Cam and stall install not sure what size

[v8commodore]

Hi guys I have a vx ss ls1 commodore 99000km just did the full exhaust otr etc now Im going to fit a cam and stallie. My local tuner recommened to me a 232/234 cam and a 3000rpm stall and he was going to tune it to 7200rpm. My question are I thought 7200rpm was a tad high for a standard bottom end more towards 6800 I was thinking And stall lot of guys telling me 3000 rpm others telling me 2800rpm I have to keep car as a daily driver and my wife may drive it now and then so have to keep it fairly street friendly. The tuner told me with cam he could tune idle down so it wasnt as lumpy and just have a slight lope at idle. And one last thing when installing cam I was gonna just do the cam,springs,pushrods and a tranny cooler does this sound right I dont rev it all time just the now and then. Any advice would be good from people who have done this before I dont want to really spend the $$$ if it blows something or I have made wrong choice of stallie And im aiming for around 260kw back wheels plus thanks

[boggers007]

There are plenty of people on here with bigger stallies on a daily driver. Best bet is to drive in a few cars with different stalls and work out what you like.

[white lie]

You won't notice the difference in drivability between a 2800 and 3000 stall. Go with 3000RPM minimum. I've got a 4500 in mine and love it. Doesn't flare unnecessarily and is fine to putt around town. My missus can drive the car no problem and she doesn't know what a high stall is or does, just thinks its strange the car is so 'shaky' at idle.

You will make the power you're after with that cam, probably a bit more, depending on the dyno. A friend just put one in recently with a 3500 converter and makes 275.

I also agree with you that the cam won't be making anything up around 7200 so keep a lower/safer rev limit.

[briancb1]

Hi guys I have a vx ss ls1 commodore 99000km just did the full exhaust otr etc now Im going to fit a cam and stallie. My local tuner recommened to me a 232/234 cam and a 3000rpm stall and he was going to tune it to 7200rpm. My question are I thought 7200rpm was a tad high for a standard bottom end more towards 6800 I was thinking And stall lot of guys telling me 3000 rpm others telling me 2800rpm I have to keep car as a daily driver and my wife may drive it now and then so have to keep it fairly street friendly. The tuner told me with cam he could tune idle down so it wasnt as lumpy and just have a slight lope at idle. And one last thing when installing cam I was gonna just do the cam,springs,pushrods and a tranny cooler does this sound right I dont rev it all time just the now and then. Any advice would be good from people who have done this before I dont want to really spend the $$$ if it blows something or I have made wrong choice of stallie And im aiming for around 260kw back wheels plus thanks

What cam company are you going with? Then what types of lobes are you using? Next what LSA and ICL? The measured duration @.050" as the only spec is very vague to tell what you're really going to get.

Word of the wise, replace your lifters when you change the cam. LS7 lifters are okay and so are comp cams 850-16 lifters.

[v8commodore]

Not to sure on spec of cam lsa etc till tommorrow when shop opens back up but its a comp cam and as for lifters efi performance in brisbane said to replace them but the guy installing cam said i didnt have to hes done heaps hi torque performance,gmmotorsports,chevs performance and my local dyno said it would be fine without changing lifters but if I did pushrods it will be fine. I thought coming from some high reputation shops that do it all time that would be right?

[briancb1]

I've read the story to many times where a lifter fails just thousands of miles after a cam swap when they are high milage lifters like older LS1 camaro's etc. I'm not sure who your shop guy is, but if it were me I would swap them out for LS7's or comp 850-16 lifters. When I did my cam (227/235 on a 113+4 on LSL lobes), I changed to 850-16 lifters for about $160 US and never looked back.

[jws]

Hi v8commodore, You will love the power a camshaft will give. By the sounds of the camshaft it is a Comp cams XER281. I personally wouldn't use such a large camshaft for a car thats going to be a daily driver that the missus is going to drive. I would use the Comp cam XER273, the next size camshaft down in size in the comp xer range. I have seen the XER273 go 300+rwkw in a manual LS1 and use the same amount of fuel as stock factory car. In an auto you should net about 285rwkw. As for stall converter I would go bigger than 3000, 4500 is what I would use. I would get a 9.25 inch converter. Reason for this is the lockup function of the converter is totally programble meaning you can make it lock up when every you want making it very streetable but when you put your foot down it flares to 4500 right in the thick of your power. 9.25 inch will also have a fair bit of resistance so It wont instantly flare to 4500 unless you get under it, so for driving around with light throttle it will be more like stock.

[briancb1]

Hi v8commodore, You will love the power a camshaft will give. By the sounds of the camshaft it is a Comp cams XER281. I personally wouldn't use such a large camshaft for a car thats going to be a daily driver that the missus is going to drive. I would use the Comp cam XER273, the next size camshaft down in size in the comp xer range. I have seen the XER273 go 300+rwkw in a manual LS1 and use the same amount of fuel as stock factory car. In an auto you should net about 285rwkw. As for stall converter I would go bigger than 3000, 4500 is what I would use. I would get a 9.25 inch converter. Reason for this is the lockup function of the converter is totally programble meaning you can make it lock up when every you want making it very streetable but when you put your foot down it flares to 4500 right in the thick of your power. 9.25 inch will also have a fair bit of resistance so It wont instantly flare to 4500 unless you get under it, so for driving around with light throttle it will be more like stock.

I wouldn't even go with an XER lobe at all sir. The short lift aggressive profile makes for poor valve control when compared to XFI or LSL lobes which supports the lifter much better when rolling over the nose. But dont take my word for it, Advanced Inductions from the states did a dynamic lobe comparison of the XER, LSL and LSK lobes. The XER lobes were more prone to cause valve float/valvetrain instability from the graphs you can see.

[jws]

I do agree with briancb1 that XER lobes are more prone to valvetrain instability but if controlled by using good valve springs, pushrods and lifters they do make good power in the small bore LS1 motors. If it was a 4" or bigger bore LS motor I would suggest the LSL or XFI lobes.

[macca33]

I'm with Brian with the lobes - XFI, or better still, LSL lobes, are the go.

BTW - Brian, nice cam selection in your rig mate! :goodjob:

cheers

[h41ry]

i would strongly recomend a comp cam 231/239 @ .50 .617/.624 lift springs and pushrods to suit and a 3500 - 4000 stall 4 into 1s

i used this combo in my vt ss with 3500 stall 3.9 diff gears never had a good run but cause of gbox issues best i did but was 2.06 @ 115 mph 1.7 60ft driving off the line and hitting rev limiter in 2nd
i have used both the 232/234 and the 231/239 shits all over it especially mid range

[peter b]

For the power you are looking for I will be different than the rest and say look at something smaller 224/230 with a bit over 0.600 lift on a 112 lobe sep and look at a set of ported heads. Keeping stock convertor.
You are only looking for 260rwkw no need to go a big camshaft and convertor if not needed

[Wonky]

Not to sure on spec of cam lsa etc till tommorrow when shop opens back up but its a comp cam and as for lifters efi performance in brisbane said to replace them but the guy installing cam said i didnt have to hes done heaps hi torque performance,gmmotorsports,chevs performance and my local dyno said it would be fine without changing lifters but if I did pushrods it will be fine. I thought coming from some high reputation shops that do it all time that would be right?

Not quite sure how to interpret the above in reference to Chev's Performance in particular because I don't know of any outside person who would "do" (whatever that means :confused:) stuff for all those places. I do however know that for bigger cams Chev strongly advises going for Morel tie-bar lifters.

[ebbett21]

What bout a 249/259 710. 780. @ 103 lsa comp cam, smooth idle, superior bottom end, valvetrain friendly, everyday driver cam:) Just kidding.

[macca33]

:jester: :lmao:

[boggers007]

Not quite sure how to interpret the above in reference to Chev's Performance in particular because I don't know of any outside person who would "do" (whatever that means :confused:) stuff for all those places. I do however know that for bigger cams Chev strongly advises going for Morel tie-bar lifters.

Wonky i read it as he has rang all those places backing up that he didnt have to replace the lifters if he didnt want to.

[Wonky]

OK, I possibly misread due to lack of punctuation.

[stealth vn]

my old vx r8 ran a 232/234 @112 cam 4000rpm converter with standard lifters however we used slightly longer rods then most people use so it didn't sound like a sewing machine had has a hard time with over 10.000km no dramas and has over 200.000km on it

with my ute im thinking either 232/234 again or 231/239

[h41ry]

my old vx r8 ran a 232/234 @112 cam 4000rpm converter with standard lifters however we used slightly longer rods then most people use so it didn't sound like a sewing machine had has a hard time with over 10.000km no dramas and has over 200.000km on it

with my ute im thinking either 232/234 again or 231/239

231/239 over 232/234 any day man u will be more than happy

[stealth vn]

231/239 over 232/234 any day man u will be more than happy

yea im thinking thats will be the way something different just trying to find some more info on it

[v8commodore]

I decided to stay with 232/234 cam and 3000 converter was made for my standard diff gears 3.07 Got car back after few days ago drives real good around town no drams at all wife can drive it and its actually really good down low. Had the cam fitted but had to take it back as I had the annoying lifter tick so lifters had to be done. All up I got Cam, comp springs, chromemoly pushrods, Comp Pro Magnum Lifters, Timing Chain, Mellings High volume Oil Pump, Tranny Cooler/Converter, Heads where cleaned up a bit with a little bit of porting around value area and compression is at 11.1, Cometic Head Gaskets and Castrol Edge 10-60. Value train noise is pretty quite.
Didnt really have the $$$$ to get better heads atm so that can be done later on down track as Im moving house next few weeks. Running short genie 4 into 1 extractors high flow cats and twin 2.5 so yeh extractors restricting it to a bit. I had 306rwhp with exhaust mafless tune and vcm otr before all work was done. 340rwhp after cam and 371rwhp after lifters and heads where cleaned up with compression increased. Not really sure how much u lose on dyno with converter and if someone could tell me roughly how much this is as rwkw and fwkw would be great. Overall Im happy with the results car drives really good/smooth a nice shake at lights not to loud and at 60km you wouldnt know it was even cammed really smooth to drive So friendly for kids and wife which I had to keep happy as wife payed for most of it lol. Future mods Fuel system Better heads, Extractors not sure on diff gears as its mainly a daily driver seems really good atm and whatever else comes along which there always is. I want to say a really big thanks to Richard and the crew at Stitts Motor Repairs And Wilkinshaw Performance in Gladstone in Queensland for all work they did

[dogsballs]

my old vx r8 ran a 232/234 @112 cam 4000rpm converter with standard lifters however we used slightly longer rods then most people use so it didn't sound like a sewing machine had has a hard time with over 10.000km no dramas and has over 200.000km on it

with my ute im thinking either 232/234 again or 231/239
i heard a VE with morel tie bar lifters sound like sewing machine recently ;)

LS7 lifters for me.

[stealth vn]

annoys the crap out of me hearing all these cammed ls motors from some good shops but all have common tick tick tick tick grrrrrrr drives me nuts

[macca_779]

annoys the crap out of me hearing all these cammed ls motors from some good shops but all have common tick tick tick tick grrrrrrr drives me nuts

Clearly they aren't that knowledgable. There is a bit to setting up valve train geometry properly. Seat pressure, lifter preload, etc all come in to it. Some shops just don't put the same amount of time in as others.


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[DCV1NU]

I have the 231/239 comp cam in my ssv L98 with a 2800stall, whilst i agree it has excellent mid range torque but a daily its completly useless(well in my case anyway) as most of the driving is done in the lower rpm especially around town. So its something you'd have to consider when choosing a cam as to what you intend on using the car for, something like a 224/228 or that 232/234 maybe better suited.

[macca_779]

I have the 231/239 comp cam in my ssv L98 with a 2800stall, whilst i agree it has excellent mid range torque but a daily its completly useless(well in my case anyway) as most of the driving is done in the lower rpm especially around town. So its something you'd have to consider when choosing a cam as to what you intend on using the car for, something like a 224/228 or that 232/234 maybe better suited.

A cam that size in a stalled auto will have pretty good road manners "IF" the tune is set up correctly. It's really not that big for an L98.


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[stealth vn]

personally with a 231/239 i would use a bigger converter then a 2800, i had a 2800 converter once was useless compared to the 4000 converter (prob tad over kill for a daily)

[v8commodore]

Picked car up today went with 232/234 and 3000rpm converter which was setup for my standard gears 3.07. Car drives really good down low smooth but had to take it back to get lifters done. Was at 306rwhp with tune exhaust and otr before work was done. After cam went in went to 340rwhp then After lifters and head was cleaned up a bit mild porting near value area shaved etc went to 371rwhp. Can anyone give me a rough idea of what this is as fwhp and fwkw. How much on dyno do I lose with converter. All up I got done Comp cam, Comp pro magnum lifters, Timing chain, Comp springs, Chromemoly pushrods, Mellings High volume oil pump, 11.1 Comp, Cometic head gasket, Castrol Edge 10-60. Value train is very quite. My extractors hold it back a bit genie short 4 into 1 high flow cats and twin 2.5 exhaust. Car has a nice shake at light not loud and at 60km you wouldnt even know the car is cammed. Wife and kid friendly well had to be since she paid for most of it lol. And its actually real good done low to drives just like a standard car.

[Wonky]

Can anyone give me a rough idea of what this is as fwhp and fwkw. How much on dyno do I lose with converter.

A4 with stock auto most people say driveline loss is around 25% or so. Working on that loss being from fwhp to rwhp and not the other way around (it makes a difference!) your 371rwhp (just under 280rwkw) would be around 495fwhp (371fwkw). Converters I've heard typically suck around 25 rwkw (30+ rwhp or around 40fwhp).

[stealth vn]

Picked car up today went with 232/234 and 3000rpm converter which was setup for my standard gears 3.07. Car drives really good down low smooth but had to take it back to get lifters done. Was at 306rwhp with tune exhaust and otr before work was done. After cam went in went to 340rwhp then After lifters and head was cleaned up a bit mild porting near value area shaved etc went to 371rwhp. Can anyone give me a rough idea of what this is as fwhp and fwkw. How much on dyno do I lose with converter. All up I got done Comp cam, Comp pro magnum lifters, Timing chain, Comp springs, Chromemoly pushrods, Mellings High volume oil pump, 11.1 Comp, Cometic head gasket, Castrol Edge 10-60. Value train is very quite. My extractors hold it back a bit genie short 4 into 1 high flow cats and twin 2.5 exhaust. Car has a nice shake at light not loud and at 60km you wouldnt even know the car is cammed. Wife and kid friendly well had to be since she paid for most of it lol. And its actually real good done low to drives just like a standard car.

i wouldnt worry what the dyno says take it to the track :woot:

[white lie]

Power seems about right, a mate had a very similar combo done recently.
232/234, 3500 stall, 4.11's etc. Also made 370rwhp.

I generally work on rwhp = rwkW, so 370kW. But like said, take it to the strip!