Caliper bolts fell out on WH Statesman!

[Drewie]

Question should the caliper bolts be renewed when changing pads and rotors as per the GM manual or should loctite be used on the old bolts.
My nephew had a close call in his WH Statesman, had new pads and rotors put on by a small workshop close to his home a couple of months back, driving along at about 60 kph last week and the right hand drivers side caliper came off and spun inside the rim and locked it up and skidded him across the opposite side of the road, damaged the rim, damaged the hub and a few other items, had to have it towed and fixed by another workshop, new hub, wheel and a few other bits were needed. He doesn't think they used any loctite or similar when the did the brake work initially. The shop that did the work initially paid for the repair but it could have been far worse had he hit some other car. So should these bolts be replaced or is loctite the go?

[cashie]

The workshop manual quotes to replace these bolts as they are "Torque To Yield".
I and others have got away with reusing bolts and using locktite.
But, for the price of 4 bolts I'd certainly consider changing them.

[surfwagon]

Pads from Holden used to come with bolts, but don't know about these days.
I have reused my caliper bolts with new loctitie on every car I have owned and never had a problem with them coming undone.
I suppose there could always be a first time but I will most probably keep reusing them.



__________________________________________________ ___________
Senator http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=121025
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/surfwagon/senatorbarbadosblue.jpg

[vyls1wa]

a couple of weeks ago i posted a thread about this very same thing. I had rotors and pads done some time ago by a shop, and developed a shudder under braking but was random and sometimes never happened, while cleaning the car one morning it just clicked to me to check the bolts, sure enough, one bolt was completely loose on the drivers right side, very lucky find, since then shudder has pretty much completely gone. going to machine the rotors and will have all bolts replaced when done.

[peter b]

The caliper bolts if done up properly wont come undone. I have an extremely high suspicion that said small shop forgot to tighten these bolts and they came undone.
They wont just undo themselves regardless of if loctite is used or not if they were tight they wouldn't have come loose and come off

[gaz05]

The caliper bolts if done up properly wont come undone. I have an extremely high suspicion that said small shop forgot to tighten these bolts and they came undone.
They wont just undo themselves regardless of if loctite is used or not if they were tight they wouldn't have come loose and come off

You are absolutely 100% correct.

[duke5700]

I re-used them.. multiple times. I didn't realise they are torque to yeild bolts. I should of known better. In saying that though, I do use locktite on the bolts when they go back in.

Funnily enough though, my car from factory had one of the front caliper bolts threaded. I ended up having to tap in a new thread and use a helicoil. Been like that for 8 or 9 years now. It has only had 2 pad changes though in that time.

[Steele304VS]

The caliper bolts if done up properly wont come undone. I have an extremely high suspicion that said small shop forgot to tighten these bolts and they came undone.
They wont just undo themselves regardless of if loctite is used or not if they were tight they wouldn't have come loose and come off


+1 on this...

I've had the same problem, didn't do them up tight enough the first time, then tightened again was fine until i sold the car.

[tsute]

The caliper bolts if done up properly wont come undone. I have an extremely high suspicion that said small shop forgot to tighten these bolts and they came undone.
They wont just undo themselves regardless of if loctite is used or not if they were tight they wouldn't have come loose and come off

Another one with you here, with 20 years pushing spanners both with Holden dealerships and private work shops I have never had a caliper bolt come loose. Some mechanics are worth more that you might think. When you find a good one stick with him.

[walesy]

must be a WH thing, ive had this happen to me twice now! the first time it was only the top bolt so i limped it home to replace the bolts WITH locktite, if i hit the brakes at low speed the caliper would flip forward, jamming on the rotor and locking the front wheel...

second time done the same thing on the NSW C4C8 right before we got to the destination, so i took the bolt out from the bottom and put it in the top to try limp it home (from sydney to nowra :-S ) about 5 mins after i left i hit the brakes at the lights and the remaining bolt snapped,

lucky i had my old manual line lockers still in the glovebox, locked off the line and removed the front caliper and limped the car 3 hrs home ( VERY carefully )with 3 brakes...

replaced the stub axel and caliper bolts with locktite and havnt had a problem since

[LS1-5.7]

Drewie, this is a no-brainer as any reputable workshop would make sure the calliper slide bolts are done up using loctite and torqued to an experienced "feel" torque setting.They really had no choice but to come to the party with all the damage caused as a result of this negligent and shoddy work. If they'd argued at all I simply would have reminded them of the lawsuit that could have eventuated should your unwanted redirection into oncoming traffic have resulted in the serious injury or death of the vehicle's operator :cussing: I'd also be curious to see if they actually cleaned and lubed your slide pins as required......

The calliper slide bolts can be re-used if fitted with loctite and actually tightened in the first place. They're not head bolts which stretch when originally fitted and can be re-used many times unless snapped due to heavy handedness.

Maybe the first year apprentice should be relegated back to oil changes only !

If you can't guarantee the job then don't take it on ... simple !

Maybe it's time to look for someone you can put a bit more trust in ... just a thought :)

[Ron SS]

I cannot believe some of these comments!! The VE runs torque to yield bolts for the calipers. This means that when torqued as per the manual, they can be in the plastic range of the bolt, hence will not spring back to their original length. When tightened up again, they go further into the plastic range and eventually cannot respond to temp change and can shear or come loose. The cost of new bolts is insignificant to the damage done reusing these bolts.

Older mechanics may well have reused bolts for 20 years, that is because torque to yield is really a new thing and allows the bolt to be tightened to a higher torque provided they are only used once. Using loctite and thinking you are doing the correct thing is just plain silly. My advice is that if your "mechanic" is reusing these bolts (front strut to hub bolts are also torque to yield too), then go to another shop.

Torque for front caliper to knuckle bolts is 1st pass = 60NM (44 ft-lbs), then 120 degrees

Torque for rear caliper to knuckle bolts is 110 NM (81 ft-lbs)

It is not necessary to remove the caliper to change pads. The lower small pin bolt can be removed to swivel the outer caliper section up to remove the pads and Holden say to replace that small bolt too.

[peter b]

I cannot believe some of these comments!! The VE runs torque to yield bolts for the calipers. This means that when torqued as per the manual, they can be in the plastic range of the bolt, hence will not spring back to their original length. When tightened up again, they go further into the plastic range and eventually cannot respond to temp change and can shear or come loose. The cost of new bolts is insignificant to the damage done reusing these bolts.

Older mechanics may well have reused bolts for 20 years, that is because torque to yield is really a new thing and allows the bolt to be tightened to a higher torque provided they are only used once. Using loctite and thinking you are doing the correct thing is just plain silly. My advice is that if your "mechanic" is reusing these bolts (front strut to hub bolts are also torque to yield too), then go to another shop.

Torque for front caliper to knuckle bolts is 1st pass = 60NM (44 ft-lbs), then 120 degrees

Torque for rear caliper to knuckle bolts is 110 NM (81 ft-lbs)

It is not necessary to remove the caliper to change pads. The lower small pin bolt can be removed to swivel the outer caliper section up to remove the pads and Holden say to replace that small bolt too.


Whether it is torque to yield or not doesnt actually matter these bolts dont just turn to crap once used.
The bolts can be reused as long as they are tightened ANY BOLT IF NOT TIGHTENED PROPERLY WILL COME LOOSE is it that hard to understand if the bolt was tightened then this wouldnt have happened end of story.

[peter b]

I cannot believe some of these comments!! The VE runs torque to yield bolts for the calipers. This means that when torqued as per the manual, they can be in the plastic range of the bolt, hence will not spring back to their original length. When tightened up again, they go further into the plastic range and eventually cannot respond to temp change and can shear or come loose. The cost of new bolts is insignificant to the damage done reusing these bolts.

Older mechanics may well have reused bolts for 20 years, that is because torque to yield is really a new thing and allows the bolt to be tightened to a higher torque provided they are only used once. Using loctite and thinking you are doing the correct thing is just plain silly. My advice is that if your "mechanic" is reusing these bolts (front strut to hub bolts are also torque to yield too), then go to another shop.

Torque for front caliper to knuckle bolts is 1st pass = 60NM (44 ft-lbs), then 120 degrees

Torque for rear caliper to knuckle bolts is 110 NM (81 ft-lbs)

It is not necessary to remove the caliper to change pads. The lower small pin bolt can be removed to swivel the outer caliper section up to remove the pads and Holden say to replace that small bolt too.

I am going to pick on your last comment as well in just removing bottom bolt to change just the pads is not the best way as the reason the main bolts get removed is to resurface or replace the discs.
Replacing pads without machining or replacing discs is very much a no no these are two surfaces that mate together so putting new pads with old discs or old surface disc wont stop the car as effectively. You pick on people for reusing bolts well id rather reuse the bolts than just pad slap any vehicle

[surfwagon]

I cannot believe some of these comments!! The VE runs torque to yield bolts for the calipers. This means that when torqued as per the manual, they can be in the plastic range of the bolt, hence will not spring back to their original length. When tightened up again, they go further into the plastic range and eventually cannot respond to temp change and can shear or come loose. The cost of new bolts is insignificant to the damage done reusing these bolts.

Older mechanics may well have reused bolts for 20 years, that is because torque to yield is really a new thing and allows the bolt to be tightened to a higher torque provided they are only used once. Using loctite and thinking you are doing the correct thing is just plain silly. My advice is that if your "mechanic" is reusing these bolts (front strut to hub bolts are also torque to yield too), then go to another shop.

Torque for front caliper to knuckle bolts is 1st pass = 60NM (44 ft-lbs), then 120 degrees

Torque for rear caliper to knuckle bolts is 110 NM (81 ft-lbs)

It is not necessary to remove the caliper to change pads. The lower small pin bolt can be removed to swivel the outer caliper section up to remove the pads and Holden say to replace that small bolt too.

Another thing to remember is the OP has a WH statesman "not" a VE.


__________________________________________________ ___________________________
senator http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=121025
dyno http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=137278
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/surfwagon/senatorbarbadosblue.jpg