DRIVEN: FPV GT S/C 335 Auto

[10sec_rx7]

heres the graph from one of WA's ford tuners.. one of his mates called BS on the 328rwkw over here and was rather shocked when it ran 330 over there...

http://twitpic.com/35r0a5

[macca_779]

Of course its bloody not.
Its 335kw at the crankshaft.....
Unless of course its a new flux capacitor powered zero loss driveline.

Using the old Moroso calculator -
4000lb car, 112mph, gives a power output of - 450hp at the crank
Strangely enough thats 335kw...at the crank
335kw cars - like say an AMG C63 - all dyno up around 280rwkw
So...thats what its got. No more, no less :)

EDIT: From a guy in Adelaide just yesterday -
"Well last night we put my uncles "virginal" GT335 on to a mainline dyno.....
Stock as rock with just over 2000kms on the odo, it pulled a best of 288rwkws and boost peaked at 5.67psi...."

The reason I said it certainly isn't putting 330rwkw to the ground is we have heard of at least two examples now put down those numbers on reputable machines. The one I drove didn't feel like it that is all.

[10sec_rx7]

if its only going to 5.6psi boost id be calling FPV and asking where his other 3psi is.. as all the others are up over 8.5psi..

[Evman]

Martin mentions the boost didn't even reach 6psi, but (from memory) the CHE run car got closer to 8psi. What's the deal there then?

[Martin_D]

Desired boost is derived from Manifold Charge Temperature. The hotter the inlet gets the more boost is commanded to stop the engine laying over. Low boost readings are generally from 'cold setup' dyno runs :)

[Evman]

Cool thanks for the quick explanation Martin. Have you run one hot to see how the increase in boost affects the power output?

[10sec_rx7]

whos going to let a car sit for 4 hours with the fan blowing before doing a dyno run? LOL

by the time you get half way through a pull the air temps will be sky high again anyway and if you did more than 1 pull then everything would be red hot and give the higher boost any way so sounds a little fishy to me.. :jester:

BTW the boost peaked at 8.5 psi on every pull we did even after letting it "cool" for 30min with the fans in the room going flat out but the power went down to 320rwkw after that..

[Martin_D]

Cool thanks for the quick explanation Martin. Have you run one hot to see how the increase in boost affects the power output?

Evman the concept of changing desired boost with calculated manifold charge temperature is something Ford have lots of experience with. Every XR6T has done it since day dot. The real world effect is that engine output stays as close to possible as the rated power regardless of temperature. Of course its not perfect...but its a good idea, and also - logically - explains the variances seen in boost pressure on these cars :)

[Evman]

Well until someone comes out with data to show otherwise Martin, I think a lot of people are going to just say they make 288rwkw at 5.67psi, and 320+rwkw at 8.5psi.

[Martin_D]

Fair enough too :)

[duke5700]

112mph is 112mph whether it reads 330rwkw or 280rwkw.. Some bolt on VE packages are running that so to say it is a little underwhelming at this point in time is probably a fair statement.

[Martin_D]

112mph is 112mph whether it reads 330rwkw or 280rwkw..

Thats the entire point :)

[bouka]

No such thing as 'Torque Tags' that was a xr6turbo forum term from 2002 :)
There is no gear based torque limiting that I can see in the software, and torque management doesnt look to be that aggressive for straight line 400m style stuff :)
Just normal spark shift modulation and other little goodies that Macca noticed
Remember its a 5 litre engine with just over 5 pounds of boost, its not going to rip your head off....

Very interesting and thanks for the input. Having driven both the Miami and the F6, it felt more intrusive in the 335 Miami powered car.

Could it be something else that makes it feel like this? Upgraded clutch pacs or something else in the beefed up auto? The charectaristics of the motor?

This was certainly, for me, a frustration with the F6 but the power delivery was more overwhelming (off on boost). In the GT, with it's more linear delivery, it really became obvious and somewhat frustrating.

They have also trapped 114mph in the 335 GT and there is some saying it will go 116+. Time will tell I suppose. All speculation and guess work at the moment.

I for one appreciate your input Martin so please feel free to share your knowledge and experience with this motor.

[10sec_rx7]

yeh because sticking a jerno in a car that hes had for a few hours and tell him to drive to its best is easy.. i think it was 113.99 mph as well..

[bouka]

yeh because sticking a jerno in a car that hes had for a few hours and tell him to drive to its best is easy.. i think it was 113.99 mph as well..

Very true.

[Martin_D]

This was certainly, for me, a frustration with the F6 but the power delivery was more overwhelming (off on boost) bit in the GT, with it's more linear delivery, it really became obvious and somewhat frustrating.

Thanks Bouka. As much as its not the romantic choice, the F6 is still the better package....IMO :)

[duke5700]

Well 114mph is 114mph :lol: I dunno I was expecting with the stupendous dyno readings for it to be much closer to 120mph. It is what it is and it won't be long before someone throws caution to the wind and then we will see just how fast they actually can go.

[10sec_rx7]

the F6 is still the better package....IMO :)

100% agree.. hence the reason i now own a turbo 6 ford.. they are a bloody good thing

[bouka]

This thing really hauls arse once up and running and it shows in the performance figures. To 100 it was level pegging with the GTS but to 190 it was seconds ahead.

You can certainly feel it on the road as well. As mentioned already (and sorry for the repetition) but in the lower gears it feels restricted and once you have some speed up it really has some shove.

It makes sense in the F6 as it has lag to overcome but what is it in the GT that slows it down?

[bouka]

Thanks Bouka. As much as its not the romantic choice, the F6 is still the better package....IMO :)

I waited for the Miami as i had to see what the hype was about, plus, a charged V8 with factory warranty, yes thanks.

BUT, and after two tuners agree on it, the F6 is certainly still in the mix. And boy is it a farkin fun car.

Never been a more difficult time to decide what to park in the garage next. And aint it brilliant.

[Martin_D]

I will have a dig in the program tomorrow and tell you bouka
More than likely ETC throttle limiting at play....will look closer :)

[bouka]

Well 114mph is 114mph :lol: I dunno I was expecting with the stupendous dyno readings for it to be much closer to 120mph. It is what it is and it won't be long before someone throws caution to the wind and then we will see just how fast they actually can go.

Completely agree Luke. And it feels like a 120mph car when all the gagetry (or whatever it is) has eased and it is up and running.

[10sec_rx7]

I waited for the Miami as i had to see what the hype was about, plus, a charged V8 with factory warranty, yes thanks.

BUT, and after two tuners agree on it, the F6 is certainly still in the mix. And boy is it a farkin fun car.

Never been a more difficult time to decide what to park in the garage next. And aint it brilliant.

the F6 is still the package to get... a few $$ on a exhaust and tune with get you 350rwkw.. a few more $$$ on some injectors and intercooler will get you 400rwkw..

[4VMan]

the F6 is still the package to get... a few $$ on a exhaust and tune with get you 350rwkw.. a few more $$$ on some injectors and intercooler will get you 400rwkw..

LOL for the purchase price you get 335 RWKW with the new GT... F6 is around 270rwkw stock.
For $1600 tune only it makes 355rwkw and thats without any R+D yet, predictions are close to 400 rwkw TUNE ONLY....
GT is a better package.

[10sec_rx7]

whats the F6 price and whats the GT price?

[bouka]

I will have a dig in the program tomorrow and tell you bouka
More than likely ETC throttle limiting at play....will look closer :)

Cheers. Look forward to seeing what you find.

[4VMan]

whats the F6 price and whats the GT price?

Whats the GS price? its got the same engine as the GT, Add 1600 tune to the GS and its the same result as the GT.. clost to 400 RWKW....

[10sec_rx7]

GS only has stock brakes etc..

the F6 is $20k cheaper then the GT and around the same $$ as the GS ..

the F6 is the pick of the bunch..

[bouka]

Whilst you both make good points, and add to my already ridiculous indecisiveness, lets keep it about the V8 please gents.

[4VMan]

Whilst you both make good points, and add to my already ridiculous indecisiveness, lets keep it about the V8 please gents.

Agree, GT it is!!!

[Black Diamond]

I dare say that boost levels have been carefully monitored when run down the quarter to eliminate the possibilty of any boost decrease or belt slip resulting in the low mph?
As we know what happens on the dyno does not always transfer to the track.
I know its a dumb suggestion but a possibilty.

[bouka]

I dare say that boost levels have been carefully monitored when run down the quarter to eliminate the possibilty of any boost decrease or belt slip resulting in the low mph?
As we know what happens on the dyno does not always transfer to the track.
I know its a dumb suggestion but a possibilty.

Not dumb at all John. That's why I am interested to see if it is something in the software or not.

A dyno run measures power in a particular gear and the electronic limitations will not be present or as intrusive as it is in gear.

On the road, or strip, it need to go through launch and as many gear changes as it needs before getting to the 400 metre mark.

So whilst it shows good numbers on the rollers in a particular gear, it may not be able to fully utilise all that power on the road because of the electronic interventions.

I hope that makes sense and I await the experts to tell me if I am way off track.

[cosmo vyss]

Just get the GT and have a tune only car. It will be mint to drive and have all the performance you need. :rofl:

Besides that I have seen you drive Bouka and a GT with a tune will be far too much for you to handle, and you still get to drive a V8.

A white GT it is with sunroof and rear dvd player and brake upgrade. Then take it for a wee trip to the tuner and voila you have your daily for the next 18 months. Not a hard decision really. :goodjob: Watch out for the splinters while you are sitting on that fence. :)

[Pickles]

GS only has stock brakes etc..

the F6 is $20k cheaper then the GT and around the same $$ as the GS ..

the F6 is the pick of the bunch..
F6 has never been, and never will be, "the pick of the bunch"......simply because....it ain't a V8.
It could get to the moon & back before the GTS moved an inch......and you'd find that most on this forum would not buy it......because it ain't a V8.
It's lighter than the V8, therefore probably improves handling, it's a MIGHTY engine, particularly in view of its ancient roots, Ford have done an unbelievable job with it, but I'm sorry my friend, it ain't a V8.....and it ain't never going to worry HSV.....Miami might, & probably will, but a Turbo 6 will not.....nor will it worry the V8 buyer.....simply because he wants.....a V8.
Cheers, Pickles.

[BLACK 346]

F6 has never been, and never will be, "the pick of the bunch"......simply because....it ain't a V8.
It could get to the moon & back before the GTS moved an inch......and you'd find that most on this forum would not buy it......because it ain't a V8.
It's lighter than the V8, therefore probably improves handling, it's a MIGHTY engine, particularly in view of its ancient roots, Ford have done an unbelievable job with it, but I'm sorry my friend, it ain't a V8.....and it ain't never going to worry HSV.....Miami might, & probably will, but a Turbo 6 will not.....nor will it worry the V8 buyer.....simply because he wants.....a V8.
Cheers, Pickles.

Well said, best post in this thread :goodjob:

[duke5700]

It's lighter than the V8, therefore probably improves handling,

Would it be lighter? The LS series engine is lighter than a RB30.

[Uncle Tone]

Would it be lighter? The LS series engine is lighter than a RB30.

Reckon ls would be lighter.....six is an iron block.

[bouka]

Just get the GT and have a tune only car. It will be mint to drive and have all the performance you need. :rofl:

Besides that I have seen you drive Bouka and a GT with a tune will be far too much for you to handle, and you still get to drive a V8.

A white GT it is with sunroof and rear dvd player and brake upgrade. Then take it for a wee trip to the tuner and voila you have your daily for the next 18 months. Not a hard decision really. :goodjob: Watch out for the splinters while you are sitting on that fence. :)

Lol JB. I am enjoying the indecisiveness at the moment and it serves as a great distraction.

You are one to talk about fence sitting.

[JimmyXR6T04]

I know that with my old XR6T, when tuned that boost was lower in 1st and 2nd gear. So it was limited to say <10psi in 1st, and only hit max of 16psi in 3rd.

Could it be that the new FPVs run a lot lower boost in the lower gears, hence why it feels so slow in 1st and 2nd?

[macca_779]

Lol JB. I am enjoying the indecisiveness at the moment and it serves as a great distraction.

You are one to talk about fence sitting.

Hey George if you still haven't made a decision by Christmas we will sit down and have a yarn brainstorming pros and cons over a scotch or 20. Having driven one now. I understand your delimer.

[10sec_rx7]

not everyone wants a v8, ill lay money down that the F6 has stolen more sales from HSV than you would imagine..

HSV are in big trouble here. the E3's dont look great, they are under powered and no amount of interior gadgets are going to sell a car to people that want performance..

[bouka]

Hey George if you still haven't made a decision by Christmas we will sit down and have a yarn brainstorming pros and cons over a scotch or 20. Having driven one now. I understand your delimer.

Sounds bloody good Macca.

When are you in town?

[macca_779]

Sounds bloody good Macca.

When are you in town?

Around the 20th Dec I reckon.

[macca_779]

not everyone wants a v8, ill lay money down that the F6 has stolen more sales from HSV than you would imagine..

HSV are in big trouble here. the E3's dont look great, they are under powered and no amount of interior gadgets are going to sell a car to people that want performance..

Mostly agree Dale. One area where I'd find it tuff to make a decision is inside the car. I reckon the cabin in the E3 is a nicer place to be. Its got nothing to do with performance but it's an important aspect when it's where you spend alot of time.

[EfiJy]

not everyone wants a v8, ill lay money down that the F6 has stolen more sales from HSV than you would imagine..

HSV are in big trouble here. the E3's dont look great, they are under powered and no amount of interior gadgets are going to sell a car to people that want performance..

I beg to differ.

The F6 has only sold half as well as the lackluster GT/GTPs. As far as I'm aware, FPV only sell around half the number of cars as HSV.

Not much sleep lost at HSV I would think, no matter how good/better the F6 may be.

[bouka]

Around the 20th Dec I reckon.

When do you go back?

[michaels1v8]

I beg to differ.

The F6 has only sold half as well as the lackluster GT/GTPs. As far as I'm aware, FPV only sell around half the number of cars as HSV.

Not much sleep lost at HSV I would think, no matter how good/better the F6 may be.

Whats the production capacity of FPV? It seems the waiting list is pretty long for a car since the new models are released. Won't the sales figures of FPV always be lower than HSV if they physically can't produce enough in a month to compete with HSV's production?

[701let]

not everyone wants a v8, ill lay money down that the F6 has stolen more sales from HSV than you would imagine..

HSV are in big trouble here. the E3's dont look great, they are under powered and no amount of interior gadgets are going to sell a car to people that want performance..

But they're not REALLY underpowered are they ? I mean really? And the looks are your opinion... I think they look unreal especially in the flesh...

So it isn't really doom and gloom at all is it?

I went for a run in a Mates g6et and while it went well it doesn't go that much better than my ssv... And the car as a whole did absolutely nothing for me..

[macca_779]

When do you go back?

First week of Jan

[10sec_rx7]

But they're not REALLY underpowered are they ? I mean really? And the looks are your opinion... I think they look unreal especially in the flesh...

So it isn't really doom and gloom at all is it?

I went for a run in a Mates g6et and while it went well it doesn't go that much better than my ssv... And the car as a whole did absolutely nothing for me..

the E1's look tops.. the E3's are just over the top IMHO..

its not all doom and gloom for sure, but comparing a G6et to a F6 is like comparing a SV6 to a clubsport :)

[jsme]

I was thinking of getting an F6 as my next car for the wank straight line performance of the things but the E3's with all the gadgets are really cool in my books. I dont mind it being a little bit slower.

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