Supercharged FPV GS 5.0 litre Launched - Part 3

[Evman]

Martin any updates on your tuning experiences with the engine? This thread could do with an injection of something useful.

[4VMan]

XFT just got 361 RWKW from their GS, tune only.

[michaels1v8]

Who cares what is from where. As long as it does the job it's suppose to do then its no problem. . And if outsourcing to another country is the only way our local ford and holdens can remain competitive then i'm all for it. . I'd rather a foreign made commodore than none at all

[FOON]

Who cares what is from where. As long as it does the job it's suppose to do then its no problem. . And if outsourcing to another country is the only way our local ford and holdens can remain competitive then i'm all for it. . I'd rather a foreign made commodore than none at all

Too right, look at we would have if we didn't have the commodore or falcon, we'd all be cardigan wearing camry drivers :smilesandbanana:

[Carby]

Who gives a shit where the components are from? The simple fact is, the Miami is an Australian engine. My L98 is assembled in Mexico, does that mean it's not an American engine?

Well I for one. We're currently rebuilding my brothers motor and one for certain is that no Chinese parts will be sourced, only OZ or US/UK. On important things like this and food I won't buy any Chinese made items. Things like clothes and electricals you don't really have a choice on.

Chinese opistons in an Aussie 5 litre just doesn't sound right...........

However your sttitude does explain the proliferation of cheap imported items into Australia, basically you (and abviously many others) don't give a stuff just so long as it is C..H..E..A..P........ :spew:

[Carby]

Many BMW parts come from India. They were one of the first manufacturers to get into the cost savings there.

If an overseas company like BMW, GM or whoever set up a factory in India and ENFORCE the same QA and QC standards as their home plants than these plants will be OK. But if you let the Indians go off and do their own thing (same with the Chinese pattern parts industry) you don't know what you are going to get.

[SM1DY]

Chinese opistons in an Aussie 5 litre just doesn't sound right...........


You do realize that no evidence has been posted to otherwise refute the fact that the S/C 5.0L is anything but made from US and OZ parts. Were still waiting for Efijy to come back with the source of where he got this information.

I think the problem is that they are suspected to be made in India not China, that's were GM source there parts from.

[FireArc]

The coyotes use a chinese made manual trans, so these rumours could be quite plausible.

Well would you look at that, a troll feeding a troll. Is that a form of cannibalism? Or do you share teats?

What were we talking about again? Oh yeh, nothing like a good Vindaloo Curry to clear you out. Especially those that are full of the proverbial...

Welcome to the world of Globalism my friends. Economies of scale wins out in the end.

[FireArc]

Well I for one. We're currently rebuilding my brothers motor and one for certain is that no Chinese parts will be sourced, only OZ or US/UK. On important things like this and food I won't buy any Chinese made items. Things like clothes and electricals you don't really have a choice on.

Chinese opistons in an Aussie 5 litre just doesn't sound right...........

However your sttitude does explain the proliferation of cheap imported items into Australia, basically you (and abviously many others) don't give a stuff just so long as it is C..H..E..A..P........ :spew:

Its closer than you think, and getting closer by the day...


Export quality almost within reach of Chinese car factories, survey shows

22 June 2010

By JOHN MELLOR

CHINESE car quality has improved dramatically in the past 10 years, according to data released to GoAuto by the world’s leading vehicle quality authority, J.D. Power and Associates.

Annual surveys of Chinese car owners show that Chinese car factories are fast catching on to the quality levels required to start exporting cars to western car markets in earnest.

The data shows two levels of quality – the cars made by domestic Chinese car-makers such as Chery, BYD and Great Wall and cars made in China by Japanese, European, Korean and US car companies in partnership with Chinese car-makers.

In terms of faults per 100 cars, Chinese domestic car-makers still lag well behind the quality of cars made by the foreign car makers – a clear indicator that the overseas car makers are bringing with them valuable vehicle production knowledge and transfer of technology.

But the gap between the domestic brands and the foreign brands is narrowing. Nor are the domestics chasing a stationary target with the data showing that the foreign car-makers are also squeezing increased quality out of their car factories as well.

In 2000, the Chinese domestic brands were throwing up 834 quality faults per 100 cars – a horrendous figure that would scare off the bravest of candidates seeking to export Chinese cars into Western car markets.

The foreign brands, at 438 faults per 100 cars, had half as many faults but still enough impediments to drive off any serious thoughts of sending these Chinese-made cars to the west.

At that time the gap between the domestic and foreign brands was a massive 396 faults per 100 cars which suggested that it would be a long time before the Chinese domestic brands would be any serious threat in Western markets.

But, in just two years, the Chinese domestic brands had more than halved their faults to 399 per 100 cars and had caught up to where the foreign brands had been just two years before. The foreign brands, meanwhile had improved to 246 faults per 100 cars.

So, in those two years to 2002, the gap between the Chinese domestics and the foreign brands had been closed from 396 faults per 100 cars to 153 faults per 100 cars.

From then on it became harder to make gains in the intervening years but, in the latest 2009 survey, the domestic Chinese car-makers were at 258 faults per 100 cars and the foreign brand car makers were at 142 faults for 100 cars. The gap between the two was 116 faults per 100 cars.

By comparing this data with J.D. Power surveys of US car buyers who bought US brands made in American car factories, the faults of the Chinese domestic brands in 2009 were still way off the scale. But the faults reported in the foreign brands made in China are roughly the equivalent to the faults reported by American car buyers in their domestic cars in 2002. This suggests that in 2009 the foreign brands made in China are about eight years behind the quality standards of the US car-makers in America.

But improvements since then show the gap by 2009 between the foreign cars made in China and US cars made in the US was just 30 faults per 100 cars or less than one fault per car difference.

This suggests that on quality at least, cars of foreign brands in China could just about be ready to hold their own in the US market, which would leave them not far behind for markets such as Australia.


In another key indicator that the Chinese car-makers are on a roll on car quality, J.D. Power reported that the number of Chinese car owners “experiencing problems with their vehicle since owning it” has dropped from almost 60 per cent in 2004 to 28 per cent in 2009.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/9B55868DA3D45104CA25774A0012DACF/$file/Chinese_Car_Quality_Large.jpg?OpenElement


Source: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/9B55868DA3D45104CA25774A0012DACF

[4VMan]

Well i import components from China and i can safely say just because a component is manufactured in a foreign country like China doesn't automatically mean its crap..
In fact the Chinese can, in many circumstances provide parts every bit as good in quality if not better than anything we can produce here or the US.
Many manufacturers over there now have state of the art manufacturing facilities, equipment and processes... Its not like the old days i can assure you.

[FireArc]

The coyotes use a chinese made manual trans, so these rumours could be quite plausible.

And another thing (good old Simpsons...), last time i checked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Applications), Ford/GM/FPV/HSV/Holden all use the same 6spd manual TR6060.

[dawkinsdisciple]

Too right, look at we would have if we didn't have the commodore or falcon, we'd all be cardigan wearing camry drivers :smilesandbanana:

i wouldn't mind an R34 GT-T or JXZ100 any day thanks. its only thanks to a love of V8's, RWD and some local pride that i have the SSV in the drive. don't get me wrong, i love the thing and my last 4 cars were commodores but i'd survive without it...

enough with the tune only figures thrown in too, we get it, its good. chuck up a dyno chart or video, something a bit more entertaining then another set of figures, it just comes across as smug when we altread

effijy, come on guy... our VE's might be designed and assembled here but i don't kid myself. i think it is the lowest local content car manufactured here so nothing to crow extensively about there and truth be told, i wouldn't be able to tell a chinese bit of plastic from australian and aus isn't exactly renowned for its manufacturing abilities anyway so, yeh... further, every commodore i've had or been in develops its creaks and the interior plastics haven't been the best traditionally so who gives a rats? i know your thing was with the motor but sounds like nitpicking...

obviously ford have had local input with this motor. it goes, and well. we had SOMEthing to do with the development and something significant at that. let it go mate, as someone a bit more impartial, your posts just seem to reek of a necessity for vindication of the holden product at fords. its not us and them, believe it or not, i'd like to think its Aus v them. give them their credit due and leave it. the ongoing jibes are only making you look like a querrolous naive nut. have your reservations about the product but don't persist with pages and pages of this. it doesn't accomplish anything.

[dawkinsdisciple]

double post

[EfiJy]

Tch tch, so much hate on this forum. Why are some people so quick to shout someone down? It's a desperate sign.

http://www.indiapistons.com/swfs/mahle.html

Why are people so unkind?

So are we getting the big picture or are we led to believe something different?

HSE2, I don''t understand why you just can't ask the FPV engineers for a straight up answer? Ask them which components are made outside of the US/AUS and specifically where are they made.

Don't kill the messenger boys. It's not hard to find answers. google

[EfiJy]

i wouldn't mind an R34 GT-T or JXZ100 any day thanks. its only thanks to a love of V8's, RWD and some local pride that i have the SSV in the drive. don't get me wrong, i love the thing and my last 4 cars were commodores but i'd survive without it...

enough with the tune only figures thrown in too, we get it, its good. chuck up a dyno chart or video, something a bit more entertaining then another set of figures, it just comes across as smug when we altread

effijy, come on guy... our VE's might be designed and assembled here but i don't kid myself. i think it is the lowest local content car manufactured here so nothing to crow extensively about there and truth be told, i wouldn't be able to tell a chinese bit of plastic from australian and aus isn't exactly renowned for its manufacturing abilities anyway so, yeh... further, every commodore i've had or been in develops its creaks and the interior plastics haven't been the best traditionally so who gives a rats? i know your thing was with the motor but sounds like nitpicking...

obviously ford have had local input with this motor. it goes, and well. we had SOMEthing to do with the development and something significant at that. let it go mate, as someone a bit more impartial, your posts just seem to reek of a necessity for vindication of the holden product at fords. its not us and them, believe it or not, i'd like to think its Aus v them. give them their credit due and leave it. the ongoing jibes are only making you look like a querrolous naive nut. have your reservations about the product but don't persist with pages and pages of this. it doesn't accomplish anything.

All I can say to that is that my next car will be a Japper. At least I know the Suba or EVO will have genuine Japanese parts.

[Ghia351]

All I can say to that is that my next car will be a Japper. At least I know the Suba or EVO will have genuine Japanese parts.I normally stay out of these byplays however you do remind me of the Monty Python "Black Knight" character...arms gone, leg gone and still thinking they can defend the bridge...:jester: by the way do you think that the Japanese produce all their components internally as well? A Subi or Mitsu JV in China would still be stamped with Subi or Mitsu however they probably used Australian iron ore, world's best practise iron production......if you want to discredit the new SC V8 I think looking at the source of components isn't the best method.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

All I can say to that is that my next car will be a Japper. At least I know the Suba or EVO will have genuine Japanese parts.

You'd better hurry...... reports are Subaru are going to start manufacturing in China soon.

[macca_779]

XFT is still just putting in a little bit here and there on his GS Ute. Bit more RPM now and 10psi peak, but obviously still plenty left and running the stock pipes is no doubt not helping.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/197530136.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1290571961&Signature=OO4WSA8y2EkiLHZJnvqcsJCOkVU%3D

[oranpark_addict]

XFT is still just putting in a little bit here and there on his GS Ute. Bit more RPM now and 10psi peak, but obviously still plenty left and running the stock pipes is no doubt not helping.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/197530136.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1290571961&Signature=OO4WSA8y2EkiLHZJnvqcsJCOkVU%3D

Time to have a little peep at that thread:)

[Evman]

By looking at the end of the boost curve there it appears the pressure could be building up in the exhaust. Still 40rwkw shy of the rumoured 400rwkw tune only from Herrod.

[JimmyXR6T04]

By looking at the end of the boost curve there it appears the pressure could be building up in the exhaust. Still 40rwkw shy of the rumoured 400rwkw tune only from Herrod.

From my understanding and reading on the fordforums, it appears as though the ute and sedans have different exhausts. I'm not sure in which way etc. But Simons GS is a ute, so that might be why the power is low. According to Simon, he hasn't spent too much time on it yet. Time will tell.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

The 400rwkw mark is unfounded anyway right now. It would be nice to reach that and a great achievement. But I don't think that anyone will be disappointed even if it ends at 361rwkw stock with just a tune!

[dawkinsdisciple]

I normally stay out of these byplays however you do remind me of the Monty Python "Black Knight" character...arms gone, leg gone and still thinking they can defend the bridge...:jester: by the way do you think that the Japanese produce all their components internally as well? A Subi or Mitsu JV in China would still be stamped with Subi or Mitsu however they probably used Australian iron ore, world's best practise iron production......if you want to discredit the new SC V8 I think looking at the source of components isn't the best method.

the last points a good one and indicitive of the nature and inevitability of global markets - as one of the worlds largest exporters of iron ore, at least theres probably a bit of Australia in a lot of metal products! plus, the concept of competitive advantage means that production tends to go where labours cheapest and as the article by mellor shows, quality improves or they go out of business. so sorry mate, to think subaru/mitsu etc will retain exclusiveley jap componenets is as naive as thinking BMW or merc would. they won't. its not economically feasible in most cases.

[Evman]

The 400rwkw remark isn't unfounded at all. No one has been able to reach that and confirm it. 360rwkw is absolutely phenomenal, but it's not the 400rwkw that some were prematurely suggesting. That's why it's best to wait for the confirmed figures to come out rather than jump on every rumour that makes its way across the internet.

[dawkinsdisciple]

The 400rwkw mark is unfounded anyway right now. It would be nice to reach that and a great achievement. But I don't think that anyone will be disappointed even if it ends at 361rwkw stock with just a tune!

sheet, 360 rwkw out of a stock motors just awesome really let alone the higher numbers getting abour. that'd be enough to satisfy most people and not much less then i'll be expecting out of a ground up twin turbo build on my L98.

credit where its due here. i really can't wait to get into one for a spin.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

The 400rwkw remark isn't unfounded at all. No one has been able to reach that and confirm it. 360rwkw is absolutely phenomenal, but it's not the 400rwkw that some were prematurely suggesting. That's why it's best to wait for the confirmed figures to come out rather than jump on every rumour that makes its way across the internet.

I was referring to a 400rwkw dyno run, not a remark. An actual dyno run with 400 is unfounded. A 400 remark has been made for sure.

[Evman]

Fair call mate, my misunderstanding :)

[steve_t]

Sorry to detract from topic again, but what does the Corvette with LS9 put out at the wheels? 476fwkw should roughly equal ?? rwkw?

[Evman]

Sorry to detract from topic again, but what does the Corvette with LS9 put out at the wheels? 476fwkw should roughly equal ?? rwkw?

371rwkw with a 22% drivetrain loss.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Looks like XFT is quite possibly going to get that tuned GS with 361rwkw out to the drags tonight. Will be interesting to see the figures.

[HSE2]

Not required now

[captain awesome]

i cant belive this thread has not been closed.
it just gets worse and more off topic as it goes.

but its good to see ls1 has replaced there hulk ba with a worthy person in EfiJy.

cant wait till he branches out to aff. wait what am i talking about to many asian and indian cars over there.

i wonder if he has thought about what else in his life is made in a asian and india.

but what would forums be without these pests

[EfiJy]

I normally stay out of these byplays however you do remind me of the Monty Python "Black Knight" character...arms gone, leg gone and still thinking they can defend the bridge...:jester: by the way do you think that the Japanese produce all their components internally as well? A Subi or Mitsu JV in China would still be stamped with Subi or Mitsu however they probably used Australian iron ore, world's best practise iron production......if you want to discredit the new SC V8 I think looking at the source of components isn't the best method.

LOL :jester:

Actually you do make perfect sense. :)

I'll admit to being wrong on this. Sorry to all the peeps who were offended, that wasn't my aim.

Even if the pistons are made by Mahle in India, it's irrelevant because I think a lot of US components might not be made there even if they are "labeled" that way.

Please just ignore me and keep discussing this great engine. I'll bow out of this thread now. :bawl:

[macca_779]

Looks like XFT is quite possibly going to get that tuned GS with 361rwkw out to the drags tonight. Will be interesting to see the figures.

Is he going to throw any tyres at it. Either way the MPH should be interesting. But I think he is hardly anywhere near finished on this thing before he even starts doing any mechanical work. 361kw can't be the end of it just yet.

[HSE2]

I also should have said if I were to ask the way you have put the question I could lie and fabricate an answer but the truth is no engineer is going to know that information.

I had a question from FF regarding clutch splines. Off the top of his head he didn't know and offered to check for me. He knew the specifics in as much as Prodrive hadn’t altered it but the issue in question required research. That’s how it works.

[HSE2]

LOL :jester:

Actually you do make perfect sense. :)

I'll admit to being wrong on this. Sorry to all the peeps who were offended, that wasn't my aim.

Even if the pistons are made by Mahle in India, it's irrelevant because I think a lot of US components might not be made there even if they are "labeled" that way.

Please just ignore me and keep discussing this great engine. I'll bow out of this thread now. :bawl:


Ok fair enough. People don’t get offended over cars. If you ever do want to check something I can help.

[Carby]

Its closer than you think, and getting closer by the day...



Source: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/9B55868DA3D45104CA25774A0012DACF

Not surprising the established overseas car makers have less faults than the Chinese domestic brands. The Chinese will make good use of this technology transfer.

If they continue to improve at that rate I wonder how long before GM and Ford decide to have our current homegrown made cars made in China:bawl:

[Ghia351]

LOL :jester:

Actually you do make perfect sense. :)

I'll admit to being wrong on this. Sorry to all the peeps who were offended, that wasn't my aim.

Even if the pistons are made by Mahle in India, it's irrelevant because I think a lot of US components might not be made there even if they are "labeled" that way.

Please just ignore me and keep discussing this great engine. I'll bow out of this thread now. :bawl:Can't say I always do, lol...actually sometimes we mistake cheap labour when in truth its massive production volumes allowing lower sale price per unit, case in point is a glass factory in China a mate visited which has more output then all of Australia's factories combined.... I guess we should all worry when they build a GTS or GT.

[FireArc]

Either way you look at it, an ~80rwkw gain (so far) from a tune only GS is just ridiculous. When you consider an FG F6 barely gets low 300rwkw tune only...

Insane, cheap power.

[flappist]

All I can say to that is that my next car will be a Japper. At least I know the Suba or EVO will have genuine Japanese parts.

If that comes with a promise to leave the forum I reckon there would be more than a few members prepared to chuck in a couple of bucks to help you buy it as soon as possible.....

[dawkinsdisciple]

If that comes with a promise to leave the forum I reckon there would be more than a few members prepared to chuck in a couple of bucks to help you buy it as soon as possible.....

he did apologise at least... btw if anyone in cairns gets one, please let me know...

[Plenty]

Guys just reading Wheels mag, they had some people write in and call them hackers, basically for the slow times they kept recording in the new GT.

So they strapped a V-Box to the car and ran it down Sydneys Dragway,

On the V-Box they recorded a 13.3sec 0-400m @ 182.0km/h
On the dragways timer 12.92sec 0-400m @ 181km/h

Obviously alot here will realise that, that's due to the dual timing beacons at the start, Still more variation than i thought there would be.

Just thought i would throw that up here. :)

[steve_t]

Guys just reading Wheels mag, they had some people write in and call them hackers, basically for the slow times they kept recording in the new GT.

So they strapped a V-Box to the car and ran it down Sydneys Dragway,

On the V-Box they recorded a 13.3sec 0-400m @ 182.0km/h
On the dragways timer 12.92sec 0-400m @ 181km/h

Obviously alot here will realise that, that's due to the dual timing beacons at the start, Still more variation than i thought there would be.

Just thought i would throw that up here. :)

Wow! That much difference between the measuring methods?!!

[4VMan]

Apparently a tune only GS just ran an 11.72 at 139mph!!!
1.8 60foot

Motorplex in WA.

[JETURBO]

Apparently a tune only GS just ran an 11.72 at 139mph!!!
1.8 60foot

Motorplex in WA.

horn horn horn:bow:

[Plenty]

Apparently a tune only GS just ran an 11.72 at 139mph!!!
1.8 60foot

Motorplex in WA.

Street trim yo think?

[sportwagon]

139 mph dont think so,139 should run low 10s.

[4VMan]

Completely stock including dunlops except for tune, everyone is scratching their heads over the mph however Simon saw over 210kph on the speedo.

Unbelievable result!

P.s the car has been asked to leave the strip for obvious reasons! Lol

[sportwagon]

Now that you said it was simon from im guessing EFT that explains alot.

[oranpark_addict]

Holy F'ing Horse Shit!?!?!?!??!?! Is it possiblee?:):):):)(that mph)

[YMK]

Holy F'ing Horse Shit!?!?!?!??!?! Is it possiblee?:):):):)(that mph)

Simon's posted the below...
Ok, I just want to clear a couple of things up, Time slip is here

http://twitpic.com/39q0vh

Ok, I think the car next to me got my MHP and i got his. I looked at my speedo as i went over the line in 4th gear and it was reading over 210 but not 220, in between the 2.

Its a shame that a silly error like that would accure as they wouldnt let me run it again and really it has tarnished the effort i went to to get the car down tonight with my current work load. IMO it ran around 131 mph.

It saying that Im wrapped with the way the car went on its SINGLE pass to run an 11 straight of the bat and I have to give a big thanks to Herrod and SCT for making sure we had the software ready to rock for when these cars came into production.

Ford have finally given us a car that isnt a 6 cylinder that is simply put AMAZING. It good to have a V8 that can now take on the red rivals.

just remmeber this is only the begining!

I am HANGING out to have some one on one time with my new Blue baby and give it some more XFT loving!

[185iboy]

Brilliant time, MPH is obviously. He raced on ET Streets so I don't think theres more than maybe an 11.5 in it judging by 60ft. Plenty of go for a tune only ute :goodjob:

Exciting times ahead. I wonder how much the ZF's are gonna like the Miami engines.

[Moderators]

This thread is now closed it has a continuation thread 143214