Holden Epica..... WTF !?!?!

[notorious_benny]

I work at a hosptital and use fleet cars once a week to drive to a 'remote' site for work.

My trip is a whole 280km round trip, but includes 20 kays of gravel roads, the rest is proper back country secondary roads.

We used to have either VE's or BF's to choose from and the trip was always a non event. Then we downgraded to Camry's, I was very dissapointed as the Camry is ...... well its a Camry!!

Well we have a new low light in the fleet .... a nasty, grey little bas^%d of a car called a Holden Epica. It is in all honesty the worst car I have driven in years! Its is completely gutless, the driving position is simply horrible, the steering is vague, the car wanders over the road and requires more concentration than it should take to keep it pointed down the middle of the road.

Serioulsy where did Holden source this car from?? It feels like driving an old Hyundai Sonata!!

I have put in a request for a camry next week!! Never thought I would do that ... if they cant give me a camry I have requested a corolla as my second choice!!!

Sorry for the rant, but in 2010 surely Holden can source a car that drives like its from 2010 .......... they make a great car in the Commodore and then heap drivel like this on their medium car customers .... WTF!!

Rant over:soap:

[VYSS11]

is the epica built by dawoo.....

[GODSMACK]

I suppose that's why the Epica sold so well....

[Marco]

Do they even sell this POS anymore? I haven't seen one on a dealer lot for months and there wasn't one on the Holden stand at the Motor Show either.

[iloveholden]

The Holden Epica is still probably the worst new car ive ever driven!

[VYSS11]

how may did holden sell.... 10, i have not seen any down my way

[Cmycv8]

Try the Barina.

Holden had given me a brand new (plastic still on seats) Barina as they no other loan cars unavailable. Auto, 1.3 litre buzz box that just annoyed me to no end. I'm 5"10 and I struggled to squeeze in to the car. My left knee was hard against the plastic console as it had no where else to go. Pedals we so far in to the fire wall iChat the seat as far forward as I could get, problem is that the steering colum was not adjustable soothe steering wheel was up my nose...I looked like an old granny in a silver looking rat of a car.

Economy was terrible for a small car, the A4 sized engine could not handle a hill let alone a flat piece of road with AC turned on. If you drove around long enough turning the AC off was like hitting the turbo button from the Knight Rider days. I used 30 litres in 2 days, my V8 has better fuel efficiency than this thing.

Why sell such and average car.

[GODSMACK]

Seems to me like you were expecting more performance from this 1.3L fuel injected beast...

May suit buyers in the market for a i20, Fiesta etc..

[Cmycv8]

Seems to me like you were expecting more performance from this 1.3L fuel injected beast...

May suit buyers in the market for a i20, Fiesta etc..

My 1985 1.3 Corolla would trounce this thing. The breaks were that heavy I struggled to stop at the best of times. I can see the point of these small run abouts but the price they charge doesn't seem worth it.

1.3 litres of pure awesomeness, should have taken it to the drags.

[GODSMACK]

1.3 litres of pure awesomeness, should have taken it to the drags.



Barina Vs Epica... Could go either way....

[notorious_benny]

I am 6'2 and my wife owns a Fiesta zetec. I would rate it well above this pos epica for dynamic ability and comfort. I drive it around a fair bit.


I am just amazed that anyone would choose to buy an Epica over the many other quality mid sized cars that are available.

Obviously the bean counters at work got it for a ridiculous price and that's why it's in our fleet.

[The-V8-Power]

The sooner they replace this with the new Epsilon II based mid sizer the better. This is the only car stopping Holden from selling another 1000-2000 cars a month since it is a pretty epic fail of a car to put it nicely.

[moconn20]

Do they even sell this POS anymore? I haven't seen one on a dealer lot for months and there wasn't one on the Holden stand at the Motor Show either.

no it was canned over 12 months ago but they still have some "new" stock they are trying to move. up untill 3 months ago they still had "deals" on epicas on the holden enewsletter.

[Black AH CDX]

Try the Barina.

Holden had given me a brand new (plastic still on seats) Barina as they no other loan cars unavailable. Auto, 1.3 litre buzz box that just annoyed me to no end. I'm 5"10 and I struggled to squeeze in to the car. My left knee was hard against the plastic console as it had no where else to go. Pedals we so far in to the fire wall iChat the seat as far forward as I could get, problem is that the steering colum was not adjustable soothe steering wheel was up my nose...I looked like an old granny in a silver looking rat of a car.

Economy was terrible for a small car, the A4 sized engine could not handle a hill let alone a flat piece of road with AC turned on. If you drove around long enough turning the AC off was like hitting the turbo button from the Knight Rider days. I used 30 litres in 2 days, my V8 has better fuel efficiency than this thing.

Why sell such and average car.


You'll be even more disappointed to discover the Barina is in fact a 1.6

[dawkinsdisciple]

Serioulsy where did Holden source this car from?? It feels like driving an old Hyundai Sonata!!



hah hilarious, so close... daewoo lacetti? no that was that the barina sedan? i think it was based on the leganza or some other pretty lame fridgmobile...

it must have been a really sad car - i just had a brand new toyota corolla for 10 days in NZ and it really was a pretty poorly put together and driving car, reminded me a lot of my mates 05 camry. for something to make you wish for those appliances, the epica really must be an epic fail of a drivers car. i'm sure it has some redeeming features...

[Jac001]

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/51014/holden-epica-replacement-confirmed-new-colorado-on-the-way

The unloved Epica will be replaced by an all-new vehicle, which will be designed and engineered in the USA and built in South Korea. Previous rumours of a Buick or Opel-based replacement appear to be unfounded. According to Holden the Epica's successor has yet to make its public debut.

The mid-size sedan will be built atop GM's Epsilon II platform, which underpins the Opel Insignia as well as the Buick Lacrosse – one of which was recently spotted undergoing on-road trials in Melbourne.

Chevrolet's upcoming 2012 Malibu is expected to be officially unveiled at the 2011 Detroit auto show next January, and is the most likely candidate for an Epica replacement.

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From the Chevy website the the malibu come with a 2.4L 4 cyl which has 169hp (126kw) and 160lb-ft (216Nm) weighing 1560kg

When compared to the Camry, power and torque are simiilar (117kw, 218Nm but the camry is significantly lighter (1415kg).

The 3L SIDI V6 from the commy would make a nice replacement (190kw/ 290Nm) ;)

Addition: A 3.6L V6 can be optioned on the higher spec malibu models. My mistake.

[ATOMICSS]

I've never driven one, but knew they must be bad after seeing a near brand new top of the range Epica CDXi, or whatever it is, with leather and light hail damage sell for $5500 at one of the Perth hail auctions about 3 months ago. At the same auction near new Corollas/ Mazda 3s etc with similar damage were going for $12 - $14k.

[planetdavo]

Epica sells around 200 per month. Similar to the ZC Vectra it replaced, except Holden make money on Epica, rather than lose vast amounts per car like Vectra.
Car is a Camry competitor for the grey army. It would never appeal to enthusiasts.
PS: TK Barina has a 1.6, based on the Family 1 engine that came out in the SB Barina GSi in the mid 90's.

[redvxr8clubby]

He wouldn't have been talking about a Barina Spark - 1.2 litres of raw quivering power?

[notorious_benny]

Well take it from a bloke that has to drive a 'grey army' car once a week ........ the Camry is my pick for GNCOTY (Grey Nomad Car of the Year)

I coudnt give two hoots if the car is profitable or not ..... the Epicfail is still a complete pile or arse and isnt even in the same league as a Camry .....

ohh s*&t I just gave praise to a Camry!!! I will just go and jump out the window now :1peek:

[planetdavo]

Well take it from a bloke that has to drive a 'grey army' car once a week ........ the Camry is my pick for GNCOTY (Grey Nomad Car of the Year)

I coudnt give two hoots if the car is profitable or not ..... the Epicfail is still a complete pile or arse and isnt even in the same league as a Camry .....

ohh s*&t I just gave praise to a Camry!!! I will just go and jump out the window now :1peek:

The grey army often like the Epica because they are actually a rather refined vehicle, with particularly well suppressed NVH in the petrol models and a comfortable, quiet ride. (note I don't use "sporty") Diesel models have a few more vibes but get along better, with the same engine and auto as the Cruze.
The steering is rather vague, as certain parts of the world want their steering utterly devoid of any feel at all for some reason.

[notorious_benny]

Refined :lmao:

You are kidding right? The one we have at work is the petrol model and refined it is not!!

Your dead right about the steering though, it is incredibly vague, to the point where it would be dangerous on a busy dual carriageway if the driver is not being 100% vigilant.

.... but refined? ... I mean really :lmao:

[llucie]

I have an old friend (72 years old) who has an Epica (new pensioner car) he traded his Toyota Avalon (old pensioner car) in on the Epica - I say pensioner cars as I have never seen anyone under 65 driving one - always the old bloke with the bowlers hat on the parcel shelf tootling along at about 20km under the speed limit .

[LowVp]

epica i think is just a modern day camira

[OMR346]

The grey army often like the Epica because they are actually a rather refined vehicleCompared to what, a Datsun 120B???

[planetdavo]

Refined :lmao:

You are kidding right? The one we have at work is the petrol model and refined it is not!!

Your dead right about the steering though, it is incredibly vague, to the point where it would be dangerous on a busy dual carriageway if the driver is not being 100% vigilant.

.... but refined? ... I mean really :lmao:

C'mon benny, you need to separate "refined" from what you are thinking...:teach:
Yes the petrol ones are very quiet in normal driving situations, with minimal cabin noise intrusion from the driveline,suspension, wind, tyre roar etc. A number of reviews have also mentioned this.
I had a fair bit of experience with both drivelines a couple of years back as company cars, with occasional "refresher" drives since I've had other models, and the claim stands.
You get used to them, just like people get used to any car. Whether most people would buy one though, especially on here? Refer the grey army call. We have over 30 brands in Australia, so people buy all sorts of sh!t. :yup:

[VX-300]

The steering is rather vague, as certain parts of the world want their steering utterly devoid of any feel at all for some reason.

Ahh yes they do have more than a few vague drivers over there.
So following your logic the headlights wouldn't be round either then?

[planetdavo]

Compared to what, a Datsun 120B???

Compared to VZ SSZ's...

[planetdavo]

So following your logic the headlights wouldn't be round either then?

Your logic appears to be controlled by excessive beer tonight.
WTF? :confused:

[redvxr8clubby]

Round headlights, reminds me of my '65 Isuzu Bellet - replaced the 37.5 watt inners with 100 Watt aircraft landing lights.

[steve_t]

The mid-size sedan will be built atop GM's Epsilon II platform, which underpins the Opel Insignia as well as the Buick Lacrosse – one of which was recently spotted undergoing on-road trials in Melbourne.


2011 Holden Insignia would be quite cool :goodjob:

[notorious_benny]

[QUOTE=planetdavo;1812083] A number of reviews have also mentioned this.
QUOTE]

Even the most mangy dog gets thrown a bone from time to time.....

[Martin_D]

Its a Daewoo Tosca for those that want to know
The diesel can be tuned for some stout power and torque :)

[falcom]

Holden need to get rid of the Epica now as it is damaging Holden's image.

They should bring the Insignia in to replace it. I know the Insignia will be more expensive but with the high Australian dollar it should come in at a reasonable price.

I for one would buy one as it is the best looking GM car out there at the moment bar none.

[BNGTO]

Now that the Euro is a bit more affordable might be time for Holden to go back to he Opels; they cab lose ground on Ford badly in that segment as try are using a lot of stuff ex Europe Which generally trumps the Korean stuff. Thing is was a Australians up at GMDAT at that time and thy probably used Australia as part of the business case for the whole lineup; and to be fair they took the statesman up there (swb large car doesn't work in korea)

Sold poorly in korea too btw

[planetdavo]

Holden need to get rid of the Epica now as it is damaging Holden's image.

They should bring the Insignia in to replace it. I know the Insignia will be more expensive but with the high Australian dollar it should come in at a reasonable price.

I for one would buy one as it is the best looking GM car out there at the moment bar none.

One could argue that the reliability and resale value of many Commodore models damage Holden's image far more...:hide:
Anyhow, the ONLY chance Insignia has of coming is as part of the "premium only" range of Opel's coming within a couple of years. Insignia will fail as dismally as ZC Vectra (the car this replaced) if Holden try to compete at the "affordable" end of the segment. Ford aren't doing that flash with the Mondeo either, for exactly the same reasons Holden discovered.

[OMR346]

Compared to VZ SSZ's...

Yea, becuase i can see the refinment there lol

You are right though. The "grey army", as they have been referred to so much, do love shit like that. Although i still dont think any other car manufacterer can come close to the all mighty Corolla, for the grey army.

[CLUBRED]

The one we have at work I thought was pretty good for what it is - still wouldn't buy one myself though.

[alian]

Try the Barina.

I'm 5"10 and I struggled to squeeze in to the car. My left knee was hard against the plastic console as it had no where else to go.
Economy was terrible for a small car, my V8 has better fuel efficiency than this thing.

Why sell such and average car.

I dont understand, I am 6'3" and have no problem at all with getting in etc. 8 months ago we bought a new barina as a third car (run around park anywhere car) . We love it. 7 to 8l per 100. dont get me wrong, its no V8, but we have them aswell. We are very happry with it. It is only a 13k priced car!!
Ian.

[lukey73]

If they brought out the Malibu I would be inline to buy one, we had one for 2 weeks in the USA and it was great. Heaps of leg room for 4 people and very comfortable to drive even with a boot load of luggage.

We had the 24.lt 4 cyl, wasnt the most powerful engine but behind a 6 speed Auto certainly got going ok. We got the LTZ which had Leather / Tyre pressure monitor / trip computer and Sunroof, we were getting around 24-25 mpg with 2 adults / 2 kids and the boot jammed full of luggage, was very quite comfortable car to drive.

I was thinking over there how much of a nice car Malibu would over the Epica, hopefully someone at Holden reads this thread and takes note :)

[vx_clubby]

Its a Daewoo Tosca for those that want to know
The diesel can be tuned for some stout power and torque :)

Martin speaks the truth, Im over in Korea atm working at Daewoo, and there are 1000's around, never been in one but they gave GM Daewoo a bad name, so much so they built a new car now and havent associatted the name Daewoo with it lol. Being scared people would think it was the same and not sell.

Some cars to watch out for are Kia's, they have some nice looking new cars and the new Hyundai Sonata, very nice looking in that size of cars, I dare say if they get them over to Aust, they will take alot of sales from Holden. May even destroy us if the Tariffs are right.
Saying that I have never been in one, they might drive terrible.

[Jac001]

If they brought out the Malibu I would be inline to buy one, we had one for 2 weeks in the USA and it was great. Heaps of leg room for 4 people and very comfortable to drive even with a boot load of luggage.

We had the 24.lt 4 cyl, wasnt the most powerful engine but behind a 6 speed Auto certainly got going ok. We got the LTZ which had Leather / Tyre pressure monitor / trip computer and Sunroof, we were getting around 24-25 mpg with 2 adults / 2 kids and the boot jammed full of luggage, was very quite comfortable car to drive.

I was thinking over there how much of a nice car Malibu would over the Epica, hopefully someone at Holden reads this thread and takes note :)

From the article i posted above, the next epica and malibu will be the same car, and it will be based on the same platform as the Insignia and Lecross.