhaust testing on a stock LS3?. The large primaries of the 17/8 headers tested lost nothing anywhere to the smaller 13/4. In fact they gained everywhere as did the larger twin 3" cutback????? Where does that sit with the backpressure theory your mate told you?

What is interesting to me in the replies to this thread is absolutely none have come from a workshop who perform cam upgrades.

Take a read thru the info the yanks are producing. Check the numbers and then see how relevant most of the info in this thread is???

Whos talking about a stock LS3 here?

Dont think the word stock LS3 came up once

None of what you just said is relevant to this thread also

[vassis]

But what rpm do the bigger pipes kick in? as opposed to the smaller try ys? anyone mention that

In my opinion mate regardless of the numbers your not going to put your foot down at 2 grand and expect the world anyways

I usualy drop it down a few gears get the wheels spinning and keep the engine up in the sweet spot... If you drove my car you would understand it can afford to loose some down low torque for the better more effective higher rpm torque and horspower due to making more torque holding a lower gear for a longer time (higher RPM range)

It would make more torque revving to 6500 where it might only make 300ft lbs of torque but its in a lower gear which means your making torque that way anyways

Good example is a rotary that might only make 200 ftlb (peak) of torque but revs out 1st gear at 13,000 rpm its making torque from its gearing not the motor..

The V8 next to it is making 400 (peak) but only revving to 6500 in 2nd gear. Both cars are producing the same torque in thoery by the time the rotary revs out first and the v8 revs out 2nd

Everytime you change up a gear your decreasing your torque by the ratio change

Power loss for extra RPM and better lower gearing is what wins drag racing until the torque produced by blowers NOS etc blows gearing out of the water again but thats not what we are talking about here.. What we are talking about is cammed engines and they work from lower gearing and keeping the engines revving to achieve the most power to the tyres

Like someone said earlier in this thread they have a bucketload of torque anyways it will only end up being wheelspin

Chris :)

[HYMEY]

I like the camtech 233 233 113 or Comp 232 234 112 with xer lobes. I'm not sure what other tuners think but this cam will make 330kw plus in a 6L close to 350 in a LS3 and it is so easy to tune, behaves very nicely with good economy.

[vassis]

I like the camtech 233 233 113 or Comp 232 234 112 with xer lobes. I'm not sure what other tuners think but this cam will make 330kw plus in a 6L close to 350 in a LS3 and it is so easy to tune, behaves very nicely with good economy.

The comp cam u mentioned is the one i run 232 234 112LSA XER lobes
Its smooth for how lopey it is but bad down low with standard gearing

I think it would be a good choice for ebbett21

I used single behive long duration PSI springs aswell to go with this cam was good for 6800 RPM in a stock L98 with that cam

[HYMEY]

Come for a drive in my customers car, it drives very smooth down low, no surging all in the tune lot of work in airflow tables etc. However in saying that it was easier to get right then some smaller cams even, its all in the tune for cammed cars.

[vassis]

Yeah most L98 peopel talk about dont have cabled FAST 92MM throttle bodies which is my problem being a conversion job. Im using a ls1 computer TPS and IAC which is extra work considering the standard LS1's using this setup have a hole in the TB butterfly

While driving its smooth as but my rough spot is between 1600-1800

Could be becuase the tunes a bit out due to changing oil vescosity and to BP ultimate from shell

I currently have a sus throttle cracker setting or there abouts setting thats out making my throttle cracker keep the engine at funny rpm's when clutching in (1600rpm or sometimes just off idle)

[HYMEY]

OK thats typical, what diff gears u running? I normally run more timing in that area and more fuel. TPS or map it wont make a difference with that cam, to be honest I wouldnt tps tune it unless it had much more overlap, however I normally run them richer there, so say 1200-1800 to 2000ish richen it up to around 13.2-13.4 :1 then as it approaches 2000rpm lean it back to 14.6-14.7 then after say 3000 rich again. This works very well with low diff gears, even with a 3.46 gearset and M6 with this cam in a LS1 a customers car managed under 10L/100km over 150km distance with the car cruising in mid 13 afrs, I was surprised by that. The car originally in question has an e38 and runs in Closed loop with no surging. It is more so the airflow passing thru the butterfly and initial idle airflow setting then weather the car has a hole in the TB or not, A hole in them normally makes them feel a little better off idle as there is already air passing thru the hole, feels slightly more responsive but normally with say a VZ LS1 I never drill the TB, not needed.

[ebbett21]

OK thats typical, what diff gears u running? I normally run more timing in that area and more fuel. TPS or map it wont make a difference with that cam, to be honest I wouldnt tps tune it unless it had much more overlap, however I normally run them richer there, so say 1200-1800 to 2000ish richen it up to around 13.2-13.4 :1 then as it approaches 2000rpm lean it back to 14.6-14.7 then after say 3000 rich again. This works very well with low diff gears, even with a 3.46 gearset and M6 with this cam in a LS1 a customers car managed under 10L/100km over 150km distance with the car cruising in mid 13 afrs, I was surprised by that. The car originally in question has an e38 and runs in Closed loop with no surging. It is more so the airflow passing thru the butterfly and initial idle airflow setting then weather the car has a hole in the TB or not, A hole in them normally makes them feel a little better off idle as there is already air passing thru the hole, feels slightly more responsive but normally with say a VZ LS1 I never drill the TB, not needed.

hymey didnt you have a 218/224 112 on xer lobes in a L98? How was that cam for torque? would u run one in a LS3?

[HYMEY]

Yeah most L98 peopel talk about dont have cabled FAST 92MM throttle bodies which is my problem being a conversion job. Im using a ls1 computer TPS and IAC which is extra work considering the standard LS1's using this setup have a hole in the TB butterfly

While driving its smooth as but my rough spot is between 1600-1800

Could be becuase the tunes a bit out due to changing oil vescosity and to BP ultimate from shell

I currently have a sus throttle cracker setting or there abouts setting thats out making my throttle cracker keep the engine at funny rpm's when clutching in (1600rpm or sometimes just off idle)

You can get them right without going anywhere near throttle cracker settings, I did a VT with a 244 244 110 cam and it had same TB and tuned in MAP I turn the idle corrections off, set the base idle air screw the adjust TPS, then basically use the IAC valve to correct idle(including cold start) and have no IAC valve trimming at all, just get airflow and idle timing right and will fix 99% of it. If u need a hand pm me will talk u thru it.

[HYMEY]

Yeah it responds normal until the cam kicks in then power drops when its in the zone... feels like too short of power band for that sorta cam

The car feels too jerky and torqy down low and short of breath up top

4 > 1 s will definatly deaden the bottom end to a more drivable power but im not too sure how much higher it will wanna rev to

I have revved this engine to 6800 while spinning 1st gear before the dyno tune and the low rev limiter was set

Engine builder before the cam was put in said u need to change the headers and after aswell as the tuner said he abnormaly had to modify the top end from his base tune he puts in cammed engines and also said the same thing about the tri-ys

He put the cam in @ 0degrees since the advancment is already ground into that cam

YOu have stock cats? Run some straight pipe thru sounds exhaust to me might have a partially blocked cat

[HYMEY]

hymey didnt you have a 218/224 112 on xer lobes in a L98? How was that cam for torque? would u run one in a LS3?

Yeah I did for about 18 months, It was very torquey, very snappy throttle, made 327kw on a DD on a mainline I am unsure all dynos read different however it would have made an honest 300kw on a mainline. The cam was on xfi lobes, but I used a blower cam after that, turns out it works even better then the 218/224 did even 224/228 in NA and blown applications making 310 on a mainline, I had it for sale on here its a 216/234/117 cam by camtech and sold it to Alian he made 377kw on a mainline thru unlocked A4 and a baby 112 blower. A 224/230 114 cam made only around the 350 mark with the same blower. Jezza did his own changes to the cam(in lift) and it worked very well in a VE making 310kw with a heap of area under curve. i know for a fact many smaller say 222-224 or 224-228 cams make under 300kw on mainlines. Im sure if you called Powertorque they would tell u what the common grinds make, this one surpasses them and has a stock like idle. The 232 cam will kill it past 6000rpm but at 6800 its all over so u need good pipes ex and gears to make it work(which most are prepared to do) if I used anything else I'd go the blower cam, just drives so well if u combined it with some heads and 1 7/8" headers it would go 340 plus in a ls3 and I would bet 330 cam only in one.

[ebbett21]

Yeah I did for about 18 months, It was very torquey, very snappy throttle, made 327kw on a DD on a mainline I am unsure all dynos read different however it would have made an honest 300kw on a mainline. The cam was on xfi lobes, but I used a blower cam after that, turns out it works even better then the 218/224 did even 224/228 in NA and blown applications making 310 on a mainline, I had it for sale on here its a 216/234/117 cam by camtech and sold it to Alian he made 377kw on a mainline thru unlocked A4 and a baby 112 blower. A 224/230 114 cam made only around the 350 mark with the same blower. Jezza did his own changes to the cam(in lift) and it worked very well in a VE making 310kw with a heap of area under curve.

Yea crow cams recommended a 219/224 114 nit sure of the lift but was a custom cam of theres and make 308 rwkw in a LS3 and by all accounts very torquey rite thru the rev range

[vassis]

OK thats typical, what diff gears u running? I normally run more timing in that area and more fuel. TPS or map it wont make a difference with that cam, to be honest I wouldnt tps tune it unless it had much more overlap, however I normally run them richer there, so say 1200-1800 to 2000ish richen it up to around 13.2-13.4 :1 then as it approaches 2000rpm lean it back to 14.6-14.7 then after say 3000 rich again. This works very well with low diff gears, even with a 3.46 gearset and M6 with this cam in a LS1 a customers car managed under 10L/100km over 150km distance with the car cruising in mid 13 afrs, I was surprised by that. The car originally in question has an e38 and runs in Closed loop with no surging. It is more so the airflow passing thru the butterfly and initial idle airflow setting then weather the car has a hole in the TB or not, A hole in them normally makes them feel a little better off idle as there is already air passing thru the hole, feels slightly more responsive but normally with say a VZ LS1 I never drill the TB, not needed.

Standard diff gears atm mate

I dunno i was seeing 12.5 A/F on the dyno under different throttle changes on idle was about 13.5 or so

Im more old school but isnt mid 12s good for a cammed engine before injection come out for race engines

I drove my car before the IAC wasnt keeping the revs up turned it off and back on again it was sweet everytime i clutched in went down to 1200rpm then 850 when stopped. The whole time i drove it there on after was still perfect it just changes mood swings when u turn ignition off etc

Do you think running it in the mid 12s is too rich? im not one bit worried about fuel economy as i do roughly 400km to a tank (60litres) and thats driving it hard every time i jump in it at some stage. A full highway granny drive sees about 700km per tank.

Im guessing your gunna say it is rich and that when the lean cruize mode comes on it brings it in a better range right?

I do think your right seems like its tuned for too much power at low rpm as the car feels horney and wants you to give it to it until then it sorta jerks

The car may need a touch up tune because since the tune ive changed fuels that has responded differently and a thinker oil

It does feel alot better but in some areas too good now so ill see how the tuner goes with it the next few days and ill let ya know how i went

[HYMEY]

12.5 is good for L98 heads but cruising and part throttle should be leaner, sounds like the IAC is playing havoc, ie if rpms are to high it closes off and then takes to long to recover, better off getting idle air right and turning the crap off and be done with it, otherwise u will chase your tail, so many guys talk about dyno charts and ets but I have spoke to a lot of unhappy ppl with drivability issues that they just live with when infact a 230s cam can drive near stock like and get half decent economy.

[HYMEY]

Yea crow cams recommended a 219/224 114 nit sure of the lift but was a custom cam of theres and make 308 rwkw in a LS3 and by all accounts very torquey rite thru the rev range

I am unfamiliar with that cam, but it would have great torque, ie drive a LS3 with say 1 7/8 headers and dual 3 inch OTR and mafless tune, response is pretty well awesome for a heavy road car and stock internal engine, add a small cam to that and add 40rwkw everywhere, and double the response. Nothing wrong with Aussie cams infact vcm do a 216-224 I think on 114 or 115 aswell as a 225 225-112,both these cams would have awesome area under the curve with lots of wheelspin to go with it.

[2ajmanvell82]

Hi guys I know there is a big difference between s/c and n/a and what i was saying is, I ran vcm 15 216/224 115 with harrop s/c then replaced with vcm 6 233/233 114 making 410rwkw through 3000rpm stalled auto and my brother also runs this cam in his vz ls1 5.7 TT and this cam drives great off boost and idles nicely etc, but then also ran these cams in N/A also and have had the big n/a cam, full exhaust, otr 3.7's, vs small blower cam in n/a, std exhaust, otr, 3.45's and it was a much stronger low down and pulled strong into the top end producing awesome power for budget mods. Both drivers preferring the smaller blower cammed ute and feeling it felt stronger also.

I think your 1 5/8 headers would be getting on limit, pretty much all the 6ltr and 6.2ltr's are running min 1 3/4 or at smallest the x-force 1 5/8 stepped 1 3/4 headers.

I'm interested as I have just sold my Maloo and going to be N/A 6.2ltr now, we put the 216/224 115 in my Fathers VE SS ute L98 with Dus OTR and underdrive my HSV headers and cats std mid section with rear mufflers replaced with pipes and resonators(nothing special and restrictive cats and centre muffler) and it runs almost like a std idle. To someone that is having a good listen you can tell it sounds slightly cammed but before we put it in we were running 10.5afr's (rich) quick tune and it ran 250rwkw on DD and we put cam in and tidied fuels up from 12.3-12.6 in PE and it pulls very strong from 1000rpm and 2500 on it pulls alot harder than before, waiting on dyno figure (but would be pushing up towards 300rwkw for a small cam mod L98 cai, basically std exhaust), but nice torquey stealth cam, runs 14.5-14.8 cruise and runs 11l/100 on daily driving, trip to syd and back will run 9-10l/100.

I am looking at running the new 217/225 113 in 6.2ltr as I want to keep this car standard stalled auto, and think would be nice all round cam. as the 216/224 pulled all the way through to 6700 and my current vcm 6 pulls strong to 6900rpm.

We put 232/234 112 in my mates VE Maloo LS2 dus otr x-force 1 3/4 ext and dual 3" exh and ran 300rwkw 6700 limiter and was a monster over 3000rpm but was a little bit of a pig down low and that was with the 3.7's. Would prob not be quite as lumpy in LS3 but after running about 5 different cams lately, its suprising the result u can get out of a good mid 220's cam and have all round strong power, pull strong into the top end and have good everyday driving manners and fuel economy.

[vassis]

12.5 is good for L98 heads but cruising and part throttle should be leaner, sounds like the IAC is playing havoc, ie if rpms are to high it closes off and then takes to long to recover, better off getting idle air right and turning the crap off and be done with it, otherwise u will chase your tail, so many guys talk about dyno charts and ets but I have spoke to a lot of unhappy ppl with drivability issues that they just live with when infact a 230s cam can drive near stock like and get half decent economy.

Yeah thanks for the info

Like i said its good to drive the times it responds properly just gets anoying when its idling to high or low while rolling (clutch in) for the times it plays up

Im sure it was leaner while just throttling on near idle but any acceleration im sure it was pretty much sticking to 12.5 the whole time

Thanks Chris

[vassis]

HYMEY i went off and did some reasearch today and come up with some results about the stalling issue and found that the IAT is whats distributing to the problem in the tune. When it gets cold (startup and driving on the highways) seems to idle too low, When it sits at a red light starts rolling idling higher.

It was idling at 1600 while rolling with clutch in, in a carpark today so i stopped and unplugged the IAT.. I then drove a small distance noticing it was only revving upto 1100 RPM with clutch in.. Then replugged it back in and back up to 1600. I think that proves what you said about the airflow settings. Its overcorrecting airflow due to intake temp and having an ally OTR the temp varies alot. I also then moved the sensor to the drivers side close to the TB where the second hole is in the OTR and found it fixed all the problems until the OTR changed temps again after sitting. The location the sensor normaly is is right above the radiator near the element of the OTR.
Ive been told it may be a ziggys OTR if that helps.

When i backoff the throttle when it wants to sit at 1600 rpm the car drives by itself at this rpm. This has only been happening since ive put the new IAC motor but before then always had further stalling issues with the original one it was tuned with

[HYMEY]

HYMEY i went off and did some reasearch today and come up with some results about the stalling issue and found that the IAT is whats distributing to the problem in the tune. When it gets cold (startup and driving on the highways) seems to idle too low, When it sits at a red light starts rolling idling higher.

It was idling at 1600 while rolling with clutch in, in a carpark today so i stopped and unplugged the IAT.. I then drove a small distance noticing it was only revving upto 1100 RPM with clutch in.. Then replugged it back in and back up to 1600. I think that proves what you said about the airflow settings. Its overcorrecting airflow due to intake temp and having an ally OTR the temp varies alot. I also then moved the sensor to the drivers side close to the TB where the second hole is in the OTR and found it fixed all the problems until the OTR changed temps again after sitting. The location the sensor normaly is is right above the radiator near the element of the OTR.
Ive been told it may be a ziggys OTR if that helps.

When i backoff the throttle when it wants to sit at 1600 rpm the car drives by itself at this rpm. This has only been happening since ive put the new IAC motor but before then always had further stalling issues with the original one it was tuned with

OK mate the iat sensor will alter fueling if the tuner has populated the tables with the COS. It wont make rpms stick though that is purely airflow related. It can be easily rectified with about 20 minutes work.

[HYMEY]

Hi guys I know there is a big difference between s/c and n/a and what i was saying is, I ran vcm 15 216/224 115 with harrop s/c then replaced with vcm 6 233/233 114 making 410rwkw through 3000rpm stalled auto and my brother also runs this cam in his vz ls1 5.7 TT and this cam drives great off boost and idles nicely etc, but then also ran these cams in N/A also and have had the big n/a cam, full exhaust, otr 3.7's, vs small blower cam in n/a, std exhaust, otr, 3.45's and it was a much stronger low down and pulled strong into the top end producing awesome power for budget mods. Both drivers preferring the smaller blower cammed ute and feeling it felt stronger also.

I think your 1 5/8 headers would be getting on limit, pretty much all the 6ltr and 6.2ltr's are running min 1 3/4 or at smallest the x-force 1 5/8 stepped 1 3/4 headers.

I'm interested as I have just sold my Maloo and going to be N/A 6.2ltr now, we put the 216/224 115 in my Fathers VE SS ute L98 with Dus OTR and underdrive my HSV headers and cats std mid section with rear mufflers replaced with pipes and resonators(nothing special and restrictive cats and centre muffler) and it runs almost like a std idle. To someone that is having a good listen you can tell it sounds slightly cammed but before we put it in we were running 10.5afr's (rich) quick tune and it ran 250rwkw on DD and we put cam in and tidied fuels up from 12.3-12.6 in PE and it pulls very strong from 1000rpm and 2500 on it pulls alot harder than before, waiting on dyno figure (but would be pushing up towards 300rwkw for a small cam mod L98 cai, basically std exhaust), but nice torquey stealth cam, runs 14.5-14.8 cruise and runs 11l/100 on daily driving, trip to syd and back will run 9-10l/100.

I am looking at running the new 217/225 113 in 6.2ltr as I want to keep this car standard stalled auto, and think would be nice all round cam. as the 216/224 pulled all the way through to 6700 and my current vcm 6 pulls strong to 6900rpm.

We put 232/234 112 in my mates VE Maloo LS2 dus otr x-force 1 3/4 ext and dual 3" exh and ran 300rwkw 6700 limiter and was a monster over 3000rpm but was a little bit of a pig down low and that was with the 3.7's. Would prob not be quite as lumpy in LS3 but after running about 5 different cams lately, its suprising the result u can get out of a good mid 220's cam and have all round strong power, pull strong into the top end and have good everyday driving manners and fuel economy.


Yeah the e38 is where it gets tricky, that cam behaves very very nicely at idle and above(in all cars i have tuned), ie can take off in second and just roll through car parks no throttle no pig rooting. I think most guys would go bigger cams and a set of diff gears if they seen the potential of how they can drive. I put a heap of stuff on efilive forum on e38s, But it is only about really 20% of still what can be done but some good insight. It is getting off topic now but soon will be adding some more stuff more so speed density related. I have gone off HPT COS simply because it is missing a few parameters that make them feel so much better to drive once there set correctly.

[vassis]

OK mate the iat sensor will alter fueling if the tuner has populated the tables with the COS. It wont make rpms stick though that is purely airflow related. It can be easily rectified with about 20 minutes work.

So me changing fuels after the tune caused this?

When i drove away seemed great

[ebbett21]

So what u leaning towards so far, out of curiosity

I can talk cars all day :)

Hi vasis , atm because ive seen dyno graphs the texas speed 231/236 cam or crow cams 227/231 both on 112 LSA for a nice chop at idle

[HYMEY]

Possibly, We have been using Mobil Synergy 8000, over the Shell 98, I do know there is nothing wrong with Shell fuels in Brissy but up here I feel the octane is quite low ie if the car is tuned on Mobil(which I am told is BP Ultimate) and say a engine has 26* timing at pk tq, the shell won't tolerate that have to pull 2 deg out, other then that no difference in the way the cars drive, only thing is the Mobil tank here had some water and created a lot of sludge in my tank as well as a lot of other cars which is a bitch have to clean out the tank and replace filter/strainer, the cars generally run crap if this is the case, I just think the tune needs work by the sounds of it, as a customer you have every right to have the car running right with such(in the real world) small cam and tuner should not argue with you. Anyways pm me if u need advice on this as we are a little off track lol.

[vassis]

Hi vasis , atm because ive seen dyno graphs the texas speed 231/236 cam or crow cams 227/231 both on 112 LSA for a nice chop at idle

Yeah mate i just put up a utube video of my car idling if u wanna check it out

Remeber the exhaust is a bit crap and you can see the velocity of the exaust fumes making the grass move haha

Its a cold start so wait till the revs drop down a bit you will hear the lope more and more

YouTube- 232 234 112lsa L98 6 litre in VX SS Idle after tune

[ebbett21]

Yeah mate i just put up a utube video of my car idling if u wanna check it out

Remeber the exhaust is a bit crap and you can see the velocity of the exaust fumes making the grass move haha

Its a cold start so wait till the revs drop down a bit you will hear the lope more and more

YouTube- 232 234 112lsa L98 6 litre in VX SS Idle after tune (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqCVvnZ3ERE)

sounds sweet must put a smilie on the face every time you fire it up

[vassis]

Possibly, We have been using Mobil Synergy 8000, over the Shell 98, I do know there is nothing wrong with Shell fuels in Brissy but up here I feel the octane is quite low ie if the car is tuned on Mobil(which I am told is BP Ultimate) and say a engine has 26* timing at pk tq, the shell won't tolerate that have to pull 2 deg out, other then that no difference in the way the cars drive, only thing is the Mobil tank here had some water and created a lot of sludge in my tank as well as a lot of other cars which is a bitch have to clean out the tank and replace filter/strainer, the cars generally run crap if this is the case, I just think the tune needs work by the sounds of it, as a customer you have every right to have the car running right with such(in the real world) small cam and tuner should not argue with you. Anyways pm me if u need advice on this as we are a little off track lol.

Yeah since going to BP ive never gone back to shell id rather run out of fuel on the way past shell just to try get to a BP

I have noticed the difference since changing the BP brings so much more response down low and seems to be way more angry everywhere alse

[HYMEY]

Hi vasis , atm because ive seen dyno graphs the texas speed 231/236 cam or crow cams 227/231 both on 112 LSA for a nice chop at idle

The texas speed cams are a good choice GM motorsport been usin em for long enough now,

xer lobes always make power in LS engines always have and still do, I would not worry about going crazy lift, think about your valve train. I know LSL lobes are meant to be good but the ones I have looked at look like a square lobe, they are spring killers basically.Comp EPS lobes are the best now for these heads as they have a heavy intake valve, they have a gentle ramp and make power like an XER lobe, so you run into less float which means more top end hp and longer spring life. EPS designed the lobes but Patrick G will get you one off LS1 tech he will even spec you a good one. At the end of the day the two top cams will have very little difference in power, Look at the lobe design, the camtech 233 lobe is like an xer lobe, but the new eps lobes make excellent power and better on valve gear and you can run a single spring, stock lifters and the springs will last ages. I am trying a 232-240-112 from them soon.

[HYMEY]

Yeah since going to BP ive never gone back to shell id rather run out of fuel on the way past shell just to try get to a BP

I have noticed the difference since changing the BP brings so much more response down low and seems to be way more angry everywhere alse

plus 1 for that. See it on the engine dyno too.

[vassis]

sounds sweet must put a smilie on the face every time you fire it up

Yeah its sounds different cause it has 1 5/8 tri y's stock cats and 2 straight thru muffler boxes look like they came off a truck with no baffles with a non mandrel bent twin 3"

Alot of peoples cars sound similar cause they have fitted a few well known combonations like DF and sureflo kits etc makes them all sound the same

Personaly the way the power drops off at higher rpm is more my concern than the sound it produces

[vassis]

The texas speed cams are a good choice GM motorsport been usin em for long enough now,

xer lobes always make power in LS engines always have and still do, I would not worry about going crazy lift, think about your valve train. I know LSL lobes are meant to be good but the ones I have looked at look like a square lobe, they are spring killers basically.Comp EPS lobes are the best now for these heads as they have a heavy intake valve, they have a gentle ramp and make power like an XER lobe, so you run into less float which means more top end hp and longer spring life. EPS designed the lobes but Patrick G will get you one off LS1 tech he will even spec you a good one. At the end of the day the two top cams will have very little difference in power, Look at the lobe design, the camtech 233 lobe is like an xer lobe, but the new eps lobes make excellent power and better on valve gear and you can run a single spring, stock lifters and the springs will last ages. I am trying a 232-240-112 from them soon.

Agree for the performance my cam gives me which is the 232 234 112 comp cam xer it seems rather harsh on the drivetrain making it a bit noisy with the ticking

But in saying that didnt you say the project wasnt going to be an everday car?

[ebbett21]

The texas speed cams are a good choice GM motorsport been usin em for long enough now,

xer lobes always make power in LS engines always have and still do, I would not worry about going crazy lift, think about your valve train. I know LSL lobes are meant to be good but the ones I have looked at look like a square lobe, they are spring killers basically.Comp EPS lobes are the best now for these heads as they have a heavy intake valve, they have a gentle ramp and make power like an XER lobe, so you run into less float which means more top end hp and longer spring life. EPS designed the lobes but Patrick G will get you one off LS1 tech he will even spec you a good one. At the end of the day the two top cams will have very little difference in power, Look at the lobe design, the camtech 233 lobe is like an xer lobe, but the new eps lobes make excellent power and better on valve gear and you can run a single spring, stock lifters and the springs will last ages. I am trying a 232-240-112 from them soon.

Thanks for that insight, the TSP is high lift over 600 lift could cause valvetrain issues later down the track. The PTV Clearance is getting close over 236 ? eps lobes are they new on the market? comp have a few grinds as alot of other companies but ive thought why such big lift like over 600. Its been proven some cams with less ligt are making good numbers.

[vassis]

Thanks for that insight, the TSP is high lift over 600 lift could cause valvetrain issues later down the track. The PTV Clearance is getting close over 236 ? eps lobes are they new on the market? comp have a few grinds as alot of other companies but ive thought why such big lift like over 600. Its been proven some cams with less ligt are making good numbers.

Its why i went with the 232 234 112 comp cam its just under the 600" lift mark which is my springs travel limit.. Higher than that may start becoming less reliable and or more expensive aswell

[ebbett21]

Yeah its sounds different cause it has 1 5/8 tri y's stock cats and 2 straight thru muffler boxes look like they came off a truck with no baffles with a non mandrel bent twin 3"

Alot of peoples cars sound similar cause they have fitted a few well known combonations like DF and sureflo kits etc makes them all sound the same

Personaly the way the power drops off at higher rpm is more my concern than the sound it produces

dunno but maybe have a second opinion on the tune.

[HYMEY]

Thanks for that insight, the TSP is high lift over 600 lift could cause valvetrain issues later down the track. The PTV Clearance is getting close over 236 ? eps lobes are they new on the market? comp have a few grinds as alot of other companies but ive thought why such big lift like over 600. Its been proven some cams with less ligt are making good numbers.

EPS lobes are around .600 lift maybe less depends on the duration but they have a gentle ramp and more rounded lobe not like a typical square lobe but they proven to make power, They are a new lobe designed by comp for Engine Power Systems. And yes the TSP lobes are spring killers. I have seen the eps lobes outdo even xfi and lsl and they are a better lobe for valvetrain. The noisy valve train is not necessarily the cam it can be lifters my stock L98 lifters were noisy with stock cam!, if the valve train geometry is right and you have adequate preload they are very quiet.

[ebbett21]

EPS lobes are around .600 lift maybe less depends on the duration but they have a gentle ramp and more rounded lobe not like a typical square lobe but they proven to make power, They are a new lobe designed by comp for Engine Power Systems. And yes the TSP lobes are spring killers. I have seen the eps lobes outdo even xfi and lsl and they are a better lobe for valvetrain. The noisy valve train is not necessarily the cam it can be lifters my stock L98 lifters were noisy with stock cam!, if the valve train geometry is right and you have adequate preload they are very quiet.

The EPS how do i go about looking at one of those cams? Thanks

TSP they have most of there cams over 600 for the LS3 and a spring kit rated to 675' would the springs need replacing every 5000 kms for example why are comp and tsp selling high lift cams if theres a chance of dangers of spring failures, joe public like me read the write up on there site, buy the cam ect and dont see the foreseen maybe future dramas associated with high lift cam shfts. i remember reading the 300 kw stock cam was about 560 lift and thought of aggressive back then and now over 600.

[vassis]

The EPS how do i go about looking at one of those cams? Thanks

TSP they have most of there cams over 600 for the LS3 and a spring kit rated to 675' would the springs need replacing every 5000 kms for example why are comp and tsp selling high lift cams if theres a chance of dangers of spring failures, joe public like me read the write up on there site, buy the cam ect and dont see the foreseen maybe future dramas associated with high lift cam shfts. i remember reading the 300 kw stock cam was about 560 lift and thought of aggressive back then and now over 600.

Maybe your cam choice will come down to the springs u use then

I used the LS1511ML springs from PSI. I gave wrong info previously they have a max lift of 625" not 600" with a 595, 598" lift cam like mine gives room for roller rockers upgrade but they are an endurance spring made for everyday driving and security

[ebbett21]

This cam 231/247-113LSA its a thunder racing specced cam, they didnt elaborate on the lift but said it would give abit of a chop and retain driveability. looks good to me

[boggers007]

This cam 231/247-113LSA its a thunder racing specced cam, they didnt elaborate on the lift but said it would give abit of a chop and retain driveability. looks good to me

a tuner down near me spec'd this cam for my car as i said i wanted a big lumpy cam and he had it on one of the SSV wagons that they have and boy does it sound awesome lol. You will be very happy with this. If i remember right on full street trim with standard diff gearing and a 4000rpm hi stall with a full 3inch exhaust and otr etc they managed to run a 11.75 down at the motorplex so im sure ull be pumping out some decent numbers.

[HYMEY]

Thats pretty strong....cal-346 ran 11.9 in central qlds shitty unhappy mph weather with a 227-239-115, stock gears and new very slippery track, they tested that 23x 24x 113 cam in an LS3 made 550hp at engine so it works good although a torquer v2 will make the same power with only a 2 deg split.

[duke5700]

This cam 231/247-113LSA its a thunder racing specced cam, they didnt elaborate on the lift but said it would give abit of a chop and retain driveability. looks good to me

I like those specs :bow:

[ebbett21]

a tuner down near me spec'd this cam for my car as i said i wanted a big lumpy cam and he had it on one of the SSV wagons that they have and boy does it sound awesome lol. You will be very happy with this. If i remember right on full street trim with standard diff gearing and a 4000rpm hi stall with a full 3inch exhaust and otr etc they managed to run a 11.75 down at the motorplex so im sure ull be pumping out some decent numbers.

booger is that the comp 231/247 or thunder racing 231/247 im sure the TR is actually the comp anyway.
Is it quite choppy is it?

[boggers007]

booger is that the comp 231/247 or thunder racing 231/247 im sure the TR is actually the comp anyway.
Is it quite choppy is it?

it was a comp 231/247 but i doubt there would be a huge amount of difference. Yeh it was definetley choppy, i love the lumpy shakyness but if thats not your thing then id either stay away from this cam or get it custom grind to like a 115 or something to make it less angry and less cop bait i guess.

[ebbett21]

it was a comp 231/247 but i doubt there would be a huge amount of difference. Yeh it was definetley choppy, i love the lumpy shakyness but if thats not your thing then id either stay away from this cam or get it custom grind to like a 115 or something to make it less angry and less cop bait i guess.

cheers booger good info, better not let grandad in the car with that cam his false teeth might fall out from the shake

[boggers007]

lol well after all the research i have done this is my big cam of choice and once i heard it i definetley wanted it. It is loud and especially on a 3inch system. i was told id be able to pump at 430rwhp with my exhaust system i have atm so im sure ud be looking at probably 470 easy.

[BLACKVE]

Just fitted a 239/247 comp to my L98 with heads and flycuts made 358rwkw's

Did a search while back and found a great thread on a corrvette forum about cam tried etc in a ls3 and from memory a high 220's/low 230's with a high 230 on exhaust 115lsa was the bestany bigger and no gains wish i could find that thread again was a great read...

[ebbett21]

lol well after all the research i have done this is my big cam of choice and once i heard it i definetley wanted it. It is loud and especially on a 3inch system. i was told id be able to pump at 430rwhp with my exhaust system i have atm so im sure ud be looking at probably 470 easy.

A LS3 made 347 rwkw at a workshop 5 1/2 hours away with a 227/227 595 595 112 Headers, tune. So theyre making great power with a mild cam setup.

[duke5700]

A LS3 made 347 rwkw at a workshop 5 1/2 hours away with a 227/227 595 595 112 Headers, tune. So theyre making great power with a mild cam setup.

Dynos are only indicative..

[ebbett21]

Dynos are only indicative..

yea im not into dyno numbers really as long as the tune is what i expect, starts and idles sweet and throatle response is good. suppose a workshop can minipulate a dyno prinout

[boggers007]

yea im not into dyno numbers really as long as the tune is what i expect, starts and idles sweet and throatle response is good. suppose a workshop can minipulate a dyno prinout

yeh unfortunatley they can and i found that out the hard way

[ebbett21]

yeh unfortunatley they can and i found that out the hard way

why what happened?

[boggers007]

why what happened?

when i first got my car after a few weeks i went and got the exhaust done and thought i might upgrade the cai to a growler one and then after talking to the exhaust place they recommended this guy who either didnt know what he was doing or just didnt wanna do it. With me not knowing shit about tunes and stuff he said he needed the car for 3 days and i thought this was normal for a maf tune and all he really did in that time was install the Growler box and turn off the engine light because of the O2 sensors. He gave me a dyno sheet saying it made 340rwhp and was up on what it was blah blah blah. After about a week i got this engine light and took it back and he said oh it thinks its running rich give it a week or 2 and the light will go away then after that it didnt go away so i took it back and he said he'd lean the tune out. All he did was reset the error codes and i kept getting the engine light. After about 2 months of kicking shit up with this guy i took it to a better tuner and after he dyno'd it and looked at the tune he had basically done nothing and the car was running rich as hell.

[ebbett21]

Just fitted a 239/247 comp to my L98 with heads and flycuts made 358rwkw's

Did a search while back and found a great thread on a corrvette forum about cam tried etc in a ls3 and from memory a high 220's/low 230's with a high 230 on exhaust 115lsa was the bestany bigger and no gains wish i could find that thread again was a great read...

224/236-115LSA that is thunder racing recommendation of cam of choice for great torque /street manners, makes good power really comes down to individual requirements

[ebbett21]

when i first got my car after a few weeks i went and got the exhaust done and thought i might upgrade the cai to a growler one and then after talking to the exhaust place they recommended this guy who either didnt know what he was doing or just didnt wanna do it. With me not knowing shit about tunes and stuff he said he needed the car for 3 days and i thought this was normal for a maf tune and all he really did in that time was install the Growler box and turn off the engine light because of the O2 sensors. He gave me a dyno sheet saying it made 340rwhp and was up on what it was blah blah blah. After about a week i got this engine light and took it back and he said oh it thinks its running rich give it a week or 2 and the light will go away then after that it didnt go away so i took it back and he said he'd lean the tune out. All he did was reset the error codes and i kept getting the engine light. After about 2 months of kicking shit up with this guy i took it to a better tuner and after he dyno'd it and looked at the tune he had basically done nothing and the car was running rich as hell.

ask for your money back on the tune , explain to him why you want it or you will expose his shop name on the LS1 Forum

[ebbett21]

Thats pretty strong....cal-346 ran 11.9 in central qlds shitty unhappy mph weather with a 227-239-115, stock gears and new very slippery track, they tested that 23x 24x 113 cam in an LS3 made 550hp at engine so it works good although a torquer v2 will make the same power with only a 2 deg split.

232/234 .595/.598 112 LSA is that the V2 from tsp. The GM Motorsports SR cam do you know what the specs on that one

[boggers007]

ask for your money back on the tune , explain to him why you want it or you will expose his shop name on the LS1 Forum

cant now as this was a year ago and what not

[vassis]

cant now as this was a year ago and what not

I would mate letting assholes like that get away with not doing work they get paid to do makes me angry :vpo:

If you provide evidence that the tune wasnt touched you can quite easily take it further and pressure him into refunding money rather than being threatened to be taken to court

You can be prosecuted for stealing and charging someone for a job they didnt do is stealing

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

name the p^)^$rick

[vassis]

name the p^)^$rick

Agree hate to see others ripped off

[boggers007]

i have already told people i know to stay away, i feel sorry for anyone else as apparently he can do the skylines and sh*t etc so id like to know what kind of job he would do with them

[Tangles]

If anyone is in brisbane, I can recommend BPS in Cleveland. They do magical work and some INSANE stuff!

They had a E2 maloo in there with 210km on the clock, stroked to 427ci and with a 1000hp turbo on it.

They had about 4 or 5 VE SS's there and my Maloo. 880 for a tune (1500 at Powertorque/Walkinshaw with same system).

I think it was around 3300 for a full cam package that would wake up the neighbors. I was VERY tempted.

Great guys, great service.

Also, for exhausts...Mick and Men At Work Exhausts was awesome. dual 3 inch x force (1 7/8 to 3 inch, hi flow cats and everything)...2600 installed.

[GenReaper]

look foward to that

Verdict is in, after doing the Throttle Body and fuel pump etc no change at all.

Even after retuning, it gained nothing.

So its obvious that 1 5/8 tri Y pipes are maxed out at 334 rwkw as the same cam combo makes 350rwkw in cars with 4 into 1's

It produces more torque and earlier but tops out and gets constipated.

So 4 into 1's are on the cards if you want the numbers.

So there you have it the facts on the saga.

Was pretty funny tho, put some 225 60 15 tyres on the back and it smoked them like a bitch and dropped 30 rwkw, hehe.
The 245 35 19 pulled no problems tho.

[ebbett21]

Verdict is in, after doing the Throttle Body and fuel pump etc no change at all.

Even after retuning, it gained nothing.

So its obvious that 1 5/8 tri Y pipes are maxed out at 334 rwkw as the same cam combo makes 350rwkw in cars with 4 into 1's

It produces more torque and earlier but tops out and gets constipated.

So 4 inot 1's are on the cards if you want the numbers.

So there you have it the facts on the saga.

good stuff proof is all done. Funny enough i asked diffillipo exhausts the same question about twin 2.5 or 3'' catback and said the twin 2.5'' is good for 340 rwkw after that twin 3''.

[GenReaper]

look foward to that


good stuff proof is all done. Funny enough i asked diffillipo exhausts the same question about twin 2.5 or 3'' catback and said the twin 2.5'' is good for 340 rwkw after that twin 3''.

We are pretty confident that with 1 3/4 4 into 1's and 3 inch collector flanges and open up the front of the cats and run 3 inch from the collector to the front of the cats it should make 350rwkw.

Just the design of the try y and the fact it has a 2.5 inch collector flange doesnt help.

My exhaust does flow quite a bit, its not a crappy setup we just believe from the cats forward its got tits on it.

Seems to drive much better now with the right throttle body and tune but the power figures still remain the same.

Will do an exhaust upgrade down the track and report back but thats not going to happen straight away but will let you know the outcome.

Damn thing goes like a rocket anyway but hey a faster rocket is always better :D Pulls like a train anyway especialy mid range so believe me its not lacking at all. At the end of the day turning the tyres up top RPM like it does, does not make you go any quicker anyway, need more traction too.

As they say its not the guy with the most power its the one who can put it to the ground.

[ebbett21]

yea i cant wait for the difference from stock cam to cammed. Im hoping the bigger pipes come into there own

[vassis]

Verdict is in, after doing the Throttle Body and fuel pump etc no change at all.

Even after retuning, it gained nothing.

So its obvious that 1 5/8 tri Y pipes are maxed out at 334 rwkw as the same cam combo makes 350rwkw in cars with 4 into 1's

It produces more torque and earlier but tops out and gets constipated.

So 4 into 1's are on the cards if you want the numbers.

So there you have it the facts on the saga.

Was pretty funny tho, put some 225 60 15 tyres on the back and it smoked them like a bitch and dropped 30 rwkw, hehe.
The 245 35 19 pulled no problems tho.

I knew it wasnt going to make more

there's no way your engine is going to outflow that TB u used to have on

In the old cars CFM ratings used to play a huge part because u needed the right velocity thru carbies to get them working correctly where now days as long as the TB outflows the engine the injectors control the fuel flow so therfor is not important. As long as you dont hit the TB's capacity in flow its ok.

A mates LX torana used to run a 750 DP made 470fwhp NA with a red 308. It used to redline at about 7500 rpm but its gone to 8000 while under the influence of nitrous. Being a bigger engine but revving less i dont see a LXX motor needing much more than 800-900 CFM which i think the standard ls1 TB was rated at 750 CFM or something.

Interesting about the tri'ys though i got a fair bit less at the tires but after looking at the dyno sheet it drops off a cliff right after it makes its highest power rather than a nice rounded line up top end that a good flowing exaust gives. My problem being not only do i have to deal with the tri'ys but standard cats aswell haha

Oh well thanks for info on those results

[ebbett21]

Well ordered Texas Speed 231/236 641'' 615'' 112 cam,pushrods, PRC dual spring kit-seats, seals, retainers , pushrods. All gaskets, bolts evrything for the swap for 1,250.00NZD shipping included

They are excellant to deal with