DRIVEN: FPV GT S/C 335 Auto

[bouka]

I had the pleasure of taking an auto supercharged GT for a drive yesterday. The test drive lasted about 45 minutes and ALL aspects of the vehicles driving dynamics were explored. And i do mean ALL.

I have been privy to alot of information about this motor for a long time and it was difficult not to get excited about what i was hearing (i am not in the industry).

I mention this by way of putting my comments into some perspective, that is, that i approached the test drive with enthusiasm and from a very positive outlook.

I have been lucky enough to become a frequent buyer with HSV and have owned 5.7 lS1's, a 6.0 LS2, and am currently driving a 6.2 LS3 Senator that, as some of you would know, is a "good one" having run a 13.13 without any modifications or changes at all.

I also have driven many FG F6's and came very, very close to buying one. I am a big fan.

My apologies for the long winded intro but i thought it appropriate to provide some background and perspective.

OK. So the verdict! I will break it down so as to give an overall opinion.

Looks-Exterior

There has been alot of congecture about the looks of the FG FPV and i have to say i don't mind the looks. The blacked out sections at the front have grown on me and the overall package is very nice without being great. The E1 HSV's are the best looking performance car ever made in Australia and i have hahave owned 2 i liked them that mutch. The E2 is, well, not in the same category.

I liked the new rims but was not a fan of the new stripe package from what i saw in the photos. I have changed my mind on both. The rims i am not a fan of and the stripe package actually looks good. I would probably buy the GT-E so my bias may sway my opinion too much and so i will stop.

Looks - Interior

I find the FG FPV interior a nice place but miles away from HSV's offerings. The E3 interior is miles ahead again.

Please get rid of the pointless starter button or make it keyless. The seats are not great either, especially when compared to HSV, and previous FPV offerings for that matter.

Performance

The F6 is an AMAZING drive and the off-on rush of the boost is, in my opinion, unlike anything else in a factory built and warranted vehicle this side of the exotic europeans.

The GT is , by comparison, a completely different beast. From the slight spike in revs until it settles after start up to the subtle, almost non existant, exhaust note at idle to an utterly delicious (yes, i said delicious) exhaust note at WOT.

Having allowed the motor to warm and stationaryb at a set of lights i put her into nuetral and give the loud pedal a stab. Then again to confirm what just happened. This motor is extremely free revving, hitting the limiter without hesitation or intent. The sound and feel just spine tingling.

The GT is extremely easy to drive at low speed in and out of traffic. In fact you are left wondering if they have accidently forgotten to put the supercharger on. If not for the slight whine coming from in front of the steering wheel you would never know.

The ZF box is outstanding at low speeds. The many drives of the F6 made me a BIG fan of the ZF. The drive of the GT at LOW SPEEDS confirms its brilliance. Never once confused or lost, it is wonderful.

Slightly more than part throttle and you quickly come to realise that it is indeed equiped with some Harrop magic. The mid range is outstanding allowing for effortless driving through traffic and an effortless feel from the lump of metal that one finds themselves starting to fall in love with. The whine of the 1900 starting to become more prominent but not intrusive in the slightest.

Time for some real fun! What ensued was an overwhelming attack on the sensors and some very frustrating moments.

At wide open throttle and with more than 50 odd klm of road speed this engine is a masterpiece. The supercharger whine increases and the motor is always asking the supercharger for more. In fact it becomes a contest between the motor and the supercharger as to which one will will outdo the other.

[Djbarnstar]

Sooo what would you buy with your own money.. The F6 or the GT?

And 'Frustrating moments' Please explain. Can't you turn the TC off totally?

[GODSMACK]

Sooo what would you buy with your own money.. The F6 or the GT?

And 'Frustrating moments' Please explain. Can't you turn the TC off totally?

He may still prefer a HSV..??

What about acceleration, handling etc, how does it compare to the HSV's?

[BEARWOOD]

You were going well with your review but it just seemed to end without a closing statement or final verdict of any sort....

[bouka]

Sorry fellas, was kicked off when adding extra comments and did not get the chance to finish. So, here it goes:

.......as to which one will outdo the other.

The engine shines at speeds that will get you a spot on A Current Affair. It is obvious that torque management is a controlling factor to keep everything around the motor alive. It is also obvious that the tune is limitting the potential of the motor, that is to say it is obviously detuned. It is much like a pittbull that is being held back by a chocker lead.

The frustration comes at lower speeds, even with the traction control turned off. It is frustrating because there is so much more that the electronic wizzardry is reigning in. It also happens in the gear changes at higher speeds but it is not as intrusive. The motor is far too good for the drive line and in an attempt to keep all the bits and pieces together it is being heavily restricted. Understandably so.

The other thing that becomes obvious is that this motor has an enomous amount of potential. It is stunning in its current form, even with the electronic limitations. One can only imagine what it would be like in full spec (cooler, tune, VVT on etc).

FPV and Prodrive need to be commended. This is a FACTORY car with FULL FACTORY WARRANTY. And it is a masterpiece. The motor and supercharger as seperate items are brilliant. Together they are stunning.

GT or F6. As a V8 man the heart says S/C V8. But the I6T in the F6 is also brilliant. What a time to be a motoring enthusiast.

Anyone with blinded by brand loyalty is a idiot.

[HSVQUE]

ve ls3 gts + add real harrop 1900 = bye bye gtp by like 20 car lengths :)

[The-V8-Power]

Was the driving position a big drama for you? Or did you find it to be relatively normal?
Just wondering since people either love it or hate it.

[brentonsav]

ve ls3 gts + add real harrop 1900 = bye bye gtp by like 20 car lengths :)

i agree but the point is this is standard and warranted.

i'm sure the tune shops will start working out how to tune and add intercooler etc in the coming weeks.

it will be very interesting to see what power/qtr times these are making with what moads in say six months time once everyone has a good chance to play.

[bouka]

Dring position has been an issue, as the interior has been (in my opinion). The drivetrains of both the F6 and GT soon have you forgetting about it.

[mjrandom]

bouka what is the usable engine rev band? Sounds like I feared though, the chassis is struggling.

[bouka]

ve ls3 gts + add real harrop 1900 = bye bye gtp by like 20 car lengths :)

Have been down the path of aftermarket modifications. I am a little longer in the tooth and want something with full factory warranty, that is what makes that motor even more stunning.

Like i said, it needs to be kept in perspective. This is a factory standard vehicle. Comparing it to aftermarket mods is somewhat pointless.

I have no doubt the sftermarket will show its potential soon enough.

[his gts]

i agree but the point is this is standard and warranted.

i'm sure the tune shops will start working out how to tune and add intercooler etc in the coming weeks.

it will be very interesting to see what power/qtr times these are making with what moads in say six months time once everyone has a good chance to play.

Say goodbye warranty once the tuners get a hold of it. FPV will be all over those issues thats for sure.

[bouka]

bouka what is the usable engine rev band? Sounds like I feared though, the chassis is struggling.

All of it. From part throttle to wot, the motor is usable. Much better power down than the F6 as well. Will break traction but not as violently as the F6.

Chassis definately the weak link.

[silvervyss]

Great write up Bouka, some members here are totaly missing the big picture. The reason people are raving on about this car (including many holden drivers) is simply not about the power it makes. Spend a bit of money on any Ls powered car, and you will get the same power. Basically you have a factory car that has full warranty, no insurance problems and no epa/police issues, and lets not forget de-tuned. As for brand loyalty, im sure if m5/c63/audi v8 were in the same price range, i dont think we would be all driving holdens.

[Rub]

Great write up George..

Sure does sound like a killer motor car..

[Benton]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading your write up Bouka - and I agree, brand loyalty is now only for the ignorant.

[theVman]

Good write up. The GT sounds fantastic and it is good to hear there is a lot of potential in it. The old Boss motors were struggling but looks like Ford/FPV has a good thing in its hands now.

Interesting what is mentioned about the driving position. I noted the XR6 I drove the other day was a tad different but couldnt put my finger on it. From memory you feel like you a sitting a bit higher than expected or something like that. Jumping down from a 4x4 I didnt mind it.

Would certainly like to take one for a drive. If they combine it with the G6e package they would certainly be getting a few extra bums into seats as well I reckon.

[ADAM 26]

hsv will have to put the ls9 into there next series of cars to keep up with this new falcon!

[GODSMACK]

hsv will have to put the ls9 into there next series of cars to keep up with this new falcon!

RUBBISH!!!!! HSV still has the better 'overall package'... :1peek: :)

[BEARWOOD]

It's pretty amazing how some people can't accept anything positive unless it's from holden. It sounds like they have put together a good package minus a few little things and the one eyed ford nuts will be able to overlook them as most of us do with our cars..

I'd love for Holden to make a blown 6Ltr from factory..

[matygeenz]

Great write up Bouka, some members here are totaly missing the big picture. The reason people are raving on about this car (including many holden drivers) is simply not about the power it makes. Spend a bit of money on any Ls powered car, and you will get the same power. Basically you have a factory car that has full warranty, no insurance problems and no epa/police issues, and lets not forget de-tuned. As for brand loyalty, im sure if m5/c63/audi v8 were in the same price range, i dont think we would be all driving holdens.

Good points here i reckon.
Great Write up.

[chrisjb]

When is the s/c v8 coyote XR8 going to be avaliable?

[tantrum]

good write up dude, i really am liking the sound of these new GT's, might have to go and have a look at one up close and personal.

[Phizzle]

The pictures of opposite lock high smoke action don't seem to have loaded......









:)

[bouka]

Let's just say that it was DRIVEN for 45 minutes and the traction characteristics were very well explored.

My apologies for some of the horrible spelling and grammar.

Well worth a test drive.

[bouka]

When is the s/c v8 coyote XR8 going to be avaliable?

Good question. May not happen till FG2. Will it be S/C or N/A? Time will tell I suppose.

[macca_779]

So George the question has to be asked.. Will you buy one?

[bouka]

So George the question has to be asked.. Will you buy one?

A very good question Macca!

Look forward to catching up when you are next down and chucking you the keys to a .......

[zorro]

good write up george, I must say after our talks it sounded like you were sold on one :lol:

What I find if you do jump from one to the other the seating does feel odd. I had a BF Mk2 company car for 3yrs and it was far more comfortable to sit in for long trips than a Holden equivalent. On the other hand though both the Ford & Holdens have higher seating positions in leather seats, from VY-VZ & BA-BF the cloth seats are lower than the leather option. I did have a FG XR6 not long ago and I was very impressed with the drive, 5spd auto, handling & brakes and for the record being a hire car I wasnt shy to test this out.

Either or it comes down to what you prefer, but coming from one to the other you will always find small things that you arent happy with but if you look that aside as most cases you can live with it and focus on the overall package your mind should be made up easy.

[hsv-105]

Good honest write up Bouka. :goodjob:

I'm very close to ordering one myself just to experience life over on the dark side.

Struggling with the seating position after parking me arse in HSV's for so many years.

I'm going to spend the weekend having a good think about it.

Been promised late Feb delivery on a GTP.

Cheers Mark

[bouka]

It is the full electric seats in the Holdens that sit higher Ash.

Your right Ash, there are some things that will be missed going from one to the other.

I understand what you are saying Mark and you are a big fella so the seat issue will be more obvious for you.

The HSV E3 interior with the Miami motor and ZF auto in a styling package somewhere between the FG FPV and E3 would be the dream package.

With a bullet proof driveline!

Go for it Mark!

[smokey777]

Say goodbye warranty once the tuners get a hold of it. FPV will be all over those issues thats for sure.

so you are saying holden does cover? lol cmon...

[macca_779]

A very good question Macca!

Look forward to catching up when you are next down and chucking you the keys to a .......

....Luxurious Australian Performance Car. See you in a bit over a month buddy... I'll bring the scotch.

[BadSeed]

sounds good for the ford boys, but i'll stick to what i've got.

[Mega76]

Thanks for a great write up Bouka. Top read.

Matt

[Vulture]

hsv will have to put the ls9 into there next series of cars to keep up with this new falcon!

I think you'd have more luck playing a successful game of pick-up-sticks with your arse cheeks than getting an LS9 in a Holden. An HSV might be a different matter but I think they would ask a truly stupid price. I think the LSA is more likely.


When is the s/c v8 coyote XR8 going to be avaliable?

It won't be as far as I know, the Coyote is NA and that will be fitted to the XR8s.

[his gts]

so you are saying holden does cover? lol cmon...

No, I am just saying that FPV will be all over any mod work and will quickly jump on it due to it being a new concept for them ie v8 supercharging. lol cmon whatever.

[steve_t]

I think you'd have more luck playing a successful game of pick-up-sticks with your arse cheeks than getting an LS9 in a Holden. An HSV might be a different matter but I think they would ask a truly stupid price. I think the LSA is more likely.


+1 I doubt they'd play their trump card while they have the LSA sitting there. LSA makes more sense from both a $$ and marketing point of view, at least initially.

[FireArc]

Cheers for posting bouka. I'm keen to hear more about your thoughts on driving characteristics and capabilities based on your experience with the vehicles you have mentioned in the OP.

[fishla]

Nice yarn Bouka!!

Fords are still poo IMO :lol:

[nikola]

It is obvious that torque management is a controlling factor to keep everything around the motor alive. It is also obvious that the tune is limitting the potential of the motor, that is to say it is obviously detuned. It is much like a pittbull that is being held back by a chocker lead.

The frustration comes at lower speeds, even with the traction control turned off. It is frustrating because there is so much more that the electronic wizzardry is reigning in.

This same thing applies to Holden's too doesn't it?

When standard, my SS Ute was driving me nuts because it would never allow full throttle instantly. It would always open slowly and felt like turbo lag. I almost got into an accident when overtaking once because the car didn't give me full power when I wanted it to.

Luckily, a tune fixed that but man, I was ready to sell the car if it couldn't be fixed. Screw Holden and their softcokc standard tune. :flipoff:

[hsv-105]

This same thing applies to Holden's too doesn't it?

When standard, my SS Ute was driving me nuts because it would never allow full throttle instantly. It would always open slowly and felt like turbo lag. I almost got into an accident when overtaking once because the car didn't give me full power when I wanted it to.

Luckily, a tune fixed that but man, I was ready to sell the car if it couldn't be fixed. Screw Holden and their softcokc standard tune. :flipoff:

Put your mocassins on the passenger side floor when you get in the ute next time mate.........

[Space Pope]

Great write up Bouka, some members here are totaly missing the big picture. The reason people are raving on about this car (including many holden drivers) is simply not about the power it makes. Spend a bit of money on any Ls powered car, and you will get the same power. Basically you have a factory car that has full warranty, no insurance problems and no epa/police issues, and lets not forget de-tuned. As for brand loyalty, im sure if m5/c63/audi v8 were in the same price range, i dont think we would be all driving holdens.

If I could get an M5 for the price the yanks can get them, I certainly wouldn't be driving a Holden. The GT sounds a fun bit of kit though...it's just it's looks that does my head in.

[EfiJy]

Did I miss something? Did the OP stick his neck out and describe what he prefers? His HSV or the latest FPV? :confused:

[cosmo vyss]

Stop dribbling Bouka and just buy one. F6 bla bla bla.......GT bla bla bla.







They are both good cars. Here is a novel thought though.....Why not get a Senator and have walkinshaw bang a blower on it. They do have warranty.....:soap:

[bouka]

Cheers for posting bouka. I'm keen to hear more about your thoughts on driving characteristics and capabilities based on your experience with the vehicles you have mentioned in the OP.

Will expand on this a little more over the weekend. Glad you asked actually.

[bouka]

....Luxurious Australian Performance Car. See you in a bit over a month buddy... I'll bring the scotch.

Well said Macca. Look forward to catching up.

[bouka]

Did I miss something? Did the OP stick his neck out and describe what he prefers? His HSV or the latest FPV? :confused:

Yes i kinda did but not in the original post.

As mentioned in a previous post, a combination of E3 interior, Miami motor and exterior styling somewhere between the current FPV (too understated) and the E3 (not much need be said about its styling).

The difficulty lies in the strengths and weaknesses of each car. See above statement.

I started the thread to give my impressions of the new motor and gave a background of my motoring history to give some perspective to my comments.

Sound like a copout? Probably cos it is.

I still find myself looking at my E1 (LS3) Senator and loving what i see. The FPV and E2/E3 do not evoke the same response. And herein lies the problem.

As i said, a bloody great time to be a fan of performance cars and we (Aussie performance car manufacturers) can be bloody proud of our products. Regardless of where your loyalties lie.

[bouka]

Stop dribbling Bouka and just buy one. F6 bla bla bla.......GT bla bla bla.







They are both good cars. Here is a novel thought though.....Why not get a Senator and have walkinshaw bang a blower on it. They do have warranty.....:soap:

Hi JB. You love my dribbling!

You know how i feel about the E2/E3 Senator styling. E3 interior is brilliant though.

Walkinshaw package is brilliant but adds almost 17k to price of car and insurance is astronomical. On list price that is over 100k. No thanks.

They do offer warranty but it would be interesting to see the game between Walkinshaw and Holden if a tranny waves goodbuy or a piston decides to get some fresh air.

[cosmo vyss]

Hi JB. You love my dribbling!

You know how i feel about the E2/E3 Senator styling. E3 interior is brilliant though.

Walkinshaw package is brilliant but adds almost 17k to price of car and insurance is astronomical. On list price that is over 100k. No thanks.

They do offer warranty but it would be interesting to see the game between Walkinshaw and Holden if a tranny waves goodbuy or a piston decides to get some fresh air.

You never know until you go as they say. I am leading towards the GT. Something about a V8 with a supercharger I find appealing. I think the ford exterior is much better than the holden, and the holden interior is streets ahead of the ford. Wait til one of these things has had a tune. I think we will be shocked at the results.

[NickS]

sounds good for the ford boys, but i'll stick to what i've got.

Same here ... I couldn't legally use the 255kW my VX Clubby had 8 years ago, I couldn't give a toss how much power this thing can put out ... zero interest.

Brand loyalty may be for the ignorant ... but ignorance is bliss so I'll stick with my HSV. Even if it is sloooooooooooow.

:goodjob:

[Spoolin]

Great unbiasd write up :goodjob:

But...FFS! Why are there constant idiots on this forum with the same old lines...'put a blower on my LSx and I'll beat it', thanks captain obvious!
So lets go for for a squirt and pull up to a police block with TMU and Vicroads on hand...the falcon driver will smile and wave while you arse cheeks suck you seat up :rofl:

The comparison is off the factory floor with full factory warranty and 100% legal car...GET IT :flipoff:

I'll be taking a very close look mid next year at a VE ssV ute, GS ute and an XR6T ute. As it stands the SSV is at the bottom of the list after having an XR6T sedan for 12 months.

[bouka]

Same here ... I couldn't legally use the 255kW my VX Clubby had 8 years ago, I couldn't give a toss how much power this thing can put out ... zero interest.

Brand loyalty may be for the ignorant ... but ignorance is bliss so I'll stick with my HSV. Even if it is sloooooooooooow.

:goodjob:

I bet you shopped around and looked at all sorts of cars in the C's price range before you signed up. Bit faster than the vx as well (and a bloody great choice).

Nothing wrong with brand loyalty, I have owned many HSV's. May even buy another.

Not going to be silly enough to eliminate a product based on ingnorance though.

[NickS]

I bet you shopped around and looked at all sorts of cars in the C's price range before you signed up. Bit faster than the vx as well (and a bloody great choice).

Nothing wrong with brand loyalty, I have owned many HSV's. May even buy another.

Not going to be silly enough to eliminate a product based on ingnorance though.

Yeah fair enough ... don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from and I agree 100%. I'm not a Merc only fan and looked at the GTR, M3, RS4 (2nd hand), RS5 and some E63s (2nd hand again) ... all very different cars really.

I think the products coming out of the Ford factory recently are bloody impressive, I just have absolutely zero interest in even looking at one. I don't care if it's technically a better car (I'm yet to be convinced it is ... better engine seems certain though) if my heart isn't in it I won't love it. I don't consider it ignorance, many probably do, but my heart will NEVER let me choose a Ford. It's just the way I am ...

I'd love to drive one just to try it and congrats to anyone that picks one up, I'm sure you'll have a ball. They just aren't for me ... if HSV starts building dogs the situation may change, but they do everything I ask of them and I love 'em to bits ... so more power isn't going to swing me.

Take the C for example ... head said GTR / heart said AMG. The GTR is quicker, no doubt about it (I had a deposit down on a GTR), but I wouldn't have LOVED it and that's what swung me. Haven't regretted the decision for a single second.

:cheers:

[Bingo BIlly]

I reckon my VY SS with mafless tune and diff gears will give this Little miami 5.0 the heave ho.

[planetdavo]

Lets be honest. Many of the people commenting in this thread would sh!t their pants if they flogged either car. Stats are for :jerk: off at the pub (or on forums).

[Old Bloke]

Lets be honest. Many of the people commenting in this thread would sh!t their pants if they flogged either car. Stats are for :jerk: off at the pub (or on forums).

Quite true, but it can only prompt bigger & better things from Holden/HSV!:)

[macca_779]

I reckon my VY SS with mafless tune and diff gears will give this Little miami 5.0 the heave ho.

I wouldn't bet on it buddy.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

I wouldn't bet on it buddy.

pah ill put money to that bet...good luck with the tune buddy...haha (oh no another one):flipoff:

[Bingo BIlly]

I know of a vz ss with tune only that went 12.8 down the quarter? Lets add diff gears to that.

Has this new ford ran better than that.

Ill tune and diff gears my car and i await the gt 335, i bet he wont run for pink slips

[macca_779]

pah ill put money to that bet...good luck with the tune buddy...haha (oh no another one):flipoff:

What's that supposed to mean?

[macca_779]

I know of a vz ss with tune only that went 12.8 down the quarter? Lets add diff gears to that.

Has this new ford ran better than that.

Ill tune and diff gears my car and i await the gt 335, i bet he wont run for pink slips

Not on street tyres though was it.. Throw some slicks on these FPV's and what do you think is going to happen to their already respectable ET's. I think you need to wake up a bit buddy and realise a minimum bolt on's LS1 isn't exactly as fast as you may think it is. My LS1 is cammed, short ratio box, 3.73's etc, etc.. I'm not proud enough to think it will beat one of these things. But it will sure as hell rape a tune only VY.

[bouka]

Spot on Macca and a very mature and realistic outlook.

I really don't want to see this thread go off track gentlemen.

[csv rulz]

I really dont understand why people keep saying " If I do this, this and this to my car i will blow the new GT away"
Clearly they do not seem to grasp the fact that this is a stock standard production car with no mods. which is clearly very impressive.
Im a Holden fan through and through but you have to give credit where credit is due, clearly FPV have done a great job with this new engine, if they can work out how to get the power through the back wheels cleanly HSV will have some real trouble.

[lowriding]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/might-and-power-20101105-17gti.html

"It turns out Tickford's David Flint was right all those years ago. Performance isn't just about who's got the most horsepower but the complete package. Ironically, a Holden has ultimately proven his point."


That should set the cat among the pigeons . And maccas . :bawl:

[macca_779]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/might-and-power-20101105-17gti.html

"It turns out Tickford's David Flint was right all those years ago. Performance isn't just about who's got the most horsepower but the complete package. Ironically, a Holden has ultimately proven his point."


That should set the cat among the pigeons . And maccas . :bawl:

I agree that a package is all important. But you have to ask yourself how heavily do you weigh power in a performance package. And at what price are you willing to pay for it. Bang for buck mods would no doubt be important for the majority of us here too.

[silvervyss]

I know of a vz ss with tune only that went 12.8 down the quarter? Lets add diff gears to that.

Has this new ford ran better than that.

Ill tune and diff gears my car and i await the gt 335, i bet he wont run for pink slips

And if the gt335 had a tune and diff gears also ???

[Toast]

Great read on the new GT Bouka!

But phuk a duck it's funny reading what all the haters are replying with :confused: "Yeah if I do this and I do that, my car will beat it". I'm sure if my EH Prem had a 450hp 355 stroker backed with a T350 and 3500 stall it'd flog just about any HSV or FPV.. But thanks for stating the obvious! :eyes:

Just accept it, Ford/FPV are making brilliant cars at the moment and Holden/HSV are s-t-ruggling. The F6 is wayyy ahead of any Holden or HSV in terms of performance, driveability and bang for buck - turbo Falcons are much more fun than a tune only LS1, 2 or 3, nothing beats the rush of a turbo IMO (maybe a blown V8 but I'm yet to drive one)... Looks like FPV have the upper hand with this new S/C 5.0L anyway.

This Ford will be a good thing for not only them, but also the competition to step up and start doing PROPER model updates, apart from giving us stupid looking fake vents, d!cky day time lights and bigger rear spoilers for extra down force...

Ignorance is a weakness. Brand loyalty is becoming a thing of the past. Get over it...

[Deco28]

Great read on the new GT Bouka!

Ignorance is a weakness. Brand loyalty is becoming a thing of the past. Get over it...

This is the silliest thing I keep hearing.

[Vulture]

I really dont understand why people keep saying " If I do this, this and this to my car i will blow the new GT away"
Clearly they do not seem to grasp the fact that this is a stock standard production car with no mods. which is clearly very impressive.

Well said.


http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/might-and-power-20101105-17gti.html

A very well written review. Comprehensive and objective. The gallery is good. I think the GTS is actually better looking than the GT with all its decals. The yellow actually works quite well. And that's after me bagging the GTS E2/3 severely!

[VY18s]

I really dont understand why people keep saying " If I do this, this and this to my car i will blow the new GT away"
Clearly they do not seem to grasp the fact that this is a stock standard production car with no mods. which is clearly very impressive.
Im a Holden fan through and through but you have to give credit where credit is due, clearly FPV have done a great job with this new engine, if they can work out how to get the power through the back wheels cleanly HSV will have some real trouble.

Me either. I think some people are just finding it hard to accept off the factory floor this new S/C V8 is an impressive bit of gear.

Holden/HSV just simply have work to do to better it.

[Bingo BIlly]

I more than acknowledge the new gt performance, 335kw

Everyone keeps saying in amazement this car is stock, warranty and bla bla.

Noone mentions it also costs $70k. My vy ss might be worth $15k, its in mint conditon, 57,000km with $2000 ill tune it and get a set of diff gears(my car is out of warranty). At this point is the new gt a $53,000 quicker car? Thats my point here.

[sportwagon]

While low 13s is respectable i thought it would be quicker as guys dyno testing the manual version where coming up with unbeleivable figures of over 400rwhp.

[macca_779]

I more than acknowledge the new gt performance, 335kw

Everyone keeps saying in amazement this car is stock, warranty and bla bla.

Noone mentions it also costs $70k. My vy ss might be worth $15k, its in mint conditon, 57,000km with $2000 ill tune it and get a set of diff gears(my car is out of warranty). At this point is the new gt a $53,000 quicker car? Thats my point here.

You could also make the same comparison about a 150k+ W427. The point is this is how they roll off the factory floor, compare it to what's relevant, which isn't a used car. Remember at some stage someone spent 50k buying your car. Making a comparison like you are is a complete nonsense. When guys are getting 400rwkw for peanuts out of these things will that change your mind. Because with your logic even comparing a modified FG would be a fail as you could still get 400rwkw out of your VY for less outlay.. No shit you could.

[Irish]

I more than acknowledge the new gt performance, 335kw

Everyone keeps saying in amazement this car is stock, warranty and bla bla.

Noone mentions it also costs $70k. My vy ss might be worth $15k, its in mint conditon, 57,000km with $2000 ill tune it and get a set of diff gears(my car is out of warranty). At this point is the new gt a $53,000 quicker car? Thats my point here.

If everyone thought like you nobody would buy a new car. They would be like me with 46 year old steel sitting in the garage.

[Black Diamond]

Just look at the bright side lads.
Holden/HSV have more often than not landed the knock down punch, and im pretty confident the boys at Clayton will be working overtime on this one.

Until then Ford have to be congratulated on this one :goodjob:
BTW great wright up George, you actually have a brain under that big skull :hide: :moon:
Cheers John

[DukeZ]

john its spelt write not right :hide:

and george good work interesting read from a man who has had the best holden can offer

[Ghia351]

I more than acknowledge the new gt performance, 335kw

Everyone keeps saying in amazement this car is stock, warranty and bla bla.

Noone mentions it also costs $70k. My vy ss might be worth $15k, its in mint conditon, 57,000km with $2000 ill tune it and get a set of diff gears(my car is out of warranty). At this point is the new gt a $53,000 quicker car? Thats my point here.Maybe if you cost buying a new SS and modding it to GT performance/brakes etc and see if the difference is still so great. You can't really compare an older, modded car to a brand new stock car.

[Toast]

This is the silliest thing I keep hearing.

That ^^ is by far the "silliest" comment in the whole thread.

It is ignornace (and jealousy by the sounds) because all the haters/biased/Holden through-and-through supporters just can't accept Ford have something decent for once, that will no doubt blow the doors off the latest SS or HSV.

No one is looking at the bigger picture - Holden will HAVE to step up and match the competition, which means the next update Holden bring to the table will come close to matching, if not flogging the competition. Good for Holden, so it must be good for you and I.

It is a supercharged, stock standard 5.0L, with warranty - what's not to like about that? The styling on the other hand is not everyone's cup of tea, but then an E2 and E3 look like asolute bollocks to me. Ask Harrop if they'll give you a 3 year or 100,000k warranty to have a blower bolted onto your VY SS or whatever else you have...

Now let's turn that frown upside down and just be lucky we have these kind of cars for sale in Oz.

[Kuzman89]

Judging by what drive etc have said, the perfect combination would seem to be the miami in the HSV... :spew:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

What's that supposed to mean?

i may have to work on my english...but i was having a crack at another noob who thinks a tuned car (moddded)can be compared to a non modded factory car without opening a can of worms.

[Pickles]

That ^^ is by far the "silliest" comment in the whole thread.

It is ignornace (and jealousy by the sounds) because all the haters/biased/Holden through-and-through supporters just can't accept Ford have something decent for once, that will no doubt blow the doors off the latest SS or HSV.

No one is looking at the bigger picture - Holden will HAVE to step up and match the competition, which means the next update Holden bring to the table will come close to matching, if not flogging the competition. Good for Holden, so it must be good for you and I.

It is a supercharged, stock standard 5.0L, with warranty - what's not to like about that? The styling on the other hand is not everyone's cup of tea, but then an E2 and E3 look like asolute bollocks to me. Ask Harrop if they'll give you a 3 year or 100,000k warranty to have a blower bolted onto your VY SS or whatever else you have...

Now let's turn that frown upside down and just be lucky we have these kind of cars for sale in Oz.

"Blow the doors off"......Ha Ha Ha....That is what HSV has been doing to FPV for several years. There has been NO evidence ANYWHERE that FPV are now going to "blow the doors" off anything. If you bother to properly read what has been written about the GT & the GTS, you will actually see that they are close....VERY close, actually. Is that your definition of "blowing the doors off"?...It ain't mine.
The most dramatic thing that HAS happened, is that it APPEARS that FPV have caught up, & mate, I'm glad they have.....actually, I agree with YOUR words, "they have something decent for once"....you're spot on, and hey, it's about time isn't it?
But please, "blow the doors off"??!!.....well if you're into inaccurate sensationalism, I guess you can say what you like, but that simply, is not the real situation.
And there's no HSV favouritism here either, I've had my issues with HSV....and I've just bought a Ford, I'm as excited as anyone about the Miami....I just like to keep things in perspective.
Cheers, Pickles.

[kane_tools]

Just look at the bright side lads.
Holden/HSV have more often than not landed the knock down punch, and im pretty confident the boys at Clayton will be working overtime on this one.

Until then Ford have to be congratulated on this one :goodjob:
BTW great wright up George, you actually have a brain under that big skull :hide: :moon:
Cheers John

I always thought the turbo sixes have been belting most Holden V8's since 2002.
Now with Miami & 6T it's a left jab right cross.
Time for HSV to roll out the 497kw 9.2 litre global warmer :jester:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

"Blow the doors off"......Ha Ha Ha....That is what HSV has been doing to FPV for several years. There has been NO evidence ANYWHERE that FPV are now going to "blow the doors" off anything. If you bother to properly read what has been written about the GT & the GTS, you will actually see that they are close....VERY close, actually. Is that your definition of "blowing the doors off"?...It ain't mine.
The most dramatic thing that HAS happened, is that it APPEARS that FPV have caught up, & mate, I'm glad they have.....actually, I agree with YOUR words, "they have something decent for once"....you're spot on, and hey, it's about time isn't it?
But please, "blow the doors off"??!!.....well if you're into inaccurate sensationalism, I guess you can say what you like, but that simply, is not the real situation.
And there's no HSV favouritism here either, I've had my issues with HSV....and I've just bought a Ford, I'm as excited as anyone about the Miami....I just like to keep things in perspective.
Cheers, Pickles.

well have i got news for u mr negative. If you race a GTS and a GT to 180 the GTS will be something like 3SECS behind...did you hear that...3secs behind. If you race from 80-120 its also well over just tenths here were talking about. The latest wheels mags has comprehensive drag track and road times and reviews which show the GT dominates in EVERYTHING except off the line. Which we all know is a little irrelevant as almost any performance car will be neck and neck of the line as there is only so fast you can start. Anyway i think if you read a little more with an open mind....credit is deserved were due.


Also for all the tyre and handling gurus out there....the latest test has the AUTO GT half a second a lap quicker round the track then the MANUAL mrc,fat tyres and so on equiped GTS. Must be one hell of an engine. mmmmmm

[KRUEGER]

Duno if its been posted but maybe Holden can fast track the motor being developed for the new Camaro Z28?

[KRUEGER]

Heres the link -

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/blogs-and-stuff/spy_shots/spy_shot_2011_chevrolet_camaro

[michaels1v8]

well have i got news for u mr negative. If you race a GTS and a GT to 180 the GTS will be something like 3SECS behind...did you hear that...3secs behind. If you race from 80-120 its also well over just tenths here were talking about. The latest wheels mags has comprehensive drag track and road times and reviews which show the GT dominates in EVERYTHING except off the line. Which we all know is a little irrelevant as almost any performance car will be neck and neck of the line as there is only so fast you can start. Anyway i think if you read a little more with an open mind....credit is deserved were due.


Also for all the tyre and handling gurus out there....the latest test has the AUTO GT half a second a lap quicker round the track then the MANUAL mrc,fat tyres and so on equiped GTS. Must be one hell of an engine. mmmmmm

whoa. . . 3 seconds behind? Are you sure? They'd clock similar speeds (180ks) at the drags n i can't see the gts being 3 seconds slower than the ford over the quarter. . Or am i missing somethin here?

[cams290]

"Blow the doors off"......Ha Ha Ha....That is what HSV has been doing to FPV for several years. There has been NO evidence ANYWHERE that FPV are now going to "blow the doors" off anything. If you bother to properly read what has been written about the GT & the GTS, you will actually see that they are close....VERY close, actually. Is that your definition of "blowing the doors off"?...It ain't mine.
The most dramatic thing that HAS happened, is that it APPEARS that FPV have caught up, & mate, I'm glad they have.....actually, I agree with YOUR words, "they have something decent for once"....you're spot on, and hey, it's about time isn't it?
But please, "blow the doors off"??!!.....well if you're into inaccurate sensationalism, I guess you can say what you like, but that simply, is not the real situation.
And there's no HSV favouritism here either, I've had my issues with HSV....and I've just bought a Ford, I'm as excited as anyone about the Miami....I just like to keep things in perspective.
Cheers, Pickles.

I don't post on here often but you have some very inaccurate comments yourself. FPV have had a car called the F6 that can easily hold it's own against anything from HSV, so you saying HSV have been blowing the doors of FPV for years is totally incorrect.



The GT was 15kph faster than the GTS down the straight at Winton 190kph vs 175kph in the latest Motor Mag test if that aint blowing the doors off it, I don't know what is.

[Irish]

whoa. . . 3 seconds behind? Are you sure? They'd clock similar speeds (180ks) at the drags n i can't see the gts being 3 seconds slower than the ford over the quarter. . Or am i missing somethin here?

Motor quoted 12 secs for the miami GT to reach 180k's and 15 secs for the GTS to do the same. Different days and different tracks may have them closer.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

whoa. . . 3 seconds behind? Are you sure? They'd clock similar speeds (180ks) at the drags n i can't see the gts being 3 seconds slower than the ford over the quarter. . Or am i missing somethin here?
sorry...
12.9 GT
15.5 GTS

so 2.6 secs to be more precise.....times quoted in latest motor test
80-120 GS 2.9
80-120 R8 3.8


now i know there just numbers but this is a brand new tight engine with skinny tyres......so i just cant see anybody not respecting these times.http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11313510&page=1&pp=30

[Mad4Monaros]

Don't know what mag you guys are reading but when I looked at the motor mag at the news agency yesterday it had

0-400M

GT - 13.4
GTS - 13.5

[EfiJy]

Don't know what mag you guys are reading but when I looked at the motor mag at the news agency yesterday it had

0-400M

GT - 13.4
GTS - 13.5
0-400m

GS: 13.47 sec
GT: 13.24 sec

R8: 13.76 sec
GTS: 13.76 sec

track

GS: 1.45.4 sec (manual)
GT: 1.43.5 sec (auto)

R8: 1.44.0 sec (auto)
GTS: 1.44.8 sec (manual)

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

Don't know what mag you guys are reading but when I looked at the motor mag at the news agency yesterday it had

0-400M

GT - 13.4
GTS - 13.5

latest motor

GT 13.2 (auto)
GS 13.4 (manual)
GTS/R8 13.7

read the link above and all your questions will be answered. I think alittle off the slowness may be able to be blamd on the porkiness off the nearly 2 ton 1900kg GTS with the LPI system now(and the forementioned extra options)

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

0-400m

GS: 13.47 sec
GT: 13.24 sec

R8: 13.76 sec
GTS: 13.76 sec

track

GS: 1.45.4 sec (manual)
GT: 1.43.5 sec (auto)

R8: 1.44.0 sec (auto)
GTS: 1.44.8 sec (manual)

i think the GS was manual and the GT auto....correct me if im wrong

[Vulture]

Also for all the tyre and handling gurus out there....the latest test has the AUTO GT half a second a lap quicker round the track then the MANUAL mrc,fat tyres and so on equiped GTS. Must be one hell of an engine. mmmmmm

The GTS may well handle better than the FPV but the kind of torque being made by the Miami at much lower revs is going to be hard to overcome with marginally better tyre or mechanical grip. These things also are highly variable and depend on how open or tight a track is etc. As others have said, all this is fantastic for competition. Personally, I cannot see HSV responding to the HP of the Miami for some time. What can they do besides the LSA? I'm not sure how developed a direct injection version of the LS engine series is either.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

The GTS may well handle better than the FPV but the kind of torque being made by the Miami at much lower revs is going to be hard to overcome with marginally better tyre or mechanical grip. These things also are highly variable and depend on how open or tight a track is etc. As others have said, all this is fantastic for competition. Personally, I cannot see HSV responding to the HP of the Miami for some time. What can they do besides the LSA? I'm not sure how developed a direct injection version of the LS engine series is either.

apparently only the injectors and it only uses lpi below 3000rpm or something. HSV say performance is the same...but i doubt they are including the weight gain from the 5ooo$ lpi which takes like 6 years to pay itself off. (Awesome ks between fills but how much would it suck having to go to 2 diff bowsers at fill up time) meh gimmick

[Vulture]

apparently only the injectors and it only uses lpi below 3000rpm or something. HSV say performance is the same...but i doubt they are including the weight gain from the 5ooo$ lpi which takes like 6 years to pay itself off. (Awesome ks between fills but how much would it suck having to go to 2 diff bowsers at fill up time) meh gimmick

Yes, couldn't see myself buying one with it - somehow less 'pure'.

[smokey777]

Yeah fair enough ... don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from and I agree 100%. I'm not a Merc only fan and looked at the GTR, M3, RS4 (2nd hand), RS5 and some E63s (2nd hand again) ... all very different cars really.

I think the products coming out of the Ford factory recently are bloody impressive, I just have absolutely zero interest in even looking at one. I don't care if it's technically a better car (I'm yet to be convinced it is ... better engine seems certain though) if my heart isn't in it I won't love it. I don't consider it ignorance, many probably do, but my heart will NEVER let me choose a Ford. It's just the way I am ...

I'd love to drive one just to try it and congrats to anyone that picks one up, I'm sure you'll have a ball. They just aren't for me ... if HSV starts building dogs the situation may change, but they do everything I ask of them and I love 'em to bits ... so more power isn't going to swing me.

Take the C for example ... head said GTR / heart said AMG. The GTR is quicker, no doubt about it (I had a deposit down on a GTR), but I wouldn't have LOVED it and that's what swung me. Haven't regretted the decision for a single second.

:cheers:

great post nick i agree if i was in a position to buy the car i wanted itd be a toss up between lambo or aston martin dbs aston would win hands down even though it is the slower car and probably not as good but god its just sex on wheels lol

[The-V8-Power]

The GTS may well handle better than the FPV but the kind of torque being made by the Miami at much lower revs is going to be hard to overcome with marginally better tyre or mechanical grip. These things also are highly variable and depend on how open or tight a track is etc. As others have said, all this is fantastic for competition. Personally, I cannot see HSV responding to the HP of the Miami for some time. What can they do besides the LSA? I'm not sure how developed a direct injection version of the LS engine series is either.

The GEN V 5.0 DI should be out in about 2012 in the Corvette so it will be about 2013-2014 before we get it if we are lucky. Feels like forever, so I guess it must be the LSA if they want to combat the Ford V8. Then again expect people to say what some of us are saying now in that FI is unfair especially on an engine with a larger displacement.

[michaels1v8]

:goodjob: can't dispute those numbers

Damn impressive times by both FPV and HSV I reckon.

I can see a few die-hard ford fans upgrading their Boss GTs and XR8s.

I'd be happy with either. . . actually I'm pretty happy with just a bolt on VX :)

[Wonky]

0-400m

GS: 13.47 sec
GT: 13.24 sec

R8: 13.76 sec
GTS: 13.76 sec

track

GS: 1.45.4 sec (manual)
GT: 1.43.5 sec (auto)

R8: 1.44.0 sec (auto)
GTS: 1.44.8 sec (manual)


i think the GS was manual and the GT auto....correct me if im wrong

So it says???????

BTW Bouka - great unbiased write-up. As I'd expect from listening to you talking about your next selection of car. :goodjob:

[HYMEY]

I know of a vz ss with tune only that went 12.8 down the quarter? Lets add diff gears to that.

Has this new ford ran better than that.

Ill tune and diff gears my car and i await the gt 335, i bet he wont run for pink slips

But VZ SS's drive like shit compared to a VE and the Ford's are even better, 12.8 wow thats quick lol

[kane_tools]

That's it Holden fanboys you lost the drag race, the circuit race, get mauled on the rolling acceleration and purchase price. Get over it!! Oh hang on that was just the F6!
You did however win the consolation prize for ugliest body kit known to man however and the ability to ruin a brilliant looking car in the process..
This was closely followed by the hockey stick GT stripes

[Pickles]

I don't post on here often but you have some very inaccurate comments yourself. FPV have had a car called the F6 that can easily hold it's own against anything from HSV, so you saying HSV have been blowing the doors of FPV for years is totally incorrect.



The GT was 15kph faster than the GTS down the straight at Winton 190kph vs 175kph in the latest Motor Mag test if that aint blowing the doors off it, I don't know what is.

Aaahhh....Yes....The F6.......and why do you think that Ford put such emphasis on this engine......because the LS3 was simply too good for the Ford V8....that is a fact.
And I have no problem agreeing with probably everything you would want to say about the Falcon Turbo 6.....in whatever guise it is....Ford have done a MAGNIFICENT job with it. No questions from me at all.....BUT it is simply an engine that does not appeal to me......& before you get the wrong idea....I'd feel the same if it was a Holden Turbo 6.......I like my V8s, that's all there is to it.....no brand bias.....not from me anyway.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Deco28]

That ^^ is by far the "silliest" comment in the whole thread.

It is ignornace (and jealousy by the sounds) because all the haters/biased/Holden through-and-through supporters just can't accept Ford have something decent for once, that will no doubt blow the doors off the latest SS or HSV.

No one is looking at the bigger picture - Holden will HAVE to step up and match the competition, which means the next update Holden bring to the table will come close to matching, if not flogging the competition. Good for Holden, so it must be good for you and I.

It is a supercharged, stock standard 5.0L, with warranty - what's not to like about that? The styling on the other hand is not everyone's cup of tea, but then an E2 and E3 look like asolute bollocks to me. Ask Harrop if they'll give you a 3 year or 100,000k warranty to have a blower bolted onto your VY SS or whatever else you have...

Now let's turn that frown upside down and just be lucky we have these kind of cars for sale in Oz.

Obviously, but it is ridiculous to say that brand loyalties are a thing of the past. Eveything is built around loyalties, to criticise people because they will always prefer one thing even though the competition is better is plain ignorant. Yes you'll argue brand loyalty is ignorant, but it is a passion. Both sides for criticising each others viewpoints, are as bad as each other.

SO freaking what if someone doesn't like Ford's new engine and prefers HSV's, they are allowed to. Would you stop supporting your footy team just because they start losing?

I realise the miami is good, I realise it is better then holden competition, I am disapointed it beats HSV, no I wouldn't want a FPV because I am plain not interested in that vehicle, I want a HSV. Brand loyalty builds companies.

Where would apple be without its fanboys?


On a side note - I wish they didn't run the LPG GTS, I'd like to see where the normal ones that is ~100kg lighter matches up. Oh well.

[seedyrom]

(Awesome ks between fills but how much would it suck having to go to 2 diff bowsers at fill up time) meh gimmick
Having had an LPG car before, I'd never ever have one again.
Especially if you have a fuel card which limits you to large chain fuel suppliers, rather than smaller independent (taxi friendly) service stations.

The gas bowser gets stuck between two regular fuel bowsers. You have to queue up to get that bowser, and you are inevitably waiting on regular petrol users, who could quite happily use any of the other eleventy bowsers on the site, but choose the one which blocks you.
After you've waited for the person blocking the bowser to leave, you drive forward, but you can't get your car forward enough to get the nozzle to your car, so you have to wait for the person on front to leave as well. Of course once you finally get there and park. The tail of you car blocks the next person from being able to fill up at the petrol browser adjacent.
It's a pathetic system.
The bowsers cop all the love in the world from taxi drivers. (Though at least they are cleaner than the diesel bowser).

Filling up becomes an absolute stressful nightmare. As if it wasn't bad enough already.
On a hot day, you get less in the tank.

The ford was good in that the gas tank was in the wheel well. But they also gave you a full size spare (which I replaced with a canister).
I assume the HSV does something similar. I'd hope they would, rather than the "bomb" famous in the Falcon AU.


In short, if people think that LPG is a great fuel alternative ... get ready for a stressful time behind the wheel to "enjoy" those fuel savings.

As said ... I'd never have an LPG car again, until a better system is introduced at the petrol stations. But hey, we've had LPG and diesel for long enough in this country, and still nothing has improved ... I don't think HSV is going to change that

[bouka]

I realise the miami is good, I realise it is better then holden competition, I am disapointed it beats HSV, no I wouldn't want a FPV because I am plain not interested in that vehicle, I want a HSV. Brand loyalty builds companies.

Well said and therein lies the difference, in my opinion.

Making a decision whilst knowing all the facts about the other products is not ignorance, it is loyalty, passion etc. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. And yes, it does build brands.

Making a decision without investigating what is available and flat out denying that there are other, and sometimes better, products (or apects of) is ignorance. And yes, it does destroy products.

To deny the achievements of FPV, Prodrive and Harrop is ignorance.

To not sample it before making a decision is, in my opinion, stupidity.

To follow the heart and chose a prefered brand, armed with the knowledge of what else is out there, is passion. Nothing wrong with it AT ALL.

[TUFFIE]

Great write up Bouka, as always staright to the point, accurate to your best knowledge and no bullshit.....

wish I could say the same for some of the other my c...k is bigger that your c...k comparo's on here.

Brand loyalty...yes we need it.....ignorance.... no we don't need to be..

just my 1c worth.

[Bingo BIlly]

Im a holden purist and have been for 30 years but even ill admit if hsv think they can strap on some more gadgets and ill buy on loyalty they are dreaming, i bought holdens / hsv because they were always the better product.

Today they are slower, uglier and more pricey than the current fords/fpv. I wont be buying a ford but i wont upgrade until holden again get the accendency.

At family bbqs i like to kick sand not have sand kicked at me

[rodp]

SO freaking what if someone doesn't like Ford's new engine and prefers HSV's, they are allowed to. Would you stop supporting your footy team just because they start losing?

I realise the miami is good, I realise it is better then holden competition, I am disapointed it beats HSV, no I wouldn't want a FPV because I am plain not interested in that vehicle, I want a HSV. Brand loyalty builds companies.

Where would apple be without its fanboys?

The analogy of footy teams and cars I personally pay for never works for me. If I paid ~$25k pa to support a footy team and they kept losing, yes - I would stop supporting them. I might pay a couple of hundred bucks to support my team yearly and that I can live with. My investment into a vehicle is based on what I find best value for my money which I work damned hard for - sometimes it's Ford, sometimes it's Holden, car previous to this one was VW.

I'm a Ford fan because my old man always drove Ford. I didn't get to sit down and evaluate which vehicle was best for me during those years. Given that vehicles change significantly since he stopped buying them, why would I limit myself to one marquis when I'm forking over that sort of coin every year based solely on what my old man drove so many years ago?

[Kuzman89]

Honestly, still think the HSV is better bang for buck. Considering some of the deals they are having at the moment. Looking to upgrade once off p's. Been to a few dealerships and the price off RRP is staggering.

[michaels1v8]

That's it Holden fanboys you lost the drag race, the circuit race, get mauled on the rolling acceleration and purchase price. Get over it!! Oh hang on that was just the F6!
You did however win the consolation prize for ugliest body kit known to man however and the ability to ruin a brilliant looking car in the process..
This was closely followed by the hockey stick GT stripes hahaha nice way to stir the pot. geez anybody would think you personally designed the latest ford models :stick:

[Deco28]

The analogy of footy teams and cars I personally pay for never works for me. If I paid ~$25k pa to support a footy team and they kept losing, yes - I would stop supporting them. I might pay a couple of hundred bucks to support my team yearly and that I can live with. My investment into a vehicle is based on what I find best value for my money which I work damned hard for - sometimes it's Ford, sometimes it's Holden, car previous to this one was VW.

I'm a Ford fan because my old man always drove Ford. I didn't get to sit down and evaluate which vehicle was best for me during those years. Given that vehicles change significantly since he stopped buying them, why would I limit myself to one marquis when I'm forking over that sort of coin every year based solely on what my old man drove so many years ago?

I never said that everyone had to pick a side and stick to it. I was pointing out that it is ignorant and ridiculous to label people who don't want the Ford product no matter how good it is, as unintelligent and ill-informed. I used the footy team analogy to talk about passion, and I'll tell you now, I wouldn't and my father DIDN'T change football teams even though it cost him many thousands a year.

That shows the difference in how you percieve passion and how I embrace it. I don't expect you to see the same thing as me, Vygotsky wouldn't either.

[FireArc]

Honestly, still think the HSV is better bang for buck. Considering some of the deals they are having at the moment. Looking to upgrade once off p's. Been to a few dealerships and the price off RRP is staggering.

While i agree, it needs to be tempered with some common sense. GT vs GTS, the GTS is a clear overall winner and but it should be at over $10k more. Also, we can only compare RRP as that is the only consistent and controlled pricing mechanism we have got.

The question here for people is whether there are components of the overall package that have more weight than others. E.g. would you prefer a supercharged V8 that offers superior performance over having a touch screen?

To support your thoughts Kuzman89, the results of the recent Motor Mag track test speaks volumes for the differences in the GT and GTS. According to the track results, the GT was slower than the GTS through 7 out of the 10 corners, but posted faster lap times, and higher speeds at the end of the straights and gears.

That tells me that the GTS brakes better, handles the corners better, has better mid corner speed, and gets the power down better out of the corner. It then tells me the GT has outright brute strength to pull back the advantage and turn it into a sizable advantage each lap.

In terms of the other topic being discussed at the moment, brand loyalty is good. Brand bias and lack of respect for the competition is not. Dont be afraid to stand up and support your chosen brand, just be prepared to acknowledge the weaknesses of that brand and the strengths of your competition.

[FireArc]

hahaha nice way to stir the pot. geez anybody would think you personally designed the latest ford models :stick:

Agreed, the post adds zero value to the discussion.

[aedeau]

Saw one of the new GT's in Gatton, QLD of all places 2 days ago. Looked pretty good. I think it was a maroon-ish colour. Amazing what a new set of wheels do for the FG shape.

[Kuzman89]

While i agree, it needs to be tempered with some common sense. GT vs GTS, the GTS is a clear overall winner and but it should be at over $10k more. Also, we can only compare RRP as that is the only consistent and controlled pricing mechanism we have got.

The question here for people is whether there are components of the overall package that have more weight than others. E.g. would you prefer a supercharged V8 that offers superior performance over having a touch screen?

To support your thoughts Kuzman89, the results of the recent Motor Mag track test speaks volumes for the differences in the GT and GTS. According to the track results, the GT was slower than the GTS through 7 out of the 10 corners, but posted faster lap times, and higher speeds at the end of the straights and gears.

That tells me that the GTS brakes better, handles the corners better, has better mid corner speed, and gets the power down better out of the corner. It then tells me the GT has outright brute strength to pull back the advantage and turn it into a sizable advantage each lap.

In terms of the other topic being discussed at the moment, brand loyalty is good. Brand bias and lack of respect for the competition is not. Dont be afraid to stand up and support your chosen brand, just be prepared to acknowledge the weaknesses of that brand and the strengths of your competition.

Good post man. Specially regarding the brand loyalty. I've sat in an E3 and loved it (compared to my sv6), just waiting an opportunity to try out the FPV. Guess I'll find out sooner or later which one I prefer!

[Deco28]

I don't understand why they didn't compare the GT-P to the GTS.

The R8 goes head to head with the GT.

[F6 Hoon]

I don't understand why they didn't compare the GT-P to the GTS.

The R8 goes head to head with the GT.

And one would think that would be the logical comparison too. GT versus R8, GT-P versus GTS and GT-E versus Senator. Then, the winner can square off against the F6 :)

[Irish]

And one would think that would be the logical comparison too. GT versus R8, GT-P versus GTS and GT-E versus Senator. Then, the winner can square off against the F6 :)

The GT v R8 already happened in motor.

[feistl]

That tells me that the GTS brakes better, handles the corners better, has better mid corner speed, and gets the power down better out of the corner. It then tells me the GT has outright brute strength to pull back the advantage and turn it into a sizable advantage each lap.


brand loyalty is good.

if you look at say 80% of the cars on this forum, they've all been modified for more power NOT for a better "Package". This basically says that power is king, and ford is onto a winner. All those saying now "A better package is more important" are hypocrites.

Dont get me wrong though, i personally think the overall package is far more important. Ive spent a fortune on my VX making it brake and ride properly while being reliable with a good note. The power isnt that "impressive", but overall the car is faster (as proven at a recent track day) where a VZ with nearly 70rwkw more power and ~300kg less weight was several seconds slower per lap, and could only manage a couple of fast laps at a time compared to the 80-90 hard laps i was doing.

That said, i build a car to be properly fast not just large dyno numbers. Difference is im not modding my car to impress others...

As for loyalty, thats fine for a footy team because their trying to win at sport. Holden on the other hand are trying to sell you something, so completely different kettle of fish.

Good on ford for coming up with a decent product. Hopefully holden pull their finger out soon....

[macca_779]

feistl that's one of the most relevant and accurate posts thus far in this thread. :goodjob:
You've totally hit the nail on the head. The amount of people on this forum that modify for power alone and run around on stock suspension and shitty brakes would have to out number those that do the whole hog like us 10 to 1 at a minimum.

[sjhugh]

feistl that's one of the most relevant and accurate posts thus far in this thread. :goodjob:
You've totally hit the nail on the head. The amount of people on this forum that modify for power alone and run around on stock suspension and shitty brakes would have to out number those that do the whole hog like us 10 to 1 at a minimum.

I have to agree, it something I've noticed and commented on. When I was a wee lad sitting in my Dad’s workshop, he always said the first mod is the brakes. Everything else follows after that. This is particularly important as the stock brakes on a Holden V8 leaves a lot to be desired.

[Kuzman89]

Probably because a catback/filter change is around $500, whereas decent brakes can set you back $2000 easily. Majority of people with heavily modified cars will do suspension and brakes (from what ive seen anyway)

[Groboz]

I have to agree, it something I've noticed and commented on. When I was a wee lad sitting in my Dad’s workshop, he always said the first mod is the brakes. Everything else follows after that. This is particularly important as the stock brakes on a Holden V8 leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm another one of the converted. The money I spent on coilovers, sway bars, wide rims/tyres and big brakes I could of easily have bought that supercharger I've been lusting over. I place a greater value on superior handling than just on raw power. Better handling on the track (circuit) gains you better times overall anyway.:)

[Uwish]

Thing is, buy a GT with optioned 6 spots. Add some nice rims ( You have more choice the FPVs and their brakes aren't an issue, unlike HSVs ) lower it = Happy days owning HSV drivers all day every day.
Can not wait to buy one of these badboys.

[feistl]

Probably because a catback/filter change is around $500, whereas decent brakes can set you back $2000 easily. Majority of people with heavily modified cars will do suspension and brakes (from what ive seen anyway)

$2k doesnt go far... Decent 6 piston brakes, pads, lines and fluid and your looking at $5500+ SECOND HAND and only parts. New is $7000+....

And "proper" suspension (EG bushes, sway bars etc) is like $3k+ (More for coil overs). Add in proper cooling and a built diff and your looking at $15k minimum in total.

Now for that sort cash you could be making some pretty serious power, but it wont drive properly.


I place a greater value on superior handling than just on raw power. Better handling on the track (circuit) gains you better times overall anyway.:)

Glad to see someone else (including macca and sjhugh) get it. Hence why cars like Ferrari, Aston Martins etc dont have "that" much power, but would KILL most HSVs around a track. Power is one thing, but putting it to the ground reliably and being able to stop and turn is another. Plus being able to do more than 5 laps is far more impressive (to me) than doing one spectacually fast last at a time.

There are a number of holdens around (including on this forum) with more than 1000bhp and under 2ton, but i dont think there is a single "street" car here that could take down a veyron. Even the dedicated track/strip cars would struggle on a circuit (a few drag cars would probably be faster down the 1/4 though)

So yeah, some people prefer a complete package rather than power. And some prefer power number compared to handling etc. Both opinions are perfectly vaild and correct.

What i dont like is the people who change their opinion just to suit the argument on the day. Either ford have been better in the past due to a more complete package, or their better now with more power. Cant have it both ways guys.

(Oh and im a massive holden fan, but im not going to bag a very good car just because it wears a ford badge. Same as i wouldnt buy a holden just because its a holden. Plus theres nothing wrong with coming second once in a while. The competition is actually good for the consumer in the long run. Without FPV Holden would have the market to themselves, meaning less innovation and higher prices. Same reason i support AMD in the PC world....)

[Jarhead]

Great write up bouka! It's great to get an unbiased, intelligent report from someone that has actually driven one.

I, for one, will be seriously considering the GT again after 3 years in the R8.

Having said that I appreciate that some people are brand loyal and there is nothing wrong with that. My wife is brand loyal to a German brand and even if MB came out with a better machine she wouldn't even consider it.

There are many reasons for buying a car and to suggest that people should switch camps purely because one car is faster than the other is ridiculous. After all, if that logic was followed then Ford wouldn't have sold a single GT since it's reintroduction in the EB GT.

Being brand loyal shouldn't be confused with ignorance. Some of the comments on here are nothing short of laughable. I mean honestly, do you really think the owner of a new GT could give a $hit about some illegally modified shitbox trying to drag race her on a public road? Just today some tosser in a VP SS with no mufflers/dumped suspension and obligatory stockers on the rear (bubbled tint) window tried to entice me and my mate in his GTR35. We weren't really trying but managed to lose him in the twisty bits along Sandgate rd....only to have him scream past on the straight near Toombul shopping centre. Next set of lights he charged off in a combination of tyre and engine smoke while we ambled away slowly. Next set of lights he winds down his window and comments that our rice burner aint that fast in a straight line.:goodjob:

[EfiJy]

To be honest, forget the power vs handling arguments. Don't listen too much to individual opinions. Buy the car that's most fun and puts the biggest smile on your face. :)

It's your money, your car. You drive it differently to the next guy so your priorities may differ. I like to give my car a nice workout sometimes but you have to be careful on the road. You can't go berserk around corners or on the highway so some of the arguments are pointless for most who just drive their cars daily.

My car makes me feel good the moment I step in. When I start the engine, it's doubly good. I just love dawdling in it. It still gives me that special feeling.

[U.S.S_XR8]

Nice write up OP - Its a great time to be in the market for a performance car in Australia i reckon, both sides of the fence offering some great performance for fair prices i reckon

[FireArc]

if you look at say 80% of the cars on this forum, they've all been modified for more power NOT for a better "Package". This basically says that power is king, and ford is onto a winner. All those saying now "A better package is more important" are hypocrites.

Dont get me wrong though, i personally think the overall package is far more important. Ive spent a fortune on my VX making it brake and ride properly while being reliable with a good note. The power isnt that "impressive", but overall the car is faster (as proven at a recent track day) where a VZ with nearly 70rwkw more power and ~300kg less weight was several seconds slower per lap, and could only manage a couple of fast laps at a time compared to the 80-90 hard laps i was doing.

That said, i build a car to be properly fast not just large dyno numbers. Difference is im not modding my car to impress others...

As for loyalty, thats fine for a footy team because their trying to win at sport. Holden on the other hand are trying to sell you something, so completely different kettle of fish.

Good on ford for coming up with a decent product. Hopefully holden pull their finger out soon....

Yup, agreed, and i posted similar thoughts in the other thread about the GS while discussing with my good friend planet_davo. Its been my experience that power and performance will largely outweigh features, for the majority of buyers. Its the same story on AFF and fordxr6turbo.com; everyone goes for epic power but puts very little money into brakes/handling/etc.

IMO, using the 'overall package' as an excuse is a bit like telling someone they are pretty on the inside and 'thats all that counts'. They know and you know that thats BS.

But i think EfiJy has really hit the nail on the head. If it makes you happy, then so be it. Thats whats important.

[macca_779]

IMO, using the 'overall package' as an excuse is a bit like telling someone they are pretty on the inside and 'thats all that counts'. They know and you know that thats BS.


:bow::goodjob: Bingo.

[michaels1v8]

feistl that's one of the most relevant and accurate posts thus far in this thread. :goodjob:
You've totally hit the nail on the head. The amount of people on this forum that modify for power alone and run around on stock suspension and shitty brakes would have to out number those that do the whole hog like us 10 to 1 at a minimum.

don't stock brakes stop just as good as the performance brand in emergency braking? Thought i'd seen some test done in wheels or motor or somethin where the ss stopped just as well as the hsv in one off emergency situations? (yet faded significantly in consecutive repeat tests). . . Nothin wrong with stock suspension or brakes in street conditions imo. . Track is a whole different story

[gsw]

My thoughts on "overall package" is the company with the lowest power uses it. Kind of like it's not the size that matters but how you use it!!! Remember Tickford/FPV did this when HSV were on top. I don't know why HSV are even responding to FPV's new offer because they don't even consider them competition.:jester:

[macca_779]

My thoughts on "overall package" is the company with the lowest power uses it. Kind of like it's not the size that matters but how you use it!!! Remember Tickford/FPV did this when HSV were on top. I don't know why HSV are even responding to FPV's new offer because they don't even consider them competition.:jester:

Be hilarious if FPV came out and said they don't see HSV as a direct competitor.
Was an absolute joke when HSV officially made that stupid comment.

[macca_779]

don't stock brakes stop just as good as the performance brand in emergency braking? Thought i'd seen some test done in wheels or motor or somethin where the ss stopped just as well as the hsv in one off emergency situations? (yet faded significantly in consecutive repeat tests). . . Nothin wrong with stock suspension or brakes in street conditions imo. . Track is a whole different story

Driven a car with big brakes before? On paper there often isn't a big difference (the first stop). But trust me when you pedal a car with big brakes everyday then jump in a stocker the difference is huge. Pedal feel, linearity, part pedal power, full pedal power etc

[Evman]

But trust me when you pedal a car with big brakes everyday then jump in a stocker the difference is huge.

:yup: At the first intersection you shit yourself because you think it's not going to stop in time :lmao:

[feistl]

don't stock brakes stop just as good as the performance brand in emergency braking?

Yep, as a one off single braking application there isnt much difference. However on the second braking application you'll start to notice. By the 4th or 5th hard brake the stockies will be horrible, barely pulling the car up.

Obviously on a track you need the bigger brakes, but even for a "spirited" drives through the hills, you'll really notice.

For a stock car, stock brakes are fine. When you start talking 300 flywheel kilowatts in a "performance" car, then suddenly you've got a lot of weight going pretty quickly which needs good braking ability.

When you talk about 300rwkw modified cars, then stock brakes just dont cut it. That much power needs to be able to be stopped. Have a drive of a car with the 6 piston AP kit, and then tell me what you think.

I find the AP6s on my car are far more impressive than the 276rwkw/700nm engine. Its also more enjoyable to drive a car with a decent braking and suspension system. The ride feels much more planted and you feel more in control.

Unfortunately its hard to brag about consistent braking times down at the pub, whereas a larger "power" number will impress anyone. (Most people wont understand power to weight, drivetrain losses, torque readings/torque curves, gearing, aerodynamics etc etc that actually determine acceleration and top speed). So outright KW rating is king (which is a shame really, i guess thats why Holden/Ford tend to have a "Bogan" reputation although HSV are getting better with their latest package. Will be interesting to see if they attract a "higher" class of buyer and if the gamble pays off).

Personally, i would love to see HSV come out with a special "sports" version with stripped out interior, properly lowered with larger brakes and subtle body kit. It would a sleeper than would be a weapon on the track.

Weight kills performance, so regardless of how good the VE is, when your trying to move 1800kg you need serious power which needs good brakes, suspension and rubber. This starts getting expensive.

[michaels1v8]

Driven a car with big brakes before? On paper there often isn't a big difference (the first stop). But trust me when you pedal a car with big brakes everyday then jump in a stocker the difference is huge. Pedal feel, linearity, part pedal power, full pedal power etc

only 4 pot harrops. Agree with you on the difference, first time on them i nearly smashed my head on the windscreen. Just thought it was worth mentioning that because someone doesn't modify their brakes or suspension it doesn't necessarily mean that their car is any less safe in street situations and conditions. Some aren't interested in going around corners any faster and/or stopping hard repeatedly and will never see a track so can't see the value of it. Horses for courses.

[feistl]

only 4 pot harrops. Agree with you on the difference, first time on them i nearly smashed my head on the windscreen. Just thought it was worth mentioning that because someone doesn't modify their brakes or suspension it doesn't necessarily mean that their car is any less safe in street situations and conditions. Some aren't interested in going around corners any faster and/or stopping hard repeatedly and will never see a track so can't see the value of it. Horses for courses.

Partly true... A car with proper suspension, brakes and rubber will stop better than something completely stock. I do see what you mean though...

The VEs are a bit different, but the standard brakes on my dads WHII Statesman are woeful and not up to the job. If we've got 5 adults + luggage in the car, it weighs over 2.5 ton. the standard 2 piston front set just cant pull the car up.

If your towing as well, standard brakes are going to struggle with that much weight, even if your driving slowly.

I guess the point was, its a bit hypocritical of someone to now say that a better package is more important when they've got a stock car with massive power.

[Kuzman89]

eh, I think most buyers... "most" not being 5% of people who heavily mod their cars, would look at the overall package... rather than straight out horsepower. I'm in that category. Both cars are fast enough, .2 of a second really doesn't mean THAT much to me. I rank looks, feel, sound and handling over a few more HP. It's still early days yet, look forward to see if HSV respond.

[michaels1v8]

Partly true... A car with proper suspension, brakes and rubber will stop better than something completely stock. I do see what you mean though...

The VEs are a bit different, but the standard brakes on my dads WHII Statesman are woeful and not up to the job. If we've got 5 adults + luggage in the car, it weighs over 2.5 ton. the standard 2 piston front set just cant pull the car up.

If your towing as well, standard brakes are going to struggle with that much weight, even if your driving slowly.

I guess the point was, its a bit hypocritical of someone to now say that a better package is more important when they've got a stock car with massive power.

I can see the merits of them. Especially when towing or carrying excessive weights. What really scares me is the standard brakes on landcruisers and patrols. These are some heavy cars with brakes no better than a commodore AND are rated to tow 3 ton payloads (brake assisted trailers). Thats scary considerin how inadequate standard brakes are. . . Anyway getting a bit off topic haha

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

And one would think that would be the logical comparison too. GT versus R8, GT-P versus GTS and GT-E versus Senator. Then, the winner can square off against the F6 :)

bwahahahaah BAM SUCKERS nice one:bow:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

eh, I think most buyers... "most" not being 5% of people who heavily mod their cars, would look at the overall package... rather than straight out horsepower. I'm in that category. Both cars are fast enough, .2 of a second really doesn't mean THAT much to me. I rank looks, feel, sound and handling over a few more HP. It's still early days yet, look forward to see if HSV respond.

you obviously havnt read about the in gear acceleration of the gt.The gts is basically close o-100 but then to 180 from there its is nearly 3 secs slower. Look at the other in gear acceleration times and anyone with a gts on the road will be crying eeeevery time im sure. Imagine what will happen if someone puts some widder tyres on his gt at his next service...omg but i know thats beside the point really

[Roonstain]

Why are people so worked up about this?

People will buy what they want - who cares what someone else buys?? If someone says HSV is better, and the next person says FPV is, they are both right in their own mind - and that is the only place that matters.

I hate the styling of both, but the HSV interior is more accommodating of a bloke my size, so that wins me over in that department.
The engine I would not leave standard in either, but I enjoy the simplicity of working on LSX engines, so would prefer to go with that - it is an experience doing the work yourself and with mates, as it gives you a sense of satisfaction beyond just handing it to a workshop.

I am not in the market for either car, and won't be, mainly because of their atrocious aesthetics.

[Roonstain]

Also, neither car is a proper track car - no aussie car handles like a race car - and never will!

[Vulture]

don't stock brakes stop just as good as the performance brand in emergency braking? Thought i'd seen some test done in wheels or motor or somethin where the ss stopped just as well as the hsv in one off emergency situations? (yet faded significantly in consecutive repeat tests). . . Nothin wrong with stock suspension or brakes in street conditions imo. . Track is a whole different story

It's one of motoring's great misconceptions that big performance brake packages are better in all situations. The main advantage of large brakes is their ability to dissipate heat - hence why on a single braking application, the stockers are perfectly fine but on repeated applications, that's where the big brakes come into their own.

[FireArc]

Why are people so worked up about this?


If you think this is worked up, you should try looking at the nonsense going on at AFF. Now thats worked up. Then again, loyalists of a particular brand/team are often the most critical and demand the most out of their team/brand.

IMO LS1.com.au forum members have been largely level headed and respectful. For this thread in particular, most people are of a general consensus that the GT deserves respect, but at the end of the day its up to the buyer to put their money into the car that makes them happy.

[Wonky]

IMO LS1.com.au forum members have been largely level headed and respectful. For this thread in particular, most people are of a general consensus that the GT deserves respect, but at the end of the day its up to the buyer to put their money into the car that makes them happy.

+1 :goodjob:

[hsv-105]

I can see the merits of them. Especially when towing or carrying excessive weights. What really scares me is the standard brakes on landcruisers and patrols. These are some heavy cars with brakes no better than a commodore AND are rated to tow 3 ton payloads (brake assisted trailers). Thats scary considerin how inadequate standard brakes are. . . Anyway getting a bit off topic haha

How have you made the determination that the brakes on a Land Cruiser are inadequate mate :confused:

I've got a 200 series and the brakes are great and there isn't a safer car to tow 3 tonne IMHO.

Once I get my 24" wheels,DP Chip and Taipan exhaust I'll even blow the new coyote away :rofl:

Talk about a good thread getting off track :goodjob: Boys

[CAT600]

If you think this is worked up, you should try looking at the nonsense going on at AFF. Now thats worked up. Then again, loyalists of a particular brand/team are often the most critical and demand the most out of their team/brand.

IMO LS1.com.au forum members have been largely level headed and respectful. For this thread in particular, most people are of a general consensus that the GT deserves respect, but at the end of the day its up to the buyer to put their money into the car that makes them happy.

Plenty of criticism leveled at the new offerings by FPV over on AFF for sure. Personally, Underdeveloped/underperforming V8's, 10/23 spline input shafts on manual trans, weak tailshafts, skinny tyres and small fuel tanks are issues that still bug me. Some of those issues are resolved now and I would like to think that continual media/internerd criticism is partially responsible for improving the breed.

FPV have wide ranging vehicle/engine/transmission choices now but it has been a long time coming. Holden and HSV have had great times with the advent of the LS engine in '99, VT-VZ Coupe body's (Love 'em!) and the W427 Halo car (Epic).... even though the T6 has been a winner for us, the Miami (Coyote) is just what we needed and not a minute too soon.

As has been said, HSV will now be spurred on again and in this way together we can do what is really important... flog the Jap's and Euro's while stoushing with each other along the way.

Daniel

[FireArc]

As has been said, HSV will now be spurred on again and in this way together we can do what is really important... flog the Jap's and Euro's while stoushing with each other along the way.
Daniel

:headbang: :cheers:

[EfiJy]

Plenty of criticism leveled at the new offerings by FPV over on AFF for sure. Personally, Underdeveloped/underperforming V8's, 10/23 spline input shafts on manual trans, weak tailshafts, skinny tyres and small fuel tanks are issues that still bug me. Some of those issues are resolved now and I would like to think that continual media/internerd criticism is partially responsible for improving the breed.

FPV have wide ranging vehicle/engine/transmission choices now but it has been a long time coming. Holden and HSV have had great times with the advent of the LS engine in '99, VT-VZ Coupe body's (Love 'em!) and the W427 Halo car (Epic).... even though the T6 has been a winner for us, the Miami (Coyote) is just what we needed and not a minute too soon.

As has been said, HSV will now be spurred on again and in this way together we can do what is really important... flog the Jap's and Euro's while stoushing with each other along the way.

Daniel

I admit, I was critical of FPV for not adding an intercooler to the new engine. But the more I think about it, the more I think FPV played it smart. They probably still haven't developed the engine as much as they plan to because they simply don't need to. They have HSV covered. Besides, the F6 is still the benchmark for ultimate performance until FPV develop the BOSS engine to its potential or until HSV pull their finger out.

We have such great performance cars to be proud of. As a buyer, you would have some serious issues if you dismiss the cars without first driving all of them or at least looking at them. The FPVs today are to be respected, for sure. They may not appeal to everybody but they build some solid machinery.

Having said that, I wonder if we have reached the point where these cars will be as nice to drive with all the extra grunt. The FG GT was a good handling car before but with the extra torque of the S/C BOSS, it seems to have lost its chassis balance despite losing some weight from the front.

[Irish]

I admit, I was critical of FPV for not adding an intercooler to the new engine. But the more I think about it, the more I think FPV played it smart. They probably still haven't developed the engine as much as they plan to because they simply don't need to. They have HSV covered. Besides, the F6 is still the benchmark for ultimate performance until FPV develop the BOSS engine to its potential or until HSV pull their finger out.



FPV developed three levels of S/C 5.0 simultaneously. Two have been released. The other has an intercooler.

[CAT600]

I admit, I was critical of FPV for not adding an intercooler to the new engine. But the more I think about it, the more I think FPV played it smart. They probably still haven't developed the engine as much as they plan to because they simply don't need to. They have HSV covered. Besides, the F6 is still the benchmark for ultimate performance until FPV develop the BOSS engine to its potential or until HSV pull their finger out.

We have such great performance cars to be proud of. As a buyer, you would have some serious issues if you dismiss the cars without first driving all of them or at least looking at them. The FPVs today are to be respected, for sure. They may not appeal to everybody but they build some solid machinery.

Having said that, I wonder if we have reached the point where these cars will be as nice to drive with all the extra grunt. The FG GT was a good handling car before but with the extra torque of the S/C BOSS, it seems to have lost its chassis balance despite losing some weight from the front.
You know that with a set of decent rods and the prototype short runner intake a Boss 5.4L @ 7000-7500rpm would have been a pretty stout bit of gear. Then when the 5.4L alloy block came to the table in 2005 it could have been even better again.

Ford/FPV in Australia went it alone with the Boss and did not do the "330ci 4V" engine combo much justice IMO, and they admit that know in recent revelations that Ford USA told them not to do it.... and that such a program would not fly in todays environment.

This Miami engine is different, in that Ford USA approve the program, have supported to a degree with OEM improved production pieces (beefed up Metaldyne conrods and Mahle-OEM piston design among other forms of support)

And FWIW, I agree with your comments re: the intercooler or lack thereof..... bring on the 375+ kw "Spiritual GTHO"

Daniel

[Black Diamond]

One thing people cant forget when they compare the power levels and performance of these cars is you cant compare ATMO engines to Forced induction. So fair enough, the miami wins hands down to its main competitor, and its warranted.

People dont care whats under the hood when the hammer drops, its how many ponies are there that counts.
Ford fans have every right to be smiling and believe me i would have the biggest grin of all if i was a hardcore ford man.
But realistically we need to compare apples with apples.
Slapping a blower on top is an easy way of making more horsepower, without doing it the hard way like HSV have.
I bet if HSV released a Blown LS3, ford fans would probably being hanging their hats on the cubic inch debate and it would be warranted because it would certainly make a lot more power than the ford, but at least we would be comparing 2 blown V8,s

To be honest im pretty excited to see whats gunna roll out of the HSV stable next....

[CAT600]

One thing people cant forget when they compare the power levels and performance of these cars is you cant compare ATMO engines to Forced induction. So fair enough, the miami wins hands down to its main competitor, and its warranted.

People dont care whats under the hood when the hammer drops, its how many ponies are there that counts.
Ford fans have every right to be smiling and believe me i would have the biggest grin of all if i was a hardcore ford man.
But realistically we need to compare apples with apples.
Slapping a blower on top is an easy way of making more horsepower, without doing it the hard way like HSV have.
I bet if HSV released a Blown LS3, ford fans would probably being hanging their hats on the cubic inch debate and it would be warranted because it would certainly make a lot more power than the ford, but at least we would be comparing 2 blown V8,s

To be honest im pretty excited to see whats gunna roll out of the HSV stable next....
Agree with all of the above, even to the point where many guys on AFF bag out the "unsophisticated" approach of a big cube, relatively low hp/L pushrod engine such as the LS series of powerplants.

Me personally?.... I couldnt give a toss about hp/L, to me its about hp/kg or hp/cm3 of the engine itself and how its sits in between the rails. And in that respect the LS engines (especially in all-alloy form) tick many boxes. While a 6.2L OHC with an alloy block would likely make more power and be more efficient it would still take up more space under the hood and still weigh a little more.

So what is the best way to combat the inheirant flaws of a bulky, small capacity engine?.... a positive displacement blower nestled in the dry valley of a wide OHC V8 ticks all the boxes, when your 5.0L engine with 15psi becomes a 10L engine still with baby cams, a sweet idle and 800 engine horsepower on pump fuel how can you go wrong?

Bring on the LSA, if HSV released a LSA powered Coupe in 2014 my backside would be in one and I AM a hardcore Ford guy.

Daniel

[EfiJy]

One thing people cant forget when they compare the power levels and performance of these cars is you cant compare ATMO engines to Forced induction. So fair enough, the miami wins hands down to its main competitor, and its warranted.

People dont care whats under the hood when the hammer drops, its how many ponies are there that counts.
Ford fans have every right to be smiling and believe me i would have the biggest grin of all if i was a hardcore ford man.
But realistically we need to compare apples with apples.
Slapping a blower on top is an easy way of making more horsepower, without doing it the hard way like HSV have.
I bet if HSV released a Blown LS3, ford fans would probably being hanging their hats on the cubic inch debate and it would be warranted because it would certainly make a lot more power than the ford, but at least we would be comparing 2 blown V8,s

To be honest im pretty excited to see whats gunna roll out of the HSV stable next....

That's why FPV played the performance game the smart way. With 4 cams and 4v per cylinder, the best performance option for them would be to just add a blower. Granted, the rods and pistons are different but you do get full factory warranty. :goodjob:

The LS punter still has more options. Cam, bolt ons, blower, tune etc.. There's something there for everyone. But obviously no warranty on mods.

[sh|tbmxrider]

One thing people cant forget when they compare the power levels and performance of these cars is you cant compare ATMO engines to Forced induction. So fair enough, the miami wins hands down to its main competitor, and its warranted.

People dont care whats under the hood when the hammer drops, its how many ponies are there that counts.
Ford fans have every right to be smiling and believe me i would have the biggest grin of all if i was a hardcore ford man.
But realistically we need to compare apples with apples.
Slapping a blower on top is an easy way of making more horsepower, without doing it the hard way like HSV have.
I bet if HSV released a Blown LS3, ford fans would probably being hanging their hats on the cubic inch debate and it would be warranted because it would certainly make a lot more power than the ford, but at least we would be comparing 2 blown V8,s

To be honest im pretty excited to see whats gunna roll out of the HSV stable next....

I want your job if you consider browsing thru the GM Performance Catalog *hard work*

[michaels1v8]

How have you made the determination that the brakes on a Land Cruiser are inadequate mate :confused:

I've got a 200 series and the brakes are great and there isn't a safer car to tow 3 tonne IMHO.

Once I get my 24" wheels,DP Chip and Taipan exhaust I'll even blow the new coyote away :rofl:

Talk about a good thread getting off track :goodjob: Boys

really? How much weight are you carrying/towing My father's patrol cab chassis is lighter than the new landcruisers (kerb weight of 2t compared to 2.2t-2.9t for the new landys and running similar size disc brakes) and when loaded up with a 2.5t boat on the back it scares the crap out of me and would be impossible to pull up in a hurry. I just assumed the landcruiser would perform similar. I'll agree that there's nothin else you'd rather be towing with. We've done the exhaust/turbo/cai/tune on his patrol and its a pleasure to tow with now.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

One thing people cant forget when they compare the power levels and performance of these cars is you cant compare ATMO engines to Forced induction. So fair enough, the miami wins hands down to its main competitor, and its warranted.

People dont care whats under the hood when the hammer drops, its how many ponies are there that counts.
Ford fans have every right to be smiling and believe me i would have the biggest grin of all if i was a hardcore ford man.
But realistically we need to compare apples with apples.
Slapping a blower on top is an easy way of making more horsepower, without doing it the hard way like HSV have.
I bet if HSV released a Blown LS3, ford fans would probably being hanging their hats on the cubic inch debate and it would be warranted because it would certainly make a lot more power than the ford, but at least we would be comparing 2 blown V8,s

To be honest im pretty excited to see whats gunna roll out of the HSV stable next....

ANOTHER extremely irelevant post....the boss is only 5litres with a charger, the hsv is massive in comparison...so yes they are both in the end comparable...they are apples for apples...there the best both the companies are putting forward at similar performance levels. And if hsv want to supercharge then so be it...but till then its a pipe dream...or fpv can just say back to u...ahh well do a twin carger setup. Unless u have the package on the showroom floor no more to pay WITH WARRANTY it is not comparable

Oh i like how u say hsv have done it the hardway...what u mean buy gettong a crate engine...no engineering and going with that foe years +....somehow i think THEY HAVE taken the easy way:confused:

[Spoolin]

I don't understand how people can still not see the relevance of comparing two traditional rivals becuase one is atmo and the other supercharged?
Why is it ok to compare a blown Merc to an NA BMW, but not ok for two Aussie cars:confused:
Can't people see how the Europeans are using boost in the form of turbocharger or supercharger not only to increase performance but to make the cubic capacity smaller and running more efficient engines.

Creating a list as long as a toilet roll for upgrades for the LS engine is irrelevent. How can you compare a bone stock 100% legal and warranted product to one that is not?

[Pickles]

ANOTHER extremely irelevant post....the boss is only 5litres with a charger, the hsv is massive in comparison...so yes they are both in the end comparable...they are apples for apples...there the best both the companies are putting forward at similar performance levels. And if hsv want to supercharge then so be it...but till then its a pipe dream...or fpv can just say back to u...ahh well do a twin carger setup. Unless u have the package on the showroom floor no more to pay WITH WARRANTY it is not comparable

Oh i like how u say hsv have done it the hardway...what u mean buy gettong a crate engine...no engineering and going with that foe years +....somehow i think THEY HAVE taken the easy way:confused:

Hard way/Soft way.....doesn't matter which way you look at it......HSV have gone the way they have because they HAVE had access to a proven range of excellent engines that have comprehensively thrashed the opposition for years. Why spend, as FPV are said to have , $40M, when you don't have to. I would suggest that if FPV had access to a "drop in" engine, they would have used it, just as Ford did with the Windsor/Cleveland engines years ago.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Black Diamond]

ANOTHER extremely irelevant post....
Seems like your the only one here who has posts of relevance, so why don't we all just back off and sit back and listen to what you have to say?

Hard way/Soft way.....doesn't matter which way you look at it......HSV have gone the way they have because they HAVE had access to a proven range of excellent engines that have comprehensively thrashed the opposition for years. Why spend, as FPV are said to have , $40M, when you don't have to. I would suggest that if FPV had access to a "drop in" engine, they would have used it, just as Ford did with the Windsor/Cleveland engines years ago.
Cheers, Pickles.

Well said Martin.

Anyway, back to the OP. These things should be quiet easily turned into monsters when some Tuners get their hands on them. Well done Ford.
Cheers

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

well interesting you mention tunes. XFT have today dynoed another customers GT and got a whopping 333RWKWs he also did what he calls a very quick tune and its now......355RWKWs


stock
http://twitpic.com/35r0a5

quick tune
http://twitpic.com/35r0oj


just some more details for the haters lol

[FireArc]

Damn...so in terms of baseline runs, two tuners have produced 260-265rwkw for their stock as a rock GS, and now two tuners have gotten about 330rwkw for their stock as a rock GT...hmmm i'm starting to see a trend of basline power!!

333rwkw for a tuned GS is good...but 355rwkw tune only for the GT is epic!

[macca_779]

Damn...so in terms of baseline runs, two tuners have produced 260-265rwkw for their stock as a rock GS, and now two tuners have gotten about 330rwkw for their stock as a rock GT...hmmm i'm starting to see a trend of basline power!!

333rwkw for a tuned GS is good...but 355rwkw tune only for the GT is epic!

355rwkw is nothing by the sounds of it. And its an Auto. The guy that did it had this to say "Im not joking when i say i cut 1 blade of grass on a football field as far as tuning goes"

Hell the boost is still borderline homosexual.. Will someone lean on these things already.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/191071599.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1289452034&Signature=2ZEHmbAwXe4IwiJXm8Z6VrI9ftc%3D

[zorro]

Seems like your the only one here who has posts of relevance, so why don't we all just back off and sit back and listen to what you have to say?


we will have to wait for next months motor/wheels to come out BD, I think he has quoted all he can out of this months :lmao:

[Vulture]

Hell the boost is still borderline homosexual.. Will someone lean on these things already.

:lol: these things are going to be fast!
Note to self: do not take on a tuned Miami in a mildly warmed over HSV :bawl:

[FOON]

355rwkw is nothing by the sounds of it. And its an Auto. The guy that did it had this to say "Im not joking when i say i cut 1 blade of grass on a football field as far as tuning goes"

Hell the boost is still borderline homosexual.. Will someone lean on these things already.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/191071599.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1289452034&Signature=2ZEHmbAwXe4IwiJXm8Z6VrI9ftc%3D

Here here, can't wait to see what these things are going like once they become more mainstream.

[macca_779]

:lol: these things are going to be fast!
Note to self: do not take on a tuned Miami in a mildly warmed over HSV :bawl:

Note to self do not take on a GT period.. I farking want one I'm jumping ship.

[zorro]

I do recall reading that Harrop will not be doing an I/C for these at all, wont be long for the aftermarket to have a go and I reckon you will have some very respectable GTs getting around the traps.

[FOON]

I do recall reading that Harrop will not be doing an I/C for these at all, wont be long for the aftermarket to have a go and I reckon you will have some very respectable GTs getting around the traps.

FPV have developed this engine with an intercooler but are waiting for a more prudent time to release it.

[EfiJy]

Note to self do not take on a GT period.. I farking want one I'm jumping ship.

I hope you do and I hope you buy it.

At least that way we won't have to read whinge after whinge from a disgruntled HSV owner who sounds like he's spent too much coin on his ride......only to regret every pretty penny......

No offence mate just that some of us do like our HSVs no matter what's out in the market place.

[Swordie]

I enjoyed reading the review of the new Ford.

I saw one last Sunday at Sandown being used a pace car. It looked quite good in the flesh. I could hear the whistle of the supercharger from quite a distance. First hearing it reminded me of the sound of Mad Max’s car.

It’s great we have choice in Australia of good Muscle Cars.

[CAT600]

well interesting you mention tunes. XFT have today dynoed another customers GT and got a whopping 333RWKWs he also did what he calls a very quick tune and its now......355RWKWs

just some more details for the haters lol
Yep, I brought an Auto 335 around to XFT and it rattled off 325rwkw first pass. I thought "stuff this" and cranked it down tighter on the dyno and it picked up another 8rwkw to 333.

Awesome car, awesome power.... cant wait to see one at the drags with the torque truncations out of it.

Daniel

[gsw]

Just goes to show there was no hotted up media cars like some have alleged.

[macca_779]

I hope you do and I hope you buy it.

At least that way we won't have to read whinge after whinge from a disgruntled HSV owner who sounds like he's spent too much coin on his ride......only to regret every pretty penny......

No offence mate just that some of us do like our HSVs no matter what's out in the market place.

WTF. I don't regret spending money on my cars. I still like HSV's very much. But if I was in the market for a new car it probably wouldn't be one considering what you get for the money.

HSV has been very arrogant over the last few years with regards to their competition. From saying things like they don't compete with FPV, to charging ludicrous premiums for higher end models that offer little over the base ones. Even down to how they have totally devalued premium models like the GTS offering little to zero performance premium.
To say that I'm happy to see FPV wipe their smug face in it is an understatement. Good on the underdog, as I find it hilarious.

[EfiJy]

Yep, I brought an Auto 335 around to XFT and it rattled off 325rwkw first pass. I thought "stuff this" and cranked it down tighter on the dyno and it picked up another 8rwkw to 333.

Awesome car, awesome power.... cant wait to see one at the drags with the torque truncations out of it.

Daniel

I believe you but I'm skeptical of the dyno. If it did make that much power, I'd be expecting the press to do 12s runs every time. As yet, it hasn't been able to better the W427s time even though it puts out around 100hp more. In fact, it hasn't or can't beat an F6. :confused:

The chart indicates the run was done in 3rd gear. Why was this so?

Anyway, I can't wait to have my turn behind the wheel to find out what all the fuss is about.

[EfiJy]

WTF. I don't regret spending money on my cars. I still like HSV's very much. But if I was in the market for a new car it probably wouldn't be one considering what you get for the money.

HSV has been very arrogant over the last few years with regards to their competition. From saying things like they don't compete with FPV, to charging ludicrous premiums for higher end models that offer little over the base ones. Even down to how they have totally devalued premium models like the GTS offering little to zero performance premium.
To say that I'm happy to see FPV wipe their smug face in it is an understatement. Good on the underdog, as I find it hilarious.

Take a step back fella. HSV had the better V8 up until now. So I can understand the arrogance. But the battle is not over. It's HSV's turn to respond but I won't be rushing out to get a blown V8 any time soon.

I'm happy with the power my car makes, thanks. Call me arrogant, I don't care one bit.

[macca_779]

I believe you but I'm skeptical of the dyno. If it did make that much power, I'd be expecting the press to do 12s runs every time. As yet, it hasn't been able to better the W427s time even though it puts out around 100hp more. In fact, it hasn't or can't beat an F6. :confused:

The chart indicates the run was done in 3rd gear. Why was this so?

Anyway, I can't wait to have my turn behind the wheel to find out what all the fuss is about.

That dyno is renowned for being accurate, guys that know it well and too were sceptical are eating their words. As for the times and MPH at the strip. I have an explanation for that. The Ford controllers are very torque management based (like euro gear). Torque delivery through low gears clearly is heavily retarded. That also shows in the shifts which XFT has confirmed when scouting through the tune.
On a dyno in 3rd gear there won't be anywhere near as much torque managment coming into play. Hence it is let to produce numbers that do not necessarily correlate to its strip times. Want proof of that you only have to look at how it compares to a GTS. Very similar over the quarter. But up to 180km/h its seconds in front.

[CAT600]

I believe you but I'm skeptical of the dyno. If it did make that much power, I'd be expecting the press to do 12s runs every time. As yet, it hasn't been able to better the W427s time even though it puts out around 100hp more. In fact, it hasn't or can't beat an F6. :confused:

The chart indicates the run was done in 3rd gear. Why was this so?

Anyway, I can't wait to have my turn behind the wheel to find out what all the fuss is about.

No need to fear the dyno, both Simons F6 and my AU has backed up within a couple of hp to Active Automotives dyno in recent times..... Stock FG F6's make 270-290rwkw stock on this dyno and the 333rwkw is a real number.

Slow mph.... I have been questioning this myself of AFF and now that I have driven the GT I can see where the torque truncations and timing being pulled out on long WOT applications is costing a few mph.

With these limits out an auto GT will run a low 12 easy as.

BTW the 3rd gear is because its and auto... 4th is 1.14:1 and with a 2.73:1 rear gear means 3rd must be used to conserve roller rpm.

Daniel

[macca_779]

Take a step back fella. HSV had the better V8 up until now. So I can understand the arrogance. But the battle is not over. It's HSV's turn to respond but I won't be rushing out to get a blown V8 any time soon.

I'm happy with the power my car makes, thanks. Call me arrogant, I don't care one bit.

Ya damm right they had the better V8. Its the only reason I ever stepped into a Holden in the first place.

[bouka]

If you can see past the badge and appreciate that is a factory offering you will enjoy the experience. It is a fine motor.

It is also as detuned and as down specked as it can be. It's potential really is enormous.

On another note, how about we keep the personnal attacks out of the thread.

The thread is centered around opinions and dsicussions on the Miami motor.

[701let]

well interesting you mention tunes. XFT have today dynoed another customers GT and got a whopping 333RWKWs he also did what he calls a very quick tune and its now......355RWKWs


stock
http://twitpic.com/35r0a5

quick tune
http://twitpic.com/35r0oj


just some more details for the haters lol

hahah mate you're a pissa! in case you didnt realise its ls1.com ... no one cares.. theyre all series 7 AU's to the people on here... they all end up the same...

[EfiJy]

On another note, how about we keep the personnal attacks out of the thread.


Funny that, I thought it was a little bit uncalled for.


Yeah Yeah that's right. Its not the size that matters, but rather how you use it. :weirdo:
All well and good to say buy what you like. But who cares which goes faster.. Mate, most do or we wouldn't be buying performance cars.

Oh that's right, that was the other thread with basically the same theme.

Power is everything. You learn something all the time. :goodjob:

[Wonky]

hahah mate you're a pissa! in case you didnt realise its ls1.com ... no one cares.. theyre all series 7 AU's to the people on here... they all end up the same...

Disagree. Even those people who won't jump ship (I've previously had 2 Fords but irrespective of power I don't like the look of the FG) will appreciate that such competition between FPV and HSV is good for the red team too because HSV will have to respond in some way. Shorter term the response may only be price reductions in order to sell a competitive number of cars but that's good for those who haven't recently bought one.

[NODDY347]

I don't expect hsv will do anything to respond to fpv's new speed as they don't consider them to be a compeditor. lol

[EfiJy]

John Bowe thinks its great.

YouTube - JB-2010GT-P.flv

Nice vid. :)

[CAT600]

hahah mate you're a pissa! in case you didnt realise its ls1.com ... no one cares.. theyre all series 7 AU's to the people on here... they all end up the same...

Picking on the AU hey?..... one day you might cross the wrong one and get smoked badly.

I thought this was about the Miami engine anyway.

Daniel

[Phizzle]

Picking on the AU hey?..... one day you might cross the wrong one and get smoked badly.

I thought this was about the Miami engine anyway.

Daniel

FEAR THE TERMINATOR!!!! I was at Motorvation with you guys in the GC8 with the straight cut gears (or was that you were with us LOL). Farkin epic motor that AU had not to mention rear wheel width :goodjob: Good to see you and Ramon having fun today. And con-friggin-grats on the base run and further tweaking!! Can't wait to see what Simon can do with an aftermarket intercooler and some other tricky bits....but then again, is there really a need with the potential for 400rwkw basically stock with a tune? Unreal. :eyes:

[CAT600]

FEAR THE TERMINATOR!!!! I was at Motorvation with you guys in the GC8 with the straight cut gears (or was that you were with us LOL). Farkin epic motor that AU had not to mention rear wheel width :goodjob: Good to see you and Ramon having fun today. And con-friggin-grats on the base run and further tweaking!! Can't wait to see what Simon can do with an aftermarket intercooler and some other tricky bits....but then again, is there really a need with the potential for 400rwkw basically stock with a tune? Unreal. :eyes:
Haha yeah its a good thing alright... so much better now with the spooled 35 spline 9" and the PPG Dog Box T56 :bow: Full throttle flatshifting at 7300 is awesome man!

Daniel

[EfiJy]

If this GT has 335 rwkw why does it 'only' run 114mph?

Granted, it might not hook up very well but the mph shouldn't change much unless I've got my facts completely wrong.

From mph alone it looks like its line ball with the F6.

[CAT600]

If this GT has 335 rwkw why does it 'only' run 114mph?

Granted, it might not hook up very well but the mph shouldn't change much unless I've got my facts completely wrong.

From mph alone it looks like its line ball with the F6.

Hahaha.... Mate.... do yourself a favour and have a look at the shitstorm that I got myself into over on AFF for arguing the very same point not two weeks ago. It was the driving point behind me going and getting a 335 GT today to try and prove everyone wrong about the apparent 328rwkw claim a while ago.

I got another example of a 335kw car, on a very reputable dyno, strapped it down tight as buggery (like 80% as tight as my 510rwkw twin turbo 4.6L FFS) and it made 333rwkw

Believe the numbers man, the low mph is ugly torque truncations and timing being pulled after long periods of WOT.

330rwkw is a real number I shit you not.

Daniel

[macca_779]

If this GT has 335 rwkw why does it 'only' run 114mph?

Granted, it might not hook up very well but the mph shouldn't change much unless I've got my facts completely wrong.

From mph alone it looks like its line ball with the F6.

Torque Management is key here. If you ever get the chance to drive a Turbo Mondeo it is the perfect example of it that I've experienced. 1st and most of 2nd gear are incredibly held back. Hit 3rd and its a completely different experience. The old relating MPH to Dyno power is somewhat irrelevant in modern cars because of how the controllers perform.. Good thing is, its easy to turn off. ;)

[macca_779]

Hahaha.... Mate.... do yourself a favour and have a look at the shitstorm that I got myself into over on AFF for arguing the very same point not two weeks ago. It was the driving point behind me going and getting a 335 GT today to try and prove everyone wrong about the apparent 328rwkw claim a while ago.

I got another example of a 335kw car, on a very reputable dyno, strapped it down tight as buggery (like 80% as tight as my 510rwkw twin turbo 4.6L FFS) and it made 333rwkw

Believe the numbers man, the low mph is ugly torque truncations and timing being pulled after long periods of WOT.

330rwkw is a real number I shit you not.


Daniel

The funny thing is Ford may well have tuned it to 335fwkw. On an engine dyno though. As we can clearly see, torque management is a mofo, but it can work both ways in that with the calibration set for no trans etc that's what it was developed to spit out. In a car with a trans behind it and multiple ratios it's well within the scope of the programming to behave differently.

I can see it now. Bean counter says to FPV powertrain engineer. "we want it to put out this amount of power". He says, "no problems" and builds the mapping on the engine dyno to accommodate. Later on during road validation testing he winds off the top 3 gears torque limitations. The rest is history... (insert Borat accent) Naughty Naughty.

[smokey777]

see the only thing i hate about this is the childish crap that comes out in certain people. people ford has a great motor so good i say. and to behonest people who have to go from car brand to car brand just because its more powerfull it makes me laugh :jester: i mean words in here like "i like to be the one kicking sand in the face at bbqs" i mean what a ****ing joke....
grow up people this is the way all things go sometimes ya up sometimes ya not who cares lol just enjoy what ya want. this really shows the colours of some people. its nearly as bad as them "OMG cops picked on me for nothin bro.." threads.

[bok1]

the zf box at the moment is only rated to 600nm so it will be interesting to see what happens and how long these boxes last without problems.

phil

[Ghia351]

the zf box at the moment is only rated to 600nm so it will be interesting to see what happens and how long these boxes last without problems.

philNot sure what the new rating is however this was released early on:
Automatic Transmission

* Upgraded ZF 6HP26 transmission
* New 7 plate clutch pack and 4 planet planetary gearset for improved torque capacity

[steve_t]

see the only thing i hate about this is the childish crap that comes out in certain people. people ford has a great motor so good i say. and to behonest people who have to go from car brand to car brand just because its more powerfull it makes me laugh :jester: i mean words in here like "i like to be the one kicking sand in the face at bbqs" i mean what a ****ing joke....
grow up people this is the way all things go sometimes ya up sometimes ya not who cares lol just enjoy what ya want. this really shows the colours of some people. its nearly as bad as them "OMG cops picked on me for nothin bro.." threads.

LOL @ laughing at people who go from car brand to car brand to get the more powerful car (which probably in their mind is the better car), and then telling them just to just enjoy what they want. Ummm... I think these people are enjoying what they want more than a lot of others :goodjob:

[bouka]

Would be a pretty dull world if consumers and manufacturers didn't strive for more.

HSV will respond to the Miami. Don't expect it to be before VF at the end of 2013 though. Will it be enough? Hope so.

At the moment the Miami is a clear leader. The aftermarket will highlight this even further (from a bang for buck and outright performance point of view).

From a mechanical point of view, this is a very good package.

[vr5speedv6]

Torque Management is key here. If you ever get the chance to drive a Turbo Mondeo it is the perfect example of it that I've experienced. 1st and most of 2nd gear are incredibly held back. Hit 3rd and its a completely different experience. The old relating MPH to Dyno power is somewhat irrelevant in modern cars because of how the controllers perform.. Good thing is, its easy to turn off. ;)


After reading through this thread (http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11313933) I'd be leaving it on!! I think there's going to be enough failures for ford to deal with left stock.

[NODDY347]

After reading through this thread (http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11313933) I'd be leaving it on!! I think there's going to be enough failures for ford to deal with left stock.

After listening to Toby Hagan's interview and other journo's that haver tested this particular car i'm not suprised there has been a failure.

It has been flogged.

Fpv better hope this doesn't become an issue in customer cars because the 2% of people that will want to play with the tunes and torque tags will find the limits of the driveline very quickly. As they say you play you pay. Imo i think making the first edition of the Miami GT so potent (333rwkws) is a mistake. As one tuner has found 10mins playing with the tune 350rwkws.

Personally i would have been happy with the thing making 250-60rwkw, the off idle torque delivery was ultimately what the 5.4 was missing. Then they probably could have used less ecu intervention on the auto. Dan did mention it is very noticeable on the test drive he had. Then look at driveline durability in FG2 and turn the wick up.

Don't get me wrong i love the idea of having a factory backed low 12sec V8 family sedan but if this driveline issue rears its head again it will destroy all the good publicity that FPV are receiving atm.

[vr5speedv6]

Don't get me wrong i love the idea of having a factory backed low 12sec V8 family sedan but if this driveline issue rears its head again it will destroy all the good publicity that FPV are receiving atm.

We can only hope:rofl:

[macca_779]

I think stock they will be fine. FPV have done the validation testing to determine the driveline good enough. For aftermarket it may mean guys do a package. Ie buy a tune get a tailshaft lol.

[bouka]

Thrash any car that hard for that long and you will see some sort of breakage. And have no doubt, it would have been thrashed from the first turn of the key.

One off is ok (in the scheme of things and under the conditions. I hope, for FPV's sake, that it doesn't become common.

[cosmo vyss]

Thrash any car that hard for that long and you will see some sort of breakage. And have no doubt, it would have been thrashed from the first turn of the key.

One off is ok (in the scheme of things and under the conditions. I hope, for FPV's sake, that it doesn't become common.

wow 14 pages of dribble about a ford on a holden forum. I bet the ford guys are laughing at us.

We know its a good engine and a overall decent package. It is what it is, Bouka has posted his thoughts and impressions of driving it. Lets leave ithis thread to the drive impressions of how it drove, what it was like. Do not make it a holden vs ford thing and then go into drivetrain breakages etc. There is really no need for it. All model cars have breakages it just the way motoring world is. We notice it here more because we all tend to drive holdens and if something breaks.....guess what it is usually a holden. The ford guys are going to have breakages as well. The press cars are always the culprits.

[steve_t]

wow 14 pages of dribble about a ford on a holden forum. I bet the ford guys are laughing at us.

We know its a good engine a decent package. It is what it is, Bouka has posted his thoughts and impressions of driving it. Lets leave it to the drive and the impressions of how it drove, not make it a holden vs ford thing and then go into drivetrain breakages etc. There is really no need for it.

I've only got 6 pages :goodjob:

Here's an idea - let's ban discussion on anything not related to holdens on this forum just cos it's a holden forum :confused: I mean, what's the deal with people having discussions on a forum?! It's just madness :bash:

[smokey777]

LOL @ laughing at people who go from car brand to car brand to get the more powerful car (which probably in their mind is the better car), and then telling them just to just enjoy what they want. Ummm... I think these people are enjoying what they want more than a lot of others :goodjob:

lol didnt notice that.. well ya ya get my meaning anyway

[vr5speedv6]

wow 14 pages of dribble about a ford on a holden forum. I bet the ford guys are laughing at us.

We know its a good engine and a overall decent package. It is what it is, Bouka has posted his thoughts and impressions of driving it. Lets leave ithis thread to the drive impressions of how it drove, what it was like. Do not make it a holden vs ford thing and then go into drivetrain breakages etc. There is really no need for it. All model cars have breakages it just the way motoring world is. We notice it here more because we all tend to drive holdens and if something breaks.....guess what it is usually a holden. The ford guys are going to have breakages as well. The press cars are always the culprits.

Have a read of the thread I linked, to me it doesn't sound like it'll be a one-off unusual failure. Hopefully ford has been just as thorough in their "torture testing" of the new motor:rofl:
Here's a bit of info from the thread about the tailshaft (posted by CAT600):

"The factory tailshafts are junk Norm. From the thinwalled tubes to the overly soft centre bearing that distorts under heavy load they cannot be expected to survive the coming series of manual trans PD blown cars. The V8 autos can be just as hard on the centre bearing as that model has the longest tailshaft length and places the most "whip" on the centre bearing.

When I saw the photos of the inverted "display GT" from the motorshow last month I feared that FPV had not touched the tailshaft..... too bad because its a $1500 mod to upgrade it aftermarket."

[cosmo vyss]

I've only got 6 pages :goodjob:

Here's an idea - let's ban discussion on anything not related to holdens on this forum just cos it's a holden forum :confused: I mean, what's the deal with people having discussions on a forum?! It's just madness :bash:

No I am not saying ban all discussion on other badges. Just don't let it slide into a debate about reliablilty and breakages and the like. This thread is about the way the test driver thought the car drove and his impressions of it. It wasn't about whats is holden going to do next, what is going to break first, how much power is it going to make after it has been tuned. There are other threads for that.

Point being ask questions relating to the drive experience, car feel, performance and not the ford vs holden. :soap:

[Groboz]

No I am not saying ban all discussion on other badges. Just don't let it slide into a debate about reliablilty and breakages and the like. This thread is about the way the test driver thought the car drove and his impressions of it. It wasn't about whats is holden going to do next, what is going to break first, how much power is it going to make after it has been tuned. There are other threads for that.

Point being ask questions relating to the drive experience, car feel, performance and not the ford vs holden. :soap:

What he said. :goodjob:

[vr5speedv6]

No I am not saying ban all discussion on other badges. Just don't let it slide into a debate about reliablilty and breakages and the like. This thread is about the way the test driver thought the car drove and his impressions of it. It wasn't about whats is holden going to do next, what is going to break first, how much power is it going to make after it has been tuned. There are other threads for that.

Point being ask questions relating to the drive experience, car feel, performance and not the ford vs holden. :soap:

Mate as you said earlier, it's a Holden forum so I'd hate to see 10+ threads on a ford. Obviously it's more relevant to the other ford thread, but I'm not really interested in keeping it clean for all the ford lovers on here:rofl:

[Deco28]

As you may have seen, the 'total package' has sold a more expensive maloo ute over the GS ute. Sure he won't be the only one.

Just saying.

[Bingo BIlly]

and to behonest people who have to go from car brand to car brand just because its more powerfull it makes me laugh :jester: i mean words in here like "i like to be the one kicking sand in the face at bbqs" i mean what a ****ing joke....
threads.

Whats wrong with that? In my post i said i would not change brands? I said im gonna wait until holden wakes up before i buy my next car. Do you wanna turn up to a bbq with your e3 hsv to have a ford guy in his boss 335 turn up and start sh****g all over you?

[JimmyXR6T04]

Whats wrong with that? In my post i said i would not change brands? I said im gonna wait until holden wakes up before i buy my next car. Do you wanna turn up to a bbq with your e3 hsv to have a ford guy in his boss 335 turn up and start sh****g all over you?

I'm not sure if you're serious or not??

Why would some one in a Boss 335 sh*t all over you? Why would it even matter if their car was faster? Some people on here sound like primary school children... "My dads car is faster then your dads car" ...

Do people on here really think that normal grown up adults care? Drive whatever makes you happy. Who cares if it's a little slower down the drag strip, or less powerful. It won't make anyone more or less of a man...

I wonder if grown up adults that drive toyota aurions worry about mazda 6 owners turning up to a bbq, or vice versa :confused:

Two things are for sure; The new Boss 335 motor looks to be the goods. I can't wait for FPV to step up the rest of their package (interior, gadgets etc) with FG2 or whatever else they bring out.

And; this thread has really highlighted the growns ups and the NOT so grown ups!

[gigantor]

FPV developed three levels of S/C 5.0 simultaneously. Two have been released. The other has an intercooler.

that sounds interesting

[payaya]

I'm not sure if you're serious or not??

Why would some one in a Boss 335 sh*t all over you? Why would it even matter if their car was faster? Some people on here sound like primary school children... "My dads car is faster then your dads car" ...

Do people on here really think that normal grown up adults care? Drive whatever makes you happy. Who cares if it's a little slower down the drag strip, or less powerful. It won't make anyone more or less of a man...

I wonder if grown up adults that drive toyota aurions worry about mazda 6 owners turning up to a bbq, or vice versa :confused:

Two things are for sure; The new Boss 335 motor looks to be the goods. I can't wait for FPV to step up the rest of their package (interior, gadgets etc) with FG2 or whatever else they bring out.

And; this thread has really highlighted the growns ups and the NOT so grown ups!

Why would you drive to a bbq? I usually get a lift and drink the piss.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Why would you drive to a bbq? I usually get a lift and drink the piss.

haha, yeah true that... Although my wife rarely has a drink, so i always drive to the location and hand the keys over as soon as i lock the car!

[payaya]

haha, yeah true that... Although my wife rarely has a drink, so i always drive to the location and hand the keys over as soon as i lock the car!

Yep! The perfect partner, had a few of those!!!

[Black Diamond]

No I am not saying ban all discussion on other badges. Just don't let it slide into a debate about reliablilty and breakages and the like. This thread is about the way the test driver thought the car drove and his impressions of it. It wasn't about whats is holden going to do next, what is going to break first, how much power is it going to make after it has been tuned. There are other threads for that.

Point being ask questions relating to the drive experience, car feel, performance and not the ford vs holden. :soap:

Well said JB.

You actually have a some brains under that Greyskull :moon:
cheers

[smokey777]

Whats wrong with that? In my post i said i would not change brands? I said im gonna wait until holden wakes up before i buy my next car. Do you wanna turn up to a bbq with your e3 hsv to have a ford guy in his boss 335 turn up and start sh****g all over you?

this post below explains it better than i could lol well said JimmyXR6T04


I'm not sure if you're serious or not??

Why would some one in a Boss 335 sh*t all over you? Why would it even matter if their car was faster? Some people on here sound like primary school children... "My dads car is faster then your dads car" ...

Do people on here really think that normal grown up adults care? Drive whatever makes you happy. Who cares if it's a little slower down the drag strip, or less powerful. It won't make anyone more or less of a man...

I wonder if grown up adults that drive toyota aurions worry about mazda 6 owners turning up to a bbq, or vice versa :confused:

Two things are for sure; The new Boss 335 motor looks to be the goods. I can't wait for FPV to step up the rest of their package (interior, gadgets etc) with FG2 or whatever else they bring out.

And; this thread has really highlighted the growns ups and the NOT so grown ups!

ya the sad bit is he is serious.........

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

OMG Thread closed pleassse

[macca_779]

I just drove a GT A6 5 min ago. I'll do a more detailed review later tonight but first impressions are mixed.
It certainly doesn't feel like a 330rwkw car so my thoughts on massive torque management in the low gears was correct. The way it cuts power for gear shifts is terrible too. FWIW I would buy a HSV if intent was to leave it stock. It's really not as impressive as I thought it would be. Although I am in Darwin so I wouldn't be surprised if it's being pulled back due to the heat up here as opposed to down south.
The blower is overpowering the exhaust too which I'm not a fan of.
Would I buy one? I'd have to drive a tuned one. But if I had to leave it stock. No chance.

[bouka]

I just drove a GT A6 5 min ago. I'll do a more detailed review later tonight but first impressions are mixed.
It certainly doesn't feel like a 330rwkw car so my thoughts on massive torque management in the low gears was correct. The way it cuts power for gear shifts is terrible too. FWIW I would buy a HSV if intent was to leave it stock. It's really not as impressive as I thought it would be. Although I am in Darwin so I wouldn't be surprised if it's being pulled back due to the heat up here as opposed to down south.
The blower is overpowering the exhaust too which I'm not a fan of.
Would I buy one? I'd have to drive a tuned one. But if I had to leave it stock. No chance.


Sounds interesting Macca and very similar to what I experienced. I look forward to your more detailed thoughts.

As for those posting absolute rubbish, find another thread or start your own. I am fed up with decent topics and or discussions being destroyed by idiots.

If you can't contribute to the topic/discussion then DONT POST.

[michaels1v8]

I just drove a GT A6 5 min ago. I'll do a more detailed review later tonight but first impressions are mixed.
It certainly doesn't feel like a 330rwkw car so my thoughts on massive torque management in the low gears was correct. The way it cuts power for gear shifts is terrible too. FWIW I would buy a HSV if intent was to leave it stock. It's really not as impressive as I thought it would be. Although I am in Darwin so I wouldn't be surprised if it's being pulled back due to the heat up here as opposed to down south.
The blower is overpowering the exhaust too which I'm not a fan of.
Would I buy one? I'd have to drive a tuned one. But if I had to leave it stock. No chance.

Heat soak will probably be the biggest power killer on these things.

Remember the Gen-PD and the different power readings people were reporting after sitting with the car idling for a few minutes. Fine once going but the heat soak was a power killer.

Look forward to reading your review :)

[EfiJy]

Heat soak will probably be the biggest power killer on these things.

Remember the Gen-PD and the different power readings people were reporting after sitting with the car idling for a few minutes. Fine once going but the heat soak was a power killer.

Look forward to reading your review :)

Which is why I was disappointed when I heard there was no intercooler. At least an intercooler would give more consistency, not just extra power.

Like the guy said in the KPM thread, he did a burnout at the strip and probably lost 20 rwkw. In the far north, the GT is never going to give off its best.

[4VMan]

Which is why I was disappointed when I heard there was no intercooler. At least an intercooler would give more consistency, not just extra power.

Like the guy said in the KPM thread, he did a burnout at the strip and probably lost 20 rwkw. In the far north, the GT is never going to give off its best.
I call BS, ive spent a fair time in one on a hot day and heat isnt an issue.

If anything the trans intervenes and keeps things under control unless you manual shift and turn DSC off.

The intercooler was left off for a few reasons, it simply wasnt needed, they had to cap power output and its going to be used by its BIG brother next year.....

[jsme]

I get heat soak issues in my car. Car feels about 20-30kw down when sitting in traffic and the temp gauge goes up. Get the car rolling and cooled down and it's amazingly different. The intakes on the VZ's were pathetic, looks like they just reused the air con vents. How does an engine breathe through that?

[bouka]

As I mentioned in my review, I think it is an amazing engine that is chocked by electronics to keep an average driveline alive.

It is the electronic intervention (torque management etc) that make it feel strangish (for want of better description) to drive and probably why the mph doesn't seem to match the rwkw figures.

It will be stunning (already bloody awsome in 3rd gear and above) behind a driveline able to cope with its potential.

[bouka]

I call BS, ive spent a fair time in one on a hot day and heat isnt an issue.

If anything the trans intervenes and keeps things under control unless you manual shift and turn DSC off.

The intercooler was left off for a few reasons, it simply wasnt needed, they had to cap power output and its going to be used by its BIG brother next year.....

they will have to do something special with the rear end to keep big brother together. If he makes it to the market.

[macca_779]

Ok Review time. Out of the blue today while I had a bit of time to kill before picking the misses up from the Airport I went across to the Darwin FPV Dealer to suss out this new engine. I was already familiar with the old GT and nothing noticeable has changed bar the engine.

Packaging.
Well done here FPV. They have used the valley void very well by installing the blower upside down. It sure is a damm good looking motor.

Presence.
Started it and let it idle for a while with the bonnet up. Very quiet out the back but extremely quiet up the front. The loudest thing you can hear is the injectors firing.
Revving it in Neutral is also quite subdued. You can sure get the blower to whine easily but without the Bi-Models opening up it was pretty uneventful.

The Drive.
Now from the onset I had high expectations for this car. My mindset was in a place where I was thinking this is a Blown high tech V8, its going to be very punchy. I've sampled enough Blown LSx's to know what something like this should go like.. Well my expectations weren't met.
As I rolled out of the dealership I applied ~40% throttle. The GT kicked down and motored off fairly briskly. The way the ZF A6 knows the right gear to be in every time is refreshing compared to the VE's and that has continued even with this new engine. I actively tried to confuse it by applying random throttle applications but it was absolutely fine with it.

WOT.. It's not a slow car by any stretch, but its not putting down 330rwkw off the line either I assure. Feels like a mid 13 second car. But it is clear its the torque management to blame here as the faster you go it does feel like its giving out more power. FPV reckons they have payed alot of attention to the exhaust note. Well from the inside you wouldn't know it. The blower whine is very distinguished and completely overpowers the exhaust, in fact its deceiving because all this whine in my mindset dealing with LSx with the same blower normally translates to a lot more boogy, alas not so much but that's just me and not a fault of the car. Ok so first real problem. Flat out in 1st to 6000rpm I await the lunge of hitting 2nd, it doesn't happen. O there is that damm torque management again. Instead of quickly shifting into 2nd and continuing away into the horizon it just stops for an instant. Its not long, but its very noticable, much like hitting a soft rev limiter and it needs to be fixed as its terrible.

Off the line.
With DSC off and stomping the throttle my expectations are shattered. FPV has taken way to much away. With this combo I should be able to turn the thing into a smoke machine on demand with this much torque. The fact is it doesn't even feel like 400nm is being applied off the mark. People have been knocking the fact the tyres aren't wide enough for it. With engine management set this far retarded it simply doesn't need any more rubber. The way it does its business is like this. Go WOT, Nose Lifts, Starts Moving, Small Bit of Wheelspin for ~3/4sec, Grip, Go, WTF where is my smoke show.
The same torque limitations are felt when on the move to. I found a nice left hand curve that I was taking at about 50km/h with ~40deg of left wheel applied (DSC is off remember). Now most guys could guess what would happen if you go WOT with these paramaters. So I go WOT, the car surges forward and I await the imminent unloading of the rack and requirement for me to apply a bucket full of OL.. Its doesn't happen, it just grips, again WTF.

In Summary.
FPV has done a brilliant job engineering this new engine. It will no doubt serve them well for years to come and talking to the dealer about sales, they are selling a shit load of them.
But it feels like a stock VT LS1 did in the day. Very flat and clearly very restrained from performing. It may have been the Darwin heat @~36 today, but I doubt it and I still feel it should be quicker, but more importantly more entertaining as its just way to safe the way it is. Most cammed LS1 guys wont have a problem disposing of a stock one. But it will be interesting to see how they go tuned with all the baby sitter BS removed or at least reduced. If someone was to buy one and leave it stock I feel that they would be missing out on alot of what their car should do. Unfortunately most people wont tune them and that is no doubt good for HSV. To drive this and a LS3 back to back I feel the LS3 is the more entertaining performer in the way it delivers its power. The blower itself will sell a lot of cars. I mean its a factory Supercharged V8 so so it should. But unfortunately it just doesn't drive like one should. Would I buy one over a HSV.. Yes. I've always liked the FG over the VE in most regards except the engine, they have now fixed that so yes I feel it is the better package. The only caveat I have is I couldn't live with it stock and I eagerly await the chance to drive one that is allowed the freedom to use the power its capable of.

[steve_t]

Off the line.
With DSC off and stomping the throttle my expectations are shattered. FPV has taken way to much away. With this combo I should be able to turn the thing into a smoke machine on demand with this much torque. The fact is it doesn't even feel like 400nm is being applied off the mark. People have been knocking the fact the tyres aren't wide enough for it. With engine management set this far retarded it simply doesn't need any more rubber. The way it does its business is like this. Go WOT, Nose Lifts, Starts Moving, Small Bit of Wheelspin for ~3/4sec, Grip, Go, WTF where is my smoke show.
The same torque limitations are felt when on the move to. I found a nice left hand curve that I was taking at about 50km/h with ~40deg of left wheel applied (DSC is off remember). Now most guys could guess what would happen if you go WOT with these paramaters. So I go WOT, the car surges forward and I await the imminent unloading of the rack and requirement for me to apply a bucket full of OL.. Its doesn't happen, it just grips, again WTF.


Is the TC (TCS) separate from the DSC?

[nikola]

Good review Macca but, I'm curious, didn't your Holden have the same restrictions when stock standard too? Because everything you just wrote about the Ford engine, is exactly the same as my VE SS Ute when it was stock. You couldn't even get the wheels to chirp (let alone spin) in first gear because it was so held back by the computer.

[Evman]

Great to read another review Macca. With a lot of people suggesting that a crazy high percentage of people leave their cars dead stock, it would be interesting to see which way a true Joe Bloggs went with his decision between an HSV and FPV. If it feels as restricted in a test drive as you suggest then there would be marginal seat-of-the-pants performance difference between a stock HSV and FPV, especially around the local streets of a dealership. Perhaps HSV's gadgets would be a high selling point after all.

[EfiJy]

Nice review but surprising to read as it sounds unexpectedly underwhelming. :bawl:

The bit that everyone keeps harping on about, the torque tags, well if you remove them you not only void your warranty you could also possibly wreck your driveline. In 3rd gear the car's a weapon. In 1st and 2nd gears, the car kills its driveline. It's almost like FPV are teasing you with this car. Bugger the excitement of 3rd gear, it's license losing speed. I'd like to experience the power from 1st gear.

It sounds like the F6 is a far more complete and involving car than the GT.

[macca_779]

F6 is a different kind of entertaining. Really tuff call to make deciding between the two.

[macca_779]

Good review Macca but, I'm curious, didn't your Holden have the same restrictions when stock standard too? Because everything you just wrote about the Ford engine, is exactly the same as my VE SS Ute when it was stock. You couldn't even get the wheels to chirp (let alone spin) in first gear because it was so held back by the computer.

Yep Holdens are restrained too but it's not as noticeable as in this thing as with the holdens they are just restrained all over. With this thing once you get a bit of speed on board it starts to haul arse. But your left wondering where all that urge was from the get go.

[Martin_D]

WOT.. It's not a slow car by any stretch, but its not putting down 330rwkw off the line either I assure.

Of course its bloody not.
Its 335kw at the crankshaft.....
Unless of course its a new flux capacitor powered zero loss driveline.

Using the old Moroso calculator -
4000lb car, 112mph, gives a power output of - 450hp at the crank
Strangely enough thats 335kw...at the crank
335kw cars - like say an AMG C63 - all dyno up around 280rwkw
So...thats what its got. No more, no less :)

EDIT: From a guy in Adelaide just yesterday -
"Well last night we put my uncles "virginal" GT335 on to a mainline dyno.....
Stock as rock with just over 2000kms on the odo, it pulled a best of 288rwkws and boost peaked at 5.67psi...."

[jsme]

What was up with the media car being dyno'd at something like 330kw at the wheels then?

[EfiJy]

Of course its bloody not.
Its 335kw at the crankshaft.....
Unless of course its a new flux capacitor powered zero loss driveline.

Using the old Moroso calculator -
4000lb car, 112mph, gives a power output of - 450hp at the crank
Strangely enough thats 335kw...at the crank
335kw cars - like say an AMG C63 - all dyno up around 280rwkw
So...thats what its got. No more, no less :)

EDIT: From a guy in Adelaide just yesterday -
"Well last night we put my uncles "virginal" GT335 on to a mainline dyno.....
Stock as rock with just over 2000kms on the odo, it pulled a best of 288rwkws and boost peaked at 5.67psi...."

Am I missing something here, what difference does the brand of dyno make to a car's power output? :confused:

If the dynos of yesterday, the same dynos which you probably used, measure 335 rwkw, then I don't know how that also happens to translate to 335 fwkw? :confused:

Please explain. :confused:

[Martin_D]

Am I missing something here, what difference does the brand of dyno make to a car's power output? :confused:

Zero

Its like having 10 different tape measures with different spacing between the marks....some read bigger numbers than others! :)

The car still makes the same power.

[EfiJy]

Zero

Its like having 10 different tape measures with different spacing between the marks....some read bigger numbers than others! :)

The car still makes the same power.

So how could you possibly say that a conservative dyno reads more accurately and equates to the manufacturer's claimed output?

Are you not also saying the older dynos don't measure accurately anymore even if they were always measuring the output the same way?

I still have trouble with your basic comment that a 335rwkw reading on a dyno dynamics dyno also translates to a 'real' 335 fwkw as per the manufacture's claim? It used to equate to 400 fwkw in the past so what's changed? :smilesandbanana:

[Uwish]

Martin, sorry... But I am sick of you stating that your mainline is teh truest reading dyno.
I ( with my wrx ) dyno'd my wrx on both mainline ( brandnew ) and Autotechs DD and the mainline read higher.
Please stop shitting on. Its getting old.

[Martin_D]

Look Efijy this dyno talk is getting confusing and convoluted.

If these cars were making a REAL 335rwkw, they would be trapping 120mph+ at the track. They trap 112mph. The big black dyno NEVER lies :)

Nuff said :cool:

[EfiJy]

Look Efijy this dyno talk is getting confusing and convoluted.

If these cars were making a REAL 335rwkw, they would be trapping 120mph+ at the track. They trap 112mph. The big black dyno NEVER lies :)

Nuff said :cool:


Yes but it's limited by the torque tags in first and second gears, isn't it? So, of course it will impact on mph or am I totally off beam? :confused:

[Martin_D]

No such thing as 'Torque Tags' that was a xr6turbo forum term from 2002 :)
There is no gear based torque limiting that I can see in the software, and torque management doesnt look to be that aggressive for straight line 400m style stuff :)
Just normal spark shift modulation and other little goodies that Macca noticed
Remember its a 5 litre engine with just over 5 pounds of boost, its not going to rip your head off....

[EfiJy]

No such thing as 'Torque Tags' that was a xr6turbo forum term from 2002 :)
There is no gear based torque limiting that I can see in the software, and torque management doesnt look to be that aggressive for straight line 400m style stuff :)
Just normal spark shift modulation and other little goodies that Macca noticed
Remember its a 5 litre engine with just over 5 pounds of boost, its not going to rip your head off....

hmmmm The plot thickens. :confused:

CHE and others have dyno readings of 350 rwkw for the GT. It's the first time I've heard of a dyno reading more (rwkw) than the claimed factory output (fwkw). :deal:

So the impression of macca and others that 1st, 2nd gear outputs is limited is inaccurate? :confused:

The plot thickens indeed. :popcorn:

[10sec_rx7]

CHE and others have dyno readings of 350 rwkw for the GT.
The plot thickens indeed. :popcorn:

no we never had readings of 350rwkw for the GT.. 328rwkw was the reading which funny enough is almost identical to XFT's readings in WA..

seems the only one spotuing readings of under 300rwkw is the same one that claims close to 300rwkw for bolt on VE's and 30rwkw gain from E85 on a stock VE lol :rofl:

[EfiJy]

no we never had readings of 350rwkw for the GT.. 328rwkw was the reading which funny enough is almost identical to XFT's readings in SA..

seems the only one spotuing readings of under 300rwkw is the same one that claims close to 300rwkw for bolt on VE's and 30rwkw gain from E85 on a stock VE lol :rofl:

Sorry, I think 350 rwkw was quoted in your sponsors thread about another workshop.

I stand corrected. :)