LS1 rebuild or replace?

[5.7heaven]

Hi everyone,
As the post states I've got a VX Berlina LS1 wagon. Its done 205,000km and there are a few lifters sticking. I'm unsure whether to rebuild and stroke the LS1, maybe go 383, or to remove it and replace it with either an L98/76. I'm after personal preferences to help swing me in a direction as I'm stuck on what to do. Budget is about 6-7000 and the car is a daily driver.
Thanks everyone

[Soopy]

I'd look into something with a 4" bore myself. But I don't have the runs on the board to back that up.

[ova400]

4" bore (L98, LS2 etc) would be the best bet and gives better head options later, but you may struggle to fit it in with that budget, even the stroker would be pushing your limits depending on what you already have done

[Soopy]

If he's going to rebuild, LQ9 block will be ALLOT cheaper.

Same 4" bore, Iron block.

[ebbett21]

Id just get the engine refreshened up with a nice cam, be alot cheaper than a 383 or new L98 ect.The extra money could be spent on other mods

[VTV691]

If you strech to 10-11k can you can get cammed L98 or maybe base LS3..
which I would lean to if I was you..

[ATOMIC 8]

I don't think you would build a good stroker motor for that sort of coin. With that budget you would be better of re-building what you have got with a nice cam and head package.

[Soopy]

If he builds it himself I dont see why he couldn't.
3.9" bore is going to be the limiting factor with the heads too.

One thing with strokers is you'll run into a bit more side loading on the pistons, because your rod ratio is going to be lower.
Thats why I suggested the larger bore to get more cubes, maintain the standard stroke and use a longer rod. Better for the motor in the long run. Can support higher RPM as well.
With a 4" bore you've a better selection of cylinder heads too imo.

[macca33]

You can still buy some VERY nice heads to suit a 3.9" bore diameter!

cheers

[Soopy]

Bang for buck though?
Considering the cost of a brand new LQ9 vs the bang for buck of a brand new motor? (You wouldnt be reusing pistons in a rebuild anyway)

[ATOMIC 8]

Yeah.. 4.00" bore is def the way to go with a set of quality high compression pistons.
If he did go the stroker route though and got everything done to support it, valvetrain, heads and machining etc., he might be stretching his budget.

[Soopy]

In my opinion, its better to take extra time and do it properly the first time. For me, I don't overly see the point in spending a large chunk of cash on a standard motor conversion. Not taking anything away from those that do it, Its just not my cup of tea. Thus my angle on the topic.

So if its going to stretch the budget, I'd either fix the current problem or wait a little longer untill I had the cash to do it.

[5.7heaven]

I've looked into the bigger block (4"), the short motor its about $4000 from COME, then its gotta be shipped, my motor pulled down and then everything applied to the new block. That's running std heads too, they're another $1500-2000. Just do to lifters is about $2500, wanting head and cam pack I'll pay about $6-7000. That's with the ls1. If I go for L98/76, most of the funds will be used in buying the engine and getting to run in the vx. So its either a stock 6L or a slightly modified LS1

[KrisR]

Suprised noone has asked this yet - What do you intend on doing with the car and what are your expections out of the motor?

[ATOMIC 8]

In my opinion, its better to take extra time and do it properly the first time. For me, I don't overly see the point in spending a large chunk of cash on a standard motor conversion. Not taking anything away from those that do it, Its just not my cup of tea. Thus my angle on the topic.

So if its going to stretch the budget, I'd either fix the current problem or wait a little longer untill I had the cash to do it.

Couldn't agree more.. Do it right and you will only do it once.

[ATOMIC 8]

Will you be doing the work yourself?

[5.7heaven]

The wagon is a daily driver. Im not building a quarter mile killer or a track car. I plan on keeping it for a few years and don't care about re-sale etc. Id be happy with 300rwkw as that's a target I had when I first bought it. I know with a stroker that's easily attainable, as with the 6L but maybe with cam and heads. The work will be done at a friends workshop, if I go stroking then the block honing etc will be done somewhere else

[ATOMIC 8]

Well I would just rebuild what you have got with some good pistons and a cam and head package.
You will def see over 300 rwkws with the right cam and heads..

[Soopy]

If you plan to rebuild it, you can get 6.2ltrs from an LQ9 block. Standard bore is 4.00" but there is enough material in them to go 4.065" overside (as Fraser from AES informed me.).
So you'll have 375ci with the standard stroke, with a 6.125" rod you'll have a better rod ratio which will decrease rod side loading and increase the likely longevity of your bottom end ( as opposed to degreasing both with the stroker kit).

Just my theory anyway.

[ebbett21]

Couldn't agree more.. Do it right and you will only do it once.

engine transplant cost 10 gran plus easy. For 6-7 gran it wont go far on a 383 stroker kit plus valvetrain and head work so a rebuild on his current LS1 properly be more realistic, and get a real nice engine from it

[Soopy]

But then you've still only got 346ci?

It would only be marginally more expensive to use an LQ9 block and do the exact same work, the standard block will still have to be machined before it can be rebuilt, you'll need to buy new pistons as the bores will need a hone a very least. So why not just use a 4" bore block to start with and have a minimum of 366ci which opens you up to an array of future modifications.

(Not having a dig, I would be genuinly intrested to hear the arguement FOR the 3.9" bore)

[Kingston_99]

to stroke the LS1, its only going to cost you just over 8K.....

Mine is nearly finished. 383 with blower.
i bought the blower myself. but got my tuner to fit and supply a forged 383 stroker kit. thats a Callies Compstar forged crank, Callies compstar H beams and SRP forged pistons. plus many more upgrades you need for a 383 stroker.

thats $8,100 drive in drive out.
i only went that route cuase i didnt do enough research and went and bought the blower before even thinking about 4" bores...:doh:

if i could have my time again i'd get an 4" bore block.

but if cash is on the short side, just stroke the LS1 to 383.

[Statowh]

Bigger is better :)

[pah]

Hi Guys,

If I had kept my VY Gen III SV8, I planned to fit a COME stroker V8:

"LS2 408 Stroker short motor. High compression or boost type Diamond Racing forged pistons, COME 4340 forged steel stroker crank, "H" beam rods all fully balanced internally. Brand new LS1 cylinder block fully machined fitted with our full stroker kit, your choice of COME camshaft includes new hydraulic roller lifters, Powerbond balancer, Dana timing chain set, new oil pump...assembled short block outright with new valley plate and timing case cover with cam sensor for only $8500.00 delivered in Australia!
http://www.comeracing.com/index.shtml"

Anybody tried one of these?



PAH

[El Narros]

Have you considered putting in a Miller Cycle engine?
These things go from 0-100km/h in like.... that.
I reckon it will give the Monaro a run for its money.

[vassis]

Heya guys I put a cammed L98 in my vx ss it ended up costing me about 8-9k (motor, cam, springs and tune) needed to cam to make that extra power. Made 400rwhp with baby tri-y extractors and standard cats. Its all the afterward parts that then blows your budget like things you break, diff gears, big extractors, pipes(if you want 300rwkw's its basicaly a must to cam). If you cam you need to properly gear it correctly or it wont feel right.

I chose the L98 cause i wanted a good base engine to work from since im making more than a cammed, big headed tuned ls1 would make with basicaly a standard engine but in the end more money is needed to properly setup the car and its what i figured out. Im at about 11-12 grand of mods/parts and still going.

Im in the process of getting 4.11 gears, 1 7/8 extractors and a good set of cats.. theres 2 -3k right there.

The missed question is.. is this car manual or auto??? because either way there is more money to be spent on converters (if cammed) and diff gears OR a heavy duty clutch and diff gears if manual.

In my opinion if you are driving this car every day i'd suggest rebuilding the motor you have and do a few little things (NO CAM) or drop a stock tuned L98 in it if you want to spend the money. Unless you have the desease most of us on this forum have where you keep wanting more then you have to pour 1/4 of your wage into the fuel tank every week just to get to work and back. But stay away from cams if you want to stick to that budget :)

Fuel is expected to reach 2 bucks a litre by the end of this year if that

Good luck

[***VX*R8***]

Heya guys I put a cammed L98 in my vx ss it ended up costing me about 8-9k (motor, cam, springs and tune) needed to cam to make that extra power.

Do you have a price breakdown at all and was the L98 new?
Also where did you get the work done?
Cheers.

[Tonner 73]

Built balanced and blue printed motor is better than a stock motor.
Ha thats my 2 cents
good luck

[Speedy Gonzales]

Fuel is expected to reach 2 bucks a litre by the end of this year if that


This is great news believe it or not, it means less traffic on the road, Im hoping it hits $2 or more by end of year, get rid of the farksticks who shouldnt even be on the road, be like open road driving once more round the suburbs :)

[peter b]

For your budget 6.125 H beam rods and Higher comp pistons match it up with either head work or aftermarket heads and a cam and your on the money. Nothing wrong with a 346ci given the right components can make them scream.
Don't need 4 inch bore and your budget won't allow for it. Please remember getting an L98/76 will have a 58 tooth reluctor and you have two choices a convertor box which may or may not be affected by heat etc or pull the crank out and change the reluctor wheel plus a 4 bolt cable throttle body and would have to be a complete engine with manifold etc. Not to mention injector plug adaptors, map sensor patch harness list goes on. Not saying it isn't a good upgrade just not feasible with your budget.

[VendeTTR]

Nothing wrong with a nice 346 LS1.

to the OP, Fix your lifter issues, fit a nice set of aftermarket heads (ETP, TFS, RHS etc) a Nice camshaft to suit and run 11's all day long with over 300 at the treads.

Well cheaper than an engine transplant. My brother has been there and put an LS3 in his pre VE, we both have similar rwkw ouputs, but im well ahead in the wallet department. :)

[munz]

. Just do to lifters is about $2500, wanting head and cam pack I'll pay about $6-7000. That's with the ls1.

who's quoting these figures lifter replacement isn't that expensive???

[boggers007]

who's quoting these figures lifter replacement isn't that expensive???

I was quoted 1300bucks for lifter replacement and dod removal in my L76 VE so shouldnt be that much at all

[ADAM 26]

if you want 300kw, just keep the motor you have now.

pull it down, freshen it all up, get a cam at least 23*/23* with .600 and get valve springs to suit. get your heads ported.
also, get some comp in there, not massive, but 12.1 would help it along.

im asuming you have the normal bolt ons? (otr, headers, exhaust?)

its auto, need to allow for a hi-stall and gears.
if manual, good clutch. diff gears.

[exwrx]

Nothing wrong with a nice 346 LS1.

to the OP, Fix your lifter issues, fit a nice set of aftermarket heads (ETP, TFS, RHS etc) a Nice camshaft to suit and run 11's all day long with over 300 at the treads.

Well cheaper than an engine transplant. My brother has been there and put an LS3 in his pre VE, we both have similar rwkw ouputs, but im well ahead in the wallet department. :)

Not having a go, but objectively which one is nicer to drive? :)

[VendeTTR]

Either or, both have built 4L60e's and convertors so the drivablility is pretty much the same. Mine has a bit more lope on idle which is more of a personal preference on my behalf.

But im about 6 grand or there abouts better off. In which im going to get a decent set of aftermarket heads (either ones of the heads i stated above).

Remeber the OP has stated that he has about 6-7g budget, and your not going to get an engine swap to a L98/LS3 installed for that. But you certainly can get a kick ass LS1 for that money if your wise enough on where you buy your parts from.

[vassis]

Do you have a price breakdown at all and was the L98 new?
Also where did you get the work done?
Cheers.

L98 crate motor brand new $4995
92mm fast throttle body $700
lingenfelter trigger converter $600
Wiring harness addons plus injector adaptors (map and knock sensor) $200ish
flywheel bolts $100
232 234 112lsa comp cam $700
psi long life springs $350
ls7 cam gear $100
arp bolts for cam $17
new dipstick and guide $80 (crate engine doesnt come with one)
spigot bearing $84
labour to instal cam and valve springs $1100
tune $800

I installed the engine myself but let my engine builder (hardcore performance in caboolture QLD)do the cam cause the L98 heads need to come off if you want to get to the lifters (didnt risk lifter dropping on cam install)

prolly 10 grand there now its on paper

[KrisR]

For an LS1 build i'd go again with Higgins ported heads, a cheap 2nd hand cam or just order a new custom grind, new rings and bearings if the bores/pistons are ok (if not you can get another shortblock cheap enough), get a tune, I reckon it'll come well under $7k. If you're doing the work yourself then i'd say you'll have a lot of change left over! My 160,000km motor when I did the heads/cam (224/230 @ 0.050) turned 302rwkw on Sonny's mainline and will chew about 10L/100km @ avg speed of 90km/hr.

[throttlehappy]

to stroke the LS1, its only going to cost you just over 8K.....

Mine is nearly finished. 383 with blower.
i bought the blower myself. but got my tuner to fit and supply a forged 383 stroker kit. thats a Callies Compstar forged crank, Callies compstar H beams and SRP forged pistons. plus many more upgrades you need for a 383 stroker.

thats $8,100 drive in drive out.
i only went that route cuase i didnt do enough research and went and bought the blower before even thinking about 4" bores...:doh:

if i could have my time again i'd get an 4" bore block.

but if cash is on the short side, just stroke the LS1 to 383.

howd it turn out?

[El Narros]

I believe the car has been sold and a ve wagon (v6) is on the way.

[throttlehappy]

ahhh thats no good

[Kingston_99]

howd it turn out?


I believe the car has been sold and a ve wagon (v6) is on the way.


ahhh thats no good

What! i think Narros is talking about the OP.

and as for me throttlehappy, im sure you allready now.