Take our VT-VZ and get lost !!

[Thorpey]

Quiet frankly i'm getting kind of sick hearing the whole 'old' Vt-Vz setups being classed as not worth doing up or advancing. I'm refering to on more than one occasion tuners/builders telling me when my LS1 wears out don't bother with another just throw something decent into it and it seems where ever i look no updates are becomming available , for example OTR's and thats only the start of it. I totally understand moving forward with the VE class but come on people there are still a mountain of proud people still wanting to spend money on their VT-VZ setups. Perhaps the forum name should change to "VE and VE forums" ?
Sorry bout the whinge guys i feel better now.

[Wonky]

VT - VZ are still fine cars for those who can't afford/justify the cost of a VE or better. My daughters both have VY V8s and they're still great cars!

However, I would think it's human nature for the majority of developers to move onto the newer model as that's where new markets exist and the rewards in developing something good will be there. Sure, there's a huge market for instance for VT - VZ OTRs, but most people who want one will already have one, leaving only a relatively small market in reality. Plus after years of development gains are probably minimal now, with pretty much optimised designs both aesthetically and performance wise with OTRs like the DUS, so why would those guys spend expensive development dollars on them when there's a whole new market out there?

[Popeye1]

Hey dont be turned off thers plenty of shops that will help, in Sydney i delt with CHE Xzost and my curent shop Russo perfomance and these two shops will go out of there way to help no mater what model you got.
I to have a vz its a ute with a PWR 112 blower and they say its an older style and dose not perform like the new ones! Forking bullshit, with the new mods it as run a 11.510@ 119.02MPH with1.636 60 foot with only 5 psi now i fixed the problem and i recon it wil run an 11 flat.
By the way these 2 shops are forum sponsers so give them a call they will help.
YouTube - Induction noise

[charlie15]

I bought my Monaro over a VE SS.
Maybe some people just dont want a newer model. Look at the low km Vx/Vy GTO/GTS,
worth more than a VE clubsport. I havent heard of a place not wanting to mod
an ls1 as yet, but i dont keep record

[Luke_]

I bought my VY because I wanted a VY not a VE :)

[jsme]

I was in the same boat.

VE's just didnt do it for me, could have bought one, but opted for a black VZ R8, so glad I did too.

[VYSHSV8]

I love the vt to vz models plus I love the drivability of the factory ve can't beat it over the earlier models so now I have a good combination a vx a Vy and a ve.

[HSVQUE]

I was in the market for a vz senator or gts coupe in 07 but insurance prices for an under 25 on them cars was 5k+ a year.. Mass waste of money.. So I went with the ve which is a very smooth car.

Now I'm 25 I'm considering a vt-vz hsv sedan or coupe as a second car.. They have character n easy to drop an L98 or LS3 in.. Jk ;)

[sld86]

id rather a vz r8 over my ve anyday, just 1 of those decisions i rushed into

[Evman]

I could have bought a VE with what I've spent on my VY ;)

I know where the OP is coming from. There's always room for improvement and it gets a bit disappointing to see companies say, "we already have a product that does the job".

Sometimes near enough isn't good enough :stick:

[AQICLS3]

Every 4 years I update my car but the VE just doesnt do it for me. Driven many VE's and they dont have feel on the road that my VY has. So droped in a LS3 and have the best of both worlds. Next car will be something completley different but will never get rid of my VY.

[Brendan]

I've still got my VTII, still works, still meaning to put some headers on it (it's only been 11 years)

I spend 60% of the year overseas so no point buying a newer model when the old one still works (not that I don't want a new Sportwagon).

[SammyK]

I test drove a VE SS and then my now VZ SSZ ... Same day, same roads, same conditions. I wasnt a fan at all of the VE and still not sold on the shape if im honest.

[STod.]

Yep, same here. I bought a VZ GTO over a VE GTS and dont regret it at all. The only thing is the VE engines seem to make good power figures with a small amount of mods. But I do always hear tuners say to go for something else other than an LS1.
And the GTO was more expensive than VE GTS I looked at buying, so i don't think money is always the issue.

[DC347]

Looked at Ve myself not that long ago but have spent to much on the VZ and not real keen in having to start all over again. I think what the OP is trying to say its not the VE it's the LS1 engine that is getting a bad rap. Not as advanced no, but still reponds good to mods. You have to weigh up the cost of replacing the LS1 with a L98 or LS2 than still adding mods. The 6k or 7k for the conversion alone is alot that can be spent on mods for the LS1. Yes you have a LS1 to sell but they are old hat apparently and not many people want them. Just my take

[duke5700]

Meh..

Its just about been and done for the early girls, everything is available from an airbox mod through to a turbocharged stroker.. It makes good business sense to move into a market which currently has no products and will require a need to be filled.

The whole LS3 into early girl thing exists because it is such good value for money.

[VX2VESS]

ha quite frankly i had mine fully sorted out. everyone raving about how much better the Ve was i finally got one this year.

I still prefer the old one, handled better went better and more comfortable than the hardassed SS seats. i had modified it over many years to the point it was perfect for me and in its improved setup it was very reliable and a pleasure to drive.

Still sorting out all the VE issues, was hoping it was a better starting point but not so...they have as many issues as the old ones or more.

ls1 was a good motor. mine was tuned, heads, tiny cam not much bigger than stock, HV oil pump and chain, ext exhaust, valve springs, auto. against the l98 just tune and exhaust, manual. the ls1 was far quicker i thought being a manual bigger they would be about even but not so. VE clutch sucks! don't want to do a lot to this one, over that. but seems will have to replace a lot just to get the quality up.

[DC347]

I totally understand why people that do the development and make the go fast bits aren't developing LS1 and more as it's all been done. I think its just people that own them are sick of be bagged for having one and continually being told to get a LS2 or LS3 if they want to make HP. LS1 make quite enough HP for many people

[Drewie]

I am not sure which way to jump with my VX SS, it has only done 68,000km and drives like a new car, I can afford to go buy a new VE SS tomorrow but I keep thinking I would probably only get maybe $10k or so for a trade so would have to put $30k+ to it and can't see the value in doing it. Starting to think I might just keep it and rather than end up with 2 V8's I might buy a VW Golf or similar. I can see where the OP is coming from as most of the discussion/topics on here are based on VE very little on the earlier models. Maybe this forum should be set up like the 'Just Commodores Forum' and have sub forums for the various models ie: VB-VL, VN-VS, VT-VZ, VE, that way you can discuss matters and problems pertaining to your preferred model with like minded owners.

[ebbett21]

I think spending money on engine conversions ect is a waste of money on a VT-VZ unless you plan on keeping the car long term. It really doesnt add any value to your car at all.
If i were to trade in my car now with the LS3 in it id loose a bucket load of cash and someone else would get all my hard work for half the price for what ive spent on it.
Cant see why people do up there cars then sell them for a VE bugger that

A LS1 can be pretty quick on the street with a cam or blower think some need to have bragging rights can only go 100 kmph on the open highway, how much power is needed really

[awesome _vzss]

i also could of bought a ve ss with the money i spent on my vzss ,
i have one of the last ls1 motors and love it .
It's been so reliable and has produced good power,it might
not produce the same power as ls2 and ls3 with equilant mods
but also the vt to vz are lighter cars as the ve is a much heavier
car.
Not always about power

[Groboz]

i also could of bought a ve ss with the money i spent on my vzss ,
i have one of the last ls1 motors and love it .
It's been so reliable and has produced good power,it might
not produce the same power as ls2 and ls3 with equilant mods
but also the vt to vz are lighter cars as the ve is a much heavier
car.
Not always about power

Not to mention that my VZ Monaro has a more slippery 0.31 drag coefficient over the VEs brick like 0.33 :rofl:

[HSVREDSLED]

Depends what you want.

Want to get a new car every two years? Great! Do it! You wil be smashed by depreciation but if you have the means and its your passion go for it!

[decoupe]

I was choosing between a 2nd hand VE GTS and my VY GTS Coupe a few years back . They were both around the same price .
I saw the two together and IMO the VE looked like an oversize Hyundai Excel beside the sleek looking Coupe .
I drove both and thought that the VE GTS felt more like an SV6 . It just did nothing for me .
I also thought about the depreciation of both .
I am very happy that I chose the Coupe ....

[BLACKVE]

Having both a VY and a VE i like both, the VY bit lighter fun with the cam and 3.9's the VE is a better handler and the ride is awesome in the end the VE is the better drive but there's nothing wrong with the early commodores.

[SS_FIFTY]

I understand mate, It seems everything is being more targeted at the VE market now. Even when I open threads which seem to be of help and then find its all about a VE. Does get quite Frustrating at times. Especially now alot of older threads are losing photos and whatnot.

[KPWISHN]

I have both and enjoy both. I agree that replacing a clapped LS1 with another LS1 would be kinda gay and a bit of a waste when LS3/L98's etc are so cheap. Sure LS1's are good but if forced to get a new engine then why wouldn't you up the anti for the few extra dollars? You would struggle to find anyone out there that has undertaken such an engine swap that isn't happier with the bigger motor in their VT-VZ. BTW, there are probably more mods readily available for VT-VZ then any other car ever made in OZ.

[bundys]

im selling my ve ssv to buy a vt r8. personal preferance, everyone has there own

[hRTHSV]

We have a VE R8 wagon which I drive drive most of the time, I get my VZ clubby out for it's occasional drive and think how much lighter it fells to drive, I think it handles better but does ride a bit ifrmer.

Last week I brought a $2000 VR acclaim (IRS) 118K that had near new King Springs and KYB struts and shocks, it only has a set of 16 inch 225 wheels and tyres on it that are old and the wheel alignment is unknown at this stage. The big thing I notice is that the VR feels so much lighter, feels crips at low RPM's (no mid range or top end but) and I would say is a better handler than the VE R8 wagon with far less body roll. My wife thinks the same, bit sad really comapring the handling of a $65K plus car to a $2k car.

So while cars have moved forward with power and refinement, the weight is killing them, making them feel a bit dull and lethargic, but very safe and great cruising cars which is what the public demand.

Moral of the story, if your happy with what you have keep it.

[LS1-5.7]

As far as I'm concerned the VE is far from the car it was built up to be and I prefer my VY any day. You've only gotta look at the amount of problems VE owners are having to realise it is not that good. The VE was a totally new model and with that comes a totally new range of problems that Holden knowingly lets their customers find and tell them about so they can improve it with the next model. Newer does not always mean better :(
I'll be waiting for at least VF or whatever they name it before I'd even consider buying one. :soap:

[Groboz]

I predict someone in a couple of years time lamenting how there's nothing new for the VE since they brought out the 2000kg VF.:)

[feistl]

Seems to be all the VT-VZ fanbios in this thread.

Hey dont get me wrong, im one of them.

12 months ago i was looking for a new car. I test drove a bunch of different cars from skylines - Evos - WRXs - VE SS - Monaro - BA XRT6... Finally decided on a VX SS. Have spent nearly $60k on it in the last 12 months, but almost finished.

For that price, i could have got a really nice VE Clubsport etc. But to be honest, im much happier with the VX. As its so modified it has character. Almost every part has been upgraded and replaced, so its better than new. Im a big holden fan, but i never really liked the VE (Especially the HSVs with DRLs). Just seemed to big, too "soft" in the interior? (I feel like im going to break anything i touch inside). Plus spending that much on a standard holden (Even the HSVs) dont really stand out. Their just another car on the road. No real presence...

Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens with prices of good condition VT-VZs going forward. Might find they become a bit of a collectors car (Like the old monaros etc).

At the end of the day, my car makes me happy. I dont care if theres something technically faster or better...

[GenReaper]

At the end of the day, my car makes me happy. I dont care if theres something technically faster or better...

Too True.

Me i like the shape of my VY SS Wagon, way better than the VE ones IMO and thats all that counts to me.

Handles better looks better goes better, well it just is better.
Has heaps of room in the back too and can outpace my friends VE SSV up thru the hills without any effort.

Would i like a VE, maybe, do i want one No.

[feistl]

Me i like the shape of my VY SS Wagon


Oh yeah, that was the other model i was looking at. I wanted one in manual with a sunroof... But very very hard to find.

[VYSHSV8]

As far as I'm concerned the VE is far from the car it was built up to be and I prefer my VY any day. You've only gotta look at the amount of problems VE owners are having to realise it is not that good. The VE was a totally new model and with that comes a totally new range of problems that Holden knowingly lets their customers find and tell them about so they can improve it with the next model. Newer does not always mean better :(
I'll be waiting for at least VF or whatever they name it before I'd even consider buying one. :soap:

And vt/vx didnt have any probs lol
Noisy engines gearbox's playing up fuel tanks collapsing/compressing nah no probs in the early models.
Don't get me wrong I love them all and as said before have a vx a vy and a ve but as a daily driver and factory setup the ve out performs the earlier models

[feistl]

I guess the other point is with modifications so cheap and depreciation on commodores so bad, you can buy a 2-3 year old SS, spend $10k making it seriously quick/nice to drive, and still be $10k ahead of a new model.

Its not really fair to compare a stock VE with a modified VT-VZ. Plus holden design thier cars to last, be price competitive, easy to drive/maintain, be within EPA/ADR laws and leave them head room for the next model.

We then go and modify they to reach their full potential, without having to worry about fuel economy, or legalities (to a certain degree), warranty periods etc.

I also think that car manufactures world wide are starting to run out of ideas on how to improve their cars. I mean fuel economy and safety are big factors, but for the car enthusiast this isnt really important.

I look at my 2002 VX SS which has climate control, 8 way electric seats, automatic headlights, electric sunroof/windows/mirrors/alarm, leather interior, power steering, ABS, Traction Control, DVD, GPS etc etc. And i ask, what else do i possibly NEED?

I mean the only real features a brand new VE SS over mine is stability/corner braking control and Electoric Brake Distribution, (I dont really need these, i know how to drive).

When you compare say a VR SS to a VX SS, there was a massive change with lots of extra features you really use. But its got to a point where new cars just dont really have enough features to warrant spending say $30k over a older model.

[VL Executive]

Would i like a VE, maybe, do i want one No.

I still cant really get to like the VE model. I dont dislike VE's - but as you said. Do I want one, No not really.

Hard to explain really, for me, there is just somthing about them that does not get me hooked on them. Things like, blandness, too mainstream, too big and bulky, all look the same, go through my mind when I think VE. There's just nothing that makes me want to go buy and own one

I still prefer the pre VE models.

[v8dude78]

Cant go past the look of a VX Calais, sister has a VE Calais but still prefer the look of mine.

And love the fact mine goes a lot harder than a lot of VE's :)

[DAVZSS]

Well maybe those of us with the 6.0L VZ SS have the best of both models! I also have a VE Calais which i recently drove from melb to syd and back, I couldnt wait to get behind the wheel of the VZ when i got home it always puts a :) on my face.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

reading this thread im suprised anyone bought a ve....heavy...funny looking...dodgy...hmmm

[SV99]

The current generation Commodores and Falcons have no soul!


VXII 6Spd Manual clubby would be nice.

[CALDIR]

The current generation Commodores and Falcons have no soul!


VXII 6Spd Manual clubby would be nice.

Hi

Agreed!

regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

[huggies]

Hi

Agreed!

regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

ahh the good old days clubvx :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:
as seen on today tonight :hide: and abused by some dude driving a maxicab in the middle of no where :rofl:

[LooneyR8]

I would like to have an new VE R8.... BUT.......

My VT-R8 has some history and as said before soul.....

The first of the Clubsports with a Chev power plant
The first in the range to bear the R8 badge
A hell of alot lighter than the VE making power to weight a real consideration
Beautiful lines
Plenty of go fast goodies
Get the wishful look from passers by at least once a week

And having only done just over 155k km's still a baby and looking good...

[Wonky]

reading this thread im suprised anyone bought a ve....heavy...funny looking...dodgy...hmmm

Yeah. No taste Wonky has bought two. :doh: They do go bloody well though!! :D First ute I've ever loved!! :drool: :lol:

[macca_779]

The current generation Commodores and Falcons have no soul!


VXII 6Spd Manual clubby would be nice.

I reckon even the VT-VZ's have no soul compared to the earlier models. I had a VN SS when I first got my Senator. The VN was far more fun to drive and had shit loads more character than the VT. The VT is no doubt quicker but no where near as entertaining. Damm I miss that VN. You had to really drive the thing when pushing it hard but my god was it rewarding. Can't beat the sound of a 5L either, I don't give a fark what you've done to an LSx.

VE-VT is the same story all over again. VE's are just so easy to drive hard. So much so I find them a tad boring unless pushing 300+rwkw.

I agree with an above quote. My VT has more than enough toys to keep me happy (some things even VE Senator's don't have). So while I like the chassis of the VE from an engineering view in what it can do. I don't aspire to own one as frankly they aren't as quick with similar mods, aren't that good looking on the inside (E3 is hot though) and are boring as sin to throw around in stock form with their efficient suspension compliance but excessive body roll.

[SS Enforcer]

im selling my ve ssv to buy a vt r8. personal preferance, everyone has there own

I sold my VE ss to buy the Vy R8 but also considered a vt or vx R8 as well. If I was to sell the R8 it would be for a GTS coupe or similar not a VE.

cheers

[SS Enforcer]

I look at my 2002 VX SS which has climate control, 8 way electric seats, automatic headlights, electric sunroof/windows/mirrors/alarm, leather interior, power steering, ABS, Traction Control, DVD, GPS etc etc. And i ask, what else do i possibly NEED?

I mean the only real features a brand new VE SS over mine is stability/corner braking control and Electoric Brake Distribution, (I dont really need these, i know how to drive).

When you compare say a VR SS to a VX SS, there was a massive change with lots of extra features you really use. But its got to a point where new cars just dont really have enough features to warrant spending say $30k over a older model.

Very good points you make and very similar to ones I made to a workmate a few weeks ago. The stroker in mine now makes it very quick and somewhat of a sleeper. I had a guy in a VE with all the fruit trying to line me up for a run but I wouldn't bite except for a quick stab in 2nd which fried the rears easily. I got a laugh out of it as he kept with me in traffic and it was obvious he was having a close listen to it. :)

cheers

[dawkinsdisciple]

And vt/vx didnt have any probs lol
Noisy engines gearbox's playing up fuel tanks collapsing/compressing nah no probs in the early models.
Don't get me wrong I love them all and as said before have a vx a vy and a ve but as a daily driver and factory setup the ve out performs the earlier models

hah hah yep, try saying the VT-Z's were reliable saints and i could probably did up about 10 wheels and motor mags documenting power steering, brakes, no start, trim and various other issues. VE's had its issues too so hardly an issue to delineate them


Seems to be all the VT-VZ fanbios in this thread.

Hey dont get me wrong, im one of them.

12 months ago i was looking for a new car. I test drove a bunch of different cars from skylines - Evos - WRXs - VE SS - Monaro - BA XRT6... Finally decided on a VX SS. Have spent nearly $60k on it in the last 12 months, but almost finished.

For that price, i could have got a really nice VE Clubsport etc. But to be honest, im much happier with the VX. As its so modified it has character. Almost every part has been upgraded and replaced, so its better than new. Im a big holden fan, but i never really liked the VE (Especially the HSVs with DRLs). Just seemed to big, too "soft" in the interior? (I feel like im going to break anything i touch inside). Plus spending that much on a standard holden (Even the HSVs) dont really stand out. Their just another car on the road. No real presence...

Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens with prices of good condition VT-VZs going forward. Might find they become a bit of a collectors car (Like the old monaros etc).

At the end of the day, my car makes me happy. I dont care if theres something technically faster or better...

thats all that matters


im selling my ve ssv to buy a vt r8. personal preferance, everyone has there own

thats all that matters!

realistically the VE is a superior platform but it has its disadvantages (weight and bulk being the major too) but the VT-Z's are far from lightweights! so many seem to be viewing the VT-Z series with the rose tinted glasses of restrospect. i heard a great truth the other day - as time goes on, generally things tend to get better (health, socio-economics, technology etc) but many stil wallowing in some sort of sentimental misconception of the past think the opposite! the lense of sentimentality is not the most objective way to view something. the VT-Z's had more then their fair share of problems and were regularly panned by performance magazines and rated under the falcons for performance, ride, handling etc. aftermarkets a different story but the take home is that the 2000-06 commodores were dating faster as their end approached.

where the VE isn't perfect it still moves the commodore forward. not as much as the VR/S-VT/X maybe but still, its technically superior - tech and cars move forward like the changes nor not. if not enjoy what you've got . I can't help feel perhaps the OP is eperiencing a little inferiotiry complex? i used to get it all the time when i was modding my old V6 VN - whaddya wanna do that for, just spend it no a new car, nah thats pointless, just get a skyline etc etc... f*ck em! if you like your VT-Z keep it, enjoy it and stuff everyone else! for me it came down to a CV8 or a VE SSV/Calais. I made my decision and stand by it but when i see a nice CV8 getting down the road it still makes me wish i had room in the garage/wallet for a second car!

[DC347]

I have both and enjoy both. I agree that replacing a clapped LS1 with another LS1 would be kinda gay and a bit of a waste when LS3/L98's etc are so cheap. Sure LS1's are good but if forced to get a new engine then why wouldn't you up the anti for the few extra dollars? You would struggle to find anyone out there that has undertaken such an engine swap that isn't happier with the bigger motor in their VT-VZ. BTW, there are probably more mods readily available for VT-VZ then any other car ever made in OZ.

I agree. If my motor died tommorrow and I had to replace LS2/LS3 all the way. But whats happening now is you arrive at a shop with a low KM LS1 looking for some HP upgrades and the first thing that is said LS2/ LS3 upgrade.

[RRossi]

Would I be weird or get a life ban if I said I really wanted a VT R8 or GTS with a 5-5.7L Holden 8??

:hide: ??


RR

[A^K^T]

Would I be weird or get a life ban if I said I really wanted a VT R8 or GTS with a 5-5.7L Holden 8??

:hide: ??


RR

If you got a ban for that i would definitely be shown the door for wanting to be back behind the wheel of my 71 LC GTR .

[dawkinsdisciple]

Would I be weird or get a life ban if I said I really wanted a VT R8 or GTS with a 5-5.7L Holden 8??

:hide: ??


RR

one of my favourites in the VT-Z range was the last of the 5.7 holdens. STRONGLY considered getting either on of the 5.7l senators or GTS in manual but harder modding, thirstier and sick of bits falling of 10yo+ cars put me off it... especially considering how bloody cheap they are! if i had more cash and gumption to spend time with them i'd have leapt in

i reckon they'd pop up on a second car list for me in the future if it ever happened

[Super Snake]

I have my Series III Monaro, and a VESSV My10 ute. I love driving both of them.
If I feel like riding a lower, stiffer handling car, I drive the Monaro.
And the VE ute does have a better set up when it comes to the drive line.
I just wished that they were able to still have the Monaro as an option in the VE range. I thing that it would have been an awesome car.
And as far as reliability goes, the VE ute has been great.

[dawkinsdisciple]

I have my Series III Monaro, and a VESSV My10 ute. I love driving both of them.
If I feel like riding a lower, stiffer handling car, I drive the Monaro.
And the VE ute does have a better set up when it comes to the drive line.
I just wished that they were able to still have the Monaro as an option in the VE range. I thing that it would have been an awesome car.
And as far as reliability goes, the VE ute has been great.

yes yes yes... that was the big toss up for me - you've solved it by having both! how i wished they could have rammed the coupe60 through to some sort of production car... it would have been bye bye ss then.

[HARMSY]

It's a tough choice when you look at the possibilities of the l98etc while I love the LS1 and all it has to offer I will seriously look at swapping to an l98 or above, I'm shooting for the 300rwkw range and to get there with my ls1 would almost work out the same as an l98 conversion with minimal mods. Suppose it depends on your goals really......but I definately like my VY interior over the VE!!

[vyls1wa]

same old shit, been happing for years, and if that shop you went to has that attitude, i wouldnt let them go near my car. regardless what the car is, any shop worth its weight wont have a problem doing a car thats worth their time.

I remember when i was turbo charging my vs v6, and one popular shop south of perth wanted nothing to do with thinking i was insane, 12 months later after a few other places in perth started doing up the ecotech, he was all excited about it, by that stage it was already done, but it was interesting to see poeples changing attitudes.

Also, you ask anyone of the owners of these companies how many people walk in thier doors saying i want this and i want that when they really are'nt in a position to afford it to begin with, you almost have to sell yourself with a good quality shop when they take on a major job.

in regards to VT-VZ vs VE, WGAF, i love my VY, will i sell it when i jump into a E series, hell no, im keeping for what im building it up for, racing it. i dont think i could part with it for quite some time.

[Sluggy]

Would I be weird or get a life ban if I said I really wanted a VT R8 or GTS with a 5-5.7L Holden 8??

:hide: ??


RR

I'd be weird too then. I'd much prefer a Series I VT HSV to the Series II. The 5.7 Holden block in the VT was/is one of the best sounding motors I've ever heard. Much better power delivery than the first LS1's as well, much more beefier down low, although the top end is a bit strangled.

[feistl]

I reckon even the VT-VZ's have no soul compared to the earlier models. I had a VN SS when I first got my Senator.

I agree that the old school commodores were awesome, but they were a little basic inside. As i mentioned earlier, one you get to VT-VZ range, you get all the toys you WANT. The VE has extra toys that dont really matter that much.

Oh and ive never heard a LS based engine sound as good on idle as a 5L Aussie V8. Ive got a stroked LS1, and ill readily admit it doesn't have the presence of a REAL V8 :)

Im surprised how many people are backing the VT-VZs... I would have expected everyone to back VEs :)

[KPWISHN]

Oh and ive never heard a LS based engine sound as good on idle as a 5L Aussie V8. Ive got a stroked LS1, and ill readily admit it doesn't have the presence of a REAL V8 :)

Need more cubes then. :) I cannot wait to hear mine fire into life again. It's been 18 months or so since I heard my 427. What a blissful noise it makes too.

[PC12]

where the VE isn't perfect it still moves the commodore forward. not as much as the VR/S-VT/X maybe but still, its technically superior - tech and cars move forward like the changes nor not. if not enjoy what you've got . I can't help feel perhaps the OP is eperiencing a little inferiotiry complex? i used to get it all the time when i was modding my old V6 VN - whaddya wanna do that for, just spend it no a new car, nah thats pointless, just get a skyline etc etc... f*ck em! if you like your VT-Z keep it, enjoy it and stuff everyone else! for me it came down to a CV8 or a VE SSV/Calais. I made my decision and stand by it but when i see a nice CV8 getting down the road it still makes me wish i had room in the garage/wallet for a second car![/QUOTE]

Love my 06 VZ GTO Coupe. Still gets attention when she comes out of the garage. Might not be as good as the VE HSV's but it is all about what you want.

[Red CV8 R]

VE? No Coupe, No care! ;)

I love my V2 series III Monaro even though I rarely drive it. I bought it new and have always had other cars as daily drivers. I had a VE for a while and really didnt like it as a car, replaced it with a cheaper turbocharged VW. The VE always felt like a big cumbersome car and not a quick one at that. There were lots of little niggles that bugged me. The Monaro still feels big but much more lively and chuckable. Its a fair bit quicker but is modified, it was dead slow standard! Its been a very reliable car for me with most of the issues sorted before the Series III run.

However the VE is so much better as far as suspension ride goes. I would love to have the same level of ride comfort in the Monaro, without loosing the cars handling. That is my biggest criticism of the car. Still with its coupe form still appearing fresh despite its age, the Monaro just looks so sexy in my eyes! :bow:

[dawkinsdisciple]

Love my 06 VZ GTO Coupe. Still gets attention when she comes out of the garage. Might not be as good as the VE HSV's but it is all about what you want.

as i said before, its all about what you want, your preferences and stuff everyone else!

if i had to break down my favourite types of commodore i'd go for in my price range

VE SS/Calais - what i've got, i love the chunkiness, solidness & power and put it on some nice sweeping roads around here and it just gels perfectly...

CV8 series II-III and GTO of similar age - fantastic style, still sometimes wish i had one, but was a bit worried about getting close to the 10 year mark and whats happened in my old commodores as they've gotten there... also the profusion of A4's was a big block - i hate that thing with a passion, belonged in the bin by the time something as smooth and otherwise complete as the CV8 had arrived and otherwise marrs a great car.

Holden V8 VT's (spec. 5.7l) senators and GTS - if i was on a budget, the way i'd go. the comfort, the noise poise etc... really nice entry cruisers. again, the age thing put me off and the abundance of that damn A4. i'm just so sick of ageing cars and things constantly falling off/creaking/squeaking etc. so far the VE has been pretty good here...

i think too much can be made of the differences between the different models. it really has been done to death... though there is a lot of technical difference between models the similarities tend to be pretty overwhelming too - big RWD V8 with pretty well set up comfort/touring oriented suspension. really can be summed up as VE superior in most areas but still bigger and heavier though not hugely so and personally one area i think is a bit over-stated... it'd be good if they could head back to VT weight but even thats pretty chunky and everyone got used to that pretty quick over the VS. and i do love my IRS and A6!

[darthvader]

wat about people who arnt keen on the VE body shape. I am still absolutly in love with the Vu/VX shape, beautifal, smooth, and muscular!

[dawkinsdisciple]

see above;

as i said before, its all about what you want, your preferences and stuff everyone else!

likewise man, i really really love the shape of the VT senator/signature. so smooth, cohesive and with the coulsens, luxurious and comfortable... really was the standout of the rang followed closely by the Series I (for the stroker) and series II (because it was the fastest/meanest/most complete commodore) VT GTS'.

i was just sick of bits falling off old commodores. really really couldn't hack it anymore. i was considering a VT II GTS but when i saw one at a carshow tih 2 bits of missing trim it reminded me what it was - a 10 year old commodore. and i just didn't have the patience for that anymore... plus an L98 and 6 speed auto with all the bells for under $30k second hand sold me on the VE. plus i just love the shape... see statement 1!