Motor Magazine Hot Tuner Final [Archive] - Australian LS1 and Holden Forums

spiv

14-10-2011, 07:25 PM

Hi All,

I just got a copy of the Hot Tuner Final in Motor Magazine and it was fantastic reading, the conclusion was that the highest RWKW's does not necessarily mean the fastest car for both 0-100 and 1/4 mile. This just confirms that chassis set up and tyre grip are king. Fascinating reading. Herrods FPV GS won the highest RWKW's with a cat back exhaust i.e stock cast factory headers and cats, intercooler, pulley upgrade and K&N air filter in the stock air box recording 419.3 RWKW's....but the real surprise was the Autotech GT which had only 328.8 RWKW's but recorded the fastest 0-100 time of 4.38 seconds and 1/4 mile time of 12.15 seconds....food for thought me thinks....:driving:

macca_779

14-10-2011, 07:31 PM

Any Holden's even stand a chance?

spiv

14-10-2011, 07:39 PM

HPF got an excellent wrap. Buy the magazine, read it, and all shall be revealed.

Any Holden's even stand a chance?

bouka

14-10-2011, 07:49 PM

HPF got an excellent wrap. Buy the magazine, read it, and all shall be revealed.

How many adds did HPF have in the mag.

Let me guess, the Holdens handled better.

Nothing comes close to the SC FPV motors, especially for the little mods required to get massive gains.

FPV are thumping HSV at the moment in the power stakes.

spiv

14-10-2011, 07:59 PM

So True when you can spend $3k and get 370 RWKW's, witout even needing an intercooler. Stock GT's are making 320 RWKW's BEFORE a Tune.

My prediction is that the Ford Coyote motor will be to the performance industry what the LS1 was 10 years ago. The only problem is that they are only available in the FPV range so production numbers will be limited, but in 3 years when they come out of leases and are traded in me thinks that it will be a whole new ball game. They are so "de-tuned" from the factory especially the GS's which have the same hard ware as the GT but have a very soft tune, these l say will be the future weapon of choice, and will still meet all the emission requirements as they do not have to be "cracked" open (i.e. no cam upgrades needed) to make serious power.

How many adds did HPF have in the mag.

Let me guess, the Holdens handled better.

Nothing comes close to the SC FPV motors, especially for the little mods required to get massive gains.

FPV are thumping HSV at the moment in the power stakes.

silvervyss

14-10-2011, 11:02 PM

So True when you can spend $3k and get 370 RWKW's, witout even needing an intercooler. Stock GT's are making 320 RWKW's BEFORE a Tune.

My prediction is that the Ford Coyote motor will be to the performance industry what the LS1 was 10 years ago. The only problem is that they are only available in the FPV range so production numbers will be limited, but in 3 years when they come out of leases and are traded in me thinks that it will be a whole new ball game. They are so "de-tuned" from the factory especially the GS's which have the same hard ware as the GT but have a very soft tune, these l say will be the future weapon of choice, and will still meet all the emission requirements as they do not have to be "cracked" open (i.e. no cam upgrades needed) to make serious power.

And that is the reason I will changing to a FPV when I sell the SS.

bonners

15-10-2011, 05:11 AM

I have a mate with the supercharged GT and he simply loves it. And the FG isn't a bad looking car either

I'm not sure I could jump back in a Ford after turning my back on an AU more than 10 years ago, but these new FPV's certainly make it hard

Tyre biter

15-10-2011, 06:40 AM

...The only problem is that they are only available in the FPV range so production numbers will be limited...

Word is the XR8 will make a return 2012;
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/melbourne-motor-show/2011-melbourne-motor-show-ford-eyes-xr8-return-20110701-1gun1.html
No confirmation, but no denial either on return of Ford's affordable muscle car.

Ford has offered the strongest hint yet at the return of a V8 to its mainstream Falcon range, a move which could spell the end of FPV's cut-price GS range.

The previous XR8 model was quietly killed off last June when Ford's former V8 engine, a 5.4-litre unit, was overtaken by stricter new emissions regulations.

But the arrival late last year of 5.0-litre supercharged V8 developed by engineering firm Prodrive specifically for Ford Performance Vehicles has left the door ajar.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/50936/2011-ford-falcon-xr8-a-sure-thing-burela
Ford Australia President and CEO Marin Burela has confirmed that the XR8 will return to the company's Falcon line-up, despite being absent since the introduction of tougher emissions legislation in June this year.

So all going well, your prediction as to the Coyote becoming the modern-day LS1 in terms of the performance/modification market may well come to fruition.

Cheers, TB

AndrewMSS

15-10-2011, 07:10 AM

Would they supercharge the XR8 or go n/a? Seems they would be cutting FPV's lunch if they went with the blower.

FLY-346

15-10-2011, 07:22 AM

do these things only come in supercharged form or is there an n/a version? would be interesting to see what it'd be like without that artificial power crap in comparison to the LS

spiv

15-10-2011, 08:20 AM

do these things only come in supercharged form or is there an n/a version? would be interesting to see what it'd be like without that artificial power crap in comparison to the LS

They are naturally aspirated in the US and make over 400hp, with a 7,000 rev limit. So you can see how the GS 315, rated at 420 hp is so detuned and how much potential it has waiting to be awoken. It's a super efficient engine with a fully counter weighted forged steel crank, piston oil squirters, factory fitted oil cooler etc The reason they dropped the 5.4 liter v8 was that it did not meet the Euro IV spec emissions which are now mandatory. So even in stock unboosted form it has plenty of potential more than enough to match Holden's 6l.

Tyre biter

15-10-2011, 08:23 AM

Would they supercharge the XR8 or go n/a? Seems they would be cutting FPV's lunch if they went with the blower.

Who knows - I am no Ford insider but everything I have read alludes to a NA version for the return of XR8 because a SC version would 'steal' sales from FPV, and as with Holden/HSV there needs to be a differentiation between the two so that customers can 'justify' the extra spend and Ford can equally 'justify' the extra ask.

Cheers, TB

bouka

15-10-2011, 09:42 AM

Hey TB, long time no see.

GS was meant to be XR8 but for a last minute change of heart by ford so it became the GS we see today.

It will be interesting to see how the XR8 will fit into the product mix.

Probably na and it is not a bad thing as the coyote is a brilliant motor. Stangs in the US are doing 11's with tune only.

FPV has made wholesale changes to base motor basically starting off with the block and head castings and they hand build them in the engine plant in Vic. One person puts the entire motor together and starts with the block and goes from there.

Forged crank, rods and Mahle pistons etc.

They have some issues to sort out (water pump) and the doffs can leak but as a motor they are truly something else.

Tuners are finding the limits of the charger way before the motor.

Maybe Martin can fill us in some more.

Uncle Tone

15-10-2011, 09:45 AM

Love the pic of Skipper from Walkinshaw Performance :D

calais190

15-10-2011, 09:56 AM

Great read! And every interesting to see that all the cars are running Pedders XA Extreme coilovers except for KPM's SS (which ran H&R). Also most cars were fitted with pedders/whiteline sway bars which Pedders sell both anyway. Seems like they're on the ball.

It was a shame the tests were done in wet weather, wouldnt been great to see what the cars could do on a warm sticky track.

wp01

17-10-2011, 09:01 AM

Love the pic of Skipper from Walkinshaw Performance :D

Thanks Tone ....

brasher

17-10-2011, 10:58 AM

That HPF SS looks so good debadged and un-cluttered, throw the Walkinshaw ADV.1 Rims on it and it's the perfect car :woot:

lysergic

17-10-2011, 02:30 PM

Herrods FPV GS won the highest RWKW's with a cat back exhaust i.e stock cast factory headers and cats, intercooler, pulley upgrade and K&N air filter in the stock air box recording 419.3 RWKW's....but the real surprise was the Autotech GT which had only 328.8 RWKW's but recorded the fastest 0-100 time of 4.38 seconds and 1/4 mile time of 12.15 seconds....food for thought me thinks....:driving:

So the FPV with 419.3RWKW couldn't run better than 12.15 1/4 mile? that is pretty bad

Martin_D

17-10-2011, 03:18 PM

I think you will find it was backwards on the Eastern Creek front straight in dampish conditions. Not bad really...but also not really indicative of what these cars will do :)
The 2 x R35s that were there only ran low 11s with all wheel drive, and these things should both walk 10s pretty easy on a drag strip.

185iboy

17-10-2011, 04:10 PM

Gonna go get it tonight. Is the HPF SS s/c or turbo? Where is CSV with their VE??? They're missing out on a good chunk of business

Also never trust a magazine for an accurate drag time slip. All the featured cars should be running ET Streets anyway

SV300

17-10-2011, 04:40 PM

I am disappointed at the walkinshaw only doing 13.3, must be the only one affected by the track???

Martin, any comments on this?? I know you will have one, maybe not what I want to here though.

My next gts was going to be much the same, although next year though.

James

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Martin_D

17-10-2011, 04:54 PM

I have no idea what went on with the testing cars other than talking to Herrod about their Proto8 at the time. We do a bit of work together, hence I was interested to hear what was going on with their particular car :)

spiv

17-10-2011, 06:06 PM

So the FPV with 419.3RWKW couldn't run better than 12.15 1/4 mile? that is pretty bad

Below is a quote from Rob Herrod in response to one of my posts of the Fordforum.com.au, which should help to explain what was going on.

"Thanks for coming in and getting our cat back exhaust and i am glad that you are happy with it. we are very happy with the outcome with motor hot tuner . we just go piped at the post when you look at the times on the 1/4 mile but the mile an hour shows that as we knew on the day that traction was the biggest killer as we have on board video showing the car wheel spinning nearly the entire track and we still had the fastest MPH .The good thing for me was seeing all the Ford vehicles being tuned with our SCT software and our vehicle having the highest dyno reading out of the entire range of cars not just the australian section .when you look at the costs of some of the mods from other tuners it just highlights how good the FPV vehicle is as it does not need an endless supply of money to make them perform Its a shame that the weather was so bad and we did not get to see the full potential of the testing that was being done.":driving:

exwrx

17-10-2011, 09:22 PM

Spiv you should know better than to introduce facts to a good ford bagging ;)

Awesome world class cars, all of them.

spiv

17-10-2011, 10:12 PM

Spiv you should know better than to introduce facts to a good ford bagging ;)

Awesome world class cars, all of them.

Hi Spiro,

All I know is that a supercharged coyote +$3k = 370 RWKW's

Sounds like the muscle car scare of 1972 has just been revived, how long before the politicians crack the sads and take away our last piece of freedom:hitler:

macca33

17-10-2011, 11:03 PM

Would they supercharge the XR8 or go n/a? Seems they would be cutting FPV's lunch if they went with the blower.

The Coyote S/C engine is not yet intercooled in the current FPV range, is it???

Non I/C for the XR8, I/C for the FPVs - plenty of performance differentiation potential there, I'd suspect.

Either way, these things are blardy exciting!

boggers007

17-10-2011, 11:25 PM

Im going to say the miami which if im right is the non s/c version of this would be the XR8 engine.

brasher

18-10-2011, 06:24 AM

GTS PAUL

18-10-2011, 06:33 AM

How many rear wheel Kw and only running low 12's. Wow thats so strange:fishing:

Paul

LuisS

18-10-2011, 06:37 AM

Love the pic of Skipper from Walkinshaw Performance :D

Oh don't worry Tone , he is a bit of a superstar :) ......get him to sign your copy !

2ajmanvell82

18-10-2011, 10:17 AM

Its a good read and great to see a feature of some tough modified cars of all configurations...

Results are really hard to work with though with the feature being done in the wet and all vehicles running different tyres....

The harrop car running N/A LS7 was on full slicks, so if you have a look at what it managed on slicks in the wet it would have been a much better feature had there been a little better conditions..

Have a look at the motokhana times and u will see near all the holdens were faster than the fords...

I think all the cars would be awesome vehicles and it's just a shame the times recorded etc don't reflect how good the potential of all of them could be...

Would of been awesome to be involved in though and get to jump behind the wheel of what our tuners are putting out there as packages...

the new FPV S/C vehicles have massive potential which sux for us Holden supporters but hopefully drives Holden/HSV to step up in the future and build something like some of the feature concepts also in the mag with the GTS-r concept with the LSA supercharged motor or even better the LS9!!! Here's to dreaming.... 1 thing I like to doing the modifying yourself/workshop is that other drivers aren't expectig your car to be supercharged etc and has made for a wider spread of modified holdens N/A and S/C...

korrupt

18-10-2011, 11:09 AM

Shame the rest of the magazine has spelling mistakes, factual errors, etc. Makes me wonder why I still subscribe...

wp01

18-10-2011, 11:24 AM

Oh don't worry Tone , he is a bit of a superstar :) ......get him to sign your copy !

Big Fella ,, yours is in the mail !

When you coming by ? :)

AL

kayman

18-10-2011, 04:42 PM

How many adds did HPF have in the mag.

Let me guess, the Holdens handled better.

Nothing comes close to the SC FPV motors, especially for the little mods required to get massive gains.

FPV are thumping HSV at the moment in the power stakes.

HSV have something in line for VF GTS that will take back the crown.

bouka

18-10-2011, 05:31 PM

HSV have something in line for VF GTS that will take back the crown.

Really!

Will have to be bloody good.

What can you tell us about it?

Stampy

19-10-2011, 08:41 AM

I'd be very interested to see Holden/HSV's response to this Phenomenal Engine, and FPV's changes when FG11 come's out....Intercooler, better spender's.....God help us!

JRY 88

19-10-2011, 08:50 AM

As of last week there won't be any performance/engine changes for the FPV range for FGII.

Unless they decide to scrap the latest FPV dealer bulletin and change their minds.

Aus8

19-10-2011, 09:46 AM

Is there still a HO rumor around? The reality is HSV could slap a 360kw badge on the next GTS and it would still be less powerful than the current GT. The Turbo 6's and These new 8's are being way way understated for power. Great times for consumer!!

Martin_D

19-10-2011, 04:31 PM

bouka

19-10-2011, 06:04 PM

Whilst the wheel spin is fun in a hoon kinda way, I totally agree with you Martin.

Expecting a more discerning buyer in this market place may be a tall ask, but it appears the sentiment amongst those that actually buy them is shifting more towards drivetrain refinement than just power hikes.

If HSV/FPV want to retain buyers as their hair color changes then that will have to be the way they go.

spiv

19-10-2011, 06:16 PM

The fact that the GTRs with a ton less power at the wheels than the local cars could run over a second better down the 400m in real world conditions during this test shows that the smartest investment the local manufacturers could make is in driveline technology rather than putting more power behind the pogo stick tramping rear ends they both feature. It costs money to do, but maybe one day consumers will become more discerning.... :teach:

When the FPV's are "tuned" they over power the chassis, it's frustrating and dangerous to say the least.

I was thinking about this problem today with my tuned GS 315 and proposed the following solution: correctly valved Bilstein shocks in the rear, Harrop Tru Track and stickier tyres ( will need to evaluate this further). When you are attempting to leave the line promptly to merge and you break traction with 1/4 throttle in the dry it becomes a safety issue imho. It's all too "easy" to make HP these days but chassis tuning is the real secret weapon and anyone who has worked this out and knows how to make a car hook up safely should be commended more so than just the tuner who produces the highest HP no.;)

Martin_D

19-10-2011, 06:37 PM

Expecting a more discerning buyer in this market place may be a tall ask, but it appears the sentiment amongst those that actually buy them is shifting more towards drivetrain refinement than just power hikes. If HSV/FPV want to retain buyers as their hair color changes then that will have to be the way they go.

Thats because when they are optioned these cars are starting to push $100K - very serious coin....

kayman

19-10-2011, 09:14 PM

Really!

Will have to be bloody good.

What can you tell us about it?

supercharger...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Stampy

20-10-2011, 01:42 AM

I would presume FG11 would address some of the chassis issues, my F6 310 was to much for the FG chassis stock!!!!

Vulture

20-10-2011, 09:43 AM

Thats because when they are optioned these cars are starting to push $100K - very serious coin....

A good point. In 2011 onwards this sort of money for a big, heavy, 13s car based on an Omega looks expensive.

calais190

20-10-2011, 10:04 AM

When the FPV's are "tuned" they over power the chassis, it's frustrating and dangerous to say the least.

I was thinking about this problem today with my tuned GS 315 and proposed the following solution: correctly valved Bilstein shocks in the rear, Harrop Tru Track and stickier tyres ( will need to evaluate this further). When you are attempting to leave the line promptly to merge and you break traction with 1/4 throttle in the dry it becomes a safety issue imho. It's all too "easy" to make HP these days but chassis tuning is the real secret weapon and anyone who has worked this out and knows how to make a car hook up safely should be commended more so than just the tuner who produces the highest HP no.;)

You're on the ball with that statement.

The issue with the FG F6s from day one was traction. It's all good and well if your car is making 300+rwkw, but if you can never get all of that power to the ground, there's no real victory.

Changing up a few key suspension parts, adding fatter/stickier tyres and a tru trac isn't a very costly exercise to achieve faster acceleration on the aftermarket scene... There is definitely improvements to be had there.

As for the GTRs being so much quicker - at almost double the price of the tuned Holdens and Fords, you'd bloody hope they were quicker...