2011 Formula 1 - Part 2 [Archive] - Australian LS1 and Holden Forums

Martin_D

26-11-2011, 06:29 AM

LuisS

26-11-2011, 02:20 PM

Looking back through this thread -

"Well guys we have another Webber basher in Martin_D have we. We did have one other basher (mgygto or whatever his name was) who would always say Webber has no talent, will never win a GP bla bla bla. Have not heard a great deal from him here since Webbers 2010 efforts. Chewed up and spat out by Alonso, Button etc.......mmmm, lets see how many former world champions he PASSED during that epic race."

Its been a shame to see Webbers performance this year. No one gets any joy from seeing him not win, however its probably time to face the facts of 2011. There was nothing wrong with Webbers car, Seb operates on a totally different and much higher level as proved by his crushing performances this year. This complete domination has mashed Webbers head mentally, he can still obviously drive but the massive gap in talent between himself and Vettel is devastating. Its the biggest driver talent chasm in the field by a mile.

But you cant have a team with two identical cars, one wins a dozen races for the season, the other doesnt win a cracker. If he doesnt get one done in the first couple of races next year there is no doubt Redbull will axe him as they should - they must let someone drive the car that can do it justice :eek:

Probably not much different to Ferrari in 2004 , Rubens was at the top of his game but totally overshadowed by Schuey.....:wave:

seldo

26-11-2011, 03:32 PM

Looking back through this thread -

"Well guys we have another Webber basher in Martin_D have we. We did have one other basher (mgygto or whatever his name was) who would always say Webber has no talent, will never win a GP bla bla bla. Have not heard a great deal from him here since Webbers 2010 efforts. Chewed up and spat out by Alonso, Button etc.......mmmm, lets see how many former world champions he PASSED during that epic race."

Its been a shame to see Webbers performance this year. No one gets any joy from seeing him not win, however its probably time to face the facts of 2011. There was nothing wrong with Webbers car, Seb operates on a totally different and much higher level as proved by his crushing performances this year. This complete domination has mashed Webbers head mentally, he can still obviously drive but the massive gap in talent between himself and Vettel is devastating. Its the biggest driver talent chasm in the field by a mile.

But you cant have a team with two identical cars, one wins a dozen races for the season, the other doesnt win a cracker. If he doesnt get one done in the first couple of races next year there is no doubt Redbull will axe him as they should - they must let someone drive the car that can do it justice :eek:And Webber's getting another thrashing in Brazil atm. After practise 2 Hamilton's fastest by a massive .167 of a sec, Vettel 2nd and Webber is a disgraceful 28 1/1000s of a sec slower after being fastest in P1....:eek:
And of course Webber has had 6 fastest laps this year to Vettel's and Hamilton's 3 ea, so he obviously can't drive to save himself....
As I stated in an earlier post, Webber was recently out of contract and Red Bull think he's so incompetent that they have just re-signed him for another year... But what the hell would they know...? Gooses!
There's no doubting Vettel's amazing ability, but even Red Bull understand that only one of their cars can win at a time...

Martin_D

26-11-2011, 05:11 PM

Webber could indeed win this one
Lets hope!

planetdavo

27-11-2011, 12:32 PM

Looking back through this thread -

"Well guys we have another Webber basher in Martin_D have we. We did have one other basher (mgygto or whatever his name was) who would always say Webber has no talent, will never win a GP bla bla bla. Have not heard a great deal from him here since Webbers 2010 efforts. Chewed up and spat out by Alonso, Button etc.......mmmm, lets see how many former world champions he PASSED during that epic race."

Its been a shame to see Webbers performance this year. No one gets any joy from seeing him not win, however its probably time to face the facts of 2011. There was nothing wrong with Webbers car, Seb operates on a totally different and much higher level as proved by his crushing performances this year. This complete domination has mashed Webbers head mentally, he can still obviously drive but the massive gap in talent between himself and Vettel is devastating. Its the biggest driver talent chasm in the field by a mile.

But you cant have a team with two identical cars, one wins a dozen races for the season, the other doesnt win a cracker. If he doesnt get one done in the first couple of races next year there is no doubt Redbull will axe him as they should - they must let someone drive the car that can do it justice :eek:

Well, after you mercilessly slagged Webber off all year and pumped Ricciardo's chest, Ricci qualified behind his teammate again. I'm not so sure he'll be in F1 next year somehow. Maybe after next year, but hopefully not yet another "next big thing" missing his chance.
Haven't heard you slagging him off though...:rolleyes:
Next year we'll know with Mark. I reckon Webber's head is in a good spot now, as he realises it was a particular set of circumstances that led to this years "slump", rather than him just losing his mojo. :yup:
We all know what those circumstances were, but I wont repeat them yet again, as that Tuna fella might start up all over again...;)

Martin_D

27-11-2011, 01:13 PM

We all know what those circumstances were, but I wont repeat them yet again, as that Tuna fella might start up all over again...;)

Let me refresh for you - Webbers team mate is so much better than him it did his head in.
Word on some of the F1 forums is that RedBull have done a deal where Vettel will move aside and let Webber past in this race so he can win one for the year. Would this happen to be true it shows just what a great driver and fantastic team man young Vettel is. This is Webbers last roll of the dice then, win it or bin it, but try not to run into your team mate (again) :lol:

Not a good idea to pick on Ricciardo in his first season. Let him develop some before writing him off. He looks to be a sensible young driver

planetdavo

27-11-2011, 04:41 PM

Let me refresh for you - Webbers team mate is so much better than him it did his head in.
Word on some of the F1 forums is that RedBull have done a deal where Vettel will move aside and let Webber past in this race so he can win one for the year. Would this happen to be true it shows just what a great driver and fantastic team man young Vettel is. This is Webbers last roll of the dice then, win it or bin it, but try not to run into your team mate (again) :lol:

Not a good idea to pick on Ricciardo in his first season. Let him develop some before writing him off. He looks to be a sensible young driver

Vettel instantly suited this years blown diffuser rocket and very tricky tyres instantly, in an era of no testing to catch up. Blind freddie can see that one.
Oh, and as for Ricciardo, one might suggest he's not quite well known enough yet to suffer the effects of internet tall poppy syndrome...:cool:

Martin_D

27-11-2011, 04:48 PM

Like I said first year for the guy, he's showing some good signs and hopefully he can be another Aussie to win races for us :)

VX2VESS

27-11-2011, 09:02 PM

RB actually continue to frig Webber around.. Instead of trying to get him to win, they are using practice etc to test 2012 bit and pieces on his car.

HazzaHSV

27-11-2011, 10:04 PM

There was nothing wrong with Webbers car, Seb operates on a totally different and much higher level as proved by his crushing performances this year. This complete domination has mashed Webbers head mentally, he can still obviously drive but the massive gap in talent between himself and Vettel is devastating. Its the biggest driver talent chasm in the field by a mile.Here you go again. You sound much more convincing when you just stick to the facts, instead of preaching your silly BS into things. I agree with some of what you say, but the other 80%? :weirdo: Seb operates on a totally different level? Umm no. He simply operates at his maximum more often than anyone else this year. Webber's best can match or get within a tenth of Seb's at times, he has proved that beyond doubt. How is that a massive gap? And if you take into account for Webber's 10kg weight disadvantage of not being able to put the weight in tactical area's, it would make up for some of that. So a totally different level, no. More often Vettle is at his best level, yes. Mashing Webber's head mentally, no chance. Webber mashes his own head when he under achieves, nothing more, nothing less. Massive gap in talent, ridiculous. Gap in consistancy, sure. Gap in driving style for tyres/blown diffusers, sure. Biggest driver chasm in the field, wrong again, that would easily go to Massa IMO.

And regarding them ditching Webber after 3 races next year if he doesn't win a race, pure lunacy. How can you say that when for all we know, McLaren or Ferrari could surge ahead with the new designs (no blown diffusers) and both Vettel and Webber may not win in the first 3 races. What then? Sack Webber just cause? Yeah sure.

HazzaHSV

27-11-2011, 10:12 PM

Let me refresh for you - Webbers team mate is so much better than him it did his head in.Wrong. Everyone knows its the tyres that's done his head in and this is backed up by engineers, commentators, and more importantly the actual empirical data.

Word on some of the F1 forums is that RedBull have done a deal where Vettel will move aside and let Webber past in this race so he can win one for the year. Would this happen to be true it shows just what a great driver and fantastic team man young Vettel is. This is Webbers last roll of the dice then, win it or bin it, but try not to run into your team mate (again) :lol:Yeah great team player. We saw that in true colours last year in Turkey. He would only ever consider being a team player, when he has nothing to lose, similar to a hypothetical situation, otherwise forget it. He doesn't even listen to his team manager when he asks Vettle not to try and set fastest laps on the last lap when he has a big lead, yeah big team player. And to be honest, I agree with Vettle, I wouldn't be a team player either. And with regards to running out of talent running into each other, I believe Vettle wins that ledger at the moment too. :lol:

seldo

28-11-2011, 03:50 AM

Spoiler...

That worn-out, no-talent, has-been old hack Webber did ok at Brazil with a win and his 7th fastest lap for the season.... Pity he can't drive and it was just sheer luck... ;)
Vettel 2nd (with gear-box problems) and Button 3rd.

Martin_D

28-11-2011, 05:46 AM

Lets get out the book of excuses....Yes its not fair it would seem that Red Bull have deliberately sabotaged Vettels car for the last two rounds now as this could be the only excuse for him not winning, Also Pirelli sabotaged the tyres last round, and also Vettel didnt get the best parts to try for this weekend with Webber getting all the 2012 bits, and also one time at band camp.....

Seriously though great result for Webber. Vettel backed out of the car and let him past, Hamilton broke, the rest werent on the job. This is the kind of result EXPECTED from the guy driving the best car in the field, and for the first time this year, Webber delivered :)

This will more than likely raise his stocks enough at Red Bull to ensure this thread stays active for next season :cool:

fishla

28-11-2011, 06:01 AM

Webber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

VX2VESS

28-11-2011, 09:51 AM

I didn't want to know but heard it on the News. Wasn't going to sit up all night to watch it live. But did think about it.

Good he won can't wait to see the race.

Gearbox box probs for Vettel, when i heard that I wonder if it was real or not. funny how he was able to hold off anyone else coming through. Wait and see the race I guess.

Thing with the RB cars this year it was be on pole for a chance to win, anything else you didn't have much chance barring accidents and pit strategy. And Seb was just better at doing this, the few times he was behind he also struggled like Webber. RB needed clean air

Martin_D

28-11-2011, 10:48 AM

Gearbox box probs for Vettel, when i heard that I wonder if it was real or not. funny how he was able to hold off anyone else coming through. Wait and see the race I guess.

Thats a hard one to work out. Vettels engineer was constantly on the radio telling him to short shift second, then third. This happened about four times over the race with calls like 'Seb we have a SERIOUS gearbox problem, shift on red' (which is about 2000rpm down). Then RB made him wind the engine mode right down where Vettel responded with 'If I do this Im going to fall behind!' Vettel at one stage after this matched lap times with Webber, but then towards the end of the race slowed right down, holding Alonso and letting Button get to within about 7-8 seconds or so.

Vettel was relaxed enough to have conversations on the radio like 'I feel like Senna in 1991' when his gbox stuffed up but the difference was Senna still went on for a victory. Its hard to tell if this was all staged or not, but Vettel was clearly frustrated. Not being a conspiracy theorist I dont reckon it was, the gbox issue was a genuine one and Vettel would have gone for the win if he could have :teach:

Webber is a force to be reckoned with at Interlagos.

Delft Maloo

28-11-2011, 11:30 AM

Up until red bull told web to slow down webber was matching him and they were both running away from the field together, i was a little suss about the gearbox issue at first but it seemed genuine enough with the amount of concern that kept being radio'd. It was great drive from webber and it also shows seb's talent to nurse a car and still be faster than the rest of the field besides your team mate, button once again had an awesome drive and really show'd his true talent.
Vettel may have dominated the year but i reckon the best racer was button by a long shot.

seldo

28-11-2011, 11:30 AM

Thats a hard one to work out. Vettels engineer was constantly on the radio telling him to short shift second, then third. This happened about four times over the race with calls like 'Seb we have a SERIOUS gearbox problem, shift on red' (which is about 2000rpm down). Then RB made him wind the engine mode right down where Vettel responded with 'If I do this Im going to fall behind!' Vettel at one stage after this matched lap times with Webber, but then towards the end of the race slowed right down, holding Alonso and letting Button get to within about 7-8 seconds or so.

Vettel was relaxed enough to have conversations on the radio like 'I feel like Senna in 1991' when his gbox stuffed up but the difference was Senna still went on for a victory. Its hard to tell if this was all staged or not, but Vettel was clearly frustrated. Not being a conspiracy theorist I dont reckon it was, the gbox issue was a genuine one and Vettel would have gone for the win if he could have :teach:

Webber is a force to be reckoned with at Interlagos.
All this....From the mouth of a Webber knocker? :lol:
Have to agree though Martin - I do think it was a genuine problem, but as always, Vettel was still doing some amazing times even when he was short-shifting etc.
At one stage Horner came on the radio and said something to the effect of "if you don't slow down and do what you're told, you simply won't finish".
I also thought Button drove brilliantly and Schumie, as always, made one of his crash-through-or-crash passing moves. Even though the stewards awarded a drive-through against Senna I think he was a bit hard done-by, as Schumie still thinks he's a hero, not a has-been, and expects everyone to jump off the island when they see him coming. I reckon Schumie has probably the highest contact/pass ratios of them all.

Martin_D

28-11-2011, 12:24 PM

Vettel may have dominated the year but i reckon the best racer was button by a long shot.

Kind of agree with that. Vettel simply wasnt challenged enough, but when he was it was Button :)

maloo_

28-11-2011, 02:12 PM

Merry Xmas Mark love Seb and Redbull S##T

hoon69

28-11-2011, 06:09 PM

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/11/28/1226208/056503-red-bull-brazil-auto-racing-f1-gp.jpg
come on Mark tell us what you really think/feel :serenade:

Least he went out on a good note and just claimed 3rd for 2011
all thats missing mark is the No1
finished 2nd and 3rd now,time ot move up a position mate.

AndyP

28-11-2011, 10:46 PM

Webber could indeed win this one
Lets hope!

Word on some of the F1 forums is that RedBull have done a deal where Vettel will move aside and let Webber past in this race so he can win one for the year.

Gotta give Martin his dues... Gets it right more often then not..
I've been a Webber fan since he was racing Formula 3's in the late 90's, and wanted nothing more then for him to win a championship. But just watching him driving alongside Vettel, who to me, is obviously in a different league altogether!

VX2VESS

29-11-2011, 09:00 AM

Thats a hard one to work out. Vettels engineer was constantly on the radio telling him to short shift second, then third. This happened about four times over the race with calls like 'Seb we have a SERIOUS gearbox problem, shift on red' (which is about 2000rpm down). Then RB made him wind the engine mode right down where Vettel responded with 'If I do this Im going to fall behind!' Vettel at one stage after this matched lap times with Webber, but then towards the end of the race slowed right down, holding Alonso and letting Button get to within about 7-8 seconds or so.

Vettel was relaxed enough to have conversations on the radio like 'I feel like Senna in 1991' when his gbox stuffed up but the difference was Senna still went on for a victory. Its hard to tell if this was all staged or not, but Vettel was clearly frustrated. Not being a conspiracy theorist I dont reckon it was, the gbox issue was a genuine one and Vettel would have gone for the win if he could have :teach:

Webber is a force to be reckoned with at Interlagos.

How did that box make it to the end of the race when it had issue so early on. While others who had similar gearbox issues later on dropped out.

Even with short shifting etc etc to nurse the box he was very fast for 70 laps on it.

any way good to see Mark win, the others couldn't keep up with either of them this time. which is a little strange considering they were all getting so close to RB before this race. could not even catch Vettels busted arsed car lol

Martin_D

29-11-2011, 09:27 AM

How did that box make it to the end of the race when it had issue so early on. While others who had similar gearbox issues later on dropped out.

Apparently the Redbull transmission developed an oil leak which reduced the fluid capacity and pushed the transmission temperature up. Short shifting the transmission reduces the oils cooling duty cycle, as does winding down the engine power mode. No doubt the temperature was in the danger zone, but obviously the metallurgy was up to it.

Hamiltons issue was different. His was a shift synchronisation type problem that led to failed shift timing (or something similar) before grabbing a box full of neutrals once the transmission lost its learned position. The way it instantly stopped and refused to select gear without schrapnel pouring out the back would point to this kind of failure. Or at least thats what the experts would have us believe :)

LuisS

29-11-2011, 09:44 AM

You see , torque management FTW :deal:

Martin_D

29-11-2011, 10:20 AM

Exactly right, good enough for 2nd..... :lol:

seldo

29-11-2011, 04:26 PM

You see , torque management FTW :deal:Good to see he wasn't just all torque.......;)
Sorry...

Martin_D

29-11-2011, 04:27 PM

Now if that were Webber with the gearbox problem having to let Vettel past could you imagine the spittle flecked keyboard warriors charging to the defence of poor Mark as the team deliberately made his car fail because he's the underdog Aussie?

This kind of shit happens to everyone in the field :)

seldo

29-11-2011, 10:06 PM

Apparently the Redbull transmission developed an oil leak which reduced the fluid capacity and pushed the transmission temperature up. Short shifting the transmission reduces the oils cooling duty cycle, as does winding down the engine power mode. No doubt the temperature was in the danger zone, but obviously the metallurgy was up to it.

Hamiltons issue was different. His was a shift synchronisation type problem that led to failed shift timing (or something similar) before grabbing a box full of neutrals once the transmission lost its learned position. The way it instantly stopped and refused to select gear without schrapnel pouring out the back would point to this kind of failure. Or at least thats what the experts would have us believe :)I saw somewhere that it was a new trannie and had already had an all-nighter rebuild prior to the race, and there was an opinion that they would have been better-off to use the previous old trannie.

maloo_

30-11-2011, 12:24 PM

The Iceman is back.

[TWIGGA]

30-11-2011, 12:51 PM

The Iceman is back.

Yep! Lotus!

BlownVR

30-11-2011, 02:17 PM

Interesting read here about the top 5 drivers, comparing how they have each adapted to the Pirelli tyre this year. The final paragraph suggests that the blown diffusers come into it too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/15926791.stm

bok1

30-11-2011, 07:26 PM

After weeks of speculation Renault confirmed on Tuesday that Kimi Raikkonen will make a comeback to race for the team in 2012. Raikkonen, who left the sport at the end of 2009 to pursue a rallying career, has signed a two-year agreement with the team.

“I’m delighted to be coming back to Formula One after a two-year break, and I’m grateful to Lotus Renault GP for offering me this opportunity,” said the 32 year-old. “My time in the World Rally Championship has been a useful stage in my career as a driver, but I can’t deny the fact that my hunger for F1 has recently become overwhelming.

“It was an easy choice to return with Lotus Renault GP as I have been impressed by the scope of the team’s ambition. Now I’m looking forward to playing an important role in pushing the team to the very front of the grid.”

The Finn made his Formula One debut back in 2001 with Sauber. He then spent five seasons with McLaren, from 2002 to 2006, winning nine Grands Prix and twice finishing runner-up in the drivers’ championship. He moved to Ferrari for 2007, taking the title that year, but was overshadowed by team mate Felipe Massa the following season.

He agreed to leave Ferrari at the end of the 2009 season despite having a year of his contract still to run, in order to make way for Fernando Alonso. Over the last two seasons he has competed in the World Rally Championship.

Gerard Lopez, chairman of Genii Capital, commented: “All year long, we kept saying that our team was at the start of a brand new cycle. Backstage we’ve been working hard to build the foundations of a successful structure and to ensure that we would soon be able to fight at the highest level.

“Kimi’s decision to come back to Formula One with us is the first step of several announcements which should turn us into an even more serious contender in the future. Of course, we are all looking forward to working with a world champion. On behalf of our staff, I’d like to welcome Kimi to Enstone, a setting that has always been known for its human approach to Formula One.”

Renault ended the 2011 season fifth in the constructors' standings, four points ahead of sixth-placed squad Force India. The team will be renamed Lotus from next season.

from f1 website.

phil

Delft Maloo

15-12-2011, 08:41 AM

The best breaking news in f1 for a long time for us aussies, Daniel Ricciardo gets a full time seat with torro rosso alongside Jean-Eric Vergne.
story here from the official f1 site.http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/12/12894.html
and from the Scuderia Torro Rosso website. http://www.scuderiatororosso.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/Scuderia-Toro-Rosso-announces-all-new-driver-line-021243137300196

Martin_D

15-12-2011, 11:28 AM

Great news! :)

maloo_

15-12-2011, 03:17 PM

VX2VESS

03-06-2012, 08:23 PM

Lol its a slot not a hole.

Red Bull (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_team_145/Red-Bull/latest-articles.aspx) will have to alter the floor of its car after it was declared that its existing setup was in contravention of regulations.
The defending world champions will have to make the changes ahead of the Canadian Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Canada/grand_prix_profile.aspx) after rival teams had urged the FIA to look into the matter following which a directive was passed across to all participants.
Red Bull was running with a floor with slots in it, located just ahead of the rear wheels, despite rules stating that the part should not consist of any holes.
The British team had argued that it was a slot by definition and not a hole as stated in the technical regulations, but rivals debated it broke the law nevertheless and were threatening to lodge a protest just a few hours before the Monaco Grand Prix (http://www.f1pulse.com/grands_prix/Monaco/grand_prix_profile.aspx).
Mark Webber (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_510/Mark-Webber/latest-articles.aspx) went on to win the race at Monte Carlo (http://www.f1pulse.com/circuits/Monte_Carlo/3D43/circuits_profile.aspx) with teammate Sebastian Vettel (http://www.f1pulse.com/news_driver_698/Sebastian-Vettel/latest-articles.aspx) finishing in fourth as the team consolidated its position as leaders in the constructors' championship.
The looming protest however did not take place but the governing body has promised to look into the matter following which it ruled the floor as illegal although Red Bull has been allowed to keep its results achieved at the Principality.
"Following on from a number of discussions in Monaco, during which it became clear that certain misunderstandings existed, we feel it would be helpful to make our position clear," FIA's technical delegate Charlie Whiting said in the note issued on Friday.