375KW GT-H Test mule spotted in Sweden.

[4VMan]

Its coming....


http://www.caradvice.com.au/100470/fpv-testing-intercooled-supercharged-gt/

[Phizzle]

Hopefully lights the rocket up HSV's collective butts!!

[SM1DY]

:dancenana::dancenana::dancenana:

[Steve-LS2]

Time for HSV to get the LSA ready....

[The-V8-Power]

This is interesting to say the least.
The side mounted intercooler seems to mean that no foglights or anything will be in place. However that is little value on a hi-po car but I do wonder two things.

Firstly, will this be putting out more than 375kW? Considering that the current 335 GT puts out about 345-350 at the flywheel in most cases.

Secondly, will they use wider rear tyres since this is the main factor limiting the current one along with the chassis which might need some reworking.

[hsv-105]

I put a deposit down on a new ' GT HO ' before X-mas.

Dealer wouldn't deny nor confirm but was happy to take a deposit
and mine was the third contract they had written up for one.

Should be good to watch the story unfold.

[4VMan]

I put a deposit down on a new ' GT HO ' before X-mas.

Dealer wouldn't deny nor confirm but was happy to take a deposit
and mine was the third contract they had written up for one.

Should be good to watch the story unfold.

Dealers will take a deposit for anything, a Friend and i placed a deposit for a new "GT-HO" back in 2005..... it never eventuated so they refunded the money.

[Steve-LS2]

Dealers will take a deposit for anything, a Friend and i placed a deposit for a new "GT-HO" back in 2005..... it never eventuated so they refunded the money.

with interest??......

[hsv-105]

Dealers will take a deposit for anything, a Friend and i placed a deposit for a new "GT-HO" back in 2005..... it never eventuated so they refunded the money.

I do realise that mate :goodjob:

[bouka]

Hmmmmmm....

Is it really coming?

I wouldnt be going to Melbourne Motor Show wanting to see this car.

Just my opinion of course.

[daoutlawz]

WTF are they doing in Sweden? :O

[SM1DY]

WTF are they doing in Sweden? :O

Sweden is the place to go for manufactuers from all countries to conduct their cold weather testing. There was a thing on the discovery channel about it, some very intense conditions up there.

[macca_779]

Sweden is the place to go for manufactuers from all countries to conduct their cold weather testing. There was a thing on the discovery channel about it, some very intense conditions up there.

If I see one doing Hot Weather testing up here I'm going to drive him off the road and take it off his hands.. HOT car, I want one.

[KAL SPL]

Sweden is a long way to be towed home from !

[macca_779]

Sweden is a long way to be towed home from !

At least it got there.

[steve_t]

What would the advantages be of twin side mounted intercoolers? Wouldn't the total plumbing be a lot longer and more expensive to manufacture? Isn't the centre of the front bar the area with the highest air pressure? Interesting

[KAL SPL]

Cooling would be W2A I assume , meaning its just water pipes rnning to the radiator , wouldnt make much difference for length.

[macca_779]

What would the advantages be of twin side mounted intercoolers? Wouldn't the total plumbing be a lot longer and more expensive to manufacture? Isn't the centre of the front bar the area with the highest air pressure? Interesting

They may have found the sides are the best place to fit them so as to not compromise any looses in the other heat exchangers. As for cost. Its only rubber hose mate being air to water. Pressure is not the most important aspect. CFM is. And flow may actually be higher on the sides pending the outlet make up.

[toey]

If I see one doing Hot Weather testing up here I'm going to drive him off the road and take it off his hands.. HOT car, I want one.

ill have to keep an eye out to as we get heaps of test vehicals here. saw 3 hyundi's last week

[v8dude78]

Is it a sad day when a Holden man through and through would buy one of these over a new HSV any day of the week :confused:

Looks like the blue oval has well and truly bitch slapped Holden :bawl:

[185iboy]

Mental...it still has 245's on the ass....

[mrtockley]

Did you hear that sound? That was the sound of W427's just devaluing a little bit more ..

[hsv-105]

Did you hear that sound? That was the sound of W427's just devaluing a little bit more ..

I'd reckon you'd spend more time calculating your running costs and savings of your LP Gas equipped VE than all W427 owners combined would spend worrying about the depreciation.

The only blokes that seem to worry about it is those that don't own one :confused:

[bouka]

What happened to the cruiser Mark?

[hsv-105]

What happened to the cruiser Mark?

It went for a swim and didn't like it mate :bawl:

New one will be here in 2 weeks { 18 months old so replaced new for old }

[mrtockley]

I'd reckon you'd spend more time calculating your running costs and savings of your LP Gas equipped VE than all W427 owners combined would spend worrying about the depreciation.

The only blokes that seem to worry about it is those that don't own one :confused:

I'm not worried at all, just feel sorry for blokes who dropped $150 k on a Commodore.

[bouka]

It went for a swim and didn't like it mate :bawl:

New one will be here in 2 weeks { 18 months old so replaced new for old }

i trust no one was hurt.

at least the insurance company is sorting it.

no doubt you are enjoying the W in between.

[4VMan]

I dont think W427 owners will be too concerned about the GT-H, sure the GT-H may end up quicker but so what.. the W427 is an obsolete model now... Nobody bought a W427 thinking nothing would ever be released that had better performance..... they bought it for what it was at the time.

[FOON]

And until this supposed GT-H is released it is all speculation, FPV had to strangle the hell out of the new SC GT for durablility reasons. The pictures taken have old model exhaust tips on it and an even older model wheels on it. I wouldn't put money on this (pictured car) being the real deal.

[bouka]

I dont think W427 owners will be too concerned about the GT-H, sure the GT-H may end up quicker but so what.. the W427 is an obsolete model now... Nobody bought a W427 thinking nothing would ever be released that had better performance..... they bought it for what it was at the time.

Well said Norm.

i didn't buy one but had the pleasure of spending many hours behind the wheel of the CSV one and it was a special thing.

Will definately go down in the history books as a special car, regardless of cost and resale (hsv version of course).

[commodorenut]

And until this supposed GT-H is released it is all speculation, FPV had to strangle the hell out of the new SC GT for durablility reasons. The pictures taken have old model exhaust tips on it and an even older model wheels on it. I wouldn't put money on this (pictured car) being the real deal.
Exactly. Things like the rather low RPM limiter are testament to that.

The intercooling side of the equation was played around with from March '09 (sketches, proof of concept etc) to around October '09 (so I'd suggest those snaps would be Oct '09 to Feb '10 vintage), and without breaking the confidentiality agreement, the division I look after at my work supplied components for test mules during this time, and had them "obsoleted" soon after.

If the release of this is to happen soon, then there'll be a lot of fingers being pulled out of rears to revive all the obsoleted components & submit all the PPAPs & PSWs for them. I don't think that will happen....

If the H or HO name is to be done justice, they don't need intercooling to obtain the power levels required.

[701let]

I dont think W427 owners will be too concerned about the GT-H, sure the GT-H may end up quicker but so what.. the W427 is an obsolete model now... Nobody bought a W427 thinking nothing would ever be released that had better performance..... they bought it for what it was at the time.

Well said :goodjob:

[4VMan]

Exactly. Things like the rather low RPM limiter are testament to that.

The intercooling side of the equation was played around with from March '09 (sketches, proof of concept etc) to around October '09 (so I'd suggest those snaps would be Oct '09 to Feb '10 vintage), and without breaking the confidentiality agreement, the division I look after at my work supplied components for test mules during this time, and had them "obsoleted" soon after.

If the release of this is to happen soon, then there'll be a lot of fingers being pulled out of rears to revive all the obsoleted components & submit all the PPAPs & PSWs for them. I don't think that will happen....

If the H or HO name is to be done justice, they don't need intercooling to obtain the power levels required.
If FPV are anything like HSV they'll do the PSW's and PPAP the week before production begins!!

[planetdavo]

I'm not worried at all, just feel sorry for blokes who dropped $150 k on a Commodore.

What about blokes dropping bundles on this "Falcon" then? :jester:

As happens every time something new is coming (but not yet out), nobody really has much to work on yet.
The new 335 GT has proven that. Many thought just that new engine would smash HSV, yet HSV consistently wins overall comparisons as a better all round package.
An engine often do not maketh the car...:teach:

[Ghia351]

Should this car carry some form of Euro number plates if driving OS? It's got Vicroads plates and rego sticker on the windscreen.

[steve_t]

Should this car carry some form of Euro number plates if driving OS? It's got Vicroads plates and rego sticker on the windscreen.

Are you thinking someone's been a bit careless in their Photoshop transfer to a snowy environment?

[Ghia351]

Are you thinking someone's been a bit careless in their Photoshop transfer to a snowy environment?Not really, just wondering if it's a requirement in Europe to carry euro plates for evaluation vehicles. I assume if we could read the plates (or windscreen mounted rego sticker) it would also give us an idea of some backround info and if the vin could be read then someone could quickly divulge what it really is.

[korrupt]

They are remarkably clear 'spy' photos...

[spank]

Did you hear that sound? That was the sound of W427's just devaluing a little bit more ..

i wish, i still cant find one in white and any for under $150 advertised . as far as i can tell they havent dropped much at all

[tomholzy]

for all the people who believe the new fpv's "smash" the hsv's and what is hsv going to release next... and the fpv's supposedly put out 300+rwkw...
you need to be real,
directly from wheels november 2010 mag:

fpv gt-p: 0-100km/h 5.4sec 0-400m 13.4sec 0-180km/h 13.4sec
hsv gts: 0-100km/h 5.3sec 0-400m 13.5sec 0-180km/h 15sec

so in the real world these cars have very similar acceleration performance, the only area where the fpv is significantly in front is at 180+km/h, which in the real world means nothing given most of you just race off at the lights or a quarter mile drag...

the one thing i do agree on is that given the car comes from factory with a supercharger it does make it easier and cheaper to make significant power gains, but if youre going to compare that, anyone with deep enough pockets can just boost a hsv too...

so you guys are arguing over one tenth of f*** all, just pick the car you prefer, do the mods you want and be happy...

holden and ford are just making money out of you anyway they dont give a stuff about cars, they make them virtually identical in terms of power so that they can tinker and release a '10kw' upgrade and laugh all the way to the bank...

[Plenty]

The FG Chassis can't handle the power it has now, hows adding more power going to make it anything like the hero it should be? :confused:

[185iboy]

The FG Chassis can't handle the power it has now, hows adding more power going to make it anything like the hero it should be? :confused:

It just will :eyes:

In 30 years we won't look back and say "Yeah the GT-H got 8/10 and the E3 GTS got 9/10 in the Wheels comparo"

We will look back and say "Yeah...that GT-H was F'n quick!"

[Jarhead]

The FG Chassis can't handle the power it has now, hows adding more power going to make it anything like the hero it should be? :confused:

Plenty of FG's running around with the sort of power the HO will (should?) have. Don't confuse chassis with driveline components. The rear end/tyres are the limiting factor in getting power down. I seriously doubt the HO (if it ever makes it to the showroom floor) will have 245 rubber and stock diff/tailshaft/CV's etc. Remember they need to offer 3yr/100k warranty on these cars.

I am due to upgrade my daily drive in the next few months. I've been putting the feelers out for the E3 and GT. If my wife wasn't so against it I would already be in a Golf R - SWMBO thinks I'll get sick of it very quickly and want another V8.

If I was choosing right now between the cruuent GT and R8 I would probably go the GT just because it's a bit diffent and I like change. In reality I'm choosing between a large RWD Aussie V8 and a small, nimble pocket rocket. Having driven the Golf R I must say I like it a lot. There's a green RS Focus I'm driving tomorrow morning and I will likely decide there and then.

[macca_779]

for all the people who believe the new fpv's "smash" the hsv's and what is hsv going to release next... and the fpv's supposedly put out 300+rwkw...
you need to be real,
directly from wheels november 2010 mag:

fpv gt-p: 0-100km/h 5.4sec 0-400m 13.4sec 0-180km/h 13.4sec
hsv gts: 0-100km/h 5.3sec 0-400m 13.5sec 0-180km/h 15sec

so in the real world these cars have very similar acceleration performance, the only area where the fpv is significantly in front is at 180+km/h, which in the real world means nothing given most of you just race off at the lights or a quarter mile drag...

the one thing i do agree on is that given the car comes from factory with a supercharger it does make it easier and cheaper to make significant power gains, but if youre going to compare that, anyone with deep enough pockets can just boost a hsv too...

so you guys are arguing over one tenth of f*** all, just pick the car you prefer, do the mods you want and be happy...

holden and ford are just making money out of you anyway they dont give a stuff about cars, they make them virtually identical in terms of power so that they can tinker and release a '10kw' upgrade and laugh all the way to the bank...



An xr6 stock is pretty ordinary too. What makes these fords so good is that a mere tune flash unleashes their true potential. 11's mechanically stock is nothing to treat lightly. 380rwkw tune only makes tune only Holdens look stupid. These are the reasons why this engine is getting such high praise. Considering 99% of the members on this forum modify their cars. It's damn relevant.

[Plenty]

Plenty of FG's running around with the sort of power the HO will (should?) have. Don't confuse chassis with driveline components. The rear end/tyres are the limiting factor in getting power down. I seriously doubt the HO (if it ever makes it to the showroom floor) will have 245 rubber and stock diff/tailshaft/CV's etc. Remember they need to offer 3yr/100k warranty on these cars.

I am due to upgrade my daily drive in the next few months. I've been putting the feelers out for the E3 and GT. If my wife wasn't so against it I would already be in a Golf R - SWMBO thinks I'll get sick of it very quickly and want another V8.

If I was choosing right now between the cruuent GT and R8 I would probably go the GT just because it's a bit diffent and I like change. In reality I'm choosing between a large RWD Aussie V8 and a small, nimble pocket rocket. Having driven the Golf R I must say I like it a lot. There's a green RS Focus I'm driving tomorrow morning and I will likely decide there and then.

Sorry but the thing is gonna need more than wider rubber mate, the old Chassis just can't handle the power it's been evident since the BA BF and more so the FG Turbos.

Every motoring journalist criticises the inability for the chassis to harness the power. Plenty of aftermarket cars produce this power but they are not built for the masses with a warranty etc. i just don't think that it will be the car people think it will be. same old same old fast in a straight line, all over when it comes to dynamics. IMO

[hsv-105]

i wish, i still cant find one in white and any for under $150 advertised . as far as i can tell they havent dropped much at all

Exactly Wayne - I would think that a VESSV fitted with gas has probally already depriciated as much in 6 months as my W427 has in nearly 3 years.

Unfortunately some people will never understand the reasoning behind such a purchase so they pity and feel sorry for the W427 owners :bawl::bawl:

[steve_t]

for all the people who believe the new fpv's "smash" the hsv's and what is hsv going to release next... and the fpv's supposedly put out 300+rwkw...
you need to be real,
directly from wheels november 2010 mag:

fpv gt-p: 0-100km/h 5.4sec 0-400m 13.4sec 0-180km/h 13.4sec
hsv gts: 0-100km/h 5.3sec 0-400m 13.5sec 0-180km/h 15sec

so in the real world these cars have very similar acceleration performance, the only area where the fpv is significantly in front is at 180+km/h, which in the real world means nothing given most of you just race off at the lights or a quarter mile drag...

the one thing i do agree on is that given the car comes from factory with a supercharger it does make it easier and cheaper to make significant power gains, but if youre going to compare that, anyone with deep enough pockets can just boost a hsv too...

so you guys are arguing over one tenth of f*** all, just pick the car you prefer, do the mods you want and be happy...

holden and ford are just making money out of you anyway they dont give a stuff about cars, they make them virtually identical in terms of power so that they can tinker and release a '10kw' upgrade and laugh all the way to the bank...

Err... have you looked at 80-120 times?
Bring the LSA or newer equivalent! :goodjob:

[fabian]

FPV I just want one...LOL

[EfiJy]

I'm confused, I thought the Ford faithful said the GT didn't need an intercooler. :jester:

Seriously, I wonder if it will have a bigger capacity blower or just be a tuned version of the 315/335 variety?

[mrtockley]

What about blokes dropping bundles on this "Falcon" then? :jester:

As happens every time something new is coming (but not yet out), nobody really has much to work on yet.
The new 335 GT has proven that. Many thought just that new engine would smash HSV, yet HSV consistently wins overall comparisons as a better all round package.
An engine often do not maketh the car...:teach:

Bundles Davo? Do you think that FPV would have the gall to charge $150 k for a Falcon? I don't think so. $80 - 90k for a car that keeps up / beats something that costs considerably more is more like it.

Which comparisons are you referring to seeing as you consistently bag Wheels, MOTOR and pretty much every other mag or online review.

If an engine do not 'maketh' the car, then perhaps that's why the W427 was such a flop? :teach:

[mrtockley]

Exactly Wayne - I would think that a VESSV fitted with gas has probally already depriciated as much in 6 months as my W427 has in nearly 3 years.

Unfortunately some people will never understand the reasoning behind such a purchase so they pity and feel sorry for the W427 owners :bawl::bawl:

Ouch you cut me deep right then. At least I am under no illusions that my car is depreciating every day. Tell me, now that your W427 is finally "out of the shed", how many kays are on it? Help me understand your reasoning for your purchase please?

[hsv-105]

Ouch you cut me deep right then. At least I am under no illusions that my car is depreciating every day. Tell me, now that your W427 is finally "out of the shed", how many kays are on it? Help me understand your reasoning for your purchase please?

I don't think you'll ever understand my friend :)

[Evman]

If an engine do not 'maketh' the car, then perhaps that's why the W427 was such a flop? :teach:

A flop that made HSV an absolute bundle? Best flop ever if you ask me. You really need to open your eyes. There have been very few cars in existence that have ever increased in value as soon as production stopped. All HSV have done is given the W427 an excellent chance is increase in value in the future, but they never promised that it would.

[planetdavo]

A flop that made HSV an absolute bundle? Best flop ever if you ask me. You really need to open your eyes. There have been very few cars in existence that have ever increased in value as soon as production stopped. All HSV have done is given the W427 an excellent chance is increase in value in the future, but they never promised that it would.

Mate one thing you'll get used to if you take notice of tockles posts is that he takes any opportunity to bait W427 owners. Bit sad I know.
The embarrassing thing for him though is that all he really had to do to see why W427 production ended early was to open a newspaper around two years ago and find out what the letters G, F & C really stood for...

[Steve-LS2]

not trying to get involved in the obvious off topic posts about the W427, but anyway here goes:

A) Who cares if someone else has spent a lot of money on a car (it may not be a lot to them)

B) The value in the car is based on demand and supply if they only become available for sales every now and again, but people with money want to buy them all the time then the price will go up

C) If it isn't your money why do you care so much?? :confused:

[brasher]

take this how you will :bow:

http://i52.tinypic.com/1zoxpbp.jpg

[LJCHSV]

take this how you will :bow:

http://i52.tinypic.com/1zoxpbp.jpg

Love it! :goodjob:

[planetdavo]

I really wonder whether Ford will be brave enough to use the letters GT-HO.
There is almost a mythical level of expectation attached to any future use of the badge (blame 40 odd years of rose coloured glasses), a level that might prove virtually impossible for any new model to ever reach...

[Plenty]

Mate one thing you'll get used to if you take notice of tockles posts is that he takes any opportunity to bait W427 owners. Bit sad I know.
The embarrassing thing for him though is that all he really had to do to see why W427 production ended early was to open a newspaper around two years ago and find out what the letters G, F & C really stood for...

Maybe it's just easier to criticise something you will never own, than just wish you had one.

[planetdavo]

Maybe it's just easier to criticise something you will never own, than just wish you had one.

I'm used to tackles. :yup:

[steve_t]

Would 400kw (and torque limited by drivetrain and tyres) be enough to get Falcon to 100km/h in anywhere near 4.0 seconds?

[Evman]

^^ Where'd the intakes for the intercoolers go?

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/falcon-gt-h-close-3.jpg

[Irish]

I really wonder whether Ford will be brave enough to use the letters GT-HO.
There is almost a mythical level of expectation attached to any future use of the badge (blame 40 odd years of rose coloured glasses), a level that might prove virtually impossible for any new model to ever reach...

I don't think they will use the term GTHO. As you said Davo the pedistal is too high for any car.

[Plenty]

Would 400kw (and torque limited by drivetrain and tyres) be enough to get Falcon to 100km/h in anywhere near 4.0 seconds?

It may well produce the sprint times but it won't take the power like a VE will, the capabilities of the FG chassis is already at it's limits, it's gonna be a scary weapon through the twisties. The XR6 T is lofty and floaty enough!

[JimmyXR6T04]

Would 400kw (and torque limited by drivetrain and tyres) be enough to get Falcon to 100km/h in anywhere near 4.0 seconds?

I think you'll find the image posted claiming 400kw was the work from a member on the ford forums for a 'poster' competition they were having.

[steve_t]

I think you'll find the image posted claiming 400kw was the work from a member on the ford forums for a 'poster' competition they were having.

Ah, that makes more sense. Cool poster :goodjob: I was just having a look at the Walkinshaw site saying their E2 with 480kw and 800nm managed 4.57s 0-100. The E1 with 470kw/770nm supposedly did 4.24s. Getting down to 4.0 seconds would presumably be quite a hard task :goodjob:

[Jarhead]

It may well produce the sprint times but it won't take the power like a VE will, the capabilities of the FG chassis is already at it's limits, it's gonna be a scary weapon through the twisties. The XR6 T is lofty and floaty enough!

Again with the claims of the FG chassis being at it's limits. I'm not sure the motoring press is the best source for info on this matter. In various publications since the FG was released in 2008 the FG has usually won most comparissons in the driving dynamics (recent GTS vs GT notwithstanding). The first comparo between the XR6T, XR8 and SS had the XR6T being a clear winner in every respect - particularly the driving dynamics/chassis.

From my personal experience the VE chassis gets power down much better than the FG in a mechanical sense. I have been in modified FG's with improved suspension and it makes a huge difference. In other words the stock suspension set up and 245 rubber makes the Xr and FPV range a bit floaty by comparison but that isn't the chassis.

If FPV ever produce a GT-HO then it will need suspension/rubber upgrades to keep it planted - no question.

[Plenty]

Again with the claims of the FG chassis being at it's limits. I'm not sure the motoring press is the best source for info on this matter. In various publications since the FG was released in 2008 the FG has usually won most comparissons in the driving dynamics (recent GTS vs GT notwithstanding). The first comparo between the XR6T, XR8 and SS had the XR6T being a clear winner in every respect - particularly the driving dynamics/chassis.

From my personal experience the VE chassis gets power down much better than the FG in a mechanical sense. I have been in modified FG's with improved suspension and it makes a huge difference. In other words the stock suspension set up and 245 rubber makes the Xr and FPV range a bit floaty by comparison but that isn't the chassis.

If FPV ever produce a GT-HO then it will need suspension/rubber upgrades to keep it planted - no question.

Dynamically the XR6 and XR8 are better? since when, straight line yeah, but you i think your a little ahead of yourself with that one.
The VE has always been the superior handler, except maybe damping where the FG is softer in it's tune (soaks bumps better). But anyway this has been done to death, even with the new GT same old straight line grunt but the HSV has the better handling!

[FOON]

Dynamically the XR6 and XR8 are better? since when, straight line yeah, but you i think your a little ahead of yourself with that one.
The VE has always been the superior handler, except maybe damping where the FG is softer in it's tune (soaks bumps better). But anyway this has been done to death, even with the new GT same old straight line grunt but the HSV has the better handling!

Nothing a set of springs, some shocks and swaybars won't fix and while your at it throw in a set of good rubber on wider rears and most of that is solved on the Falcon.

[Plenty]

Nothing a set of springs, some shocks and swaybars won't fix and while your at it throw in a set of good rubber on wider rears and most of that is solved on the Falcon.

Maybe, but haven't they done that to the car now?
Also does anyone know the torsional rigidity of the FG chassis? i just wonder if the tuning is softer in the Ford because the chassis isn't as stiff?
Either way with the GTHO i hope it does well Ford Aus needs to keep it's rear drive Falcon and it's only going to do this if people buy them.

[185iboy]

Dynamically the XR6 and XR8 are better? since when, straight line yeah, but you i think your a little ahead of yourself with that one.
The VE has always been the superior handler, except maybe damping where the FG is softer in it's tune (soaks bumps better). But anyway this has been done to death, even with the new GT same old straight line grunt but the HSV has the better handling!

Since the motor mag 2 years ago where it was quicker around wakefield.

[Plenty]

Since the motor mag 2 years ago where it was quicker around wakefield.

All at Wakefield
on the same day 01/09/08 the VE SS ute pulled a 1:11.20 XR6T ute pulled 1:11.70
on different days but both dry VE SS Sedan pulled 1:11.49 XR6T pulled 1:11.50

Not much really until you take into account the Turbo's superior straight line and roll on acceleration, it's clear the VE uses what it has alot better than the Ford.
Chassis tune and set-up sorry to up-set you the VE has it all over the Ford.
:teach:
like i said it's all been argued before so i won't say anything further on the topic, except that every motoring journalist will agree. IT CAN'T HANDLE THE POWER! Eg. GT & F6

[SM1DY]

Vic plates on the front-

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/ford-falcon-fpv-gt-h-spy-shots_100338403_l.jpg

Crazy European plates on the rear -

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/ford-falcon-fpv-gt-h-spy-shots_100338405_l.jpg

[Jarhead]

GT looks so much better without the stripe package.

Those guys would be having a ball on European roads with higher speed limits (not sure about Sweden- never been there).

I remember thinking how awesome it would be to have my R8 in Italy last year where we travelled 2800km in 3 weeks. Our Megane rental was pushed to it's limits everyday and so are most of the buzz boxes on the road.

[DVR8]

So would they lable it phase 6?

[cams290]

FYI, FPV have kept the 245 rear tyres on their current line up as a fuse in the weak rear end set up.

Wider rear rubber with the current set up would cause other components in the driveline to go TWANG/KABOOM.

[Plenty]

looking at the test mule photos doesn't look like they have fitted bigger rears although hard to tell, brakes also appear to be the same.

[steve_t]

You wouldn't want to fit wider tyres in the snow anyway

[1tunna]

Especially when all 4 wheels drive!

[mrtockley]

Mate one thing you'll get used to if you take notice of tockles posts is that he takes any opportunity to bait W427 owners. Bit sad I know.
The embarrassing thing for him though is that all he really had to do to see why W427 production ended early was to open a newspaper around two years ago and find out what the letters G, F & C really stood for...

Nice try Davo - you've side stepped my questions as per usual and come back with a bullshit excuse ad to why they only sold 137 out of the projected 427 W427's. Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.

Fools and money are easily parted but please don't confuse my disgust at HSV ripping people off for an expensive fleet based car as jealousy. Let's keep it in perspective, it's a Commodore not a Ferrari.

[Steve-LS2]

Nice try Davo - you've side stepped my questions as per usual and come back with a bullshit excuse ad to why they only sold 137 out of the projected 427 W427's. Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.

Fools and money are easily parted but please don't confuse my disgust at HSV ripping people off for an expensive fleet based car as jealousy. Let's keep it in perspective, it's a Commodore not a Ferrari.

WOW, just WOW....:confused:

[steve_t]

Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.



Man, no wonder so many kiwis are crossing the ditch. We're still suffering even though our technical recession ended quite some time ago!

[VH-COM]

Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.


Hindsight is 20/20

As the world economies stumbled in '07 & '08 there were real worries here in Oz even though economic indicators were half decent. Many were concerned that our "downturn" might lag the rest of the world and perhaps be worse considering we rely heavily on resources exports to China.
If I was considering an order for a $150K plaything/investment at the time, it would've definitely been cancelled.

[csv rulz]

Nice try Davo - you've side stepped my questions as per usual and come back with a bullshit excuse ad to why they only sold 137 out of the projected 427 W427's. Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.

Fools and money are easily parted but please don't confuse my disgust at HSV ripping people off for an expensive fleet based car as jealousy. Let's keep it in perspective, it's a Commodore not a Ferrari.

How can you say HSV ripped people off. Those people willingly bought that product knowing the price and what they were getting. So i cannot see how you are disgusted by this - they didnt force anyone to buy them. If you dont like it, dont buy it! SIMPLE
Im personally a big fan of the W427 - when you consider what it offer for the price, compared to the likes of an M5 its a bargain.
Clearly you were not affected by the GFC but try telling all those people that lost jobs and income because of it - that it didnt affect australia.

[Carby]

Nice try Davo - you've side stepped my questions as per usual and come back with a bullshit excuse ad to why they only sold 137 out of the projected 427 W427's. Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.

Fools and money are easily parted but please don't confuse my disgust at HSV ripping people off for an expensive fleet based car as jealousy. Let's keep it in perspective, it's a Commodore not a Ferrari.

WTF?? Who would compare it to a 500+K Ferrari??

Expensive Fleet based car? - so You must also think that of the AMG Mercedes - I mean they are "just" taxi's in Germany...............

[planetdavo]

Nice try Davo - you've side stepped my questions as per usual and come back with a bullshit excuse ad to why they only sold 137 out of the projected 427 W427's. Australia was hardly affected by the GFC so I don't buy that as an excuse.

Fools and money are easily parted but please don't confuse my disgust at HSV ripping people off for an expensive fleet based car as jealousy. Let's keep it in perspective, it's a Commodore not a Ferrari.

Sorry, GTHO's dropping from something like 700K to 250K, or the share market dumping 40% of it's value, or half of rich towns like Port Douglas going onto the real estate market at once don't indicate any GFC related "problems" in Australia???
:confused::confused::confused:

[Evman]

Everyone else is pointing out the other stuff. I'll just add that the 'projected production of 427 vehicles' was actually an absolute maximum, should there be the market for them. I don't think HSV ever said they'd expected move 427 of them.

[mrtockley]

Ok I've ruffled a few one eyed feathers here but here we go ..

@ CSV Rulz - I can easily say that HSV have ripped people off as not long after they released the W427, HSV bought out the E3 HSV's which were a bees dick slower than the W427 around a track and have since started offering W427 parts as options so you can now get something that's nearly as good for say $50 - $60 k less. The engineering that went into the W427 simply wasn't that good to justify the price.

@ Carby - The Ferrari comment was to illustrate that it is not a super car and the the intimations that I was jealous of it were silly. It's based off the same chassis as a fleet designated Commodore, and a Ferrari (or similar) isn't. Yes I'm well aware that in Germany, Mercedes are used as taxis too but I would disagree that Holden's and Mercedes' are on the same playing field.

@ Davo - Yes we've talked about the collectible car's shit storm that happened last year which only bolsters my argument that people who bought this as an investment will be disappointed. It leaves the W427 in limbo as to what it was actually designed for. It's too expensive to take to the track and drive daily and current owners are too shit scared to put kays on them less they devalue them. My original point about a car being collectible was that it had something that nothing else had and id so for a long time - a la the original GT-HO. In a few short years, the W427 will be nothing special... sort of like the yellow taxi GTS-R that HSV flogged off a few years ago with the awesome 'blue printed' engine. It was worth a fortune back then and only 85 limited editions were built and guess how much they're worth now? I didn't realize that Port Douglas was was Australia's economic yard stick either, but if the GFC was so terrible, then why did the W427 go on sale in August 2008 when the first global indicators of the financial crisis were observed in January 2007?

@ Evman - Are you serious? You're telling me that when car makers set out to sell limited editions that they budget for only selling a third of the 'absolute maximum' ? ? That's an interesting way to make money. We hope to sell 427 but we only sold 137 but that's ok, cos 427 was our absolute maximum. :confused:

[clubbie]

Does anyone know what happened to the other 290 LS7 unused motors?

[Plenty]

My original point about a car being collectible was that it had something that nothing else had and id so for a long time - a la the original GT-HO. In a few short years, the W427 will be nothing special... sort of like the yellow taxi GTS-R that HSV flogged off a few years ago with the awesome 'blue printed' engine. It was worth a fortune back then and only 85 limited editions were built and guess how much they're worth now?

Guess they are worth this much...... it's gonna hurt mate!

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=9848201&trecs=1&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__sid=12BC12D0B1B2&__Nne=20&__Qpb=true&seot=1&__N=1247%201282%201252%201246%204294965530%2042949 65529%204294932840%201216&silo=1011

[Skedy]

id say they where built to order and hence when a w427 was ordered they would then ship a motor.

and just because someones asking $110k for a VS it doesnt mean he is going to get it...

anway back on topic of the falcon we where chatting about lol
to say the falcon chassis cant handle the power it has atm is like saying a bear doesnt shit in the woods.....

the simple fact is that a bear does shit in the woods and a falcon chassis can handle the power....

it will be interesting too see what ford will do with the GT-H. They could charge a similar amount for a once of limited run just like the W427 and people would buy them or they could build a mass produced 400kw car for 20k more then the current range topping GT-E

interesting times ahead

[FOON]

Guess they are worth this much...... it's gonna hurt mate!

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=9848201&trecs=1&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__sid=12BC12D0B1B2&__Nne=20&__Qpb=true&seot=1&__N=1247%201282%201252%201246%204294965530%2042949 65529%204294932840%201216&silo=1011

Not really wanting to get involved in this argument but, the car is only worth what someone will pay for it, just because one guy has $110k on it doesn't mean it is worth that much or that it will sell for that much. Some GTHO owners still think their cars are worth 3/4 of a mil but they are being sold for 250-350k now get my drift.

[dsc2]

looks interesting....

[Evman]

@ Evman - Are you serious? You're telling me that when car makers set out to sell limited editions that they budget for only selling a third of the 'absolute maximum' ? ? That's an interesting way to make money. We hope to sell 427 but we only sold 137 but that's ok, cos 427 was our absolute maximum. :confused:

Why the hell not? You are one serious tripper if you think HSV would put themselves in a position to have to sell every single one of the possible 427 vehicles before it made the project worthwhile. Your business sense must be shot to shit. Then you talk about how the W427 was an absolute rip off because it was so expensive yet you can't fathom that HSV made a profit on them. You're the one eyed bloke here, and that eye is looking down the scope at the W427.

[SM1DY]

Not really wanting to get involved in this argument but, the car is only worth what someone will pay for it, just because one guy has $110k on it doesn't mean it is worth that much or that it will sell for that much.
Case and point, the 40th anniversary GT on carsales for 110k

[csv rulz]

Why the hell not? You are one serious tripper if you think HSV would put themselves in a position to have to sell every single one of the possible 427 vehicles before it made the project worthwhile. Your business sense must be shot to shit. Then you talk about how the W427 was an absolute rip off because it was so expensive yet you can't fathom that HSV made a profit on them. You're the one eyed bloke here, and that eye is looking down the scope at the W427.

Well Said Evman.
People who bought the W427 would have known that bits and pieces would trickle down into the rest of the range eventually. When you compare 375kw to 325kw there is still a big enough margin there for the premium price of the W427.
Look at people who laid down there hard earned cash for 5.4L GT and now it gets blown out of the water by the 5.0L/S GT. Some may call it being ripped off, i call it progression.

[mrtockley]

Why the hell not? You are one serious tripper if you think HSV would put themselves in a position to have to sell every single one of the possible 427 vehicles before it made the project worthwhile. Your business sense must be shot to shit. Then you talk about how the W427 was an absolute rip off because it was so expensive yet you can't fathom that HSV made a profit on them. You're the one eyed bloke here, and that eye is looking down the scope at the W427.

Ok Ev you win and I have no idea about the business models of car manufacturers - which I don't actually, but it just seemed to make sense to me that any premium car manufacturer that sets out to make a 'limited edition' where they have a set number of vehicles they intend to produce, actually make said amount of vehicles. It's sort of a play on the whole 'limited' part. You are justifying HSV's 137 units sold as though they meant to because as 137 is less than 427 it's under the 'limited' definition. I just don't think that's how it's meant to work. If HSV are arrogant enough to compare themselves to premium car brands then you'd want to have a product that was as good. You don't read about Audi making a limited edition run and not selling every single car do you? People snap these up sight unseen before production even takes place, but whatever helps you sleep Ev.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/15/audi-introduces-two-new-limited-edition-packages-for-the-rs6/

http://www.gizmag.com/go/3914/

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/02/frankfurt-preview-limited-edition-porsche-911-sport-classic-mar/

And my favorite - http://www.blogofcar.com/auto/2010/03/2011-nissan-gt-r-limited-edition/ I wonder if Nissan will be able to shift these ?

[mrtockley]

Guess they are worth this much...... it's gonna hurt mate!

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=9848201&trecs=1&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__sid=12BC12D0B1B2&__Nne=20&__Qpb=true&seot=1&__N=1247%201282%201252%201246%204294965530%2042949 65529%204294932840%201216&silo=1011

Mate you can shit in a shoe box and try to sell it for $110 k but doesn't mean someone will buy it. That ad was last edited on 06/01/11 so it hasn't been snapped up as yet..

They were going for around the $50 k odd mark at auctions which is a better indicator of real world price.

[macca_779]

Well Said Evman.
People who bought the W427 would have known that bits and pieces would trickle down into the rest of the range eventually. When you compare 375kw to 325kw there is still a big enough margin there for the premium price of the W427.
Look at people who laid down there hard earned cash for 5.4L GT and now it gets blown out of the water by the 5.0L/S GT. Some may call it being ripped off, i call it progression.

Close enough to $90k difference I wouldn't exactly call a fair margin for a 50kw premium.

Here is one that was at the time meant to hold its value being the last of the Aussie V8's.. Didn't quite turn out that way. Progression sure did ram it firmly in the arse as it will for the W427 too I predict.
VT Series 1 GTS 220kw
* Private Price Guide $12,000 - $14,800
* Trade In Price Guide $8,700 - $11,500
* Average Km 210,000 - 350,000
Price New $70,950*

[csv rulz]

Close enough to $90k difference I wouldn't exactly call a fair margin for a 50kw premium.

Here is one that was at the time meant to hold its value being the last of the Aussie V8's.. Didn't quite turn out that way. Progression sure did ram it firmly in the arse as it will for the W427 too I predict.
VT Series 1 GTS 220kw
* Private Price Guide $12,000 - $14,800
* Trade In Price Guide $8,700 - $11,500
* Average Km 210,000 - 350,000
Price New $70,950*

There is a lot more to the W427 than just an extra 50kw though, i used that as an example.
In terms of progression, that is part of our society. Everyone is trying to acheive to do better and out of that you get progression. What would be the point if GTS's were still only making 220kw, HSV would have gone out of business along time ago.
If people got burnt by HSV because the GTS went from 220KW - 300kw than in my opinion it is bad luck, its like losing in the stock market or in real estate.
And if you are buying a car purely to make money than in my opinion it is not a very wise decision, you should only buy a car to enjoy it.

[Steve-LS2]

you should only buy a car to enjoy it.

Agreed, if that means YOU enjoy it driving it, looking at it in your garage or knowing that it only has 15kms on the ODO then that is up to YOU

[macca_779]

There is a lot more to the W427 than just an extra 50kw though, i used that as an example.
In terms of progression, that is part of our society. Everyone is trying to acheive to do better and out of that you get progression. What would be the point if GTS's were still only making 220kw, HSV would have gone out of business along time ago.
If people got burnt by HSV because the GTS went from 220KW - 300kw than in my opinion it is bad luck, its like losing in the stock market or in real estate.
And if you are buying a car purely to make money than in my opinion it is not a very wise decision, you should only buy a car to enjoy it.

Do you really think there is all that much more. 90% of the other W427 exclusive components all became optional if not standard on very next model. It really is just an engine and one that isn't worth what HSV was selling it for.

People often mention that HSV had to charge such a large premium because of development costs. That's true to some extent, but with the exception of the dry sump and a few bits of trim. Everything else would have always been intended to be used on the next model and subsequently would have been costed into that too.

[mrtockley]

Well Said Evman.
People who bought the W427 would have known that bits and pieces would trickle down into the rest of the range eventually. When you compare 375kw to 325kw there is still a big enough margin there for the premium price of the W427.
Look at people who laid down there hard earned cash for 5.4L GT and now it gets blown out of the water by the 5.0L/S GT. Some may call it being ripped off, i call it progression.

Your argument is flawed. The progression of the GT's 5.4 to the S/C 5.0 is natural progression. There is a power increase, new technology and future proofing for possible newer models for a similar price point. The W427's use of the 7.0 is not progression as it will never be used in future HSV's and either is the price they charged for it. Charging that much for it then watering it's value down by offering W427 components to the rest of the HSV lineup wasn't sensible either. The argument that the extra cost was for all of the so called engineering that went into it doesn't hold much water.

[mrtockley]

And if you are buying a car purely to make money than in my opinion it is not a very wise decision, you should only buy a car to enjoy it.

Exactly, which is what I'd say 99% of buyers bought it for - as an investment. Released in 2008 and you'd struggle to find one with more than 10,000 on the clock.

[HRT 8]

This isnt a c0ck swinging exercise about whether a W427was or is an investment.

The thread relates to the possibility of an intercooled GT.

Lets keep it on track or the wand will come out. No ifs, no buts!!!

[csv rulz]

Not sure if this has been added, but a bit of an update on Caradvice today in regard to potential GT-H

After posing the question to FPV, Rod Barrett, General Manager, Ford Performance vehicles, had this to say about the photographs:

“The vehicle shown undertaking testing in Sweden is an engineering mule vehicle used as part of the Miami engineering development program. During this program the vehicle was based in Europe, and other parts of the world. Specifically, it has been used to calibrate the vehicle’s electronic traction control, anti-lock-brakes and dynamic stability control systems.

This prototype vehicle has been fitted with heat exchangers designed to allow engineers to control engine intake air temperatures, independent of prevailing ambient conditions. In other words, the vehicle can be tested on very low friction surfaces currently present during the Swedish winter, while at the same time the engineers can simulate the engine performance as if the test was being conducted in 40 deg C temperatures in the Northern Territory.

This system has been installed for development purposes only, and is in no way related to the development of a model designated GT-H or GT HO. The FPV GS and GT have class-leading power and torque outputs from the Supercharged 5.0 litre V8 engine. To achieve this, the GS and GT do not require an engine intercooler system.”

[HYMEY]

Ford is just using "boost" to sell there cars. It is pretty easy to make good power gains with a boosted engine. Of course it will be held back with a factory tune as all boosted cars are. What happens if HSV release the LS9 in the VF? Again won't happen I don't think HSV are that interested in FI when already shown performance of all factory vehicles (regardless of what power they make) is proven on the black dyno, not an internet one. And there all pretty much the same. A stock 427 will get a VE into the 12s on streets been done. thats by the crappy mag drivers lol. As for the price it is up there but a much better package then the Ford, dry sump from factory basically a race car. A blown 427 from a corvette in a VE will sell cars but then you have a factory 10 second VE would the government ever let that be released?

[Skedy]

it would want to be a better package for double the price hahah

[steve_t]

Not sure if this has been added, but a bit of an update on Caradvice today in regard to potential GT-H

After posing the question to FPV, Rod Barrett, General Manager, Ford Performance vehicles, had this to say about the photographs:

“The vehicle shown undertaking testing in Sweden is an engineering mule vehicle used as part of the Miami engineering development program. During this program the vehicle was based in Europe, and other parts of the world. Specifically, it has been used to calibrate the vehicle’s electronic traction control, anti-lock-brakes and dynamic stability control systems.

This prototype vehicle has been fitted with heat exchangers designed to allow engineers to control engine intake air temperatures, independent of prevailing ambient conditions. In other words, the vehicle can be tested on very low friction surfaces currently present during the Swedish winter, while at the same time the engineers can simulate the engine performance as if the test was being conducted in 40 deg C temperatures in the Northern Territory.

This system has been installed for development purposes only, and is in no way related to the development of a model designated GT-H or GT HO. The FPV GS and GT have class-leading power and torque outputs from the Supercharged 5.0 litre V8 engine. To achieve this, the GS and GT do not require an engine intercooler system.”

Hmmm... interesting. Not sure why you'd need something with fins that air passes through in order to heat the intake air. I'm gonna take this with a few grains of salt

[mrtockley]

Hmmm... interesting. Not sure why you'd need something with fins that air passes through in order to heat the intake air. I'm gonna take this with a few grains of salt

Yeah I agree, but it is also weird how in several pics the intercooler/heaters (?) are blocked off by the car bra. Also interesting that the Miami is already engineered to accept a cooler. It's a clever use of deflective wording. The GS and GT might not need an intercooler to get those levels of power and torque but what about 375 or 400 kW's ?

[Ken]

... A blown 427 from a corvette ...
FYI ... the blown Corvette is 376ci (6.16ltr), not 427ci (7.01ltr).

[planetdavo]

Does anyone know what happened to the other 290 LS7 unused motors?

I did ask my mate within HSV if he had any "spare" LS7's laying around a while back he'd like to sell me cheap...:lmao:
As HSV said they were only going to build up to 427 cars, they came in small batches from the US, so there was no stockpile.

[4VMan]

I did ask my mate within HSV if he had any "spare" LS7's laying around a while back he'd like to sell me cheap...:lmao:
As HSV said they were only going to build up to 427 cars, they came in small batches from the US, so there was no stockpile.

Its the 137 LS3's that are being sold cheap that people forget about...

[Evman]

Edited, not important

[commodorenut]

How the hell did we go from FPVs to pages & pages of crap about W427s???

http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kaitaia.com%2Ffunny%2Fpicture s%2FThreadHijack%2Fthread_direction.gif

[HRT 8]

I warned you not to take this thread off course again.

You guys that didnt listen be prepared for a week long break coming your way today!