Can blowers be legally fitted to LS3's now?

[4VMan]

Given the new laws for fitment of superchargers to an engine now can anyone legally fit a supercharger to a HSV? What do Walkinshaw do now?

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx

Specifically the section on engines.......

Interesting times ahead for the aftermarket industry.

[big_block_hg]

Can you be more specific as to what clauses of what particular document indicate otherwise?

[Martin_D]

It looks no different than its been for the past ten years.
Meet the current emission standards, certify, and go for type approval :)

[gavlotic]

I think it needs reworking especially the forced induction part.

eg. kerb mass of e2 hsv say 1792kg

largest NA 1792 x 5 = 8960cc (that's a pretty big)
FI 1792 x 3 = 5376cc (that's smaller than an ls1)

so according to these new vehicle regulations it's easier to get a big stroker passed than going the forced induction route.

Oh well I always prefered cubes anyway.

cheers,

Gav

[4VMan]

Can you be more specific as to what clauses of what particular document indicate otherwise?

Sorry, PDF. NCOP3, table LA 1

In short to modify:

All vehicles originally weighing more than 1100 kg.

Naturally Aspirated = Original mass (kg) x 5.0 = max. capacity in cc’s

Turbo/Supercharged= Original mass (kg) x 3.0 = max. capacity in cc’s

So a Clubsport weighing roughly 1800kg can only be supercharged/turbo'd if the engine capacity is reduced to 3 x 1800 = 5400cc..

[Martin_D]

Oh well I always prefered cubes anyway.


They all have to pass Euro IV.......not a chance :)

[gavlotic]

so nothing can be fudged in the tune for the bigger motors to pass emissions?

cheers

Gav

[pah]

So we'll have to wait for Holden to bring out a supercharged V8 in response to the current FPV V8?

I was talking to a tuner who's just bought and tuned a Supercharged FG FPV. He reckons it goes like a cut cat. Plenty of room for more grunt!

AFM helps economy because it make a variable capacity engine. I guess supercharging does the same. Hence the 1.4L VW engine with a turbo AND a supercharger.


PAH

[Ken]

Sorry, PDF. NCOP3, table LA 1
In short to modify:
All vehicles originally weighing more than 1100 kg.
Naturally Aspirated = Original mass (kg) x 5.0 = max. capacity in cc’s
Turbo/Supercharged= Original mass (kg) x 3.0 = max. capacity in cc’s
So a Clubsport weighing roughly 1800kg can only be supercharged/turbo'd if the engine capacity is reduced to 3 x 1800 = 5400cc..

If this is read in isolation & out of context, it would be problematic.
Fortunatley, the table is titled:

* Recommended Maximum Engine Capacity *The "Terms & Definitions" state:

Must: Indicates mandatory
Should: Indicates a recommendation
Therefore, I read a "recommendation" as not being mandatory.

:)

[LSONE]

Sorry, PDF. NCOP3, table LA 1

In short to modify:

All vehicles originally weighing more than 1100 kg.

Naturally Aspirated = Original mass (kg) x 5.0 = max. capacity in cc’s

Turbo/Supercharged= Original mass (kg) x 3.0 = max. capacity in cc’s

So a Clubsport weighing roughly 1800kg can only be supercharged/turbo'd if the engine capacity is reduced to 3 x 1800 = 5400cc..


Wow no s h I t hey learn something new everyday, I guess HSV /Walkinshaw have found a little loop hole.

[Popeye1]

most important get it engernied! 1st your coverd by insurance and rta, on your rego papers and stiker it will say conditional, the emision test well 90 percent of all modeed cars rods would fail that, just go out and enjoy your dream "but do it and build it safe".

[1CNT LS1]

Yep, anything can be done as long as its engineered and emissions compliant. always has, always will.

[4VMan]

These are the guidelines for engineering compliance..... I would have thought it was illegal to engineer something outside the guidelines.

[Ruiner]

Sort off topic but still regarding engineering a S/C set up.
How would one go about supercharging and engineering a VY2 LS1? Do these same rules apply?

[VYSSBlack]

If this is read in isolation & out of context, it would be problematic.
Fortunatley, the table is titled:

* Recommended Maximum Engine Capacity *The "Terms & Definitions" state:

Must: Indicates mandatory
Should: Indicates a recommendation
Therefore, I read a "recommendation" as not being mandatory.

:)

Yup I agree, its only a recommendation, not mandatory

[Skedy]

ruiner take it to an engineer and have a chat about how hard and what it would cost
im currently getting my rx7 engineered with a l98
some will want to charge you a forutne others are more resonable
my engineer doesnt seem to be worried that my motors been tuned with a cam and no maf
but is worried that my foglights dont work and asked me to show him where the switch to turn them on and off is...

[DT6527]

Sort off topic but still regarding engineering a S/C set up.
How would one go about supercharging and engineering a VY2 LS1? Do these same rules apply?

I put a S/C on my VZ (5.7L) and all I did was keep in touch with the engineer through out the build. Sent him pics as we were going and he was feeding us back info on how he wanted to see it set up. Once we finished with the charger and intercooler set up, we drove it to the engineer and he went over it and passed it.
The biggest issue is the emmision test. I went there thinking that i would probably fail, but it passed only just.
I have been pulled up for random checks from the police because they see a big intercooler at the front of the car, and once they realise its all legal, they tell me have a nice day and off i go on my way.

So its a bit of stuffing around early, but well worth getting it all legal.

[4VMan]

I dont think people realise these rules were unpdated on the 11th Jan 2011.
I wouldnt imagine many people or engineers are aware of these changes to the legislation yet. What people did in the past is fine but the rules have changed since them.

All i can say is if you're contemplating fitting a blower is make sure who ever fits it and engineers it is aware of the NEW rules and doesnt assume the old rules still apply....

[InsaneVL]

Going from memory in the NCOP - if you change the engine to something that the car did not have as a factory option, then the RECOMMENDED cubes of the new engine goes by that formula.

If you are adding a turbo or supercharger to the factory (or factory option) engine, then it is complied under LA2 or LA3 (?? can't remember which one) - NOT LA1..

Regardless - as others have pointed out - its a RECOMMENDATION, not a MANDATORY. In theory, if you can convince an engineer its a good idea, you could put a 800 cube v8 into an old Mini.... and then put a 12/71 on top..... and then add 4 x t88 turbo's.... Emisions might be an issue... but its possible.

I know of a VL that has been recently engineered in QLD with an LS1 in it, and a turbo on the side. Fully legal. Food for thought.. hmmm....

[Ken]

I dont think people realise these rules were unpdated on the 11th Jan 2011.
I wouldnt imagine many people or engineers are aware of these changes to the legislation yet. What people did in the past is fine but the rules have changed since them.

All i can say is if you're contemplating fitting a blower is make sure who ever fits it and engineers it is aware of the NEW rules and doesnt assume the old rules still apply....

The "old" rules & "new" rules are fundamentally the same for supercharging. I did a 5.7 VZ a few years back (2006?) and I dont see anything in the 2011 release that would have significantly changed the difficulty or outcome.
Page 3/LA41 notes the Amendments.