vyss 4l80e conversion help

[coop447]

Hi guys
Im getting things started on my 4l80e conversion on my vyss ute.
Ive got most of the info i need and have a box coming.
I would love to get some info from guys that have done this conversion themselvs.
Im planing on running my gen3 pcm but i want to find out if its as simple as just getting a wire loom extension for the round plug, the only wire loom extensions i can find are ones that you need to solder the second plug to.
What i need to find out is if the configeration of the wires stay the same or are they changed?
Also i would like to find out if i can just plug my speedo plug on to one of the speedo sensors on the side of the 4l80e box for it to work?
Also who makes good converters for these boxes in Aus and who can make up the crossmember?
Thanks guys any info would be great.

[RetroTuner]

Speak to the guys at Sideshow ... You will need PCM to be reflashed with American operating system to operate the gearbox .

[coop447]

Yeah i rang them thismorning
He seams to think i need to send my whole wire harness down to him and they will have to work out what wires go where in what configeration and also extend it, they werent 100% sure tho, he said he would have to look into it.
Im getting so much conflicting info from so many people about it i dont know what to belive.
All i need to do is talk to someone that has done this conversion that knows for a fact what needs to be done with the wires and programing.
I just need someone to tell me ive done that conversion and i got this guy to do the harness and this guy to program the ecu.
Most guys from shops will only help you so much with info unless you start paying them for something, wich is prob fair enough.

Any info guys?

[SirNemesis]

There are a few threads on LS1TECH with wiring information and whats required with the PCM. Worth looking into if you are doing a bit of DIY.

[Big123]

I've done this conversion .
Its costly but worth every cent . Especialy when your putting out over 550 rwkws through a high stalled 4L80e box .
Where are you getting the box from in the states ? Jakes ?

I was lucky to find mine localy and I got it built by Craigs Automatics . Good for 1500 HP with Billet shafts and drum .
---

You will need a crossmember to be made up from scratch and you will need to use a turbo400 trans mount .

Tailshaft length doesn't change but you will need to change the front of your shaft to the much larger and stronger 31 spline 4L80e style or Turbo400 , They are both the same .

Where the loom plugs into the 4L80e your wirring will hit the body , So before you fit the box you will have to cut out in around 10mm in the reo underneath to clear .

Also on the 4l80e box it has 2 extra tabs like ears on each side that you will need to cut otherwise they will hit your exhaust .

Flexplate : If you going to get a converter made to suit your aplication buy a TCI flexplate #399753 and get the outer side to match a LS1 3 bolt setup .

**If you already have the 6 bolt 4L80e converter then buy a TCI # 399754 , But this is not recommended because most 4L80e originaly came from Big Trucks that either had a big block in them or a deisel , Either way the converter won't be suited for our cars .

Now to control the Box .
You will use the standard VY Computer using a standard 4L60e program , Either efilive or HP tuners ,

You don't need to run another speed sensor like speartech does .
Only use the rear sensor and plug the front one with an old sensor .

The shift points need adjusting to suit the box because it has different gear ratios then the 4L60e .
. Now you need to disable codes P0785 and P1860 in the tune, otherwise it will not act properly and throw a code.

You need to obviously extend the wirring loom to reach the other side of the box , But you will also need to swap some wires around and reverse the action of shift B solenoid using a 5 pin relay .

I have a detailed PDF with pictures of the pins if you need them email me at chamra1@exemail.com.au and I'll send them to you .



Hi guys
Im getting things started on my 4l80e conversion on my vyss ute.
Ive got most of the info i need and have a box coming.
I would love to get some info from guys that have done this conversion themselvs.
Im planing on running my gen3 pcm but i want to find out if its as simple as just getting a wire loom extension for the round plug, the only wire loom extensions i can find are ones that you need to solder the second plug to.
What i need to find out is if the configeration of the wires stay the same or are they changed?
Also i would like to find out if i can just plug my speedo plug on to one of the speedo sensors on the side of the 4l80e box for it to work?
Also who makes good converters for these boxes in Aus and who can make up the crossmember?
Thanks guys any info would be great.

[johnv]

Speartech make a conversion harness for 4l60e to 4l80e and also T56 to 4l80e
around $150 USD, then most get a 4l80e trans calibration segment swap flashed into there PCM.

I have read that it is posibble to reconfigure the trans wiring to run on a 4l60e
calibration, but as yet haven't been able to confirm how this is done.
looking into it tho as i want to go down this road soon.

[coop447]

Just the sort of stuff i want to hear, thats great guys
I got a secondhand box from melborne, it should be here this week.
Ive been talking to Mike from Jakes in the states and im prob going to buy a master rebuild kit from him with a few better bits in it and get a local guy to build it here.
Im not running huge hp but its got a bit of torque as its got a blower on it. its got 350 kw and 800nm of torque at the wheels.
Mike said it should be ok with the bits hes sending so can only hope for the best.
Hey big123 i would love to see those wire diagrams if thats ok i will send u an email
Cheers guys, i appreciate the help

[coop447]

e mail sent :woot:

[skidmarx]

Seems like alot of hassle for the power. Why not a 4L60/65? Those can easily handle the power when built

[coop447]

Everyone ive spoken to thats had a fair bit to do with them all say the same thig, that even after its built up its still not a matter of if it stuffs up but when.
I just dont want to pulling boxes in and out every 6 or 12 months, it just takes the fun out of it.
Im going to put some weights in the back of it for traction so it will have a fair bit of load going through it.

[skidmarx]

I've had 400rwkw going through mine for 12 months now, 12,000k's. Craigs built 4L60, 4200 stall. To be honest I give it hell. Raced twice a month usually. Hasn't missed a beat. Did an oil change recently, looked as new. Just a thought :)

[Big123]

Craigs built my 4L80e and I'm in melb .

Even Craigs 4L60e boxes don't last at these power levels . And he's the best in OZ .

I've had 400rwkw going through mine for 12 months now, 12,000k's. Craigs built 4L60, 4200 stall. To be honest I give it hell. Raced twice a month usually. Hasn't missed a beat. Did an oil change recently, looked as new. Just a thought :)

[Big123]

Didn't get any email
Try this :
chamra1@exemail.com.au
e mail sent :woot:

[johnv]

I recently grenaded my clutch, I'm over the m6 trans at my power level, so a 4l80e looks like the best option.
Anything over 400 rwkw and it's not worth throwing money at a 60e.

Big, sent you an email re the wiring pdf for 4l80e.

[coop447]

Thats the e mail address i sent it to, i will try it again and see what happens.

Yeah John i know what u saying, from what im told around the place the 60 isnt a good long term box for something with a bit of power.

My 4l80 turned up thismorning, it has a gm reco sticker on it.

Ok e mail sent again
I just tryed posting my e mail up but it wont let me as my posts are under 20 :(
My number is 0414949948 if the e mail doesnt come through i can send u mine if u send me a text.
Id love to have a chat to u big about the conversion if thats ok with u?

[coop447]

Hey big
What did u do with the gear selector switch on the side of the box?, theres no way mine will go on there

[coop447]

I just tryed to put the gear selector switch on and have found the shaft is too short and there is no lugs on the box to bolt it to.
I just had a look at some other pics of 4l80e boxes and some have a longer shaft coming out of the box and they have a lug up the front for the switch bracket to bolt to.
Maybe i bought the wrong box?
The things giving me the shits already.
I wonder how long i would get out of a built 4l60e lol...... its starting to make me think.

[Big123]

I used my 4l60e switch and shifter . It all bolted up ?
Maybe the shaft has been hit and has moved into the box .
From memory it has an internal circlip , So if you take the pan off you can see everything.

What car did the box come out of ?

Try hosting a picture of it , Also the wirring plug , I bet you its a pre 1991 box .

Anyway its not a problem anyway . You can buy all the parts very cheap .
A new shaft isn't expensive Also late model internal wirring is cheap too . Try PATC .

I just tryed to put the gear selector switch on and have found the shaft is too short and there is no lugs on the box to bolt it to.
I just had a look at some other pics of 4l80e boxes and some have a longer shaft coming out of the box and they have a lug up the front for the switch bracket to bolt to.
Maybe i bought the wrong box?
The things giving me the shits already.
I wonder how long i would get out of a built 4l60e lol...... its starting to make me think.

[Big123]

Heres what you need .
Its $24 US

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/38511-01K.jpg
I just tryed to put the gear selector switch on and have found the shaft is too short and there is no lugs on the box to bolt it to.
I just had a look at some other pics of 4l80e boxes and some have a longer shaft coming out of the box and they have a lug up the front for the switch bracket to bolt to.
Maybe i bought the wrong box?
The things giving me the shits already.
I wonder how long i would get out of a built 4l60e lol...... its starting to make me think.

[coop447]

Cool mate thanks for that
Even if i put that shaft in i still cant bolt up the switch to anything by the looks of it.
It looks like the ones with the short shafts dont have the lugs on the case for the switch to bolt to but the ones with the long shafts have the lugs on them.
I didnt plan on this but i wonder how a new 4l80e stock box would handel my power, i could sell my box i just got and buy a new one with a shift kit and be done with it.
I have read some forums with guys running them stock with similar power and having no problems.
Not sure what to do now.

[coop447]

It still has no lugs for the switch to bolt to on the case tho
Not sure what to do with that one, maybe i should sell it and buy a new stock one with a shift kit, i wonder how that would go.
I have read a couple of guys on forums are running them stock with no trouble with similar power.

[coop447]

Looks like they prob have some other boxes there with the lugs on them and hopfully the long shaft.
Hey big did my second e mail get through?

[coop447]

Ive also heard something about the lock up on the torque converter being different with this conversion?
Any ideas?

[coop447]

Ok im at 15 posts
I can post an email after 20

[coop447]

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[coop447]

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[coop447]

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[coop447]

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[coop447]

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[coop447]

Ok il try it now
coop447@yahoo.com
I would love to get those wire diagrams big
Cheers

[johnv]

So can anyone tell me what the differences are between the early, pre 1997 4l80e and the later post 1997 4l80e ?

[Big123]

There are few different types of 2wd 4L80e.

Early 1990-93 had a different internal wirring loom ( Easily upgraded though), No 12 o'clock belhousing bolt hole , 2 trans cooler lines next to each other like the 4l60e does .

1993-1996 Got the new wirring loom , Simular to our 4L60e , Still no 12 o'clock belhousing bolt hole , 2 trans cooler lines next to each other like the 4l60e does .

1997 -2000 ?? Unsure exact , Simular to above but they upgraded to a extra bellhousing bolt hole at the 12'oclock position .

2000- current ??
Same as above but they moved the cooler line apart , They upgraded one oil cooler line into the rear tailhousing so assist lube etc.

In my setup I'm using a 1995 .


If you can wait a few untill I get a chance I'll post pics on the hoist of everything I can.


So can anyone tell me what the differences are between the early, pre 1997 4l80e and the later post 1997 4l80e ?

[doubledip]

Yeah i rang them thismorning
He seams to think i need to send my whole wire harness down to him and they will have to work out what wires go where in what configeration and also extend it, they werent 100% sure tho, he said he would have to look into it.


the reason i said send the whole harness was because we dont have the maiting plug for the transmission plug... so bit hard to do the work with out the harness..... also as stated needs wiring swapped around and is as stated over the phone would run new wires from PCM to trans plug for you...

definately doable as i shave spoken 2 3 shops that do this conversion

[coop447]

the reason i said send the whole harness was because we dont have the maiting plug for the transmission plug... so bit hard to do the work with out the harness..... also as stated needs wiring swapped around and is as stated over the phone would run new wires from PCM to trans plug for you...

definately doable as i shave spoken 2 3 shops that do this conversion

Hey Justin
Thats all cool mate i wasnt doubting you.
Since talking on the phone to you the other day i have been speaking with a member on here thats done the same conversion and is still running the 4l60e program, sounds like there is a few ways to run them and set them up.
He has sent me the wire diagram and it doesnt look to hard.
Pretty much just switch a couple of wires and connect a relay up to reverse 1 of the solinoyds.
There is a couple of other things in the program that need to be changed too.
Looks like i can make my self up an extension and do the wire swap on the extension aswell as adding the relay, ive just got to get a gearbox plug as i have a spair harness plug.
Hopfully all goes to plan.

[Big123]

For those that are still interested in this conversion .
Pics are here:
4l80e Box
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/02/21/15422012_large.jpg

Standard Shifter is used, Also the relay needed for the electronics:
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/02/70/15422007_large.jpg

Cutout needed for the wirring:

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/02/90/15422009_large.jpg

Cooler lines:

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/02/50/15422005_large.jpg

[SirNemesis]

Thanks for that!

[Big123]

I'll post more pics in the next few days of the whole car in a new thread .

[vltrb-0]

where did you get a hold of the braided lines and fittings?

[Big123]

The an -6 fittings in the box are for a turbo400. The braided lines I made up from parts from vpw.

[johnv]

I read somewhere you need to use the factory oil cooler return fitting in trans, it extends about 25mm into trans, something to do with oil feed to tailshaft bearing.

[Big123]

Thats true , But only for the later model 4L80e where they relocated one of the cooler lines into the rear tailhousing .

These boxes started in 1997 onwards .
This fitting:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqZ,!jgE1uYT6qBnBNkO-37CGQ~~_1.JPG

The earlier boxes like mine are a direct copy of the TH400 .
These use this fitting:
http://www.furiousperformance.com.au/store/images/Speedflow/816-06-NPS.jpg


I read somewhere you need to use the factory oil cooler return fitting in trans, it extends about 25mm into trans, something to do with oil feed to tailshaft bearing.

[coop447]

Ok its done

The 4l80e has been built and is all in the car and up and running.
It wasnt a bad conversion at all.
Ive only driven it around the block a few times and havent given it a hard time yet but i did grunt it around a bit and at this stage i cant feal any power loss.
Some people might not want to do this conversion because they have heard you will loose power. because the 4l80e boxes have taller first and second gear ratios is the reason i would say. i think mine will be ok because of the extra torque i have with the supercharger but anyone with an engine that doesnt have low down torque dont worry because you can buy the gears for first and second that are the same as the 4l60e. I think they are about $1000 and if you are getting the box built anyway all that has to come out.
If your sick of pulling your 4l60e in and out and spending heaps of $ every time you do it then just put a 4l80 e in it, dont be scared its not that hard.
There is a bit of mucking around but well worth it i would say.

A big thanks to big123 for helping me out with all the info on it, everything went spot on.

[johnv]

How did you get on with the gear selector switch, i've found a box over here but its the same, no lug to bolt it to.

[coop447]

I ended up just getting another box.
I took it for a spin the other day and gave it some grief, all went good but i have noticed a far bit of power loss.
I did know this could happen but i didnt think i would notice it as much as i have.
They do have taller first and second gear ratios wich wouldnt help much but i think the heavier internals and a bigger torque converter would be draging it down a bit.
No huge big deal tho, im either going to get the smaller pully for my super charger and maybe put the next lower gears in the diff, either one or the other or both, it gets registered on the 4th of jan so i will drive it a bit first.

low gear is still just wheel spin but not as bad but second felt real torquey with the 4l60e box and its lost that fealing now in second, im sure i will be able to pick it back up tho with out to much trobble.

[SirNemesis]

Bumping this thread back up. I'm looking more seriously at this conversion now but that cutout of the chassis rail has me a little worried. I'd be more interested in modifying the box to suit the car than modifying the car to suit the box. Does anyone know or have more pictures of that plug on the side of the box (or ideally, internal pictures)? My theory is it shouldn't be THAT hard to seal up the hold in the casing, run a small extension loom and have the plug section externally mounted somewhere.

[Madmik]

Pretty sure the last thing you want to be doing is anything with the Chassis rail just behind the heavier centre point on the car( or COG area)
Would consider this conversion but waiting to see how others go.
My built 4l60 re-done with 65e internals and some extra bits is coping well.
Little drops of trans oil after a night at the drags, but that could most likely be the old stally (also re-built-repaired by Craigs) on its way out.

[IJ.]

Bumping this thread back up. I'm looking more seriously at this conversion now but that cutout of the chassis rail has me a little worried. I'd be more interested in modifying the box to suit the car than modifying the car to suit the box. Does anyone know or have more pictures of that plug on the side of the box (or ideally, internal pictures)? My theory is it shouldn't be THAT hard to seal up the hold in the casing, run a small extension loom and have the plug section externally mounted somewhere.

Wouldn't be too concerned Nem, it's not actually structural and if it was reboxed wouldn't be any weaker that stock (that mount that's cut is just spot welded to the floor I had to remove it totally one the AWD Monaro conversion I just did)

Just wondering what the guys doing 80 swaps are doing about the RPM limitation of the Trans?

[ZAPPAGU]

Bringing up an oldy!! Doing this conversion into my Nissan. What did you have to reflash the comp with to get the box to work? Ive done some research and the repining and relay seem simple. Interested to see if the box is still going, interested in doing another into my 1 tonner

[coop447]

ok bit of an update on my conversion.
Ive only done about 2000kms and 9 runs down the drags and iv just lost reverse in my box ( over it )
Its had some sort of problem from word go that we cant seem to sort out, sometims when you put it in low gear its like 2 gears are being applied and it doesn't want to accelerate.
It feels like there is a real struggle inside the box like 2 things are fighting agenst each other.
It only does it now and then.
Im not sure if this is the problem that has caused the box to fail or these boxes just aren't as strong as people say they are.
Not sure so now im at the point of either getting this box fixed and possably only getting another 2000 kms out of it or putting a manual in it and being done with it.
This shit can drive a man crazy and broke haha

[Delco]

Programming logic is completely different for a 4L80 to a 4L60 , I dont doubt it is trying to engage gearpacks incorrectly.

When in 1st the 4l60e applied both 1-2 and 2-3 solonoid but in a 4l80e only the 1-2 solonoid is applied
when in 2nd the 4l60e applied only the 2-3 solonoid but the 4l80 applies no solonoids
When in 3rd the 4l60 applies no solonoid but the 4l80 applied the 2-3 solonoid
etc

no amount of repinning can swap this logic around

All the 4L80 conversions I have seen behind grumpy strokers and blown combo's are still going strong .

There are aftermarket controllers for trans only which is also a option to doing the changeover as well as programming the PCM correctly

[coop447]

Yeah not sure what the problem is weather it was a problem in the box or electronics.
I made an adaptor up from a diagram I got from a guy on here that had done his and had no problems but I got the box tuned from guys that had never tuned one before.
the trouble with these boxes in Australia is not enough people are using them so the average gearbox guy or tuner don't know enough about them.
Any way that is an option I am seriously thinking about maybe getting like a tci controller for it but if the problem is in the box and not the electronics its a wast of money.
prob don't have to much choice tho, fu@#n cars don't you just love them lol

[Delco]

Box most likely needs a rebuild now , TCI controller is one option that works well.

Just get the box freshened up then work on your controller options.

Yes the 4l80e wiring is different to the 4l60e , as the program is different ,but no big issue to repin to suit

[redmonaro]

Iam about to do a 4l80e conversion my self just waiting for it to turn up from states, if i can be any assistance look for hunter valley tuning on facebook