L77/L76 Bolt-on Problems Thread

[calais190]

Hey everyone!

This is basically a call out to anyone with a L77/L76 with all the DOD stuff left in place who have gone ahead and done you're normal bolt-on mods.

I'm doing my research have not found much information (yes, I did a search - but if you find other threads, please post them in here) with regards to issues or problems that have arised from leaving the DOD gear in the engine and doing your normal OTR, Full exhaust, Diff gears and tune.

From what I can tell, nothing really seems to go wrong with these cars from just bolt-ons. I'd love to hear from anyone who have had any sort of problems, what they were and how much they cost you to fix.

I currently have an L77 in my Redline SSV which has a 3" KPM catback on it at the moment. I also have a set of 1 7/8 ceramic coated pacemaker headers and a VCM OTR to go on once I get the cash for a tune. Diff gears may be on the cards also, but I need money before I start looking for them.

Thanks in advance!

[One tonner]

Have a look here.

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/ve-holden-commodore-2006/139970-afm-l76-lifter-rattle-when-cold-wtf.html

[boggers007]

Hey everyone!

This is basically a call out to anyone with a L77/L76 with all the DOD stuff left in place who have gone ahead and done you're normal bolt-on mods.

I'm doing my research have not found much information (yes, I did a search - but if you find other threads, please post them in here) with regards to issues or problems that have arised from leaving the DOD gear in the engine and doing your normal OTR, Full exhaust, Diff gears and tune.

From what I can tell, nothing really seems to go wrong with these cars from just bolt-ons. I'd love to hear from anyone who have had any sort of problems, what they were and how much they cost you to fix.

I currently have an L77 in my Redline SSV which has a 3" KPM catback on it at the moment. I also have a set of 1 7/8 ceramic coated pacemaker headers and a VCM OTR to go on once I get the cash for a tune. Diff gears may be on the cards also, but I need money before I start looking for them.

Thanks in advance!

Only problem I had with my L76 with the DOD activated when i had it was that after putting on the catback i could hear the change from 4 to 8 cylinders which wasn't to crash hot when it would change to 4 cylinders and the exhaust sounded bad. After a mafless tune to turn it off then no problems with the rest of the usual bolt ons.

[Northy]

You wont have too many issues with normal run of the mill bolt on's OTR, Exhaust, Diff etc. When you start getting into the other stuff, Brakes, Intake manifolds, cams etc you start to have alot of costly issues come up.

[swingtan]

Basically..... nothing.

Yes, the lifters can be noisy. For me, that's how i tell the oil is getting to the point of needing to be replaced. It seems a good quality semi-synth oil works very well in these lifters. Tuning also seems to make a difference, but I can't elaborate on that as it was just an observation I made when working on mine. I've not done a full back to back test on optimising AFM mode vs disabling it as my L76 dosen't actually do AFM mode. But with the warm weather we have been getting in Melb, I'm doing 13.7l/100km @ an average speed of 48kmh.

Simon.

[calais190]

That's good to hear thus far. The noisy lifters I'm aware of - I don't think that's a problem at all. I've heard a lot of people talking about how the valvetrain on the dod cars are weak. That's what prompted me to ask if anyone has had any dramas when doing the normal bolt-ons.

[swingtan]

I'm not really sure why the say they are "weak" and what constitutes "weak". I certainly wouldn't be running a 0.650" lift cam and revving to 7500 with them though......

[Wonky]

Before my (small) cam went in I did 20,000+km in my L76 with full exhaust, OTR, tune etc with no problems. AFM was turned off early on with the tune but with the full KPM 3" system the transition to/from AFM was barely noticeable - my wife could not pick it at all and she knows more about car stuff than many females. When the cam was done all the AFM gear was removed.

[calais190]

I'm not really sure why the say they are "weak" and what constitutes "weak". I certainly wouldn't be running a 0.650" lift cam and revving to 7500 with them though......

All I'm going by is what i've read in different threads. There's been talk of heavy lifters and valve springs that pack it in when the engines making more power than standard... Here-say at it's finest, hence the intention for creation of this thread is clarification.

[dogsballs]

its not a matter of power, but insurance and constency with the valve train with DOD lifters. when spinning them hard and often, one little kiss of the valve to the piston will make a lot of mess.

when my L76 got tuned with E85 and full twin 3" with 1 7/8 headers, he pulled 270rwkw. my tuner showed my a few pulls with valve float at the top (power curve wavy at peak). it also suffered lots of lifter noise when cold.

after i did the DOD-delete, bumped compression and added a LS2 cam. she revved cleanly and no inconsistency with power curve. zero lifter noise.

i've said this previously, for the sake of a $800 kit (bought from states) and a day or two with spanners, definitely worth doing if you are already pumping $5k+ getting to a decent bolt-on stage.

[dogsballs]

if you've ever played with a DOD lifter, you'll see why many don't have lots of faith in them. not designed for performance use at all, more the opposite.

[calais190]

if you've ever played with a DOD lifter, you'll see why many don't have lots of faith in them. not designed for performance use at all, more the opposite.

Would you recommend not putting the bolt-ons on and possibly purchasing a more aggressive cam along with the DOD delete gear?

[Wonky]

I remember reading on some US forums before I decided to do my DOD delete that a few guys over there were running .600+ lift cams with DOD/AFM lifters and were achieving low 12/high 11 quarters but I wouldn't like to risk it based on other things I read on the collapsible lifters i.e. they weren't recommended for anything over .600. My cam is well under that but being the worry-wart :D I am I didn't want to risk an expensive rebuild. A number of guys with VEs have even had problems with stock non DOD lifters spinning, resulting in valves and pistons kissing on big cams.

[afmss]

ive done 85k on my l76,its got oztrack custom cam still dod,duspeed otr and exhaust,oztrack mafless tune ,ported 102 lsxr manifold made 303 rwkw.doesnt miss a beat.revs to 6500 .dod lifters arent weaker than standard type just heavier and there for require the right spring pressure to ensure they dont bounce.

[dogsballs]

Would you recommend not putting the bolt-ons on and possibly purchasing a more aggressive cam along with the DOD delete gear?
i've squeezed out 298rwkw through a loose auto with essentially a bolt-on L76, plenty enough for low 11 in a VZ set up for drag racing.

the heads on these cars are phenomonal, with the right mods you can make lots of hp. even mild cams can get big hp. as i mentioned earlier if you plan to rev the car, personally i'd do the dod delete (inc upgraded valve springs), be it with a cam or just bolt-on.

[calais190]

ive done 85k on my l76,its got oztrack custom cam still dod,duspeed otr and exhaust,oztrack mafless tune ,ported 102 lsxr manifold made 303 rwkw.doesnt miss a beat.revs to 6500 .dod lifters arent weaker than standard type just heavier and there for require the right spring pressure to ensure they dont bounce.

Are you running the factory valve springs?

Thanks for the information guys. The way I drive the car, I don't see above 5000 very often so it seems it might be ok to leave the DOD with bolt-ons until cam plans in the distant future.

[afmss]

[QUOTE=calais190;1959709]Are you running the factory valve springs?

no i upgraded the springs when the cam went in,ive got over 60k with the cam ,no lifter noise what so ever.another myth busted;)

[dogsballs]

Are you running the factory valve springs?

Thanks for the information guys. The way I drive the car, I don't see above 5000 very often so it seems it might be ok to leave the DOD with bolt-ons until cam plans in the distant future.
yeah, i wouldn't do the dod delete then a cam 6mths later. both at same time.

[calais190]

yeah, i wouldn't do the dod delete then a cam 6mths later. both at same time.

So, would you just do extractors, OTR, cam, dod delete and tune all together?

[Wonky]

You'd save a small amount of duplicate labour that way given the heads and therefore extractors have to come off to do the DOD delete, but it would be pretty negligible probably. I'd prefer to have a nice sounding exhaust fitted before saving for however long for the cam.

The only thing I wouldn't do is get a tune before getting it cammed or you'll most likely end up having to pay for two tunes. :(

[dogsballs]

So, would you just do extractors, OTR, cam, dod delete and tune all together?i did mine in stages (see earlier post), as i was strapped for cash and bought some stuff 2nd hand when it popped up. my tuner was good and only charged me a little extra, on top of initial tune, for tweaks, except when he retuned the auto when i did dod delete, stall and diff gears.

up to you really. depends on what you want to do with the car and the extent of modifications. some stuff you can do here and there, some better to do all at once. if you do everything at once, greater chance a workshop will give you a better deal. however if you're not happy with workshop, then you're sorta stuck. no straight forward answer.

realistically you could get 260-270rwkw out these engines with bolt-ons, maybe bit more with E85 or if its manualle!

[calais190]

You'd save a small amount of duplicate labour that way given the heads and therefore extractors have to come off to do the DOD delete, but it would be pretty negligible probably. I'd prefer to have a nice sounding exhaust fitted before saving for however long for the cam.

The only thing I wouldn't do is get a tune before getting it cammed or you'll most likely end up having to pay for two tunes. :(

That's true. My initial intentions were to do all the bolt ons and get a tune done. Getting the cam done is on my list, but I wasn't planning on doing it for a while. Once I heard people talking about the DOD equipped cars not going so well with the extra power, I thought it would be best to see everyone elses experiences. It seems more people are telling me something 'could' happen, but no one has yet had actual problems with leaving the DOD gear on.


i did mine in stages (see earlier post), as i was strapped for cash and bought some stuff 2nd hand when it popped up. my tuner was good and only charged me a little extra, on top of initial tune, for tweaks, except when he retuned the auto when i did dod delete, stall and diff gears.

up to you really. depends on what you want to do with the car and the extent of modifications. some stuff you can do here and there, some better to do all at once. if you do everything at once, greater chance a workshop will give you a better deal. however if you're not happy with workshop, then you're sorta stuck. no straight forward answer.

realistically you could get 260-270rwkw out these engines with bolt-ons, maybe bit more with E85 or if its manualle!

I'd be happy with that type of power... And I do run the car on e85 every now and then. I just don't want to damage something and have no warranty to rely on, especially if the DOD parts will mean there is a higher chance of something going wrong.

I guess the workshop could do a safe tune to prevent anything fatal happening to the engine?

[dogsballs]

any reputable tuner will give you a tune that is safe, i wouldn't worry in that aspect. They will be able to extract more hp if you stick to a given fuel ie E85.

DOD delete as mentioned is just insurance and makes the car work to its potential, which is what most of us car modifiers are chasing.

i'd go for a drive with friends (or at a cruise or meet) who have these mods and see what type of power you are happy to handle etc. you might be happy with tune and OTR.

[calais190]

I already have a set of pacemaker 4>1s and mathcing cats to go on. Power isn't the issue, longevity and keeping service costs down is my concern. I just don't want things to break by adding bolt ons and leaving the dod gear in place.

From what I can tell, as long as I dont sit on the limiter often, it should be fine. Seeing I don't track my car or drive like a hero, I think I might be ok.

[boggers007]

I already have a set of pacemaker 4>1s and mathcing cats to go on. Power isn't the issue, longevity and keeping service costs down is my concern. I just don't want things to break by adding bolt ons and leaving the dod gear in place.

From what I can tell, as long as I dont sit on the limiter often, it should be fine. Seeing I don't track my car or drive like a hero, I think I might be ok.

I did 30,000k's in my car with the OTR, Mafless Tune and Full Exhaust and no problems with the stuff.

[brasher]

mines been fine, see's the odd redline action but not too often.

Had a bit of lifter noise but was the day before I was doing the oil so was a sign from above to do it anyway.

I wouldn't really worry about it with just bolt on mods. Just keep the servicing frequent and she'll be apples.

[calais190]

Thanks for the info guys! Good to hear many happy modders and so far no unhappy ones.

[Wonky]

From what I can tell, as long as I dont sit on the limiter often, it should be fine. Seeing I don't track my car or drive like a hero, I think I might be ok.

:yup: Mine had close to 20 runs at the 2010 Shootout with bolt ons and 260rwkw. Consistently in the 12s with best of 12.83, all with DOD lifters etc.. Never a hint of a problem there or later.

[calais190]

:yup: Mine had close to 20 runs at the 2010 Shootout with bolt ons and 260rwkw. Consistently in the 12s with best of 12.83, all with DOD lifters etc.. Never a hint of a problem there or later.

Awesome! :) and I figure my L77 must have decent parts after 13000kms and no lifter tick (original oil). Speaking of which, would running royal purple 10w 40 or castrol edge 10w 60 be better protection for the valvetrain parts once the bolt ons are done?

[Wonky]

I've been running Edge 10w60 since (from memory) a bit before then but RP is meant to be the duck's guts so if you can run to that it's probably even better.

[FAT-LSX]

So really I should be able to swap my l76 cam for an ls2 one and change nothing else but the tune and not rev it past 6k?

[dogsballs]

i've put a ls2 cam in my auto L76 when i did my dod delete, combined with a bit of head shaving and e85, pumping out 298rwkw (through loose and now deceased convertor)