Good cheap copy AP rotors

[S&S]

If you have the VZ R8 AP brake kit and are looking for an alternative to the genuine expensive rotors take a look at these

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOLDEN-VZ-CLUBSPORT-R8-HSV-PERFORMANCE-DISC-ROTORS-/290522148640?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a4782f20

At $150 per rotor they look good and in fact I just received my order (front set).Almost an exact copy when compared with a near new genuine set I have here.Wiper slots look a little shallow compared to the genuine but vanes have a left and right and from what I and told these are a harder material (more carbon)compared to the genuine ones.I will put up a few pics if anyone wants some and does anyone already have these?

[hRTHSV]

Been watching them on ebay for some time. Please keep us posted on how they go, maybe be an option when I need so new discs.

[OPTIMUS]

good find im a way off needing new rotors tho

[lowlai]

are brakes an area you should go cheap on?

[planetdavo]

are brakes an area you should go cheap on?

I agree, but end of the day most of the people buying big brake packages these days do so simply to show them off, rather than having any need for serious braking performance. That market usually couldn't care less what they're like, as long as they are cheap.

[hRTHSV]

I agree, but end of the day most of the people buying big brake packages these days do so simply to show them off, rather than having any need for serious braking performance. That market usually couldn't care less what they're like, as long as they are cheap.

I have heard 3rd hand that these discs are pretty good, allegedly also the guy uses them at the track himself. I have 2 sets of the VZ HSV AP's and 1 set of VE HSV AP's some use at the track some on family cars, but they all get used heavily when a big Kangaroo jumps out in front or some dkchead dives out in front of you.

When you consider AP's are supposedly made in China now anyway who says they are any better.

Price does not necessarily equal quality, it can but certainly not always.

[keith reed]

If you have the VZ R8 AP brake kit and are looking for an alternative to the genuine expensive rotors take a look at these

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOLDEN-VZ-CLUBSPORT-R8-HSV-PERFORMANCE-DISC-ROTORS-/290522148640?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a4782f20

At $150 per rotor they look good and in fact I just received my order (front set).Almost an exact copy when compared with a near new genuine set I have here.Wiper slots look a little shallow compared to the genuine but vanes have a left and right and from what I and told these are a harder material (more carbon)compared to the genuine ones.I will put up a few pics if anyone wants some and does anyone already have these?

Prettty sure thats where I got the rotors for my vt when I went to 4 pot callipers. No complaints so far.

[white lie]

Anyone find the big boy AP's (362mm)'s any cheaper?
$300 per end is a lot better than $1600!

[planetdavo]

Country of origin often isn't an indication of "quality". If the factory is a transplant from a major recognised international the quality will usually be as good as anywhere, but if it's an unknown banging out knockoff's it probably isn't.
From my own perspective, to be able to buy such low volume rotors for such a low price "should" be an indication that some homework needs to be done about the product.

[Plenty]

Like PD has said the items from major manufacturers are made to the companies strict guidelines and standards, rip offs are not made to the same strict standards and testing.

These rotors may be ample for the one off stop, but wouldn't want to push them to hard.
Do they meet Australian standards? Insurance could be an issue.
i'd rather a non slotted plain DBA rotor than a crap rip off.
Can't afford to maintain the car to it's oem spec then maybe not worth owing it!

[stockergts]

they look like the rda brand of rotor what type of packing did it come in? if they are rda's i have found them better than dba's time and time again they last longer dont warp as quick and you can use ebc on them without problems when you use ebc on dba it can pull the carbon out of the disc and cause a shudder remove the black deposits and its all good again

[Evman]

Looking forward to some independent reviews. A correction on the description though;


Discs sizes are:

Front discs:

...

Corresponds with the DBA part no: 52018

The DBA 5XXXX series is a two piece series so they infact do not correspond to that part number. DBA don't make a single piece calliper for the front.

[S&S]

I have heard 3rd hand that these discs are pretty good, allegedly also the guy uses them at the track himself.

I rang him and he seemed genuine,it was not till I asked the question did he bother to tell me several people have used these at the track with good results.Yes he wants to sell his products but he was not pushy on the phone and let me hang up without placing an order no questions asked.

Prettty sure thats where I got the rotors for my vt when I went to 4 pot callipers. No complaints so far.
Thankyou for your REAL world feedback


Country of origin often isn't an indication of "quality". If the factory is a transplant from a major recognised international the quality will usually be as good as anywhere, but if it's an unknown banging out knockoff's it probably isn't.
From my own perspective, to be able to buy such low volume rotors for such a low price "should" be an indication that some homework needs to be done about the product.
Ummm I feel a rant coming on.I did the homework, I bought the product and from my trade qualified (fitter machinist) point of view these look good.This supplier knows what the downfall is with the genuine rotors (to soft) and appears to have addressed the issue.If you have some technical knowledge to add please do as all I have seen so far is conjecture based on nothing more than your opinion.



i'd rather a non slotted plain DBA rotor than a crap rip off.
Can't afford to maintain the car to it's oem spec then maybe not worth owing it!
I would not hold DBA to highly or PD:)
If as I hope my "homework" turnes out to be correct these could be better than oem.Genuine does not guarantee quality neither does price.


they look like the rda brand of rotor what type of packing did it come in? if they are rda's i have found them better than dba's time and time again they last longer dont warp as quick and you can use ebc on them without problems when you use ebc on dba it can pull the carbon out of the disc and cause a shudder remove the black deposits and its all good again
From what I have seen these are not RDA and they are branded as superstone premium on the box.For the price they would have to be made in China or similar but are made to the suppliers specs as he told me on the phone.I think that MAY mean he had them cast and someone could have acquired the CNC program.The genuine rotors weigh 11.4kg and these 11.7kg if that means anything.

[planetdavo]

Not out to start anything S&S. If you are happy fitting the product to your own car then that is all that is important.
(Just so you know, good friction equals good braking performance, so pads and rotors wearing down is often an indication of good friction at work. Rotors not wearing is more an indication of not having to open your wallet so often. :))

[stockergts]

most disc are now coming out of places like chine/india its just as said that everybody wants it made to a certain specs and that what they do i know the some of the rotors i have been told come from the other half of where holden get thers made

[planetdavo]

most disc are now coming out of places like chine/india its just as said that everybody wants it made to a certain specs and that what they do i know the some of the rotors i have been told come from the other half of where holden get thers made

Quite possibly true, but just because two products are made in the same factory does not mean they are remotely equal to each other.
Cheap is often cheap for a very good reason...

[S&S]

Not out to start anything S&S.
(Just so you know, good friction equals good braking performance, so pads and rotors wearing down is often an indication of good friction at work. Rotors not wearing is more an indication of not having to open your wallet so often. :))
All good here PD.
I do know a bit about braking performance but I consider 1-2 sets of DS2500 pads per rotor a little to much "performance"

Quite possibly true, but just because two products are made in the same factory does not mean they are remotely equal to each other.


You bring up a good point as the more I look at these castings the more they appear the same.There are only minor machining differences, are they made in the same place? have they been "ripped" and taken to the next factory down the road? I'll fit them to the car with some new DS 2500 pads and report back.

[hRTHSV]

I'll be interested to hear what you think, don't forget to bed them in.

[OPTIMUS]

Quite possibly true, but just because two products are made in the same factory does not mean they are remotely equal to each other.
Cheap is often cheap for a very good reason...

and expensive is often expensive for no good reason also

[planetdavo]

and expensive is often expensive for no good reason also

Can be, but we are talking AP Racing, a rather well known and respected premium quality brake supplier...:yup:

[keith reed]

Quite possibly true, but just because two products are made in the same factory does not mean they are remotely equal to each other.
Cheap is often cheap for a very good reason...

Another possibility is that we are paying to much for the local product. I remember buying a well known cold air intake that I had bought solely on the companies advertisements. The power increase was zilch. Unless we are able to form an opinion based on testing then we are not able to say that a cheaper brand is worse than a dearer brand.

[pah]

I guess big brakes will only be needed on track days. It's hard to drive a car hard enough on public roads to need them - and keep a licence. Heavy towing in mountains might be an exception. I experienced brake fade in my old VP coming down mcQuarrie Pass and also in the Strathbogies back in the 1990's.

The logical extension of this argument is that we only need 150kw (because there's nowhere to use 350kw on public roads) . . . so I guess it's an illogical extension?? Old habits die hard?

I guess an up-side of big brakes is that they last longer. True? How often do the big brakes need new pads or rotors?




PAH

[Plenty]

and expensive is often expensive for no good reason also

Expensive usually means that they have the good reputation to sell their products at a premium to others.

[planetdavo]

I guess an up-side of big brakes is that they last longer. True? How often do the big brakes need new pads or rotors?
PAH

It actually often doesn't work out this way pah, believe it or not, for two very different reasons.
First one is that big brakes usually come with big calipers and pads bonded with a high friction compound. This higher level of friction creates better stopping ability, but higher wear rates.
The other scenario is that big brakes often don't get hot enough in normal road driving conditions for the pad compound to work properly. This lower than desirable pad temp can also lead to increased rotor wear.

[VYSHSV8]

Expensive usually means that they have the good reputation to sell their products at a premium to others.

Or it an invitation to rip unknowing people of :):)

[planetdavo]

Or it an invitation to rip unknowing people of :):)

What, a bit like certain name brand exhaust systems people highly recommend on this forum do...?
Reputation usually does cost more. The no-names have to be cheaper, because who in their right mind would pay premium money for an unknown quality brand? :confused:
However, if they are SO much cheaper, why are they, when the well known brands are much dearer?

[clubbie]

However, if they are SO much cheaper, why are they, when the well known brands are much dearer?

Business 101 planetboy.

It is the same reason why 11.3kg of steel and 11.7kg of steel cost basically the same as a raw material but one sells for $150 the other for $600. But you would know that right planetboy? Seems not.

[OMR346]

Business 101 planetboy.

It is the same reason why 11.3kg of steel and 11.7kg of steel cost basically the same as a raw material but one sells for $150 the other for $600. But you would know that right planetboy? Seems not.

Exactally right. At my price, i can buy "good quality reputable" rotors for almost the same price as cheaper lesser known rotors. But the retail price on the more known brand is a lot more.

But Holden sell them, so they must be good :bow::bow::bow:

[planetdavo]

Business 101 planetboy.

It is the same reason why 11.3kg of steel and 11.7kg of steel cost basically the same as a raw material but one sells for $150 the other for $600. But you would know that right planetboy? Seems not.

It's kind of amusing how you pretend to know so much on this subject, yet you feel the need to resort to immature "planetboy" jibes to look like a hero in front of people similar to you...:spew:
Just because two things look the same doesn't mean they are the same. Anyone with a brain should be asking why they differ, rather than just being blinded by a cheaper invoice leaving more cash in their wallet. :teach:
:goodjob:

[stockergts]

It's kind of amusing how you pretend to know so much on this subject, yet you feel the need to resort to immature "planetboy" jibes to look like a hero in front of people similar to you...:spew:
Just because two things look the same doesn't mean they are the same. Anyone with a brain should be asking why they differ, rather than just being blinded by a cheaper invoice leaving more cash in their wallet. :teach:
:goodjob:

well i am a brake specialist running my own shop so yes i do know a thing or 2 some of the things you have said are true however its the company getting the discs made that sets the stanard not where they are made
point in case ford ba had mojor problems with brake shudder one of the problems
with them was the gen disc changing the disc to an after market item solved alot of the issues i deal with ford dealers and i sell alot of these along with focus which have a soft disc same as the xc barina

so you find not all of the time but a cheaper aftermarket disc is alot better option in regards to performance pads have a harder compound that is correct but you can get performance based pads in a rotor friendly cmpound think lucas and ebc green

[hsv-105]

well i am a brake specialist running my own shop so yes i do know a thing or 2 some of the things you have said are true however its the company getting the discs made that sets the stanard not where they are made
point in case ford ba had mojor problems with brake shudder one of the problems
with them was the gen disc changing the disc to an after market item solved alot of the issues i deal with ford dealers and i sell alot of these along with focus which have a soft disc same as the xc barina

so you find not all of the time but a cheaper aftermarket disc is alot better option in regards to performance pads have a harder compound that is correct but you can get performance based pads in a rotor friendly cmpound think lucas and ebc green

Take a brake mate - you're talking way too fast.

[chillicatqld]

well i am a brake specialist running my own shop so yes i do know a thing or 2 some of the things you have said are true however its the company getting the discs made that sets the stanard not where they are made
point in case ford ba had mojor problems with brake shudder one of the problems
with them was the gen disc changing the disc to an after market item solved alot of the issues i deal with ford dealers and i sell alot of these along with focus which have a soft disc same as the xc barina

so you find not all of the time but a cheaper aftermarket disc is alot better option in regards to performance pads have a harder compound that is correct but you can get performance based pads in a rotor friendly cmpound think lucas and ebc green




http://www.webenglishteacher.com/sentences.html

[stockergts]

yeah i didn't pass english at school had a knack for maths and mechanical things

[chillicatqld]

All good mate.... Just takin the piss!

[stockergts]

All good mate.... Just takin the piss!

nah thats fine hey as i said not to good and english stuff but the things i do know i dont like it when people either dont listen or don't wont too
i mean this just started as a cheap ap rotor thread

[Evman]

yeah i didn't pass english at school had a knack for maths and mechanical things

English (the subject) is overrated. Maths and sciences is where it's at :yup:

[STod.]

Ive had these using DS2500 pads for about 3,000kms and have done 3 track days. Once my new pads were bedded in they made a great combination. Very confident on the track going into corners at high speeds and have only minimal fade. Very happy so far.

[hRTHSV]

Ive had these using DS2500 pads for about 3,000kms and have done 3 track days. Once my new pads were bedded in they made a great combination. Very confident on the track going into corners at high speeds and have only minimal fade. Very happy so far.

What are they like compared to the stock rotors at the track.

[S&S]

does anyone already have these?


Ive had these using DS2500 pads for about 3,000kms and have done 3 track days. Once my new pads were bedded in they made a great combination. Very confident on the track going into corners at high speeds and have only minimal fade. Very happy so far.
Thankyou for your feedback it appears the supplier has been true to his word and is now offering a level of quality which may well prove to be above that of oem.



Just because two things look the same doesn't mean they are the same. Anyone with a brain should be asking why they differ, rather than just being blinded by a cheaper invoice leaving more cash in their wallet. :teach:
:goodjob:

With all due respect this forum is not your holden dealership spares division.Your defence of genuine parts quality in this instance apppears to be blinding you of what is reality.The reality is you have dismissed this product based on price and country of origin without even viewing it.

[planetdavo]

some of the things you have said are true however its the company getting the discs made that sets the stanard not where they are made
point in case ford ba had mojor problems with brake shudder one of the problems
with them was the gen disc changing the disc to an after market item solved alot of the issues i deal with ford dealers and i sell alot of these along with focus which have a soft disc same as the xc barina


Ford went cheap on the material spec, so they ended up with problems. Think most people know that. I've been saying for half this thread that it's not about the country where things are made, but what quality they are!!!
Working in the trade, I am WELL familiar with the "softness" of euro rotors.
The thing most don't care to explain though is that these euro brakes are designed to work well at over 200km/h, so work extremely well for a factory single piston brake. Start fitting harder aftermarket rotors and less friction pads and yes, your brakes will last longer, but it costs you in braking performance.
I'm sure you be well aware of that, being a brake supplier and all. :yup:

[planetdavo]

With all due respect this forum is not your holden dealership spares division.Your defence of genuine parts quality in this instance apppears to be blinding you of what is reality.The reality is you have dismissed this product based on price and country of origin without even viewing it.

You are entitled to your opinion, but if you read back, you will find that I was defending the reputation of AP Racing against a low volume unknown brand product that's just 1/4 the price. I'm not exactly a newcomer to the world of aftermarket brakes my friend.
Surely that price must raise questions in your mind?
Maybe not by the sound of it. :confused:

[VX2VESS]

Or it an invitation to rip unknowing people of :):)

In some cases a high cost unit could be coming from the same Chinese factory, one is more because of the name.

[Plenty]

Or it an invitation to rip unknowing people of :):)

Mercedes and Holden both make cars yet Mercedes is much more expensive, is it just them ripping people off or is it the countless hours of research, the extra technology in the product?
Granted there might be a small badge inflation on the product but i'll pay it for the assurance. Just like that brand name exhaust Davo is referring too.

[Plenty]

Thankyou for your feedback it appears the supplier has been true to his word and is now offering a level of quality which may well prove to be above that of oem.



While i'm usually the first to disagree with PD, these are not just genuine Holden items they are AP rotors, there's not too many better brands in the brake world.

It's funny how steel is steel until something goes wrong, think Titanic?
Just plain old steel except there was to too much slag in it.

Point is rarely can something that is made with so much testing and research be duplicated to cost 1/6 of the oem product.

[clubbie]

It's kind of amusing how you pretend to know so much on this subject, yet you feel the need to resort to immature "planetboy" jibes to look like a hero in front of people similar to you...:spew:
Just because two things look the same doesn't mean they are the same. Anyone with a brain should be asking why they differ, rather than just being blinded by a cheaper invoice leaving more cash in their wallet. :teach:
:goodjob:

100% markup by Holden/HSV dealers.

How do you know what the quality of the product is like? Have you compared the two. Nope. Just making assumptions..Yep. So take the quality issue out of the equation just leaves you with 100% markup by Holden/HSV dealers.

I will say it in simpleton terms for you PD. The ebay seller has virtually no overheads vs a dealer whom may have a $million+ overheads and stock.

If warranty is an isuue - well don't buy on ebay.

So the facts as we know them are both discs are made in china one costs $150 the other $600. One with national dealer support the other with none.

Now that we agree to disagree it is up to each individual to make a decision of $300 vs $1200 every 30 000kms or so.

Clubbie

[duke5700]

Sooooo after all this banter. Have you put them on the car yet and where they anygood?

[S&S]

You are entitled to your opinion, but if you read back, you will find that I was defending the reputation of AP Racing against a low volume unknown brand product that's just 1/4 the price. I'm not exactly a newcomer to the world of aftermarket brakes my friend.
Surely that price must raise questions in your mind?
Maybe not by the sound of it. :confused:
This is getting a bit off topic but I'll give it one last shot.I know you are defending the reputation of AP, my question is why???
Do you own the company?
Do you want everyone to pay top dollar for the same machined cast iron?
The price did raise questions in my mind this is why I asked for feedback and got two glowing reviews so far.
PD do you even have this kit on your car??? I don't think you have so it should not matter to you.Something tells me you are suffering from a bit of Gerry Harvey sindrome.End rant:):)


100% markup by Holden/HSV dealers.

How do you know what the quality of the product is like? Have you compared the two. Nope. Just making assumptions..Yep. So take the quality issue out of the equation just leaves you with 100% markup by Holden/HSV dealers.

I will say it in simpleton terms for you PD. The ebay seller has virtually no overheads vs a dealer whom may have a $million+ overheads and stock.

If warranty is an isuue - well don't buy on ebay.

So the facts as we know them are both discs are made in china one costs $150 the other $600. One with national dealer support the other with none.

Now that we agree to disagree it is up to each individual to make a decision of $300 vs $1200 every 30 000kms or so.

Clubbie
Thank you Clubbie saved me some typing
So to the members that have this kit we have at the best prices I had
Geniune AP $450+ each
DBA equivalent Hat and rotor $550+ each
RDA $330+ each
or the Ebay to good to be true $150 each

Duke I tried to get some pads today but they were out of stock, should have them tomorrow.I will try to get them fitted tomorrow if time allows.

[keith reed]

We went to the Queensland raceway last week for the raising of money for the flood relief. The aircon doesn't work on the vt so we took the ve. In one sense it was the right decision and another it was wrong. We with everyone else had more than a few canters around the race track. Nothing serious but it did not take to many laps for the brakes on the ve to become very ordinary. I wish (hindsight being a wonderful thing) that I could have gone around in the vt with it's elcheapo rotors. If I ever get the chance again I will take the vt and report on the rotors ability to stand up to the vigours of mild track life.

[Plenty]

We went to the Queensland raceway last week for the raising of money for the flood relief. The aircon doesn't work on the vt so we took the ve. In one sense it was the right decision and another it was wrong. We with everyone else had more than a few canters around the race track. Nothing serious but it did not take to many laps for the brakes on the ve to become very ordinary. I wish (hindsight being a wonderful thing) that I could have gone around in the vt with it's elcheapo rotors. If I ever get the chance again I will take the vt and report on the rotors ability to stand up to the vigours of mild track life.

The fact that the VE brakes (minor improvements aside) date back to... well the VT, so it should come as no surprise that at 100+ KG heavier it will fade.
The VE use a PBR set-up from memory and a crap one at that and are renowned for fade.

No denying good manufacturers make a cheap range for the average person, but the HSV brakes are not an average set-up.
Compare the latest MOTOR mag
100Km/H - 0Km/H

F6 ute 6 piston Brembo option 39.13m 1814KG
GS ute 2 piston standard set-up similar to VE SS 38.83m 1861KG
HSV Maloo standard 4 piston AP Racing 36.64m 1823KG

I'm sorry but if you for one second think that those nasty $150 rotors will perform the same as the AP's please wake-up.:confused:

maybe we could all get a deal on these rotors with a free set of OEM beating Nankang tyres!
:rofl:

[Brandonsdad]

The fact that the VE brakes (minor improvements aside) date back to... well the VT, so it should come as no surprise that at 100+ KG heavier it will fade.
The VE use a PBR set-up from memory and a crap one at that and are renowned for fade.

No denying good manufacturers make a cheap range for the average person, but the HSV brakes are not an average set-up.
Compare the latest MOTOR mag
100Km/H - 0Km/H

F6 ute 6 piston Brembo option 39.13m 1814KG
GS ute 2 piston standard set-up similar to VE SS 38.83m 1861KG
HSV Maloo standard 4 piston AP Racing 36.64m 1823KG

I'm sorry but if you for one second think that those nasty $150 rotors will perform the same as the AP's please wake-up.:confused:

maybe we could all get a deal on these rotors with a free set of OEM beating Nankang tyres!
:rofl:

Well they look the same, so they must be the same, lol.:)

[keith reed]

The fact that the VE brakes (minor improvements aside) date back to... well the VT, so it should come as no surprise that at 100+ KG heavier it will fade.
The VE use a PBR set-up from memory and a crap one at that and are renowned for fade.

No denying good manufacturers make a cheap range for the average person, but the HSV brakes are not an average set-up.
Compare the latest MOTOR mag
100Km/H - 0Km/H

F6 ute 6 piston Brembo option 39.13m 1814KG
GS ute 2 piston standard set-up similar to VE SS 38.83m 1861KG
HSV Maloo standard 4 piston AP Racing 36.64m 1823KG

I'm sorry but if you for one second think that those nasty $150 rotors will perform the same as the AP's please wake-up.:confused:

maybe we could all get a deal on these rotors with a free set of OEM beating Nankang tyres!
:rofl:

You are the first person who has done a comparison test on these nasty $150
rotors versus ap rotors in this thread. Pity you did not post before.

[STod.]

Plenty, I thought the same as you but for $600 (the cost of one genuine front rotor) for all 4 rotors I thought I’d give them a shot. And I was pleasantly surprised. Credit where credits due. I don’t trash my car on the track but I do give it quite a bit. And honestly, performance wise I can’t tell the difference between these and the genuine rotors.

The guy that sells these is very easy to deal with. The front pair I received had a few dents and scrapes on them but I rang the guy, sent him photos and they were replaced. So if anyone does get them, check their condition straight away.

[Evman]

Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence of ADR approval on these things? If something did go wrong and an accident followed, where would the traceability lead to and where would the responsibility lie?

[Steve-LS2]

The fact that the VE brakes (minor improvements aside) date back to... well the VT, so it should come as no surprise that at 100+ KG heavier it will fade.
The VE use a PBR set-up from memory and a crap one at that and are renowned for fade.

No denying good manufacturers make a cheap range for the average person, but the HSV brakes are not an average set-up.
Compare the latest MOTOR mag
100Km/H - 0Km/H

F6 ute 6 piston Brembo option 39.13m 1814KG
GS ute 2 piston standard set-up similar to VE SS 38.83m 1861KG
HSV Maloo standard 4 piston AP Racing 36.64m 1823KG

I'm sorry but if you for one second think that those nasty $150 rotors will perform the same as the AP's please wake-up.:confused:

maybe we could all get a deal on these rotors with a free set of OEM beating Nankang tyres!
:rofl:

Not questioning your typing ability or anything, how does a GS ute that is heavier and with smaller brakes, stop better than the F6 with 6 pot brembo's?

Why bother with Brembo's if you can slow down better without them??

[the big fist]

Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence of ADR approval on these things? If something did go wrong and an accident followed, where would the traceability lead to and where would the responsibility lie?

Just like anything you do to your car, if it is outside allowable mods for your state then it's up to you to get it approved.
ADR's define brake performance, not materials.
Australian standards exist for brake shoes and pads but I couldn't seem to find one for rotors.

[Evman]

Just like anything you do to your car, if it is outside allowable mods for your state then it's up to you to get it approved.
ADR's define brake performance, not materials.
Australian standards exist for brake shoes and pads but I couldn't seem to find one for rotors.

Factory upgrades aren't outside allowable mods though surely? I don't know how it'd relate between HSV brakes on Holden cars though. Fair call about ADRs and standards, I was sure someone would have a better idea than me. What I was getting at was whether or not the mystery manufacturer had any responsibility for these if there was something faulty with them. As much as I hate the blame culture, it's just good to know where one stands.

[LooneyR8]

Just like anything you do to your car, if it is outside allowable mods for your state then it's up to you to get it approved.
ADR's define brake performance, not materials.
Australian standards exist for brake shoes and pads but I couldn't seem to find one for rotors.

The ADR's for Braking are as follows...

31/00 Ceased from 29th Sept 2006
31/01 Current
31/02 From 1st November 2011

Find all the info at http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2010C00150

[planetdavo]

I know you are defending the reputation of AP, my question is why???
Do you own the company?
Do you want everyone to pay top dollar for the same machined cast iron?
The price did raise questions in my mind this is why I asked for feedback and got two glowing reviews so far.
PD do you even have this kit on your car??? I don't think you have so it should not matter to you.



I'm rather glad you asked if I have these brakes fitted.
YES I DO ACTUALLY!!! The CV8 plaything does have these AP Racing brakes fitted, and no, there is no way in hell I would EVER fit brake components that only come with the "reputation" I've read so far! Same cast iron? What, because it LOOKS like the same cast iron? Get real dude!
Brakes and tyres are the only things stopping you, and I do not want to find out in an emergency that some no name ebay brake special let's me down.
I'm more than happy to spend 3 times the money to know that I'm buying a premium product, because I'm happy remaining vertical. If people can't afford a quality product then they shouldn't have them fitted. Good brakes, good tyres. Can't afford them? Can't afford to own that car.

[hRTHSV]

I'm rather glad you asked if I have these brakes fitted.
YES I DO ACTUALLY!!! The CV8 plaything does have these AP Racing brakes fitted, and no, there is no way in hell I would EVER fit brake components that only come with the "reputation" I've read so far! Same cast iron? What, because it LOOKS like the same cast iron? Get real dude!
Brakes and tyres are the only things stopping you, and I do not want to find out in an emergency that some no name ebay brake special let's me down.
I'm more than happy to spend 3 times the money to know that I'm buying a premium product, because I'm happy remaining vertical. If people can't afford a quality product then they shouldn't have them fitted. Good brakes, good tyres. Can't afford them? Can't afford to own that car.

I think your are right but only to a point. I just priced a set of Yokohama A050's for my track car today but they certainly aren't the tyres that car wears on the road, and when the VZ HSV AP disc's wear out on it (VS) I'll go for disc's and hats. But for my VZ HSV with the same brakes I'm not sure what I'll do with those discs if I ever drive it enough to wear them out.

Look at a Stock VZ SS against a VZ HSV with the AP's and on one stop the difference is not very much and on some occasions will actually favour the SS, I am talking about 1 stop. But on the 2nd and subsequent stops with hot brakes the HSV wins hands down. Now in a normal road car emergency scenario 1 hard stop is all that is required. So as long as the disc performs in these circumstances they will suit 90% of buyers.

Do you run A050's or RE55's etc on your Monaro?? Brakes are only as good as your tyres if you want to get technical about it.

[Plenty]

Not questioning your typing ability or anything, how does a GS ute that is heavier and with smaller brakes, stop better than the F6 with 6 pot brembo's?

Why bother with Brembo's if you can slow down better without them??

It's test facts from Motor magazine last month not my own words, as for the bad performance of the Brembos, who knows? but i'm sure they'll stay with you when the going gets tough, i doubt the GS ones would.

[S&S]

I'm rather glad you asked if I have these brakes fitted.
YES I DO ACTUALLY!!! The CV8 plaything does have these AP Racing brakes fitted, and no, there is no way in hell I would EVER fit brake components that only come with the "reputation" I've read so far! Same cast iron? What, because it LOOKS like the same cast iron? Get real dude!
Brakes and tyres are the only things stopping you, and I do not want to find out in an emergency that some no name ebay brake special let's me down.
I'm more than happy to spend 3 times the money to know that I'm buying a premium product, because I'm happy remaining vertical. If people can't afford a quality product then they shouldn't have them fitted. Good brakes, good tyres. Can't afford them? Can't afford to own that car.
:fishing::fishing::fishing::)

You've just been punk'd.You do get under the skin of some people PD hence the name calling you recieve,it's not that good being on the other end is it?.I'm fine with it but it would be nice if you had some more tech input to go with your opinion.Cast iron is not all the same I think you should realise I know that as that is my trade.Look here if you want to learn something,all the answers are there if you can put two and two together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron

If you want to continue to buy the genuine rotors then you had better be quick as the rears I am told are going out of production in the near future.I don't know why you keep using the money card it's more about trying to get better value.If you can I.D. that coilover you will know that some money has been spent.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/brettavtss/Ebayrotor.jpg



I think your are right but only to a point. I just priced a set of Yokohama A050's for my track car today but they certainly aren't the tyres that car wears on the road, and when the VZ HSV AP disc's wear out on it (VS) I'll go for disc's and hats. But for my VZ HSV with the same brakes I'm not sure what I'll do with those discs if I ever drive it enough to wear them out.

Look at a Stock VZ SS against a VZ HSV with the AP's and on one stop the difference is not very much and on some occasions will actually favour the SS, I am talking about 1 stop. But on the 2nd and subsequent stops with hot brakes the HSV wins hands down. Now in a normal road car emergency scenario 1 hard stop is all that is required. So as long as the disc performs in these circumstances they will suit 90% of buyers.

Do you run A050's or RE55's etc on your Monaro?? Brakes are only as good as your tyres if you want to get technical about it.

I would be interested to see the price you were quoted and size.Discs and hats on the VS? I would not go with DBA the seem fine for street use but that kangaroo paw setup does not flow to well and there is also something not quite right with the cast iron mix they are using.

[Plenty]

If you can I.D. that coilover you will know that some money has been spent.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/brettavtss/Ebayrotor.jpg






so your willing to spend thousands on coil overs but want to skimp on rotors? :confused: sounds silly to me.
I can understand that the OEM is expensive but using an el cheapo $150 rotor in a track car is just plain DUMB!

[the big fist]

The ADR's for Braking are as follows...

31/00 Ceased from 29th Sept 2006
31/01 Current
31/02 From 1st November 2011

Find all the info at http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2010C00150

Appreciated, I have them on cd at work. But if you read them, they are not a standard to the construction of the brake disc rotor. The closest you get is that they must not corrode. They define the performance of the brake system and what materials are allowed for the friction material.

Evman, thats right, but they arent factory upgrades, they are copies.
Bit of a grey area !

[the big fist]

so your willing to spend thousands on coil overs but want to skimp on rotors? :confused: sounds silly to me.
I can understand that the OEM is expensive but using an el cheapo $150 rotor in a track car is just plain DUMB!

I think it more being an issue that the rotors are almost a consumable like the pads. Whereas a shockie is there for good.....you hope

[S&S]

And I was pleasantly surprised. Credit where credits due. I don’t trash my car on the track but I do give it quite a bit. And honestly, performance wise I can’t tell the difference between these and the genuine rotors.


Well I'm with you I have now put these through a few heat cycles and without giving them a few real hard stops yet they feel the same as the genuine rotor.The wearing surfaces have a surface ground finish which now show signs of bedding in and the under foot pedal feel is the same as usual.These are meant to be harder than the genuine but the pads still bite nicely without any squeel.I was sus that the casting may have because of the low price hard spots through it which can give you a warped disc type feel and some grinding but all good so far.Tomorrow I will be in an area where there are some good roads to test them so we'll see how they go.I wouldn't mind giving these a run at the track but this set was bought as my road set and now that they have been used with the DS2500 I don't want to use my track pads with them,this is because of material transfer reasons.

[Evman]

Evman, thats right, but they arent factory upgrades, they are copies.
Bit of a grey area !

This is true. I think it's just a can of worms best left unopened :lol:

[planetdavo]

Do you run A050's or RE55's etc on your Monaro?? Brakes are only as good as your tyres if you want to get technical about it.

I have Yokohama Advan V103's fitted, for a car that does on average 800km's per year...:yup:

[VYSHSV8]

I have Yokohama Advan V103's fitted, for a car that does on average 800km's per year...:yup:

Jeezus how long have they been fitted they would probably have gone of now

[S&S]

Ok I'll try not to bore you all with this post but i think I need to firstly go over a few things before giving my final judgement.I initially just put this thread up to show that there is a new option with rotor selection and leave it at that.Everything got a bit sidetracked with way to many BS posts including my own.So for a full review from the start it goes a bit like this.
They look the same as a genuine rotor = there are no signs of porosity both on the cast surfaces and the machined surfaces.This suggests that the material density is at least on par with the genuine rotor which is backed up as I posted earlier by there similar weights.Without the use of a surface plate,vernier height gauge and a few mics this is as accurate as I can estimate material density without using a metallurgists help.The casting appears uniform from a compound point of view both in a new state and after some wear on the contact surfaces.
Fitment was good to the hub and studs almost a transition fit which is similar to the genuine.The disc itself is the correct offset with its centreline and the centre line of the caliper matching.
Initial heat cycling and feedback was descibed in my post above with todays testing giving the same positive results.I run semi slick tyres on my car even for road use so the amount of load I can place on the rotors under braking is more than most will be able to achieve on the road.
In short I can't fault them,they are as good as my genuine ones at this point and only time will tell how well they wear.Like lots of chinese products no matter what the quality control is like you will always get some that don't make the grade and being a cast product faults do happen.I have a top brand new set of after market heads here cast and made in the U.S. with individual quality control stickers on them, one has a casting fault.

[Evman]

Cheers for the review

[planetdavo]

Jeezus how long have they been fitted they would probably have gone of now

They have been on for less than half the car's life. Car is parked in a cool fairly dark garage if not out on a weekend run. So, not so old and definitely not rock hard my friend. :)

[bee444]

Ok I'll try not to bore you all with this post but i think I need to firstly go over a few things before giving my final judgement.I initially just put this thread up to show that there is a new option with rotor selection and leave it at that.Everything got a bit sidetracked with way to many BS posts including my own.So for a full review from the start it goes a bit like this.
They look the same as a genuine rotor = there are no signs of porosity both on the cast surfaces and the machined surfaces.This suggests that the material density is at least on par with the genuine rotor which is backed up as I posted earlier by there similar weights.Without the use of a surface plate,vernier height gauge and a few mics this is as accurate as I can estimate material density without using a metallurgists help.The casting appears uniform from a compound point of view both in a new state and after some wear on the contact surfaces.
Fitment was good to the hub and studs almost a transition fit which is similar to the genuine.The disc itself is the correct offset with its centreline and the centre line of the caliper matching.
Initial heat cycling and feedback was descibed in my post above with todays testing giving the same positive results.I run semi slick tyres on my car even for road use so the amount of load I can place on the rotors under braking is more than most will be able to achieve on the road.
In short I can't fault them,they are as good as my genuine ones at this point and only time will tell how well they wear.Like lots of chinese products no matter what the quality control is like you will always get some that don't make the grade and being a cast product faults do happen.I have a top brand new set of after market heads here cast and made in the U.S. with individual quality control stickers on them, one has a casting fault.

thanks for the feed back, I have been waiting for your review from the start:goodjob:
I am one of the people that shouldn't own my car because I cant afford/dont see the value of the genuine rotors!!

[keith reed]

Ok I'll try not to bore you all with this post but i think I need to firstly go over a few things before giving my final judgement.I initially just put this thread up to show that there is a new option with rotor selection and leave it at that.Everything got a bit sidetracked with way to many BS posts including my own.So for a full review from the start it goes a bit like this.
They look the same as a genuine rotor = there are no signs of porosity both on the cast surfaces and the machined surfaces.This suggests that the material density is at least on par with the genuine rotor which is backed up as I posted earlier by there similar weights.Without the use of a surface plate,vernier height gauge and a few mics this is as accurate as I can estimate material density without using a metallurgists help.The casting appears uniform from a compound point of view both in a new state and after some wear on the contact surfaces.
Fitment was good to the hub and studs almost a transition fit which is similar to the genuine.The disc itself is the correct offset with its centreline and the centre line of the caliper matching.
Initial heat cycling and feedback was descibed in my post above with todays testing giving the same positive results.I run semi slick tyres on my car even for road use so the amount of load I can place on the rotors under braking is more than most will be able to achieve on the road.
In short I can't fault them,they are as good as my genuine ones at this point and only time will tell how well they wear.Like lots of chinese products no matter what the quality control is like you will always get some that don't make the grade and being a cast product faults do happen.I have a top brand new set of after market heads here cast and made in the U.S. with individual quality control stickers on them, one has a casting fault.

Thanks for that. You have gone to a lot more bother than I would have. I have had no problems with mine so far. What we need now is a report back in a years time as to the quality of the rotors. Quite happy to be part of that review.

[Plenty]

I am one of the people that shouldn't own my car because I cant afford/dont see the value of the genuine rotors!!

You said it mate, can't maintain it don't buy it!

[VYSHSV8]

Not having a go at anyone but do Hsv tell you of the costs involved ie rotor change may be needed at certain amount of km's

I doubt they would because people wouldn't buy them :):)

[VYSHSV8]

They have been on for less than half the car's life. Car is parked in a cool fairly dark garage if not out on a weekend run. So, not so old and definitely not rock hard my friend. :)

Ah fair enough advans are a good tyre but not that good :):)

And yes I have had them and there are alot of better tyre for a shit load cheaper that will outperform them:):)

[planetdavo]

Ah fair enough advans are a good tyre but not that good :):)

And yes I have had them and there are alot of better tyre for a shit load cheaper that will outperform them:):)

My "sh!t" Advans do an exceptional job on the play thing.
Perhaps the setup of your car's suspension requires a different sort of tyre. However, as we all know, opinions on tyres are a bit like @rseholes. Everyone's got one. :)

[planetdavo]

Not having a go at anyone but do Hsv tell you of the costs involved ie rotor change may be needed at certain amount of km's

I doubt they would because people wouldn't buy them :):)

They don't because there is no need to have a policy like that.
Some people are lucky to get 20,000kms from rotors. Others get 100,000kms.
Guess the peanut driving the car is the "problem", rather than the product. :yup:

[STod.]

Ok I'll try not to bore you all with this post but i think I need to firstly go over a few things before giving my final judgement.I initially just put this thread up to show that there is a new option with rotor selection and leave it at that.Everything got a bit sidetracked with way to many BS posts including my own.So for a full review from the start it goes a bit like this.
They look the same as a genuine rotor = there are no signs of porosity both on the cast surfaces and the machined surfaces.This suggests that the material density is at least on par with the genuine rotor which is backed up as I posted earlier by there similar weights.Without the use of a surface plate,vernier height gauge and a few mics this is as accurate as I can estimate material density without using a metallurgists help.The casting appears uniform from a compound point of view both in a new state and after some wear on the contact surfaces.
Fitment was good to the hub and studs almost a transition fit which is similar to the genuine.The disc itself is the correct offset with its centreline and the centre line of the caliper matching.
Initial heat cycling and feedback was descibed in my post above with todays testing giving the same positive results.I run semi slick tyres on my car even for road use so the amount of load I can place on the rotors under braking is more than most will be able to achieve on the road.
In short I can't fault them,they are as good as my genuine ones at this point and only time will tell how well they wear.Like lots of chinese products no matter what the quality control is like you will always get some that don't make the grade and being a cast product faults do happen.I have a top brand new set of after market heads here cast and made in the U.S. with individual quality control stickers on them, one has a casting fault.

It seems as though the people who have actually tried these rotors have good things to say about them. The only negative comments are from people who have never tried them. In saying that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Just remember, cheap doesnt always mean shit.

[planetdavo]

It seems as though the people who have actually tried these rotors have good things to say about them. The only negative comments are from people who have never tried them. In saying that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Just remember, cheap doesnt always mean shit.

Unless it's a thread about dealer servicing, it's massively rare to ever read about anyone saying they actually wasted their money on here.
I'm sure most people will be more than happy as long as they don't either explode or vibrate severely. Whether they perform as well is a different question, but they are cheap, and that is all most will care about.

[keith reed]

Unless it's a thread about dealer servicing, it's massively rare to ever read about anyone saying they actually wasted their money on here.
I'm sure most people will be more than happy as long as they don't either explode or vibrate severely. Whether they perform as well is a different question, but they are cheap, and that is all most will care about.

I have said that I will report back on the performance of the rotors. I have also said that I have had no issues with these rotors to date. If in the future I have a problem with them I will say so. Conversely if they are good I will also report back. Had you thought of the possibility these rotors are equal to the ones you have and the only difference is the price? If you have any evidence that they are of poor quality then you should say so. So far there has only been rhetoric.

[Skedy]

all pd evers says is rhetoric...

[hRTHSV]

Unless it's a thread about dealer servicing, it's massively rare to ever read about anyone saying they actually wasted their money on here.
I'm sure most people will be more than happy as long as they don't either explode or vibrate severely. Whether they perform as well is a different question, but they are cheap, and that is all most will care about.

Mate seriously you have got to be kidding!

[STod.]

Unless it's a thread about dealer servicing, it's massively rare to ever read about anyone saying they actually wasted their money on here.
I'm sure most people will be more than happy as long as they don't either explode or vibrate severely. Whether they perform as well is a different question, but they are cheap, and that is all most will care about.

I dont think I agree with anything youve said here. Ill be the first to admit if Ive bought something that didnt turn out that well and Im sure a lot of others on here would do the same. I know you work for holden it would be hard for you to image that you can actually get some good gear for a lot less than holden charges.

[BECAUZ]

Wow a lot of crap to read thru to find out the review. Why are some ppl here oh so difficult and anal?

Congrats for tryin somethin different out S&S, happy it worked out and thanks for the review. I see it as pointless to throw out money for something u can get cheaper if its almost identical, and im sure most people do unless they work for holden and have been brainwashed.

[TUFFIE]

very interesting read S&S....hmmm same ppl with negative things to say as in the group buy thread that I have going at the moment.....

Wonder if RDA will jump on here as well.....

Cheers S&S based on your experience I am pretty keen to fit them on the car and find out myself.

[VYSHSV8]

very interesting read S&S....hmmm same ppl with negative things to say as in the group buy thread that I have going at the moment.....

Wonder if RDA will jump on here as well.....

Cheers S&S based on your experience I am pretty keen to fit them on the car and find out myself.
I will be keen as well Tuff once I get my HSV/ Harrop brakes for the VY :):)
Thats if the rotars are the same size and offset 350 mm fronts etc etc

[monaro327]

harrops are different mate. these are for the 4pot APs.

[monaro327]

S&S have the hubs rusted at all? thats my only concern about these rotors they don't seem to have a coating like APs or RDAs to stop the rust on the edge of the disc or the hub. also do the vents slop back like the APs or straight?

[S&S]

S&S have the hubs rusted at all? thats my only concern about these rotors they don't seem to have a coating like APs or RDAs to stop the rust on the edge of the disc or the hub. also do the vents slop back like the APs or straight?

I have very slight rust on the hub which could be fixed with a bit of heat proof paint but it seems to have stablised after a few weeks.Doing a little light reading this may have now formed some sort of barrier to prevent further rust from forming, cast iron looks to behave in a slightly different way to say mild steel which would continue to rust.If it is of concern to you look into it you may need to talk to a metallurgist to get a real answer.
The vents I think slope back like the AP's I'm 95% sure.

[stockergts]

Rda only has a coating on the gold series mate so yes they do rust unless you get them painted

[KCB50L]

so you find not all of the time but a cheaper aftermarket disc is alot better option in regards to performance pads have a harder compound that is correct but you can get performance based pads in a rotor friendly cmpound think lucas and ebc green

Are you kidding, I tried the "cheaper" RDA rotors and Lucus/ TRW pads in my clubsport, the rotors warped within 400km's and got replaced with DBA 5000's with have been on there for 11k now without sign of wear. lucas pads last no time, I went through 3 sets of them in 8 months in normal driving, went to the Bendix SRT's at the same time as the discs, little sign of wear yet, cheap is not always good.

[VYSHSV8]

Are you kidding, I tried the "cheaper" RDA rotors and Lucus/ TRW pads in my clubsport, the rotors warped within 400km's and got replaced with DBA 5000's with have been on there for 11k now without sign of wear. lucas pads last no time, I went through 3 sets of them in 8 months in normal driving, went to the Bendix SRT's at the same time as the discs, little sign of wear yet, cheap is not always good.
I have seen plenty of 5000 series rotors warp :)

[stockergts]

[QUOTE=KCB50L;1914648]Are you kidding, I tried the "cheaper" RDA rotors and Lucus/ TRW pads in my clubsport, the rotors warped within 400km's and got replaced with DBA 5000's with have been on there for 11k now without sign of wear. lucas pads last no time, I went through 3 sets of them in 8 months in normal driving, went to the Bendix SRT's at the same time as the discs, little sign of wear yet, cheap is not always good.[/QUOTE

i would asy then you are hard on brakes then however being a softer pad base means you will use them quicker pads come down to what the car is used for and how it is driven i would have been saying go to reds/yellows srts given you where going through them that quick