X5 3.0d vs Territory 2.7d

[Swordie]

Reading latest Wheels looks like Ford has delivered a great effort with new Terriority Diesel. It’s rated better than X5 Diesel. X5 has better motor, for the price Territory is a better overall package. I would think it will be a strong contender for Car Of The Year.

[SAMCRO]

With their cheap ass plastic dash... front wheels that buckle under car, engine that refuses to start or just stalls for no reason, fault with breaks.... I don't think so.
I had one, good value when bought second hand except for a few engeneering glitches that ford refused to take a responsibility for and also put Australian families at high risk motoring.
Every time I took it to Ford they either "fixed it" or "everything seems to be good".. :flipoff:
And yes the car was under factory warranty and I wasn't the only one with such memorable motoring experience ;)
Can't say nothing about X5 coz I haven't owned one so I better not say anything except that I'd like one :)
Just my 2 cent worth :goodjob:

[GODSMACK]

With their cheap ass plastic dash... front wheels that buckle under car, engine that refuses to start or just stalls for no reason, fault with breaks.... I don't think so.
I had one, good value when bought second hand except for a few engeneering glitches that ford refused to take a responsibility for and also put Australian families at high risk motoring.
Every time I took it to Ford they either "fixed it" or "everything seems to be good".. :flipoff:
And yes the car was under factory warranty and I wasn't the only one with such memorable motoring experience ;)
Can't say nothing about X5 coz I haven't owned one so I better not say anything except that I'd like one :)
Just my 2 cent worth :goodjob:

Youve owned one of the new 2.7L TD Territory's?

[planetdavo]

Wheels gave it a pretty good review, but they did bring up what every test so far has brought up, the lack of performance and particularly the snoozyness trying to get them moving.

[Phizzle]

Youve owned one of the new 2.7L TD Territory's?

Exactly, bit hard to compare a taxi motor in the old generation wagons to the new model with diesel powaaaah

[Wonky]

Youve owned one of the new 2.7L TD Territory's?

I suspect HoTBoZ was referring to other areas of the car which had issues and which Ford still don't seem to have got on top of 100% (from what I've read).

[planetdavo]

Exactly, bit hard to compare a taxi motor in the old generation wagons to the new model with diesel powaaaah

This motor came out in 2004, and has always had a bit of a reputation for lazyness in heavier applications. It's been superceded by a much more powerful twin turbo 3.0 litre version, perhaps freeing up the capacity Ford needed to do Territory.

[EfiJy]

As if I'd buy the Territory with all the issues its had......

As if the Territory and X5 are in the same target market.....

Typical Wheels propaganda if you ask me.

I know, nobody is asking me. :jester:

[Jarhead]

This motor came out in 2004, and has always had a bit of a reputation for lazyness in heavier applications. It's been superceded by a much more powerful twin turbo 3.0 litre version, perhaps freeing up the capacity Ford needed to do Territory.

Correct! The new V6 TD3.0 is in the Disco 4 and it is an absolute ripper.

The 2.7l powered the previous Disco but was regarded as under-powered for a 2.5 tonne vehicle (12.5 sec 0-100km/h).

The Terri is lighter by 500kg and the new tune puts it into the not-too-bad category. The target market is after pulling power - not straight line performance.

The real question is, is the diesel worth the extra money given the meager fule saving. The re-tunes I6 in the new Terri has average fuel consumption figure of 9.9l/100km - actual driving by mags has produced slightly better real life figures. The diesel has 8.9l/100km which makes it difficult to justify the extra up-front cost plus the extra at the pump.

I really wished they had gone the 3.0l TDV6 with 600nm of torque.

[VXSSgen3]

I really have a lot of trouble understanding why people constantly bag the Territory! The way some people on this and other forums (ford forums are the worst at bagging their own product) carry on, you would think driving one is a risk to life and limb! The wife and I have a Territory turbo ghia, 88,000kms on the clock, Sept. 06 model. It is modified (10 pounds boost, aftermarket BOV and pod filter mounted low, mid mufflers removed replaced by straight pipe) and so far in the 10 months we have owned it has needed a front diff bush, control trac arm bush, and the front balljoints (all replaced under warranty, no hassles whatsoever!)

It is a great car, in no way perfect, but what is? It carries my family and all their associated crap around with ease, averages 15 litres per hundred round town, this drops to just over 9 on the highway! Another myth (excessive petrol consumption) proven wrong, and remember, it is a turbo! It is also over 2 tonnes of SUV!

Bang for your buck, you can't beat them. They have some issues that are well documented, but if you can look past them (and don't compare a territory to a $200k car, like apples vs oranges) you will have the ideal people mover. The only other car that comes close, particularly to the TTG, is an X5 (remember, around 3 times the price for a similar spec).

As for the topic, if it comes down to bang for buck again-I think the Territory would win this argument by a long shot! If money is no object, of course you would buy an X5!

[EfiJy]

I really have a lot of trouble understanding why people constantly bag the Territory! The way some people on this and other forums (ford forums are the worst at bagging their own product) carry on, you would think driving one is a risk to life and limb! The wife and I have a Territory turbo ghia, 88,000kms on the clock, Sept. 06 model. It is modified (10 pounds boost, aftermarket BOV and pod filter mounted low, mid mufflers removed replaced by straight pipe) and so far in the 10 months we have owned it has needed a front diff bush, control trac arm bush, and the front balljoints (all replaced under warranty, no hassles whatsoever!)

It is a great car, in no way perfect, but what is? It carries my family and all their associated crap around with ease, averages 15 litres per hundred round town, this drops to just over 9 on the highway! Another myth (excessive petrol consumption) proven wrong, and remember, it is a turbo! It is also over 2 tonnes of SUV!

Bang for your buck, you can't beat them. They have some issues that are well documented, but if you can look past them (and don't compare a territory to a $200k car, like apples vs oranges) you will have the ideal people mover. The only other car that comes close, particularly to the TTG, is an X5 (remember, around 3 times the price for a similar spec).

As for the topic, if it comes down to bang for buck again-I think the Territory would win this argument by a long shot! If money is no object, of course you would buy an X5!

I think you answered your own question. There are far safer options as far as SUVs go. Mazda9, Kluger ring a bell. Failing that, Prado, Pajero etc. but these vehicles are a bit more expensive. Still a much safer buy than the Territory (and you mentioned the numerous problems but there are others - like rust problems - and it's easy to forgive someone for thinking "why the heck would you put yourself in that situation?"

[macca33]

I'll have to side with HotBoz and Efijy on this one and I am disappointed, personally, as I was seriously considering the leasing of a TurboDiesel Territory, because it is the only car of this type that I am allowed to novate....:bawl:

I believe the Herald-Sun Cars Guide stated it felt overwhelmingly underpowered and was a slight disappointment.

I do not know why Ford just didn't option up the TTDV63.0l, rather than its superseded cousin...:confused:

As for the comments regarding the 'Taxi engine,' what a load of garbage. The I6 worked very well in the Territory and produced plenty of power / torque - it was hampered by the fact that it drank more juice than a 6litre V8 - a LOT more. Let's not go into the front-end and other issues....

cheers

[mrtockley]

Meh, it's a 2 + ton diesel so I'm not sure what people expect. Ford obviously went with the older unit for cost cutting reasons plus they may not even of had the option to use the 3.0 lt.

If you want a performance diesel, you buy something like an Audi Q7. I've driven one and they are very nice but still hampered by the size and weight and that has 250 kW. It's just a 40 - 50k family truckster and does it's job of carrying kids and gear quite well. IMO, diesel is over rated anyway for the price you pay at the pump and the extra they sting you at the dealership, it's hard to justify.

[nikola]

I don't think the lack of urge is as big an issue as these car magazines make it out to be. I have a BA Falcon on gas only, and before I bought it, I read all sorts of reviews talking about how gutless it was, and how it has no torque, etc. And yet, I took one for a test drive, and I never once felt it lacked torque.

Same with this engine I'd imagine. For around town driving, I'm sure it's more than fine.

[planetdavo]

I don't think the lack of urge is as big an issue as these car magazines make it out to be. I have a BA Falcon on gas only, and before I bought it, I read all sorts of reviews talking about how gutless it was, and how it has no torque, etc. And yet, I took one for a test drive, and I never once felt it lacked torque.


Can't say I heard those "gutless" complaints myself, only that the lpg motor lost power and torque compared to the regular petrol version of the engine, and that it used quite a bit of lpg/100kms in comparison to petrol's L/100kms.

[SAMCRO]

I suspect HoTBoZ was referring to other areas of the car which had issues and which Ford still don't seem to have got on top of 100% (from what I've read).

Cheers Wonky :goodjob: Thats exactly what I referred too.
Looks like some ppl don't think before they make stupid comments like godsmack...
I was referring to the old model now and I'm not even considering taking a new one for a drive.
It's Fords laziness and lack of commitment that made ME not want to own one again. As for the new model I can't comment, but I don't expect it to be WOOWWW like everyone else. Putting a superseded diesel engine sounds to me like "by getting this older engine we are savings lots of $$$$ and pple won't know better as long as we push the diesel out"
Thats why they do it. They need to pump diesel powered Tez out to compete with holden bmw audi etc coz no ppl are buying their cars hence 300 jobs cut.. The only right move they did was to put ZF6 in their cars.
Ford sucks!!!

When you pay $200 G for a beemer you get what you pay for!! It might be a bit overpriced here in OZ but it's the BMW you'll be driving not ford..
If you have the funds the why wouldn't you??

[SAMCRO]

As for the comments regarding the 'Taxi engine,' what a load of garbage. The I6 worked very well in the Territory and produced plenty of power / torque - it was hampered by the fact that it drank more juice than a 6litre V8 - a LOT more. Let's not go into the front-end and other issues....

cheers

I know a few ppl with xr6 and they had experienced the same problems that I had in the Tez. Sometimes it just would not start, other times it would switch off at the lights etc....
As for the pwr I have to say Tez had plenty and coupled with zf6 it was delivered very efficiently.

[nikola]

Can't say I heard those "gutless" complaints myself, only that the lpg motor lost power and torque compared to the regular petrol version of the engine, and that it used quite a bit of lpg/100kms in comparison to petrol's L/100kms.

I only found one article, but from memory, most of them made an issue of it.

------------------------------------------------------
It’s only when you stand on the gas, pardon the pun, that you begin to notice the difference. Ford’s LPG powered Falcon feels quite lethargic and lacks the mid-range acceleration burst you would find in any other petrol powered Falcon. It is really noticeable when overtaking; there is a total lack of burst as you move to overtake, which finds you standing on the pedal for longer to get past slow moving cars.
------------------------------------------------------

They gave the performance, a two and a half score out of five. It may be lethargic compared to the petrol model, but it's not actually an issue for me. I find the power and torque acceptable. And despite the high consumption, it's still far, far cheaper to run than on petrol. I do 600km on a tank (mix of city and freeway), and it costs me $55 to refill. That's better than my previous car, the 1.8 liter Nissan Tiida.

So anyway, I think this diesel Territory may not be as bad as they are making it out to be. I would take one for a test drive to decide, instead of being put off by what the magazines write.

[ryno]

The new diesel in the Territory isn't as bad as people are making out. Off the mark its a little bit slower but pulls like a train once its on the move.

Its also very quiet in the cabin compared to other T/Diesels in the market..

[Skedy]

yeah i dont think people should be commenting about lag until they have driven one.

if you drive one normally you dont even notice it. not too mention you dont hear the diesel until you open the window.

when you boot it from the lights yes there is lag but what turbo car doesnt have lag?
any turbo car takes a few revs too get on song i dont see what the issue is here?

one thing i noticed with the carsguide review. ford said the diesel terry could do melb too sydney on one tank. roughly 900kms

now the carguide reviewer said he didnt make it. only issue i have is that he detoured too canberra on the way.... a great way to add some kms on and helping it to run out juice.....

[notorious_benny]

I will certainly be testing a new TD Territory........

I am looking to purchase a new 2300kg wake boat in the not too distant future and the wife has said NO to a dual cab :(

While the fuel savings when not towing might not be drastic, I can tell you if you add a 2.3 tonne boat to the back the petrol will drink at least double the juice. With that much boat on the back you dont get anywhere fast anyway.

Prados, Pajeros ect are more expensive than I am willing to pay, I am not interested in off roading. I just need something with a little extra traction at the boat ramp.

An AWD Territory can tow 2700kg so it is automatically on my buying list, I would hazard a guess that plenty of other people who tow heavy loads will be interested in having a look at them as well. I want something that can legally tow my boat and wont cost me an arm and a leg to purchase., I dont really care about any supposed long term 'issues' as my cars get rotated every 2 - 3 years anyway.

They are supposed to have the same interior as an FG?? If thats the case I would be happy enough. My old FG turbo was less plasticky than the cheap feeling interior in my Maloo.

[VXSSgen3]

I think you answered your own question. There are far safer options as far as SUVs go. Mazda9, Kluger ring a bell. Failing that, Prado, Pajero etc. but these vehicles are a bit more expensive. Still a much safer buy than the Territory (and you mentioned the numerous problems but there are others - like rust problems - and it's easy to forgive someone for thinking "why the heck would you put yourself in that situation?"

What situation? As I stated, we have had very few of the problems that keep getting repeated ad naseum by media/internet about the Territory. Diff bushes, front ball joints, brake shudder (a problem any commodore/falcon also shares) are all fairly minor issues to me, as I maintain my vehicles (as I'm sure most on this forum do, otherwise why would you be here?) I am yet to meet anyone that had their Territory lose its front end at 100km/h on the freeway due to a failed ball joint (talking to people who actually work on them, this is more likely to happen at slow speed in a carpark situation, and only if the issue is neglected for a long period of time!)

While all the vehicles you mentioned are great cars, the Territory met all our requirements, not some of them (unusual to find in a car!) It's not a perfect car by any stretch of the imagination, but is 5 star safety rated, has 7 seats, heaps of power (quicker than my SS!), loads of room, good towing capacity, reasonable service costs, and good economy for an over 2 tonne AWD SUV. All of the above are missing at least one if not more than one of these things.

No offence is intended to anyone, just defending a car that we have found to be great and feel cops some sometimes unjustified flogging (especially on the economy front.....like to see a petrol prado/pajero get similar figures to our TTG, and even if they did, they still aren't a turbo!)

[SV300]

I had a territory and had the usual issues in the suspension and ball joints etc.. mind you all fixed under warranty so no complaints.

I will add though I have seen front end go on a falcon bf taxi on the freeway in Brisbane stuck in the centre lane near mango hill. Scrape marks on freeway until he stopped.

I would still buy another territory if it was 4wd just so we can go to the beach and still tow my boat.

My mate has my territory and still going strong (nice tune in it). Kids still miss it.

James

[whitels1ss]

I would buy a Territory before a Craptiva.
Petrol or deisel.:)

[vecommo]

The only good Territory is one like this..

YouTube - Torched Car

[SAMCRO]

as I maintain my vehicles (as I'm sure most on this forum do, otherwise why would you be here?)

ERRRR Mybe to learn a thing or two or to give opinion, to ask annoying question and to socialise... to name a few reasons :stick::teach:

[planetdavo]

yeah i dont think people should be commenting about lag until they have driven one.

if you drive one normally you dont even notice it. not too mention you dont hear the diesel until you open the window.

when you boot it from the lights yes there is lag but what turbo car doesnt have lag?
any turbo car takes a few revs too get on song i dont see what the issue is here?

one thing i noticed with the carsguide review. ford said the diesel terry could do melb too sydney on one tank. roughly 900kms

now the carguide reviewer said he didnt make it. only issue i have is that he detoured too canberra on the way.... a great way to add some kms on and helping it to run out juice.....

For people that haven't read the current Wheels, here's some quotes. I actually commend Ford for (finally) releasing a diesel Territory, but it's quite clear that it's not the second coming...
"AWD models get a shorter final drive (3.46 compared to 3.23 in RWD) which doesn't disguise the Duratorque's lethargic throttle response off the line. The BMW takes ruthless advantage of the Ford's drivetrain weakness when we stop for an impromptu drag...It's a car length ahead before the Territory finally moves, ages after I've stomped the throttle. When the BMW hits 60km/h the BMW is four car lengths ahead. By 100km/h, enough is enough. The Duratorque has it's strengths, but performance isn't one of them."
"Away from outback drag strips, the Territory's lacklustre initial response is troublesome merging from a side street, or grabbing a gap in the next lane. It needs to be sharper."
So, that's just Wheels. Other reports say basically the same, so there is a pattern forming. Clearly 140kW and 440Nm are expected to provide better performance in comparison to diesel competition, not just more expensive ones like X5. The big problem with Terry looks to be a combination of a motor with an already lazy reputation, combined with 2132kgs of weight!
The point you may have missed about laggy diesels being the norm is that it's most noticeable on small capacity diesels, like 2.0 litres and under particularly. You'll also note that these comments relate to both initial launch and on the move performance, so it's across the board considered underwhelming.

[Spoolin]

I believe the front has had a complete redesign to resolve all the issues it had in the past, so past failures become quite irrelevant...Would this be the right time to add the Commodore is the most recalled Aussie built car in history?

Funny that people now want to mention performance, isn't ironic? Talk performce when talking about an SUV but talk about comlete package when you want to talk about Commodore V Falcon :goodjob:

[hRTHSV]

The thing that got me about the test is they said what a fantastic dash and interior it had, but if you go to the back in the price guide they can it for the interior and the dash. I'm confused.

[Spoolin]

Shoosh don't tell anyone...reading other peoples opinions automaticly makes you an expert, because we can believe everything in the media :rofl:

[mrtockley]

Sorry Davo, but I find it hard to believe your backing of a Territory wheels review when I've read you bagging both Wheels and MOTOR many times on this forum. Or do you only disregard their opinions when it differs from yours??

[EfiJy]

What situation? As I stated, we have had very few of the problems that keep getting repeated ad naseum by media/internet about the Territory. Diff bushes, front ball joints, brake shudder (a problem any commodore/falcon also shares) are all fairly minor issues to me, as I maintain my vehicles (as I'm sure most on this forum do, otherwise why would you be here?)

Well I'm here because its a Holden forum and not because I own a Terri.

You might maintain your vehicle and you might be relatively happy but not everybody is as pragmatic as you. By the same token, I'm sure you'd be at least as happy with a Mazda9 or Kluger.

5 star safety is irrelevant if you just had your Terri serviced and discovered that the front end just collapsed from underneath, that your car suffered from rust issues, brake issues etc...... not everybody is happy to give Ford another chance no matter how favourable the review in Wheels.

[VXSSgen3]

Well I'm here because its a Holden forum and not because I own a Terri.

You might maintain your vehicle and you might be relatively happy but not everybody is as pragmatic as you. By the same token, I'm sure you'd be at least as happy with a Mazda9 or Kluger.

5 star safety is irrelevant if you just had your Terri serviced and discovered that the front end just collapsed from underneath, that your car suffered from rust issues, brake issues etc...... not everybody is happy to give Ford another chance no matter how favourable the review in Wheels.

I own a Holden too, hence why I'm here, but I also find the discussions on this forum generally more intelligent than some ford forums or the fully sick crowd on SC forums. That said, I have 2 eyes, so that is why we also own a ford!

I'm very happy with the terry, it came down to a decision between the TTG or an SSV sportswagon-the TTG had more features that we wanted in a performance family wagon. While I agree that the Kluger and CX9 are both great cars (would seriously consider a CX9 next time!) they didn't get chosen because they didn't meet all our requirements (second hand prices of the CX9 compared to terry for age of car-hold their value VERY well!)

I do have an advantage here though-sis works in spare parts for a ford dealer, I did my first apprenticeship at a ford dealer, and still have contacts in the service department who look after me. The only example they could give of a territory actually having its front suspension collapse, the owner had had the noise for a long period of time, never got it checked, and suffered the consequences! Ford know there is a problem, and cover it by replacing the ball joints on all territorys under warranty up until 150000kms. More than fair, and not a problem if maintenance is kept up (ie hear a noise, get it looked at straight away, not next year!)

Rust issues-not a problem so far (car is now 5 years old) however I am pedantic about keeping my cars clean, I also know where the rust occurs, so ensure those areas are dry after I clean the car. Brake issues-yes, all discs need machining every second service (every 20000 kms), probably a bit underbraked for the size of the car, not much worse than any commodore from VT onwards (own a VX, so not biased) hopefully ford have addressed this for the new model.

Like any car out there, a lack of regular maintenance will cause problems. I do agree though that no amount of convincing will change someones mind if they have a bad experience (no matter what brand-even Toyota is not immune to this!)

[planetdavo]

Sorry Davo, but I find it hard to believe your backing of a Territory wheels review when I've read you bagging both Wheels and MOTOR many times on this forum. Or do you only disregard their opinions when it differs from yours??

Sorry tockles, but every single review anywhere since this came out have said the same things, and if you read back, you will find that comments relating to Wheels/Motor etc tend to be about their com-gen future model "scoops", which are full of ifs, maybe's, could haves, might haves etc, and no genuine info.
Quite different to a car that has actually been released!
I'm sure you''ll try again soon. :jester:

[planetdavo]

Funny that people now want to mention performance, isn't ironic? Talk performce when talking about an SUV but talk about comlete package when you want to talk about Commodore V Falcon :goodjob:

The forums old Ford mate Spoolin, popping up again...:lmao:
Perhaps you should add one to your Ford garage Spoolin, then you can tell us all about it's "performance".
I'll give you a little clue though fella. The subject of "performance" you are talking about is a boys club qtr mile :jerk: off thread, whereas "performance" in this instance relates to massive lag off idle and lack of overtaking/lane changing ability, a feature one suspects could be just a little bit important when mummy is taking the sprogs to school or to the shops...:idea:
I'm sure you'll be back soon for your next attempt. :)

[ryno]

whereas "performance" in this instance relates to massive lag off idle and lack of overtaking/lane changing ability,

It has a little lag not massive lag as you have read, and if you struggle to overtake in the new TD then you haven't put your foot down has ample enough power to do so.

I'm not basing this from what I have read but from driving the thing and others driving them had to ask if they were in the petrol or diesel, there just isn't that much of a difference that your average punter would notice.

[ssv402]

I think you answered your own question. There are far safer options as far as SUVs go. Mazda9, Kluger ring a bell. Failing that, Prado, Pajero etc. but these vehicles are a bit more expensive. Still a much safer buy than the Territory (and you mentioned the numerous problems but there are others - like rust problems - and it's easy to forgive someone for thinking "why the heck would you put yourself in that situation?"

Toyota offroaders still use frame on body construction. I agree with your comments earlier about target market, anyone buying like for like x5 would not go near a territory.
When the klugers were new one of the magazines managed to roll one in a pretty standard test, said the esp was the contributor.

Good to see ford having a go with the diesel finally at least, I hope the new territory is a big step up. Looks like alot of falcon parts have been used though.

[planetdavo]

It has a little lag not massive lag as you have read, and if you struggle to overtake in the new TD then you haven't put your foot down has ample enough power to do so.

I'm not basing this from what I have read but from driving the thing and others driving them had to ask if they were in the petrol or diesel, there just isn't that much of a difference that your average punter would notice.

The car is (finally) out there now. The critics have said their bit, now it's times for sales to do the talking. That will tell if the average punter agrees or not.

[notorious_benny]

Who really cares how fast a Territory is from a standing start ..... its an SUV not a sportscar or muscle car.

Kluger's and CX9's have wimpy tow ratings ...... the Terri will attract pelnty of interest with its tow rating alone.

I have always made fun of soft roaders ....... 'crap off road and compromised on the road' ...... however if you are like me and need something with a minimum tow rating of 2500kg your getting into proper 4x4 price range or tough but rough dual cab territory. A more car like SUV with AWD and enough tow capacity will appeal too many .... me included :)

You want to experience a lack lustre diesel?? Drive my old mans circa '05 3 litre T/D Navara ...... it cant even haul itself up a long hill at 100km/hr let alone with a modest sized boat on the back. :spew:

Or try an older Prado or old nissan patrol .... yikes they are seriously SLOW!

[Skedy]

davo have you driven one yet?
ive been driving them for the past 6 months the initial lag is there but its really not that bad. its like driving an NA diesel then you get the massive surge as it comes on boost.

if you cant overtake in this thing you shouldnt be driving on the road.... i mean shit id hate to see this guy review a barina, fiesta or something. they must be absolute death traps when merging and overtaking hahah

drag racing a terri and x5 is just stupid to if you ask me lol. soccer mums dragging each other around school zones lmao

wheels and motor lost me as a reader long ago anyway.

For people that haven't read the current Wheels, here's some quotes. I actually commend Ford for (finally) releasing a diesel Territory, but it's quite clear that it's not the second coming...
"AWD models get a shorter final drive (3.46 compared to 3.23 in RWD) which doesn't disguise the Duratorque's lethargic throttle response off the line. The BMW takes ruthless advantage of the Ford's drivetrain weakness when we stop for an impromptu drag...It's a car length ahead before the Territory finally moves, ages after I've stomped the throttle. When the BMW hits 60km/h the BMW is four car lengths ahead. By 100km/h, enough is enough. The Duratorque has it's strengths, but performance isn't one of them."
"Away from outback drag strips, the Territory's lacklustre initial response is troublesome merging from a side street, or grabbing a gap in the next lane. It needs to be sharper."
So, that's just Wheels. Other reports say basically the same, so there is a pattern forming. Clearly 140kW and 440Nm are expected to provide better performance in comparison to diesel competition, not just more expensive ones like X5. The big problem with Terry looks to be a combination of a motor with an already lazy reputation, combined with 2132kgs of weight!
The point you may have missed about laggy diesels being the norm is that it's most noticeable on small capacity diesels, like 2.0 litres and under particularly. You'll also note that these comments relate to both initial launch and on the move performance, so it's across the board considered underwhelming.

[Spoolin]

So Daveo, is it safe to assume you have in fact driven a brand new oil burner Territory?
Highly unlikely, you only have the capacity to regurgitate what has been printed in the media.

[Jarhead]

Having said I would love to see the 3.0 V6TD in the new terri I must admit that the very fact that people are comparing it to the BMW 3.0d is a credit to the Ford.

It may not be as quick or powerful but the driving dynamics are said to be better.

My wife's BMW 3.0d (2009) is roughly 8 sec to 100km/h. If the Terri can make it in less than 10sec then it makes it as fast as a BMW 320i. I realise this is a stupid comparison but it gives you a relative performance figure.

The real question remains - why go the diesel? If you pay 10c/litre more for diesel over petrol, then the saving is neutral. Then there's the whole price premium at the yard. Then servicing cost of diesel and turbo over the na I6.

Then there's the drama at the bowser. My wife could be in the minirity but I doubt it - a lot of women hate filling up at the diesel pump.

[Skedy]

its a pity they couldnt have used the 3.0 your right. it would have pushed the purchase price up though by a few thousand if they could even get there hands on them...

[mrtockley]

Sorry tockles, but every single review anywhere since this came out have said the same things, and if you read back, you will find that comments relating to Wheels/Motor etc tend to be about their com-gen future model "scoops", which are full of ifs, maybe's, could haves, might haves etc, and no genuine info.
Quite different to a car that has actually been released!
I'm sure you''ll try again soon. :jester:

I beg to differ Davo, MOTOR gave it a good review saying that although it had some lag off idle, once you are up and running it's no problem - Quoting "The torque moves the 2.1-tonne Territory quickly enough once you're on the move, but there is some lag when you go to accelerate quickly from rest. It's an affliction the Territory shares with many other modern diesels." And, "The more kays you clock up, the more you realise what a sweet combo this drivetrain is." In finishing - "And the end result is an Aussie-built family SUV that makes even more sense the second time around."

Doesn't sound like a bad review to me. Might have helped that they didn't pit it against a $92,100 BMW SUV that has 180 kW and 540 Nm and an 8 speed auto that also weighs less.

The Wheels review actually ended with a few positives that must have been omitted from your copy of wheels. I'll pop them in to bolster your "every single review anywhere since this came out have said the same things" comment.. "..it's apparent the Territory has scored an upset win. It's refinement and composure counted for more than the BMW's luxury allure and brilliant drivetrain. Neither had struggled with the terrain, but the Territory was more confident and comfortable." And, "The Territory is actually better equipped at $63K that the BMW is at $93K "[actual as testing price for the BMW was $101,499] The Terri scored 8.5/10 vs the BMW 8/10.

Apart from your well documented hatred of anything Ford, aren't you the champion of "performance doesn't matter - it's the total package" ? A la HSV's newly adopted mantra - I thought that was your dismissal for FPV's Coyote performance advantage?? Now it's all of a sudden important to be a whole car length ahead in a diesel drag race :confused: ? I know I know those traffic lights can be very dangerous if you can't leap forward quicker than the cars around you..

I read Wheels and MOTOR too, but either we get different versions or I read mine with both of my eyes open..

(Now to try and find a good sign off signature where I try to belittle the person I'm responding to, by intimating that they are 8 years old with mild autism, plus I'll probably need to throw in a Jester or a Good Job!)

[planetdavo]

Funny how the same two people follow me in just about every single thread I post in, just because I bruised their ego's about a year or two ago!
:lmao:
:confused:
:spew:

[planetdavo]

Reading latest Wheels looks like Ford has delivered a great effort with new Terriority Diesel. It’s rated better than X5 Diesel. X5 has better motor, for the price Territory is a better overall package. I would think it will be a strong contender for Car Of The Year.

Yes a good result for Territory, but I don't believe it is eligible for the award, as it really only has a different engine and revised front suspension on the same basic package as the 2004 winner, with cosmetic exterior and interior changes.

[Irish]

Yes a good result for Territory, but I don't believe it is eligible for the award, as it really only has a different engine and revised front suspension on the same basic package as the 2004 winner, with cosmetic exterior and interior changes.

You mean like when the VN won and then the VR won it with only slightly revised styling and engine.

[planetdavo]

You mean like when the VN won and then the VR won it with only slightly revised styling and engine.

Log onto Wheels website and check out the CURRENT criteria for eligibility.
VR was 18 years ago.

[Irish]

Log onto Wheels website and check out the CURRENT criteria for eligibility.
VR was 18 years ago.

The new territory seems to meet all 5 criteria for eligibility.

1. Function.
Does the same stuff as the last territory that won.
2. Technology
New touch screen techno crap.
3. Efficiency and environment
More fuel efficient than ever.
4. Safety
Can't get any higher than 5 star ANCAP
5. Value
Reasonably priced compared to its' competitors.

[planetdavo]

What it fails is not being sufficiently new. It's claimed a heap of mid life makeover and special edition models over the last few years.

[Ghia351]

Yes a good result for Territory, but I don't believe it is eligible for the award, as it really only has a different engine and revised front suspension on the same basic package as the 2004 winner, with cosmetic exterior and interior changes.
Oh come now, it has a new to Australian built car knee airbag to protect all those knockers...this alone should gain it eligibility.

[planetdavo]

Oh come now, it has a new to Australian built car knee airbag to protect all those knockers...this alone should gain it eligibility.

Send your disagreement into the Wheels offices at ACP. I'm just saying how it is. One airbag doesn't change the criteria.
As for the rest of Terry, the main change of substance is the "new" diesel engine, which was launched in 2004 and has been superceded, the "new" front suspension is from a near 3 year old Falcon, and the cosmetic interior/exterior changes aren't considered as "new".
Remember that the WHOLE range has to meet criteria, not just one cherry picked example. The petrol models are even less "new".
If you want Terry to win, possibly one of the multiple category "best car" awards like carsguide or racv/q/wa/nrma will come through for you.

[mrtockley]

Funny how the same two people follow me in just about every single thread I post in, just because I bruised their ego's about a year or two ago!
:lmao:
:confused:
:spew:

If you are referring to me and Spoolin, 'following' you around, you might need to check your ego bud. You are like the Herpes virus of this forum so it's hard not to follow you or your one eyed, pro Holden diatribe in many of these interesting threads. I can't speak for Spoolin but I know he drives a Ford now and I've owned many Fords as well as my current Holden and I appreciate that they both make great family cars and both have faults.

I try to have intellectual discussions with you - against the advice of other forum members who have known you longer - but it's to no avail. You are so one eyed and border line red neck with your slanted and skewed views that I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to marry your sister.

Every time you put up some rubbish that you've carefully chosen to read about a Ford product that highlights a negative aspect, you can't wait to jump all over it, but when someone counters your often flawed arguments, you resort to name calling or other stupid methods to try and deflect your lack of knowledge on anything non Holden. When a few people slap you down in a particular thread, you take your bat and ball and go home only to pop up again later - like an annoying red itch in some ones underpants - in yet another thread to spout facts about how Commodore's are outselling Falcons.

If you've got no interest (other than spouting negative propaganda) in regards to Territories or any other Ford product for that matter, then go and give input about things that you do know about - like the part number and price of dash trims.

I am - like others, seriously considering a Territory as my next car because my family has grown to 5, and my VE doesn't cut it as an effective method to carry kids plus luggage around in. You on the other hand will never ever get a Territory as long as Lions blood is pumping through your veins, because Grandpa always said Fords were shit. So be careful to read the thread headings and when it relates to a Ford product, you have the option of staying the Fu*k away from it.

Good day to you sir.

Kris out.

[blu ute]

I have driven plenty of non terries and have also driven x5 and x3 in both engines.
I found that a BMW is exactly that and the ford is a ford. Due to bad taste in peoples mouths in the faults of the terries I personally would be going BMW.
Ford will have to prove them selves with the new one.
But thats IMO
Cheers damo

[Ghia351]

Send your disagreement into the Wheels offices at ACP. I'm just saying how it is. One airbag doesn't change the criteria.
As for the rest of Terry, the main change of substance is the "new" diesel engine, which was launched in 2004 and has been superceded, the "new" front suspension is from a near 3 year old Falcon, and the cosmetic interior/exterior changes aren't considered as "new".
Remember that the WHOLE range has to meet criteria, not just one cherry picked example. The petrol models are even less "new".
If you want Terry to win, possibly one of the multiple category "best car" awards like carsguide or racv/q/wa/nrma will come through for you....:stick: err...I wasn't being serious in my last post.

You have made one small error my good man, the FG gained a version of the Terry front end and the new SZ epas comes from Mustang...could they be merging in stealth, lol...time to raid my daughter's easter egg stash.

[Swordie]

Reading COTY criteria it seems the new Territory is eligible to me. Simply it's a major upgrade.

http://motoring.ninemsn.com.au/reviews/coty/1021728/the-bible-coty-criteria

People will not be purchasing the Diesel for acceleration capabilities. Grey Nomads will be attracted to its economy and towing capacity. It will have plenty of go for highway passing which is more practical. Reading the article it seems a better proposition on rough country roads compared to the BMW.

[mjrandom]

We've had quite a few of the petrol territories as company buses and the only problem (like macca says) has been fuel consumption. Makes my current and previous R8 look economic! There have been a few problems with suspension and all were cured by warranty. No different to any of the other cars we have including my R8s which have spent more than their fair share of time in hospital.

It seems the petrol vs diesel debate will start afresh every time a diesel engine is released in something that isn't a truck. Haven't driven a terrortree with the 2.7 but drove quite a few discos and I like the engine! I would have bought a disco instead of the Prado if I could have found a white one at the time. And the territory should be better than the disco as it is about 700kg lighter. If you want doughy off the mark get a ride in a 407 or similar Pug. Hit the accelerator. Count to 4,312.2 and then off you go. That is worse than my Prado.

Horses for courses. I reckon there will be quite a few sales and as many happy people who just want some economy, bit of size and comfort and ease of driving that a 4wd doesn't offer. I would never buy one but then I wouldn't buy an X5 or (shudder) an X3 or any of the soft roading SUVs (wrote SUCs is that Freudian?) I use a 4wd as a 4wd and a car as a car and ne'er the twain shall meet!

[Spoolin]

Hang on a sec here. How many families would say hey lets buy a Territory, oh it's not perfect...f@%k it, lets spend an double and by an X5...

Shopping for champagne on a beer budget?

[mustanger]

Hang on a sec here. How many families would say hey lets buy a Territory, oh it's not perfect...f@%k it, lets spend an double and by an X5...

Shopping for champagne on a beer budget?

Yes , I think that these two vehicles are aimed at different markets. The price point alone , aims them at different shoppers .

[mjrandom]

I agree about the different markets but this is what the mags love to do. Let's take something Aussie and throw it against something European that costs 2x or 3x and see how it fares. From memory there have been Senator vs M5 etc. If you have the cash you will pay the extra. No one is going to leave the BMW showroom and stop at uncle Joes Ford dealership and walk out with a Territory and tell their friends we saved $60k and bought this!

I guess they think it sells magazines. There isn't anything in the Territories class that is even close on price is there? Cannot compare it to a real 4wd and the Japanese SUVs are smaller. Volvo etc in a different class. Why not? Just don't assume it is a cut price X5.

[notorious_benny]

If you are referring to me and Spoolin, 'following' you around, you might need to check your ego bud. You are like the Herpes virus of this forum so it's hard not to follow you or your one eyed, pro Holden diatribe in many of these interesting threads. I can't speak for Spoolin but I know he drives a Ford now and I've owned many Fords as well as my current Holden and I appreciate that they both make great family cars and both have faults.

I try to have intellectual discussions with you - against the advice of other forum members who have known you longer - but it's to no avail. You are so one eyed and border line red neck with your slanted and skewed views that I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to marry your sister.

Every time you put up some rubbish that you've carefully chosen to read about a Ford product that highlights a negative aspect, you can't wait to jump all over it, but when someone counters your often flawed arguments, you resort to name calling or other stupid methods to try and deflect your lack of knowledge on anything non Holden. When a few people slap you down in a particular thread, you take your bat and ball and go home only to pop up again later - like an annoying red itch in some ones underpants - in yet another thread to spout facts about how Commodore's are outselling Falcons.

If you've got no interest (other than spouting negative propaganda) in regards to Territories or any other Ford product for that matter, then go and give input about things that you do know about - like the part number and price of dash trims.

I am - like others, seriously considering a Territory as my next car because my family has grown to 5, and my VE doesn't cut it as an effective method to carry kids plus luggage around in. You on the other hand will never ever get a Territory as long as Lions blood is pumping through your veins, because Grandpa always said Fords were shit. So be careful to read the thread headings and when it relates to a Ford product, you have the option of staying the Fu*k away from it.

Good day to you sir.

Kris out.

Amen Mr Tockley .....

I thought I was the only one who was sick of his one eyed illogical, nonsensical dribble!

[GODSMACK]

Looks like some ppl don't think before they make stupid comments like godsmack...

Like commenting on the older model Terry when the OP is referring to the new 2.7 TD? whos to say that FORD havent addressed the other issues you have refered to, you wouldnt know, you just think you do...

Looks like we are members of the same club... :jerk:

[Spoolin]

Unlike PD, I don't need support in numbers. But I can certainly see his attitude is wearing very thin on many forum members.

[VXSS346]

The only good Territory is one like this..

YouTube - Torched Car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxbNGsWtBXI)

Oh, vecommo is back and is still posting the same shit he always has. :limpy:

[GODSMACK]

Oh, vecommo is back and is still posting the same shit he always has. :limpy:

I hear Hotboz is his GF. :1peek:

[Irish]

I hear Hotboz is his GF. :1peek:

This is a little off topic but I always find your wit amusing GODSMACK. I'm sure there are others who agree as well.

[planetdavo]

I can't be bothered with my fanclub tonight.
If I'm wrong about eligibility I'll say sorry, got it wrong fellas.
If I'm right my fanclub can kiss my @rse.

[SAMCRO]

I hear Hotboz is his GF. :1peek:

Hey Godsmack look here! :flipoff::flipoff::flipoff:

[Road Warrior]

I do not know why Ford just didn't option up the TTDV63.0l, rather than its superseded cousin...:confused:



Ford don't own the intellectual property rights to the 3.0TDCi motor as it was patented after they offloaded Jaguar-Land Rover. They have a stake in the 2.7 still which is why they can use it.

Also, I am led to believe that packaging of the 3.0 in the Territory's engine bay is a huge issue (as it already is with the Discovery). I can't see power upgrades for the 2.7 being an issue however - the intercooler alone is about the size of an A4 piece of paper (and its plastic).

I can understand how people who had been burnt by the ball joint issue would be steering clear though. Once bitten, twice shy. I will consider the vehicle on its merits if/when I am in the market for such a vehicle.

[Swordie]

From my reading 2.7 was chosen over 3.0 due to cost. Fair enough IMO.