I am looking at VE Calais V 6.0 and WM statesman 6.0 hard choice

[muso]

I am looking at getting a used VE Calais V 6.0 or a WM Statesman 6.0 next year probably 2007 models.

My current car is Ba xr6 turbo 270 rwkw's goes like hell (nearly lose my lunch when it hits boost :) but it lacks the V8 charisma (V8's are sexy even when idling...mines not :bawl: ) I don't really do the Ford vs Holden thing, I love both sides of the fence V8 or F6 and am proud of both our local manufacturers (Ford should export the FG F6)

I have generally always owned commodores (VN, VT, VX etc) except for a 1990 R31 Skyline (damn good car it was) and a 2001 Magna (good car but I would have enjoyed it more if I was over 70 :)) .......only kidding! And of course the BA xr6t.

Anyway I absolutely love the VE calais v 6.0 but having looked at the WM Statesman I fell for that to, what a great job our local manufacturers have done creating a world class car, with the sunken guages and dash/interior design you'd think it is a $150,000 car :goodjob: And considering the actual price they (both Calais V and WM stato) appear to be outstanding value in the bang for buck segment! The luxo pimping barge statesman/Caprice thing exudes class making the WM very hard to resist.

I am not really interested in whether it is faster or slower than my XR6T (they are both similar with mods) rather it's the driving experience that I'm interested in.

Any tips from people with personal experience with either VE V or WM would be greatly appreciated :)

[calais190]

As far as i'm concerned, you'd only buy a WM statesman over a VE Calais if you drove other people around quite frequently. The back seats and leg room in the calais is more than enough for most people. I was actually surprised at how much leg room you have in a VE. It's more than the VT-VZ had. The WM on the other hand is HUGE in the back. It also has a huge boot, and my be somewhat inconvenient to park at tight shopping centres.

Tell us more about:
a) your driving style;
b) the % on freeway and % local you drive;
c) will it be used for shopping;
d) do you plan on doing a big sound system with subs;
e) How many people do you normally drive around; and
f) What performance mods would you like to do.

Then you should be able to answer your own question quite easily.

[muso]

Driving style average family commuter 50/50 city/highway somewhat enthusiastic hence xr6t.

No subs but my son would love them!

calais190 all you have said points to the Calais and I think you are right, I drive my kids and wife around but as you pointed out there is ample rear leg room in the Calais and it would be easier to park, I'm just taken by the WM prestige but the Calais isn't too bad either, feels almost BMWish to sit in :)

Cheers for the reply calais190 :)

[calais190]

No worries mate :) sometimes it helps to have a discussion about your ideas to really help concrete what you probably thought was the better idea in the first place. I think you'd probably be happier with the calais too, its a luxurious car that you can still through around the bends on the odd ocassion. Kids would probably get lost in the back of a wm statesman anyway haha.

[muso]

I believe that the Calais V comes with FE2 suspension, one would hope that someone optioning the 6.0 V8 would also option the LSD it would be rather silly not to but I guess it depends on their needs.

I know FE2 and LSD is an option but I think that was for the VE Calais (not the V model)

[sjhugh]

I am looking at getting a used VE Calais V 6.0 or a WM Statesman 6.0 next year probably 2007 models.

Anyway I absolutely love the VE calais v 6.0 but having looked at the WM Statesman I fell for that to, what a great job our local manufacturers have done creating a world class car, with the sunken guages and dash/interior design you'd think it is a $150,000 car :goodjob: And considering the actual price they (both Calais V and WM stato) appear to be outstanding value in the bang for buck segment! The luxo pimping barge statesman/Caprice thing exudes class making the WM very hard to resist.

I am not really interested in whether it is faster or slower than my XR6T (they are both similar with mods) rather it's the driving experience that I'm interested in.

Any tips from people with personal experience with either VE V or WM would be greatly appreciated :)


The LSD was an option in the older Calais V’s and you won’t find many second hand models with it as most of the original owners weren’t orientated that way.

I’d go the Calais over the WM only because it’s easier to manoeuvre in tight spots and is also lighter but that’s just my personal preference.

If you are referring to it as a world car in the luxury sense then I would say that is not the case.

It will offer good performance and fuel economy especially if tuned and if it’s an older model the transmission should be tuned to improve the shift points and speed of changes as that is one of the older models biggest failings.

I’m not rubbishing the Calais just being honest when I say I’ve owned both and the Calais doesn’t compare to the current model BMW’s in the luxury stakes, not even close. The driving feel is chalk and cheese not to mention fit, finish, luxury items, technology and materials used.

What the Calais does offer over the BMW is cheap low end luxury with a V8 option, you won’t find a similar age V8 powered BMW that would compare on price.

Don’t be fooled by the advertising spin, no Holden compares to a $150,000 car and I do mean none, not even close.

[muso]

The LSD was an option in the older Calais V’s and you won’t find many second hand models with it as most of the original owners weren’t orientated that way.

I’d go the Calais over the WM only because it’s easier to manoeuvre in tight spots and is also lighter but that’s just my personal preference.

If you are referring to it as a world car in the luxury sense then I would say that is not the case.

It will offer good performance and fuel economy especially if tuned and if it’s an older model the transmission should be tuned to improve the shift points and speed of changes as that is one of the older models biggest failings.

I’m not rubbishing the Calais just being honest when I say I’ve owned both and the Calais doesn’t compare to the current model BMW’s in the luxury stakes, not even close. The driving feel is chalk and cheese not to mention fit, finish, luxury items, technology and materials used.

What the Calais does offer over the BMW is cheap low end luxury with a V8 option, you won’t find a similar age V8 powered BMW that would compare on price.

Don’t be fooled by the advertising spin, no Holden compares to a $150,000 car and I do mean none, not even close.

Cheers SJ, what I should have said was for the price approx $60,000 (30,000 pounds to use top gear currency) Holden make a good luxury car in the WM statesman and they have created the illusion of world class expense/luxury at an affordable price for "Fred average". Of course the Calais would not compare with a BMW (Germans are probably the finest engineers in the world) but this also shows in the price one would pay for a current M5 BMW (V10 :vpo: I want one) but as you said you won't find a similar aged V8 BMW that would compare on price, but perhaps a 1999 E39 M5 (although still costing a bit more) would compare in performance but even those BMW's are quick.

What I do like about our local holden and ford cars is that you can work on them yourself, my XR6 Turbo is a breeze to work on and parts are cheap and makes 330 flywheel killerwasps. I am biased towards our local cars because for a country with a population of only 23 million we are making some great cars, I love it when I see youtube clips of SS,HSV, FPV F6, XR6T and someone says "why can't we get these cars over here?"

sjhugh, when you refer to older Calais V's do you mean the pre AFM models?

[muso]

Do all VE Calais V models come with sat nav and park assist (with the car diagram in the centre screen) ?

If so they are well appointed.

Is there any other differences between the Calais V and the Calais other than the leather and DVD and Fe2?

[sjhugh]

The Calais is good for its price and you’ll get great value from a second hand one.

My reference to the older models was based on you saying you were interested in a 2007 which is pre AFM.

I had a 2007 and the main fault I found was with the Auto transmission. It was very indecisive, always scavenging for a gear and then often getting it wrong. I will add it was also one of the slowest changing autos I’d ever driven. Still a good tuner will fix that without any problem and you will be amazed by the transformation.

Just for the exercise and for the sheer hell of it, walk into a BMW dealer and check out their cars and take a couple for a drive. Apart from giving you a good bench mark it’ll be a fun experience.

Park assist is standard on the V with a screen diagram for both front and rear, Nav was optional on the older models. The older models also had better finish around door trims and a few other items that were later deleted by Holden to save costs. Check out and compared a 2007 with say a 2009 and you may notice some little differences.

.

[muso]

Thanks heaps SJ, you have been a great help :)

[csv rulz]

I believe the Calais v initially had FE2 but then they went to FE1.5 as there were complaints FE2 was to stiff for a luxury orientated car. Unfortunately I'm not sure what year they did that??

[spudmo]

my calais v has fe2 it's an 07. previous owner didnt tick sat nav. but got everthing else sunroof front and rear park assist which is handy cause my wife cant drive for crap. very nice ride slighly firm but 200% better than the previous vz ute as a family car/ daily hack its abosolutly suited love it

[muso]

my calais v has fe2 it's an 07. previous owner didnt tick sat nav. but got everthing else sunroof front and rear park assist which is handy cause my wife cant drive for crap. very nice ride slighly firm but 200% better than the previous vz ute as a family car/ daily hack its abosolutly suited love it

Sunroof is optional though but a nice option, I was looking at G6E's their power and refinement is unbelievable but one problem, I don't like the look of them inside or out. I sat in a VE v calais and it was very nice, but I find leather seats to be cold, slippery and uncomfortable, I would maybe get seat covers.

I would also make sure it has LSD with the V8, i've heard that not many VE Calais's have the LSD :(

[spudmo]

even if it doesn't have an lsd a 3.45 out of an ss is only about $500
youll get use to leather my last 2 cars have had it and i much prefer it

[muso]

even if it doesn't have an lsd a 3.45 out of an ss is only about $500
youll get use to leather my last 2 cars have had it and i much prefer it

What diff ratio is the stock VE Calais V V8?

With the leather what about in summer when it is too hot to sit on? It is easier to clean and wears better though :)

[Micks]

What diff ratio is the stock VE Calais V V8?

With the leather what about in summer when it is too hot to sit on? It is easier to clean and wears better though :)

Stock diff in the Calais & V 6.0 are 2.92 single spinners!

Cheers
VYT

[spudmo]

leather is dam hot in summer without a sun shade up, but cools quickly, wont really bother you unless you drive around with no shirt on can't even tell its hot with a shirt on

[muso]

Stock diff in the Calais & V 6.0 are 2.92 single spinners!

Cheers
VYT

so the 3.45 LSD from an SS would have lower gearing and therefore better acceleration but worse economy, but wouldn't it alter the speedo reading? Or am I still stuck in the world of older cars.

[chrispie123]

Ss are 2.92 lsd

[muso]

So both VE SS stock LSD and Calais VE V8 single spinner Diff are the same 2.92 ratio?

Someone in an earlier post on page one mentioned SS 3.45 LSD

[Micks]

So both VE SS stock LSD and Calais VE V8 single spinner Diff are the same 2.92 ratio?

Someone in an earlier post on page one mentioned SS 3.45 LSD

The SS diff 3.45 would be man only!

Cheers
VYT

[Wonky]

so the 3.45 LSD from an SS would have lower gearing and therefore better acceleration but worse economy, but wouldn't it alter the speedo reading? Or am I still stuck in the world of older cars.

I put a 3.45 diff from an M6 in my A6 and the change in economy was basically zilch!! It exits roundabouts etc so much easier now, which I suspect is why no change in economy because the motor doesn't have to work so hard to get it moving again. On the freeway I've still seen low 9s even with a (small) cam and almost 285rwkw. :goodjob:

[muso]

I put a 3.45 diff from an M6 in my A6 and the change in economy was basically zilch!! It exits roundabouts etc so much easier now, which I suspect is why no change in economy because the motor doesn't have to work so hard to get it moving again. On the freeway I've still seen low 9s even with a (small) cam and almost 285rwkw. :goodjob:

That's wicked wonky, what mods to get 285 rwkw's? What cam, I'll be interested in a "small" cam that does not sound like it's running on 7 cylinders so the cops won't notice me, I've heard that getting good power out of the L98 is nearly as easy as getting power out of the xr6 turbo, 285 rwkw's is a nice number not too mild but not too wild :)

[ajs]

I was in the same position this time last year, I was looking for a SSV or Calais in the VE range. I happened to look at a WM Caprice and with all the extra features could not go past it and as a bonus it was cheaper than the other cars I was looking at.

The Caprice had all the standard goodies plus a sunroof and sat. nav.

In the past 12 months the following mods have been done to the car and it runs great very pleased with how it goes now and still pretty good on fuel with plenty of power when needed.

I started with a full S/S exhaust system 2.5", VCM cold air intake , Maf tune, lowered SSLs and I have a set of Harrop brakes to go on, just got to do a trial fit before I repaint them silver instead of the red dont want them to stand out.

[Wonky]

That's wicked wonky, what mods to get 285 rwkw's? What cam, I'll be interested in a "small" cam that does not sound like it's running on 7 cylinders so the cops won't notice me, I've heard that getting good power out of the L98 is nearly as easy as getting power out of the xr6 turbo, 285 rwkw's is a nice number not too mild but not too wild :)

Full exhaust, DUS OTR, mafless tune got me to 260rwkw on Chev's dyno which seems to read about right, certainly not as happy as some. I initially (of my own volition :doh:) went for an LS7 cam which was basically a waste of time (I suspect 1.8 rockers as the LS7 runs normally would have helped), so then I went a small cam Chev's cam guy did for me because I wanted a bit of a lope, but not too much, to the idle. The cam didn't add very much power but did add a bucketload of torque!! At this year's LS.X Shootout it was getting crossed up on changes into 4th!! :eek:

For what you're after it sounds like an LS2 or LS3 cam would be perfect!! CHE (Castle Hill Exhausts - sponsor) have consistently gained mid 20s extra rwkw with the LS2 cam and the LS3 cam is slightly better. Both still give stock idle. :)

[CLUBRED]

Every time I see a caprice/statesman on the road I feel that was what I should have choosen. Especially now the little one's feet can reach the back of the front seats :( .

[ajs]

I have also done a diff swap to a HSV 3:2:7 ratio which I find works realy well with my mods. I was going to go the 3:4:5 ratio but after talking to some that have done this the 3:2:7 was spot on for performance and ecom especially for highway use. Wonky was one of the members that helped me with the decission and the guy I the diff from had VE HSV wagon and swaped to 3:4:5 and said his car is using more fuel and the ratio was not quite right and would not do the swap again, bonus was the diff was like new with only 800klms and limited slip.

I have also added a lip spoiler and dark tinted windows and must admit it sits well on the road and lowered longer wheel base makes the car look really good and different from the regular SS commodores

[theVman]

I am really suprised how cheap the Stateman/Caprice models are second hand. Thats a lot of car for the money.

Personally I would go a Calais V but a Caprice must be tempting.

[Angeldust]

whats the wheelbase diference between the stato and the calais?

[macca_779]

There are WM 6.0L for sale for under 20k. Lots of k's but that's fine for guys that look after their own cars


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[daztheclipper]

Just remember WM LSD is an option until the Vs ie, a 2007 WM Caprice LSD is an option. :(


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Daz

[macca_779]

Just remember WM LSD is an option until the Vs ie, a 2007 WM Caprice LSD is an option. :(


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Daz

Good excuse for a trutrack. Far better than the rubbish OEM LSD anyway.

[daztheclipper]

Good excuse for a trutrack. Far better than the rubbish OEM LSD anyway.
I just bought HEKYEHS LSD and had it installed, and spoke to a couple of people on the forum who suggested that unless you are going out drag racing all the time and or circuit ,which if you buy a Caprice Im suggesting this is not what you are intending to do, then the OEM LSD is more than adequate especially the later ones, mine is out of a 2010. :dancenana:

[dogsballs]

the statesman/caprice will be better bang for buck, but harder to sell when you are done with it (the market for barges is near obselete).

[dogsballs]

For what you're after it sounds like an LS2 or LS3 cam would be perfect!! CHE (Castle Hill Exhausts - sponsor) have consistently gained mid 20s extra rwkw with the LS2 cam and the LS3 cam is slightly better. Both still give stock idle. :)
LS2 higher hp by some quirky instance, up to 295rwkw, probably more on E85 and slight decking of heads (i'm in the process of doing this in L76)

http://www.castlehillexhaust.com.au/files/DK555C.jpg

[Sluggy]

I started my 'luxury Holden' days in a Calais, eventually moved up to a Statesman (VSII) and never looked back. Had a couple of Statesmans now, and would never go back to a Calais (looking at a Caprice next as the Stato nameplate is gone :bawl:), there's something about cruising in a LWB car that the Calais could never match (to me).

You could argue that a Calais is nothing but a tarted up Exec, at least the LWB cars have a unique (and loooong) body. The Calais is probably a better handler, but if I was interested in the twisties I'd look at an SS or HSV anyway. Not too many curves on the Stuart Highway.

Cheers, SLuggy

[muso]

Nice numbers on the dyno dogs! I may prefer the nimble handling of the calais.
But I still love the class and bang for your buck value on the used car market of the statesman or caprice!

[macca_779]

I just bought HEKYEHS LSD and had it installed, and spoke to a couple of people on the forum who suggested that unless you are going out drag racing all the time and or circuit ,which if you buy a Caprice Im suggesting this is not what you are intending to do, then the OEM LSD is more than adequate especially the later ones, mine is out of a 2010. :dancenana:

The same could be said about even owning an LSD. Traction control makes it irrelevant these days for wet weather conditions or even slippery areas like a boat ramp. Unless you want to power slide everywhere. But then for that you "should" be on a track. Hence a trutrack which are far more predictable.

[daztheclipper]

LWB all the way! More luxurious, much more comfortable over long distance and in fact if set up correctly handle pretty well! Ask Fishla what he thinks of the handling in my WM and if it sits ok around corners. Especially over long distance drives LWB deals with bumps and undulations in the road real well. If you ain't into dragging or circuit racing they are a sweet ride and IMO represent great value for money 2nd hand. ;)


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Daz

[daztheclipper]

The same could be said about even owning an LSD. Traction control makes it irrelevant these days for wet weather conditions or even slippery areas like a boat ramp. Unless you want to power slide everywhere. But then for that you "should" be on a track. Hence a trutrack which are far more predictable.

Sorry Macca I disagree, since having the LSD installed I now have the option of driving without TC etc on whereas without the LSD it was pointless turning it off. I much prefer an LSD to a single spinner for predictability and handling than a single spinner but I'm not going to go racing everyday. Just my opinion bud I'm sure the trutrac is everything it's meant to be but for everyday maybe a once or twice run down the 1/4 for fun I can't see why the OEM LSD isn't sufficient. :)


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Daz

[muso]

When looking at a VE 6.0 is there a tag or something on the diff centre to show that it's LSD rather than open wheeler? Or is it a matter of checking the compliance plate under the bonnet to see what options there are on that particular vehicle?

This is of course without driving it, and with the owner in the car it really isn't very nice spinning the wheels to see if it has a LSD!

[daztheclipper]

When looking at a VE 6.0 is there a tag or something on the diff centre to show that it's LSD rather than open wheeler? Or is it a matter of checking the compliance plate under the bonnet to see what options there are on that particular vehicle?

This is of course without driving it, and with the owner in the car it really isn't very nice spinning the wheels to see if it has a LSD!
Tag is on bottom of diff it will have LSD: Y or LSD: N on it plus a barcode and ratio. ;)


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Daz

[dogsballs]

unless its aftermarket, sometimes they don't put that on ;)

[Sluggy]

When did the LSD become optional? In my WK brochure it states that the LSD was a mandatory option if the V8 (LS1) is fitted. My car has the LSD but nothing on the options plate mentioning it.

Cheers, SLuggy

[daztheclipper]

When did the LSD become optional? In my WK brochure it states that the LSD was a mandatory option if the V8 (LS1) is fitted. My car has the LSD but nothing on the options plate mentioning it.

Cheers, SLuggy

WM I know for a fact it was an option on the Caprice but not too sure when it came into play? Was it an option on WL?


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Daz

[muso]

I do get confused between L76 and L98 engine, as aar as I know the Calais V and WM statesman/caprice has the L76 engine and the SS manual has the L98.

But I constantly hear/read people talking about their Statesman L98 or Calais L98. I know the L98 does not have displacement on demand.

So what does a 2007 VE Calais or WM stato/caprice have L76 or L98?

[Micks]

2007 both L98

Cheers
VYT

[muso]

2007 both L98

Cheers
VYT

So only the later VE V8's (2009 onwards I think) with "AFM" displacement on demand have the L76?

[muso]

I think I may be straying too far from the original thread question but I guess it is still related.

Have the problems been ironed out by 2007 (late 2007)?
You do hear of teething problems with new models, I know VE calais can flatten it's battery, I think it was a bcm problem, also the 6 speed auto is apparently a bit indecisive as far as what gear it should be in but a tune fixes that and the gearbox is excellent then (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread).

I assume the original piston slap, oil burn/leak problems of the LS1 are non existent in the L98!

[Wonky]

So only the later VE V8's (2009 onwards I think) with "AFM" displacement on demand have the L76?

:yup: From memory the DOD/AFM L76 was introduced start of production 2009 for all A6, so if you have a 2006-2008 build A6 it will be an L98.

[muso]

:yup: From memory the DOD/AFM L76 was introduced start of production 2009 for all A6, so if you have a 2006-2008 build A6 it will be an L98.

Yeah I thought it was something like that, cheers Wonky :)

[StoneX]

so the 3.45 LSD from an SS would have lower gearing and therefore better acceleration but worse economy, but wouldn't it alter the speedo reading? Or am I still stuck in the world of older cars.
Nope, the VE has wheel speed sensors. Speedo stays correct :dancenana:

Can't remember the exact figures but I think my car was 1,500RPM @ 100km/h before the diff, then 1,800RPM @ 100km/h after which shows the speedo changed itself. Also, before the diff replacement my GPS showed 105km/h when my car showed 100km/h and after the diff replacement it was exactly the same.

[Micks]

Nope, the VE has wheel speed sensors. Speedo stays correct :dancenana:

Can't remember the exact figures but I think my car was 1,500RPM @ 100km/h before the diff, then 1,800RPM @ 100km/h after which shows the speedo changed itself. Also, before the diff replacement my GPS showed 105km/h when my car showed 100km/h and after the diff replacement it was exactly the same.

Thread on this already, but has been proven some models in the VE range will require correction! Mine did & all the series uses transmission VSS as well.

Cheers
VYT

[Wonky]

Also, before the diff replacement my GPS showed 105km/h when my car showed 100km/h and after the diff replacement it was exactly the same.

Hopefully you mean the other way around or you'd be getting lots of pictures of your car in the mail! :eek:

[StoneX]

Thread on this already, but has been proven some models in the VE range will require correction! Mine did & all the series uses transmission VSS as well.

Cheers
VYT
Sorry, I haven't seen that thread. Do you know what it's called? I'd like to have a read.


Hopefully you mean the other way around or you'd be getting lots of pictures of your car in the mail! :eek:
Haha. Yes, you're correct :doh:
It's out by 5% so 105km/h on the speedo is actually 100km/h. 63km/h on the speedo is actually 60km/h. etc etc.

[muso]

Hey thanks to all you guys who posted, it really has been a great help :)

So my mind is made up it's a VE Calais V 6.0 with the cream interior (I sat in one and prefer it over the grey interior). I don't know what paint colours come with the cream interior but I've seen black, maroon and some grey colours, I think the Maroon looks classy, but so does the Grey and Black, how popular is the maroon?

I would also down the track plan on converting to Liquid gas LPG injection like in my xr6t (there's something I like about having a 12 second family car which costs $28.00 a week to run)! Pity about the rebate decreasing, the conversion cost is expensive, the 6.0 L98 engine apparently runs well on LI Gas.

[WKGrange]

I'll sure you'll like it but you made the wrong choise the bigger car is always better. :)


Hey thanks to all you guys who posted, it really has been a great help :)

So my mind is made up it's a VE Calais V 6.0 with the cream interior (I sat in one and prefer it over the grey interior). I don't know what paint colours come with the cream interior but I've seen black, maroon and some grey colours, I think the Maroon looks classy, but so does the Grey and Black, how popular is the maroon?

I would also down the track plan on converting to Liquid gas LPG injection like in my xr6t (there's something I like about having a 12 second family car which costs $28.00 a week to run)! Pity about the rebate decreasing, the conversion cost is expensive, the 6.0 L98 engine apparently runs well on LI Gas.

[muso]

Yeah I'm sure the WM would cruise and ride beautifully, but a lot of my driving is urban and I would prefer the easier to maneuver Calais, for country road trips the WM for sure. I sat in a WM Caprice and it felt very long, stunning car though and in black with nice wheels they would be a traffic stopper :)