Wheels Jan 2011 maloo V GS v F6 Ute comparo..

[4VMan]

0 - 100

F6 4.92
GS 5.01
Maloo 5.43


400 metres

F6 13.09 @ 178.06
GS 13.19 @ 175.63
Maloo 13.62 @ 172.26

Wow......

[BR05CK]

Isn't it in Motor??

[4VMan]

Isn't it in Motor??

Sorry, my bad, yes Motor.

[EfiJy]

Was there an overall winner to the comparison? :confused:

Auto or manual?

[BR05CK]

Maloo won Both fords were auto while the hsv was manual .

[EfiJy]

Maloo won Both fords were auto while the hsv was manual .

Ta.

So the best car was also the slowest. :goodjob:

I don't know why they bother testing cars with different specs? The auto FPVs would be in their ultimate spec down the quarter. The manual HSV's time would depend more on the quality of driver. Anyways, splitting hairs.

I love the look of the Maloo. It's a tough ute. It would be my pick of the bunch without question as good as the engines in the FPVs are (that's not taking anything away from the awesome FPVs either).

[Deco28]

0 - 100

F6 4.92
GS 5.01
Maloo 5.43


400 metres

F6 13.09 @ 178.06
GS 13.19 @ 175.63
Maloo 13.62 @ 172.26

Wow......

Even though the GT isn't a Ute, I wish they had it there on this day. Reckon it'd been good for a 4.8

[4VMan]

Ta.

So the best car was also the slowest. :goodjob:

I don't know why they bother testing cars with different specs? The auto FPVs would be in their ultimate spec down the quarter. The manual HSV's time would depend more on the quality of driver. Anyways, splitting hairs.

I love the look of the Maloo. It's a tough ute. It would be my pick of the bunch without question as good as the engines in the FPVs are (that's not taking anything away from the awesome FPVs either).

I agree... its got me stuffed why they bother comparing different cars with different trans for starters than proclaiming the slowest car the winner in a performance based test!!!

[701let]

I agree... its got me stuffed why they bother comparing different cars with different trans for starters than proclaiming the slowest car the winner in a performance based test!!!

Lol a diff of 4 tenths over 400m isn't that 'slow' .. But the falcon times are amazing considering the rear end they are putting it down through!

[EfiJy]

Lol a diff of 4 tenths over 400m isn't that 'slow' .. But the falcon times are amazing considering the rear end they are putting it down through!

The solid axle rear end is the best for drag racing (less axle hop is the reason). Having said that, not having any experience with the Ford solid axle, I'm not sure of how it puts its power down. It must be light at the rear end especially with so much torque.

Isn't the F6 still the king of performance?

[4VMan]

The solid axle rear end is the best for drag racing (less axle hop is the reason). Having said that, not having any experience with the Ford solid axle, I'm not sure of how it puts its power down. It must be light at the rear end especially with so much torque.

Isn't the F6 still the king of performance?

As far as utes go yes..

Sedan wise the GT is the new King.

[701let]

The solid axle rear end is the best for drag racing (less axle hop is the reason). Having said that, not having any experience with the Ford solid axle, I'm not sure of how it puts its power down. It must be light at the rear end especially with so much torque.

Isn't the F6 still the king of performance?

That's what I meant.. They feel really light in the rear end when you drive them let alone trying to get one to hook up

[AzuR]

Didnt need motor mag to tell me that, i'd decided this well before i'd purchased my e3 maloo, but must admit it's nice to have motor agree :) also having owned an FG ford ute, the axel tramp is bad, but treated right they get down the 1/4, i managed a 13.6 in stock form zf 6 speed, looking foward to getting the maloo down in stock form in the next few weeks to get a comparison, from what ive felt so far, i should beat that.

[notorious_benny]

I was pretty keen on an F6 ute, but the Maloo overall won me over.

Once its time to make a real decision on which one you want to live with for the next 3 years straightline performance is not the only factor you take into consideration, its still important, but for me at least was not the most important........ an SV6 or XR6 is not going to cut the mustard though of course!! :)

[Wonky]

I know over time there has been some debate over the methods the motoring magazines use to time their run, but I know Bouka took his car down the quarter at Heathcote (Senator A6) exactly as it drove the 150km up there and did a 13.0x or 13.1 bog stock and full weight, spare etc.. Methinks whoever piloted the Maloo couldn't drive it properly. :doh:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

thing that got me was the price diff..omg...its like 25G between GS to the MALOO. Yeah there are some features but hey...25Gis ALOT OF DOE:bawl::confused:

[mrtockley]

thing that got me was the price diff..omg...its like 25G between GS to the MALOO. Yeah there are some features but hey...25Gis ALOT OF DOE:bawl::confused:

Yes I agree. I'd rather have the live rear that you can actually carry something in than a very expensive wheel barrow.

[etrocket]

Going off ford forum, guys are getting mid 12s in the f6. Maloo should be atleast low13s. Either way the f6 wins easily

[DX_]

I doubt you will notice 0.4 seconds down the quarter, particularly seeing as the Maloo was manual and was at a disadvantage from the get go. What you WILL notice everyday is better handling, brakes and ride - that's why I'd go a Maloo any day of the week, but I'd prefer an FPV sedan.

Utes have always been Holden's forte, no surprise the Maloo won.

[ATOMICSS]

Yep on a drag strip with the roll out the Maloo would run very low 13 and the Fords both high 12s. Perhaps HSV should do another batch of the GXP which is a lot lighter, a bit faster, and better comparison price wise, to the cheaper Ford utes.

[sixlta]

I know over time there has been some debate over the methods the motoring magazines use to time their run, but I know Bouka took his car down the quarter at Heathcote (Senator A6) exactly as it drove the 150km up there and did a 13.0x or 13.1 bog stock and full weight, spare etc.. Methinks whoever piloted the Maloo couldn't drive it properly. :doh:


agree, always thought there was some suss time in the mags!

[701let]

thing that got me was the price diff..omg...its like 25G between GS to the MALOO. Yeah there are some features but hey...25Gis ALOT OF DOE:bawl::confused:

If you can afford $50k for a new car then you can afford $65k if you want to... Maloo looks the business...

[troytroy]

The old F6 certainly gets up and boogies. But the Maloo looks special - it looks mean and looks nothing like its donor model. I think anyone looking at $60k worth of ute aint using principally as a workhorse - so the load rating is probably irrellevant at that price bracket. I think the FPV F6 will be better for fuel economy as well.

Either way - I'm not a ute person. But I'd take anyone one of those three as a car! We're certainly lucky to have such a choice. All three have loads of tuning potential too.

[ittwgn]

hi would be interesting if they got a stig and took these three same day ,conditions etc for a hot lap on a racetrack !!!! result????? ps if they were all manual as well tho!!!

[notorious_benny]

Yes I agree. I'd rather have the live rear that you can actually carry something in than a very expensive wheel barrow.

I am pretty sure that both the FPV's and Maloo's have a very similar payload rating. The Maloo might even be slightly higher from memory.

I needed something to tow my boat and the Maloo is a far more fun option than getting a random dual cab ute! :)

Yes its primarily a plaything, but it handles the weight of my boat very well, it only drops the rear end a max of 10mm where as it used to drop my XR6 Turbos rear end about 50mm!!

If I didnt have a boat I would probably have been looking at a 370Z or similar. Cause lets face it, most Maloo's are a great big coupe with plenty of room for esky's full of beer :) :)

[Irish]

I doubt you will notice 0.4 seconds down the quarter, particularly seeing as the Maloo was manual and was at a disadvantage from the get go. What you WILL notice everyday is better handling, brakes and ride - that's why I'd go a Maloo any day of the week, but I'd prefer an FPV sedan.

Utes have always been Holden's forte, no surprise the Maloo won.

0.4 seconds is a fair gap at 172km/h. The other two are pulling away aswell.

[brasher]

I know over time there has been some debate over the methods the motoring magazines use to time their run, but I know Bouka took his car down the quarter at Heathcote (Senator A6) exactly as it drove the 150km up there and did a 13.0x or 13.1 bog stock and full weight, spare etc.. Methinks whoever piloted the Maloo couldn't drive it properly. :doh:

Hey Wonky,

If I may explain, the timing is done using a GPS Performance Meter, this measures 0-400, 0-100 and interval splits from absolute zero km/h. Typically in drag racing you have several feet "rollout" where the car is actually rolling and began moving before the beams have tripped to calculate the ET/MPH. This can equate to several 10th's of seconds difference between the two. The cars are usually tested at WSID, Heathcote, calder etc but the GPS box data is used, most the time the lights/timing equipment is not available. This box also gives out the braking time/distances and incremental speeds that you see in the break out boxes.

As for the skills of the drivers, after working for MOTOR for the last two years, I can attest to the fact that these guys are some of the best steerers I've come accross, infact 2 of our testers are racing in the Sydney round of the v8 supercars today. I'd say they are capable :)

[VYSHSV8]

Racing a V8 super car with sequential box is totally different to using a good old H pattern shifter:):)

[brasher]

The fact is, you don't drive a v8 supercar without having a bit of skill behind the wheel, otherwise you and I would be out there carving it up.

[VYSHSV8]

Agree about the skill bit, but putting a manual down a qtr is totally different some people can shift quickly some can't and never will be able to.

And when taught to shift on anrace track you a always taught that think smooth Ie with a H pattern shifter to not necessarily shift quick but be smooth:) makes car last longer :):)

[notorious_benny]

Guys, stop looking for excuses...... Of course the FPV's were quicker, auto box's, and a crap load more torque across the whole rev range are going to win.....

A mid 13 using a v box would relate to a low 13 using the timing equipment at the strip ..... the Maloo is still no slouch. The FPV's are definitely an awesome package in a straight-line.

I agree that if all the utes in the comparo were manuals the gap would have been less, however the 2 FPV's would still take the drag racing honors.

However as I said before my pick is still the Maloo as for me it was superior in all other important areas and for my needs still adequate in the horsepower stakes.

[notorious_benny]

Oh and did I mention that I think it looks the biz with pentagon 20's !!!!

[185iboy]

I'm not a fan of the VE but I'd still pick a E3 Maloo over a F6 ute. GS ute doesn't even compare to the Maloo in terms of features and looks.

:drool:
http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/56/148524156_full.jpg

[brasher]

boy howdy pentagons suit the maloo so much more than any other car!

Black Maloo on Black Pentagons :bow::bow::bow:

[EfiJy]

As far as utes go yes..

Sedan wise the GT is the new King.

Nothing I have heard so far would indicate to me that the Coyote powered GT is better than the F6.

I'd even go so far as to say the F6 is consistently quicker than the GT.

[4VMan]

Nothing I have heard so far would indicate to me that the Coyote powered GT is better than the F6.

I'd even go so far as to say the F6 is consistently quicker than the GT.

HUH??? havent you read any of the reviews or seen the results?

[EfiJy]

HUH??? havent you read any of the reviews or seen the results?

Which ones?

Every review I've read put the F6 ahead for driveability, speed and consistency.

The GT is a bit of a one trick pony without the intercooler. If you don't get your best run within the first 3 runs, call it a day. The more you drive it, the slower it will get.

Oh and there are real complaints that the GT pushes a bit into corners while the F6 is more neutral.

So where exactly am I wrong?

And how do you arrive at the GT sedan being the better car than the F6 if the F6 ute is clearly better (according to Motor)?

[4VMan]

Which ones?

Every review I've read put the F6 ahead for driveability, speed and consistency.

The GT is a bit of a one trick pony without the intercooler. If you don't get your best run within the first 3 runs, call it a day. The more you drive it, the slower it will get.

Oh and there are real complaints that the GT pushes a bit into corners while the F6 is more neutral.

So where exactly am I wrong?

And how do you arrive at the GT sedan being the better car than the F6 if the F6 ute is clearly better (according to Motor)?
Have you read the F6/GT/GTS test? GT was fastest of the 3..

Also there is no GT ute for starters only the GS...

[EfiJy]

Have you read the F6/GT/GTS test? GT was fastest of the 3..

Also there is no GT ute for starters only the GS...

Wheels?

The F6 had the best in gear acceleration. The GT only pulled away at 180km/h. At that speed, it's almost a case of who cares?

Does fastest also imply best? Last time I engaged my brain, my answer was "not really".

As for the utes, a "GT" ute probably wouldn't be much quicker than the GS because the ute struggles to put all its power to the road anyhow.

[Wonky]

Guys, stop looking for excuses......

I'm not looking for excuses as I realise the new Ford S/C V8 is an awesome motor - I just don't like some other aspects of the car so even if I had the money probably wouldn't buy one. I was only commenting on the relative slowness of the Maloo compared to what I know they can do eg. Bouka's Senator. Brasher did explain that and I can see where he's coming from, though must admit I thought timing at the drags started as soon as you broke the beam at the lights and thought the idea was to get as close to it before taking off as you can.

[fishla]

They need someone else to pilot that Maloo.
My VE SS (auto) did 13.7 @ 106mph with just a catback

This sucker runs on 4cyls :lol:

[EfiJy]

I'm not looking for excuses as I realise the new Ford S/C V8 is an awesome motor - I just don't like some other aspects of the car so even if I had the money probably wouldn't buy one. I was only commenting on the relative slowness of the Maloo compared to what I know they can do eg. Bouka's Senator. Brasher did explain that and I can see where he's coming from, though must admit I thought timing at the drags started as soon as you broke the beam at the lights and thought the idea was to get as close to it before taking off as you can.

Isn't the drag strip around 0.3s quicker than Wheels/Motor manage?

That would then translate to......

400 metres

F6 12.79 @ 178.06
GS 12.89 @ 175.63
Maloo 13.32 @ 172.26

So the Maloo is not far away from your pal's time after all unless I'm making things up. :confused:

[6_litre_man]

how hot is that yellow maloo :drool:

my ute ran 13.6 with pacie short extractors and catback
the maloo should have been quicker

[etrocket]

Stock F6 sedan though has run 12.3 at drags. Performance wise f6 is king

[185iboy]

Isn't the drag strip around 0.3s quicker than Wheels/Motor manage?

That would then translate to......

400 metres

F6 12.79 @ 178.06
GS 12.89 @ 175.63
Maloo 13.32 @ 172.26

So the Maloo is not far away from your pal's time after all unless I'm making things up. :confused:

The speed the F6 ute ran is 110mph. I've ran 12.5 with that speed so speed indicates what it's capable of without wheelspin. The Maloo's 107mph speed could be around a 13.0?


1/4 mile time isn't everything. It's just impressive what the GT and F6 have managed to do on it.

[vessvafm]

My MY10 SSV afm ran a 13.9 stock standard.

[etrocket]

Manual Maloo with a good driver should see a 13.3 - 13.5. Can't see it been faster than that. What it lacks in 1/4 mile time makes up for it in appearance. Tuff looking ute

[Martin_D]

Typically in drag racing you have several feet "rollout" where the car is actually rolling and began moving before the beams have tripped to calculate the ET/MPH.

Rollour is actually only a few inches
If it were feet there would be seconds difference :)

[Street Boxer]

Apparently the ZF Ford Autos shift faster than the 6 speed manuals can, maybe hence the quicker times from the Fords keeping the turbo on boost between gears for the F6 too..

[ATOMICSS]

Manual Maloo with a good driver should see a 13.3 - 13.5. Can't see it been faster than that. What it lacks in 1/4 mile time makes up for it in appearance. Tuff looking ute

Bit faster than that, I ran a 13.17 couple of weeks ago at motorplex with 1800 on the clock. And trust me I can't drive (man should know his limitations). Well over 2 second 60 foot. A decent driver could run a very high 12 in a Maloo .

[Kuzman89]

Apparently the ZF Ford Autos shift faster than the 6 speed manuals can, maybe hence the quicker times from the Fords keeping the turbo on boost between gears for the F6 too..

Most new auto's can. Hence why they are the preffered track weapon.

Still I think a decent ripshift would come close if not beat the ZF

EDIT: I meant 1/4m weapon

[AzuR]

Bit faster than that, I ran a 13.17 couple of weeks ago at motorplex with 1800 on the clock. And trust me I can't drive (man should know his limitations). Well over 2 second 60 foot. A decent driver could run a very high 12 in a Maloo .

Hey mate,

Nice time, im going to take mine down on wednesday, you heading down again? Hoping with the slightly wider rubber on the 20th it should hook up well coupled with auto, going to give it a good shot thats for sure :)

[ATOMICSS]

Hey mate,

Nice time, im going to take mine down on wednesday, you heading down again? Hoping with the slightly wider rubber on the 20th it should hook up well coupled with auto, going to give it a good shot thats for sure :)

Won't be taking mine down again until it's been made a bit healthier. Really just took it down stock to check it's not a slow one before spending too much money to make it go faster, 3 or 4 runs & home by 8pm.
Good luck on Weds, be interesting to see how an auto Maloo goes.

[mustanger]

Stock F6 sedan though has run 12.3 at drags. Performance wise f6 is king

Maybe one or two have...but most run 13s .....:hide:

[notorious_benny]

A stock F6 with the ZF SHOULD run in the 12's at the drags........ Stock G6 E Turbos regularly run 12's.........

My old FG Turbo was ridiculously fast in a straight line for a stock 44g car, and with only 1500kms so far on my Maloo at the moment, would probably account for it in a straight line....

BUUUUT.. ..... it didnt handle, sound, brake or LOOK anywhere near as good as a Maloo does ......!! :) :) :)

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g437/notorious_benny/P1090422.jpg

I LOVE mine!!

I might be biased.....

[mrtockley]

A stock F6 with the ZF SHOULD run in the 12's at the drags........ Stock G6 E Turbos regularly run 12's.........

My old FG Turbo was ridiculously fast in a straight line for a stock 44g car, and with only 1500kms so far on my Maloo at the moment, would probably account for it in a straight line....

BUUUUT.. ..... it didnt handle, sound, brake or LOOK anywhere near as good as a Maloo does ......!! :) :) :)

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g437/notorious_benny/P1090422.jpg

I LOVE mine!!

I might be biased.....

Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder... I could never get my head around those retarded brake light stickers ... :confused:

[dawkinsdisciple]

it is indeed and that maloo looks fantastic, benny, i'd be proud too

i know what i'd rather have be it XR6, F6 or even GS

everything from the lack of a seperate cab and body to the IRS to the still pretty cranking motor, the whole thing comes together better. both the falcons have better motors from a bfyb pov but the LS3 certainly isn't a boat anchor

could even be a total package as phil might say... even though he can sound like a bit of a toss sometimes

[AndrewR8]

gotta say I never liked the VU - VZ ute, lack of room and just looked a bit thin and plain, excl the Maloo which pulled it off. I though the B series utes were heavy but had good room and looked tougher.

But the VE utes in my opinion are far superior to the Ford utes, good storage, good level of equipment, better handling etc. The Ford utes feel like their stuck in the early 2000 era, but the motors are fricken awesome.

The ford motors in the Holden ute (both 6T and 8s/c) would be awesome.

[701let]

Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder... I could never get my head around those retarded brake light stickers ... :confused:

The Stickers aren't that offensive are they? Tough crowd...

The maloo looks like a hell of alot more car than a gs/xr6 ute..

[VYBerlinaV8]

How much quicker is an F6 than an XR6 Turbo these days (both stock)? Also, how is reliability on these things? I've been told reliability is OK until you start modding them...

Anyone got any thoughts?

[FOON]

I Like the VE Maloo over any current Ford/FPV offering in the looks department, same with the sedans. As to engine reliability in the turbo's, I have been running 15-17psi through my Typhoon for the last 2 years, and I'm not easy on the car and its holding up pretty well with no issues.

[notorious_benny]

I don't know about modding a turbo, but I put 65000km on mine stock which included a lot of trips towing a 1600kg boat/trailer.

Engine/gearbox/clutch never gave me any trouble, it would pull 6th gear uphills with the boat if you wanted...... probably not the best for the box though.

Only issue was crap bushes that shagged out every 25,000km, and a bit of driveline shunt.

Aside from the relative lack of low rev grunt the Maloo feels like a much more solid vehicle. Particularly the driveline is nice and tight and shunt free, and it spins the rears up great without a hint of tramp!!

[Ghia351]

Thought this might interest some, GT 335 with tune only.
YouTube - FORD FG GT RUNS 11 SEC PASSES AT SYDNEY DRAGWAY RACE FOR REAL - 8/12/2010

[jsme]

Oh god, that's a monster.

[NODDY347]

Monster it is, give it some rear grip and it hooks up well. Stunning straight-line performance for the money.

[mrtockley]

Thought this might interest some, GT 335 with tune only.
YouTube - FORD FG GT RUNS 11 SEC PASSES AT SYDNEY DRAGWAY RACE FOR REAL - 8/12/2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxo-Z9f0JHI)

Jesus, that's scary. Tune only? Does anyone know what power it's putting down? Wait until they start with exhausts, proper cold air, and a cooler!

[JimmyXR6T04]

Jesus, that's scary. Tune only? Does anyone know what power it's putting down? Wait until they start with exhausts, proper cold air, and a cooler!

According to the ford forums it's putting out about 370-380rwkw. Stock dyno run was about 314rwkw. Apparently it was just a quick tune too. I'm looking forward to seeing these with some more time spent on them, and then some further mods.

[Martin_D]

Apparently it was just a quick tune too.

I like the way that folks taking these cars to the track, running different rims, drag radials, etc. etc. only ever have a 'quick tune'. Load of bollocks :)

[Evman]

Apparently you can get 400rwkw from these tune only too :lol:

[dawkinsdisciple]

I like the way that folks taking these cars to the track, running different rims, drag radials, etc. etc. only ever have a 'quick tune'. Load of bollocks :)

i've always wondered that... obviously "we gave it our all" doesn't sound as good as a smug leaning back and "yeh, she's still got more in her, it was only a quick tune too..."

[Martin_D]

The quick tune its up there with the fabled -
"Get it Going Tune"
"Running in Tune"
"Touch up Tune"

and the very very best from the west......the -

"On the Edge Tune"
:bow:

[NODDY347]

Yes its a fact thats glossed over that the car isn't running street radials with its "Tune only".
Although what would be the point of taking a car to the track that has 370+rwkw running 245 street tyres and wheel spinning to half track?

[troytroy]

Impressive stuff - 11.7 for not much investment. bloody hell.

Should be retitled though: "Tune, Rear Wheel and Tyre" only

With factory wheel and tyre combo - it would be interesting to see the time - with ONLY tune

:)

Probably similar to the age old argument whether valve springs are a bolt-on, 3.9 diff counts as tune ONLY and slicks are classified as "Street trim"........

[185iboy]

I'd call it 'Street trim with traction'

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

Brilliant time and great car. We were all wondering how they were going to keep the power levels down from the factory given it's a 5l V8 with a 1.9l blower on top of it...that's why they are making the power and times they are, because the engine is so held back from factory that making a heap more is childs play.

If only the bank balance allowed one to be in my driveway :(

[EfiJy]

Thought this might interest some, GT 335 with tune only.
YouTube - FORD FG GT RUNS 11 SEC PASSES AT SYDNEY DRAGWAY RACE FOR REAL - 8/12/2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxo-Z9f0JHI)

What I found even more impressive was the WRX's mph!

It still got beaten by the FG even with AWD though. Must have been a great launch by a good driver. :)

[Uwish]

I like the way that folks taking these cars to the track, running different rims, drag radials, etc. etc. only ever have a 'quick tune'. Load of bollocks :)

Martin, this is Autotechs Engineerings car. The driver said the car will go better once the torque tags are fixed.
11.7 with tune and street Radial drag tires is a good thing.
Also stock this made 315kw atw on their DD dyno. Tuned it was around 370kw atw.
Bring on a full exhaust and IC.

[dawkinsdisciple]

Impressive stuff - 11.7 for not much investment. bloody hell.

Should be retitled though: "Tune, Rear Wheel and Tyre" only

With factory wheel and tyre combo - it would be interesting to see the time - with ONLY tune

:)

Probably similar to the age old argument whether valve springs are a bolt-on, 3.9 diff counts as tune ONLY and slicks are classified as "Street trim"........

hah, that's another one that gets me - "full street trim" i always took to mean as it drives on the street. sort of what the "full" part implies really as opposed to just "street trim" +/- slicks

whats that? you don't run slicks on the street? but that'd make it slower then the number your touting about with slicks on it?! but its rwd and needs slicks to get the traction? but then its not exactly as you drive it on the street as it were is it...

not taking a dig at this guy in particular, just hate hearing the "full street trim (sort of)" or "tune only (except for other bits that make it faster...)". when the sticky rubber bits at the back could mean your cars going to be up to a second slower then it would otherwise be on the street, its a bit of an omission when your telling your mates you have an 11 sec street car.... though i understand a 400rwkw car is going to struggle getting power down through 245's, well, then its not an 11 second car in ful street trim is it? again, its not just this falcon, i say the same about any car in the same position that makes the same claim... but its just part of the sport i guess.

[nikola]

I agree. I get annoyed when people claim street trim and yet they run slicks. That's not "street trim" or "stock with just a tune".

[FireArc]

I like the way that folks taking these cars to the track, running different rims, drag radials, etc. etc. only ever have a 'quick tune'. Load of bollocks :)

Well both XFT and Autotech have used the term 'quick tune'. It's far from me to be an expert in this field, but these two are big players in the business and i dont take their thoughts/actions lightly.

[afmss]

I doubt that they are making 300rwkw , I had a run with one on friday , and lets just say my 300rwkw ute was more than a match for it .lol

[cams290]

I agree. I get annoyed when people claim street trim and yet they run slicks. That's not "street trim" or "stock with just a tune".
FYI they were not slicks, they were Mickey Thomson drag radials which are D.O.T approved in the USA but not in Australia.
I have seen plenty of cars use M/T radials on the street, I have even used them myself.
BIG difference between slicks and M/T radials.

[dawkinsdisciple]

FYI they were not slicks, they were Mickey Thomson drag radials which are D.O.T approved in the USA but not in Australia.
I have seen plenty of cars use M/T radials on the street, I have even used them myself.
BIG difference between slicks and M/T radials.

...and the guy was just referring to my comment, not this car but thanks anywho. but back to the falcon, well, its not a tune only pass then is it if we're going to be pedantic.

who cares, not an issue, everyone seems to do it on the strip anyway. just seems like a bit of a white lie every time i hear it... but "sort of street trim except for the slicks/drag radials" doesn't sound as good as "full street" so i doubt it'll stick.

[Martin_D]

Drag Radials are a good idea for any 2WD car at the track, and were accepted for most LS1 bolt on style classes in the days of the LS1 Drag Nationals :)
Spiro is a good tuner (as is XFT Simon!), they would have got that car pretty close to 100%, they are no newbies :cool:
There is however possibly more left in the software that we dont have access to yet, which makes the term relevant if not entirely accurate

[YMK]

FYI they were not slicks, they were Mickey Thomson drag radials which are D.O.T approved in the USA but not in Australia.
I have seen plenty of cars use M/T radials on the street, I have even used them myself.
BIG difference between slicks and M/T radials.

Is that the same as saying that if you change the valve springs in an LSx it's unopened? :smilesandbanana:

[F6 Hoon]

FYI they were not slicks, they were Mickey Thomson drag radials which are D.O.T approved in the USA but not in Australia.
I have seen plenty of cars use M/T radials on the street, I have even used them myself.
BIG difference between slicks and M/T radials.

So what, they're not legal to use on the street. Further to that last time I checked we weren't in the US of A. Either run it on factory rubber to stake a claim, or use ET Streets, slicks & front runners and go for broke.

Sure, the 11.7 is a good time, what does it run in street trim with the tune i.e. stock rubber.

[dawkinsdisciple]

So what, they're not legal to use on the street. Further to that last time I checked we weren't in the US of A. Either run it on factory rubber to stake a claim, or use ET Streets, slicks & front runners and go for broke.

Sure, the 11.7 is a good time, what does it run in street trim with the tune i.e. stock rubber.

exactly... thanks mate!

[GODSMACK]

It doesnt matter how many threads we have on the new Fords, some people just cant swallow the fact that they now have a more superior engine than their beloved Holden..

Seriously, when will it end..

[GODSMACK]

I doubt that they are making 300rwkw , I had a run with one on friday , and lets just say my 300rwkw ute was more than a match for it .lol

Yep, because you know for a fact that the other driver had his accelerator mashed to the floor..?

[RED R8]

It doesnt matter how many threads we have on the new Fords, some people just cant swallow the fact that they now have a more superior engine than their beloved Holden..

Seriously, when will it end..
Six cylinder "yes"
V8 "No"

I like the fords and Holdens but bought the Holden because I wanted a V8 and the engines were better...No if no buts

If I wanted a tough six I would buy a F6..

[GODSMACK]

Six cylinder "yes"
V8 "No"

I like the fords and Holdens but bought the Holden because I wanted a V8 and the engines were better...No if no buts

If I wanted a tough six I would buy a F6..

V8 also, get your head out of the sand...

[steve_t]

Hahaha.... 'oh the ironing' :rofl:

[RED R8]

V8 also, get your head out of the sand...
Your on the wrong forum chump....:eyes: You can have a ford V8 I like my 550hp tickled LS2 thanks.

Oh and I only had to change one cam...

[feistl]

Your on the wrong forum chump....:eyes: You can have a ford V8 I like my 550hp tickled LS2 thanks.

Oh and I only had to change one cam...

And yet you didnt even need to change the cam on the ford engine to get similar levels of power?

[GODSMACK]

Your on the wrong forum chump....:eyes: You can have a ford V8 I like my 550hp tickled LS2 thanks.

Oh and I only had to change one cam...

In stock form, the New S/C V8 Ford is superior to anything Holden/HSV currently have on offer. ..

Your car aint stock... Its hardly a stock vs stock comparison.

[GODSMACK]

Hahaha.... 'oh the ironing' :rofl:

'irony' perhaps?

[steve_t]

'irony' perhaps?

Wasn't it just? :smilesandbanana:

[seedyrom]

'irony' perhaps?

HD8ZtM1sWgI

[GODSMACK]

HD8ZtM1sWgI

Nice... I cant see anything....

[VY5.7LTR]

Nice... I cant see anything....

Except the color of a ford badge:rofl:

[RED R8]

In stock form, the New S/C V8 Ford is superior to anything Holden/HSV currently have on offer. ..

Your car aint stock... Its hardly a stock vs stock comparison.
so it should its blown and beats the holden by how few hundredths of a second ?

Im not doubting its a ripper engine and yes may even have an edge over the holden but how would the LS3 go with a blower ?

Surprisingly I am not a one eyed Holden man I do like the fords but saying the engine is better because it makes slightly more power and it is slightly faster with a supercharger doesn't in my eyes make it a better engine...

At the end of the day buy the one you like ford and holden have always swayed over who has the advantage pick the one you like and enjoy it the LSX series engines may now be just behind the forced inducted Ford but I have always felt the LSX engines responded better to fewer mods and pumped out results at the strip and on tracks...Lets see what Holden/HSV roll out next the ball is in their court.

[cams290]

So what, they're not legal to use on the street. Further to that last time I checked we weren't in the US of A. Either run it on factory rubber to stake a claim, or use ET Streets, slicks & front runners and go for broke.

Sure, the 11.7 is a good time, what does it run in street trim with the tune i.e. stock rubber.

Don't know when the last time you checked was ?:goodjob:

But they have been legal in the USA for years, they have the approval stamp on the sidewall, they even have a street radial class.

Plenty of so called records have been claimed using ET Streets, they were even used and approved in LS1 National events if my memory is correct.

[GTS_365]

so it should its blown and beats the holden by how few hundredths of a second ?

Im not doubting its a ripper engine and yes may even have an edge over the holden but how would the LS3 go with a blower ?

Surprisingly I am not a one eyed Holden man I do like the fords but saying the engine is better because it makes slightly more power and it is slightly faster with a supercharger doesn't in my eyes make it a better engine...

At the end of the day buy the one you like ford and holden have always swayed over who has the advantage pick the one you like and enjoy it the LSX series engines may now be just behind the forced inducted Ford but I have always felt the LSX engines responded better to fewer mods and pumped out results at the strip and on tracks...Lets see what Holden/HSV roll out next the ball is in their court.


Agreed. Forced induction on any engine will make it go quick, but doesn't mean it's a better engine. The Ford guys are just fortunate that the blower comes from the factory, which makes it legal with warranty. Until Holden/HSV bring out a factory forced induction V8, the Ford will always be ahead. Personally I like old school pushrod engines with a big cam, so you will never see me driving any type of FI car. I like a car with all motor instead of adding snails/blowers to them.
In saying that Ford have woken up in the last decade, and their vehicles with little money spent fly. Hopefully Holden can produce something similar for those "stock" enthusiasts.

[cams290]

so it should its blown and beats the holden by how few hundredths of a second ?

Im not doubting its a ripper engine and yes may even have an edge over the holden but how would the LS3 go with a blower ?

Surprisingly I am not a one eyed Holden man I do like the fords but saying the engine is better because it makes slightly more power and it is slightly faster with a supercharger doesn't in my eyes make it a better engine...

At the end of the day buy the one you like ford and holden have always swayed over who has the advantage pick the one you like and enjoy it the LSX series engines may now be just behind the forced inducted Ford but I have always felt the LSX engines responded better to fewer mods and pumped out results at the strip and on tracks...Lets see what Holden/HSV roll out next the ball is in their court.

1) First is 1st and second comes last.
2) It does have an edge over the Holden.
3) The LS3 doesn't have a blower on it from the factory.
4) The blown Miami is picking up 100kw with a tune only.

So many holes in your defense buddy, these things are making 380rwkw with a tune only, no IC yet.
This motor has been out for a couple of months and puts Ford/FPV at the top of the "FACTORY STOCK" performance tree with both V8's and 6's, hell even the F6 had the edge over anything that HSV had to offer not including the W427.

I couldn't give a stuff if this is a Holden/HSV forum, I am stating the facts, and the facts are hard to swallow for some people on here.

End of rant :soap:

[mrtockley]

Agreed. Forced induction on any engine will make it go quick, but doesn't mean it's a better engine. The Ford guys are just fortunate that the blower comes from the factory, which makes it legal with warranty. Until Holden/HSV bring out a factory forced induction V8, the Ford will always be ahead. Personally I like old school pushrod engines with a big cam, so you will never see me driving any type of FI car. I like a car with all motor instead of adding snails/blowers to them.
In saying that Ford have woken up in the last decade, and their vehicles with little money spent fly. Hopefully Holden can produce something similar for those "stock" enthusiasts.

It's been covered many times before.. GM's blown motors cost way too much to put in a HSV. Blown or not that's how the engine comes from the factory so saying that an LS with a blower would beat it blah blah is a silly argument. Also, LS fans keep forgetting that the LS3 is headbutting the ceiling in terms of power. HSV has no where to go from here except down. The Miami - although in current guise is just pipping the competition is severely handicapped and has plenty of head room for future releases. They've spent the money, done their homework and can now spend time on sorting out the rest of the chassis and other upgrades down the track. It's exciting times for Australian motoring.

[dawkinsdisciple]

HD8ZtM1sWgI

what the hell seedy! you have a perfect internet byte for any situation...

the ironing was definately the irony. i'll have to remember that one...

standard s/c V8 = good
very tunable standard s/c V8 = even better
'' + competition to our favourite manufacturer = we'll just have to wait and see


not sure how people aren't getting this equation...

[RED R8]

1) First is 1st and second comes last.
2) It does have an edge over the Holden.
3) The LS3 doesn't have a blower on it from the factory.
4) The blown Miami is picking up 100kw with a tune only.

So many holes in your defense buddy, these things are making 380rwkw with a tune only, no IC yet.
This motor has been out for a couple of months and puts Ford/FPV at the top of the "FACTORY STOCK" performance tree with both V8's and 6's, hell even the F6 had the edge over anything that HSV had to offer not including the W427.

I couldn't give a stuff if this is a Holden/HSV forum, I am stating the facts, and the facts are hard to swallow for some people on here.

End of rant :soap:
I woukd still rather buy a new Clubbie and install my own blower thanks...I know its tried and tested and proven itself. If I wanted to buy a stock car and not touch it I would maybe go the Ford...You may find some things hard to swallow :spew: but I can live with the cold hard facts fords have the edge as standard off the showroom floor (motor figure wise) for me and 99% of the LS1 fraternity they may stay with the Holden/HSV range for its mod ability and there is more to any car then just the motor, some may jump ship next car but thats the great thing about the Aussie car battle... :)

[Martin_D]

For those that cant understand how a 5.0 with 8psi boost, even interheated like the Ford unit is faster than an NA 6.2 - refer below -
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee229/sick-k20z3/Stupid_InternetPolice.png

Wait till one of these 'quick tuners' works out how to run a blown Falc on E85....should be good for 10s straight up. Theres the tip for the quick tune gang, get a quick 'Corn Tune' :lol:

[steve_t]

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee229/sick-k20z3/Stupid_InternetPolice.png



Hahaha... leave meow!

[Quadcams]

Yes its a fact thats glossed over that the car isn't running street radials with its "Tune only".
Although what would be the point of taking a car to the track that has 370+rwkw running 245 street tyres and wheel spinning to half track?

Well said NODDY, one of the few educated comments on here.
If you wanted to see its potential with that power, why would you bother with factory rubber.

[steve_t]

Well said NODDY, one of the few educated comments on here.
If you wanted to see its potential with that power, why would you bother with factory rubber.

Cos every bloody second person keeps using caps to write STOCK or FACTORY :1peek:

[Evman]

Majority of people will never go to the drags. It makes perfect sense to see what it can manage on street tyres.

[mrtockley]

I woukd still rather buy a new Clubbie and install my own blower thanks...I know its tried and tested and proven itself. If I wanted to buy a stock car and not touch it I would maybe go the Ford...You may find some things hard to swallow :spew: but I can live with the cold hard facts fords have the edge as standard off the showroom floor (motor figure wise) for me and 99% of the LS1 fraternity they may stay with the Holden/HSV range for its mod ability and there is more to any car then just the motor, some may jump ship next car but thats the great thing about the Aussie car battle... :)

99%? You ran around and quickly asked everyone?

[GODSMACK]

99%? You ran around and quickly asked everyone?

I think he meant 99% of his friends i.e. 3 people..

[701let]

99%? You ran around and quickly asked everyone?

Haha obviously didn't ask you did he mate :)

[mrtockley]

Haha obviously didn't ask you did he mate :)

Hehe no. Never let the facts get in the way though !

[RED R8]

I think he meant 99% of his friends i.e. 3 people..
So you think the 20 odd thousand members on here will flock to the Ford because it has a weak as pi$$ 5.0 that relies on a blower to gain 10kw over a N/A LS3 ? Hold me back seems too good to be true...

[mrtockley]

So you think the 20 odd thousand members on here will flock to the Ford because its weak as pi$$ 5.0 now has a blower ?

Weak as piss? ? In N/A form it puts out around 307 kW. A tad bit more than my weak as piss L98..

[RED R8]

Weak as piss? ? In N/A form it puts out around 307 kW. A tad bit more than my weak as piss L98..

So it leaps to 335kw with the blower ? 28 fwkw's from the blower ? You would have to put a catback exhaust on a new GTS to come anywhere near the 335kw's of Forced inducted Ford engineered goodness...

Look not doubting its a great donk and at last something decent out of the ford V8 stables and yes some competition But I see it as a complex high tech multi cammed, valved motor with a supercharger making 10odd fwkw's than a GTS ? maybe they will respond better and make more power with little mods but the old pushrod single cam LS3 holds it own and around a track would still give fords latest and greatest a decent match....I see holden'd next range of motors/cars leapfrogging Ford again as they usually do but for now the competition is good for us consumers..If you like the Ford so much buy it.

[SM1DY]

So it leaps to 335kw with the blower ? 28 fwkw's from the blower ?

Your being a little ignorant now, it's becoming pointless to even try a discuss this with you. Miami isn't at it's power ceiling at 335kw, it only needs to slightly out-do the LS3 power to give it bragging rights in its market segment therefore it has been limited (heavily) to 335kw.

But you don't have to go far to find 2 different GT's that have run around 330rwkw stock on different dynos as well as another which has managed a very credible 314rwkw.

Just because on the badge at the back says 335, it doesn't make it so. Lets keep this thread out of the gutter, hey?

[GODSMACK]

So you think the 20 odd thousand members on here will flock to the Ford because it has a weak as pi$$ 5.0 that relies on a blower to gain 10kw over a N/A LS3 ? Hold me back seems too good to be true...

Dude, there are 4 bangers with a snail that will leave our cars for dead, no where near 307kw, nor the price we pay for HSV's/FPV's..... Your point?

Dare i say if a new GT pulled up next to you at a set of lights and asked you to both give it a squirt, i have no doubt you would pretend not to have heard him.. (insert ' i dont race comment here') The 5.0L S/C just made you shit your pants!!! :goodjob:

[RED R8]

Your being a little ignorant now, it's becoming pointless to even try a discuss this with you. Miami isn't at it's power ceiling at 335kw, it only needs to slightly out-do the LS3 power to give it bragging rights in its market segment therefore it has been limited (heavily) to 335kw.

But you don't have to go far to find 2 different GT's that have run around 330rwkw stock on different dynos as well as another which has managed a very credible 314rwkw.

Just because on the badge at the back says 335, it doesn't make it so. Lets keep this thread out of the gutter, hey?
At no point has the thread been taking into the gutter..Ford CLAIM 335kw so thats what I went off sorry for stating THEIR output figure..Like I said its a step forward for ford not enough to see me convert I like my power N/A no ignorance from me it just takes more that 10kw's for me to see bragging rights I would like to see some track times off the showroom floor (not just straight line times) and see who has the bragging rights with Braking handling and overall performance.
Sorry for discussing Holden Vs Ford in a Holden Forum...How dare I...:rofl:

[RED R8]

Dude, there are 4 bangers with a snail that will leave our cars for dead, no where near 307kw, nor the price we pay for HSV's/FPV's..... Your point?

Dare i say if a new GT pulled up next to you at a set of lights and asked you to both give it a squirt, i have no doubt you would pretend not to have heard him.. (insert ' i dont race comment here') The 5.0L S/C just made you shit your pants!!! :goodjob:
if a 335 Kw car makes you shit your pants you need to join the Lada Niva forums..
I am happy with my 12.1 second (as driven on the street) old tech LS2 shitta thanks, and it holds it own at the lights...(thats if I chose to street race)

[SM1DY]

No need to get your nickers in a twist, I'm just trying help with some real world figures, I'm not advocating that a more powerful car is automatically the greatest so there's no need to tear me a new one.

[GODSMACK]

if a 335 Kw car makes you shit your pants you need to join the Lada Niva forums..
I am happy with my 12.1 second (as driven on the street) old tech LS2 shitta thanks, and it holds it own at the lights...(thats if I chose to street race)

Everyone knows (except you obviously) that when it comes to pull and acceleration, its all about the torque curve and how quickly that power is put to the ground.

All you think that matters is kws... Time to get your head out of the clouds...

[RED R8]

No need to get your nickers in a twist, I'm just trying help with some real world figures, I'm not advocating that a more powerful car is automatically the greatest so there's no need to tear me a new one.
Haha Im not tearing you a new one mate..Real world figures are just very hard to sift through eg:

Tuned Miami has run 11.7-11.9 ish (great times)
Tuned LSX series cars also have run 11's
cam only LSX's running 10's (at best) but low 11's generally..

There all good times and over time the Miami should shine with new mods being developed but the LSX motors are as good, I guess it comes down to the depth of your wallet..

[Carby]

Everyone knows (except you obviously) that when it comes to pull and acceleration, its all about the torque curve and how quickly that power is put to the ground.

All you think that matters is kws... Time to get your head out of the clouds...

You are under just as great a misconception - it depends on the application, if you have a F1 it's all about Revs and KW's, torque is secondary, if it's a 50 tonne truck it's all torque. Cars fall in between with weight being the major variable.

I thought everyone knew that................:jester:

[RED R8]

Everyone knows (except you obviously) that when it comes to pull and acceleration, its all about the torque curve and how quickly that power is put to the ground.

All you think that matters is kws... Time to get your head out of the clouds...
You seriously need to step away from the crack pipe....Kw's mean FA as I have said all along the Miami has more Kw's but that doesn't make it fast around a track it seems YOU struggling with that one, and how quickly power is put to the ground is only as good as the set of tyres you have...get a grip mate read my posts and then type.

[mrtockley]

At no point has the thread been taking into the gutter..Ford CLAIM 335kw so thats what I went off sorry for stating THEIR output figure..Like I said its a step forward for ford not enough to see me convert I like my power N/A no ignorance from me it just takes more that 10kw's for me to see bragging rights I would like to see some track times off the showroom floor (not just straight line times) and see who has the bragging rights with Braking handling and overall performance.
Sorry for discussing Holden Vs Ford in a Holden Forum...How dare I...:rofl:

Pretty sure you're wrong their again pal. Recent track tests conducted, saw the GT ahead of the GTS as well as the 1/4 mile. There's nothing wrong with loving your brand of car but closing both eyes won't make the truth go away.

[RED R8]

Pretty sure you're wrong their again pal. Recent track tests conducted, saw the GT ahead of the GTS as well as the 1/4 mile. There's nothing wrong with loving your brand of car but closing both eyes won't make the truth go away.
If it is quicker thats great I like a competitive Holden and Ford market it gives us better cars. My eyes are open its my I love car its everything I want in a car its not the Brand Im attached too I couldn't care what brand it is its the actual car I love. I would still drive and consider the Ford GT You would be mad not too..

[troytroy]

You guys have to chill out,

You could probably state all your comments/arguments without the petty statements.

Anyway - here's my two bobs worth:

Advertised power is a little loose these days with the Fords. No F6 Typhoon has come from the factory with ONLY 310fwkw. Secondly it's where the Torque is and how long it lasts throught the rev range that counts - and that's where the GT craps all over the already torquey LS3. The LS3 has to wait till 4,600rpm to get it's 550nm whilst the GT makes 570nm at 2,200rpm. These torque figures are the biggest determinants for the heavy arse, near two ton, sedans. The Torque band of the GT means it's less likely to be caught in the wrong gear either. Something that any LSX owner trying to find 3rd will know about,

Another factor in advertised power figures is that the FPV has trucks loads of headroom and tuning potential - sort of like comparing an old VT LS1 with it's measly factory detuned 220kw against the later Tickford 220kw strokers. One engine had an extra 100kw or so to go...........the other one far less.

Around a racetrack - a N/A car will be more tractable/predictable and generally fuel friendly, if you're talking long distance events. For drag racing though - Forced induction is where it's at - as it usually coincides with traction enhancing tyres and track surface.

I think a H/C or just cam LS2-3 will certainly be a good competitor to a S/C 5.0 from the lights but on the highway the S/C will pull away.

[Quadcams]

Haha Im not tearing you a new one mate..Real world figures are just very hard to sift through eg:

Tuned Miami has run 11.7-11.9 ish (great times)
Tuned LSX series cars also have run 11's
cam only LSX's running 10's (at best) but low 11's generally..

There all good times and over time the Miami should shine with new mods being developed but the LSX motors are as good, I guess it comes down to the depth of your wallet..
I hate to say it but you say a LSX has run 11's, what on the 3rd person to tune it when it first came out, but what were the first tunes were doning on the LSX, they were stoked running low 13's hight 12's, no taking away from the LSX motors being a very good motor which has come a long way from where it all started, but seriously dude get out more and you we realise pretty quickly that 11.7 the Miami has run with a tune is just the beginning, a matter of fact I think that time will get smashed tonight, might even see a 10, yes I can hear you guys laughing, but we will see.
Get a year of tuning and running at the strip, these Miami's are going to improve out of sight.
Dont get me wrong i have utmost respect for the Lsx motors, they are a tried and proven motor.
After reading through some of the posts on this thread alot of people need on this forum need to get there head out of the sand and get with the times big time.

[RED R8]

You guys have to chill out,

You could probably state all your comments/arguments without the petty statements.

Anyway - here's my two bobs worth:

Advertised power is a little loose these days with the Fords. No F6 Typhoon has come from the factory with ONLY 310fwkw. Secondly it's where the Torque is and how long it lasts throught the rev range that counts - and that's where the GT craps all over the already torquey LS3. The LS3 has to wait till 4,600rpm to get it's 550nm whilst the GT makes 570nm at 2,200rpm. These torque figures are the biggest determinants for the heavy arse, near two ton, sedans. The Torque band of the GT means it's less likely to be caught in the wrong gear either. Something that any LSX owner trying to find 3rd will know about,

Another factor in advertised power figures is that the FPV has trucks loads of headroom and tuning potential - sort of like comparing an old VT LS1 with it's measly factory detuned 220kw against the later Tickford 220kw strokers. One engine had an extra 100kw or so to go...........the other one far less.

Around a racetrack - a N/A car will be more tractable/predictable and generally fuel friendly, if you're talking long distance events. For drag racing though - Forced induction is where it's at - as it usually coincides with traction enhancing tyres and track surface.

I think a H/C or just cam LS2-3 will certainly be a good competitor to a S/C 5.0 from the lights but on the highway the S/C will pull away.
Agreed.:).....At least you haven't said Im going to shit my pants if a new GT pulls up next to me at the lights...phew....

lol

[RED R8]

I hate to say it but you say a LSX has run 11's, what on the 3rd person to tune it when it first came out, but what were the first tunes were doning on the LSX, they were stoked running low 13's hight 12's, no taking away from the LSX motors being a very good motor which has come a long way from where it all started, but seriously dude get out more and you we realise pretty quickly that 11.7 the Miami has run with a tune is just the beginning, a matter of fact I think that time will get smashed tonight, might even see a 10, yes I can hear you guys laughing, but we will see.
Get a year of tuning and running at the strip, these Miami's are going to improve out of sight.
Dont get me wrong i have utmost respect for the Lsx motors, they are a tried and proven motor.
After reading through some of the posts on this thread alot of people need on this forum need to get there head out of the sand and get with the times big time.
I agree with all that as well...like I said the balls now been smashed into Holdens court good to see Ford step up to the plate and re-enter the perf V8 game (in a big way)...Welcome back

[SM1DY]

sort of like comparing an old VT LS1 with it's measly factory detuned 220kw against the later Tickford 220kw strokers. One engine had an extra 100kw or so to go...........the other one far less.


Just a quick FYI, Tickford strokers were 5.6L 250kw. The 220kw you speak of was the old 5.0L.

That is all.

[Ghia351]

Just a quick FYI, Tickford strokers were 5.6L 250kw. The 220kw you speak of was the old 5.0L.

That is all.I actually thought VTII LS1's were around 220-225kw as well.

[SM1DY]

I actually thought VTII LS1's were around 220-225kw as well.

Ford only got the 5.0L to 220kw around 2001-02, before that it started life in the AU 1 as 185kw IIRC and had incremental increase after that.

As for the VT's and other Commodore's, I'm not that well versed.

[rankys_ss]

I actually thought VTII LS1's were around 220-225kw as well.

Yup thats right the VTII ls1's were 220kw, caprices 225kw and HSV's were 255kw

[dawkinsdisciple]

anal retentive i know but;

VTII - 220kw across the board, HSV's 250, C4b (GTS), 300

the holdens and hsv's went up 5kw respectively with VX (C4b stayed the same)

the VY saw the bifurcation of the basic holden range into 235, 245 kw for caprice and the VY-> VYII HSV's saw an increase from 260 to 285

[troytroy]

Cheers for the corrections - but the point is - FPV are now enjoying what Holden enjoyed from 2000-2006ish. A good engine (the rest of the car is arguable) that was more powerful and flexible and had at least 5 years worth of growth path ahead of it.

[Bobman]

Ford only got the 5.0L to 220kw around 2001-02, before that it started life in the AU 1 as 185kw IIRC and had incremental increase after that.

Yeah, the AUII (early 2000-late 2001) were 200kw/420nm. AUIII (late 2001-late 2002) was upgraded to 220kw/435nm and the 5.6 stroker engines in the T3s had 250kw/500nm.

[SM1DY]

Cheers for the corrections - but the point is - FPV are now enjoying what Holden enjoyed from 2000-2006ish. A good engine (the rest of the car is arguable) that was more powerful and flexible and had at least 5 years worth of growth path ahead of it.

Having this new engine capable of being cheaply and quickly upgraded in future models will give FPV the breathing space needed and more importantly the money to work and invest heavily on the dynamics or the car. Whether they do or not is a different question. The car isn't the perfect peice of machinery, but within a 5 year window I imagine it has the time to develop in some of those areas in which it is lacking right now.

[troytroy]

God help the Holden fans if they spend the next couple of years learning to how to fit intercoolers and 10" wide tyres in the FG...................

[BA_XR6_TURBO]

God help the Holden fans if they spend the next couple of years learning to how to fit intercoolers and 10" wide tyres in the FG...................

Ford developed the intercooler as part of the initial R&D, speculation says they have a more powerful model coming out that will use it....it may flow down to the lesser model FPVs in years to come.

Wider rubber is sorely needed that's for sure.

[feistl]

I think theres a little more work to be done to the driveline before adding more power and more grip.

Remember, being factory Ford is saying that the car will survive any form of punishment for up to 3 years/number of kms (not sure their warranty period).

If i purchased a brand new FPV with big tyres and intercooler, went out thrashing it and the gearbox blew up, or the diff died id be wanting it to be fixed under warranty. Its early days, but if there is a driveshaft issues (as some have reported) then that needs to be addressed before adding more power.

The other thing is this engine will have to last ford 5 years... In its current form its already significantly more powerful than any HSV offering, so why would you add more power? Wait till HSV catch up or just add 5-10kw each year. Gives you breathing space...

If they boost it up to like 400kw, what are they going to do next year?

[GODSMACK]

If they boost it up to like 400kw, what are they going to do next year?
Why do anything, Holden/HSV will be playing catchup for years. Either that, or add a extra CD slot in their stacker... Seems HSV owners enjoy fancy electric gismos... :1peek:

[Carby]

Pretty sure you're wrong their again pal. Recent track tests conducted, saw the GT ahead of the GTS as well as the 1/4 mile. There's nothing wrong with loving your brand of car but closing both eyes won't make the truth go away.

Wish they didn't use the LPG models they are probably heavier and I doubt if the LPG is as good as the 98 octane petrol run motor - certainly the 1/4 mile times seem slow for a HSV VE.

[troytroy]

I think theres a little more work to be done to the driveline before adding more power and more grip.

Remember, being factory Ford is saying that the car will survive any form of punishment for up to 3 years/number of kms (not sure their warranty period).

If i purchased a brand new FPV with big tyres and intercooler, went out thrashing it and the gearbox blew up, or the diff died id be wanting it to be fixed under warranty. Its early days, but if there is a driveshaft issues (as some have reported) then that needs to be addressed before adding more power.

The other thing is this engine will have to last ford 5 years... In its current form its already significantly more powerful than any HSV offering, so why would you add more power? Wait till HSV catch up or just add 5-10kw each year. Gives you breathing space...

If they boost it up to like 400kw, what are they going to do next year?

Agree, adding big rubber at the rear adds stress to bushes (and lets face it - Ford already have issues with the rear diff bushes), driveshafts and the diff itself. Probably the reason why they stayed with the 245mm tyres. FPV only have to increase it by 10kw every year or so to keep the fans happy and the resale reasonable for existing buyers.

[troytroy]

Wish they didn't use the LPG models they are probably heavier and I doubt if the LPG is as good as the 98 octane petrol run motor - certainly the 1/4 mile times seem slow for a HSV VE.

Having the press fleet be the two ton versions of the VE for the magazines is an interesting decision by HSV....

When my VY is near full of bodies and holiday crap it feels like a slug - No wonder they're only getting high 13s out of the new VEs lately - they're lard arses. If it's a hot day and the engines suffered from heat soak - then you can see why they're getting a regress in performance that reflects the stats of HSV's of 10 or so years ago.

[steve_t]

Remember, being factory Ford is saying that the car will survive any form of punishment for up to 3 years/number of kms (not sure their warranty period).

If i purchased a brand new FPV with big tyres and intercooler, went out thrashing it and the gearbox blew up, or the diff died id be wanting it to be fixed under warranty. Its early days, but if there is a driveshaft issues (as some have reported) then that needs to be addressed before adding more power.


I'm sure Ford, like Holden, will have a "will not cover abuse" clause in their warranty

[dawkinsdisciple]

Why do anything, Holden/HSV will be playing catchup for years. Either that, or add a extra CD slot in their stacker... Seems HSV owners enjoy fancy electric gismos... :1peek:

mate i just posted in the other what will holden do thread - as cool as this may seem and may help the commode change its image to something sharper, to me it just seems like another thing to do wrong... so many other things they could focus on (that granted, cost a lot more indevelopment)

[Carby]

Having the press fleet be the two ton versions of the VE for the magazines is an interesting decision by HSV....

When my VY is near full of bodies and holiday crap it feels like a slug - No wonder they're only getting high 13s out of the new VEs lately - they're lard arses. If it's a hot day and the engines suffered from heat soak - then you can see why they're getting a regress in performance that reflects the stats of HSV's of 10 or so years ago.

Earlier in the year MOTOR were quoting 13.2 for the Senator and 13.4 for the GTS - they wern't LPG models - but you can draw your own conclusions...........:)

[troytroy]

Earlier in the year MOTOR were quoting 13.2 for the Senator and 13.4 for the GTS - they wern't LPG models - but you can draw your own conclusions...........:)

They're getting heavier and not any quicker. Over ten years the HSV GTS has gained 35kw and 40Nm but also gained 200-260kg. The quality, fittings and overal package have increased but as a performance car - only very marginal gains over ten years. This certainly points to HSV's strategic business plan on refinement and quality over performance.

2000 VTII GTS 1650kg 0-100 5.3 secs, 13.3 1/4 mile. (mid 13's average across most sources)
2010 E2 GTS 1834kg 0-100 5.2 secs, 13.4 1/4 mile
2010 E3 GTS LPI, 1924kg, 0-100 5.6 secs, 13.76 1/4 mile.

note that these latest stats reflect a 0-100 time of most 10 year old 160kw WRX's and 1/4 mile time of the 10+ year old 206kw STi models - so you can see that weight is having a big impact on overall performance - not something most people shelling out over $90-$100,000 drive away, are probably aware of (performance figuratively). Hell, even the HSV website has dropped the kerb weight figures and any 0-100 and 1/4 time from their website for the E3 model......

[RED R8]

I think what ten years have given us for our money is a car that has a much better safety rating, better fuel economy, better handling , much better braking more room and a more comfortable all round car with the same performance figures. I think most manufactures from supercars to general cars really havn't gained a whole lot in outright straight-line performance but the overall package is much better. Top gear did a old vs new comparison a while back and it was very interesting how many 10-12 yearold cars beat their newer models but the emissions safety brakes etc were miles behind.

Oh and much more gadgets.

[Deco28]

Wheels had a SS-V Redline, R8 and GS comparison in latest month.

R8 was quickest 0-100 5.28 seconds by 0.3 seconds to the GS and another .2 seconds to the SS-V. Quarter mile was to the R8 by 0.1 second I think, with the GS having a higher trap speed.

R8 won comparo with SS-V second due to the bare bones nature of the GS.

All cars were manual.

[vr5speedv6]

R8 won comparo with SS-V second due to the bare bones nature of the GS.


Also due to the fords inferior chassis and driving position.

[GODSMACK]

Also due to the fords inferior chassis and driving position.

Have you driven one?

[seedyrom]

Having had BA's, BF's and now FG's, I must admit the driving position was "different" at first, but not "inferior".

After 15 mins I was used to it, and it doesn't feel strange at all.


I'm sure the driving position is what is holding back the majority of our members from owning Ferrari's, Lambo's and Bugatti's.

Yeah, I appreciate the 1001 horsepower, but it really has an inferior driving position to my 11 year old Commodore. :rofl:

[troytroy]

I think what ten years have given us for our money is a car that has a much better safety rating, better fuel economy, better handling , much better braking more room and a more comfortable all round car with the same performance figures. I think most manufactures from supercars to general cars really havn't gained a whole lot in outright straight-line performance but the overall package is much better. Top gear did a old vs new comparison a while back and it was very interesting how many 10-12 yearold cars beat their newer models but the emissions safety brakes etc were miles behind.

Oh and much more gadgets.

..But so has Toyota Corolla and any Kia? Every manufacturer has "forced" to up the ante (WHICH IS GREAT) regarding braking, safety airbags, ABS, TCS etc etc. For a specifically performance orientated brand - I think HSV may have lost their roots, however from a business perspective they're onto something. They know the demographic who buys their product - and that age group just happens to be 40-50 year old males - and they would rather have a new gadget and better refinement than an extra 10kw. It's a shame that HSV doesn't also sell stripped out models - ie like a real CLUB-SPORT that actually removes weight and heavy gadgets - at least they'd maintain some sort of a race heritage based on their actual product.

[troytroy]

Wheels had a SS-V Redline, R8 and GS comparison in latest month.

R8 was quickest 0-100 5.28 seconds by 0.3 seconds to the GS and another .2 seconds to the SS-V. Quarter mile was to the R8 by 0.1 second I think, with the GS having a higher trap speed.

R8 won comparo with SS-V second due to the bare bones nature of the GS.

All cars were manual.

So the $67,900 car beat the $56, 990 one..............:goodjob: Price wise - and lets face it 99.9999999% people buy a car principally on price as the foremost factor in the decision, the natural competitor is the SSV which is near on the same money - ie someone with 56k burning a hole in their pocket could seriously look at both cars and not have cost as a factor.

I reckon with 9k difference I would buy a GS - get some new 10" wheels at the back - some bigger brakes and a tune. Which funnily enough can make the Clubsport R8 look like decent value..... because it comes with most of that already.

[RED R8]

..But so has Toyota Corolla and any Kia? Every manufacturer has "forced" to up the ante (WHICH IS GREAT) regarding braking, safety airbags, ABS, TCS etc etc. For a specifically performance orientated brand - I think HSV may have lost their roots, however from a business perspective they're onto something. They know the demographic who buys their product - and that age group just happens to be 40-50 year old males - and they would rather have a new gadget and better refinement than an extra 10kw. It's a shame that HSV doesn't also sell stripped out models - ie like a real CLUB-SPORT that actually removes weight and heavy gadgets - at least they'd maintain some sort of a race heritage based on their actual product.

I agree alot of 40-50 year olds buy them for a resonably refined V8 but alot of people myself included see the car as a great platform for me to Finnish off. I added the extra 170rwhp and made it a damn good package the brakes handleing styling etc were all done it just needed the extra power it deserves. I would also love to see a weight reduced true club spec model but doubt we will ever see it, it's only the likes of GT3's and other top shelfers that seem to offer true racers (pity really) although cars like the new GTR R35 show you can have it all but it comes at a price.

[vr5speedv6]

Have you driven one?


No, only sat in one at a Holden dealer. And it was pretty much as described in the wheels article. Ergonomically, it's a big fail IMO.

[GODSMACK]

No, only sat in one at a Holden dealer. And it was pretty much as described in the wheels article. Ergonomically, it's a big fail IMO.

Awesome review, so it has a inferior chassis based on you siting in the drivers seat...

:goodjob:

[RED R8]

Awesome review, so it has a inferior chassis based on you siting in the drivers seat...

:goodjob:

It's OK for people to just not like your beloved fords IT'S ok. I didn't like them ergonomically either when I sat in one back in 2007 when deciding on a new car. It didn't do enough for me to want to go the next step and drive it.

[GODSMACK]

It's OK for people to just not like your beloved fords IT'S ok. I didn't like them ergonomically either when I sat in one back in 2007 when deciding on a new car. It didn't do enough for me to want to go the next step and drive it.

I agree, but claiming it has an inferrior chassis when you havent taken it for a drive is a bit rich.

[vr5speedv6]

Awesome review, so it has a inferior chassis based on you siting in the drivers seat...

:goodjob:

Mate you're not on the right forum if you can't handle a little ford criticism!
And the the inferior chassis remark is based on what I've read in the latest Wheels review.
It's to be expected to considering it's basically an AU platform.
It still looks like an AU to me as well:spew:

[Kuzman89]

I was talking to a GS owner across the road from work today. Must be a succesful company because the owner owns a W427 and TT BMW of some sort. Anyway he took me for a spin and I was quite impressed, he commented how its got plenty of balls but no grace and I quote "thats how a muscle car should be".
Biggest complaints from him was it looks to average (black with gray decals) and that the chasis could barely handle the power.

I thought it was phenominal however, and I'd be clueless as to HSV or FPV if I had the money haha.

[GODSMACK]

Mate you're not on the right forum if you can't handle a little ford criticism!
And the the inferior chassis remark is based on what I've read in the latest Wheels review.
It's to be expected to considering it's basically an AU platform.
It still looks like an AU to me as well:spew:

Im a proud owner of a Holden, however im mature enough to ackowledge when a competitor has a good product, and ill refrain from making assumptions until ive actually driven one.
If you read it in Wheels magazine, then it must be true..

[vr5speedv6]

Im a proud owner of a Holden, however im mature enough to ackowledge when a competitor has a good product, and ill refrain from making assumptions until ive actually driven one.
If you read it in Wheels magazine, then it must be true..

So how can you acknowledge it's a good product if you haven't driven it?:confused:

[GODSMACK]

So how can you acknowledge it's a good product if you haven't driven it?:confused:

Based on a few members and sponsors who have actualy driven it, its a great package... Ive sat in one and been for a spin (passenger), and i didn't mind the interior at all, and believe me, performance isnt an issue. The thing pulls from the get go.

Thats very different to someone critisizing the chassis based on neither having driven, nor being driven in one..

Having sat in one, how did you find the brakes?

[vr5speedv6]

Based on a few members and sponsors who have actualy driven it, its a great package... Ive sat in one and been for a spin (passenger), and i didn't mind the interior at all, and believe me, performance isnt an issue. The thing pulls from the get go.

Thats very different to someone critisizing the chassis based on neither having driven, nor being driven in one..

Having sat in one, how did you find the brakes?

Jeez mate I think you're in love with this new ford, as nobody (including motoring journalists) should be allowed to fault it!!
And yes the brakes on the GS are also shite.

[Deco28]

I agree, but claiming it has an inferrior chassis when you havent taken it for a drive is a bit rich.

Dude learn to read. He said the article said it had an inferior chassis and driving position you retard.

[vr5speedv6]

Dude learn to read. He said the article said it had an inferior chassis and driving position you retard.

There's not much time for reading in the porn capital:rofl:

[lyle]

I agree... its got me stuffed why they bother comparing different cars with different trans for starters than proclaiming the slowest car the winner in a performance based test!!!

they use the best trans available, the ford auto is better than the manual, the holden manual is better than the holden auto, if they wanna get the fastest times they can theyll use the best setup available

[lyle]

I'm sure Ford, like Holden, will have a "will not cover abuse" clause in their warranty

i got 3 diffs during warranty period in my BA XR8 ute, they tried the old speel we have plugged the computer in and see youve hit the limiter 967 times and done 19 6000 rpm 2nd gear clutch dumps BLAH BLAH BLAH and tried to make me pay for the diff and cancel my remaining warranty, one call to consumer affairs and a letter to the dealer and i was sweet. in fords wording and brochures and marketing it claimed the XR8 as a SPORTY ute with so much power with SPORTY 6 speed manual gearbox and SPORY 17 or 18 inch SPORTY wheels, the letter went something along the lines of "the owner of the car was driving it in a "sporty" manner because the word sport and power were used 76 times in the sales brochure, if the owner was not intending to drive in a "sporty" manner he would have bought a 6 cylinder falcon ute or a focus. if Ford motor company cannot supply a "sport inspired" car that can be handled in a sporty driving fashion consumer affairs will take this matter further..... anyway you get the idea of where it all went from here

[Uwish]

Lyle, I have had 2 diffs in my HSV, as well as a bell housing drive shafts and full clutch kit.
Doesn't matter which brand, you will have these issues.
FFS I have seen an M5 engine pop. ( a v8 one )
Also different dealers handle the matters in different ways. My HSV dealer was the Best.
Hunter Holden Top Ryde. Some not so good.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

well ive had an engine go after pissing oil, a diff, 2 clutches and a cooler...and thats the big stuff......no more R8s for me thanks. The dealer was bearable tho:bawl:

[steveholb]

well i guess its early days now but im sure as the sun rises tomorrow that hsv will have something up their sleeve soon enough.anyway,who cares that ford had to fit a supercharger to beat hsv in the horsepower game,plenty of blown ls3s making heaps more power .its not over by a long way....:)

[Uwish]

well i guess its early days now but im sure as the sun rises tomorrow that hsv will have something up their sleeve soon enough.anyway,who cares that ford had to fit a supercharger to beat hsv in the horsepower game,plenty of blown ls3s making heaps more power .its not over by a long way....:)

Its a better engine than the ls3 in n/a form.
Read the US car forums. The mustang out performs the Camaro.

[Kuzman89]

Its a better engine than the ls3 in n/a form.
Read the US car forums. The mustang out performs the Camaro.

wouldn't happen to be a weight disadvantage?

pretty sure they are neck and neck in mustang and camaro form anyway.

[mrtockley]

well i guess its early days now but im sure as the sun rises tomorrow that hsv will have something up their sleeve soon enough.anyway,who cares that ford had to fit a supercharger to beat hsv in the horsepower game,plenty of blown ls3s making heaps more power .its not over by a long way....:)

Yeah if you're happy to drop $15 - $20 grand to get the bigger number.. I wonder how the Miami will respond to $20 large worth of mods ? :confused:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

yes id be interested in seeing what would happen if FPV lifted there prices to match our HSV ones and added some bling and tyres and suspension. With that engine im sure there will be many many tears flowing red.

[ti0350]

Its a better engine than the ls3 in n/a form.
Read the US car forums. The mustang out performs the Camaro.

Thats funny been reading a lot of comparisons lately between the 2 and I would to say it's pretty line ball some say the Camaro performs better others say the mustang does.. It is very close though I think what makes the difference in the end is the fact the mustang is 120kg lighter and is geared higher 3.73 vs 3.42.. Both awesome cars same as the FPV's and HSV's the miami engine is something FPV and Ford needed..
What it means for us Holden fans is that HSV and Holden can't rest on their Laurels anymore as the opposition now have a V8 that they can compete with..

[def]

And to think that KPM how developed a tune for the GS to have 430KW at the engine for a mere $1k... amazing BFYB!

[701let]

yes id be interested in seeing what would happen if FPV lifted there prices to match our HSV ones and added some bling and tyres and suspension. With that engine im sure there will be many many tears flowing red.

What if they even added a bling chassis?? The red tears would flow then...

[steveholb]

lol,and if hsv release a supercharged lsx?no tears from this corner hahahaha:rofl:

[GODSMACK]

lol,and if hsv release a supercharged lsx?


How much $$?

[oranpark_addict]

lol,and if hsv release a supercharged lsx?no tears from this corner hahahaha:rofl:

Yep, so a supercharger would be an extra 10000 on top of the current purchase price let alone the price difference from an ls3 to an LSX in these cars:confused:

A GTS would cost as much as a W427 lol

[steveholb]

Yep, so a supercharger would be an extra 10000 on top of the current purchase price let alone the price difference from an ls3 to an LSX in these cars:confused:

A GTS would cost as much as a W427 lol

yes,but who cares about the cost,what im saying is if hsv release a supercharged model,would the ford supercharged v8 be the king then?im thinking no,it wouldnt be as forced 6.2 or more will be easily a better motor,just look at what walkinshaw and most other places are turning out.:)

[Deco28]

f HSV added a supercharger, they could absorb most of the cost with higher production then a regular punter. Probs only add a few k to the cost.

[Evman]

If Holden made a successful takeover bid of the VW Group they'd be the one of the largest vehicle manufacturing company in the world.

If...

[mrtockley]

If Holden made a successful takeover bid of the VW Group they'd be the one of the largest vehicle manufacturing company in the world.

If...

Hehe well said.

[Deco28]

If Holden made a successful takeover bid of the VW Group they'd be the one of the largest vehicle manufacturing company in the world.

If...

I heard it's on the cards :jester:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

but surely if they keep on lifting the prices people are going to start speaking up more...its allready very ify. I just think FPV are missing the chance with there new engine to add some goodies to match the HSVs in other areas...and damn theyd still probably have the wood on price.:bawl: