wanted!!!! MP112 V's TVS1900 comparison

[Determin8r]

Hi all, I understand the MP112 for a stock 346ci is pretty awesome, but does anyone have a comparison for running the TVS1900 on a stock 346ci?
I just want one......... sorry, its a HSV thing.
The bottom end is standard LS1, the heads flowed for 700hp max. What i am interested to know though are the differences between torque n power from idle to 6800rpm. As well as fuel ecconomy.(what tha!!!). My Cluby R8 is an everyday drive so even tho i want all out grunt i would like ecconomy included in the overall package.

Oh yeah! what are the differences between 4th and 5th generation MP112.

your assistance with knowledge on this comparison will help me spend my money very soon.

Cheers guys....... and gals

[Tre-Cool]

my understanding is the 112 is 112cubic inches. 122 = 122 ci. 1900 Comes in slighly smaller than the 122 but is a 4 rotor lobe as apposed to the older 3 lobe design.

The 4 lobe rotor is there for more effeciant at producing boost, or less prone to heating the air as it compresses it.

If you were given a choice you would be silly to pass up the later model lobe design over the 3.

More heat/ higher intake temps = more prone to pre-detonation = less power.

[alian]

my understanding is the 112 is 112cubic inches. 122 = 122 ci. 1900 Comes in slighly smaller than the 122 but is a 4 rotor lobe as apposed to the older 3 lobe design.

The 4 lobe rotor is there for more effeciant at producing boost, or less prone to heating the air as it compresses it.

If you were given a choice you would be silly to pass up the later model lobe design over the 3.

More heat/ higher intake temps = more prone to pre-detonation = less power.

As above. there is talk of 10deg coller air temps between the old and the new. Then I suppose it is up to the dollar factor. I wouldnt pass up the newer blower over the old , Cooler air temp means = more power. I know of a car that went from a hh112 with 350rwkw to a new htv2300 and made something arround 440. same cam,same dyno. Not quite the comparason you were chasing but gives you an idea.
Cheers Ian

[Determin8r]

thanks for your replies guys.
my research thus far has been smaller the charger higher the boost therefore better responsiveness. So with the TVS1900 being more efficient with greater flow and male female screw design then it is the obvious choice.

I havent been able to confirm yet if the TVS1900 is a straight forward bolt on.

any thoughts here?

cheers

[Determin8r]

I cannot understand why the australian products are so expensive. The major U.S. companies using eaton screws have been doing research and development for longer than Aus and Ive found a $2000 discrepancy comparing our products with the U.S. equivalent. eg. magnuson.
Im currently waiting on quotes for importing... im not expecting suprises.
But i expect i should be saving approx $3000 by purchasing a U.S. equivalent, importing it, fitting it, then a flash tune.
then whatever costs for dyno and blue plate.

If your interested i will keep you informed.

cheers

[Ken]

Hi ...
4th Gen = M-series, 3 lobes, 60 deg pitch, no abraidable coating (rotors are powder-coated grey)
5th Gen = M-series, 3 lobes, 60 deg pitch, abraidable coated (rotors appear black)
5-1/2th Gen = H-series, 3 lobes, 69 deg pitch, abraidable coated (rotors appear black)
6th Gen = TVS (twin vorticies system), 4 lobes at 120 deg pitch

Back to back testing of H122 vs TVS1900 will typically result in 20 deg reduction in air temps & 30rwkw gain. TVS is also quieter and has less parasitic loss (belt load).

Note: None of the Eaton-based products are "male female screw design" ... they are all air-pumps, not compressors.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

THANKS for that KEN
so all in all no comparison :)

[Ken]

6th Gen = TVS (twin vorticies system), 4 lobes at 120 deg pitch


Sorry - typo.
6th Gen = TVS (twin vorticies system), 4 lobes at 160 deg pitch

[gmh308]

Note: None of the Eaton-based products are "male female screw design" ... they are all air-pumps, not compressors.

Interesting differentiation! ??? :)

[Ken]

-- An air pump does not have internal compression, it simply pumps more air into the manifold than the engine consumes naturally, therefore compression occurs in the manifold.

-- A twin-screw supercharger is a compressor; the air is squeezed within the decreasing cavity as it travels along the rotors, therefore creating compression within the supercharger.

There are advantages of each - there is no real "best" as it depends on the application, but for low/medium boost (sub 15psi) in street applications, I believe the TVS has the most advantages.

:teach:

[ls2 cruiser]

Ken, regarding the 20C less intake temp difference between TVS and HH 122, is that difference before or after the intercooler? Thanks Russ

[Ken]

Ken, regarding the 20C less intake temp difference between TVS and HH 122, is that difference before or after the intercooler? Thanks Russ

Both. Tested on durability/performance stand & in cars.

[gmh308]

-- An air pump does not have internal compression, it simply pumps more air into the manifold than the engine consumes naturally, therefore compression occurs in the manifold.

-- A twin-screw supercharger is a compressor; the air is squeezed within the decreasing cavity as it travels along the rotors, therefore creating compression within the supercharger.

There are advantages of each - there is no real "best" as it depends on the application, but for low/medium boost (sub 15psi) in street applications, I believe the TVS has the most advantages.

:teach:

Oki doki got it. :) So Roots style comes under the "compressor" classification. And they typically heat the air more from the heating the air during compression within the male/female cavity?

What did the gen VI Eaton rotor set really gain over the gen V and V & 1/2?

[Ken]

Oki doki got it. :) So Roots style comes under the "compressor" classification. And they typically heat the air more from the heating the air during compression within the male/female cavity?
What did the gen VI Eaton rotor set really gain over the gen V and V & 1/2?

Ummm ... No.
All Eaton are Roots and are air pumps. They do not have internal compression as the rotors are the same , just opposing pitch (left-hand/right-hand, not male-female).

Eaton/Roots (http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Automotive/ProductsandSolutions/Superchargers/TVS/index.htm)

Lysholm/twin-screw (http://www.opcon.se/index.asp?sPage=1&langID=2&cID=13)

The 6th generation 4-lobe profile is hugely more efficient - less parasitic loss, lower charge temps, less rotor distortion etc.

[2ajmanvell82]

Hey guys As Ken suggests the intake air temp is much better with the new 1900, I had my LS2 VE Maloo with blower cam and had the 5 1/2 gen HH122 harrop supercharger running near peak 11psi, I got interested in the 6 gen HTV1900 and sold my HH122, the new HTV produced the boost much sooner and a flatter boost curve, and dropped 20-25deg IAT's, was a heap quieter under normal running and under load but still had the nice sound of the supercharer, but the biggest note was the added instant low down power and pulled nice right through, produced more power with slightly less peak boost and safer IAT's, a straight back to back running one and straight to the other there is no comparison!

LS2, A6, std bottom end, VCM 6 cam and springs, x-force 1 3/4 headers dual 3" system with VCM dual fuel pump tank. Was an awesome combo!! Loved it and miss it!! HTV all the way!

here's my dyno comparison. 5 1/2 gen HH122 vs 6gen HTV1900 Harrops

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ajmanvell82/DSC04662.jpg

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

KEN I HAVE A QUESTION while your on the tvs subject
on the TVS sizeing chart site
it says that the 2300 is good for 7.8L or 475 ci
what is your experance with biger then 427 ci ?
i cant get a straight answer from harrop ?
i would like to use my 2300 on a 454 stroker ?

[Tre-Cool]

very similar power curve from when my 6lt runs the hh122 with meth injection vs without it.

[Ken]

KEN I HAVE A QUESTION while your on the tvs subject
on the TVS sizeing chart site
it says that the 2300 is good for 7.8L or 475 ci
what is your experance with biger then 427 ci ?
i cant get a straight answer from harrop ?
i would like to use my 2300 on a 454 stroker ?

It is a little open-end answer ... but in summary: A 454ci will be pushing the extreme limit of a 2300.

The longer answer ... It is VERY dependant on the engine combination. A mild street 454 will be good as long as you dont have expectations of 15psi. If <=10psi is sought, it will do okay all day long ... assuming the cam is not wild. Some "extra" things will need to be considered:
- 10PK front drive
- toothed belt rear drive
- Dual-80 throttle body :)

Also keep in mind that Harrop do not have LS7 manifolds in production (in case you are using LS7 heads). I think a manifold can be obtained by special order: $$$.

I had a HTV2300 on the 430ci (9.3:1 CR, 228/236 @ 115) in the GTO & consistantly squeezed 15psi from it.
I suspect the 454ci will be okay, but at the limit.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

It is a little open-end answer ... but in summary: A 454ci will be pushing the extreme limit of a 2300.

The longer answer ... It is VERY dependant on the engine combination. A mild street 454 will be good as long as you dont have expectations of 15psi. If <=10psi is sought, it will do okay all day long ... assuming the cam is not wild. Some "extra" things will need to be considered:
- 10PK front drive
- toothed belt rear drive
- Dual-80 throttle body :)

Also keep in mind that Harrop do not have LS7 manifolds in production (in case you are using LS7 heads). I think a manifold can be obtained by special order: $$$.

I had a HTV2300 on the 430ci (9.3:1 CR, 228/236 @ 115) in the GTO & consistantly squeezed 15psi from it.
I suspect the 454ci will be okay, but at the limit.

ok ken that clears it up a lot thanks
i was looking at forged lsx 454 with a mild cam and ls3 style heads on 10 psi
when my ls3 dies

[Determin8r]

Hi all,
thanks to all who have replied.
I have made progress regarding choice of supercharger.
I have purchased a magnuson TVS2300 designed for the 2004 GTO. I have been on the phone to the USA and emailing them for 15 days and finaly have resolve.
The product is being custom built and i wont take delivery for another 3wks.
my choice here reflects my thoughts on cooling efficiency. I plan on running a maximum of 8lb boost, (any more than this and the car will need a fuel delivery upgrade).
Higgins heads have now been fitted and this is where i have hit a mild snag... the exhaust ports are too big for my current exhaust. DOH!!!!!!!!!!! ... shoulda seen that one coming.... the car currently runs a Difilippo 1 5/8" 4 into 1 twin 2 1/2" system, which will now be replaced with a Difilippo 1 7/8" 4 into 1 twin 3".

a custom airbox will be made and air will be directed to the box via a splitter.
As the tvs2300 has a bigger volume over the tvs1900 the cars bonnet requires massaging for it to close.

Its easy to see how projects blow out as far as funds are concerned.

I will keep anyone posted on progress if they are interested.

Again, thanks for your thoughts as it got me asking the magnuson engineers all the right questions.
cheers guys

[Uwish]

Very nice mate! Well done.
Any reason why you didn't buy a Harrop one?

[brentonsav]

Very nice mate! Well done.
Any reason why you didn't buy a Harrop one?

i would suspect the couple grand difference in price...

[XUV]

I'm looking at going the 1900 way at sometime ,

but been thinking of just camming my XUV LS1 at the moment ,

which of the following cams would be blower friendly .

212/218 .522/.529 112
214/220 .559/.564 111.5 LSA
220/220 .581/.581 112

or would you suggest something different , nothing above 220 thou .