Upgrading my headers/cats need sugestions

[kevin101]

I already have a 2.5 twin from the cats with front and rear mufflers.

I want a really nice grunt which will let off a bit of a crackle after hitting the high revs, but I'm new to this and don't know what brand would be best.

I've been told try y's are great for street use and low end torque.

Also does it sound better if i have the front or rear muffler removed?

I really don't have much of an idea most videos on youtube I see say extractors and high flow cats but not really if they have kept the muflers the size of the pipes etc.

any help would be great thanks guys.

[HEKYEH]

:doh:

What have you found on here from doing your own searching?

[kevin101]

thats just it everyone has their own opinion on exhausts saying to have no rear muffler or some say keep it and replace the front ones with a hotdog. Than theres the debate mostly about DiFlippo or Pacemakers.

If theres a video link anyone has to show a nice note that actually says what system its running would be great.

I hate when you get a vid with the camera sitting at the exaust tip makes no sense like yeah its loud but what does it sound liek really..

[boggers007]

my 2.5inch twin complete X-force exhaust basically did what u are wanting. not to sure if they were tri y's etc but i do know they were 1 5/8. But if i had my time over again id probs go with pacemaker 1 3/4

[Wonky]

What car? VE or VT - VZ as exhausts and the sounds they make are totally different!

As you've found by searching, opinions are like ar$eholes because everyone has one and they're often radically different because what one person likes another person dislikes............ :(

Cameras and speakers can give a poor reproduction of the actual sound, so the only way to know for sure is to hear some in person, which I admit may be difficult where you are.

That said, Di Filippo and Pacemaker combined with Sureflo's Ballistic Racing cats can be pretty well relied on to give a great sound. I'm also :confused: because the heading suggests you are looking for headers/cats but then you open a whole new can of worms by talking about changes to your catback too ...... :eek:

[kevin101]

That said, Di Filippo and Pacemaker combined with Sureflo's Ballistic Racing cats can be pretty well relied on to give a great sound. I'm also :confused: because the heading suggests you are looking for headers/cats but then you open a whole new can of worms by talking about changes to your catback too ...... :eek:

It's a VX SS, I will probably leave the catback as it is and see how it sounds, although I thought I would just throw it in there instead of opening another thread in a couple of weeks if I feel the need to change it.

Thanks for the info on the cats i'll make sure to put them into the list now I just have to decide on the extractors and what size.

I might try to sus out some SS's around town and ask the owners what they have running because I have heard a few nice ones going around!

[255-LS1]

DF 1 7/8 headers and hiflow cats will give you the best sound but may not be the best for ur application. is the car manual or auto? mods planned for future?

can see this thread gettign shut down lol

[kevin101]

DF 1 7/8 headers and hiflow cats will give you the best sound but may not be the best for ur application. is the car manual or auto? mods planned for future?

can see this thread gettign shut down lol

the future upgrades are the headers/cats than a tune.

The cars an auto if it really makes a big difference wish it was a manual but at the time I purchased it I couldn't find a decent manual around town.

Not sure what you mean by "can see this thread gettign shut down lol"
this is a forum right? and I have only started a thread talking about my next car mod and simply asking for some ideas / opinions. Having such a variety of Brands avaliable I think for anyone that hasn't been playing with cars much before should be entitled to ask for some help.

thanks for the input on a set of headers much appretiated I've noted it down to do some research on them.

[BennyMac]

1 3/4 DF Headers > Hiflo cats > 2 1/2 S/S DF exhaust FTW
End of story :)

[ebbett21]

1 3/4 DF Headers > Hiflo cats > 2 1/2 S/S DF exhaust FTW
End of story :)

arrrg nah, had df and way overrated i went to xforce from DF. A DF is quiet as a remus

[BennyMac]

arrrg nah, had df and way overrated i went to xforce from DF. A DF is quiet as a remus

:rofl:

Yep, i changed to a VT SS cat back as the DF system was sooooo quiet......:confused:

DF make the best off the shelf system for VT-VZ hands down.
X-Force is plain shit. Made in China and you get what u pay for.

If you can afford DF then go for it as it will just about last longer than the car.
Or chuck a piece of cheap shit like X-Force on and see how you go......

[ebbett21]

:rofl:

Yep, i changed to a VT SS cat back as the DF system was sooooo quiet......:confused:

DF make the best off the shelf system for VT-VZ hands down.
X-Force is plain shit. Made in China and you get what u pay for.

If you can afford DF then go for it as it will just about last longer than the car.
Or chuck a piece of cheap shit like X-Force on and see how you go......

When you get tired of your quiet DF system, i think you should buy a xforce, sound great like a V8 supercar with a cam, make plenty of power, quaility workmanship at affordable prices.

[Wonky]

Will Benny rise to the bait? :lol:

[BennyMac]

When you get tired of your quiet DF system, i think you should buy a xforce, sound great like a V8 supercar with a cam, make plenty of power, quaility workmanship at affordable prices.

My DF system is exactly how i like it to sound.
Screams when you take off but it can also be as quiet as a mouse when i want it to be.
Also, NO DRONE!
Man id hate to have a car that SOUNDS like a V8 supercar but is slow as shit.
If it sounds so good then why dont you put a supercar bodykit on it and nobody will know the difference.
:rofl: :jerk:

[ebbett21]

My DF system is exactly how i like it to sound.
Screams when you take off but it can also be as quiet as a mouse when i want it to be.
Also, NO DRONE!
Man id hate to have a car that SOUNDS like a V8 supercar but is slow as shit.
If it sounds so good then why dont you put a supercar bodykit on it and nobody will know the difference.
:rofl: :jerk:

Your come across as abit imature, bagging systems like xforce you have absolutely no clue about, let me guess you have one LS1 and one exhaust a big old diffillipo and because its called diffillipo and costs the most, it sounds the best.

Thats right , you had to cut the middle mufflers out of a diffillipo system to get abit of sound out of it did'nt you....

Yea my xforce twin 3'' is quiet as a mouse too, when i want it to be, but your one would be quiet as a mouse 24/7

[BLACK 346]

This is funny as hell. I would skip both x-force and Diffillipo for the VT-VZ platform, neither would satisfy me for one reason or another. The main thing though as an owner is whether you are satisfied with the note and volume of the exhaust system that you have in place :)

[BennyMac]

Your come across as abit imature, bagging systems like xforce you have absolutely no clue about, let me guess you have one LS1 and one exhaust a big old diffillipo and because its called diffillipo and costs the most, it sounds the best.

Thats right , you had to cut the middle mufflers out of a diffillipo system to get abit of sound out of it did'nt you....

Yea my xforce twin 3'' is quiet as a mouse too, when i want it to be, but your one would be quiet as a mouse 24/7

How did you know that i cut the middle mufflers out?
In fact the only thing that is left on my whole DF system is the tips and im even thinking about swapping them over.........

YouTube - CAMMED HSV VX II CLUBSPORT R8 FULL DI FILIPPO EXHAUST 272RWKW


The same system.....

YouTube - LS1 VZ EXHAUST


Hows that kitchen sink grade X-Force going?

[wikky]

^^^ Both really poor quality sound in the vids. You couldn't recommend an exhaust using those.

[BLACK 346]

Hows that kitchen sink grade X-Force going?

Now your sounding like you have no idea lol. Most kitchen sinks I have seen over the years last longer than the house they reside in.

[BLACK 346]

^^^ Both really poor quality sound in the vids. You couldn't recommend an exhaust using those.

Agreed, both vids had some noise, but you could not hear any decent note, I am sure they would have sounded better in real life though.

[255-LS1]

Now your sounding like you have no idea lol. Most kitchen sinks I have seen over the years last longer than the house they reside in.

LOL so true!!!

not the greatest analogy but anyway.

DF gets my tip. Really enjoy mine, sounds tough, refined, deep, no bark raspy carry on, no trouble from the boys in blue.

annddd mate has full dual 3" DF on his ve and got to say it sounds farking phat. and guess what it replaced.... xforce... aw shit.

exhausts are personal opinions. get over it guys lol

[BLACK 346]

LOL so true!!!

not the greatest analogy but anyway.

DF gets my tip. Really enjoy mine, sounds tough, refined, deep, no bark raspy carry on, no trouble from the boys in blue.

annddd mate has full dual 3" DF on his ve and got to say it sounds farking phat. and guess what it replaced.... xforce... aw shit.

exhausts are personal opinions. get over it guys lol

lol, no probably not he greatest analogy, but he was talking quality :)

VE is a whole different kettle of fish, have not heard a VE with DF on it, have heard a VE with X-Force though, lets just say :spew:

[Wonky]

You're right that VE and VT-VZ exhausts are a whole different kettle of fish. From what I've heard DF and Sureflo 3.5" sound good on VT-VZ but I haven't heard an XFarce on one. I've heard one full 3" DF on a VE and it sounded great at idle and on the dyno but strangely odd on the road (all of us who heard it agreed).

I have been in a VE ute with XFarce 2.5" full system and it sounded good from the inside - absolutely no drone and quiet as a mouse until it was floored. I know others with 2.5" XFarce on their VEs and they apparently drone like the world is ending.

For VE my KPM 3" is :drool: :D

[BennyMac]

Well im glad i took a forum sponsors advice and went DF and while i have the VZ will never look back :dancenana:
Those who cant afford DF, they bag it.....NEXT :)

[BLACK 346]

Well im glad i took a forum sponsors advice and went DF and while i have the VZ will never look back :dancenana:
Those who cant afford DF, they bag it.....NEXT :)

I think their is lot more to it than that, for some of us at least. I for one have spent a lot more than the cost of a Diffilippo getting the right note. Like I said previously though, if you are happy with yours then that is all that matters is it not? Oh, and I like to make my own mind up, rather than rely on someone else to tell me what is good ;)

[RARASV8]

just to give you an idea:1peek:

1 3/4 pacies hi flow cats and 2.5 inch early 2003 ish redback in mild steel, but with centre mufflers removed and replaced with hotdogs (centre mufflers rusted)

http://www.youtube.com/user/RARASV8?feature=mhum#p/a/u/2/UJDaYQyTgqM

Garry

ps it can be loud:rofl:

[BLACK 346]

You're right that VE and VT-VZ exhausts are a whole different kettle of fish. From what I've heard DF and Sureflo 3.5" sound good on VT-VZ but I haven't heard an XFarce on one. I've heard one full 3" DF on a VE and it sounded great at idle and on the dyno but strangely odd on the road (all of us who heard it agreed).

I have been in a VE ute with XFarce 2.5" full system and it sounded good from the inside - absolutely no drone and quiet as a mouse until it was floored. I know others with 2.5" XFarce on their VEs and they apparently drone like the world is ending.

For VE my KPM 3" is :drool: :D

Wonky, I notice you keep calling it X-Farce? Have you had a bad experience with their product? Agree with you on the KPM on the VE Series, they sound pretty damn good I reckon. Only heard one on a non cammed VE, but would only imagine they would sound better on a cammed car, and even better with H/C.

[BLACK 346]

just to give you an idea:1peek:

1 3/4 pacies hi flow cats and 2.5 inch early 2003 ish redback in mild steel, but with centre mufflers removed and replaced with hotdogs (centre mufflers rusted)

http://www.youtube.com/user/RARASV8?feature=mhum#p/a/u/2/UJDaYQyTgqM

Garry

ps it can be loud:rofl:

That was my second cat back, had the same brand but 2 1/4 into 3 inch single as my first. As a cheap upgrade from the VT2 stocker they were the ducks guts back in the day :)

[v8dude78]

A lot of discussion on here seems to revolve around Diffilippo or pacemaker.

Does anyone have H&M ?

I have 1 5/8 H&M S/S tri-y's and the larger HSV cats and 2 1/2 inch redback cat back system and love the sound of it and have been told on numerous times how good it sounds.

Has a nice deep burble on idol, not to loud with normal driving, and has an awesome sound on WOT. Also NO drone what so ever :)

And its good for 230 RWKW's
Car is a series 2 VX Calais 5.7 with mafless tune

[kevin101]

I've been leaning towards tri Y design not sure if I'm correct but from what I have read they are better for street driving low to mid range power.

But about the size and brand I'm still throwing it up in the air and watching youtube videos hasn't helped much, although since I have a sub connected to my pc it makes it a lot easier to hear the exhaust.

[gavlotic]

+1 for HM headers

I've got the 1 7/8" 4into 1's, ballistic cats + supercat cat back.
sounds verrrrry good.

dunno bout power it's a mailorder with alloy otr guess we'll find out at a dyno day ;-)

cheers,

Gav

[MrHSV318]

I've been leaning towards tri Y design not sure if I'm correct but from what I have read they are better for street driving low to mid range power.

But about the size and brand I'm still throwing it up in the air and watching youtube videos hasn't helped much, although since I have a sub connected to my pc it makes it a lot easier to hear the exhaust.

Sounds right to me. One other thing to consider is if you have your car lowered now or plan to in the future most people with the DF long tube 4>1's will tell you they scrape on all speed humps and steep drive ways. Think its the cats that catch. Ive got sureflo short 4>1's and there 100 cell high flo cats and they made alot of difference connected up to my 2.5 cat back . Ive since gone to there 3.5 inch cat back and i sounds great. Just another opinion.:)

[BLACK 346]

I've been leaning towards tri Y design not sure if I'm correct but from what I have read they are better for street driving low to mid range power.

But about the size and brand I'm still throwing it up in the air and watching youtube videos hasn't helped much, although since I have a sub connected to my pc it makes it a lot easier to hear the exhaust.

I went from 1 5/8 Tri-y to 1 3/4 4-1 after the cam went in. I personally like the note the 4-1's produce over the Tri-y's. I noticed zero difference on the road power wise after the change, that may have been different on a bolt on car though.

[kevin101]

I went from 1 5/8 Tri-y to 1 3/4 4-1 after the cam went in. I personally like the note the 4-1's produce over the Tri-y's. I noticed zero difference on the road power wise after the change, that may have been different on a bolt on car though.

Thats a nice thing to take note of I'm not really looking to squeeze every rwkw from it I just want a nice note to compliment my SS and a better driving expirience. I have been told before that the 4-1's can sound a lot better over tri-y's.

[255-LS1]

yes they do mate the 4>1 long tubes sound the goods. deep beaty rumble to them.

the only thing you may notice on a auto car is a drop in torque, but if you get it tuned i suspect you wouldn't know or miss the difference between the two (try ys) where as u will love the note every time u hit the get with the 4>1s

if ur ever in melbs u can have a listen to mine if u like.

[kevin101]

yes they do mate the 4>1 long tubes sound the goods. deep beaty rumble to them.

the only thing you may notice on a auto car is a drop in torque, but if you get it tuned i suspect you wouldn't know or miss the difference between the two (try ys) where as u will love the note every time u hit the get with the 4>1s

if ur ever in melbs u can have a listen to mine if u like.

Thanks for the offer but I don't really get down there often :(

was just looking at the HM site and found these

http://www.hmheaders.com.au/index.php?q=213.html

They only have stuby type ones listed on their site for my VX SS.

Guess I might have to go something different to get some longer tubes.

[v8dude78]

the ones i have are HMM101SS search their site useing that part number

[kevin101]

the ones i have are HMM101SS search their site useing that part number

I did the search came up with nothing but I did find these HM101SS (tri=y's)

are these the ones you have?

[kevin101]

Was just looking around for cats and found ones like these on ebay,

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-5-High-Flow-Cat-BOKKA-Metal-Falcon-AU-BA-XR6-XR8-GT-/330513846845?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf429123d

are these like a generic type cat that arn't very good quality which I should stay away from?

[v8dude78]

I did the search came up with nothing but I did find these HM101SS (tri=y's)

are these the ones you have?

Yep those are the ones don't know about the cats though never heard of them

[BLACKVE]

Was just looking around for cats and found ones like these on ebay,

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-5-High-Flow-Cat-BOKKA-Metal-Falcon-AU-BA-XR6-XR8-GT-/330513846845?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf429123d

are these like a generic type cat that arn't very good quality which I should stay away from?

Exhausts can be frustrating:vpo: i just went from standard headers with highflow cats and 2 1/2 redback system on my cammed SV8(sounded nice no drone and quite burble) to 4>1's and 3" cats same as above and car has a nice note but a bit raspy sound now, lost the deep sound:bawl: These cats seemed fine to me i got 2 in 3" for $250.

[VendeTTR]

My brother has these on his car with 1 7/8 3" cats and twin 2.5" catback and sounds even better with the cats, ill get some for mine eventually.

[BennyMac]

Di Filippo and Pacemaker both make a good 4>1 header.
If you want it to last, make sure its made from 409 grade steel.
Also, if you are going to put headers on then get a custom dyno tune.
This should see you in the 300+FWKW.

Good-luck.

[Wonky]

Wonky, I notice you keep calling it X-Farce? Have you had a bad experience with their product?

Not me personally but I know quite a few people who've had them on VEs and most have found they start falling apart after 12 - 18 months. Sound is very subjective but most people describe them as raspy.

My son-in-law who lives on the same property as us has identical Pacemaker 1 7/8" headers and Ballistic cats to me but has 3" XF instead of my 3" KPM catback. Even from the other end of the house where they're always parked next to each other it is very easy to tell which car is starting as his XF souinds hollow compared to mine, even before it started falling apart which it now is. He wants a KPM next!! :yup:

[gavlotic]

Guys,

The HM headers site don't have everything there prob better to contact the rep used to be Ben I think it's someone else now.

Here's some of the newer part numbers anyway.

1 7/8" 4 into 1's, 2 3/4" outlet HM123SS
1 3/4" tri-ys, 2 3/4" outlet HM117SS
I heard they have a 1 3/4" 4 into 1's don't know the part # I heard it mentioned in one of their past specials.

For cats go straight to ballistics from Sureflo or some other known brand.

Greg,

you should get a pair ;-).

cheers,

Gav

[Wonky]

I did the search came up with nothing but I did find these HM101SS (tri=y's)

are these the ones you have?

Don't make the mistake I did on my VZ SS (before I found this forum) and get the HM headers with small collecters as is made it a) messy and b) fairly pointless putting decent cats on.


Was just looking around for cats and found ones like these on ebay,

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-5-High-Flow-Cat-BOKKA-Metal-Falcon-AU-BA-XR6-XR8-GT-/330513846845?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf429123d

are these like a generic type cat that arn't very good quality which I should stay away from?

May cost you a little more but I'd definitely look into Sureflo's Ballistic 100cpsi racing cats. I know of lots of guys who have them on stock to very powerful engines and have not yet heard of one failure. My son-in-law has done well over 40,000km with them on his 325rwkw h/c VE.

[kevin101]

Guys,

The HM headers site don't have everything there prob better to contact the rep used to be Ben I think it's someone else now.

Here's some of the newer part numbers anyway.

1 7/8" 4 into 1's, 2 3/4" outlet HM123SS
1 3/4" tri-ys, 2 3/4" outlet HM117SS
I heard they have a 1 3/4" 4 into 1's don't know the part # I heard it mentioned in one of their past specials.

For cats go straight to ballistics from Sureflo or some other known brand.

Greg,

you should get a pair ;-).

cheers,

Gav

Thanks heaps for the info, I want to try to get it right the first time lol, and not have to go back and change something that just doesn't sound right.

[Bingo BIlly]

if you want a rubbish sound cut out muffler and chop and change them with hotdogs etc... Thats what ruins sound.

Either buy an xforce or defillip exhaust and leave it as it is. Both sound good but not when chopped up.

Get 4-1 long tube headers, 200 or 100 cell cats and leave full exhaust, it will sound nice.

Never ever ever chop mufflers out and swap em over, just ruins the entire system.

[kevin101]

if you want a rubbish sound cut out muffler and chop and change them with hotdogs etc... Thats what ruins sound.

Either buy an xforce or defillip exhaust and leave it as it is. Both sound good but not when chopped up.

Get 4-1 long tube headers, 200 or 100 cell cats and leave full exhaust, it will sound nice.

Never ever ever chop mufflers out and swap em over, just ruins the entire system.

I like the way you put it simple and blunt :D

[gavlotic]

Thanks heaps for the info, I want to try to get it right the first time lol, and not have to go back and change something that just doesn't sound right.

no worries. imo u can't go wrong with either 4into1's or tri-ys with hi flow cats.
cat back is a harder one - I don't mind the redback or supercat - we have those on our cars. Im not a fan of xforce. Im with Billy though - better off choosing a system and at the most changing the rear muffler if need be - though most sound pretty good as is.
Another cat back worth looking at would be sureflo's dual 2 1/2" as well kind of middle of the road btw redback and DF.

cheers,

Gav

[kevin101]

no worries. imo u can't go wrong with either 4into1's or tri-ys with hi flow cats.
cat back is a harder one - I don't mind the redback or supercat - we have those on our cars. Im not a fan of xforce. Im with Billy though - better off choosing a system and at the most changing the rear muffler if need be - though most sound pretty good as is.
Another cat back worth looking at would be sureflo's dual 2 1/2" as well kind of middle of the road btw redback and DF.

cheers,

Gav

I currently have Supercat Back on so I'm hoping it will be a great note.

[kevin101]

So I have decided that since I'm not looking for every tiny rwkw and I want to get a tune earlier also since I'm only just starting on mods I just want to keep it on a budget, that I might try to grab a cheaper pair of headers, I'm considering a 2nd hand pair that are in good condition, however I was browsing the web and found these:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Pacemakers-Holden-VX-SS-Gen-3-Extractors-vt-vu-/150552481524?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230da08ef4

and these:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LS1-Holden-Extractors-Commodore-SS-HSV-VT-VX-VY-VZ-LS2-/140503781261?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b6ad8f8d

Now yes I know the pacemakers are looking a bit weathered but I know I wont be showing my car off and I can give them a tidy / Respray if needed, and for the other headers I have no idea about the specs I have asked the seller to provide a little bit more detail about them.

anythoughts about the "unknown" ones?

I will be buying a OTR intake and a mail order tune after the headers/cats

[ebbett21]

Maybe worth having alook at hurricane headers and exhaust. They are good product and price, give liverpool exhausts a call (02) 9602-3111 they make them i believe.

[kevin101]

Maybe worth having alook at hurricane headers and exhaust. They are good product and price, give liverpool exhausts a call (02) 9602-3111 they make them i believe.

Thanks Mate.

[Wonky]

I'm considering a 2nd hand pair that are in good condition, however I was browsing the web and found these:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Pacemakers-Holden-VX-SS-Gen-3-Extractors-vt-vu-/150552481524?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230da08ef4

Now yes I know the pacemakers are looking a bit weathered but I know I wont be showing my car off and I can give them a tidy / Respray if needed

The Pacemakers eBay ad says retail $635 which means if you hunt around I'm sure you'll get a better price. From the few I've seen come off cars I'd judge by the rust that they've been on a car for 2 years or more, though I could be wrong. Even if you really only wanted 1 5/8" (most people go 1 3/4") to my mind a saving of less than 30% on full retail is just not worth it when you don't really know how much the metal has thinned. Far better IMHO to get a brand new set (most likely for under $600) with warranty!