LS3 Manifold will fit an LS1?

[tufss]

I just got an LS3 manifold part no: 12602477 cheep and would like to know if it would fit on to an LS1 MOTOR for a VX SS SII. I know i will have to upgrade the TB but what else would i need to do to make it fit?

Any info would be a great help, Cheers...

[macca_779]

No it won't. Not rectangle port heads.

[clubbie]

No it won't. Not rectangle port heads.

Bullsh!t. They will fit - just need new heads and while your at it be a good idea to get the rest of the L76/98/99 LS3 etc etc

Only serious. ^^^^^what macca said.

[skidmarx]

I have an ls3 manifold for sale. $300. Wanna find out?

[bush_basha]

Will the ls3 fit a ls2 and be of improvement to it?

[macca_779]

Will the ls3 fit a ls2 and be of improvement to it?

Same again. Wrong port design

[wyldgm]

my understanding is to improve manifold on a ls1 is the later model, or ls2 manifold. the ls3 manifold will only work on ls3 heads.

[macca_779]

my understanding is to improve manifold on a ls1 is the later model, or ls2 manifold. the ls3 manifold will only work on ls3 heads.

Ls2 manifold does nothing on an ls1 either


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[tufss]

Well looks like i cant fit the LS3 Manifold to the LS1 then without changing heads. Just wanted to try and bolt on manifold straght on with a larger TB upgrade. Can always sell it if it don't fit.

Thanks for the info guys, Cheers.

[wyldgm]

Ls2 manifold does nothing on an ls1 either


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really? ive been told by a few people to run the later ls1 manifold? which is the same as an ls2 manifold?? maybe i am mistaken...

[macca_779]

really? ive been told by a few people to run the later ls1 manifold? which is the same as an ls2 manifold?? maybe i am mistaken...

That would be the ls6 manifold. And since it's on everything from VX standard it not common for guys to need them (vt guys only). And no they aren't the same. Ls2 is 4 bolt and has a larger snout. But it's been proven it doesn't provide any gain at the track. So a pointless mod.


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[wyldgm]

That would be the ls6 manifold. And since it's on everything from VX standard it not common for guys to need them (vt guys only). And no they aren't the same. Ls2 is 4 bolt and has a larger snout. But it's been proven it doesn't provide any gain at the track. So a pointless mod.


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thanks for the info champ :yahoo:

[godsvt2]

Ls2 manifold does nothing on an ls1 either


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i think this is one of those things ppl hear and pass on but its wrong
my ls2 manifold made heaps of difference on my ls1 i've had ls1 ls6 and ls2 manifolds on my ls1 and the ls2 manifold works the best

[blair_355]

Got any proof its better?

[godsvt2]

yeah it made more hp than the ls6 more power down low and more revs
if ls2 manifolds sucked they would be cheaper than the ls6 and everyone with a ls2 would be putting ls6 manifolds on

[hRTHSV]

yeah it made more hp than the ls6 more power down low and more revs
if ls2 manifolds sucked they would be cheaper than the ls6 and everyone with a ls2 would be putting ls6 manifolds on

Well I have 2 Ls2's and researched this years ago, check the GM tech article where they changed manifolds on an ls2. The Ls6 (VX -VZ) made 2 or 3 more hp on an engine dyno than the Ls2 manifold on an Ls2, the fast 90 was about 30 horspower more. Was all the proof I needed.

You can get a gain from the Ls2 manifold if you port it they are very badly bonded together and actually have steps in the ports just prior to where the mate to the heads.

[fishla]

the fast 90 was about 30 horspower more. Was all the proof I needed.

:werd:

Fast FTW

[wyldgm]

:werd:

Fast FTW

whats the FAST manifold worth? then obveously + throttle body?

[A PSYCHO]

whats the FAST manifold worth? then obveously + throttle body?

As a starting point, CAPA price list:

Manifolds
Fast Intake Manifold, Suit 78mm Throttle Body $ 1,855.00
Fast Intake Manifold, Suit 90mm Throttle Body $ 1,929.00

Throttle Bodies
Fast 78mm Throttle Body $ 1,090.00
Fast 90mm Throttle Body $ 1,180.00

Id like to think thats at the higher end of what you could get them for... :idea:

[macca_779]

i think this is one of those things ppl hear and pass on but its wrong
my ls2 manifold made heaps of difference on my ls1 i've had ls1 ls6 and ls2 manifolds on my ls1 and the ls2 manifold works the best

Remember seeing this a while ago but found it again today and thought of you. Sure a few people wouldn't mind reading the truth rather than just going on hear say. So no its not one of those things people hear and pass on.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/macca_779/Random%20Crap/GMIntakesPage32.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/macca_779/Random%20Crap/GMIntakesPage33.jpg

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=avE0UHOBLscC&printsec=frontcover&dq=gm+performance&hl=en&ei=2ILVTsGBF5GKmQXx6bx-&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=gm%20performance&f=false

[beno]

My MAP pressure was dropping off to 91 @ WOT with the standard LS6 inlet & standard throttle body (on a stroker with big cam)
Ported the LS2 manifold & stuck this on the car, with the 90mm throttle body, and MAP pressures now hold ambient value. more air has to equal power after a tune.. so would be beneficial IMHO.

[godsvt2]

thats not the truth its not even a real test and these adds are for ppl who believe whatever they read so they run out and buy a fast manifold then a fast throttle body and waist alot of money my friends waisted big dollars fitting a fast manifold and set up plus a tune for 9 hp at 500rpm higher but big losses down low where you really need it

[macca_779]

thats not the truth its not even a real test and these adds are for ppl who believe whatever they read so they run out and buy a fast manifold then a fast throttle body and waist alot of money my friends waisted big dollars fitting a fast manifold and set up plus a tune for 9 hp at 500rpm higher but big losses down low where you really need it

It's not an ad. It's a book written by guys showing what works and what doesn't who have far more of an idea than guys who pay people to work on their cars. Show some data contradicting it please.

[macca_779]

My MAP pressure was dropping off to 91 @ WOT with the standard LS6 inlet & standard throttle body (on a stroker with big cam)
Ported the LS2 manifold & stuck this on the car, with the 90mm throttle body, and MAP pressures now hold ambient value. more air has to equal power after a tune.. so would be beneficial IMHO.


The data shows more about the plenum and runner advantages than the inlet neck. Naturally on big combos like yours it will eventually pose an issue. But as can be seen above on a standard cube ls2 let alone an ls1 where most guys are doing this mod the neck size increase does jack and the more efficient runners mean the ls6 is better for most applications. For yours I would of used a fast.

[godsvt2]

my ls1 made more hp with a ls2 manifold than the ls6 i have done this change and wouldnt go back to a ls6 but i will say this you need the holley 90mm throttle body the others dont work as well the shape and angle inside the holley is perfect

i get where your coming from but just because it is a book does mean its not an add
every site mag book newspaper (even the nightly news) has adds slipped in in some way and not just the add sections look at any site if u bag out a sponsor what happens someone paying for a reason those kinda adds lots ppl are paying for it its not a real study its a paid study

[beno]

The data shows more about the plenum and runner advantages than the inlet neck. Naturally on big combos like yours it will eventually pose an issue. But as can be seen above on a standard cube ls2 let alone an ls1 where most guys are doing this mod the neck size increase does jack and the more efficient runners mean the ls6 is better for most applications. For yours I would of used a fast.

I agree, looking at that above info - it does seem the LS6 is the way to go.
im genuinely curious.. why would you use a FAST? I would have thought as long as MAP is now holding pressure the whole way, it is getting enough air, so it should therefore be 'all ok'.
I presume you would go FAST purely for the design of the inlet & the way the air is fed into each cyclinder?

[macca_779]

I agree, looking at that above info - it does seem the LS6 is the way to go.
im genuinely curious.. why would you use a FAST? I would have thought as long as MAP is now holding pressure the whole way, it is getting enough air, so it should therefore be 'all ok'.
I presume you would go FAST purely for the design of the inlet & the way the air is fed into each cyclinder?

Its designed for higher flowing inlet ports from the runners to the plenum etc. When an ls6 out flows an ls2 off runner design alone its not a hard conclusion to come to if the inlet isn't a restriction. Take into consideration what causes a plenum pressure drop from ambient.

1 is obviously an inability for the inlet to feed the plenum enough air volume.

2 is a runner combination that can suck more air than what is provided to the plenum to starve it.

Ie just because the plenum doesn't display a pressure drop at WOT doesn't mean your getting all of its 1 bar into the cylinder.

In real terms if all else were equal besides the runner design if one manifold showed 105kpa @ WOT and the other showed 95kpa @ WOT. The latter clearly has the better runners.

On a simple mods ls1 we all know the 75mm neck is more than adequate. So if your seeing a kpa increase when using an ls2. That's not a good thing but I doubt you would on a basic ls1 as its not like the ls2 is junk

[godsvt2]

so 93kpa@WOT is that good

also i am told cause the smallish port ls1 head with bigger ls2 intake runner = faster air speed and thats why it runs so well does this sound right to you

[macca_779]

so 93kpa@WOT is that good

also i am told cause the smallish port ls1 head with bigger ls2 intake runner = faster air speed and thats why it runs so well does this sound right to you

93kpa is not good at all. ls6 and ls2 manifolds were designed for exactly the same 243 head. I have no idea why GM changed the manifold design. All I know is what I read and what I hear from people who have the runs on the board testing. All say the ls6 is better.


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[surfwagon]

I have no idea why GM changed the manifold design.
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They changed the design because the LS2 manifold with its 2 halves glued together was cheaper to manufacture than the fully moulded LS1/LS6 manifolds.
But because of problems like splitting they have reverted back to the earlier method of manufacture for the square port gen4 engines like the L76/98 and LS3.
this is from pontiac performance:

"The LS2 manifold has a marginal increase in plenum volume over the LS6 and similar runner shapes optimized for the 6.0 liter engine. What changed, other than a 90mm throttle body opening, was the technology employed to produce the manifold. The Gen III LS1 and LS6 composite plastic manifolds were produced using a "lost core" plastic molding process that resulted in a single-piece plastic injected molded manifold."


The process involves the use of a low-melting temperature metal core, which is then loaded into a plastic molded tool, over-molded and then melted-out after the part is formed. Nylon 66 was the standard material used to produce the LS1/LS6 "composite manifold."


Pete continues, "The LS2 and LS7 manifolds utilize a more traditional plastic injected molding process that produces three different intake manifold sections, which are then fitted together and 'vibration welded' around the edges." Vibration welding, sometimes referred to as sonic welding in the industry, is simply melting the composite together after "vibrating" the materials to produce the necessary friction for a weld. Although the manifold material looks similar to an LS1 or LS6, the manifold is in fact produced using Nylon 6, a glass-filled polymer that is better able to be vibration welded.


Read more: http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0712_ls2_intake_manifold_porting/viewall.html#ixzz1fDZ9gBI6


__________________________________________________ ____________
senator http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=121025
dyno http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=137278
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/surfwagon/senatorbarbadosblue.jpg

[munz]

As a starting point, CAPA price list:

Manifolds
Fast Intake Manifold, Suit 78mm Throttle Body $ 1,855.00
Fast Intake Manifold, Suit 90mm Throttle Body $ 1,929.00

Throttle Bodies
Fast 78mm Throttle Body $ 1,090.00
Fast 90mm Throttle Body $ 1,180.00

Id like to think thats at the higher end of what you could get them for... :idea:

pretty sure these don't exist on shelves anymore...its all gone to 102mm