Supercharged FPV GS 5.0 litre Launched - Part 3

[Moderators]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 142558

[Moderators]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 142061

[EfiJy]

Yet despite all that it still outlaps and out performs the GTS... Some feat hey....

Over one lap, sure it does. But how does it hang in there over 5-10 laps?

Let's not forget the difference was only 0.5s over the one flying lap.

And the 100kg keg the HSV was carrying might have actually hindered it's progress?

But let's just ignore the finer details as it doesn't quite suit your argumentative style. Would you have brought up these details if the shoe were on the other foot?

Naaaa, not likely I reckon!

[duke5700]

For all these high power levels I don't see them doing 120+mph...

Dyno racing is like saying that you have driven at Bathurst when you own a copy of Gran Turismo..

[ratter]

And the 100kg keg the HSV was carrying might have actually hindered it's progress?




If it is part of the package it is something it will have to live with.

[EfiJy]

If it is part of the package it is something it will have to live with.

Naaa that was just the LPi model tested. :)

Personally, I'd be disappointed if a blown FPV V8 was no quicker than a run of the mill GTS. But that's just me.

[4VMan]

Naaa that was just the LPi model tested. :)

Personally, I'd be disappointed if a blown FPV V8 was no quicker than a run of the mill GTS. But that's just me.

You've got nothing to be dissapointed about them.. :-)

[HSV 408]

Dyno queen . 1/4 mile time is shit to say the least.:lmao:
It still a shit looking pos Ford :spew:

[EfiJy]

You've got nothing to be dissapointed about them.. :-)

Well if you like to compare non-ideal combatants against one another, I'm so glad you are happy to compare apples and oranges.

Good for you.

Drop 100kg from the boot of the GTS and how much quicker will it lap, do ya reckon? I think there's barely a bee's dick in the time.

Unless you are only interested in what happens from 140km/h and up but then who is allowed to do that on any road? Drag strips are not for everyone.

[HSE2]

Dyno queen . 1/4 mile time is shit to say the least.:lmao:
It still a shit looking pos Ford :spew:
Ok I will bite.

If on the same day at the same time the FPV is faster over the quarter with as you say a shit time, what does that make the HSV product?

Drag queen perhaps?

[4VMan]

Well if you like to compare non-ideal combatants against one another, I'm so glad you are happy to compare apples and oranges.

Good for you.

Drop 100kg from the boot of the GTS and how much quicker will it lap, do ya reckon? I think there's barely a bee's dick in the time.

Unless you are only interested in what happens from 140km/h and up but then who is allowed to do that on any road? Drag strips are not for everyone.
Non ideal combatants?
How much more expensive is the GTS over the GT? Wasnt the R8 included too??
The GTS's real suiter its the GT-P, yet the mags seem no feel its not needed, the GT-P has much better brakes and is positioned against the GTS price wise, i wonder how much faster a GT-P would have lapped Winton again.....
Anyway who's talking drag strips? Last time i checked most roads have corners, Some scribes feel the rear end ballast made the GTS more settled and faster..

[HSV 408]

Ok I will bite.

If on the same day at the same time the FPV is faster over the quarter with as you say a shit time, what does that make the HSV product?

Drag queen perhaps?

If my car was blown and didnt pull off at the very least a high 11 sec time i would be pissed.
I only had put a camshaft in my clubby to run 11.7.

[4VMan]

If my car was blown and didnt pull off at the very least a high 11 sec time i would be pissed.
I only had put a camshaft in my clubby to run 11.7.
What did it run stock??

[EfiJy]

Non ideal combatants?
How much more expensive is the GTS over the GT? Wasnt the R8 included too??
The GTS's real suiter its the GT-P, yet the mags seem no feel its not needed, the GT-P has much better brakes and is positioned against the GTS price wise, i wonder how much faster a GT-P would have lapped Winton again.....
Anyway who's talking drag strips? Last time i checked most roads have corners, Some scribes feel the rear end ballast made the GTS more settled and faster..

Aaaaahh now we're starting to open up your distorted views some more...

OK, I'll bite, why was the cheaper GS so much slower than the GTS?

They were non-ideal combatants alright. If you run the same cars on a stinking hot day, you might conceivably see both GS and GT lagging both non-LPi HSVs?

You like to quote magazine times only if it suits your biased views and your question proves it. We are talking performance sedans vs performance sedans. The price diff is irrelevant as they are both affordable for the market segment they are aimed at.

The GTS was more balanced that the GT. Don't misquote your BS views with what is witten in the article. I'm no fool so don't take me for one. Proof? I don't think you can provide.

[4VMan]

Aaaaahh now we're starting to open up your distorted views some more...

OK, I'll bite, why was the cheaper GS so much slower than the GTS?

They were non-ideal combatants alright. If you run the same cars on a stinking hot day, you might conceivably see both GS and GT lagging both non-LPi HSVs?

You like to quote magazine times only if it suits your biased views and your question proves it. We are talking performance sedans vs performance sedans. The price diff is irrelevant as they are both affordable for the market segment they are aimed at.

Ok, ill bite.... why are hypothetical conditions being thrown up?
Lets talk same day, same place, same time?
What was the outcome? Oh that's right... What does 16kph faster at the end of the straight look like???!!!:bow:

[gsw]

If my car was blown and didnt pull off at the very least a high 11 sec time i would be pissed.
I only had put a camshaft in my clubby to run 11.7.

I could make my 302 XA GS do that too if I sunk enough money into it. We are talking stock vs stock.

As for your 1/4 mile claim regarding the GT all we have seen so far is only a couple of magazines give it a go. Before making these claims at least give it some time to get into the hands of the general public. It was the same case for the F6 when it first arrived on the market.

[EfiJy]

Ok, ill bite.... why are hypothetical conditions being thrown up?
Lets talk same day, same place, same time?
What was the outcome? Oh that's right... What does 16kph faster at the end of the straight look like???!!!:bow:

You talk track times and then you want to talk drag strips.

How old are you? You sound like a 14 yo.

[4VMan]

You talk track times and then you want to talk drag strips.

How old are you? You sound like a 14 yo.
Nice manners... Are you getting frustrated because youre snookered?

Im talking circuit.... look at the lap times and speed at the end of the main straight.... Yep the GTS carry's more corner speed but the GT runs it down like a wounded rabbit....

[HSV 408]

What did it run stock??

Not sure was only stock for week then in went a nice lumpy cam:dancenana:
What did the coyote run !/4 mile wise b4 ford aust put the blower on ?

[4VMan]

Not sure was only stock for week then in went a nice lumpy cam:dancenana:
What did the coyote run !/4 mile wise b4 ford aust put the blower on ?

What has an old modified VX got to do with this topic?

FPV have never fitted a N/A coyote to a GT......

[EfiJy]

Nice manners... Are you getting frustrated because youre snookered?

Im talking circuit.... look at the lap times and speed at the end of the main straight.... Yep the GTS carry's more corner speed but the GT runs it down like a wounded rabbit....

Mate, I'm just using your line of reasoning. You keep changing your own argument.

If you talk track times at Winton, the GTS was quicker than the more powerful GS. Sure the GT was quickest but take 100kg out of the GTS (and the VE has near perfect front - rear weight distribution) I reckon the 0.5s in track time would have vanished.

We (you actually) are trying to win an argument over nothing. The conditions could be worse still (for the test conducted), is all I'm saying.

Are you sure you don't attend school?

[nikola]

Not sure was only stock for week then in went a nice lumpy cam:dancenana:

What's your fuel consumption like with that cam?



What did the coyote run !/4 mile wise b4 ford aust put the blower on ?

This comment makes no sense. Why would you ask such a question? It's like asking what an LSx engine would run with 5 litres of capacity. It's irrelevant.

[HSV 408]

I could make my 302 XA GS do that too if I sunk enough money into it. We are talking stock vs stock.

As for your 1/4 mile claim regarding the GT all we have seen so far is only a couple of magazines give it a go. Before making these claims at least give it some time to get into the hands of the general public. It was the same case for the F6 when it first arrived on the market.

Haha you would have to sink a shit load into it alright :-)
How is a blown motor stock !!!
Thats what i like about the 1/4 all the bullshit stops right there.

[Plenty]

You've got nothing to be dissapointed about them.. :-)

Every comparative test thus far has stated the GTS is the better handler the better tourer, it has far superior grip and power down, better brakes.
You my friend are riding on a high, much like when the F6 came out.....yet still FORD and FPV can't sell cars so no matter the number on the boot or in the mag it all means Shite if they can't sell the things!

[HSV 408]

What's your fuel consumption like with that cam?




This comment makes no sense. Why would you ask such a question? It's like asking what an LSx engine would run with 5 litres of capacity. It's irrelevant.

Fuel economy is good thanks any hi -performance engine needs more fuel to make more power though.
well this motor was not blown b4 it got to aus was it ?

[gsw]

What did the coyote run !/4 mile wise b4 ford aust put the blower on ?

If we are talking purely about an unopened/unblown 5L and nothing else then here you go.

http://www.mylrs.com/blogs/lrs/archive/2010/07/23/2011-mustang-gt-5-0-drag-strip-track-times.aspx

[Plenty]

Nice manners... Are you getting frustrated because youre snookered?

Im talking circuit.... look at the lap times and speed at the end of the main straight.... Yep the GTS carry's more corner speed but the GT runs it down like a wounded rabbit....

You absolute @#$@$ that is our point completely the GTS out guns it handling wise and then the 1 dimensional FPV comes screaming up wait for it...IN A STRAIGHT LINE! :1peek:

[mrtockley]

Not sure was only stock for week then in went a nice lumpy cam:dancenana:
What did the coyote run !/4 mile wise b4 ford aust put the blower on ?

YouTube - 2011 Mustang 5.0L vs Camaro 6.2L Drag Races

Snap! 5.0 Lt makes the 6.2 Lt look pretty silly and that's before a S/C !

[EfiJy]

Don't get me wrong. I love both HSV and FPV. I could quite easily own either in 4 years time. :goodjob:

But I could reasonably say that if you were looking to mod either car, it doesn't take a genius to work out the GT will always be cheapest band 4 buck. It's an awesome package even if unproven. I'm sure it will win a lot of friends.

The HSV is also a great package. Sure it might cost a bit much but I'd rather get an SS and mod it to my hearts content if its just performance I'm after. There's more to a car than just top end performance. IMO the HSVs look tough and feel great to drive even just cruising.

Pick your poison, you can't lose with either car. We should all be proud V8 owners and fans.

[nikola]

Fuel economy is good thanks any hi -performance engine needs more fuel to make more power though.

You sure? Cammed cars have much, much worse fuel economy than standard.

But, this Ford engine seems to have the same consumption (if not better according to Wheels and Motor magazines) than the pushrod HSV's while making cammed levels of power and much more low end torque in the process.


well this motor was not blown b4 it got to aus was it ?

It doesn't matter. What matters is how it's being delivered to the buyers.

But if you must know, watch some youtube Mustang videos of the naturally aspirated version of this motor. It's in the 12's.

[Uncle Tone]

YouTube - 2011 Mustang 5.0L vs Camaro 6.2L Drag Races (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHqbqGCCMc)

Snap! 5.0 Lt makes the 6.2 Lt look pretty silly and that's before a S/C !

I reckon they both looked pretty silly after that plane landed on them :lol:

[mrtockley]

You absolute @#$@$ that is our point completely the GTS out guns it handling wise and then the 1 dimensional FPV comes screaming up wait for it...IN A STRAIGHT LINE! :1peek:

Who cares? It still wins. Which HSV owner is going to take their $80 odd thousand dollar GTS to a track where they're not covered by insurance OR HSV's warranty ? ?

[Uncle Tone]

You absolute @#$@$ that is our point completely the GTS out guns it handling wise and then the 1 dimensional FPV comes screaming up wait for it...IN A STRAIGHT LINE! :1peek:

To 99.9% of people that buy these cars the extra handling prowess of the GTS won't mean shit, and they wouldn't even notice the difference.

But....the clear difference in straight line acceleration they definitely WILL notice....so the HSV loses.

[mrtockley]

To 99.9% of people that buy these cars the extra handling prowess of the GTS won't mean shit, and they wouldn't even notice the difference.

But....the clear difference in straight line acceleration they definitely WILL notice....so the HSV loses.

+ 1. I notice the TT is up for sale UT. You planning on switching camps ?

[Plenty]

Who cares? It still wins. Which HSV owner is going to take their $80 odd thousand dollar GTS to a track where they're not covered by insurance OR HSV's warranty ? ?
How many GT owners will accelerate to 180km/h over 400m of a road?


To 99.9% of people that buy these cars the extra handling prowess of the GTS won't mean shit, and they wouldn't even notice the difference.

But....the clear difference in straight line acceleration they definitely WILL notice....so the HSV loses.

I doubt anyone that drives a HSV would think they have lost anything! stock ss' and hsv have been losing to Turbo 6's for years now, pretty sure they not losing any sleep over it. I know i don't

[HSV 408]

If we are talking purely about an unopened/unblown 5L and nothing else then here you go.

http://www.mylrs.com/blogs/lrs/archive/2010/07/23/2011-mustang-gt-5-0-drag-strip-track-times.aspx

Cheers that is Quicker than aust blown version then (mustang must be lighter than the fg ) mustang is a nice looking car but the corvette zr1 is still the one to have out of the yank cars.( as you can tell i am one eyed Holden & Gm :-) All the same will be good to see them up at Willowbank to see what times they really do. My thinking just from reading is that was pretty ordinary times from a blown car.( Ford or Holden) considering how much it costs.(You can put a cam in and do better times for a shit load less $$$$$)

[mrtockley]

How many GT owners will accelerate to 180km/h over 400m of a road?

Well the average HSV / FPV owner has more of a chance running it down the 1/4 mile than taking it to Phillip Island wouldn't you think ?

[ExAreSix]

So we've got this clown Efijy wearing blinkers and contradicting himself with each new post.
Some noob called Plenty, who's getting all emotional and resorting to internet swearing to try and make a point.
And 4Vman wasting his breath arguing with a brick wall.

At the end of the day you're all arguing a moot point. And the motor journos are guilty of it too.

You are comparing track times for 1800-1900kilo 4 door sedans. They aren't meant to go around a track fast. That's what AWD STIs and EVOs are for.
And they don't accelerate as well as their power would have you think, because they are near on 2 tonne!

What these cars are made for is Grand Touring. And they fit the bill as well as each other, depending how you wish to look at it. And really you wouldn't be right or wrong either way.

For me, the GT will do it just that little better. That on tap mountain of power will absolutely shine on long hauls, when regular overtaking is needed. (or desired :bow:) Roll on acceleration is where this car has it in spades. And that sound... :headbang:
Sure, a GTS has no problem with overtaking prowess either, but it won't excite you as much doing it as a GT will.
The GTS impresses with it's range offered when equipped with LPi. I was shocked and a little embarrassed for the GT when I read how far the damn thing went without refuelling. Though, when you think about it, you are gaining alot of weight, and sacrificng a lot of boot space.


The GT is sporting a world class donk largely developed right here in Australia, by Australians. You can't say that for it's HSV couterpart.


Anyway, that's how I look at these cars. I'll be buying a second hand GT in 18-24mths time for family touring duties. I'll be keeping my STi for accelerating and going around corners.

[EfiJy]

So we've got this clown Efijy wearing blinkers and contradicting himself with each new post.
Some noob called Plenty, who's getting all emotional and resorting to internet swearing to try and make a point.
And 4Vman wasting his breath arguing with a brick wall.

At the end of the day you're all arguing a moot point. And the motor journos are guilty of it too.

You are comparing track times for 1800-1900kilo 4 door sedans. They aren't meant to go around a track fast. That's what AWD STIs and EVOs are for.
And they don't accelerate as well as their power would have you think, because they are near on 2 tonne!

What these cars are made for is Grand Touring. And they fit the bill as well as each other, depending how you wish to look at it. And really you wouldn't be right or wrong either way.

For me, the GT will do it just that little better. That on tap mountain of power will absolutely shine on long hauls, when regular overtaking is needed. (or desired :bow:) Roll on acceleration is where this car has it in spades. And that sound... :headbang:
Sure, a GTS has no problem with overtaking prowess either, but it won't excite you as much doing it as a GT will.
The GTS impresses with it's range offered when equipped with LPi. I was shocked and a little embarrassed for the GT when I read how far the damn thing went without refuelling. Though, when you think about it, you are gaining alot of weight, and sacrificng a lot of boot space.


The GT is sporting a world class donk largely developed right here in Australia, by Australians. You can't say that for it's HSV couterpart.


Anyway, that's how I look at these cars. I'll be buying a second hand GT in 18-24mths time for family touring duties. I'll be keeping my STi for accelerating and going around corners.

Not contradicting myself at all. It's a shame you prejudge some people. It's trouble makers like you who should be banded for life from forums as you're just interested in stirring shit u troll.

What say you moderators. Ban this prick!

[4VMan]

Not sure all the petty name calling ads much value to the debate beyond showing the relative insecurities about the reality in front of them....

[701let]

I think we all need to remember that this is a Holden / ls1 forum.. And for some people even if this new falcon had wings and could take off it still is just a falcon to alot of people... Especially people on ls1.com.

[FLASH-0889]

I think we all need to remember that this is a Holden / ls1 forum.. And for some people even if this new falcon had wings and could take off it still is just a falcon to alot of people... Especially people on ls1.com.

Amen! If your a Holden fan ur going to hate it, if your a ford fan, then it's the best thing since sliced bread. For really how close these times are between the cars, it's not even worth the argument, yet alone getting ford a mention on a Holden forum! Holden will match it soon and probably do better, then ford will come out and up the anti. It's like the circle of life for Holden and ford but anyway this argument goes down the drain once people buy them, cause the first thing people will be doing is modifying them once they hit the streets, new exhaust, better intake, bigger cams. Am I wrong?

[4VMan]

I think we all need to remember that this is a Holden / ls1 forum.. And for some people even if this new falcon had wings and could take off it still is just a falcon to alot of people... Especially people on ls1.com.

Agree 100%, but its still possible to have a genuine well balance debate without it turning into a name calling sooky lala hissy fit because people cant gain a position on their merrits alone...

[vr5speedv6]

YouTube - 2011 Mustang 5.0L vs Camaro 6.2L Drag Races (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHqbqGCCMc)

Snap! 5.0 Lt makes the 6.2 Lt look pretty silly and that's before a S/C !

:rofl: Nice try. Most of the tests I've read has them line ball or the camaro with the slight edge (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/comparison-test-2011-ford-mustang-gt-vs-2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss.html). This despite the camaro been over 100Kgs heavier!!
So I can understand why ford oz needed to resort to boost to take on the LS3:bow:

[gsw]

:rofl: Nice try. Most of the tests I've read has them line ball or the camaro with the slight edge (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/comparison-test-2011-ford-mustang-gt-vs-2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss.html). This despite the camaro been over 100Kgs heavier!!
So I can understand why ford oz needed to resort to boost to take on the LS3:bow:

Really, Have a look at this one. I thought it was a fair flogging. If we want to play the weight game we could also say the Ford engine is smaller in capacity. We can't play what if's because it isnt so.

YouTube - 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 vs. Camaro SS Drag Race - Bonus VIdeo

[nikola]

:rofl: Nice try. Most of the tests I've read has them line ball or the camaro with the slight edge (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/comparison-test-2011-ford-mustang-gt-vs-2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss.html). This despite the camaro been over 100Kgs heavier!!

What are you trying to prove exactly? The Mustang is faster according to that article.

[vr5speedv6]

What are you trying to prove exactly? The Mustang is faster according to that article.

"There are those who will judge this match purely on drag strip performance. OK, fine. The Camaro SS is still quicker than the Mustang GT. But not by much."

I think you need to have another read of it ;)

[vr5speedv6]

Really, Have a look at this one. I thought it was a fair flogging. If we want to play the weight game we could also say the Ford engine is smaller in capacity. We can't play what if's because it isnt so.

YouTube - 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 vs. Camaro SS Drag Race - Bonus VIdeo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTL9psDWKjU&feature=related)

The start on that clip looked a little bogus to me.
And despite the ford weighing less with a smaller capacity engine, it used more fuel:confused:

[mrtockley]

:rofl: Nice try. Most of the tests I've read has them line ball or the camaro with the slight edge (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/comparison-test-2011-ford-mustang-gt-vs-2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss.html). This despite the camaro been over 100Kgs heavier!!
So I can understand why ford oz needed to resort to boost to take on the LS3:bow:

Yes the Camaro has a better rear end, much wider tires, plus more power and torque. It's not a very relevant comparison for Aus anyway as the Coyote won't be competing against the LS3, it will be competing against the L98 and if Ford decide not to de-tune it for the XR8, then it's going to kill the 6.0 Lt.

I think people like yourself are getting carried away with suggesting that by Ford adding a S/C is somehow a fail. All of the premium Euro manufacturers have been shrinking capacity and adding some form of F/I for years now. It's time GM caught up to the rest of the world instead of adding more and more Cubic inches. Tech beats cubes in nearly every application.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Haha you would have to sink a shit load into it alright :-)
How is a blown motor stock !!!
Thats what i like about the 1/4 all the bullshit stops right there.

It's stock because that's how it comes from the factory, with warranty... Just like an XR6T is stock. They might not be NA, but they're still stock.

As for the 1/4 mile times; I'm sure we'll see better times when other people start driving them. We'll see the true times of what the car can do when a tuner takes out all the torque management and programmed safety stuff, but otherwise leaving it stock...

After that we'll see what times they'll run with increased boost and tuning.

I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between stock, stock with torque management stuff removed and then tuned.

[vr5speedv6]

Yes the Camaro has a better rear end, much wider tires, plus more power and torque. It's not a very relevant comparison for Aus anyway as the Coyote won't be competing against the LS3, it will be competing against the L98 and if Ford decide not to de-tune it for the XR8, then it's going to kill the 6.0 Lt.

I think people like yourself are getting carried away with suggesting that by Ford adding a S/C is somehow a fail. All of the premium Euro manufacturers have been shrinking capacity and adding some form of F/I for years now. It's time GM caught up to the rest of the world instead of adding more and more Cubic inches. Tech beats cubes in nearly every application.

So hows the tech helping in the mustangs case? It uses more fuel despite smaller capacity and and being in a much lighter car!

[JimmyXR6T04]

So hows the tech helping in the mustangs case? It uses more fuel despite smaller capacity and and being in a much lighter car!

From what i read of that article, there wasn't much in it regarding fuel? Lets not forget that driving style is probably the biggest factor with fuel consumption in modern V8s. So fuel consumption arguments between two V8s is a bit of a mute point really...

Edit: Not sure why we're really discussing the USA models, i thought we were in Aus.... On a side note; The USA models looks too much alike. To the general public who don't give a toss about cars, i'm sure they couldn't pick the difference between a de-badged Mustang and Camaro..

[HSV 408]

What Holden should do is import the corvette zr1 motor (which is blown) sell it in a clubby = pure power because everyone knows it is all about cubes with tech to say its not about cubes is silly . just have a look at Eddy Tasones GTO heading down the track on youtube. To say cubes dont play a part is nonsense. i still haven't seen any 5.0 top fuelers around ?

[vr5speedv6]

From what i read of that article, there wasn't much in it regarding fuel? Lets not forget that driving style is probably the biggest factor with fuel consumption in modern V8s. So fuel consumption arguments between two V8s is a bit of a mute point really...

Edit: Not sure why we're really discussing the USA models, i thought we were in Aus.... On a side note; The USA models looks too much alike. To the general public who don't give a toss about cars, i'm sure they couldn't pick the difference between a de-badged Mustang and Camaro..

There was a pretty big difference actually, 14.9 vs 17 mpg ! No doubt they were having to rev that little stang hard to keep up with the camaro:bawl:
Only bringing it up thanks to mrtockely. And the stang looks like :spew: IMO as does the falcon. Even more so actually.

[HSV 408]

It's stock because that's how it comes from the factory, with warranty... Just like an XR6T is stock. They might not be NA, but they're still stock.

As for the 1/4 mile times; I'm sure we'll see better times when other people start driving them. We'll see the true times of what the car can do when a tuner takes out all the torque management and programmed safety stuff, but otherwise leaving it stock...

After that we'll see what times they'll run with increased boost and tuning.

I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between stock, stock with torque management stuff removed and then tuned.
Everyone Knows this auto needs the torque management on. All we need is to be waiting half an hour four the next run at the street meets while they pick the pieces of the track;)

[vr5speedv6]

Everyone Knows this auto needs the torque management on. All we need is to be waiting half an hour four the next run at the street meets while they pick the pieces of the track;)

:rofl: very true

[HSV 408]

All you guys go and buy a pos ford have a try but you will come back to the best ( because we all know its a HOLDEN) Even have a look at that other pos forum but you will come back to LS1.com because it is also the best:cool:

[JimmyXR6T04]

Everyone Knows this auto needs the torque management on. All we need is to be waiting half an hour four the next run at the street meets while they pick the pieces of the track;)

The gearbox isn't the problem. Both the ZF and 6sp manual have proven to hold pretty big power... The manual has held bigger power in the 6T for years, and i'm talking 450rwkw+... The ZF probably isn't as proven, but so far it's proven pretty capable...


There was a pretty big difference actually, 14.9 vs 17 mpg ! No doubt they were having to rev that little stang hard to keep up with the camaro:bawl:
Only bringing it up thanks to mrtockely. And the stang looks like :spew: IMO as does the falcon. Even more so actually.

Perhaps you should have a look at the stats on the right of the article... Unless i'm mistaken, it was 17 for the camaro, and 14.9 for the stang....

[vr5speedv6]

Perhaps you should have a look at the stats on the right of the article... Unless i'm mistaken, it was 17 for the camaro, and 14.9 for the stang....

You're obviously a little confused Jimmy, so I'll explain:rofl: with miles per gallon, you want to have the bigger number!

[mrtockley]

So hows the tech helping in the mustangs case? It uses more fuel despite smaller capacity and and being in a much lighter car!

The official ratings are 17 / 26 mpg city / hwy for the Mustang vs 16 / 24 for the Camaro which favors the Coyote. The testing results may have differed but who knows what tests were conducted under what conditions in what cars?

Fact is that the Coyote easily keeps up with something that is has a 1.2 liter advantage.

[saleen1]

There was another 'complete package' in my rear view mirror last night. And that's where it stayed. Maybe he was busy 'playing and ripping music' and touching his screen, lol.

[JimmyXR6T04]

You're obviously a little confused Jimmy, so I'll explain:rofl: with miles per gallon, you want to have the bigger number!

haha yep, my bad! I'll blame the 6 night shifts in the past 9 days for that one!

[nikola]

"There are those who will judge this match purely on drag strip performance. OK, fine. The Camaro SS is still quicker than the Mustang GT. But not by much."

I think you need to have another read of it ;)

I've read it 3 times now. Have you read it?

Camaro: 13.1 seconds at 110.4 mph
Mustang: 13 seconds at 110.6 mph

[Wonky]

I've read it 3 times now. Have you read it?

Camaro: 13.1 seconds at 110.4 mph
Mustang: 13 seconds at 110.6 mph

A very small bee's dick. SFA. Won't make one iota of difference to 99.99% of people.

[mrtockley]

What Holden should do is import the corvette zr1 motor (which is blown) sell it in a clubby = pure power because everyone knows it is all about cubes with tech to say its not about cubes is silly . just have a look at Eddy Tasones GTO heading down the track on youtube. To say cubes dont play a part is nonsense. i still haven't seen any 5.0 top fuelers around ?

That is one of the most stupid comparisons I've read on this forum. Comparing a road car with a Top Fuel drag car with up to 6,000 kW to a 5.0 lt road engine .. are you serious? :confused:

The V8 super cars which are a little bit closer to their road going donors seem to go ok with only little 5.0 litre engines ..

[macca_779]

A very small bee's dick. SFA. Won't make one iota of difference to 99.99% of people.

That's true Gaz. But its still quicker with a 1.2L deficit. Again who really cares, the economy is similar enough so meh what ever. But what does matter is that our version has a 1.9L Supercharger on top of an already great motor. :)

[SM1DY]

A very small bee's dick. SFA. Won't make one iota of difference to 99.99% of people.

Ask any racer, any real racer, it doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winnings winning!!!

Just playing round lets keep it cool shall we? I don't want anyone going on a shooting rampage because of a joke.

[nikola]

A very small bee's dick. SFA. Won't make one iota of difference to 99.99% of people.

Shhh, I'm having an Internet argument. Every little bee's dick counts.

[saleen1]

All you guys go and buy a pos ford have a try but you will come back to the best ( because we all know its a HOLDEN) Even have a look at that other pos forum but you will come back to LS1.com because it is also the best:cool:

Does referring to your cars output in rear wheel horsepower make you feel like it's tougher than it reall is? Get with the times! :jester:

[Kuzman89]

The official ratings are 17 / 26 mpg city / hwy for the Mustang vs 16 / 24 for the Camaro which favors the Coyote. The testing results may have differed but who knows what tests were conducted under what conditions in what cars?

Fact is that the Coyote easily keeps up with something that is has a 1.2 liter advantage.

and a wieght disadvantage :)

[mrtockley]

Shhh, I'm having an Internet argument. Every little bee's dick counts.

You know what they say ? "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded!" Hehe..

[Vulture]

There was another 'complete package' in my rear view mirror last night. And that's where it stayed. Maybe he was busy 'playing and ripping music' and touching his screen, lol.

Your G6ET is completely stock?

[ratter]

Is it school holiday time?

Looking at some the comparisons makes me feel like it is

[Speedy Gonzales]

As I suspected and confirmed today, waiting list is 3 months min for built to order.

[vr5speedv6]

The official ratings are 17 / 26 mpg city / hwy for the Mustang vs 16 / 24 for the Camaro which favors the Coyote. The testing results may have differed but who knows what tests were conducted under what conditions in what cars?

Fact is that the Coyote easily keeps up with something that is has a 1.2 liter advantage.

In the article I linked the official EPA figures were 16/24 mpg for both cars, but the observed figures were significantly better for the camaro which is probably more representative of the real world:goodjob:
So basically there's no advantage to all that tech that I can see:confused:

[Ghia351]

Your G6ET is completely stock?Come now, surely everyone knows us cardigan wearing G6ET owners don't bother with mods.....we have private school fees to take up the spare cash....

[dawkinsdisciple]

must.. not... feed.. trolls...

G6ET = awesome. got it. go annoy someone else with how great your cars are now...

i think mrtockley's latest post sums it up...

[vr5speedv6]

I've read it 3 times now. Have you read it?

Camaro: 13.1 seconds at 110.4 mph
Mustang: 13 seconds at 110.6 mph

Yes, but I only had to read it once:bow:
I think you're getting confused with the mustang they tested at a later date, which obviously would be under different conditions.
Here's the important part copied for you:
"On the quarter-mile at Auto Club Speedway in lush, parklike Fontana, California, IL's long-term Camaro SS whomped to 60 mph from a standstill in just 5.1 seconds with the traction control turned off (4.8 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). The full quarter-mile went by in 13.1 seconds at 110.4 mph.

Our red Mustang GT (on all-season Pirelli P Zero Nero tires) matched the Camaro SS's blast to 60 mph by hitting that speed in an identical 5.1 seconds from a standstill with the traction control turned off (4.8 seconds with 1 foot of rollout). But the quarter-mile took another two-tenths to complete with a slightly lower trap speed, 13.3 seconds at 107.3 mph."

[Vulture]

Come now, surely everyone knows us cardigan wearing G6ET owners don't bother with mods.....we have private school fees to take up the spare cash....

...and lawn bowls lessons? :stick:

Saw a nice G6ET the other day at a Ford dealership - I do like them, pension me off then!

[Ghia351]

...and lawn bowls lessons? :stick:

Saw a nice G6ET the other day at a Ford dealership - I do like them, pension me off then!cheap grog afterwards....

[nikola]

Yes, but I only had to read it once:bow:
I think you're getting confused with the mustang they tested at a later date, which obviously would be under different conditions.

They didn't say that they tested the blue Mustang at a later date or in different conditions. In fact, the blue Mustang was on "summer tires" which would be a more fair comparison to the Camaro which was also on summer tires. The red (slower) Mustang was an all season tires which made it slower. So with all things being equal, the Mustang is still faster.

I can't believe I'm arguing over 2 tenths of a second.

[EfiJy]

I found this dyno graph of the 5.0L Coyote vs the LS3 for those interested. Don't forget the 5.0L Coyote runs the VCT which the Falcon computer doesn't support.

I read that without VCT the 5.0L Coyote wouldn't match the Boss 290 for power. But it's all irrelevant until the XR8 arrives.

http://www.lgmotorsports.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2011%20mustang%20vs%202010%20camaro.jpg

The LS3 outgrunts the Coyote as you can see from the torque curve. Where the Coyote matches the LS3 is at the top end. Even if there is a difference of 1.2L, it goes to show there is no replacement for displacement.

[Plenty]

Some noob called Plenty, who's getting all emotional and resorting to internet swearing to try and make a point.



Any I'll be keeping my STi for accelerating and going around corners.

Me emotional ba ha ha ha ha, look at all the FORD supporters come outta the woodwork as soon as they get a better engine.

And last time the STI was compared to an SS the STI got eaten, straight line and through the mountains! wet roads well that's one thing an STI will win.

There's no real need for any Holden member to prove a point, the proof is in the sales people just don't like the Falcon.

[vr5speedv6]

They didn't say that they tested the blue Mustang at a later date or in different conditions. In fact, the blue Mustang was on "summer tires" which would be a more fair comparison to the Camaro which was also on summer tires. The red (slower) Mustang was an all season tires which made it slower. So with all things being equal, the Mustang is still faster.

I can't believe I'm arguing over 2 tenths of a second.


Here's your blue mustang test (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-full-test-and-video.html) Different date, different conditions. I can't believe you read it 3 times and you kept missing the bit where it said the camaro was faster:confused:. And the blue stang was .1sec and .2mph faster BTW.

[macca_779]

I found this dyno graph of the 5.0L Coyote vs the LS3 for those interested. Don't forget the 5.0L Coyote runs the VCT which the Falcon computer doesn't support.

I read that without VCT the 5.0L Coyote wouldn't match the Boss 290 for power. But it's all irrelevant until the XR8 arrives.


The LS3 outgrunts the Coyote as you can see from the torque curve. Where the Coyote matches the LS3 is at the top end. Even if there is a difference of 1.2L, it goes to show there is no replacement for displacement.

Clearly there is. It's called FORCED INDUCTION.

For what's it's worth the Falcon controller does support VCT. Just not Dual VCT, so we can control the inlet cams.

[vr5speedv6]

There's no real need for any Holden member to prove a point, the proof is in the sales people just don't like the Falcon.

Wonder if it's got anything to do with how they still look like a tarted up AU ?

[Wezza]

There was another 'complete package' in my rear view mirror last night. And that's where it stayed. Maybe he was busy 'playing and ripping music' and touching his screen, lol.

Boy racers. lol

[mrtockley]

Wonder if it's got anything to do with how they still look like a tarted up AU ?

Funny someone having a crack at the AU when he bought an E2.. :confused:

[Kuzman89]

Funny someone having a crack at the AU when he bought an E2.. :confused:

Not really. The AU didn't sell very well whereas the E2 does.

Proof is in the pudding

[Plenty]

There was another 'complete package' in my rear view mirror last night. And that's where it stayed. Maybe he was busy 'playing and ripping music' and touching his screen, lol.

Wow your car that Fugly you need to stare at the one behind you? suppose all that plastic chrome would be hard to look at!
Is there a reason Ford fan boys persist on posting on a HOLDEN forum with there sh!t stirring crap.

Face it the Holden/HSV's had had your number for that long, that as soon as something new comes out you jump and scream like a kid in an amusement park.

October 2010
Falcon a pathetic 2265 cars
Commodore a market leading 4038

Seems the country puts more emphasis on the "Complete Package" than just your forced induction prowess! :goodjob:

[EfiJy]

Clearly there is. It's called FORCED INDUCTION.

For what's it's worth the Falcon controller does support VCT. Just not Dual VCT, so we can control the inlet cams.

Ah thanks for clearing that up, Macca.

I agree, forced induction, is a real alternative to displacement but I became embroiled in the Mustang vs Camaro barney and that's why I brought up the dyno chart.

Irrelevant to this thread topic, you are right. :)

[SM1DY]

Wow your car that Fugly you need to stare at the one behind you? suppose all that plastic chrome would be hard to look at!
Is there a reason Ford fan boys persist on posting on a HOLDEN forum with there sh!t stirring crap.

Face it the Holden/HSV's had had your number for that long, that as soon as something new comes out you jump and scream like a kid in an amusement park.

October 2010
Falcon a pathetic 2265 cars
Commodore a market leading 4038

Seems the country puts more emphasis on the "Complete Package" than just your forced induction prowess! :goodjob:



HAHAHA, it's obvious to see your hurting so I'll keep this brief. The G-series Falcons have been rated as having quite a fantastic interior. Also, the fact that you include the 'Complete package' quote in your reply implies you believe that having the biggest number on the boot isn't of vital importance, which is fine, but then you go and ruin it by including the sale figures and gloating that the Commodore has bigger sales numbers than the Falcon and that it is of big significance.

Also, the fanboi remark ins't needed. This thread was quite mature and insightful until your post. So lets keep it in perspective and act like the adults that we all know we can be.

[EfiJy]

HAHAHA, it's obvious to see your hurting so I'll keep this brief. The G-series Falcons have been rated as having quite a fantastic interior. Also, the fact that you include the 'Complete package' quote in your reply implies you believe that having the biggest number on the boot isn't of vital importance, which is fine, but then you go and ruin it by including the sale figures and gloating that the Commodore has bigger sales numbers than the Falcon and that it is of big significance.

Also, the fanboi remark ins't needed. This thread was quite mature and insightful until your post. So lets keep it in perspective and act like the adults that we all know we can be.

Apart from one or two trolls, I agree. The Ford fans have been quite friendly.

I had an FG G6E for a week last month and I was really impressed with the chassis strength (never a creak from the dash over sharp bumps) and the comfort/interior appointments.

I think people should stop arguing over lap times, handling or straight line times. If you are lucky enough to be shopping for a new ride, test as many cars as possible. The best car is always the car that suits your needs. The badge isn't as important and sheep stations aren't being awarded to the best argument. It's irrelevant to your wants/needs.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

This thread has somewhat turned into the GS, GT, GTS, R8, Mustang, Camaro, VX, VT, VY, VL and AU.......

Either way you look at the debate, the GS, GT (Miami) is a great engine in a good chassis with poor springs, shocks and alignment from the factory for the track. But on the street, I don't think your average punter would notice much difference, but for those who like to take corners like I do, handling rocks....and cannot be taken away from, as many have put it, "complete package". At the same time, to feel the rush when putting that right foot down is insane. At the moment it seems to come down to a comprmise between corners on a track or outright low down torque and top end power as far as go is concerned. As far as looks go, that is for the individual to decide.....even fat chicks need some lovin'.

[vr5speedv6]

Funny someone having a crack at the AU when he bought an E2.. :confused:

I knew you had bad tastes from your ford loving posts, but comparing an E2 to that cockroach is just sad!! And it's the same cockroach DNA you can see in the current falcon:rofl:

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Like my last post,taste is subjective. AU and E2 and E3 are ugly...so what is the point?

Seems possibly some bad taste was carried over from the Director or VL Walkinshaw to like the body of the modern HSV perhaps?

A little too much thumbs up backsides here, a little more maturity would not go astray.

[tmob]

wow.... i've just read this thread from start to finish.
I had to remind myself of the topic a couple of times. At one stage I started to think it was a thread about drags and 1/4 mile times, only to realize its actually a thread discussing the latest style & appearance of Holden/HSV...
Oops, wrong again... now I remember - its actually about the new FPV......

am amazed at the focus given to a 1/4 mile time, or a track / lap time of a 'STOCK, FACTORY CAR'.
Granted, people have an interest in improving/modifying/racing their cars, quarter times etc are important, but how many of us are actually going to buy a new car, and run it down the quarter regularly, in STOCK FACTORY form?
:soap:

moving on, A mate of mine who writes for carsales/carpoint recently did write-up on the GT-E. Ironically, its based on a track test day he was part of.... :doh:. I found it to be decent reading... http://www.carpoint.com.au/reviews/2010/large-passenger/fpv/gt-series/fpv-gte-track-test-22489

and, :flipoff: e2's are not ugly
:bawl:

[steve_t]

wow.... i've just read this thread from start to finish.
I had to remind myself of the topic a couple of times. At one stage I started to think it was a thread about drags and 1/4 mile times, only to realize its actually a thread discussing the latest style & appearance of Holden/HSV...
Oops, wrong again... now I remember - its actually about the new FPV......

am amazed at the focus given to a 1/4 mile time, or a track / lap time of a 'STOCK, FACTORY CAR'.
Granted, people have an interest in improving/modifying/racing their cars, quarter times etc are important, but how many of us are actually going to buy a new car, and run it down the quarter regularly, in STOCK FACTORY form?
:soap:

moving on, A mate of mine who writes for carsales/carpoint recently did write-up on the GT-E. Ironically, its based on a track test day he was part of.... :doh:. I found it to be decent reading... http://www.carpoint.com.au/reviews/2010/large-passenger/fpv/gt-series/fpv-gte-track-test-22489

and, :flipoff: e2's are not ugly
:bawl:

LOL. Did u even read what you wrote? What was the point of your post? :confused: You don't think we should be allowed to discuss the 1/4m performance or track performance of the "Supercharged FPV GS" or another car with the same engine, or its direct competitors made by Holden, on a holden site? It sounds like you only want people to discuss how the car would go once it gets modified - err... early days yet.

Or were you just wanting to give your mate at carpoint a free plug about how the car went on the track? Moving on and ironic indeed :1peek:

[Kuzman89]

Wow your car that Fugly you need to stare at the one behind you? suppose all that plastic chrome would be hard to look at!
Is there a reason Ford fan boys persist on posting on a HOLDEN forum with there sh!t stirring crap.

Face it the Holden/HSV's had had your number for that long, that as soon as something new comes out you jump and scream like a kid in an amusement park.


haha PWNED.

[tmob]

LOL. Did u even read what you wrote? What was the point of your post? :confused: You don't think we should be allowed to discuss the 1/4m performance or track performance of the "Supercharged FPV GS" or another car with the same engine, or its direct competitors made by Holden, on a holden site? It sounds like you only want people to discuss how the car would go once it gets modified - err... early days yet.

Or were you just wanting to give your mate at carpoint a free plug about how the car went on the track? Moving on and ironic indeed :1peek:


No plug intended at all..... afaik carpoint dont pay their writers on a 'per hit' basis.... read it, or dont - no biggie. And I totally understand the basis of 'discussing' a cars 1/4 time. I certainly didnt intend on suggesting what should or shouldnt be allowed to be discussed. It just suprised me a little, how highly people seem to rate a car based on its stock 1/4 mile time. Personally I feel there is more to a car than just times, or 'numbers on spec sheet'... such as 'comfort and ergonomics...' dont you?


Yup. But I'd have to drive them back to back and compare all aspects like ergonomics and comfort rather than just numbers on a spec sheet. And as feistl said, it has to look the goods :goodjob:

:thumbsup:

[vr5speedv6]

Like my last post,taste is subjective. AU and E2 and E3 are ugly...so what is the point?

Seems possibly some bad taste was carried over from the Director or VL Walkinshaw to like the body of the modern HSV perhaps?

A little too much thumbs up backsides here, a little more maturity would not go astray.

My point is the current falcon and your BA have that AU look:spew:
Also glad to hear the E2 doesn't appeal to blokes who like playing with their backsides:rofl:

[nthnbeachesguy]

Personally I love Walkinshaws but I really dislike the E2 HSV, I also dislike the new interior layout of the Series 2 SSV so I won't be looking into either when it comes to get something new again. I may however have a squiz at the Ford.

[SM1DY]

Also glad to hear the E2 doesn't appeal to blokes who like playing with their backsides:rofl:

I don't think you quite undertand what he was saying, have another read.

[Plenty]

HAHAHA, it's obvious to see your hurting so I'll keep this brief. The G-series Falcons have been rated as having quite a fantastic interior. Also, the fact that you include the 'Complete package' quote in your reply implies you believe that having the biggest number on the boot isn't of vital importance, which is fine, but then you go and ruin it by including the sale figures and gloating that the Commodore has bigger sales numbers than the Falcon and that it is of big significance.

Also, the fanboi remark ins't needed. This thread was quite mature and insightful until your post. So lets keep it in perspective and act like the adults that we all know we can be.

why would i be hurting i love my car, it looks great and goes and sounds how i want it to, the VE looks tough not "elegant"....

The fan boy comment was quite right actually, generally all we have here is people that have come here just to stir crap up.

And the "complete package" thing well i was taking the piss!

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

My point is the current falcon and your BA have that AU look:spew:
Also glad to hear the E2 doesn't appeal to blokes who like playing with their backsides:rofl:

My point was that too many people here are playing themselves when they say my VT with a cam would smash the new GS/GT/anything else Ford has to offer. So what, so does my car, but I don't for one second compare it to a new factory car. When I refer to backsides, those are the people I am referring to, certainly not myself.

Style and taste is to the individual. When the VY Commodore came out I thought it had a good dose of the ugly stick. But it has grown on me over time....whereas the E2 and E3 have not improved in looks over time. But only my opinion.

I like the look of the BA and FG, the FG is so far removed from the AU I can't see where you draw the comparison. I don't think anyone can seriously come on here and say the FG GS and GT are not nice cars and be 100% committed to hating it. Just like I can't go elsewhere and say the HSV product is 100% rubbish. It's just not true and would only come from bias. I would like eithr car in my driveway, before the Miami engine came along, if the choice was HSV E1 or GT, I would go the HSV, but today with the new motor, I would go the GT, it has the upper hand with that engine, handling does not bother me because I would improve both of them anyway, these barges just don't handle well enough from the factory.

[SM1DY]

The fan boy comment was quite right actually, generally all we have here is people that have come here just to stir crap up.


I think you were being a litte bit over sensitive, it was a light hearted jab in the sense of having a friendly rivalry. It's hardly a remark a fanboy would make and the fact your so eager to start the name calling makes it look like the shoes on the other foot. Don't get so aggitated over something so trival, you'll make yourself a target.

[Martin_D]

Who cars how any of these cars go on the track? 99.99999999% of HSV/FPV owners are too scared to go anywhere near a track in the first place, and with good reason too, they - are not - track cars by any means. Which one has the biggest boot and the best rear shoulder room, thats more to the point :teach:

[Evman]

Who cars how any of these cars go on the track? 99.99999999% of HSV/FPV owners are too scared to go anywhere near a track in the first place, and with good reason too, they - are not - track cars by any means. Which one has the biggest boot and the best rear shoulder room, thats more to the point :teach:

:lol: That HAS to be tongue in cheek because you have always been very vocal about track performance. However, you're right. These are performance oriented family cars. Not factory sports cars.

[4VMan]

The "my modified (insert crapbox here) will smash your stock (insert new car here)" defense is childish in the extreme....
Surely we should be debating Factory stock V Factory stock?

[Martin_D]

:lol: That HAS to be tongue in cheek because you have always been very vocal about track performance.

True that, but I buy track orientated cars to race at the track and road orientated cars to drive on the road. Fact is HSV and FPV owners as a rule stay very, very clear of track days (obviously there are one or two exceptions as for every rule) and so they should, these are not cars designed to be quick or durable on a track - regardless of whether this is the pointless way they are tested by mainstream journos who want a taste of Clarkson in their life (and normally fail) :)

Commodores and Falcons are big family cars, with luckily enough some grunty engines. How they tow and what ecomony they get is just as important as the stop light grand prix :cool:

[mrtockley]

My point is the current falcon and your BA have that AU look:spew:
Also glad to hear the E2 doesn't appeal to blokes who like playing with their backsides:rofl:

What are you like 12 years old? Seriously, grow up. You own an E2 and a VX, arguably 2 of Holden and HSV's ugliest cars so I wouldn't be talking about ugly if I was you. Leave the bum and fart jokes back in the school yard yeah ?

[vessloveit]

I totally agree with Martin most Holden and Ford owners even the so called enthusiast whether their cars are modified or not will never see a 1/4 mile or track.

To me how they perform on the 1/4 or track is irrelevant how they look, drive etc is more important.

[mrtockley]

True that, but I buy track orientated cars to race at the track and road orientated cars to drive on the road. Fact is HSV and FPV owners as a rule stay very, very clear of track days (obviously there are one or two exceptions as for every rule) and so they should, these are not cars designed to be quick or durable on a track - regardless of whether this is the pointless way they are tested by mainstream journos who want a taste of Clarkson in their life (and normally fail) :)

Commodores and Falcons are big family cars, with luckily enough some grunty engines. How they tow and what ecomony they get is just as important as the stop light grand prix :cool:

Very well said Martin - and that about sums it up. Let's accept that they both make fantastic cars and we are very lucky that we can buy them here.

[vr5speedv6]

What are you like 12 years old? Seriously, grow up. You own an E2 and a VX, arguably 2 of Holden and HSV's ugliest cars so I wouldn't be talking about ugly if I was you. Leave the bum and fart jokes back in the school yard yeah ?

Says the guy with the username mrtockley:rofl:
Now the vx is ugly as well, isn't it strange how they've both been a sales success:confused:

[vr5speedv6]

In the article I linked the official EPA figures were 16/24 mpg for both cars, but the observed figures were significantly better for the camaro which is probably more representative of the real world:goodjob:
So basically there's no advantage to all that tech that I can see:confused:

BTW mrtockley you forgot to answer this!

[Plenty]

I think you were being a litte bit over sensitive, it was a light hearted jab in the sense of having a friendly rivalry. It's hardly a remark a fanboy would make and the fact your so eager to start the name calling makes it look like the shoes on the other foot. Don't get so aggitated over something so trival, you'll make yourself a target.

how is it being over sensitive? i said there are people that have just appeared from no where because they finally have something to brag about, but they fail to realise in the end an engine to the majority of buyers just won't make a difference.
People still bought the XR8 and GT with the 5.4L, straight line grunt obviously isn't the deciding factor!

[SM1DY]

how is it being over sensitive? i said there are people that have just appeared from no where because they finally have something to brag about, but they fail to realise in the end an engine to the majority of buyers just won't make a difference.
People still bought the XR8 and GT with the 5.4L, straight line grunt obviously isn't the deciding factor!

Your a special case aren't you? Sort of a work in progress. The people that have 'appeared out of nowhere' are the ones that actually have quite an extensive knowledge of this product, and where else to put it to use than a thread on that subject. They're not trying to antagonise people, it's more a case of setting the record straight and creating a lively discussion.

Just open up your mind hole and you might be able to enjoy the debate. If you've got anything else to say on the matter, perhaps the PM system would be more suitable, because this is hardly contributing to the thread.

[ExAreSix]

Very well said Martin - and that about sums it up. Let's accept that they both make fantastic cars and we are very lucky that we can buy them here.

Well I'm glad it was well received when Martin said it.

I said the same thing, but it made me a troll and a prick. :rofl:


Clowns

[Martin_D]

I am sick of every single road test being on a race track
and every single photo of some mug trying to 'drift' a car
None of the above matters to folks who buy these cars for the road.....

[Plenty]

Your a special case aren't you? Sort of a work in progress. The people that have 'appeared out of nowhere' are the ones that actually have quite an extensive knowledge of this product, and where else to put it to use than a thread on that subject. They're not trying to antagonise people, it's more a case of setting the record straight and creating a lively discussion.

Just open up your mind hole and you might be able to enjoy the debate. If you've got anything else to say on the matter, perhaps the PM system would be more suitable, because this is hardly contributing to the thread.

Insults from you now how mature, set the record straight? the record has been set, i believe for the past 11 years now! but that woulda put you in primary school back then.
And the only knowledge most of these people have is from what they have read on the net and in magazines.
Try to remember you are on a Holden forum with majority of Holden supporters and owners unlike your minority self!

I believe you should read some of the posts by the Ford boys and you will quite obviously see they are stirring, of course we are going to be defensive to our brand especially on a HOLDEN forum!

[SM1DY]

Insults from you now how mature, set the record straight? the record has been set, i believe for the past 11 years now! but that woulda put you in primary school back then.
And the only knowledge most of these people have is from what they have read on the net and in magazines.
Try to remember you are on a Holden forum with majority of Holden supporters and owners unlike your minority self!

I believe you should read some of the posts by the Ford boys and you will quite obviously see they are stirring, of course we are going to be defensive to our brand especially on a HOLDEN forum!

I'm done with you, your just another ignorant douche. I've tried to be respectful, but your just some hard headed idiot that can't see 2ft in front of their face.

[saleen1]

Wow your car that Fugly you need to stare at the one behind you? suppose all that plastic chrome would be hard to look at!
Is there a reason Ford fan boys persist on posting on a HOLDEN forum with there sh!t stirring crap.

Face it the Holden/HSV's had had your number for that long, that as soon as something new comes out you jump and scream like a kid in an amusement park.

October 2010
Falcon a pathetic 2265 cars
Commodore a market leading 4038

Seems the country puts more emphasis on the "Complete Package" than just your forced induction prowess! :goodjob:

You've only been a member since feb this year, you are just a wealth of knowledge. I look forward to learning from you. :rofl:

[FOON]

how is it being over sensitive? i said there are people that have just appeared from no where because they finally have something to brag about, but they fail to realise in the end an engine to the majority of buyers just won't make a difference.
People still bought the XR8 and GT with the 5.4L, straight line grunt obviously isn't the deciding factor!

Funny how most "that have come out of no where" have been on here longer than you.

[bouka]

What was this thread about again?

[ExAreSix]

Try to remember you are on a Holden forum with majority of Holden supporters and owners unlike your minority self!


The majority of members on this forum are open-minded, intelligent folk who can appreciate a good car for what it is, regardlous of the badge stuck to it.

I'd surmise that you are in fact the minority. I think you'd be much happier with you're un-intelligent one eye-d outlook on motoring by visiting the street commodore's forum instead of this one.

You'd fit right in over there, and you can Ford bash to your heart's content, without anyone debating what you're saying.


Have you seen THIS (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=143014) poll yet? I warn you, it will make you cranky. But fear not, you won't find anything of that sort over on street commodores. It'll be all beer and skittles for you over there.

[Spoolin]

FFS, I want to read about people comparing cars not children throwing idiotic comments around! Who cares who has been here longer, there is always going to be someone who has been around longer, should that be the deciding factor in someones knowledge?

Surely admin should clean this BS up:soap:

[Martin_D]

Dumbrells new supercharged Boss worked well at Sandown yesterday. Got him his first win...so there might be something in these motors. Whincups LS3 could not keep up :eek:

[mrtockley]

BTW mrtockley you forgot to answer this!

The article you linked to is wrong. Official figures are 17 / 26 for the Mustang and 16 / 24 for the Camaro. Pushrod engines are good, cheap and produce good power, but if they were so good everyone would still be using them not just GM. :teach:

[bouka]

Dumbrells new supercharged Boss worked well at Sandown yesterday. Got him his first win...so there might be something in these motors. Whincups LS3 could not keep up :eek:

Lol. Are you bored Marin?

That should stimulate another 15 odd pages of mindless and meaningless comments.

What you found in the tune (as per previous discussion) and have you had a play with the Miami yet?

[mrtockley]

Says the guy with the username mrtockley:rofl:
Now the vx is ugly as well, isn't it strange how they've both been a sales success:confused:

Sales success has nothing to do with the car being ugly. It (the VX) was in competition with the AU and it was a better car so it sold more. I wouldn't say the E2 was a sales success though or else they wouldn't have released the E3 so quickly after the E2..

[Deco28]

Sales success has nothing to do with the car being ugly. It (the VX) was in competition with the AU and it was a better car so it sold more. I wouldn't say the E2 was a sales success though or else they wouldn't have released the E3 so quickly after the E2..

Why would you not update your car as the Commodore is updated? Made sense to me.

IDM if we have E6 by end of next year if it keeps meaning that HSV is updating the car.

[steve_t]

Dumbrells new supercharged Boss worked well at Sandown yesterday. Got him his first win...so there might be something in these motors. Whincups LS3 could not keep up :eek:


Lol. Are you bored Marin?

That should stimulate another 15 odd pages of mindless and meaningless comments.

What you found in the tune (as per previous discussion) and have you had a play with the Miami yet?

:rofl::rofl: Actually, I found Martin's comment to be frickin hilarious but I love irony :smilesandbanana:

[Kuzman89]

The article you linked to is wrong. Official figures are 17 / 26 for the Mustang and 16 / 24 for the Camaro. Pushrod engines are good, cheap and produce good power, but if they were so good everyone would still be using them not just GM. :teach:

Funny how the pushrod ZR1 flogs the socks off cars 4 times it's price.

YouTube - ZR1 Drag Race King - Spanks GTR, 599, and GT2

Ferrari, porsche and nissan should go back to making pushrod motors :rofl:

[oranpark_addict]

This thread is a joke and somewhat irrelevant to anything and everything associasted with the thread title. Some of the BS. And trolling. :rofl::rofl:
But I'm deflated and sad at this beacuase it looks like something that would happen on ToyBoyrace forums.com. No just NO please stop.:closed:

[Plenty]

the ZR1 is a pretty impressive car even for something with a live rear end!

[bouka]

:rofl::rofl: Actually, I found Martin's comment to be frickin hilarious but I love irony :smilesandbanana:

Irony? Really!

Anyway, everyone knows that the Ford V8 supercars aren't running the Supercharged motor. They are still using the old 5.4 and will be using the supercharged motor next year.

The Holden V8 supercars don't use the LS3 either, they use the L98 as they are Holden based and not HSV.

So there!

[steve_t]

Irony? Really!

Anyway, everyone knows that the Ford V8 supercars aren't running the Supercharged motor. They are still using the old 5.4 and will be using the supercharged motor next year.

The Holden V8 supercars don't use the LS3 either, they use the L98 as they are Holden based and not HSV.

So there!

Yes, the irony lies in that the V8SC don't use engines, gearboxes etc that in any way relate to what's in the cars available to consumers. I didn't know the Holden cars were L98 based nor the Fords 5.4L based. I was under the impression that all cars ran 5.0 litre V8's. My apologies if I've been misinformed

[vessloveit]

Irony? Really!

Anyway, everyone knows that the Ford V8 supercars aren't running the Supercharged motor. They are still using the old 5.4 and will be using the supercharged motor next year.

The Holden V8 supercars don't use the LS3 either, they use the L98 as they are Holden based and not HSV.

So there!

Bouka I think you are sadly mistaken here.

[oranpark_addict]

Yes, the irony lies in that the V8SC don't use engines, gearboxes etc that in any way relate to what's in the cars available to consumers. I didn't know the Holden cars were L98 based nor the Fords 5.4L based. I was under the impression that all cars ran 5.0 litre V8's. My apologies if I've been misinformed

You got trolled! Bloody Bouka..

[Kuzman89]

the ZR1 is a pretty impressive car even for something with a live rear end!

Gets a pretty decent track time at the nuremberg too. GM's first and only test was 7.27 with another (non GM) test of 7.22.

Nothing wrong with pushrods!!

[Kuzman89]

Bouka I think you are sadly mistaken here.

I think he's having a laugh guys.

:lmao:

[sjhugh]

Irony? Really!

Anyway, everyone knows that the Ford V8 supercars aren't running the Supercharged motor. They are still using the old 5.4 and will be using the supercharged motor next year.

The Holden V8 supercars don't use the LS3 either, they use the L98 as they are Holden based and not HSV.

So there!

Are you sure it’s the L98?

I would have thought the L76 behind an A6 would have been a better bet for less fuel stops and everyone knows you only need 4 cylinders to cruise the pits.

[steve_t]

You got trolled! Bloody Bouka..

Hmmm... yes. It appears I have :rofl::rofl:

[bouka]

Are you sure it’s the L98?

I would have thought the L76 behind an A6 would have been a better bet for less fuel stops and everyone knows you only need 4 cylinders to cruise the pits.

My mates dads neighbour said they looked at it during 09/10 testing but they decided it was a no go.

Lifter problems apparently.

[sjhugh]

My mates dads neighbour said they looked at it during 09/10 testing but they decided it was a no go.

Lifter problems apparently.

Well he’d know.

[Plenty]

Gets a pretty decent track time at the nuremberg too. GM's first and only test was 7.27 with another (non GM) test of 7.22.

Nothing wrong with pushrods!!

The CTS-V with the LSA does a great job as well, GM has the proven arsenal there to throw at the Miami. Hopefully HSV respond with something somewhat competitive in the engine stakes.

[vzss05]

Yes, the irony lies in that the V8SC don't use engines, gearboxes etc that in any way relate to what's in the cars available to consumers. I didn't know the Holden cars were L98 based nor the Fords 5.4L based. I was under the impression that all cars ran 5.0 litre V8's. My apologies if I've been misinformed

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Always read the small print :goodjob:

[bouka]

The CTS-V with the LSA does a great job as well, GM has the proven arsenal there to throw at the Miami. Hopefully HSV respond with something somewhat competitive in the engine stakes.

And they will. Don't expect anything before VF though and the LS3 has hit a ceiling from a power output, development point of view.

I personally hope the exterior design of the HSV's take a dramatic turn. From what I hear the VF Holden is a thing of beauty. Here's hoping HSV don't fark it like they did with the E2/E3.

The Miami's big brother may not see the light of day either.

[Plenty]

And they will. Don't expect anything before VF though and the LS3 has hit a ceiling from a power output, development point of view.

I personally hope the exterior design of the HSV's take a dramatic turn. From what I hear the VF Holden is a thing of beauty. Here's hoping HSV don't fark it like they did with the E2/E3.

The Miami's big brother may not see the light of day either.

I'm not a fan of the E2 or E3 either although they have grown on me. HSV go too far with the styling FPV don't go far enough. Maybe they need to get together and make a car.....:deal: where do i sign up? :hide:

[bouka]

I'm not a fan of the E2 or E3 either although they have grown on me. HSV go too far with the styling FPV don't go far enough. Maybe they need to get together and make a car.....:deal: where do i sign up? :hide:

I have said the same before. HSV E3 interior, Miami motor and ZF auto and styling somewhere in between the FPV and HSV.

And a driveline that can cope.

[Uwish]

Please...where did you hear that BS about the intercooled Miami not coming out??
Also has anyone got anything that isn't hearsay about the VF?

[macca_779]

Please...where did you hear that BS about the intercooled Miami not coming out??
Also has anyone got anything that isn't hearsay about the VF?

I've actually heard the same thing but the source isn't exactly reliable (FPV Dealer) hence I still live in hope.

[bouka]

Please...where did you hear that BS about the intercooled Miami not coming out??
Also has anyone got anything that isn't hearsay about the VF?

My mates dads neighbour.

[Uwish]

I thought it was his mums cousin!

[bouka]

I've actually heard the same thing but the source isn't exactly reliable (FPV Dealer) hence I still live in hope.

He may be onto something.

[Martin_D]

Gets a pretty decent track time at the nuremberg too.

All the real bad guys got a decent amount of time to tell their story at Nuremberg in 1945/46. Not sure what its got to do with Corvette though... :eek:
Maybe Franklin D Roosevelt drove the ZR1 at the Nurburgring? :lol:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

:confused::confused:

[4VMan]

The CTS-V with the LSA does a great job as well, GM has the proven arsenal there to throw at the Miami. Hopefully HSV respond with something somewhat competitive in the engine stakes.

2012 is when a new engine is likely for HSV, the 5.3L thing i believe?

[SM1DY]

2012 is when a new engine is likely for HSV, the 5.3L thing i believe?
No, your out of your mind!!! Haven't you heard there's no replacement for displacement.

[4VMan]

No, your out of your mind!!! Haven't you heard there's no replacement for displacement.

"Package" is going to be a popular word for a long time at HSV i think.

But seriously, im told the 5.3l direct inj engine will be a good bit of kit.
If GM offer a blown version even better, unfortunately HSV have no engine development program so they're at the mercy of GM's part book.

[mustanger]

"Package" is going to be a popular word for a long time at HSV i think.

But seriously, im told the 5.3l direct inj engine will be a good bit of kit.
If GM offer a blown version even better, unfortunately HSV have no engine development program so they're at the mercy of GM's part book.

GM has a few engines at it`s disposal . I just hope they they pick the RIGHT one to put in their new HSV`s......

[4VMan]

GM has a few engines at it`s disposal . I just hope they they pick the RIGHT one to put in their new HSV`s......

That might be hypothetically the case, but nothing in their current range will be used by HSV...

Im told they're looking at future engines with the latest technology for longevity not something that will be obsolete in a year or 2.

[4VMan]

Anyway why would HSV bother responding to the S/C 5.0 GT?

I didnt think they saw FPV as a competitor? They've certainly said as much.

[saleen1]

No, your out of your mind!!! Haven't you heard there's no replacement for displacement.

Hahaha, the willy length competitors won't like that.

[Kuzman89]

All the real bad guys got a decent amount of time to tell their story at Nuremberg in 1945/46. Not sure what its got to do with Corvette though... :eek:
Maybe Franklin D Roosevelt drove the ZR1 at the Nurburgring? :lol:

haha got me!! What I get for working on a sunday!! Cracked me up though haha.

Cheers

[mrtockley]

2012 is when a new engine is likely for HSV, the 5.3L thing i believe?

Yeah, smaller displacement, lots of tech and no push rods.. What will the die-hards say?

[Deco28]

Yeah, smaller displacement, lots of tech and no push rods.. What will the die-hards say?

No push rods? You've obviously missed the memo on GenV. Go visit GMinsidenews, pushrods still very much on the agenda apparently. Just some nifty new cam in cam technology and the like.

[SM1DY]

Hahaha, the willy length competitors won't like that.

That's ok, they can all switch to Dodge with there 6.4L Hemi

[mrtockley]

No push rods? You've obviously missed the memo on GenV. Go visit GMinsidenews, pushrods still very much on the agenda apparently. Just some nifty new cam in cam technology and the like.

Oops my bad. I mis-read a report on it and just checked again. It said it will have some sort of new tech that will allow cam phasing "like a dual overhead cam V8" but yeah still going to retain pushrods.

[Deco28]

Oops my bad. I mis-read a report on it and just checked again. It said it will have some sort of new tech that will allow cam phasing "like a dual overhead cam V8" but yeah still going to retain pushrods.

Yes. It is shaping up to be an exciting engine.

I'd say it'll be constructed to allow HCCI intergration later on as well.

[EfiJy]

Yeah, smaller displacement, lots of tech and no push rods.. What will the die-hards say?

WTF are you normal? You drive a pushrod engined vehicle according to your ride definition. Does your anti pushrod agenda reflect your beliefs? Do you hate the car you drive? Do you hate this forum? You are seriously one confused dude.

[Plenty]

"Package" is going to be a popular word for a long time at HSV i think.

But seriously, im told the 5.3l direct inj engine will be a good bit of kit.
If GM offer a blown version even better, unfortunately HSV have no engine development program so they're at the mercy of GM's part book.

Thats the thing they have the parts just sort of blocked out by price, but surely with bulk purchase it could be made cost effective to use LSA or similar!

[FOON]

It's all good to say just drop in the LSA, problem will lie in engineering the car for warranty for the LSA's power and torque. HSV have already done some development in this area with the W427 but they also showed it doesn't come without it's price. I don't think HSV would be able to keep the GTS under $100k with this.

[Pickles]

It's all good to say just drop in the LSA, problem will lie in engineering the car for warranty for the LSA's power and torque. HSV have already done some development in this area with the W427 but they also showed it doesn't come without it's price. I don't think HSV would be able to keep the GTS under $100k with this.
Fair comment. However, when you look at FPV spending $40M on Miami, & still managing to keep prices down, it may be that HSV will have to sharpen its pencil.
But geez, 426kw or whatever in a mainstream HSV.....I just can't see that.
Cheers, Pickles.

[4VMan]

Fair comment. However, when you look at FPV spending $40M on Miami, & still managing to keep prices down, it may be that HSV will have to sharpen its pencil.
But geez, 426kw or whatever in a mainstream HSV.....I just can't see that.
Cheers, Pickles.

You wont see 426KW is a HSV, where do they go from there in the future? Who's going to engineer the car to handle it?

HSV are looking long term like FPV did with Miami, the next engine we'll see there is the Gen V, not an adaption of the current platform which is on its way out......

[JRY 88]

Fair comment. However, when you look at FPV spending $40M on Miami, & still managing to keep prices down, it may be that HSV will have to sharpen its pencil.
But geez, 426kw or whatever in a mainstream HSV.....I just can't see that.
Cheers, Pickles.

Maybe they'll do what ford has done. De-tune the shit out of the engine for the first release so they can just keep upping the power without the cost of redesigning bits and pieces.

[V-Car]

Fair comment. However, when you look at FPV spending $40M on Miami, & still managing to keep prices down, it may be that HSV will have to sharpen its pencil.

Spot on Pickes, a very sharp pencil.
When they wanted 150k for a car with an engine that probably didnt cost (to them) more than FPV spends on its hand built SC Miami, then the numbers just dont add up....except maybe to a very thrifty Scot named Tom Walkinshaw.

He must be laughing all the way to the bank at all the dumb aussies he can con.

Onya Ford and FPV for bringing a bit of reality to pricing. :bow:

[mrtockley]

WTF are you normal? You drive a pushrod engined vehicle according to your ride definition. Does your anti pushrod agenda reflect your beliefs? Do you hate the car you drive? Do you hate this forum? You are seriously one confused dude.

Which question do you want me to answer? Yes I think I'm pretty normal. I know I bought a pushrod engine but I don't like how GM are holding onto the pushrod design for their brand new engine. I bought the SSV because at the time, it had the better engine over what Ford was offering. Now that the GS has been released for a similar price point (maybe even cheaper) it's a different story. I'll be going back to Ford as soon as it's viable and I don't think I'll be the only one changing camps.

[FOON]

Maybe they'll do what ford has done. De-tune the shit out of the engine for the first release so they can just keep upping the power without the cost of redesigning bits and pieces.

But you have to take into account that it is an already ageing engine family and will it pass all the future incarnations of euro compliance?

[plonkerchops]

Maybe they'll do what ford has done. De-tune the shit out of the engine for the first release so they can just keep upping the power without the cost of redesigning bits and pieces.

just like what Holden have done with the LS1 since its inception...?

[macca_779]

But you have to take into account that it is an already ageing engine family and will it pass all the future incarnations of euro compliance?

Its a lot newer than some engine family's out there that still pass.
IMO GM doesn't need OHC, sure it wouldn't hurt but they've proven time and time again they can maintain valve train stability just fine with pushrods. What they could use though is multi valve heads with some variable timing and lift technology. Even looking at fuel economy. The 5.0L is slightly better than the LS3. But with a 1.2L deficit, that's pretty good going.

[overkillgts]

Who cares? It still wins. Which HSV owner is going to take their $80 odd thousand dollar GTS to a track where they're not covered by insurance OR HSV's warranty ? ?

Whats wrong with taking a hsv to the drags

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Whats wrong with taking a hsv to the drags

I don't think he was saying there is anything wrong with it, more that many purchasers of NEW HSVs don't go to the dragstrip. Each time I have been to WSID on a Wednesday, you will mostly see pre VE Commodores. Same goes for FPV, BMW, Merc etc. Very few there in comparison.

[FOON]

No doubt the LS series engines (Gen series) are a great engine as I have experienced through my mates that all have modified versions, am curious to know whether they would pass though or whether that would command a few dollars in development costs for this which would lead to its future in Oz. I think the 4L I6 currently running in the Fords would be running out of time in that regards even after the $$$$ put into it by Ford, not sure on that one.

[tmob]

i took my E2 clubsport to the drags on Saturday.... was a great drive up, and the drive home was pretty good too. only downfall of the day was having to park 4500 miles from the entrance. I guess thems the brakes of being a spectator at the doorslammers....

[mrtockley]

Whats wrong with taking a hsv to the drags

Nothing at all wrong with taking any car to the drags or a racetrack. I just found it a little confusing that HSV have gone to the effort of putting maps for different racetracks around Australia into the interface of the new EDI and having features like lap timers etc, while not covering warranty for any damage incurred on said race track. Almost as silly as Nissan initially offering the GTR with launch control but knocking back warranty claims for busted gear boxes.. Launch control and other options for going quick in a straight line, yeah maybe, but trying to sell EITHER HSV or FPV as a track focused package is silly. 1800 - 2000 kilos just doesn't go around corners all that quickly, and while they might be able to pull off 1 or 2 quick hot laps for the journos to crank over, they're not track cars and things would start breaking very quickly after 5 - 10 hard laps.

[overkillgts]

Why is every one so caught up with fuel economy in cars these days? I think if ya want power it's going to cost ya at the bowser

[steve_t]

It really makes you appreciate the quality and kinda justifies the cost of the euro performance cars that invite you to track days when you buy them new

[ratter]

You get a day at the track when purchasing a FPV, it is through John Bowe drive school and is normally attended to be a race driver or 2 who are willing to put the cars through their paces.

[Pickles]

I've heard most of these new FPVs are sold.
So, any interested buyers may be interested to know that Wignall Ford have a new GT on the floor for sale.....saw it when we looked at our Focus RS220.
Cheers, Pickles.

[macca_779]

I've heard most of these new FPVs are sold.
So, any interested buyers may be interested to know that Wignall Ford have a new GT on the floor for sale.....saw it when we looked at our Focus RS220.
Cheers, Pickles.

I've heard the same, but I don't think the Demo cars they have are for immediate sale. When I was test driving one the dealer told me that all FPV dealers had been briefed to "Get Bums In Seats for test drives" That would be a bit hard if they didn't have anything on display. Its actually quite refreshing as HSV dealers tend to try and talk price before even driving one, pending who you are of course.

[185iboy]

I've heard the same, but I don't think the Demo cars they have are for immediate sale. When I was test driving one the dealer told me that all FPV dealers had been briefed to "Get Bums In Seats for test drives" That would be a bit hard if they didn't have anything on display. Its actually quite refreshing as HSV dealers tend to try and talk price before even driving one, pending who you are of course.

I went to 3 Holden dealers without being able to test drive a SSV unless I signed papers (which I could 'rip up') after the test drive or settle on a price and commit to the car :rofl: Lost interest after that and fell in love with my better equipped (IMO) FG :goodjob:

[ATOMICSS]

I don't think he was saying there is anything wrong with it, more that many purchasers of NEW HSVs don't go to the dragstrip. Each time I have been to WSID on a Wednesday, you will mostly see pre VE Commodores. Same goes for FPV, BMW, Merc etc. Very few there in comparison.

Gees, must be different from Perth Motorplex. There are brand new HSV's FPVs, AMG Mercs, Lexus, SRT Mopars, you name it down there. In fairly large quantities too.

[mrtockley]

You get a day at the track when purchasing a FPV, it is through John Bowe drive school and is normally attended to be a race driver or 2 who are willing to put the cars through their paces.

That's an advanced drivers course more for familiarizing new owners with their cars. It would be under controlled conditions and being hosted by FPV I'm sure they'd be quick to knock any warranty issued on the head arising from doing anything other than instructed.

[Plenty]

Spot on Pickes, a very sharp pencil.
When they wanted 150k for a car with an engine that probably didnt cost (to them) more than FPV spends on its hand built SC Miami, then the numbers just dont add up....except maybe to a very thrifty Scot named Tom Walkinshaw.

He must be laughing all the way to the bank at all the dumb aussies he can con.

Onya Ford and FPV for bringing a bit of reality to pricing. :bow:

If you really think about it, the spread of cost over 200 cars really justifies the price, whereas if it was in a mainstream car like say the GTS it would be more cost effective as it's spread over a larger quota of vehicles.

[V-Car]

If you really think about it, the spread of cost over 200 cars really justifies the price, whereas if it was in a mainstream car like say the GTS it would be more cost effective as it's spread over a larger quota of vehicles.

Then why didnt HSV put the LS7 in a GTS and sell it for $80k like FPV do with their engines?
A Harrop engineered SC Miami engine would cost every bit as much, if not more, than an imported crate LS7 that was out of date by the time HSV got hold of it.
Where is the LS9, let alone LSA?
But why should HSV care, FPV are no competition to them. :rofl:

[Kuzman89]

Then why didnt HSV put the LS7 in a GTS and sell it for $80k like FPV do with their engines?
A Harrop engineered SC Miami engine would cost every bit as much, if not more, than an imported crate LS7 that was out of date by the time HSV got hold of it.
Where is the LS9, let alone LSA?
But why should HSV care, FPV are no competition to them. :rofl:

Because they haven't had too? The engine has only just came out in 200 or so cars, you expect HSV to engineer and start producing LS7/LSA etc equiped GTS's in that time? Get real.

The "FPV is not a competitor" comment was quite awhile ago, before the release of the 5.0SC. And sadly FPV wasn't really a competitor until now.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Because they haven't had too? The engine has only just came out in 200 or so cars, you expect HSV to engineer and start producing LS7/LSA etc equiped GTS's in that time? Get real.

The "FPV is not a competitor" comment was quite awhile ago, before the release of the 5.0SC. And sadly FPV wasn't really a competitor until now.

FPV GT maybe, F6 different story.

Holden will have known for some time FPV had this 5.0 SC engine coming. There would be no doubt that they have something planned which needs to at least equal the torque and power of the FPV, with HEAPS of headroom to turn up the badge number without too much engineering.

[Kuzman89]

FPV GT maybe, F6 different story.

Holden will have known for some time FPV had this 5.0 SC engine coming. There would be no doubt that they have something planned which needs to at least equal the torque and power of the FPV, with HEAPS of headroom to turn up the badge number without too much engineering.

The F6 is a great car, but didn't really snatch that many HSV sales. People want a V8 regardless. I'd honestly rather a BOSS GT over the F6.

And agreed on the rest of ur points. Early days. In my opinion won't be an engine update for at least another year.

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

It will be very interesting to see what engine Holden use in the next HSV. To match the torque of a supercharged engine in NA form will need a lot of cubes, with the way manufacturers are going in reducing engine sizes it would be odd if they went to 7 litres for example.

With FPV putting a blower on their 6 and 8, they really have left HSV no choice but to go blown as well. As seen by the tuners with a GS with only 6 pound of boost, the Miami is making 355rwkw with less than an hour of tuning. My point being that Ford can at anytime turn up the boost or just refine the tune to get the numbers to beat a HSV in their 6 or 8, especially given both of them now have forged bottom ends.

Interesting days to come for sure! Remember when 185kw was exciting.....

[V-Car]

Because they haven't had too? The engine has only just came out in 200 or so cars, you expect HSV to engineer and start producing LS7/LSA etc equiped GTS's in that time? Get real.


No time?
The LS7 was around in 2006 and LS9/LSA since late 2008, if HSV chose not to utilise them earlier (they were testing SC's a few years ago, but didnt do anything further) when it was common knowledge what FPV were doing, then they can only blame themselves for being caught with their daks down.
All of those engines were around long before Coyote, let alone SC Miami.
My original point stands. They had planty of warning, and if FPV can do a SC Miami then why cant HSV do a SC LSA for the same price?

[Kuzman89]

No time?
The LS7 was around in 2006 and LS9/LSA since late 2008, if HSV chose not to utilise them earlier (they were testing SC's a few years ago, but didnt do anything further) when it was common knowledge what FPV were doing, then they can only blame themselves for being caught with their daks down.
All of those engines were around long before Coyote, let alone SC Miami.
My original point stands. They had planty of warning, and if FPV can do a SC Miami then why cant HSV do a SC LSA for the same price?

Not saying they can't. But too expect HSV to keep their cars upto date with FPV all the time everytime is stretching it. Doesn't make business sense. When a compeitor releases a new product u dont jump ya guns, spend all ur profits and release one that betters it in all ways. You wait to see the effect it has on the market, customer reactions etc.

The W427 is a 2008 car, couldn't see them doing the GTS with a 7.0l right after they sold the car sorry.

HSV has a strong/loyal customer base, they will most likely continue to sell more then FPV into next year despite the power disadvantage. Doubt they will have to do ANYTHING till GenV arrives.

[Pickles]

Not saying they can't. But too expect HSV to keep their cars upto date with FPV all the time everytime is stretching it. Doesn't make business sense. When a compeitor releases a new product u dont jump ya guns, spend all ur profits and release one that betters it in all ways. You wait to see the effect it has on the market, customer reactions etc.

The W427 is a 2008 car, couldn't see them doing the GTS with a 7.0l right after they sold the car sorry.

HSV has a strong/loyal customer base, they will most likely continue to sell more then FPV into next year despite the power disadvantage. Doubt they will have to do ANYTHING till GenV arrives.
I agree....You are spot on....HSV ain't gonna have the LS3 forever, same as they didn't have LS1/2 forever ....engines come & go, always have always will. So, for sure whilst the LS3 has been, & is, a ripper engine, it will eventually be replaced, definitely, when HSV think they have the right combination to, as they say these days, move forward.
Actually, I would say, quite confidently, that HSV know now, exactly what their future power plant will be....in the meantime, the speculation is sure getting some people fired up. Me, I'll just wait & see....as per your first para.
Cheers, Pickles.

[mrtockley]

I agree....You are spot on....HSV ain't gonna have the LS3 forever, same as they didn't have LS1/2 forever ....engines come & go, always have always will. So, for sure whilst the LS3 has been, & is, a ripper engine, it will eventually be replaced, definitely, when HSV think they have the right combination to, as they say these days, move forward.
Actually, I would say, quite confidently, that HSV know now, exactly what their future power plant will be....in the meantime, the speculation is sure getting some people fired up. Me, I'll just wait & see....as per your first para.
Cheers, Pickles.

Well unless GM has another magic trick up their sleeve, the Gen V apparently won't be released until 2012 - 2013. That's a long time for HSV to have no power increase..

[bouka]

I dont know of any company that would willingly allow a competitor to gain an edge (but then FPV is NOT a competitor are they!). To suggest otherwise is just plain silly.

HSV don't have a response at the moment (mechanically) and that is why they are using the old "total package" line.

They won't have a response (in my opinion) until 2012/13 and it will be what GM has in the parts bin and not a specifically developed motor (it would be nice though).

The LS3 is a brilliant motor and i have enjoyed every minute of mine. The Gen V will also be great. But let's not kid ourselves about an LSA or LS9 magically appearing in the next little bit.

I would love to see HSV go down the same path as FPV/Prodrive and do their own thing. I am sure many in the HSV camp would love to the same.

The Miami is the best thing to happen to the local performance market for as long as i can remember. For many reasons. Like or loath the blue side, what they have achieved is worthy of praise.

[4VMan]

I dont know of any company that would willingly allow a competitor to gain an edge (but then FPV is NOT a competitor are they!). To suggest otherwise is just plain silly.

HSV don't have a response at the moment (mechanically) and that is why they are using the old "total package" line.

They won't have a response (in my opinion) until 2012/13 and it will be what GM has in the parts bin and not a specifically developed motor (it would be nice though).

The LS3 is a brilliant motor and i have enjoyed every minute of mine. The Gen V will also be great. But let's not kid ourselves about an LSA or LS9 magically appearing in the next little bit.

I would love to see HSV go down the same path as FPV/Prodrive and do their own thing. I am sure many in the HSV camp would love to the same.

The Miami is the best thing to happen to the local performance market for as long as i can remember. For many reasons. Like or loath the blue side, what they have achieved is worthy of praise.

Very accurate IMO and very well said.

Im not expecting any underbonnet change at HSV till Gen V in 12/13.
Who knows if GM will give them an economically viable S/C version though.. im sure HSV will be hoping they do.

Despite the performance defecit now though HSV will continue to sell pretty well because of brand loyalty.

Afterall.. FPV arent competitors... LOL

[EfiJy]

So the FPV 'Miami' motor is purely Australian, hey?

Then how true is it that the engine components are mainly sourced from Tata Motors in India while the supercharger is Harrop (Aussie)?

It's no wonder FPV can afford to sell the engine dirt cheap (if what I'm hearing is true).

Shame on HSV for not importing in their engines from India.

[4VMan]

So the FPV 'Miami' motor is purely Australian, hey?

Then how true is it that the engine components are mainly sourced from Tata Motors in India while the supercharger is Harrop (Aussie)?

It's no wonder FPV can afford to sell the engine dirt cheap (if what I'm hearing is true).

Shame on HSV for not importing in their engines from India.
About 45% of Miami components are australian made, the main engine parts like block and heads are imported.
Miami is totally assembled here though.

[EfiJy]

About 45% of Miami components are australian made, the main engine parts like block and heads are imported.
Miami is totally assembled here though.

Sounds mildly tongue in cheek.

So could you itemise the components for us? Where are the parts manufactured exactly?

[4VMan]

Sounds mildly tongue in cheek.

So could you itemise the components for us? Where are the parts manufactured exactly?
Why? you dont believe it? Straight from a FPV engineers mouth.. 45% local manufacture, 100% local assembly...

[EfiJy]

Why? you dont believe it? Straight from a FPV engineers mouth.. 45% local manufacture, 100% local assembly...

No, I want to know where the engine components are made. I'm not questioning the percentages attributed to local content.

To me, it is an important consideration. I wouldn't want my V8 made in China. India is one country away from China. It is off putting. But that's just my view.

[mrtockley]

Sounds mildly tongue in cheek.

So could you itemise the components for us? Where are the parts manufactured exactly?

Who gives a shit where the components are from? The simple fact is, the Miami is an Australian engine. My L98 is assembled in Mexico, does that mean it's not an American engine?

[4VMan]

No, I want to know where the engine components are made. I'm not questioning the percentages attributed to local content.

To me, it is an important consideration. I wouldn't want my V8 made in China. India is one country away from China. It is off putting. But that's just my view.
Ring FPV.... Im just sharing some inside info with you.

Miami is something we all should be proud of, how much of the LS3 was designed/maunfactured/assembled here???

[EfiJy]

Then why didnt HSV put the LS7 in a GTS and sell it for $80k like FPV do with their engines?
A Harrop engineered SC Miami engine would cost every bit as much, if not more, than an imported crate LS7 that was out of date by the time HSV got hold of it.
Where is the LS9, let alone LSA?
But why should HSV care, FPV are no competition to them. :rofl:

I think we're starting to get a clearer picture now.

Would you pay $80 grand for a supercharged V8 with most of the engine components coming from a developing country?

FPV V8 "Made in India" + Harrop blower = economically viable V8

[Wonky]

Why? you dont believe it? Straight from a FPV engineers mouth.. 45% local manufacture, 100% local assembly...

Why not call it something Australian like the Ettamogah or something, not an American name like Miami. (I'm joking of course! :jester:)

[4VMan]

I think we're starting to get a clearer picture now.

Would you pay $80 grand for a supercharged V8 with most of the engine components coming from a developing country?

FPV V8 "Made in India" + Harrop blower = economically viable V8

Again for the slow... 45% Australian, 55% US, 100% Australian assembled.....

[4VMan]

Why not call it something Australian like the Ettamogah or something, not an American name like Miami. (I'm joking of course! :jester:)

LOL, give it a few months and you guys will be calling it Bejesus!!

[bouka]

I think we're starting to get a clearer picture now.

Would you pay $80 grand for a supercharged V8 with most of the engine components coming from a developing country?

FPV V8 "Made in India" + Harrop blower = economically viable V8

This surely is tongue in cheek.

You cannot be seriously trying to get traction with this.

[sjhugh]

GM Inaugurates Flexi-Engine Plant in Talegaon, India - 15th November, 2010

http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/transportation-equipment-mfg/15291742-1.html

You may have to get use to Indian donks, this is the future of GM engines to help keep them competitive.

[mrtockley]

This surely is tongue in cheek.

You cannot be seriously trying to get traction with this.

Apparently it's not ok to source parts from India but ok to have his LS3 assembled in Mexico .. :confused:

[4VMan]

Apparently it's not ok to source parts from India but ok to have his LS3 assembled in Mexico .. :confused:

... With parts from India!! Lol

[mrtockley]

... With parts from India!! Lol

Hehe would you like some sauce to go with that foot in your mouth Efijy ?? :goodjob:

[sjhugh]

GM Inaugurates Flexi-Engine Plant in Talegaon, India
Publication: LexisNexis
Date: Monday, November 15 2010



Talegaon, India - General Motors today inaugurated its new flexi-engine facility in Talegaon, GM's first powertrain plant that enables petroleum and diesel engines to be manufactured simultaneously. The state-of-the-art facility represents investment of $ 230 million. It has an initial annual production capacity of 160,000 engines and is designed to accommodate future expansion. The new engine plant will begin by producing engines for small passenger cars manufactured by GM in India.

'This marks the beginning of GM's next chapter in India.' GM India President and Managing Director Karl Slym said. 'The opening of our new facility will enable our company to become more competitive and keep up with the growing demand for our vehicles. GM India's sales have grown significantly since we began rolling out our mini-cars, the Chevrolet Spark and Beat, at our Talegaon plant about two years back.' Slym added, 'We appreciate the support of the Maharashtra government and our employees across the country.

Their backing has enabled us to build a world-class engine facility in record time of less than two years.' On Aug. 28, 2008, GM signed an agreement with the Government of Maharashtra for the construction of a new engine plant adjacent to its vehicle manufacturing facility. Construction started in December 2008, with pilot production commencing in March 2010. The engine plant complements GM's modern vehicle manufacturing facilities in Talegaon and Halol, Gujarat, as well as the GM Technical Centre - India in Bangalore, which is carrying out a range of engineering, design and R&D activities. General Motors India has completed 14 years of operation. It offers a growing range of products under the Chevrolet brand, which was introduced in India in 2003 and has become one of the fastest-growing automotive nameplates in the country.

In addition to the Spark and Beat, GM India also produces the Captiva, Optra, Cruze, Aveo, Aveo U-VA, and Tavera for sale nationwide. GM is the fifth-largest automobile manufacturer in India. In the first 10 months of 2010, GM India sold a record 93,960 vehicles, which represents a 73 percent increase over the same period last year. It has 209 sales points and 205 service outlets in 178 cities across India, and has embarked upon an ambitious rural marketing initiative to further boost sales.

In February 2010, GM and its Chinese partner SAIC opened a joint venture in India for cooperation in vehicle manufacturing and sales. About General Motors - General Motors, one of the world's largest automakers, traces its roots back to 1908. With its global headquarters in Detroit, GM employs 209,000 people in every major region of the world and does business in more than 120 countries.

GM and its strategic partners produce cars and trucks in 31 countries, and sell and service these vehicles through the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, Isuzu, Jiefang, Opel, Vauxhall, and Wuling. GM's largest national market is China, followed by the United States, Brazil, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada, and Russia.

GM's OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. General Motors acquired operations from General Motors Corporation on July 10, 2009, and references to prior periods in this and other press materials refer to operations of the old General Motors Corporation.

More information on the new General Motors can be found at www.gm.com . Edelman for General Motors India Phone +91 98108 19013 +91 98108 19013 / +91 99107 67682 +91 99107 67682 Prerna.korla@edelman.com / Shekhar.daschowdhury@edelman.com [Editorial queries for this story should be sent to newswire@enpublishing.co.uk ]

[EfiJy]

This surely is tongue in cheek.

You cannot be seriously trying to get traction with this.

It's your money bouka. Your choice.

You don't need to convince me. I'm not buying.

Each to their own.

I'm just disappointed because I thought the engine was imported from the US and assembled here. It's disappointing that FPV were making a song and dance about the local assembly when they ignored revealing where most of the components were made.

Obviously "made in India" isn't quite as marketable as "assembled in Australia" because if it was then FPV would have no issues advertising it.

[SM1DY]

It's your money bouka. Your choice.

You don't need to convince me. I'm not buying.

Each to their own.

I'm just disappointed because I thought the engine was imported from the US and assembled here. It's disappointing that FPV were making a song and dance about the local assembly when they ignored revealing where most of the components were made.

Obviously "made in India" isn't quite as marketable as "assembled in Australia" because if it was then FPV would have no issues advertising it.

I've seen some people stick to their guns, but your something else. This is priceless:lmao:

[EfiJy]

GM Inaugurates Flexi-Engine Plant in Talegaon, India
Publication: LexisNexis
Date: Monday, November 15 2010

Point taken. That engine is destined for a cheap Indian car.

But we are talking a "traditional small block V8" here. It doesn't have the same appeal to me knowing it is now made in India or China.

Some cars just aren't common appliances. Image is important, I would have thought.

[Kuzman89]

Why? you dont believe it? Straight from a FPV engineers mouth.. 45% local manufacture, 100% local assembly...

Which engineer? Got a name? Mind supplying us with a link or something? Or is this just a "my brothers uncles toadfish's former owner said"?

[Evman]

The trick to keeping down the cost of Australian made products is to sell them to America first, then buy them back :lol:

[EfiJy]

I've seen some people stick to their guns, but your something else. This is priceless:lmao:

I hope you weren't one of the many who were critical of Holden's many Korean based products because if you were, you could be slightly hypocritical. :)

Be honest now, I was. :)

[bouka]

It's your money bouka. Your choice.

You don't need to convince me. I'm not buying.

Each to their own.

I'm just disappointed because I thought the engine was imported from the US and assembled here. It's disappointing that FPV were making a song and dance about the local assembly when they ignored revealing where most of the components were made.

Obviously "made in India" isn't quite as marketable as "assembled in Australia" because if it was then FPV would have no issues advertising it.

It is not about me, my money or my choice (from a car perspective).

It is about trying to somehow discredit or belittle the engineering efforts of FPV and the significant local input and expertise that went into this motor.

Let's remove color blindness for a moment and look at this from an overall automotive viewpoint.

You don't have to like Ford or FPV. Heck, you don't even have to like the color Blue.

But to try and rubbish their achievements by having a dig at some foreign made components is, I'm sorry to say, childish.

[YMK]

No, I want to know where the engine components are made. I'm not questioning the percentages attributed to local content.

To me, it is an important consideration. I wouldn't want my V8 made in China. India is one country away from China. It is off putting. But that's just my view.

most of your VE was sourced from China, your motor was from Mexico, and afaik the Mexicans make spice but not as good as the Indians - not that that as anything to do with it.

Where did you get your Indian-parts-for-Miami from? Most parts were sourced from the US and here. You have some proof to these claims? Any links?

[EfiJy]

It is not about me, my money or my choice (from a car perspective).

It is about trying to somehow discredit or belittle the engineering efforts of FPV and the significant local input and expertise that went into this motor.

Let's remove color blindness for a moment and look at this from an overall automotive viewpoint.

You don't have to like Ford or FPV. Heck, you don't even have to like the color Blue.

But to try and rubbish their achievements by having a dig at some foreign made components is, I'm sorry to say, childish.

Bouka, you should know by now that HSV have been selling cars based on their image.

How important is image to you? How important is image to BMW, for example. Don't tell me an M3 built in China is exactly as desirable as an M3 built in Germany.

Please tell me you are not serious.

I'm not discrediting FPV as they have done a great job with the engineering. It's just a cheap way of offering a V8 to the Aussie public when the deceptive advertising seemed to suggest the engine was true blue Australian is what I'm disheartened about.

The more this kind of economic rationale happens the less attachment I will have to my car.

[sjhugh]

Point taken. That engine is destined for a cheap Indian car.

But we are talking a "traditional small block V8" here. It doesn't have the same appeal to me knowing it is now made in India or China.

Some cars just aren't common appliances. Image is important, I would have thought.

That’s not the case.

There is a lot more info on this subject than I’ve posted here.

Labour & site costs, existing & future business plans, the fact these engines are for export to be installed in other GM vehicles world wide, the fact GM is already manufacturing many parts including those for engines, transmissions, steering, suspension, brakes, electrical, body & chassis in India for all makes of GM vehicles world wide and that they intend to expand their interest there including the manufacture of many other types of engines.

As I said, it is their future if they wish to stay competitive. Unfortunately it’s no different to many other forms of industry that have moved into India.

[sjhugh]

How important is image to you? How important is image to BMW, for example. Don't tell me an M3 built in China is exactly as desirable as an M3 built in Germany.

Many BMW parts come from India. They were one of the first manufacturers to get into the cost savings there.

[SM1DY]

I hope you weren't one of the many who were critical of Holden's many Korean based products because if you were, you could be slightly hypocritical. :)

Be honest now, I was. :)

Well, you'd think you would have learnt your lesson about critizing products that come from nations lesser than our own. It's a big leap to assume a product that is from a particular region is of a inferior quality because of your own perceptions of a country. Now I know the Commonwealth games were a bit of a shamozzle, but I truly believe that they have got there act together and are churning out some really top notch parts.

Also, I'm not sure where you got this India sourced parts information from and if it even has any real merit to it, but you can't ignore the fact that if FPV put one of these components in an engine it is up to snuff.

[EfiJy]

most of your VE was sourced from China, your motor was from Mexico, and afaik the Mexicans make spice but not as good as the Indians - not that that as anything to do with it.

Where did you get your Indian-parts-for-Miami from? Most parts were sourced from the US and here. You have some proof to these claims? Any links?

Wrong. My LS2 was built in exactly the same place as the LS3 is built, Canada.

My transmission was built in the USA.

Sure some plastics and stuff was made in China/Korea but we're talking the engine here.

I don't know for sure if the parts are Indian manufactured, that's why I'm asking. I just read some comments on another forum. This isn't the only forum with all the goss. ;)

[EfiJy]

Many BMW parts come from India. They were one of the first manufacturers to get into the cost savings there.

Like? Not being a smarty, I'm curious. :)

[YMK]

Wrong. My LS2 was built in exactly the same place as the LS3 is built, Canada.

My transmission was built in the USA.

Sure some plastics and stuff was made in China/Korea but we're talking the engine here.

I don't know for sure if the parts are Indian manufactured, that's why I'm asking. I just read some comments on another forum. This isn't the only forum with all the goss. ;)

VE has highest foreign (Chinese) content than any other car produced in Aus. It feels like it too.

So you're basing your argument off hearsay? No proof? Even if it is written somewhere on the internet how can we be sure it's not someone like you who's making things up? Just asking.

[sjhugh]

Ford has interests in India as well and so do a lot of other car manufacturers. They’re there to bring production costs down, not to make inferior components.

I’m old enough to remember when anything with ‘Made in Japan’ on it was considered rubbish. Today the Japanese think the same of anything that has ‘Made in USA’ on it. For that matter, so do many Yanks.

[sjhugh]

Like? Not being a smarty, I'm curious. :)

I read about BMW a year or so ago. I’d have to troll the internet to find it. Maybe you can do that yourself.

Start by checking out The Global Trade website.



Several Indian and international companies have aggressive plans to expand their production capacities. Recent investments include: Ford $500 million, Ashok Leyland-Nissan $500 million, Nissan-Renault $1 billion, Volkswagen 400 million Euro, Honda $250 million, and Tata Motors $240 million. To support and sustain the anticipated growth in demand, the Government of India (GOI) launched the “Automotive Mission Plan (AMP), 2006-2016.” According to the plan, the GOI has accorded the highest priority for the automobile and components industry sector. The AMP envisions that India emerges as the worldwide destination of choice for the design and manufacture of automobiles and auto components by 2016. The plan also projected the sales revenue of the automotive sector reaching $122-159 billion by 2016 from $34 billion in 2006. The GOI allows 100% foreign investment in the automobile and parts industry. The Indian automotive components industry is riding on a huge opportunity. This mature industry segment manufactures a range of auto components for both domestic and export markets. According to the Automotive Components Association (ACMA), 584 companies in the organized sector manufacture auto components in the country. 564 of them are ISO certified companies, 11 received Deming awards, and 15 received TPM awards.

http://www.globaltrade.net/international-trade-import-exports/f/market-research/text/India/Automobile-Parts-and-Accessories-for-Automobiles-India-Opportunities-in-Automotive-Engine-Components.html

[YMK]

Ford has interests in India as well and so do a lot of other car manufacturers. They’re there to bring production costs down, not to make inferior components.

I’m old enough to remember when anything with ‘Made in Japan’ on it was considered rubbish. Today the Japanese think the same of anything that has ‘Made in USA’ on it. For that matter, so do many Yanks.Very well put, you're spot on. Rep points coming your way.

It's just that he can't even substantiate his claims... but as you rightly put it, so what if it is from there?

[Aus8]

Not sure if this has been posted cbf going through so many pages to find out. http://www.caradvice.com.au/91737/fpv-gt-p-review-video/

Not a bad video sounds great imo.

[ExAreSix]

Bouka, you should know by now that HSV have been selling cars based on their image.

How important is image to you? How important is image to BMW, for example. Don't tell me an M3 built in China is exactly as desirable as an M3 built in Germany.

Please tell me you are not serious.

I'm not discrediting FPV as they have done a great job with the engineering. It's just a cheap way of offering a V8 to the Aussie public when the deceptive advertising seemed to suggest the engine was true blue Australian is what I'm disheartened about.

The more this kind of economic rationale happens the less attachment I will have to my car.

For exemplary demonstration of just how much of a tard you really are, I am hearby promoting you from Clown, to F*cktard. :flipoff:

32 yrs old, going on 5 :jester:


Have some respect for these Aussie engineers who have done a stirling effort of putting this motor together. Trying to rubbish the effort with your bullshit, you're a class act.

[HSE2]

I'm just disappointed because I thought the engine was imported from the US and assembled here. It's disappointing that FPV were making a song and dance about the local assembly when they ignored revealing where most of the components were made.

Obviously "made in India" isn't quite as marketable as "assembled in Australia" because if it was then FPV would have no issues advertising it.

Well I can help you out with your concern. And for whomever it was that was asking for engineers names I can sort that one out as well.

FPV presentation. Guest speakers. Rod Barrett, Paul Cook and Prodrives Bernie Quinn.

Engine promoted as being uniquely Australian and for clarification and comparison to the coyote engine on which it was based broken down.
You can rest easy that what you have been told is incorrect.
As anyone in this industry will tell you, it’s a shrinking world where suppliers are fewer and service the automotive world in general restricted. For high HP applications their suppliers are even more unique.
So when FPV state they are using Mahle pistons what you are effectively saying is that Mahle source their pistons from India.

When FPV state they are using an Eaton roots type blower in a Harrop custom housing your insinuation is that one or both of those components are likely sourced from India. No one is interested in nuts, bolts and washers. Your comments are aimed at the heart of the engine the main components with the use of terms like “most” and “made in India” as dramatic reference material. We’re talking, piston’s rods, cranks, cams, valves, bearings, Supercharger, heads and blocks. There some of the parts that is of interests in a meaningful way for your comments to have anyone iota of credibility.
I find your attempt to discredit the engine offensive and tasteless.

If however you had a good faith basis for saying what you did stick up the parts in question and I will personally find the P.O.O. I just need a part number or identifier and we can put this to bed.

[EfiJy]

Well I can help you out with your concern. And for whomever it was that was asking for engineers names I can sort that one out as well.

FPV presentation. Guest speakers. Rod Barrett, Paul Cook and Prodrives Bernie Quinn.

Engine promoted as being uniquely Australian and for clarification and comparison to the coyote engine on which it was based broken down.
You can rest easy that what you have been told is incorrect.
As anyone in this industry will tell you, it’s a shrinking world where suppliers are fewer and service the automotive world in general restricted. For high HP applications their suppliers are even more unique.
So when FPV state they are using Mahle pistons what you are effectively saying is that Mahle source their pistons from India.

When FPV state they are using an Eaton roots type blower in a Harrop custom housing your insinuation is that one or both of those components are likely sourced from India. No one is interested in nuts, bolts and washers. Your comments are aimed at the heart of the engine the main components with the use of terms like “most” and “made in India” as dramatic reference material. We’re talking, piston’s rods, cranks, cams, valves, bearings, Supercharger, heads and blocks. There some of the parts that is of interests in a meaningful way for your comments to have anyone iota of credibility.
I find your attempt to discredit the engine offensive and tasteless.

If however you had a good faith basis for saying what you did stick up the parts in question and I will personally find the P.O.O. I just need a part number or identifier and we can put this to bed.

Calm down. I'm hearing rumours and I'm asking a basic question becuause people are complaining about the value of HSVs when FPV could be underpricing their cars because they source parts from 2nd world countries. Is this true or is it a fairytale? Please provide some proof in your answer. I'd like to know the answer.

Forget FPV for a minute. If HSV made their cars, engines, transmissions in China, they are no longer "Special" to me. No thanks.

[4VMan]

Calm down. I'm hearing rumours and I'm asking a basic question becuause people are complaining about the value of HSVs when FPV could be underpricing their cars because they source parts from 2nd world countries. Is this true or is it a fairytale? Please provide some proof in your answer. I'd like to know the answer.

Forget FPV for a minute. If HSV made their cars, engines, transmissions in China, they are no longer "Special" to me. No thanks.

Did you read what HSE2 wrote???? how much more proof and clearness would you like? a signed Stat Dec from FPV???

You on the other hand are regurgitating BS fairy-tail rumour as absolute "FACT" when clearly you're WRONG....

If you really want to get into this lets explore foreign V local content of any FPV v HSV...

But perhaps we better not go there, you've been owned enough in the past 24hrs... and it does NOTHING to help supporters of Either brand.

Both companies provide fantastic vehicles... why muck rake when clearly you're in a weaker position than you realise?

[Skedy]

Calm down. I'm hearing rumours and I'm asking a basic question becuause people are complaining about the value of HSVs when FPV could be underpricing their cars because they source parts from 2nd world countries. Is this true or is it a fairytale? Please provide some proof in your answer. I'd like to know the answer.

Forget FPV for a minute. If HSV made their cars, engines, transmissions in China, they are no longer "Special" to me. No thanks.

http://www.fdrx7.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=175&pictureid=2563

thats where i work. Ford Proving ground in lara
and after speaking to an engineer the fact ic that the majority of components are USA sourced if not built here. Im sure some parts come from all over the world

not to mention the commodore and HSV are full of parts from china anyway so maybe yyou should sell your hsv?

[HSE2]

Calm down. I'm hearing rumours and I'm asking a basic question becuause people are complaining about the value of HSVs when FPV could be underpricing their cars because they source parts from 2nd world countries. Is this true or is it a fairytale? Please provide some proof in your answer. I'd like to know the answer.

Forget FPV for a minute. If HSV made their cars, engines, transmissions in China, they are no longer "Special" to me. No thanks.



I can’t give you proof till you give me details and I am one person who can get those for you. An engine is a pretty big jigsaw puzzle you know. It will take ages to find something without knowing where to look.

You’re making the accusation you prove it or back it up. I can tell you if it’s the truth but I need to know what to check first. I am not going to make phone call and send off emails without specifics.

If it’s a just a generalisation then go back to who ever told you this and ask for more information. It’s a bit rude of you to be asking proof of me when you can’t do the same thing to help yourself. I have access to the people and systems to give you your answers. Provided the info is not protected I will have no problem posting it up.

And I am calm. I don’t give a toss where the parts come from as long as they don’t break. I am not a person that creates problems before there is one. The number I heard was 40% Australian content. If it’s a trick then I don’t care. I have nothing against any other country or its people. If it works it works if it breaks they fix it and if it continues to break they find somewhere else. I have no issue if the engine was 1000% from somewhere else. Provided it doesn’t break, its all good.

I am however proud that FPV have been able to use and claim Australian content. It’s good for our supplier industry. I would be very disappointed to learn that its smoke and mirrors so I share you intrigue. Still need those specifics though. Can’t give you proof until you do

[vr5speedv6]

Calm down. I'm hearing rumours and I'm asking a basic question becuause people are complaining about the value of HSVs when FPV could be underpricing their cars because they source parts from 2nd world countries. Is this true or is it a fairytale? Please provide some proof in your answer. I'd like to know the answer.

Forget FPV for a minute. If HSV made their cars, engines, transmissions in China, they are no longer "Special" to me. No thanks.


The coyotes use a chinese made manual trans, so these rumours could be quite plausible.

[Martin_D]

Newflash from the dealer - FPV to release new GT-V model. It has no intercooler so the V is for Vindaloo....very hot good sir :lol:
And never shake a Miami engineers left hand, thats the one they wipe with :eek: