Fpv/falcon chassis.

[Pickles]

There has been much discussion about the "pros & cons" of the HSV/FPV current offerings.
If anyone is in any doubt about how far behind the FPV chassis is, then they only need to read page 73 of the August edition of Motor.
Sure, the GS is not a GT, but the SSV is not a HSV either.
Cheers, Pickles.

[GODSMACK]

There has been much discussion about the "pros & cons" of the HSV/FPV current offerings.
If anyone is in any doubt about how far behind the FPV chassis is, then they only need to read page 73 of the August edition of Motor.
Sure, the GS is not a GT, but the SSV is not a HSV either.
Cheers, Pickles.

Do we really need another thread like this comparing HSV/FPV? we all know how it ends...

[73.RSR]

Yeah it was a surprising read, Golf GTI set quicker times around Wakefield than FPV GS and WRX...........
I'm definitely taking mine out there for a belt, haven't driven there since it was resurfaced.
That GS must have big handling and grip issues because it was way out in front for terminal speed on all of the tests (ignoring the GT3 RS).

[steve_t]

I'm keen to hear the low down if any of you have a few minutes to summarise :goodjob:

[Evman]

I don't buy those mags so would also like tt know what's on page 73.

Having said that, I take any journo's talk of "chassis" with a pinch of salt. When the Monaro went to the UK it was about the time that Australian journos had been saying that the Commodore and Monaro chassis was "feeling tired" and "old", "outdated", etc. As soon as the Monaro went to the UK the reviews started coming back with the Monaro having a "fantastic chassis" and all sorts of compliments. So which was it? I hardly think the Aussies delivered a truly fantastic chassis to the land of BMW's, Mercedes, etc.

Maybe they just don't know what the hell they're talking about.

[73.RSR]

The magazine just pointed out what a stonking good engine the GS has and what a shame it is that the rest of the car lets it down.

[Evman]

Fair call thanks mate. I would love for Holden/HSV to put the extra effort in to do something similar but I can't see it happening. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't introduce anything until the GenV which is still a good year or two away anyway.

[6_litre_man]

Havnt journos pretty much been saying the falcon chassis has been bad or worse than holden since before the BA?

Cheers
Matt

[mickeyVX350]

Isn't the chassis essentially the AU chassis? The BA was a bum and face lift (and a nice one) the BF, uglier, but the same, and the FG pretty much a rework too (with uglier tail lights)

[6_litre_man]

Good to hear someone else say that the fg is just a rework of the ba/bf, mate at work bought a 50th anniversary 6 turbo and i told him it reminds me so much of the ba/bf but he cant see it, says it looks nothing like it lol

Cheers
Matt

[Spoolin]

Anyone got a link or scan of the story? Wouldn't mind the read but CBF buying it...might flick through it at Coles :)

The FG front end is completely different to previous generations iirc, this doesn't make it eny better but I can assure you a spring change makes a massive difference.

What cars did they test?

[RED R8]

Please don't say any bad things about the new Ford range its like poking a hornets nest around here at the moment...:jester:

I do notice a big difference going from My old VY to the VE in terms of chassis dynamics Its not perfect and could always do with improvements but its not too bad..

[73.RSR]

I've owned 3 turbo fords and thought two of them were great (BA Ute was terrible).
BF Typhoon was great on the road and around Oran Park - No chassis problems despite over 300rwkw.
FG XR6 Turbo was great road car but in standard trim suspension would have let it down on a track and so would brakes - one of the best cars I've owned though.

I think it may be that not only the power but how and where it is making that power is causing the blown coyote to show up the weakness' in the other areas.
Nothing a few aftermarket products couldn't improve.

[RED R8]

I've owned 3 turbo fords and thought two of them were great (BA Ute was terrible).
BF Typhoon was great on the road and around Oran Park - No chassis problems despite over 300rwkw.
FG XR6 Turbo was great road car but in standard trim suspension would have let it down on a track and so would brakes - one of the best cars I've owned though.

I think it may be that not only the power but how and where it is making that power is causing the blown coyote to show up the weakness' in the other areas.
Nothing a few aftermarket products couldn't improve.
Well they have the motor sorted so hopefully will do any required chassis mods to suit the new powerplant..

[Evman]

Please don't say any bad things about the new Ford range its like poking a hornets nest around here at the moment...:jester:

I do notice a big difference going from My old VY to the VE in terms of chassis dynamics Its not perfect and could always do with improvements but its not too bad..

:lol:

I drove VE Omega hire car through some mountainous road in the east travelling from Eden to Canberra and was absolutely blown away. Even the base model didn't have to be worked through the corners like my VY, it just goes where you ask it.

All of this was at tame speeds mind you because I had a passenger, it was night and I'd never driven those roads before.

[GODSMACK]

:lol:

I drove VE Omega hire car through some mountainous road in the east travelling from Eden to Canberra and was absolutely blown away. Even the base model didn't have to be worked through the corners like my VY, it just goes where you ask it.

All of this was at tame speeds mind you because I had a passenger, it was night and I'd never driven those roads before.

Prob has better performance than your Vy too... :stick:

[6_litre_man]

Please don't say any bad things about the new Ford range its like poking a hornets nest around here at the moment...:jester:

too true, maybe the blue screen attracts all the ford people here.
its pretty bad though when you cant say bad things about a ford on a holden forum without starting a huge argument that turns into personal attacks at each other lol

Cheers
Matt

[RED R8]

too true, maybe the blue screen attracts all the ford people here.
its pretty bad though when you cant say bad things about a ford on a holden forum without starting a huge argument that turns into personal attacks at each other lol

Cheers
Matt

I guess it shows there is a level of passion attached to our Ford/Holdens...:)

[185iboy]

GS was 0.3 slower around the track than the SSV, 2nd highest top speed to the 911 and has the worst brakes out of every car tested. The GS + RE050a tyres like the SSV comes factory with would have made up the 0.3 secs. I'm not bagging Holden I'm just saying before people start talking about 'superior chassis' and 'it's an AU' like all the other threads.

[Spoolin]

Ouch, second worse brakes...I must admit the Dunlops Ford use on the GS are disgusting, hardly any grip and crap wear.

[Evman]

...without starting a huge argument that turns into personal attacks at each other lol

Yeah I wonder how all that starts...


Prob has better performance than your Vy too...

:goodjob:

[RED R8]

GS was 0.3 slower around the track than the SSV, 2nd highest top speed to the 911 and has the worst brakes out of every car tested. The GS + RE050a tyres like the SSV comes factory with would have made up the 0.3 secs. I'm not bagging Holden I'm just saying before people start talking about 'superior chassis' and 'it's an AU' like all the other threads.

Shitty tyres and brakes would certainly destroy quick times around a track...I can't believe how many manufactures still use crap tyres a decent set on the new Ford surely wouldn't cost stuff all more but would improve its overall performance greatly.

[mrtockley]

I don't think there's any argument about the FG chassis. The VE platform is VASTLY superior. FPV have a long way to go to get the rest of the package up to the standards of the Miami - especially the brakes of the GS.

[Evman]

Fulcrum said it 3 years ago


Even out of the box the VE is much more dynamic, better lap times, more driver's car than this car is [XR6]. This has a long way to go to be a real driver's car

‪Fulcrum Suspensions FG Falcon Vehicle Testing‬‏ - YouTube

[Ghia351]

There has been much discussion about the "pros & cons" of the HSV/FPV current offerings.
If anyone is in any doubt about how far behind the FPV chassis is, then they only need to read page 73 of the August edition of Motor.
Sure, the GS is not a GT, but the SSV is not a HSV either.
Cheers, Pickles.Was it a Redline SSV? Don't they come with Brembo's and FE3?

[bouka]

FPV chassis not as good as VE HSV in my experience. It is definitely not bad but not as good.

FPV will/has said as much. HSV get a better mother car to work with and FPV can only do so much (within the realm of a manufacturer and cost etc).

The factory Dunlops on the FPV are not very good either and from all accounts better rubber makes a big difference.

The FPV is a great grand tourer but there was a difference between my HSV's and the FPV GT.

As far as he mags go, well I don't pay too much attention to what they say.

[planetdavo]

In many ways the AU IRS suspension was considered to be superior to the Control Blade concept from BA onward. The AU rear IRS was heavy and expensive (made by Hitachi if my memory is correct) but superior in it's abilities, whereas Control Blade was a front wheel drive rear suspension design adapted to suit a rear wheel drive car. It is vastly cheaper for Ford to produce, but appears a bit pushed to the limit handling the high outputs of Falcon, hence VE's dynamic advantage.

[mrtockley]

In many ways the AU IRS suspension was considered to be superior to the Control Blade concept from BA onward. The AU rear IRS was heavy and expensive (made by Hitachi if my memory is correct) but superior in it's abilities, whereas Control Blade was a front wheel drive rear suspension design adapted to suit a rear wheel drive car. It is vastly cheaper for Ford to produce, but appears a bit pushed to the limit handling the high outputs of Falcon, hence VE's dynamic advantage.

I agree. Ford desperately NEED a brand new platform like the VE was. It depends on how badly Ford US decides to cripple the Falcon if it decides to make it FWD. Then we're all fu*ked.

[mjrandom]

Before I bought the E2 I was vacillating between it and a new F6. The power transfer to the ground is what let the F6 down. Felt like the rear bushes were way too soft and the tyres not up to the job at all but I have no idea what pressures it was running. The brakes (premium) had less feel and performance than my E1 too. The salesman wasn't convinced so we did a back to back in both cars and he was amazed at the difference. One of the mechanics came out and we talked for a while. He had a GT-P with P zeroes (from memory) better, lower springs, better shocks (Bilsteins???) and stiffer bushes. He reckoned it fixed the problems but it was also another $5k on top of the price of the car. I remembered my earlier first edition F6 and when the D word wore out (<<20k) I put P zeroes on it and that helped but didn't fix it completely but then the early F6's TC was crap and interfered in the dynamics. Still keen to give a GT a run though, especially with staggered rear and some of the enhancements available through a tuner or two. Oh and the F6 was significantly cheaper than the same spec in the E2.

[steve_t]

Are FPVs able to run a wider rear tyre or is body work required?

[KuRT12]

This has to be some kind of record? :confused:

Two pages in and there not a knife fight yet! :jester:

Holden definitely have a much superior chassis, but i think better tyres on the FPV would see a massive improvement. From what i have read about those dunlops, they are woeful.

[mattnsw]

Does everyone on the LS1 Forum own these new FPV cars? If not where are you driving them to the limits of their chassis?

When I test drive a car from a dealership it’s around suburban streets not a race track.

Is it just an opinion formed from a magazine article or hearsay from a mate’s mate’s mate?

Hell I’d own a new supercharged FPV if I could afford it, sure as sh#t I’m not likely to ever find its limits on the street.

[white lie]

Are FPVs able to run a wider rear tyre or is body work required?

You can get 10" wide rears on the FG's. Loads of room back there!

[KuRT12]

You can get 10" wide rears on the FG's. Loads of room back there!

Yeah KPM have that on their streetfighter package don't they?

And they dont have any rolled guards or anything (AFAIK)

[Pickles]

Was it a Redline SSV? Don't they come with Brembo's and FE3?

Correct....Good to hear from a man that is concerned with....FACTS.
Cheers, Pickles.

[mrtockley]

Yeah KPM have that on their streetfighter package don't they?

And they dont have any rolled guards or anything (AFAIK)

Just need spacers (from memory).

[Spoolin]

Just read (at Coles) the SSV review and GS review, looks like some comments have been extracted and taken slightly out of context, no biggie though.

Yes, they in fact said the GS does not suit track racing with it's soft suspension and poor grip, they did say it makes for an awesome drift machine, with the ability to hold a drift and perform a smoke show with little effort. They did say they torched a set of tyres just in the photo shoot, so it couldn't be all bad.

IIRC, the story on SSV was that they found the new FE3 suspension very good, but the brakes also faded too quickly, remebering these are the Brembo's. It also continued to say that the package is not that good bang for buck as it once was but was still good.

Would be great if someone with a copy could scan and post up.

[white lie]

Just need spacers (from memory).

Surely wheels with the correct offset would negate the need for spacers?

[Evman]

Surely wheels with the correct offset would negate the need for spacers?

Certainly would. A mate runs 9.5" wide rims on the back of his BA without issues, or spacers.

[mrtockley]

Surely wheels with the correct offset would negate the need for spacers?

Yeah as Evman said below. I was talking about the KPM wheels. I believe they run spacers - correct me if I'm wrong though anyone?

[FOON]

Yeah as Evman said below. I was talking about the KPM wheels. I believe they run spacers - correct me if I'm wrong though anyone?

Can't see them doing that considering spacers are illegal here in SA and the KPM Streetfighter is exactly how they are selling them in the dealers.

[Skedy]

It all has to be taken in context though my Mazda rx7 chassis that was designed in the late 80's early 90's shits all over what both ford and Holden offer... Simple fact is ford didnt and still doesn't have the money Holden spent on ve it was the billion dollar baby or something wasn't it?

[Spoolin]

It all has to be taken in context though my Mazda rx7 chassis that was designed in the late 80's early 90's shits all over what both ford and Holden offer... Simple fact is ford didnt and still doesn't have the money Holden spent on ve it was the billion dollar baby or something wasn't it?

I get your point, but the FD has and amazing chassis... for a pure sports car, as a matter of fact my FC also had a far superior handling chassis than either of my VE's or FG's I've owned, but they are both pure sports cars not family saloons.

Bugger, might have to go buy it just for a few pages...

[Skedy]

Everyone's talking about how good there cars are on the track though not how comfortable there family is on long trips. Fact of the matter is commodores and falcons fail when it comes to track handling compared to more dedicated chassis'

[aussiemuscle308]

Well they have the motor sorted so hopefully will do any required chassis mods to suit the new powerplant..
it's been said a few places that they spent all the money on the engine and forgot about the rest. FPV aren't concerned enough about differentiate falcon from fpv. The interior should at least be as good as Mondeo (which is a LOT nicer).


I guess it shows there is a level of passion attached to our Ford/Holdens...:)
stilll????


I agree. Ford desperately NEED a brand new platform like the VE was. It depends on how badly Ford US decides to cripple the Falcon if it decides to make it FWD. Then we're all fu*ked.
true, if you think gm doesn't put much effort in now, what would it be like if the only real competitor is a 'sport' toyota?


Simple fact is ford didnt and still doesn't have the money Holden spent on ve it was the billion dollar baby or something wasn't it?
i don't think either of them can justify a big spend at this point in time. FG2 is wwaaaayyyy over due from a sales POV.

[RED R8]

I guess both ford and Holden really don't need to make too many changes to chassis as there shortcomings are mostly only found when on a track pushed to 10/10ths...what number of fords/Holdens would be getting sold and owners complaining the chassis dynamics aren't up to scratch or aren't perfect ? On road their comfy enough and driven on the street as hard as you can actually drive on the road they are fine. I have probably pushed my R8 to 5/10ths of what it can safely handle and if 98% of owners never push it to the limit why invest anymore money on it. Peak power can be put in the sales brochure to make the car appear superior and sell cars but chassis dynamics, braking, handling don't come in set numbers or figures so aren't easily marketable.

[Phizzle]

It all has to be taken in context though my Mazda rx7 chassis that was designed in the late 80's early 90's shits all over what both ford and Holden offer... Simple fact is ford didnt and still doesn't have the money Holden spent on ve it was the billion dollar baby or something wasn't it?

Yea and a FC doesn't weigh anything like a Falcon or Commodore. Very easy to have a great handling car if you strip all the weight out of one.