Ford tickford T3 250kw

[Solone]

My brother in law just bought a 2002 model Ford tickford series 3 250kw with a 5.6 V8 in it. Paid $28500 for it. Its not a GT but its the AU shape and has a pretty big kit on it as he says.

He reckons they absolutely scream, Ill go and see it and drive it over the weekend.

Does anyone know about these cars or driven one? Ive never heard of it. What am I in for? Are they much different from the 5.7 litres HSVs being a 5.6 litre. I thought fords were 5.0 litres or the newer ones 5.4 litres??

I sort of told him he could have bought a VE SS for that sort of money? like my car.

[Vulture]

A tuned LS1 would tear it apart wouldn't it?
$28500 sounds expensive!

[boggers007]

My brother in law just bought a 2002 model Ford tickford series 3 250kw with a 5.6 V8 in it. Paid $28500 for it. Its not a GT but its the AU shape and has a pretty big kit on it as he says.

He reckons they absolutely scream, Ill go and see it and drive it over the weekend.

Does anyone know about these cars or driven one? Ive never heard of it. What am I in for? Are they much different from the 5.7 litres HSVs being a 5.6 litre. I thought fords were 5.0 litres or the newer ones 5.4 litres??

I sort of told him he could have bought a VE SS for that sort of money? like my car.

This is what I found after a quick google:
During this period the Windsor was phased out of production with the last being sent to Australia. These Windsors were then hand assembled by Tickford Engineering and turned into the most powerful normally aspirated EFI Windsor V8 made in the world. It was stroked to 5.6 litres and boasted 250 kW (335 hp) and 500 N·m (369 lb·ft) of torque.

Seems like it was the old 5.0ltr to start off before tickford stroked it. No wonder why you see alot of these older fords stroked to 347's etc.

[Gee]

Sounds like a TE50 or TS50.

An LS-engined car has more performance, if not certainly then without much work.

Considered by some as a better overall package at the time - ring any bells to more recent HSV v FPV discussions :lol:

VE SS is likely a better car for the money - but its apples and oranges in some ways, its a car that 'means' more to some people than a garden variety Commodore or Falcon.

Will inevitably be mocked for being an AU.

[Steele304VS]

Yeh its the last of the tickford! apparently it was tuned down due to the GT coming out

they look sick!

http://s11.postimage.org/p2inuopmb/54759_7mg.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting gif (http://postimage.org/)

[ATOMIC 8]

I remember these things.. Ford fans only real hope against HSV at the time.

Didn't look to bad for an AU with their plastic fantastic body kit but still had that terrible taxi looking interior.

Had a mate that worked at a ford dealership who used to rave about them till I took him for a spin in my VY ss ute I had at the time. OTR, exhaust and tune and he couldn't believe it.

He didn't brag about those tickfords much after that.;)

Don't think you need to worry with a VE ss mate..

[Peter B - CV8]

They were a good bit of kit in their day - engine was hand assembled etc & gave out a fairly decent amount of poke (often quite above the quoted figure). Not too many good ones left, hence the apparent high $$$ that they demand.

[Solone]

I remember these things.. Ford fans only real hope against HSV at the time.

Didn't look to bad for an AU with their plastic fantastic body kit but still had that terrible taxi looking interior.

Had a mate that worked at a ford dealership who used to rave about them till I took him for a spin in my VY ss ute I had at the time. OTR, exhaust and tune and he couldn't believe it.

He didn't brag about those tickfords much after that.;)

Don't think you need to worry with a VE ss mate..

Im not worried about it, my brother in law has it. He said its in as new condition so should be nice. I had just never heard of them or cant remember if they were a good match up with the SS/Clubsport of its time. It seems more expensive than current market price for a clubsport/SS of its time.

[HSVREDSLED]

A friend of mine has one and although I have never been in it, everyone who has said it absolutley flies and SOTP feels waaaay north of 250kw.

[ClubManic]

A friend of mine has one and although I have never been in it, everyone who has said it absolutley flies and SOTP feels waaaay north of 250kw.

Could be the same as people who think the old Aussie 5L goes harder than an LS1. Generally, people think a car that revs hard, goes hard. They make 4 cylinders for such people.

Given that a VT II Clubsport had 250kw with the LS1 in 1999, I imagine a VX or VY would out do this with ease. It's not even in the same class as a VE. But that is just looking at figures. A gear box or diff alone can make those figures better or worse when applied to the track.

I had a 2.85L VH which my mechanic said went as good as most 3.3L motors and in the end we put it down to the diff being a higher ratio to give it more acceleration.

I guess it just goes to show that a car wins the race, not a motor.

[mattnsw]

Generally, people think a car that revs hard, goes hard. They make 4 cylinders for such people.

and M3’s.....

[Stewge]

I remember the first I heard of the TS50 was when it happened to be in the Need For Speed game (hot pursuit 2, had the GTS coupe in it as well).

From what I can tell it also shares some styling with the BA with the front bar (maybe the BA was inspired by the TS50?) with the large grill rather than the retarded AU XR8 front.

The high price would be more for the rareness rather than the performance when compared to an LS engine. For 28K you could get a faster VE SS etc. but it wouldn't be as rare.

[HDT-EFI]

Could be the same as people who think the old Aussie 5L goes harder than an LS1. Generally, people think a car that revs hard, goes hard. They make 4 cylinders for such people.

Given that a VT II Clubsport had 250kw with the LS1 in 1999, I imagine a VX or VY would out do this with ease. It's not even in the same class as a VE. But that is just looking at figures. A gear box or diff alone can make those figures better or worse when applied to the track.

I had a 2.85L VH which my mechanic said went as good as most 3.3L motors and in the end we put it down to the diff being a higher ratio to give it more acceleration.

I guess it just goes to show that a car wins the race, not a motor.
Ive been in a totally stock manual 6speed TE50 that did a 12.8....
from memory it didn't have big mph, but it had enough to hold off the LS motors of that era....
So i would have to say that if the T3 is running the same drive train, then it would surprise most people and can keep up with a SSV any day..:werd:

[HDT-EFI]

HSV was giving Ford's performance cars a hiding in the sales race, thanks to its Chevrolet-derived 5.7-litre V8. While Ford played around with its T-Series line-up of Falcon-based performance sedans, buyers decided the subtle styling cues and older V8 engine were not for them.
The AU Falcon in XR6 trim was doing OK, the XR8's 5.0 litres and 200 kW were seriously off the pace, and Ford -- or Tickford (as it was known) -- was in a bit of a spot.
The solution was to take HSV on at its own game, namely come up with a bigger-displacement V8 that could crank out some bigger numbers for the sales brochures.
So Tickford began local development of a version of the old Windsor 5.0-litre with a longer-throw crankshaft that stretched capacity to a much more marketable 5.6 litres.
It devoured more than a few development dollars, but as the ultimate interpretation of the old Windsor V8, the 5.6 took some beating.
Power jumped to 250kW at 5250rpm, and torque was a tugboat-like 500Nm at 4000rpm. From just above idle in the Ford there was a strong surge of torque that made the car very quick.
The car could trot around the suburbs using just third and fourth gears most of the time. But stir the engine up and it really started to hammer along, with performance similar to the best a current XR8 can deliver.
It was a good cruiser, too, and would be a welcome companion on any interstate jaunt, were it not for one thing: its incredible thirst.
Even driving sedately on the freeway, don't expect to use any less than about 12 or 13 litres per 100km. Around town, especially if heavy with the accelerator, you could easily see 20 litres per 100km as average consumption.
The engine's other big downfall was its vibration. Possibly because they were hand-assembled, some seem smoother than others, but even the best is noisy under load and fairly coarse during hard acceleration. Of course, for many owners of high-performance cars, a bit of noise and harshness only contributes to the involvement.
Transmission choices were a five-speed manual or four-speed automatic, and, given the massive torque available, the automatic is entirely viable.
The 5.6-litre engine was made optional in Tickford's TE50, a more upmarket, Fairmont-based TS50 and in the Fairlane-derived, long-wheelbase TL50.
Unlike the XR6 and XR8 versions of the AU Falcon, you don't get the quad headlight treatment, but you do get a more restrained presentation that is still different enough to separate the cars from their non-Tickford-badged relations.
Standard equipment was in line with the pricetag. The Tickford suspension tune gave the car enviable manners for such a big vehicle, although the ride can be choppy over short and sharp bumps.
But the steering is light and accurate and the big engines in the Tickfords were, and are, handy driver's cars.
Given its lighter weight (still a tad above 1700kg), the TE50 is the real performance tool, especially if you can find one with the Brembo brake package ($5000 more at the time) and a five-speed manual gearbox.
Whichever version you choose, the car will probably be one of the thousands affected by the recent Ford recall of a large chunk of its AU Falcon production. So check with the seller that the car has had the recall work done.
Other problems can include warped front brake rotors on cars without the optional Brembos, and the odd automatic transmission that might be reaching the end of its road.
What to pay



A TE50 with the big engine will still fetch around $30,000 to $40,000 and maybe even a bit more if it's fully optioned. The 5.6-litre engine doesn't seem to add a whole lot of value compared with the 5.0-litre, 220kW version, which is still all right in its own right. The better equipped TS50 is closer to $50,000 in its final, Series 3 form, which was also the AU Falcon's finest hour. The long-wheelbase TL50 is so scarce that it's worth precisely what somebody is prepared to pay for it.
The competition


In terms of big, powerful Australian sedans, only HSV's range of hot rods really comes close. But thanks to the Tickford's lesser reputation, it's the bargain of the two and, in many regards, the better vehicle.

[zorro]

Back in the day a surprisingly underrated car considering it was really the last hurrah for the ford/tickford partnership. I agree with what others said the manuals (autos are slugs) were quite a scream and better torque spread than the ls1s too. The VTs copped a bagging back then and most journos were putting the falcons ahead ( IRS anyway) in the handling department.

Pricey as they funnily enough are a rarity and a good low klm example to the ford boys is a good find, much more exclusive than present day GTs. They sound mint and probably the only AU to actually look good and tbh I'd say you could get em tuned to give an ls a scare, just a shame it's a heads off affair to do a cam swap.

[Phillshz]

I have heard they are a good bit of gear especially in the day. It`s the motor FPV/Tickford needed to be competitive with HSV but came way to late and unfortunately based on a body style that only a mother loved,resulting in it not being too much of a threat.

Sound old school tough and have a hint of lump at idle. They are known to be bad on fuel consumption with 20L/100km a regular occurance. Alot of 347ci engines had oil consumption problems,something to do with the long stroke crank putting too much side loading on the bores and wearing them into oval shapes by 30-40k. Ford did some testing with 347 cranks from the us and found the same issue while other cranks didn`t have the quality ford wanted so they had their own made locally (can`t remember who it was that made them) and came out with a 5.6L instead of 347ci (5.7L).

[Solone]

Im actually excited to drive this thing now. I wonder how it goes compared to the VE or even the older HSV's. 500nm and 250kw is about on par with the 6L in my car.

[whitels1ss]

Alot of 347ci engines had oil consumption problems,something to do with the long stroke crank putting too much side loading on the bores and wearing them into oval shapes by 30-40k.

Hmm, Ford had a problem with oil consumption and piston slap?
Sounds a little like the LS1 engines.;)

[whitels1ss]

I rember driving a mate of mines one when it was new, it was a nice car to drive and went quite well at the time for a stock car.
He tore up plenty of money on it though when he traded it in for a BA GTP a couple of years later.

[Phillshz]

Hmm, Ford had a problem with oil consumption and piston slap?
Sounds a little like the LS1 engines.;)

It started in the US aftermarket with stroked windsors and not ford directly.;)
Im not aware of them being noisy,just ovaling the bores and chewing oil.

[whitels1ss]

Im not aware of them being noisy,just ovaling the bores and chewing oil.

If the bore wears oval I reckon you would get piston slap.

[Phillshz]

Chances are your right though as it would make sense. Though only the oval bores and drinking oil problem was mentioned to me by the ex ford Mech.

[DR-vyss-108]

A mate of mine had a pursuit 250 ute with the 342ci tickford stroker, SOTP did feel better than 250kw but more expensive than an ls1 to make say 280rwkw

[macca_779]

Drivability wise they are a good thing being a stroker. Decent heads too so they revved ok for a windsor for what they were Stock for stock I'd have one over an ls1. You'd be stupid not to. But when you start modifying very different story as we all know.

[lowriding]

Loads of these engines had problems , "hand assembled" sounds exciting on paper but they were all patchy,inconsistent quality...that includes the windsors in the XR8 too , remembering that all of the last V8s were hand assembled even the xr8 220kw so wasnt a huge deal. .i would think most performance Ford/Holden built since would pass it by and be better value perfomance buy but these are a novelty so will hold their value better.

[shaneooo]

These cars were pretty good for the day and still hold their value quite well for an AU Falcon. I drove one when they were new and it was one of the best sounding factory V8's I had driven at the time. One thing I did like was it's primitive nature, it didn't have the absorbant suspension of a SS for example which meant woeful traction...but fun!!!!

[ls1 VN]

Ive been in a totally stock manual 6speed TE50 that did a 12.8....
from memory it didn't have big mph, but it had enough to hold off the LS motors of that era....
So i would have to say that if the T3 is running the same drive train, then it would surprise most people and can keep up with a SSV any day..:werd:

I would so love to see a totally stock TE50 manual do a 12.8 :bs:

[ls1 VN]

Back in 05 in Aust Muscle Car magazine (issue 18) an article where the majority of Aussie Muscle Cars are drag raced at WSID. Only cars in stock form were allowed to compete albeit with modern rubber. Proper muscle cars like Monaros, Toranas, GT Falcons and Chargers were tested alongside HSV's and FPV/Tickfords.

The article said "some care were more 'stock' than others". He didn't refer to the winning E49. Apart from modern rubber, blueprinting and tuning the motor.

Here's some elapsed times:
E49 Charger ..........13.394
HSV VX GTS 300 .........13.398
CSV VT 2 Strada SiR .........13.434
Tickford TE 50 Series 111 - 250kw .......13.975
HSV GTS Coupe 300 .........14.264
Falcon BA XR6 Turbo ........ 14.334
Falcon XY GTHO Phase 3 ........... 14.778
Torana LJ GTR XU-1 ....... 14.788
Falcon BA Mk11 GT ............... 14.831

[brentonsav]

i'd have a 02 VXII Clubsport R8 over this any day of the week, any week of the year.

You'd be able to pick up a pretty good example in the low 20's

[SM1DY]

I would so love to see a totally stock TE50 manual do a 12.8 :bs:

Well the first give away is that HDT-EFI said it was a six speed. If that's the case, then it's not stock.

[ice57l]

love how almost every ford has that special " it was detuned from the factory, because of the next model or because of some top secret myth" ,, but the only way that thing is doing a 12.8 stock is dropped from a plane....

[Solone]

That time posted for the ba gt was a slug. even a stock 5.7 statesman woud do better than 14.8s

[Solone]

Took the thing for a drive. its no slug yhats for sure, it would really be close to my ve ss. plenty of grunt that thing. nice sound too.

If its on par with my ve ss, it would be sure to embarrass the 5.7s of its day.

[Plenty]

Ive been in a totally stock manual 6speed TE50 that did a 12.8....
from memory it didn't have big mph, but it had enough to hold off the LS motors of that era....
So i would have to say that if the T3 is running the same drive train, then it would surprise most people and can keep up with a SSV any day..:werd:

Raced two at motorplex, stock vs stock my SS-v smashed both of them, and i ran no where near a 12.8.

No offence, i'm calling Bull Sh!t.......

0-100km/h of a low to mid 6sec is not going to equal a sub 12 sec pass! :werd:

[brentonsav]

Took the thing for a drive. its no slug yhats for sure, it would really be close to my ve ss. plenty of grunt that thing. nice sound too.

If its on par with my ve ss, it would be sure to embarrass the 5.7s of its day.

there is no way mate.

they're rare because no-one bought them.

"sure to embarrass the 5.7s of it's day" from your feel. are you for real?? it wouldn't be within a second on your ve ss down the qtr mile.

you're :fishing: for sure.

[HDT-EFI]

Firstly, i'm not a ford fan at all.
I'm not some dip sh!t that comes on a forum barking about some car that runs mid 11's totally stock...
I have at least 200 pases under my belt and know more then enough to know when someone is talking sh!t about 1/4 mile times...
The te50 that i witnessed running those numbers was 100% stock!
No mods at all, no exhaust, no tune , no airbox mods....NOTHING
BUT,the car 100% had a 6 speed manaul...
I can't say the 6 speed was factory fitted...the owner said it was...
The car was a silver with the big brembo's and the number plates were EVIL-something....
I raced the car at calder...more then once...my VK was running 12.6-12.9 @111mph and the te50 was 12.8-13.0 @(around) 100mph....
I was shocked that it was so fast, thats why i asked the owner what was done to it...he said its "stock" i said 'bull sh!t it is', but after having a good look at it i belived him...

[macca_779]

The T56 was not fitted to any Ford until BA mk2. Ie it ain't factory fit

[Plenty]

It's stock i swear :nos: why won't you believe me!
If that car was that quick back in 2002 when it was released FORD would still be using that engine today, because that is right up there if not faster than the new 5.0l SUPERCHARGED coyote!

[Mick1]

l can smell BS:teach:


google search!


Quote from Ford Forum......

My car T3 TS50 #75 Blueprint manual 1/4 mile 13.38 @ 102.97 mph TS 50 = 237.1 rwkw Year
2002

Series
3

Body
Sedan

Colour
Blueprint

Engine
5.6 litre V8

Transmission
Manual

Fuel
Petrol

Factory Options
− Blue/Black leather
− Koni suspention

Engine / Driveline Modifications
− BMC filter
− Modified factory headers
− 100 cell Ballistic cats
− Stainless 2 1/2 twin system
− Custom tune by Xtreme Ford Tuning

Exterior Modifications
− 20x8.5 fronts 225/35 tyres
− 20x10 rears 275/30 tyres



kW @ the Wheels
237



Best Quarter Mile Time
13.530 @ 88.44mph


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another T3 write-up.


The AU T3 TS50 has been fitted with one of the last available pushrod V8 windsor engines that Ford Australia used. This car also is the fastest push rod V8 sport sedan that Ford ever made out doing the GTHO.:p With only 72 TS50 T3 manual cars being built it would have to make them very collectable:p, what makes this vehicle unique to Ford Australia is the 5.6 litre stroker engine which was hand built by Tickford Australia also the in house approach of sourcing/designing/manufacturing of parts from local Australian companies not ex USA parts bin like the gtho's.R&D and engine blueprinting/assembly was carried out by factory trained Tickford technitions who's name(signature) you will see on an engraved plate attached to the drivers side rocker cover. This car as a package is a street race car from the factory. They steer, they stop, they're just great cars to throw around. If you want to do some research go to website THE MIGHTY TICKFORD T SERIES . What I have for sale is a FACTORY TICKFORD BUILD NUMBER 178 . 5/02 TS50 VENOM RED/STRAIGHT CHARCOAL LEATHER TRIM / STROKER 5.6 LITRE / TREMEC MANUAL 5 SPEED / FACTORY OPTIONS INCLUDE / PREMIUM SOUND SYSTEM / SUNROOF / DEALER FITTED GENUINE FORD BREMBO BRAKES /AFTER MARKET ITEMS ARE : TINTED WINDOWS / HPC GENIE STROKER TUNED LENGTH EXTRACTORS WITH STAINLESS STEEL HIGH FLOW EXHAUST SYSTEM /BATTERY TRICKLE CHARGER / DELUXE CAR COVER / ITEMS THAT WILL GO WITH THE CAR ARE THE ORIGINAL EXHAUST SYSTEM COMPLETE / 4 X AS NEW DUNLOP SP 9000 TYRES (ORIGINAL TYPE TYRES WHEN SOLD NEW) / GENUINE SALES BROCHURE /ORIGINAL KEY SETS /OWNERS, SERVICE MANUALS INC LEATHER BINDER / WHEEL LOCKING NUT KEY, INC STORAGE POUCH / DASH MAT /RUBBER FLOOR MATS /REAR BOOT MAT. THIS MODEL CAR WAS THE LAST BUILD SERIES OF THE FORD AND TICKFORD ALLIANCE. CAR HAS APPROX 30000KM ON THE CLOCK AND HAS BEEN BEEN KEPT IN STORAGE, PLEASE VEIW ATTACHED PHOTOS AND ASK ANY QUESTIONS I HAVE MORE I CAN SEND. THE PRICE ADVERTISED IS NOT FIRM I WOULD CONSIDER A GENUINE OFFER, PLEASE NO TYRE KICKERS.I have reduced the selling price to $65.000 AUD as i am running out of room in my workshop. ALSO included in this price is AROUND $10.000 of NOS TAU# Parts as follows ( GENUINE NOS FORD CLUTCH ASSY/NOS HEADLIGHT ASSY'S/TAIL LIGHT ASSY'S ,MARKER LIGHTS/COMPLETE NOS WEATHERSTRIP AND SEAL KIT/NOS THERMO FAN ASSY/NOS CLUTCH CABLE / NOS AIR CON COMPRESSOR/NOS P/S PUMP ASSY/NOS CONSOLE HOUSING /NOS TICKFORD CARPET FLOOR MATS/NOS SPOTLIGHTS ,DRIVING LIGHT KITS/NOS FRONT UPPER & LOWER MESH GRILLE ASSY'S & EMBLEM ASSY/COMPLETE BADGE KIT FOR T-3/GAS STRUT KITS FRONT&REAR /NOS DOOR LOCK ACTUATOR KITS/NOS CHROME INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE KITS/NOS COMPLETE ENGINE & HEATER HOSE & CLAMP KIT/OUTSIDE MIRROR ASSY'S/NOS INTERIOR CLOCK &CLIMATE CONTROL PANEL /NOS DRIVER WINDOW REGULATOR ASSY /NOS HOOD SILENCER ASSY INC CLIPS/NOS BREMBO BRAKE PAD KITS/NOS OUTSDE DOOR HANDLES/NOS MOMO GEAR KNOB/NOS BONNET EDGE MOULD (CAST METAL)NOT PLASTIC ALL PARTS STILL IN FACTORY BOXES .THE LIST GOES ON AND I AM RUNNING OUT OF ROOM ON THIS AD,PLEASE ENQUIRE FOR A COPY OF INVOICES THAT ARE STILL AVAILABLE TO VEIW FROM FORD WHEN PARTS WHERE PURCHASED.

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff403/vxsenator1/TickfordTS50AUT3manual10KNOSPARTS-LateModelCar-FordMuscleCarsForSaleMustangsForSale.jpg


Car type: Sedan
Year: 2002
Registration number: 1AU-T3
Registration expires: February 2011
Colour external: venom red
Colour interior: charcoal black
KM's: 29847

[Solone]

there is no way mate.

they're rare because no-one bought them.

"sure to embarrass the 5.7s of it's day" from your feel. are you for real?? it wouldn't be within a second on your ve ss down the quarter .

Maybe your right. I have not driven a 5.7 commodore for many years. but the ford 5.6 felt pretty strong. im sure they are about the same.

[planetdavo]

Jeeesh this one has stirred up the natives...
Anyone got some chill pills to spread around the forum???
Stock vs stock these stroked windsors easily matched a VX Clubsport, and in many ways beat it in normal owners usage, as they had vastly better torque in the low to mid range than an LS1.
Yes you could modify the LS1's to improve them, blah, blah, blah, but for a factory delivered car they really were a good thing.
The IRS of that time was better than Holden's too, not to mention better than the BA Control Blade design. It was a fairly heavy design though, and costly to produce, so out it went.
The negatives were more what Tickford couldn't change...the droopy body shape and that hideous taxi spec interior.

[iloveholden]

I remember reading mags back in the day comparing these tickfords to HSV's of the time. The stats showed in a straight line the HSV was still a tad faster and much better to drive because the tickfords were heavy or at least feast heavy??? Something like that.

I never liked them, they just looked too tacky and as someone said, the interior's were more rubbish than the HSV's of the time.

[ls1 VN]

Jeeesh this one has stirred up the natives...
Anyone got some chill pills to spread around the forum???
Stock vs stock these stroked windsors easily matched a VX Clubsport, and in many ways beat it in normal owners usage, as they had vastly better torque in the low to mid range than an LS1.
Yes you could modify the LS1's to improve them, blah, blah, blah, but for a factory delivered car they really were a good thing.
The IRS of that time was better than Holden's too, not to mention better than the BA Control Blade design. It was a fairly heavy design though, and costly to produce, so out it went.
The negatives were more what Tickford couldn't change...the droopy body shape and that hideous taxi spec interior.

So they were the pinnacle of performance for Ford & you are comparing it to a detuned 5.7 VX... Then saying for a factory car they were a good thing, 'that's a FPV'...so whats a detuned 5.7 VX if nothing other than a family saloon. It's not even a performance vehicle. Damn I remember kicking the butt off one of those TE 50s in my old warm 350ci powered HX monaro let alone an LS1

[csv rulz]

I remember reading comparisons on these and the clubbies, from memory they preferred the the old school lumpy v8 characteristics of the te50, both cars were pretty line ball in a straight line but the te50 drank fuel like no tomorrow. Will have to see if I can dig up some old magazines

I worked at Calder drags yesterday, trackside for 12 straight hours and I would bet my leg that a stock te50 would not run a 12.8 quarter.

[Vulture]

Took the thing for a drive. its no slug yhats for sure, it would really be close to my ve ss. plenty of grunt that thing. nice sound too.

If its on par with my ve ss, it would be sure to embarrass the 5.7s of its day.

It probably feels faster than it is owing to the fact that it makes a lot more off-idle torque.

[planetdavo]

So they were the pinnacle of performance for Ford & you are comparing it to a detuned 5.7 VX... Then saying for a factory car they were a good thing, 'that's a FPV'...so whats a detuned 5.7 VX if nothing other than a family saloon. It's not even a performance vehicle. Damn I remember kicking the butt off one of those TE 50s in my old warm 350ci powered HX monaro let alone an LS1

I believe I said VX Clubsport, which had pretty much the same output as it's Corvette origins, rather than the detuned for 91 octane regular Holden models.
Anyone can kick butt on the internet, but they were a decent thing in their time, and they had vastly better off idle torque than an LS1 ever had, HSV versions included. They were thirsty buggers though, and had a rawness some love, some don't.
Holden don't have to "win" everytime. Competition improves the breed. :yup:

(Kind of funny being questioned about showing some Ford support on this forum. People are usually oh so quick to judge me here...:lmao:)

[Falcon SXR8]

Street machine feb 2002 said " The ts50 is the best high performance sedan australia has ever produced "

It was a great car for the day I have alot of reviews of it from around that time straight line wise it was about even with the hsv but handled better simple as that. It was the only ford at the time the ford boys could acually talk about.

Yes a "tuned" ls1 would beat it but thats modded we are talking stock for stock but guess what and some may find it hard to believe but fords can be tuned too lol.

Wasn't many made so its rare now and they do have abit of a following with the ford guys as many consider it better than the ba gt that came after.

[peter b]

Street machine feb 2002 said " The ts50 is the best high performance sedan australia has ever produced "

It was a great car for the day I have alot of reviews of it from around that time straight line wise it was about even with the hsv but handled better simple as that. It was the only ford at the time the ford boys could acually talk about.

Yes a "tuned" ls1 would beat it but thats modded we are talking stock for stock but guess what and some may find it hard to believe but fords can be tuned too lol.

Wasn't many made so its rare now and they do have abit of a following with the ford guys as many consider it better than the ba gt that came after.

I dont follow all the comparison as it is not apples with apples. Comaparing a stroked engine to a standard stroke engine not everything is about power figures....
One could argue the FPV is not a stock engine as they had larger stroke than the factory 302W that the AU came out with so is not an accurate comparison. The better comparison would be the FPV vs the earlier hsv gts with the 355 stroked 304ci engine. That would be more comparitive....
Both are stroked engines both have low down torque.

[HSVREDSLED]

It probably feels faster than it is owing to the fact that it makes a lot more off-idle torque.

I think you may have it here. LS1 always had that little lag and pathetic down low grunt in stock form.

For what its worth, here is my only knowledge of the Tickford from a few years ago.

A mate who is a general duties copper had one.

He let a couple of Highway patrol fellas test drive it and they said it was a fair bit faster than the VX SS HWP cars they were driving at the time. No time slips numbers etc, just the opinion of some lads who drive V8's for a living.

PS. I never got a ride in it so I have no further comment.

[VXSS346]

If it came out of the factory like that, it is considered stock. End of story. :bash:
This was a stock car, whether Holden fans like it or not.

A tuned LS1 is not stock. :idea:

I remember this car when it was new, it was always considered better than the HSV at the time. It just looked s***. :spew: And still does. :lol:

Bottom line is however, it was the better car at the time.

Some don't seem to understand this. :rolleyes:

Its no big deal anyway, get over it. :D

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[duke5700]

Was it alah VX GTS time? or before that? Wasn't motor doing back to back sub 5 sec 0-100's in the auto VX GTS's?

[Solone]

Faster or slower its a sweet ride seriously.

Maybe the 255kw VX clubsport would hold it off but the 225kw VX SS of its day would be trounced

[csv rulz]

Was it alah VX GTS time? or before that? Wasn't motor doing back to back sub 5 sec 0-100's in the auto VX GTS's?

Pretty sure VY GTS was first auto, up until then GTS was only manual. Or have I been ill-informed?
I remember reading a review where the VT 2 GTS did 0-100km in 5.1 sec. Bloody quick considering it was over 10 years ago now

[SM1DY]

Now I don't wished to be stoned to death for bringing this up, so be gentle. But as I understand it, the revving V8 symphony ad for the HSV back in 2001 was actually the recording of one of these T-series cars. Any truth to that???

[duke5700]

Pretty sure VY GTS was first auto, up until then GTS was only manual. Or have I been ill-informed?
I remember reading a review where the VT 2 GTS did 0-100km in 5.1 sec. Bloody quick considering it was over 10 years ago now

Buggered if I can remember but I think you could be right.

The C4B despite its failing went pretty well. Certainly wouldn't be embarrased by any car since then.

[csv rulz]

Buggered if I can remember but I think you could be right.

The C4B despite its failing went pretty well. Certainly wouldn't be embarrased by any car since then.

The reason I say that is I remember a review in motor/wheels on a VY GTS auto where they recorded 271km/h and I'm pretty sure it was the first one.
VT 2 GTS is still my fav hsv ever made, smooth yet aggressive lines. I also remember an article where it blew the M5 of the time away around the nurberg

I also remember articles on these T3 cars and they were pretty special considering the previous model was only putting out 200kw

[ssdamo]

I havent been in a T3 but my mate had a T1 TS50 220kw, alloy head hand built and it went great. Sounded awesome, and was only marginally slower than my mate VT SS 6M when it was stock. Great interior and looked tough i reckon ( similar to many "spoiler-less VY's :hide: ). I would have a T3 in heartbeat.

[HSVREDSLED]

Faster or slower its a sweet ride seriously.

Maybe the 255kw VX clubsport would hold it off but the 225kw VX SS of its day would be trounced

Personally I wouldnt trust anything Holden or HSV trot out in stock form. Years ago my Clubby was only just faster than a mates Monaro and anothers SS from the same era, yet they both had higher MPH than me.

[shaness8]

I think T3 would eat a Auto VT LS1 , but throw a manual in and it might be different.

[Trek52]

Everyone on here forgets that the stock LS1 is not really that good. They are popular due to the massive increase in perf with a tune vs other similar cars. With a cam they are a different beast.

For a few grand any Ls1 car can run 12s, this is not possible with the Fords until the new coyote.

I have spent a lot of time in a TE50 and it would easily towel up a standard LS1. However with a tune the LS1 is by far a better drive.

[Solone]

Does that mean its no match for my VE SS?

[ls1 VN]

Shit people...we are talking a factory H Perf vehicle tuned to the max and a stroker, compared to an under-tuned VX Club Sport....Tune the VX with the same supporting mods the Ford has & the FORD becomes a wanna be. NO BUTS, NO WHAT IFS. end of story.
The new Ford Coyote engine...now thats a different story

[Irish]

Shit people...we are talking a factory H Perf vehicle tuned to the max and a stroker, compared to an under-tuned VX Club Sport....Tune the VX with the same supporting mods the Ford has & the FORD becomes a wanna be. NO BUTS, NO WHAT IFS. end of story.
The new Ford Coyote engine...now thats a different story

It is supercharged from the factory. Doesn't that mean it is not stock? :p

[inky]

I'm luvn this. Holdens faster, Fords got power.
The good old Aussie v8 floggering. But me myself
likes both hsv/fpv,

[BLACK 346]

Why is a tune only LS1 not stock? When I messed around with mixtures and adjusted the timing on my old charger, did that make it no longer stock?
And yes, I am aware that a tune only LS1 with no associated mods would be a rare beast.

[whitels1ss]

The old 351 ford was a 302 with a stroker crank, was it stock or modified? :rolleyes:
:hide:

[HSVREDSLED]

This whole thread is very funny and reminds me of the saying, 'if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle.'

If one camp decides they will detune and restrict motors so they have longevity in later years by way of incremental HP/KW increases then they must suffer by that decision. If another company wants to max out performance options and take the risks (warranties) etc by maxxing out engines, then kudos should go to them.

Comparision between camps should be made on what rolled out of the showroom at the time.......not what happens aftermarket.

[HSVREDSLED]

The old 351 ford was a 302 with a stroker crank, was it stock or modified? :rolleyes:
:hide:


Easy. The 351 rolled off the showroom as is. Stock means, from the factory. So its stock.

[Jamolad]

I'm just glad no one has asked if they will be able to kick sand in the face of someone at a BBQ...

[VYBerlinaV8]

I'm just glad no one has asked if they will be able to kick sand in the face of someone at a BBQ...

I think the correct term is 'upend'...

[mickeyVX350]

I'm just glad no one has asked if they will be able to kick sand in the face of someone at a BBQ...

Depends what you classify a "stock" vs "unopened" vs "modded" foot...


Then there is thongs vs shoes vs bare feet - and this forum ain't big enough for THAT argument!

[Gee]

I'm just glad no one has asked if they will be able to kick sand in the face of someone at a BBQ...


I think the correct term is 'upend'...

That was some funny shit.

[185iboy]

For the people caring about power there's 2 examples where people have ran standard T3's one doing 13.556@101.46mph and another doing a 13.71@100mph both manual. User names are monogoloid and and T3man for those who care to have a venture over to the dark side forums. Pretty good even by "VY HSV standards"

I would have probably chosen a T3 back then. I liked the look of them and the LS1 was copping a lot of shit for no low end grunt and the engine issues.

[whitels1ss]

I would have probably chosen a T3 back then. I liked the look of them and the LS1 was copping a lot of shit for no low end grunt and the engine issues.
I am glad someone else said that, I also did not mind the look of them and I remember how well they drove as well. :hide:

[Solone]

Hi,

I drove it last weekend, nice beast but I cannot work out why they command a higher price than the equivalent VX Clubsport. There is about a $10k differential and when they were new it was the same list price. I would also assume that both cars were on about the same level performance wise.

[planetdavo]

Hi,

I drove it last weekend, nice beast but I cannot work out why they command a higher price than the equivalent VX Clubsport. There is about a $10k differential and when they were new it was the same list price. I would also assume that both cars were on about the same level performance wise.

VX's are common on the ground and often pretty flogged out these days.
I'd suggest the rarity of these has led to the remaining ones being in rather good condition and not often available for sale. As far as Tickford/FPW product goes, they are well up there in the desirability rating, and the most desirable stuff tends to be better looked after as a whole.

[whitels1ss]

My brother in law just bought a 2002 model Ford tickford series 3 250kw with a 5.6 V8 in it. Paid $28500 for it. Its not a GT but its the AU shape



Yeah, a nice old car, but I would not pay $28,500 for it.
I have an immaculate bright yellow 2005 BA mark II XR6 turbo which I have been advertising for $14,900
(around half that money,) and I am not getting many calls on it.
I know which car I would rather drive and own.

[csv rulz]

Yeah, a nice old car, but I would not pay $28,500 for it.
I have an immaculate bright yellow 2005 BA mark II XR6 turbo which I have been advertising for $14,900
(around half that money,) and I am not getting many calls on it.
I know which car I would rather drive and own.

Not sure what T3's are worth but the difference is XR6T are a dime a dozen and usually have been given a hard life. (not saying yours has)
Yet a T3 is quite a rare car, how many T3's do you see driving around as apposed to XR6T?

[whitels1ss]

Not sure what T3's are worth but the difference is XR6T are a dime a dozen and usually have been given a hard life. (not saying yours has)
Yet a T3 is quite a rare car, how many T3's do you see driving around as apposed to XR6T?
Yeah, I know the XR6T is far more common but they are a much better car in performance, fuel economy, handling and looks.
(It's only a "Tickford" Falcon, it's not even a GT and the EB and EL GT's are not even very desirable cars these days)
I know the other one is rare but that is about all it has going for it and I would much rather drive the XR6T.
The HSV XU6 Commodore is more rare than a Clubsport, they are not worth much either.
All I am saying is that I can't see value in spending $28,500 on an AU Falcon, there are much more desirable cars on the market for My money. ;)

By the way, my XR6T has never been given a hard life it is very stock and original and there are still quite a number of good ones out there.

[csv rulz]

Yeah, I know the XR6T is far more common but they are a much better car in performance, fuel economy, handling and looks.
(It's only a "Tickford" Falcon, it's not even a GT and the EB and EL GT's are not even very desirable cars these days)
I know the other one is rare but that is about all it has going for it and I would much rather drive the XR6T.
The HSV XU6 Commodore is more rare than a Clubsport, they are not worth much either.
All I am saying is that I can't see value in spending $28,500 on an AU Falcon, there are much more desirable cars on the market for My money. ;)

By the way, my XR6T has never been given a hard life it is very stock and original and there are still quite a number of good ones out there.

Agree with you to a certain extent. the xr6t is a much nicer car and heaps better bang for your buck, i personally would have your xr6t over a t3 every day of the week. However this was the pinnacle from ford when there wasnt much to really talk about, it was the first ford in a long time to actually have a proper HSV competitor. For some people the T3 would be an icon car and hence its premium price.

Seems like it was on the money
http://ninemsn.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/results.aspx?Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_ Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&SearchAction=N&Qpb=1&sid=134479E587A7&keywords=&Nne=15&N=834 1216 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294960332 4294966463 4294950094

[whitels1ss]

Agree with you to a certain extent. the xr6t is a much nicer car and heaps better bang for your buck, i personally would have your xr6t over a t3 every day of the week. However this was the pinnacle from ford when there wasnt much to really talk about, it was the first ford in a long time to actually have a proper HSV competitor. For some people the T3 would be an icon car and hence its premium price.

Seems like it was on the money
http://ninemsn.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/results.aspx?Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_ Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&SearchAction=N&Qpb=1&sid=134479E587A7&keywords=&Nne=15&N=834 1216 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294960332 4294966463 4294950094

Brodie, you can buy a BF FPV GT for $28,500 (or BA GT's for even less) if you wanted a special Falcon. ;)
I would not consider parting with that much money for an AU Falcon.

[csv rulz]

Brodie, you can buy a BF FPV GT for $28,500 (or BA GT's for even less) if you wanted a special Falcon. ;)
I would not consider parting with that much money for an AU Falcon.

either would i, but everyone is different. Im not denying that there are much better, faster cars out there for the money. I was merely trying to get accross something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

[SM1DY]

Yeah, a nice old car, but I would not pay $28,500 for it.
I have an immaculate bright yellow 2005 BA mark II XR6 turbo which I have been advertising for $14,900
(around half that money,) and I am not getting many calls on it.
I know which car I would rather drive and own.

So do I......the T3

[4VMan]

You dont need to pay 28K for a T3, they SELL, (as opposed to advertised by dreamers) for low 20's, high teens.

[701let]

So do I......the T3

hahaha you serious mate?

[SM1DY]

hahaha you serious mate?

Blueprint, 5spd, brembo's, low k's (relative to age) would win hands down over any BA MKII XR6T.

[4VMan]

Blueprint, 5spd, brembo's, low k's (relative to age) would win hands down over any BA MKII XR6T.

In what way??????

[whitels1ss]

So do I......the T3
Hey, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As I said, I would much rather my imaculate 2005 BA mark II XR6 Turbo and $10,400 in the bank than that old AU Falcon. :p

[whitels1ss]

Blueprint, 5spd, brembo's, low k's (relative to age) would win hands down over any BA MKII XR6T.
What would it beat the XR6 Turbo at?
Greater fuel consumption?:lmao:

[Berlina5.7]

Why is a tune only LS1 not stock? When I messed around with mixtures and adjusted the timing on my old charger, did that make it no longer stock?
And yes, I am aware that a tune only LS1 with no associated mods would be a rare beast.

I had a tune only LS1 in a VT Berlina, pulled a best of 220rwkw @ KPM way back in 2008... Is this one of those rare beasts?? And I had the plate STK-350 ;)

[whitels1ss]

I had a tune only LS1 in a VT Berlina, pulled a best of 220rwkw @ KPM way back in 2008... Is this one of those rare beasts?? And I had the plate STK-350 ;)
Was that the white one at the dyno shoot out day when they put in a quick mail order tune?

[SM1DY]

In what way??????

If I was forced to make a decision between purchasing one or the other


What would it beat the XR6 Turbo at?
Greater fuel consumption?:lmao:

I wasn't referring to a race between the two, but as personal preference.


Hey, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As I said, I would much rather my imaculate 2005 BA mark II XR6 Turbo and $10,400 in the bank than that old AU Falcon.

Who's to say that the T3 isn't in pristine condition?? A bloke on AFF traded his BA GT recently for an EL GT that costs $40k. That may not make sense to most, but you'll often find that car purchases aren't a rational process for some people. If they were, I'd probably be driving a camry/focus/pulsar instead of an XR8.

[whitels1ss]

Who's to say that the T3 isn't in pristine condition?? A bloke on AFF traded his BA GT recently for an EL GT that costs $40k. That may not make sense to most, but you'll often find that car purchases aren't a rational process for some people. If they were, I'd probably be driving a camry/focus/pulsar instead of an XR8.

I reckon the T3 would be in pristine condition, I do not doubt that!
Buddy I just would not pay that sort of money for one of those.
I know how the motor industry works, I have worked in it for the last 36 years.
And if someone pays too much for a car, that does not make it worth the money like the guy with the EL GT.
(I have driven a couple of those and I reckon they would come close to being the worst things Ford ever put a Falcon GT badge on.)

[4VMan]

If I was forced to make a decision between purchasing one or the other



I wasn't referring to a race between the two, but as personal preference.



Who's to say that the T3 isn't in pristine condition?? A bloke on AFF traded his BA GT recently for an EL GT that costs $40k. That may not make sense to most, but you'll often find that car purchases aren't a rational process for some people. If they were, I'd probably be driving a camry/focus/pulsar instead of an XR8.

If its a daily driver pick the most modern car, itf its a collector let your heart run wild.

[Berlina5.7]

Was that the white one at the dyno shoot out day when they put in a quick mail order tune?

Good memory.. If you are thinking Round 1, what happened was, the KPM guy MC'ing the day was asking what I had done to it. Which was slam it and Lukey catback. So he publicly said he was expecting 170-180rwkw.. And it pulled 201rwkw! So I have ppl everywhere giving me daggers, thinking I was lying! So my old workmate cranks out his EFI Live, looks at the tune in mine and compared it to the stock VT tune on file. Complete match, bone stock! A few ppl were miffed, coz they had spent a couple grand each getting their VT's n VX's to pull 200! It took 5 months of me doing weekly data logging runs up Willunga Hill to get the last 25kw, without any pinging! Kinda like playing with carbs and dizzys, really! :p

[whitels1ss]

Good memory.. If you are thinking Round 1, what happened was, the KPM guy MC'ing the day was asking what I had done to it. Which was slam it and Lukey catback. So he publicly said he was expecting 170-180rwkw.. And it pulled 201rwkw! So I have ppl everywhere giving me daggers, thinking I was lying! So my old workmate cranks out his EFI Live, looks at the tune in mine and compared it to the stock VT tune on file. Complete match, bone stock! A few ppl were miffed, coz they had spent a couple grand each getting their VT's n VX's to pull 200! It took 5 months of me doing weekly data logging runs up Willunga Hill to get the last 25kw, without any pinging! Kinda like playing with carbs and dizzys, really! :p
I must be confused about something there because I remember one car there that day that read very low with a stock tune and then a huge improvement 2 minutes later with a mail order put in.
There were a few of us there who just laughed at the increase. It was just beyond belief.
Were you driving a black VE SS ute around Bains Rd Woodcroft this afternoon?

[YMK]

Since 2001 fords performance dominance started with this car.
the turbo took that mantle and has stayed in front ever since.


So do I......the T3
i dont understand. why would you want the best handling, best sounding V8 ever made in aus, over the best ever 6 cylinder vehicle ever made in aus, that sounded like a vacuum cleaner on steroids? :wave:
regarding your question about that ad. did it sound like it was running on seven, or eight cylinders?

[Solone]

Yeah, a nice old car, but I would not pay $28,500 for it.
I have an immaculate bright yellow 2005 BA mark II XR6 turbo which I have been advertising for $14,900
(around half that money,) and I am not getting many calls on it.
I know which car I would rather drive and own.

My brother in laws car is mint condition and 6X,XXXkm.

How many km does your car have? condition has plenty to do with used car prices too.

[T3man]

For the people caring about power there's 2 examples where people have ran standard T3's one doing 13.556@101.46mph and another doing a 13.71@100mph both manual. User names are monogoloid and and T3man for those who care to have a venture over to the dark side forums.


I actually ran 13.62 @ 99.99 MPH about a month after that. Yes my car is stock. The best stock time is 13.1s done by Firefox777. The car that supposedly did 12.8 is quite simply an urban myth. I'm amazed by the overall lack of knowledge about T-Series; hardly surprising when even a lot of Ford officiandos don't know much about them. But 400m is not what the T3 is about.

Anyone who wants to see what a T3 can do on the track should visit my photobucket ... two of my T3s are featured ... search for vids by jayemmdee. Enjoy!

[Mick1]

But 400m is not what the T3 is about.

So what is it about? can't be looks.......:rofl:

Nah, seriously, we're interested, cos there was a lot of BS in this thread.

[Plenty]

The best stock time is 13.1s done by Firefox777.

:toetap: Sorry but i call Bullshite!

[T3man]

:toetap: Sorry but i call Bullshite!


Go do a search on youtube and come back and tell me it's BS then you fool.

EDIT - here ya go I saved you the search ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kap_t3SpcmE&feature=plcp&context=C334b717UDOEgsToPDskKway1dyYO5xkoBVnjQddda

[Plenty]

I think you would be the fool to believe that a stock T3 can run a 13.1 1/4 mile.

That is at a struggle VE HSV territory..... You can't honestly believe that they are quicker than a VE SS let alone a VE HSV!

This car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M04cZKDmuVI) with a base tune and a rolling start from about 20km/h to 100km/h takes roughly 6 seconds.
Doesn't equate to a 13.1 IMO

[T3man]

:toetap: Sorry but i call Bullshite!


So my reply has been censored because I called you a name - it seems you are allowed to call me a liar but I don't get the same consideration. Have a look here ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kap_t3SpcmE&feature=plcp&context=C334b717UDOEgsToPDskKway1dyYO5xkoBVnjQddda

[howesy]

I had a stock standard 5.6 stroker and although I have owned both red and blue this engine developed 80% of its torque at just over 1200 revs making it a weapon off the line so much so that I changed the diff ratio from 3.45:1 to 3.0:1 and it still hammered off the line it was a burnout kings legend. I ran 297kw commo's and beat them every time and XR8 (260kw) were toast (not even competition) and the GT boys backed off and wouldnt play when it looked like a crappy AU falcon might beat them.
Although I still reckon the best car I ever owned was red this has to be one of the most underestimated engines of all time.
Here is the dyno sheet from a reputable performance house with the only mods being a cold air (home made) and K&N filter & hot dogs instead of mufflers.

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t464/cpe351/dynosept08.jpg

[OzJavelin]

The old 351 ford was a 302 with a stroker crank, was it stock or modified? :rolleyes:
:hide:
351w was a different block, etc to the 302w
351c was the "original"; the 302c was an Aussie-only destroked 351c

[T3man]

I think you would be the fool to believe that a stock T3 can run a 13.1 1/4 mile.

That is at a struggle VE HSV territory..... You can't honestly believe that they are quicker than a VE SS let alone a VE HSV!

This car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M04cZKDmuVI) with a base tune and a rolling start from about 20km/h to 100km/h takes roughly 6 seconds.
Doesn't equate to a 13.1 IMO

You aren't making yourself seem any smarter. Your argumnet is basically that "because a tomato can't do it then surely a cucumber has no chance"

Get in the real world mate - I think you're blinded by the light!

The mods to that car were limited to CAI and exhaust - NO TUNE, NOTHING ELSE!

Mine the same.

Until you have driven one you are in no position to comment anyhow. It is clear your knowledge of the product is next to zero - you should get some experience before you start offering opinions and calling people liars.

[Plenty]

So my reply has been censored because I called you a name - it seems you are allowed to call me a liar but I don't get the same consideration. Have a look here ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kap_t3SpcmE&feature=plcp&context=C334b717UDOEgsToPDskKway1dyYO5xkoBVnjQddda

Did you actually watch that video? You just proved my point, that car is NOT stock!

[howesy]

Agree with you to a certain extent. the xr6t is a much nicer car and heaps better bang for your buck, i personally would have your xr6t over a t3 every day of the week. However this was the pinnacle from ford when there wasnt much to really talk about, it was the first ford in a long time to actually have a proper HSV competitor. For some people the T3 would be an icon car and hence its premium price.

Seems like it was on the money
http://ninemsn.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/results.aspx?Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_ Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&SearchAction=N&Qpb=1&sid=134479E587A7&keywords=&Nne=15&N=834 1216 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294960332 4294966463 4294950094

Well I traded my 5.6 Au in for a brand new XR6 turbo (FG2) and I can tell you now that the T3 is not only a lot more fun to drive and sounds better but an XR6 turbo is as gutless as anything off the line compared to a T3 and I actually regret it. I was looking at SS commo as well but it would seem our local dealer is not in the business of selling cars and never called me back after telling him I wanted to buy that week. Like I said before that motor developed 80% of maximum torque at just over 1200 revs and I believe was understated by Ford when you look at my untuned dyno sheet from a reputably accurate place. It got power to the ground extremely quickly in bucket loads and thats where it would constantly flog other more powerful vehicles because there power was developed too far up in the rev range to compete. Although I have a favourite holden I have owned in my heart the T3 engined vehicles would have to be my ford favourite and the stuff of absolute legend.

[ls1 VN]

It may well be a factory engine, but it's far from 'stock standard' 302ci stretched to 5.6 & finely tuned. You changed out a 3.45 diff for a 3.0.
Most underestimated engine 'of all time' I doubt it!!! A SBC stroked & highly tuned will easily out perform that boat anchor.

[macca_779]

It may well be a factory engine, but it's far from 'stock standard' 302ci stretched to 5.6 & finely tuned. You changed out a 3.45 diff for a 3.0.
Most underestimated engine 'of all time' I doubt it!!! A SBC stroked & highly tuned will easily out perform that boat anchor.

Define stock. Because I always went by stock meaning that's how it left the showroom. Ie full extensive shakedowns, complied with all relevant regs and backed by a manufacturer warranty. The 5.6 was all that. Same reasons the Holden 5.7 was

I agree with you that it ain't the most understated engine. Sure it was good. But not by a long shot.

[howesy]

It may well be a factory engine, but it's far from 'stock standard' 302ci stretched to 5.6 & finely tuned. You changed out a 3.45 diff for a 3.0.
Most underestimated engine 'of all time' I doubt it!!! A SBC stroked & highly tuned will easily out perform that boat anchor.
Its as it left the factory no different to the HSV's that are finely tuned and no different to when the general stroked the old faithful holden 5.0l but I guess with one eye you cant see that I've owned both I bet you have only ever had holdens because of that one eye.

Get some mechanical knowledge about you and you will realise that by going to a 3.0:1 diff it would actually make it slower off the line (derr) and the dyno was done on the car as it left the factory (exhaust exempted)without a tune (remember conservative factory tune) Anyway thanks for the great laugh and in the real world you gotta give credit where its due even if its a rice burner but with 80% of max torque avail at 1250 revs this is where it toasted the 297 commodores sure they developed more power but have a look at where its developed. wish I still had i more than once I humiliated die hards. It was a highly precision built engine done as a tribute to the last of the windsor V8s and no different to the fine tuning stroking and enhancements that HSV do. Hope you can find that othwer eye one day and start to appreciate all cars there are some good ones out there.

[ls1 VN]

Its as it left the factory no different to the HSV's that are finely tuned and no different to when the general stroked the old faithful holden 5.0l but I guess with one eye you cant see that I've owned both I bet you have only ever had holdens because of that one eye.

Get some mechanical knowledge about you and you will realise that by going to a 3.0:1 diff it would actually make it slower off the line (derr) and the dyno was done on the car as it left the factory (exhaust exempted)without a tune (remember conservative factory tune) Anyway thanks for the great laugh and in the real world you gotta give credit where its due even if its a rice burner but with 80% of max torque avail at 1250 revs this is where it toasted the 297 commodores sure they developed more power but have a look at where its developed. wish I still had i more than once I humiliated die hards. It was a highly precision built engine done as a tribute to the last of the windsor V8s and no different to the fine tuning stroking and enhancements that HSV do. Hope you can find that othwer eye one day and start to appreciate all cars there are some good ones out there.

What a D--k!
To start I have owned way more Fords than Holdens....but gave up on their reliability, 4 of them I repowered with Chevs to get them to move, only had 4 Holdens.

'Get some mechanical knowledge about me' Baaahaaaa! Why make a car slower off the line! wet our panties did we with a slow Ford! hahaha! 'derr' to you to.

Mate I grew up in an era when we re powered all sorts...early Zephyrs, Vauxhall Victors, Hot Rods etc, really think you need to reevaluate your mouth when you open it, you haven't even been on here for a month yet.

[howesy]

What a D--k!
To start I have owned way more Fords than Holdens....but gave up on their reliability, 4 of them I repowered with Chevs to get them to move, only had 4 Holdens.

'Get some mechanical knowledge about me' Baaahaaaa! Why make a car slower off the line! wet our panties did we with a slow Ford! hahaha! 'derr' to you to.

Mate I grew up in an era when we re powered all sorts...early Zephyrs, Vauxhall Victors, Hot Rods etc, really think you need to reevaluate your mouth when you open it, you haven't even been on here for a month yet.
well I'll leave it here because your statements while they make me laugh and give good entertainment show clear bias and i doubt you grew up at all. fact is all makes do good engines from time to time and this was one of them to pull an 1750kg vehicle bog std as tested by magazines from 0-100 in the high 5 second bracket and high 13's to low 14's for quarter. No tunes no mods not even an wxhaust that is an engine that has to be respected. Like Isaid best car I ever owned was a holden but this engine deserves respect, sure it idled rough like an old school V8 but it had ball tearing power delivery from 1250 revs all the way to redline. take care and have a nice day wish you luck with your vision problems.

[VZ_V8]

Who cares how they perform? They are butt ugly. Being kicked in the face would be a more pleasurable experience than having to look at one of these cars. Don't even get me started about the interior...

[Plenty]

bog std as tested by magazines from 0-100 in the high 5 second bracket and high 13's to low 14's for quarter.

Getting a little ahead of yourself there chum.... please upload a scanned magazine image where they got one into the 5's and a quarter into the 13's? :toetap: waiting.........



Who cares how they perform? They are butt ugly. Being kicked in the face would be a more pleasurable experience than having to look at one of these cars. Don't even get me started about the interior...

:werd:

[howesy]

Getting a little ahead of yourself there chum.... please upload a scanned magazine image where they got one into the 5's and a quarter into the 13's? :toetap: waiting.........




:werd:
well it is hard to find info thee days I owned mine from new figures depend on who is testing some drive better than others but for one here is a link that gives flat 6 0 to 100 but 2 others tested it at 5.97 in the manual I have PDF copies but cant get them on photobucket. they quote 14.3 quarter but i do remember years ago one article quoted high 13's the stroked holden 5.7 of the same year yes holden used a cast iron stroker motor before the chev. hang on thats not standard though is it. anyway the 5.6 developed almost all the holdens stroked torque at 1200 revs if you cant see that its impressive then hey. an article from autoweb with the 5.97 0-100 for a start and another with a 6.0 flat. they quote 14.3 for quarter so hey call me on that till I find another but that should stop that nervous affliction with your toe. LOL
signing off die hards, by the way I currently drive an SS because Ford couldnt offer what I want (V8 grunt at an affordable price) and Im happy with it.

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_54995/title_The-Power-to-Move/newsarticle.html

http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?__Qpb=1&__Nne=15&Cr=0&R=57200&__Ns=p_Year_String%7C1%7C%7Cp_Make_String%7C0%7C%7 Cp_Family_String%7C0&__N=2994+4294961316+4294771507+4294910598&silo=1305&seot=1&trecs=2&__sid=1353134157D6

[howesy]

Getting a little ahead of yourself there chum.... please upload a scanned magazine image where they got one into the 5's and a quarter into the 13's? :toetap: waiting.........




:werd:
here's another under 5.9 0-100 it was actually fords release figures.

http://www.redbook.com.au/car-reviews/2002/large-passenger/ford/falcon/ford-falcon-te50-3304

[ls1 VN]

fact is all makes do good engines from time to time and this was one of them to pull an 1750kg vehicle bog std as tested by magazines from 0-100 in the high 5 second bracket and high 13's to low 14's for quarter. No tunes no mods not even an wxhaust that is an engine that has to be respected.

Are you for real!!! NO engine that has been stroked is 'BOG STANDARD' tested by magazines! what did the magazines do: lay on the floor or sit on the seats :)
No tunes no mods!! what planet are you from? A bloody shitty old 302 windsor bog stock standard is good for 290hp. Really mate you need to pull your head in & read up about a bog stock 302 not some high faluting factory eqipped hot rodded stroker engine that is far from bog stock.

[macca33]

What say you about the Callaway enhanced C4B engine fitted to the HSV cars in the past. That is hardly a stock LS1, but is accepted as being a 'factory' engine, as the car was manufactured with that engine. How does the Tickford 5.6lt engine differ in that regard. Factory is factory is factory, is it not?

Also, please ensure that any comments made comply with the forum T & C - the discussion has been okay up until now, apart from a couple of comments that are teetering on the edge, so please keep it nice.

cheers

[ls1 VN]

What say you about the Callaway enhanced C4B engine fitted to the HSV cars in the past. That is hardly a stock LS1, but is accepted as being a 'factory' engine, as the car was manufactured with that engine. How does the Tickford 5.6lt engine differ in that regard. Factory is factory is factory, is it not?

Also, please ensure that any comments made comply with the forum T & C - the discussion has been okay up until now, apart from a couple of comments that are teetering on the edge, so please keep it nice.

cheers

The LS motors ex factory ie: Vette & Caddy are deemed factory standard...Callaway, HSV, FPV, Tickford etc etc are after market an all have been enhanced.
Sadly or other wise, the Holden never really had a factory standard engine when you think about it, as it was factory detuned for domestic market & only aftermarket HSV Clubby was it then bought back to it's full tune & also enhanced again for GTS etc

[zorro]

I beg to differ on your point there.

Tickford/HSV/FPV/AMG etc all are separate entities all producing an enhanced version of a factory vehicle which are ADR approved, legal etc unlike say your local workshop which doesn't do the above.

If you want to get the nitty gritty you could argue that the boss/Miami v8s are not factory being ford Australia piece them together from the ford parts catalogue and aren't 'true' crate motors.

[ls1 VN]

I beg to differ on your point there.

Tickford/HSV/FPV/AMG etc all are separate entities all producing an enhanced version of a factory vehicle which are ADR approved, legal etc unlike say your local workshop which doesn't do the above.

If you want to get the nitty gritty you could argue that the boss/Miami v8s are not factory being ford Australia piece them together from the ford parts catalogue and aren't 'true' crate motors.

Are you begging to differ from me? because what you said in your first sentence I've already said, mmmmmm

Who cares about ADR approved, that's not what this threads about. Stock is not an enhanced engine thats been played with because ADR approve it.

Who would argue about Ford Au piecing together an engine from the Ford US catalogue...It's Ford factory putting an engine together from the Ford factory catalogue...they end up with a bone stock Ford engine as per factory specs. Who's talking about a 'crate' engine? Just an engine that's been produced from the factory without upgrades or tuning from a tag on performance company.
If as FOON has said below that it's infact FPV doing those engines, then 'no' it's not stock

[FOON]

All Ford 5.4 Boss and 5.0 Miami engines are all built by FPV with FPV tags on all engines including the Ford built XR8's.

[zorro]

Nah. Your mate earlier, phone didn't quote it

I'll argue that while FPV etc arent manufacturers technically they are selling a different product to their specification. Regardless what original make they use as a donor they are still putting out a showroom floor vehicle which is my point on the ADR side of things and not a stroker build by 'ABC performance' down the road so really it's not modified.

[zorro]

All Ford 5.4 Boss and 5.0 Miami engines are all built by FPV with FPV tags on all engines including the Ford built XR8's.

I don't disagree that was what I was saying, ford v8s are bitsas put together here whilst GM come in boxes with whatever tune is booted into them for specific model output.

[FOON]

Just highlighting the fact Ford doesn't build their V8 engines, their performance arm does much the same as the Stroker T3 engine was.

And for the record if it was bought through a dealer, and as delivered from the factory where it was built it is 'Stock' to me.

[zorro]

All good :cheers:

[Mick1]

Sadly or other wise, the Holden never really had a factory standard engine when you think about it, as it was factory detuned for domestic market & only aftermarket HSV Clubby was it then bought back to it's full tune & also enhanced again for GTS etc

CB4, yes or no!

:confused:So, there is no factory standard holden motor either?

[cashie]

The LS motors ex factory ie: Vette & Caddy are deemed factory standard...Callaway, HSV, FPV, Tickford etc etc are after market an all have been enhanced.
Sadly or other wise, the Holden never really had a factory standard engine when you think about it, as it was factory detuned for domestic market & only aftermarket HSV Clubby was it then bought back to it's full tune & also enhanced again for GTS etc

Surely any car with a stock engine as fitted by the original manufacturer is "stock". Ie FPV, Tickford, HSV etc. since when are they aftermarket when FPV, Tickford and HSV have vehicle manufacturer status?

[ls1 VN]

Surely any car with a stock engine as fitted by the original manufacturer is "stock". Ie FPV, Tickford, HSV etc. since when are they aftermarket when FPV, Tickford and HSV have vehicle manufacturer status?

You have a 'stock' engine & you have a 'High Performance' engine if you want to call an obviously enhanced engine 'stock' hey go for it.

[macca_779]

It's from factory it's stock end of story. Stating otherwise is completely missing the definition.

[cashie]

It's from factory it's stock end of story. Stating otherwise is completely missing the definition.

Exactly my point.

[FOON]

It's from factory it's stock end of story. Stating otherwise is completely missing the definition.

Totally agree, it is Factory Stock.

[ls1 VN]

It's from factory it's stock end of story. Stating otherwise is completely missing the definition.

Once again, since when is any of the aftermarket companys factory, they might be tag ons but that is all they are. Factory is GMH etc

[FOON]

Once again, since when is any of the aftermarket companys factory, they might be tag ons but that is all they are. Factory is GMH etc

Walkinshaw, Herrod's etc are aftermarket companies that don't need to adhere to ADR compliance rules, why I don't know but thats the way it is, FPV and HSV have to manufacture cars to defined set of rules making them a manufacturer, and if you manufacture generally its in a factory making the car a factory stock car.

[macca_779]

Once again, since when is any of the aftermarket companys factory, they might be tag ons but that is all they are. Factory is GMH etc

Since they are registered manufacturers and must adhere to all the regulations in exactly the same manner as their parent company. Herrod, Walkinshaw do not.

[ls1 VN]

OK....But surely common sense prevails here...A stock engine is exactly that, not an engine fitted with a bigger cam, heads been tweaked, & any other go fast goodies added that make it a High Performance engine from a Factory performance add on like HSV FPV.
A true stock HP engine was the old 4bolt main 010 block 350ci from GM

[macca_779]

OK....But surely common sense prevails here...A stock engine is exactly that, not an engine fitted with a bigger cam, heads been tweaked, & any other go fast goodies added that make it a High Performance engine, even if from a Factory performance add on like HSV FPV.
A true stock HP engine was the old 4bolt main 010 block 350ci from GM

Think about what your saying. By your definition an ls1 is stock an ls6 is not.

[VXSS346]

It's from factory it's stock end of story. Stating otherwise is completely missing the definition.

But its all too hard for some to understand this. :(

[howesy]

Once again, since when is any of the aftermarket companys factory, they might be tag ons but that is all they are. Factory is GMH etc

HSV's is also a seperate entity to GMH it is a similar setup where they are the recognised performance arm of that particular manufacturer and vehicles are enhanced and sent back to be sold through showrooms with full manufacturer warranty. regardles of the argument about what sort of motor it was the point was that as a factory supplied and warranted car (just like HSV) it was a formidable package of its time and lets not forget the original 5.7 of the same era from Holden was a cast iron stroked holden motor and it fell way short on power and torque compared to the 5.6, both strokers both from factory. In your rationale about what denotes factory standard then GMH never made a standard V8 for a while because they were all 5.7 strokers for a short time.
My last post seemed to have not made t to the board????? but for the to tappers my statement was high 13' to low 14's and sub 5 sec 0-100 ,, it is hard to find them any more but here are 2 links quoting factory specs showing manuals with one quoting 5.97 and 14.3 (within what I remember) and the other quoting 5.9. all in cars that weighed at least 1750kg.
anyway why people just cant admit that no matter who makes a car sometimes you just have to admit that something was a good package in their day in the circumstances regardless of personal taste.

http://www.redbook.com.au/car-reviews/2002/large-passenger/ford/falcon/ford-falcon-te50-3304

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_54995/title_The-Power-to-Move/newsarticle.html

[Plenty]

well it is hard to find info thee days I owned mine from new figures depend on who is testing some drive better than others but for one here is a link that gives flat 6 0 to 100 but 2 others tested it at 5.97 in the manual I have PDF copies but cant get them on photobucket. they quote 14.3 quarter but i do remember years ago one article quoted high 13's the stroked holden 5.7 of the same year yes holden used a cast iron stroker motor before the chev. hang on thats not standard though is it. anyway the 5.6 developed almost all the holdens stroked torque at 1200 revs if you cant see that its impressive then hey. an article from autoweb with the 5.97 0-100 for a start and another with a 6.0 flat. they quote 14.3 for quarter so hey call me on that till I find another but that should stop that nervous affliction with your toe. LOL
signing off die hards, by the way I currently drive an SS because Ford couldnt offer what I want (V8 grunt at an affordable price) and Im happy with it.

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_54995/title_The-Power-to-Move/newsarticle.html

http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?__Qpb=1&__Nne=15&Cr=0&R=57200&__Ns=p_Year_String%7C1%7C%7Cp_Make_String%7C0%7C%7 Cp_Family_String%7C0&__N=2994+4294961316+4294771507+4294910598&silo=1305&seot=1&trecs=2&__sid=1353134157D6

My challenge still stands..... " Ford claims the TE50 can accelerate from standstill to 100km/h in 5.9 seconds", all of the links provided are for "FORDS" claims and not independently tested.
When the E1 HSV was released, HSV stated it was capable of 0-100km/h in 4.9sec and even offered a bottle of French champagne to any media tester that could do it...... I'm still waiting to see that.
Your grasping at strings now to justify it, oh FYI i never said it wasn't a good engine, i just didn't believe the acceleration figures from these so called "stock" cars!

Cheers.

[BigFella]

i remember an old LS1.com dyno day many years ago i think 2003 or 2004 it was, i took my new car VX2 Calais LS1 still stock at this stage, put it on the dyno for a look and a bloke put his tickford series 3 250 ute on and the calais ended up having more stock power! he coudlnt believe it

[ls1 VN]

But its all too hard for some to understand this. :(

And I thought NZ had more sheep!

[Mick1]

And I thought NZ had more sheep!


:lol:

Still waiting, 'C4B', factory -yes or no?:toetap:


T3 was manufactured in a Stock form........there were multiple copys & they complied with ADR:teach:

[macca_779]

:lol:

Still waiting, 'C4B', factory -yes or no?:toetap:


T3 was manufactured in a Stock form........there were multiple copys & they complied with ADR:teach:

Absolutely. Even though screwed together by callaway. HSV still had to run it through its stringent manufacturer sign off processes the same as any other model they release.

[macca_779]

i remember an old LS1.com dyno day many years ago i think 2003 or 2004 it was, i took my new car VX2 Calais LS1 still stock at this stage, put it on the dyno for a look and a bloke put his tickford series 3 250 ute on and the calais ended up having more stock power! he coudlnt believe it

Bet he pipped you in derived torque though. From memory they put out over 500nm.

[zorro]

Mac that was my point earlier, although it seemed that the belief earlier was a off the floor car was actually modified :lol:

And yeah the torque band would of been a bit more impressive on the falcon

[cashie]

And I thought NZ had more sheep!

Wrong again, more sheep in Australia (90million v's 60 million)...
FFS, next you will be saying AMG engines aren't stock as well?

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

Is anybody else here feeling stupider reading this thread? Stock is as it comes assembled from the manufacturers factory. HSV have a factory, FPV have a factory, AMG have a factory, M Division have a factory. Walknishaw and Herrod have workshops, don't have a manufacturer backed warranty and do not have to comply with ADR rules and most importantly DON'T MANUFACTURE CARS! I can't believe I got sucked into this....

[mattnsw]

I beg to differ on your point there.

Tickford/HSV/FPV/AMG etc all are separate entities all producing an enhanced version of a factory vehicle which are ADR approved, legal etc unlike say your local workshop which doesn't do the above.




People keep confusing AMG as being like HSV and FPV when it is not.

AMG is definitely not aftermarket, its proper name is Mercedes-Benz AMG and is fully owned by Daimler AG as is Mercedes-Benz itself. As a subsidiary, AMG cannot do anything without Mercedes-Benz approval. The same goes for BMW and their ‘M’Division and Audi’s RS cars. All three make their performance cars stock from the factory.

[ls1 VN]

Thread was about the T3....Be what it is, if an engine comes from factory or aftermarket & has been played with to make more power than domestic ie: high performance then it is not a standard engine.

Cashie: I figured that by the follow the sheep replies.
Mick1: if you were up with the play instead of being one of the above you would've seen i replied to your C4b way back...but hey, you can keep waiting & following.

[FOON]

:argue:
929

[cashie]

Thread was about the T3....Be what it is, if an engine comes from factory or aftermarket & has been played with to make more power than domestic ie: high performance then it is not a standard engine.

Cashie: I figured that by the follow the sheep replies.
Mick1: if you were up with the play instead of being one of the above you would've seen i replied to your C4b way back...but hey, you can keep waiting & following.

You are a funny guy, let's put a stop to this stock engine discussion (and stop wrecking this guys thread) by saying that you kiwi's have your own incorrect definition of what constitutes a stock engine.
Don't know why you keep calling people sheep when all they are doing is stating the obvious (to some).
Btw why are you talking about "standard" engines now, I could almost agree with what you have been saying if you want to use the word "standard"...

[macca_779]

Thread was about the T3....Be what it is, if an engine comes from factory or aftermarket & has been played with to make more power than domestic ie: high performance then it is not a standard engine.

Cashie: I figured that by the follow the sheep replies.
Mick1: if you were up with the play instead of being one of the above you would've seen i replied to your C4b way back...but hey, you can keep waiting & following.

Again by that reasoning a 5.4 BOSS motor from Ford or FPV is not a standard engine as the heads were never originally intended for that block.

[ls1 VN]

Again by that reasoning a 5.4 BOSS motor from Ford or FPV is not a standard engine as the heads were never originally intended for that block.

How clever lol....Did the domestic 302 come with Boss heads? No the performance 302 did. ie: not Standard. Any engine that's over and above the domestic be it Factory XR8 260/290/or bigger. Tickford etc. HSV 185/220/ LS 255/260/300 etc are performance engines. They are not standard engines....Why on earth you guys can't differentiate between the 2 gets me.

[zorro]

The ford boss/coyotes are pieced together here as they like I mentioned previously are made up by ford/prodrive out of ford usa parts catalogue. They are not a mass produced 'crate' motor however on a production line here in Australia.

Boss meant sfa anyway was just a marketing word, they have nothing on the boss motors of older and modern mustangs.

The ls series are a genuine crate motor, the only difference in output being factory limitations in tune and exhausts. They bolt them in as they land off the boat, I believe this is the point you are missing. They aren't anything special

[ls1 VN]

The ford boss/coyotes are pieced together here as they like I mentioned previously are made up by ford/prodrive out of ford usa parts catalogue. They are not a mass produced 'crate' motor however on a production line here in Australia.

Boss meant sfa anyway was just a marketing word, they have nothing on the boss motors of older and modern mustangs.

The ls series are a genuine crate motor, the only difference in output being factory limitations in tune and exhausts. They bolt them in as they land off the boat, I believe this is the point you are missing. They aren't anything special

Not talking about crate motors here! Just standard V Performance. You are way off track with your 'crate motor' thinking.

Have you looked at a Boss head...nothing like a 2v Windsor or 2v Cleveland head...The 4v rally pack Cleveland head was a performance upgrade fitted to the US performance cars, no different with the big Boss heads. Big Boss head fitted to the Windsor in any shape or form is a performance upgrade, hence not standard.

[macca_779]

How clever lol....Did the domestic 302 come with Boss heads? No the performance 302 did. ie: not Standard. Any engine that's over and above the domestic be it Factory XR8 260/290/or bigger. Tickford etc. HSV 185/220/ LS 255/260/300 etc are performance engines. They are not standard engines....Why on earth you guys can't differentiate between the 2 gets me.

Ok then so answer this what was the standard v8 in the fg series range.

By your reasoning there is no such thing as a stock xr8

Next example. Was a vt HSV ls1 a performance engine and a VZ ls1 not even though they share the same power and internals.

[Gee]

You have a 'stock' engine & you have a 'High Performance' engine if you want to call an obviously enhanced engine 'stock' hey go for it.

The way the word 'stock' (or I guess 'standard' as used in this thread too) was originally used and continued for decades, particularly in motorsport, and therefore particularly with your references to the Boss 302, is the very reason why manufacturers produced higher output variants - it is so damn clear its not funny.

If it was stuck under the bonnet in the factory the ****en thing is 'stock' - end of story. Sheesh.

[throttlehappy]

kiwis are a bit strange...ay bro

anyhow ive driven a 5.6 manual, whatever model it was (cant remember) it wasnt to shabby. sounded pretty good but the shifter was rubbish and i mean utter rubbish

[zorro]

Ok then so answer this what was the standard v8 in the fg series range.

By your reasoning there is no such thing as a stock xr8

Next example. Was a vt HSV ls1 a performance engine and a VZ ls1 not even though they share the same power and internals.

:yup: that's as layman as you can get

[Mick1]

Mick1: if you were up with the play instead of being one of the above you would've seen i replied to your C4b way back...but hey, you can keep waiting & following.
:lol::lol:----------------------:(

Ya no, l once new l guy at work who was on restricted duties. He found it very difficult to answer yes or no to any question, also he usedto talk over others constantly changing the direction of the discussion to try to make a point. He also found it nessasary to call ppl names if they didn't agree. He was clinically diagnosed as retarded.


l think this discusion started with a Ford-man claiming a particular T3 had run a XX-ET while claiming it was stock. He also had some small modifications listed .
ln a reply to his post he was told he was talking bs because it was not as it came from the factory, therefore not STOCK.

Multiple copys of the same vehicle , same engine = stock from the factory= STOCK.

[zorro]

Not talking about crate motors here! Just standard V Performance. You are way off track with your 'crate motor' thinking.

Have you looked at a Boss head...nothing like a 2v Windsor or 2v Cleveland head...The 4v rally pack Cleveland head was a performance upgrade fitted to the US performance cars, no different with the big Boss heads. Big Boss head fitted to the Windsor in any shape or form is a performance upgrade, hence not standard.

Factory cars are not performance upgrades, they simply don't do it anymore. Dealer race specials back in the fun days of group 1 when you could option your car with a 10 bolt Salisbury or 351/350, find the right dealer pay the money and it shows up.

A factory released car maybe marketed as performance but an oem cammed/head/aspirated or fi is exactly that, a factory car. You want more go see your local engine builder

[ls1 VN]

:yup: that's as layman as you can get


VT HSV LS1 series 2 produced 250kw performance engine

VZ LS1 produced 235kw Domestic
HSV VZ produced 250 & 260kw Performance

How layman do you want to get.

[ls1 VN]

Factory cars are not performance upgrades, they simply don't do it anymore. Dealer race specials back in the fun days of group 1 when you could option your car with a 10 bolt Salisbury or 351/350, find the right dealer pay the money and it shows up.

A factory released car maybe marketed as performance but an oem cammed/head/aspirated or fi is exactly that, a factory car. You want more go see your local engine builder

So now you've changed to factory cars.....the god damn argument is stock V performance engine, just because a cars come from the factory floor does not make the engine standard.

[T3man]

kiwis are a bit strange...ay bro



Well I'm glad someone has finally come out and said it! LOL.

[zorro]

VT HSV LS1 series 2 produced 250kw performance engine

VZ LS1 produced 235kw Domestic
HSV VZ produced 250 & 260kw Performance

How layman do you want to get.

No I haven't changed argument just putting things into perspective as many ways i can as you seem to be set on factory performance.

They are both standard motors, the ls1 was the breadwinner once the lt1 came to an end, then from there the progression of the ls series. Whatever was thrown in the car was irrelevant it is a standard showroom car, nothing performance issued. You don't buy a clubby with an aftermarket cam or heads it comes to you a standard clubsport off the showroom floor.

AND the VZ ls1 is not a VZ HSV ls2, the ls2 was the next inline above the ls1, 297 engine killerwasps can be achieved with ls1 as there are plenty tune only making 225+ at the wheels. They could of done it, well they did up until the ls2 was put in but the Holden's were getting the l76 so it would of left hsv in a pickle

The TE50 was not a special build, you didn't option a stroker or think maybe a 6 cyl would be better, that's what it came with standard.

[ls1 VN]

Well I'm glad someone has finally come out and said it! LOL.

So you thick pricks would say that if GM bought out a 2013 Vette or HSV a car with a n/a LS3 motor producing say 650fwhp that it's a standard motor. ffs get real

[ls1 VN]

No I haven't changed argument just putting things into perspective as many ways i can as you seem to be set on factory performance.

They are both standard motors, the ls1 was the breadwinner once the lt1 came to an end, then from there the progression of the ls series. Whatever was thrown in the car was irrelevant it is a standard showroom car, nothing performance issued. You don't buy a clubby with an aftermarket cam or heads it comes to you a standard clubsport off the showroom floor.

AND the VZ ls1 is not a VZ HSV ls2, the ls2 was the next inline above the ls1, 297 engine killerwasps can be achieved with ls1 as there are plenty tune only making 225+ at the wheels. They could of done it, well they did up until the ls2 was put in but the Holden's were getting the l76 so it would of left hsv in a pickle

The TE50 was not a special build, you didn't option a stroker or think maybe a 6 cyl would be better, that's what it came with standard.

What planet are you from!!!!
I am not talking cars....once again for you.....just you! 'STOCK ENGINE V PERFORMANCE ENGINE' Got that

[howesy]

Hey guys, I was ridiculed earlier for a statement suggesting published material about sub 6 second 0-100 and quarters between high 13 to low 14.

welll i did post back no less than 2 times but mysteriously the posts have not made it up. Must be a glitch in the system because there was no derogatory remarks pointed to anyone and no rudeness or swearing so no reason to moderate but never the less they both disappeared.

If you want the links to the articles and dont mind admitting your wrong then send me a PM and I will gladly seny you the red book article and autoweb article both giving 5.97 and 5.90 sec 0-100 and 14.3 sec quarter most articles have disappeared these days as they are now old.

[Mick1]

Hey guys, I was ridiculed earlier for a statement suggesting published material about sub 6 second 0-100 and quarters between high 13 to low 14.

welll i did post back no less than 2 times but mysteriously the posts have not made it up. Must be a glitch in the system because there was no derogatory remarks pointed to anyone and no rudeness or swearing so no reason to moderate but never the less they both disappeared.

If you want the links to the articles and dont mind admitting your wrong then send me a PM and I will gladly seny you the red book article and autoweb article both giving 5.97 and 5.90 sec 0-100 and 14.3 sec quarter most articles have disappeared these days as they are now old.

Post the links, don't be shy, you won't be deleted.. We're watchin!:thumbsup:

[Mick1]

So you thick pricks would say that if GM bought out a 2013 Vette or HSV a car with a n/a LS3 motor producing say 650fwhp that it's a standard motor. ffs get real


:nono:Damn it, now there you go again!:hitler:

[Plenty]

Hey guys, I was ridiculed earlier for a statement suggesting published material about sub 6 second 0-100 and quarters between high 13 to low 14.

welll i did post back no less than 2 times but mysteriously the posts have not made it up. Must be a glitch in the system because there was no derogatory remarks pointed to anyone and no rudeness or swearing so no reason to moderate but never the less they both disappeared.

If you want the links to the articles and dont mind admitting your wrong then send me a PM and I will gladly seny you the red book article and autoweb article both giving 5.97 and 5.90 sec 0-100 and 14.3 sec quarter most articles have disappeared these days as they are now old.

I saw them and also replied to them, they were both Claims made by Ford not actual independent test achieved times, like i said in my earlier post, HSV claimed the E1 could do 4.9sec 0-100km/h and even offered a bottle of champers to the lucky media man that could manage to match it....... guess what? The champagne is still on ice.
Manufacturers claims mean jack shite!

I'll stand by my Bullshite claim of a stock T3 running that time. The only test i managed to find on google managed a mid 6 and mid 14, right up there with a 2012 SV6 :fishing:

[Jamolad]

So could we say HSV and FPV put stock performance engines in their cars?

[howesy]

I saw them and also replied to them, they were both Claims made by Ford not actual independent test achieved times, like i said in my earlier post, HSV claimed the E1 could do 4.9sec 0-100km/h and even offered a bottle of champers to the lucky media man that could manage to match it....... guess what? The champagne is still on ice.
Manufacturers claims mean jack shite!



I'll stand by my Bullshite claim of a stock T3 running that time. The only test i managed to find on google managed a mid 6 and mid 14, right up there with a 2012 SV6 :fishing:
well now your comparing cars made in 2002 to ones made in 2012 how laughable is that.
what ever you reckon at the end of the day numbers mean jack shite as you say the real world is what counts and my 2011 SS even through all the advancement is not as punchy and in 2002 when it was on the street brand new there was not one as it left the factory car ford or holden that could beat the sucker in a run, XR8's, GT's HSV's all got the shock of their life. see I've got the benefit of having owned and driven both so can talk from experience any one else is really talking shite as you put it. forget the numbers its the performance that matters and for its day 2002 not 2012 or any other fantasy date you have in mind it was up there with the best.

[csv rulz]

Im not going to get in an argument with it as iv got better things to do with my day, but my view is:

Sold by a car manufacturer = stock

[howesy]

maybe go on youtube as well and see the many low 13 runs and pretty good 60 foot times as well from stock TE50's you can find it through google LOL

[VZ_V8]

:lol:

So let me see if I understand this. By your reasoning a Veyron W16 quad turbo engine which produces over 1000hp is stock as there is no derivative of it in another car in a lesser guise. Therefore there is no other "standard" version of that motor.

Yet the engine in a VY SS is identical to the engine in a VY clubsport with the only difference in power coming from external factors (tune, exhaust) yet that engine is no longer stock?

http://www.demotivator.org/photos/832/93868a469409821d2559884c4bf8d11d.JPG

[FOON]

So you thick pricks would say that if GM bought out a 2013 Vette or HSV a car with a n/a LS3 motor producing say 650fwhp that it's a standard motor. ffs get real

Have you noticed that YOU are the ONLY one against the factory stock term, and who's the thick prick :doh: :flip3:

[macca_779]

VT HSV LS1 series 2 produced 250kw performance engine

VZ LS1 produced 235kw Domestic
HSV VZ produced 250 & 260kw Performance

How layman do you want to get.

Check your history better.

Examples VTII Clubsport 250kw
VZ SS 250kw

One a performance engine and one not by your logic. :confused:

As Ash pointed out by VZ HSV had moved on to the LS2

[Martin_D]

I just knew this thread would end up comparing Veyrons to some crappy old AU Falcon
The Interweb rules :bow:

[T3man]

I just knew this thread would end up comparing Veyrons to some crappy old AU Falcon
The Interweb rules :bow:

I agree. Grossly unfair to the Veyron. On a bang for your buck scale it just can't compete with a T3. LOL.

[VZ_V8]

:lol:

A veyron would be worthy of a mention in a thread about a ham sandwich. It knows no limits.

[planetdavo]

Wonder what that fella would think about VW/Audi releasing something like six different kW outputs for their 2.0 turbo 4cyl...which figure is "stock", and which ones are either detuned or modified? :lol:

[VZ_V8]

Wonder what that fella would think about VW/Audi releasing something like six different kW outputs for their 2.0 turbo 4cyl...which figure is "stock", and which ones are either detuned or modified? :lol:

There would be an aneurysm for sure! :lol:

[howesy]

heres another google of an untuned unit 13.1 do you dare to watch?
the mechanics used to nickname mine the freak (more balls than the GT's at the time)

[macca33]

howesy - it seems that you cannot link to other URLs, either because your post count has not yet reached 20, or for some other reason. Put up the link without the www and someone will link it for you.

[Plenty]

heres another google of an untuned unit 13.1 do you dare to watch?
the mechanics used to nickname mine the freak (more balls than the GT's at the time)


howesy - it seems that you cannot link to other URLs, either because your post count has not yet reached 20, or for some other reason. Put up the link without the www and someone will link it for you.


Yes please i'm dying to see an un-tuned, STOCK T3 that'll do a 13.1 1/4 mile.
This is getting so old now, A stock as from factory Tickford Ford AU Falcon T3 is NOT and i say again is NOT going to do a 13.1, i'd barely believe a 14.1!

[howesy]

Here it is believe what you want I used to own a T3 engined vehicle and I can tell you it flogged the pants off any 2002 model vehicle I came up against although I didnt come up against everything I embarassed an aweful lot of people both Ford and Holden.
youtube.com/watch?v=Kap_t3SpcmE

[Plenty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kap_t3SpcmE

and one i found VE SS Vs TE 50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8WetfBAoI&feature=related).
TE 50 has heads, exhaust and tune. Still it only manages a 13.3.........

Your stock car has no hope mate, point proved and case closed!

[howesy]

you can spin numbers around all day long and videos bt fact is the variables including the drivers are enormous so I'll go by experience and having owned both (i dare say you are unqualified having not) I belive from experience (no teacher like it) that my old T3 had more balls than a 2002 BA Falcon GT, XR8 or any 2002 SS commodore it came up against as a matter of fact they were toast my power came in shite loaads earlier and I beat them every time. we have a SS and an FG turbo in the family now and the pick now would have to be the SS but I still mis the T3 engine it just had that raw torquey feel. The only thing that I see closed in these posts are the minds of the people who have probably never even driven one at least I have driven and owned both that makes me the expert LOL
Enough said the original posting was just asking what he was in for in a ride in one but it has got so off track
Simply put your ride will be an exhilarating ride in a vehicle with respectable performance even by todays standards. There will be faster cars on both sides of the fence but its a car you have to drive its all about the feel and the way the power is delivered.
I hope this answers your original posting .
All the rest has been good fun.

[Mick1]

Here it is believe what you want I used to own a T3 engined vehicle and I can tell you it flogged the pants off any 2002 model vehicle I came up against although I didnt come up against everything I embarassed an aweful lot of people both Ford and Holden.
youtube.com/watch?v=Kap_t3SpcmE

Your link is the same as post #102, and it was said at the time this car has mods(pos others, we will never know). What we are looking for is an accurate 'Factory' time that you can brag about. :)

[flappist]

heres another google of an untuned unit 13.1 do you dare to watch?
the mechanics used to nickname mine the freak (more balls than the GT's at the time)

I suspect they were not talking about your CAR when they used that word.

So which one of the Ford Forum T3 zealots are you? You sound a bit like butler or firefox.....

For those who tuned in late, T3 zealots are like a cross between a Jehova's Witness and a Scientologist with the same grasp on reality as your average greens senator and act like the taliban if you are an infidel who questions the gospel according to Saint Tickford and does not worship the "Precious"....

[Plenty]

you can spin numbers around all day long and videos bt fact is the variables including the drivers are enormous so I'll go by experience and having owned both (i dare say you are unqualified having not) I belive from experience (no teacher like it) that my old T3 had more balls than a 2002 BA Falcon GT, XR8 or any 2002 SS commodore it came up against as a matter of fact they were toast my power came in shite loaads earlier and I beat them every time. we have a SS and an FG turbo in the family now and the pick now would have to be the SS but I still mis the T3 engine it just had that raw torquey feel. The only thing that I see closed in these posts are the minds of the people who have probably never even driven
one at least I have driven and owned both that makes me the expert LOL
Enough said the original posting was just asking what he was in for in a ride in one but it has got so off track
Simply put your ride will be an exhilarating ride in a vehicle with respectable performance even by todays standards. There will be faster cars on both sides of the fence but its a car you have to drive its all about the feel and the way the power is delivered.
I hope this answers your original posting .
All the rest has been good fun.

You are totally correct I have never driven a t3, but I have run enough hi-po cars down the quarter to know roughly what will run what. Like I said it may have been a great car for many, I think your giving it a little to much credit.

Cheers

[howesy]

I suspect they were not talking about your CAR when they used that word.

So which one of the Ford Forum T3 zealots are you? You sound a bit like butler or firefox.....

For those who tuned in late, T3 zealots are like a cross between a Jehova's Witness and a Scientologist with the same grasp on reality as your average greens senator and act like the taliban if you are an infidel who questions the gospel according to Saint Tickford and does not worship the "Precious"....
Sorry wrong on that one, and I was never involved in any car clubs, My cars have always been for me and my enjoyment I have worshiped all of them that I have had both holden and ford for what they were all individual in their own right. so sorry I dont worship any in particular, For the record Best car I ever owned was a holden and fastest was a Ford and it wasnt a windsor. Anyway I find all this hilarious because I have the good fortune to have owned and driven many cars and 99% of the commodore boffin blind faithful here would be seen dead in a ford let alone have extensively driven one so their comments are baseless and as you put it without factual relativity being that you have no first habd knowledge of any of this. anyway enough Bull Sheiser going back and forth see post 192 where I answered the original question this is so far of track its even more laughable than some of the claims and counter claims, some for entertainment some for blind faith.

[flappist]

Sorry wrong on that one, and I was never involved in any car clubs, My cars have always been for me and my enjoyment I have worshiped all of them that I have had both holden and ford for what they were all individual in their own right. so sorry I dont worship any in particular, For the record Best car I ever owned was a holden and fastest was a Ford and it wasnt a windsor. Anyway I find all this hilarious because I have the good fortune to have owned and driven many cars and 99% of the commodore boffin blind faithful here would be seen dead in a ford let alone have extensively driven one so their comments are baseless and as you put it without factual relativity being that you have no first habd knowledge of any of this. anyway enough Bull Sheiser going back and forth see post 192 where I answered the original question this is so far of track its even more laughable than some of the claims and counter claims, some for entertainment some for blind faith.

Quod erat demonstrandum