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nthnbeachesguy
31-10-2010, 06:35 PM
Saw this today, not sure of the impact it will have on Holden exports etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/bu...=1&nl=&emc=a25

Pontiac, 84, Dies of Indifference
By NICK BUNKLEY
DETROIT — Pontiac, the brand that invented the muscle car under its flamboyant engineer John Z. DeLorean, helped Burt Reynolds elude Sheriff Justice in “Smokey and the Bandit” and taught baby boomers to salivate over horsepower, but produced mostly forgettable cars for their children, will endure a lonely death on Sunday after about 40 million in sales.

It was 84 years old. The cause of death was in dispute. Fans said Pontiac’s wounds were self-inflicted, while General Motors blamed a terminal illness contracted during last year’s bankruptcy. Pontiac built its last car nearly a year ago, but the official end was set for Oct. 31, when G.M.’s agreements with Pontiac dealers expire.

“They were C.P.R.-ing a corpse for a long time,” said Larry Kummer, a retired graphic artist who has owned more than two dozen Pontiacs and runs the Web site PontiacRegistry.com.

The G.M. brand that was advertised for “driving excitement,” Pontiac brought Americans the Bonneville, GTO, Firebird and other venerable nameplates. Sportier than a Chevrolet but less uppity than an Oldsmobile or Buick, the best Pontiacs, recognizable by their split grille and red arrowhead emblem in the middle, were stylish yet affordable cars with big, macho engines.

Its biggest triumph was the GTO, developed by Mr. DeLorean, the brand’s rebellious chief engineer, in violation of a G.M. policy dictating the maximum size of a car’s engine. The GTO was a hit, and the age of the muscle car had begun.

“When the muscle-car era was in its heyday, Pontiac was king,” said Frederick Perrine, a dealer in Cranbury, N.J., whose family sold Pontiacs since the brand’s founding. “It put us through school. We were the house on the block that had the swimming pool growing up.”

Ed Dieffenbach, a retired police officer, recalls admiring Pontiacs in magazines as a boy but he never bought one. But with the brand nearing death, he drove more than 1,100 miles round trip last week from his home near Miami to the Lee Pontiac GMC dealership in Florida’s panhandle to trade in his Chevrolet Silverado truck for one of the last new Solstice two-seater coupes available anywhere in the country.

“I always wanted a hot rod, but never got around to it, so this is it,” Mr. Dieffenbach, 62, said after getting his new car home. “My wife sat in it last night and said, ‘Oh my Lord, wow.’ ”

For most of the 1960s, Pontiac ranked third in sales behind Chevy and Ford — a position now held by Toyota.

But in the decades since, Pontiac’s edge and high-powered image wore off. Repeated efforts in the 1990s and 2000s to revive the brand failed. Drivers too young to remember the GTO came to associate Pontiac with models like the DustBuster-shaped Trans Sport minivan or the Aztek, a bloated-looking crossover widely regarded as one of the ugliest vehicles of all time.

By early 2009, Pontiac had fallen to 12th place in the United States market, and its top-selling model was the G6, a sedan commonly found on car-rental lots.

Pontiac, named for the Michigan city where the company started and an 18th-century Ottawa Indian chief, found itself on the wrong end of G.M.’s government-aided bankruptcy restructuring.

“They had a lot of glory years, but from the ’70s on, Pontiac just couldn’t meet the bar,” Mr. Kummer said. “It was always living in the past.”

For the most part, Pontiac’s final months generated no more excitement than its last few decades did. G.M. said dealers had fewer than 125 new Pontiacs in stock at the end of August, mostly heavily discounted G6’s, but only eight of them were reported sold in September.

“You hate to see them go, but they were floundering and couldn’t find their place in the market,” said Tim Dye, who owns 21 Pontiacs from various eras and a huge collection of Pontiac memorabilia — started with a bottle of GTO cologne from his uncle — that he had assembled over more than 30 years.

Mr. Dye’s home in Oklahoma, along with two buildings on his property, are filled with thousands of items from Pontiac’s past, including showroom brochures, advertising posters, model cars, pencils, ashtrays and matchbooks. Now that Pontiac is gone, Mr. Dye plans to turn his collection into a museum in Pontiac, Ill., a city on Route 66.

“I can’t think of anything better to do than just visit with people about Pontiac every day,” he said.

The Pontiac Motor Division was born at G.M. in 1926 as a single model under the Oakland brand, but its roots date to the 1890s, when horse-drawn carriage-making was a big industry in Pontiac, 25 miles northwest of Detroit. The Pontiac Spring and Wagon Works started building automobiles in 1907, before merging with the nearby Oakland Motor Car Company, which was then bought by G.M. in 1909.

G.M.’s first Pontiac was an $825 model known as the “Chief of the Sixes” for its 6-cylinder engine. It sold so well that G.M. shut down Oakland to focus on Pontiacs.

Pontiac became known as a conservative brand, building stodgy cars for grandmothers, until its general manager in the late 1950s, Semon Knudsen, sought a hipper image and much younger buyer. Mr. Knudsen, the son of a former G.M. president and a fan of auto racing, unveiled Pontiac’s “wide-track” design, which improved the cars’ handling by pushing the wheels five inches farther apart.

Mr. Knudsen, known as Bunkie, said the change kept the wider-bodied 1959 Pontiacs from resembling “a football player wearing ballet slippers.” The style was distinctive, and Pontiac’s frequent wins on the racetrack in that era helped sales soar.

No innovation did as much for Pontiac’s high-performance image as the GTO, whose glory days were from 1964 to 1974. The original GTO’s 389 cubic-inch engine was larger than G.M. allowed in a car of that size, but Pontiac executives got around that rule by offering it as an upgrade package to an existing model, the Tempest, and no one at the corporate level was aware of the option before it went into production and dealers began clamoring for more.

“We got 5,000 of them out into the marketplace before we got around to telling the corporation what we were doing,” said Jim Wangers, a Pontiac ad executive who worked with Mr. DeLorean to create the GTO, short for Gran Turismo Omologato.

Mr. Wangers, who was born the same year as Pontiac and never thought he would outlive it, recalls the time that the German luxury carmaker BMW sent a team of engineers, designers and marketers to meet with Mr. DeLorean’s team and study how the brand did so well.

But Pontiac sales peaked in 1973, when 920,000 were sold, and the ride was mostly downhilll after that. Pontiac fans lament that the brand finally got a few worthy models in its final years — the G8 full-size sedan and the Solstice sports car — but by then it was too far gone.

Gary Lee Jr., an owner of the dealership that sold Mr. Dieffenbach his Solstice this week, remembers the sadness of losing Oldsmobile when G.M. killed that brand in 2004. But with Pontiac, he has just been eager to move on. Signs for Pontiac at his dealership had long been removed, and he said, thankfully, he had no more new Pontiacs to unload.

“It was a great line,” Mr. Lee said, “while it lasted.”

BLACKVE
31-10-2010, 06:36 PM
Saw this today, not sure of the impact it will have on Holden exports etc.


Sad to see a name die, but holdens problem will be the strong aust dollar

Zembonez
01-11-2010, 04:41 AM
I live in Texas. All of the Pontiac dealerships have been shuttered for months. Sad to see, but GM has done a terrible job of marketing Pontiac here in the states over the last 10 years... so it wasn't a total surprise.

We've lost several GM brands here. Saturn, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile are all gone. Chrysler shuttered Plymouth and Ford has now shut down Mercury. The auto industry is in a state of repair here.

No worry here. I'll keep my GMC V8 powered pickup!

keith reed
01-11-2010, 08:09 AM
I think that some of the American auto woes can be put down to their refusal to make right hand drive cars. There are quite a few countries that still drive on the left hand side of the road. Japan, England, Australia, New Zealand. Surely they could have sold quite a few cars to these countries. The cost of changing a car from left to right hand drive is prohibitive and restricted to a few cars.
In Pontiacs case they stopped making cars that were exciting and little more than Chevrolet clones. The Camaro and Firebird are an example though having said that I would have preferred a 1988 -1991 350 cubic inch Firebird to a similar Camaro.
A few years ago Hot Rod magazine in conjunction with G.M. put a 7 litre Corvette motor with a cam in it into a Pontiac Solstice. They spent a lot of time reducing the weight of the Solstice and made a car that would run in the 10's. They did not say how much it cost other than to say it was expensive. Not saying it would have been profitable to make such a car but surely they could have done better than they did.

KrisR
01-11-2010, 09:00 AM
Some say Pontiac died when they killed off the pure Pontiac engine back in 79. I tend to agree.

VX-300
01-11-2010, 09:27 AM
When was the last car actually built by Pontiac that was not just a rebadged something else?

Toddler78
01-11-2010, 10:39 AM
something my boss that lived in the states said they were refered to as

Poor Old Nigger Thinks Its A Cadilac

not something hleping with the image

planetdavo
01-11-2010, 06:40 PM
It's not at all hard to see why the US manufacturers have been in strife, what with so many brands...:confused:
It's simply a money sucking nightmare having to spend sooooooo much money often advertising virtually the same cars across different brands.
Look at how the Euro's and the Asians do business. Maybe 3 brands at most, and all fairly different to each other, sharing only platforms, rather than US style top hat sharing too.
That exact same thinking failed dismally in Australia. Remember the...
Pintara/Corsair. :spew:
Camry/Apollo. :spew:
Corolla/Nova. :spew:
Falcon ute/Nissan ute. :spew:
Commodore/Lexcen. half a :spew:

Space Pope
01-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Pontiac needed to go...never did anything in the way of a true drivers car but at least pushed out some interesting beasties. Sales sucked and the G8 was never going to save it after the market tanked started to slide at the end of 2008.

At the end of the day , GM has 'performance' orientated product in Corvette, Chev and Cadillac brands.....those are 'forever' brands as far is GM was concerned. Pontiac was already on it's way to hell, no point throwing good money after bad.

Corvette and Cadillac makes some pretty classy kit out there for the money, Chev have the penny dreadful nasty budget side covered with the Camaro - no need for Pontiac to hang around despite being considered 'GM's performance marque'.

Biggest shock is that Buick survived??...how is that just??...Show me a Buick worth owning??

ssberlina
02-11-2010, 08:13 AM
Some say Pontiac died when they killed off the pure Pontiac engine back in 79. I tend to agree.

I agree that is why I just bought one.

As much as I like pontiac they killed themsleves with some very very ugly cars.

1979 pontiac 400ci 4 speed Trans Am W72

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh169/ssberlina/Trans%20am/DSC05829.jpg

The last decent Pontiac engine (Would have been even better without all the pollution gear on it though)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh169/ssberlina/Trans%20am/1.jpg

V-Car
02-11-2010, 09:06 AM
Some people in the US are now saying that the G8 GXP could be the most collectable Pontiac.

Quote:
"Much of the talk about Pontiac's demise over the past weekend centered on the GTO and Firebird, hot performance models whose glory days were decades ago.

However, not a word was mentioned on TV or radio reports about a 2009 Pontiac that might be the most collectable of all the Pontiacs ever produced during the brand's 84-year history.

The car is the rear-drive G8 GXP sedan.

From this guy's corner, I believe the G8, the over-the-top G8 GXP, and a few future rwd models would have turned Pontiac's fortunes around if the brand had not been axed.

While running through various Web sites over the weekend, I noticed a headline: “10 orphaned cars to drive before you die.” The story appears at www.caranddriver.com.

Among the vehicles featured are the DeTomaso Pantera, Plymouth Superbird, Sunbeam Tiger, Tucker sedan and others. At the top of the list is the G8 GXP. The story focuses on orphaned vehicles produced after 1944 that suffered the indignity of being abandoned.

The Web site called the demise of the G8 GXP “the biggest tragedy of the past decade.” The GXP arrived on dealer lots just months before the brand was axed."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20101101/BLOG06/101109979/-1#ixzz144hIOOkr

V-Car
02-11-2010, 09:16 AM
they killed themsleves with some very very ugly cars.

No offense ssberlina, but you then bought a 2nd gen????
Im afraid IMHO they are right up there with the Aztek.
An early GTO or any 1st gen, different story. :bow:

brentonsav
02-11-2010, 09:16 AM
our commodore would have been fantastic for them but the horse had bolted before it our gem landed.

it certainly has some following in the states, and rightly so!

ssberlina
02-11-2010, 12:44 PM
No offense ssberlina, but you then bought a 2nd gen????
Im afraid IMHO they are right up there with the Aztek.
An early GTO or any 1st gen, different story. :bow:

That is a matter of opinion. I personally love the second gen with the t-tops and the big cube engines. Never really liked the second gen camaros though as the front is a bit ugly but the pontiacs are great and certainly turn heads. In fact I have never driven a car that has had more positive comments and that includes my current C63 and my previous jag, monaro, a series of commodores, statesmans, utes and toranas.

IMHO you can keep the original GTO and the third gen. The GTO is too boxy for me and the third gen just got uglier and uglier. I dont mind the first gen firebirds though. :)

Mikey
03-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Biggest shock is that Buick survived??...how is that just??...Show me a Buick worth owning??Buick survived because the brand has made massive inroads into the Chinese market. Buick is considered in China as a symbol of automotive strength the same as it once was in America and even here (just like being run over by a Buick). If it was not for Buicks good fortune in China then it too may have not been so lucky either.

Cheers Mikey