HSV reluctance to provide test cars.

[4VMan]

Just wondering why in the past 12 months HSV have suddenly been reluctant to provide test cars to mags and car forums when ever a S/C miami GT is being tested? have they suddenly become scared? or is there another reason??

[HSVREDSLED]

Just wondering why in the past 12 months HSV have suddenly been reluctant to provide test cars to mags and car forums when ever a S/C miami GT is being tested? have they suddenly become scared? or is there another reason??

Because they are smart.:teach:

Why would they want to test a car against a supercharged opposition? Hardly a level playing field. Full credit to ford though. Historically they have resorted to forced induction such as the XR6T and now strapped on superchargers to compete with Holdens offerings. All credit to them. Do what it takes to beat the opposition...until the opposition play the same game...then.....

[4VMan]

Because they are smart.:teach:

Why would they want to test a car against a supercharged opposition? Hardly a level playing field. Full credit to ford though. Historically they have resorted to forced induction such as the XR6T and now strapped on superchargers to compete with Holdens offerings. All credit to them. Do what it takes to beat the opposition...until the opposition play the same game...then.....Smart to a point i guess... or looks like theyre scared. Unfortunately it wil be another 2 years till HSV have anything to respond to FPV, and even then there's no guarantee the 5.3 will cut it. That's a hell of a lot of hide and seek...

[lowriding]

Anyone have HSV l sales Vs FPV sales , YTD and Total ?

The amount of current FPV's i actually see indicate that their future is shaky imo .

[4VMan]

Anyone have HSV l sales Vs FPV sales , YTD and Total ?

The amount of current FPV's i actually see indicate that their future is shaky imo .

No point leading the sales race by numbers if you arent selling them at a profit. Id rather sell half of what HSV do but make a profit doing so.

[macca33]

No point leading the sales race by numbers if you arent selling them at a profit. Id rather sell half of what HSV do but make a profit doing so.
Do you honestly think that HSV are not selling their vehicles at a profit??? Get off the grass mate.

[lowriding]

No point leading the sales race by numbers if you arent selling them at a profit. Id rather sell half of what HSV do but make a profit doing so.

...not that old baseless argument again ....

[Jamolad]

Anyone have HSV l sales Vs FPV sales , YTD and Total ?

The amount of current FPV's i actually see indicate that their future is shaky imo .

Weird, isn't it. Ford's V8 finally has the straight line speed advantage after many, many years playing also-ran to HSV, and yet they are still not selling any great numbers.

And other than a couple of runs of that ad with that Canadian Mazda legend asking "Wanna hear it again?", the most I have seen that package spruiked has been on this Holden forum.

Maybe some got scared off by the reports of problems with water pumps, and the fact that most dealers did not know how to replace them????

Still does not answer the original question though...maybe the OP needs to try some different bait??

[Jamolad]

{SNIP}Id rather sell half of what HSV do but make a profit doing so.

Reckon FPV will ever sell close to half of what HSV do, profit or otherwise???

[4VMan]

Reckon FPV will ever sell close to half of what HSV do, profit or otherwise???

Given the brand loyalty Holden/HSV enjoy i doubt it, logic has no place when there are people blinded by brand loyalty, still, id rather make a profit then discount at break even or a loss just to outsell my competition.

[macca33]

Given the brand loyalty Holden/HSV enjoy i doubt it, logic has no place when there are people blinded by brand loyalty, still, id rather make a profit then discount at break even or a loss just to outsell my competition.
Again I'll put the question mate - do you honestly believe that HSV are selling cars without a significant margin?

FWIW, I'm far from one-eyed and respect the product produced by Ford / FPV - both T6 and SC V8.

You however, just seem to be here to commence a troll session, without providing any evidence of your claims.

Either put up, or shut-up...

[4VMan]

Again I'll put the question mate - do you honestly believe that HSV are selling cars without a significant margin?

FWIW, I'm far from one-eyed and respect the product produced by Ford / FPV - both T6 and SC V8.

You however, just seem to be here to commence a troll session, without providing any evidence of your claims.

Either put up, or shut-up...

Ease up Tiger, im no rooky, its a serious question, its the first time ive seen HSV shy from a fight, what's your perspecive on their motives?

[macca33]

My perspective is that they have simply decided to opt out, even though, dynamically, the overall HSV product is superior to the FPV. The S/C Coyote is a ripper, pity the chassis cannot support the motivation - as indicated by many a scribe...

That's my perspective, now how about ponying up with the evidence that HSV are selling cars at a loss......

[701let]

Ease up Tiger, im no rooky, its a serious question, its the first time ive seen HSV shy from a fight, what's your perspecive on their motives?

How many LS3 HSVs have been tested before? Seriously a black edition clubsport isnt going to perform any differently to a regular clubsport so whats it matter?

[seldo]

Ease up Tiger, im no rooky, its a serious question, its the first time ive seen HSV shy from a fight, what's your perspecive on their motives?Judging from this and your posting history, you're obviously a Ford guy (your loss) but let's see you put up some substantial evidence of your claim "still, id rather make a profit then discount at break even or a loss just to outsell my competition."You've just ignored others' requests...

[CLUBRED]

Politics, we all know FPV have nothing after this round, where as HSV have numerous options. Scared, hardly, when the ink drys on the paperwork for the new engine/s then we'll see.

[Jamolad]

No, he's not a troll at all, even though my best man who is a member on AFF just rocked up and was surprised to see me in a thread started by 4VMan, who he reckons has over 10k posts over on AFF.

Oz says he would have far more than that if he hadn't lost his shit over there earlier this year, pulled his skirt over his head and started crying like a princess, and been sulking ever since.

HulkBA used better bait than this.

Though he is right that there are some that are brand loyal, with much of that loyalty groomed in our early years, which is why in my age bracket the Holden guys worship Peter while the Ford guys all love Dick (that did not go over well with my best man - best go share a drink with him, then come back to see proof of how much HSV drop on each car to stay ahead of FPV in the sales race seeing as their numbers are oh so close).

[4VMan]

No, he's not a troll at all, even though my best man who is a member on AFF just rocked up and was surprised to see me in a thread started by 4VMan, who he reckons has over 10k posts over on AFF.

Oz says he would have far more than that if he hadn't lost his shit over there earlier this year, pulled his skirt over his head and started crying like a princess, and been sulking ever since.

HulkBA used better bait than this.

Though he is right that there are some that are brand loyal, with much of that loyalty groomed in our early years, which is why in my age bracket the Holden guys worship Peter while the Ford guys all love Dick (that did not go over well with my best man - best go share a drink with him, then come back to see proof of how much HSV drop on each car to stay ahead of FPV in the sales race seeing as their numbers are oh so close).
LOL you are a wise man, AFF Pty Ltd is a profitable business, anyone who interferes or exposes Russ's profit stream is cast aside.. or atleast his fluffer does it.. Anyway, back on topic, tell me why HSV wont take up the challenge???

[Deco28]

LOL you are a wise man, AFF Pty Ltd is a profitable business, anyone who interferes or exposes Russ's profit stream is cast aside.. or atleast his fluffer does it.. Anyway, back on topic, tell me why HSV wont take up the challenge???

God, you know the answer you're searching for. So quit it. Someone should lock this thread.

[4VMan]

God, you know the answer you're searching for. So quit it. Someone should lock this thread.

So why are HSV shy?

[tsute]

Yes, The new Coyote SC makes god power and from what I hear around with the tunners they are good for alot more, BUT, I wouldn't be putting to much money on them making the good power for long. A little like the T6's make good power withy very little outlay, but the shit boxes just don't last. Never have and never will.

[cashie]

LOL you are a wise man, AFF Pty Ltd is a profitable business, anyone who interferes or exposes Russ's profit stream is cast aside.. or atleast his fluffer does it.. Anyway, back on topic, tell me why HSV wont take up the challenge???

Where's your proof that HSV are refusing to supply cars for comparison tests?
When the coyote first came out i saw several reviews and comparisons, i don't think I would say the HSVs were disgraced.
The coyote is a great engine crying out for a decent chassis and some rear grip.

[macca_779]

Yes, The new Coyote SC makes god power and from what I hear around with the tunners they are good for alot more, BUT, I wouldn't be putting to much money on them making the good power for long. A little like the T6's make good power withy very little outlay, but the shit boxes just don't last. Never have and never will.

You sure about that buddy.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

[4VMan]

Yes, The new Coyote SC makes god power and from what I hear around with the tunners they are good for alot more, BUT, I wouldn't be putting to much money on them making the good power for long. A little like the T6's make good power withy very little outlay, but the shit boxes just don't last. Never have and never will.
Really? so you're involved with fords quality validation process??? Is it tighter that the Holden/LS1 (***cough rattly oil burner***) engine QC process.?

Anyway, AGAIN..... back on topic, why are HSY Shy?

[tsute]

You sure about that buddy.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

I have 3 mates that work at different Ford/FPV dealerships and the amount of T6's that come in stuffed, weather it be motors, turbo's, gearbox, diffs doesn't really matter. And all cars range from stock to alot of work carried out on them. Than comes the old 5.4, if I was a Ford guy like these guys are, and not to mention that they all drive SS Commodore's than you be the judge. All I am saying is yes they make good power but for how long will they last.

[4VMan]

I have 3 mates that work at different Ford/FPV dealerships and the amount of T6's that come in stuffed, weather it be motors, turbo's, gearbox, diffs doesn't really matter. And all cars range from stock to alot of work carried out on them. Than comes the old 5.4, if I was a Ford guy like these guys are, and not to mention that they all drive SS Commodore's than you be the judge. All I am saying is yes they make good power but for how long will they last.

Well im calling BS, i think youre talking brand biased Bull#$%t, The T6 is a very reliable motor, just like the L98 is (unlike the LS1 rattly oil burning POS was). Talk facts not BS.

[tsute]

Well im calling BS, i think youre talking brand biased Bull#$%t, The T6 is a very reliable motor, just like the L98 is (unlike the LS1 rattly oil burning POS was). Talk facts not BS.

I am only relaying what ford mechanics put up with, I would speak facts but I have never had the luxury of working at a Ford dealership and I left the trade 9 years ago but i still have alot of friends in the trade and i can only tell people what I am told. And as for the LS1 oil burning POS, I have 1 of these and with 180,000 K's on the clock and still running 5/30 weight oil and not using a drop, I guess I got one of the good ones.

So, thats my proof where's yours about HSV giving there cars away.........

[A PSYCHO]

Talk facts not BS.

HAHAHA. The irony here is just too much. Tell us again about HSV selling at a loss....

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII using tapatalk

[4VMan]

I am only relaying what ford mechanics put up with, I would speak facts but I have never had the luxury of working at a Ford dealership and I left the trade 9 years ago but i still have alot of friends in the trade and i can only tell people what I am told. And as for the LS1 oil burning POS, I have 1 of these and with 180,000 K's on the clock and still running 5/30 weight oil and not using a drop, I guess I got one of the good ones.

So, thats my proof where's yours about HSV giving there cars away.........

Ok, thanks for the reply...

[cashie]

Ok, thanks for the reply...

Can I have a reply?


Where's your proof that HSV are refusing to supply cars for comparison tests?
When the coyote first came out i saw several reviews and comparisons, i don't think I would say the HSVs were disgraced.
The coyote is a great engine crying out for a decent chassis and some rear grip.

You obviously love your FPV, and good on you, but your generalisations on HSV and even the LS1 are well off the mark.
Let's not talk about the Boss 260/290 known problems (I have owned 4 of them)... Have also owned 3 LS1 based cars as well, i know which one I find more a POS (hint: it wasn't made in Mexico)

[macca_779]

I have 3 mates that work at different Ford/FPV dealerships and the amount of T6's that come in stuffed, weather it be motors, turbo's, gearbox, diffs doesn't really matter. And all cars range from stock to alot of work carried out on them. Than comes the old 5.4, if I was a Ford guy like these guys are, and not to mention that they all drive SS Commodore's than you be the judge. All I am saying is yes they make good power but for how long will they last.

Yeah ok mate. I've got a few mates of my own who fix LSx cars. No one is going hungry let me tell you.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

[Plenty]

No point leading the sales race by numbers if you arent selling them at a profit. Id rather sell half of what HSV do but make a profit doing so.

FPV actually sell a third of what HSV sells and i bet HSV makes two thirds more money as well.

Difference is people want to own an HSV, FPV well....... just look how many you see!

[awesome _vzss]

Well im calling BS, i think youre talking brand biased Bull#$%t, The T6 is a very reliable motor, just like the L98 is (unlike the LS1 rattly oil burning POS was). Talk facts not BS.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:your calling the ls1 a pos,now that's funny.
Next your gonna say Fords 5.4L was a power house :lol:
When all these magazine's do there holden vs Ford or hsv vs fpv its always one sided.
For example motor magazine in the past have put a hsv gts up against the fpv typhoon,why becuase it was fpv's quickest car,not the bf gtp which would be a better comparison considering its a v8 ffs.
At the end of the day the carsales figures speak for themselves,if Ford falcons are such a great product then why are they pulling the pin on them?
Sure even I'm impressed by the new fpv gtp,the coyote engine shows very good potential but is that enough, no and that's where hsv dominate with the gts,people want a damn good car for 85k not just a good motor.
All I can say to the troll Ford fans are enjoy the new Taurus.

[Plenty]

LOL you are a wise man, AFF Pty Ltd is a profitable business, anyone who interferes or exposes Russ's profit stream is cast aside.. or atleast his fluffer does it.. Anyway, back on topic, tell me why HSV wont take up the challenge???


What challenge mate? They have compared the cars numerous amounts of times. HSV get done in a straight line, but the FPV loses everywhere else.
How many times do you need to be told that the chassis sucks, the power down sucks, the driving position sucks and the starter button and so on and so on.

Not much point having a great engine when the rest of the package is crud!

[SM1DY]

if Ford falcons are such a great product then why are they pulling the pin on them?

All I can say to the troll Ford fans are enjoy the new Taurus.

You must be privy to some information that the rest of us aren't.

[185iboy]

What challenge mate? They have compared the cars numerous amounts of times. HSV get done in a straight line, but the FPV loses everywhere else.
How many times do you need to be told that the chassis sucks, the power down sucks, the driving position sucks and the starter button and so on and so on.

Not much point having a great engine when the rest of the package is crud!

Drive one for a week and you wont want to get out though. I'm not here to spin a sale though.



HSV tests were long done with before the 5.0 came out anyway. Not much point testing the same car over and over and over again. It's been a good 5 years, not much has changed for HSV. FPV sales will take off. They've started a new generation of car that wipes the floor with the outgoing model - it's only been out for a year.

[Plenty]

Drive one for a week and you wont want to get out though. I'm not here to spin a sale though.



HSV tests were long done with before the 5.0 came out anyway. Not much point testing the same car over and over and over again. It's been a good 5 years, not much has changed for HSV. FPV sales will take off. They've started a new generation of car that wipes the floor with the outgoing model - it's only been out for a year.

I had a decent stint in one, great power and the ZF box is great, but damn that seating position sucks arse. Rear end floats and bounces and power down is terrible, there is just way too many negatives to swing my vote.

Like i said great engine and box, the rest, nothing to exciting i'll stick with the VE thanks.

[Marco]

All I can say to the troll Ford fans are enjoy the new Taurus.

What he said. In a couple of years from now FPV will be all about front-drive V6 turbos, so whatever the state of the market is now is only a short term thing.

[SM1DY]

What he said. In a couple of years from now FPV will be all about front-drive V6 turbos, so whatever the state of the market is now is only a short term thing.

If the Falcon goes FWD, the Commodore will be right behind it. The ideal outcome for the Australian car market is that the Falcon and Mustang share an RWD platform, a possibility that has been gaining momentum of late.

[Solone]

HSV did supply many VEs for reviews.

If the magazines or press really wanted a VE HSV dont you think they could hold of one?

But as the OP says, I have actually never seen a comparo with a E3 HSV and that new FPV V8?

Im sure the E3 would hold its own anyway. negligible differences.

[Carby]

Don't know why you are bringing this up 4V man, Drive Article by Richard Blackburn on November 6 2010 tested the GT against the GTS and whereas they liked the superior power of the GT (one trick pony like the F6) the GTS was touted as the better car overall. Then today in Carsguide Ged Bumer the managing editor, wrote for his best car of the year:

"HSV GTS - a benchmark Aussie muscle car delivering stunning performance at a real world price."

So herein lies your answer - HSV is taking pity on it's old rival whose base Falcon is in dire straights sales wise, and by not providing any cars for comparo's with the GT HSV is actually aiding FPV's survival. What swell guys those HSV boys are..............

[cashie]

It appears this thread is a troll, the OP has been back many times but hasn't addressed or responded to any of the facts..
I think Carby has summed it up above!

[seedyrom]

:lmao::lmao::lmao:your calling the ls1 a pos,now that's funny.
Next your gonna say Fords 5.4L was a power house :lol:
2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT 5.4L 315 kW =58.33 kw/litre


1999 HSV LS1 5.7L 250 kw =43.86 kw/litre
1999 HSV GTS LS1 5.7L 300 kw =52.63 kw/litre
2002 HSV LS1 5.7L 260 kw =45.61 kw/litre
2003 HSV LS1 5.7L 285 kw =50 kw/litre
2004 HSV LS2 6.0L 297 kw =49.5 kw/litre
2006 HSV LS2 6.OL 307 kw =51.17 kw/litre
2008 HSV Maloo, Clubsport, Senator 6.2L 317 kW =51.13 kw/litre
2008 HSV GTS, Grange 6.2L 325 kw =52.42 kw/litre


Just sayin'

[Carby]

Nice one Seedy - but quaint little stats like that tell only part of the picture The Honda S2000 had 88.5 kw per litre but was just about undriveable in traffic.

Smaller engine bulk, weight and simplicity have a lot going for it..................

[Plenty]

2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT 5.4L 315 kW =58.33 kw/litre


1999 HSV LS1 5.7L 250 kw =43.86 kw/litre
1999 HSV GTS LS1 5.7L 300 kw =52.63 kw/litre
2002 HSV LS1 5.7L 260 kw =45.61 kw/litre
2003 HSV LS1 5.7L 285 kw =50 kw/litre
2004 HSV LS2 6.0L 297 kw =49.5 kw/litre
2006 HSV LS2 6.OL 307 kw =51.17 kw/litre
2008 HSV Maloo, Clubsport, Senator 6.2L 317 kW =51.13 kw/litre
2008 HSV GTS, Grange 6.2L 325 kw =52.42 kw/litre


Just sayin'

funny thing is it had so much power but only a very limited range of revs, gutless piece of crap motor it was!

[RAVENLS1]

i wouldn't call it a gutless peice of crap, just not as as good as what holden had

[RAVENLS1]

I am only relaying what ford mechanics put up with, I would speak facts but I have never had the luxury of working at a Ford dealership and I left the trade 9 years ago but i still have alot of friends in the trade and i can only tell people what I am told. And as for the LS1 oil burning POS, I have 1 of these and with 180,000 K's on the clock and still running 5/30 weight oil and not using a drop, I guess I got one of the good ones.

So, thats my proof where's yours about HSV giving there cars away.........the LS1 is rattley though!

[awesome _vzss]

2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT 5.4L 315 kW =58.33 kw/litre


1999 HSV LS1 5.7L 250 kw =43.86 kw/litre
1999 HSV GTS LS1 5.7L 300 kw =52.63 kw/litre
2002 HSV LS1 5.7L 260 kw =45.61 kw/litre
2003 HSV LS1 5.7L 285 kw =50 kw/litre
2004 HSV LS2 6.0L 297 kw =49.5 kw/litre
2006 HSV LS2 6.OL 307 kw =51.17 kw/litre
2008 HSV Maloo, Clubsport, Senator 6.2L 317 kW =51.13 kw/litre
2008 HSV GTS, Grange 6.2L 325 kw =52.42 kw/litre


Just sayin'

On paper it does sound good,but the cars fitted with the 5.4L just don't go as good as it sounds imo.
I'm not being one sided,as I test drove a bf xr8 manual before choosing to purchase the vz ss which I thought was the better car out of the 2.

[Wonky]

Do you honestly think that HSV are not selling their vehicles at a profit??? Get off the grass mate.

Even if they only break even on their cars they make a heap on their parts, even allowing for a smaller manufacturing base. For example, Holden VE guard approx $250 ea, HSV guard approx $770 ea! SSV undertray approx $65 ea, HSV undertray (very similar) $440 ea!! :eeeeek:

[Evman]

Why are you all so focused on HSV? The real question is "Why doesn't Ferrari provide cars for multiple-car comparisons??"

I smell conspiracy.

Either that or they just don't want to be seen to be beaten. But that's just too obvious.

[cashie]

2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT 5.4L 315 kW =58.33 kw/litre


1999 HSV LS1 5.7L 250 kw =43.86 kw/litre
1999 HSV GTS LS1 5.7L 300 kw =52.63 kw/litre
2002 HSV LS1 5.7L 260 kw =45.61 kw/litre
2003 HSV LS1 5.7L 285 kw =50 kw/litre
2004 HSV LS2 6.0L 297 kw =49.5 kw/litre
2006 HSV LS2 6.OL 307 kw =51.17 kw/litre
2008 HSV Maloo, Clubsport, Senator 6.2L 317 kW =51.13 kw/litre
2008 HSV GTS, Grange 6.2L 325 kw =52.42 kw/litre


Just sayin'

They are nice numbers Seedy, but as I am certain you know, these numbers alone tell you SFA about the engine on the road.
As has been discussed on here about a million times, the 5.4 boss engines were a really compromised design with very poor power/torque where you needed it and when the heads/cams started to really come on song it hit the long stroke imposed rev cut.... really frustrated me in all the ones I've owned (both auto and manual).

[XLR8 V8]

Just wondering why in the past 12 months HSV have suddenly been reluctant to provide test cars to mags and car forums when ever a S/C miami GT is being tested? have they suddenly become scared? or is there another reason??

Do you actually have a legitimate source that can verify that HSV have turned down providing test cars when asked for, purely based on the fact a S/C GT is being tested at the same time?
If not, this thread is purely speculation on your part and really has no point other than trolling and baiting.

[iamhappy46]

Who is FPV? I lost interest in Ford performance in the 80's and remember something about Tickford(a Ford with all the options 'Tick'ed?) and have never been beaten by any Ford recently. Should I be worried that one of these new XR6T's or Coyote's will overtake me after I have already overtaken them?

Now that is what you call trolling...

[james2]

good thread ,having had a couple of GT's in the distant past i find the new breed of "ford performace cars"a gumbo of if's but's and should have been's.my last two cars are hsv 's and will continue to buy then as i find them to be what i like and require in my daily driver,their have been a plethera of e series tests so why have another just for the sake of having one .i am sure that they will be turned inside out by the car mags when the new model is released.

[Stampy]

Who is FPV? I lost interest in Ford performance in the 80's and remember something about Tickford(a Ford with all the options 'Tick'ed?) and have never been beaten by any Ford recently. Should I be worried that one of these new XR6T's or Coyote's will overtake me after I have already overtaken them?

Now that is what you call trolling...Mate wakeup!!! Turbo6.......Coyote SC V8...........HELLO! Jeeeez!!! My LS3 has been thrashed by both!!

[Solone]

Some good points raised by all.

Ford and holden have some explaining to do.

When we got the 5.7 gen3 it killed all the ford v8s with that old 5.0 they had in the eb to au series. then ford tried to release that 5.4 version which also got spanked by the 5.7 gen3 and the 6.0 in the current ve. ford just couldnt compete from 1999 to 2010. i remember every second month the motor and wheels magazines had a hsv or ss killing a fpv and those old tickford cars. ford basically need to explain 10 years of bad performance in the 5.0 and 5.4 cars.

Now holdens fault is since the ford product came with a supercharger in 2010 there has been almost no direct comparisons with the hsv or ss. from every second month to nothing. it would appear that holden/hsv are running away. ford got spanked fir 10 years but at least they would participate.

[4VMan]

Some good points raised by all.

Ford and holden have some explaining to do.

When we got the 5.7 gen3 it killed all the ford v8s with that old 5.0 they had in the eb to au series. then ford tried to release that 5.4 version which also got spanked by the 5.7 gen3 and the 6.0 in the current ve. ford just couldnt compete from 1999 to 2010. i remember every second month the motor and wheels magazines had a hsv or ss killing a fpv and those old tickford cars. ford basically need to explain 10 years of bad performance in the 5.0 and 5.4 cars.

Now holdens fault is since the ford product came with a supercharger in 2010 there has been almost no direct comparisons with the hsv or ss. from every second month to nothing. it would appear that holden/hsv are running away. ford got spanked fir 10 years but at least they would participate.

Yep, hence why i started this topic, and you are right. It seems FPV were happy to keep providing cars which continually were beaten by HSV offerings yet now that the GT is significantly faster and spanks the LS3 Cars HSV go hiding... At this rate it could be a long couple of years of solo mag tests till we see what VF offers..?

[CHEETR]

from someone who sold HSV for 3years until 4months ago when i left .. i can honestly tell you HSV is struggling very bad, we went from 6months meetings to like twice a month with HSV and from selling 15 cars a month to struggling to reach 6or7..

we were making no margin out of them, some backwards to get rid of them from sitting on our floor plan.

so honestly macca, HSV may be making coin, but the dealers are not and the numbers are no longer there either.

[SM1DY]

When we got the 5.7 gen3 it killed all the ford v8s with that old 5.0 they had in the eb to au series. then ford tried to release that 5.4 version which also got spanked by the 5.7 gen3 and the 6.0 in the current ve. ford just couldnt compete from 1999 to 2010. i remember every second month the motor and wheels magazines had a hsv or ss killing a fpv and those old tickford cars. ford basically need to explain 10 years of bad performance in the 5.0 and 5.4 cars.


I'd be interested to know how you came up with these numbers, because my calculations suggest that it has been around 25yrs of Holden V8 dominance

[4VMan]

Well it didnt take HSV long to retreat did it, will the next model have 1 forward and 6 reverse??!! (thats a joke by the way...) :-)

[HSE2]

Norm I was told you were back posting but I didn't see this coming.

[4VMan]

Norm I was told you were back posting but I didn't see this coming.

LOL Ian, atleast LS1 is a level(er) playing field where you dont have to buy your way around! Seriously though the way Ford/FPV/FPR deal with adversity or defeat is polls apart with the way Holden/HSV/HRT do...

[HSE2]

What are you talking about? What that stunt called the black. More than a few red faces there. So much for chassis deficiency.

[4VMan]

What are you talking about? What that stunt called the black. More than a few red faces there. So much for chassis deficiency.
LOL what were the lap times again?

[HSE2]

No idea, can't remember and wasn't interested. Weren't as good as the red faces that's for sure.

[4VMan]

No idea, can't remember and wasn't interested. Weren't as good as the red faces that's for sure.


Blindsided? or complacency? Either way the reaction has been funny. Personally i would have thought HSV would have stood upto the fight even if theyre out punched 2 to 1 if you include the F6...

[YMK]

from someone who sold HSV for 3years until 4months ago when i left .. i can honestly tell you HSV is struggling very bad, we went from 6months meetings to like twice a month with HSV and from selling 15 cars a month to struggling to reach 6or7..

we were making no margin out of them, some backwards to get rid of them from sitting on our floor plan.

so honestly macca, HSV may be making coin, but the dealers are not and the numbers are no longer there either.

so in other words HSV can no longer provide press cars with a glovebox full of $100 notes as often as they used to?

[4VMan]

so in other words HSV can no longer provide press cars with a glovebox full of $100 notes as often as they used to?


And with the "press pack" fitted....

[Plenty]

You really are that stupid aren't you?
The FG Coyote/F6 and E series HSV have been compared so many times when the Coyote was released it's not funny, you keep dribbling crap about HSV hiding (where's an example btw) but there is only one recent test that i know of that they were not involved, one out of about 10!

What exactly do you want them to compare? It's been done and the HSV wins! i just don't understand what you want? I think you'd be better heading on back to AFF where you can keep idolising the straight line ability of the Coyote, in fact last time the GTS ran against the GT in Motor the GTS was faster all the way to 100Km/h........ nuff said! Now go away!

[4VMan]

You really are that stupid aren't you?
The FG Coyote/F6 and E series HSV have been compared so many times when the Coyote was released it's not funny, you keep dribbling crap about HSV hiding (where's an example btw) but there is only one recent test that i know of that they were not involved, one out of about 10!

What exactly do you want them to compare? It's been done and the HSV wins! i just don't understand what you want? I think you'd be better heading on back to AFF where you can keep idolising the straight line ability of the Coyote, in fact last time the GTS ran against the GT in Motor the GTS was faster all the way to 100Km/h........ nuff said! Now go away!
LOL, its hurting isnt it. Keep denying it, but you cant hide from the facts, seems HSV are trying to though.. :-)

[cashie]

You really are that stupid aren't you?
The FG Coyote/F6 and E series HSV have been compared so many times when the Coyote was released it's not funny, you keep dribbling crap about HSV hiding (where's an example btw) but there is only one recent test that i know of that they were not involved, one out of about 10!

What exactly do you want them to compare? It's been done and the HSV wins! i just don't understand what you want? I think you'd be better heading on back to AFF where you can keep idolising the straight line ability of the Coyote, in fact last time the GTS ran against the GT in Motor the GTS was faster all the way to 100Km/h........ nuff said! Now go away!

Don't bring facts into this thread, the OP just wants to troll without any facts (or he is trying to get his LS1 post count up around his 14,000-odd on FordForums).

[Uwish]

Well why be surprised on LS1.....??
As for reliable...I have owned a E series 1 6lts Clubby and a 6.2 E series Clubbly
Both were in for repair within a month or so.
Gearbox, diff, Axles clutch ect ect ect
So that is a BS arguement saying Holden/HSV are better built.
BOTH FORD AND HOLDEN are POS when build is involved!

In saying that my next car is going to be a
335kw GT, they have great power potential and as Im not a circuit racer
they handle just fine for my needs.
I really would like to see HSV step up and provide a new engine that can compete
with the 5lt S/C. ( With the same price tag!!!!!! )

[Solone]

Im a holden man but id like to see hsv take on the coyote v8. I want to aee if the fpv car is all talk or can back it up.

You must observe the lack of fpv vs hsv reviews at the moment. Back when fors had the 5.4 motors it did seem that ever second month their was a shootout between them.. If holden or ford as much a changed a lightbulb on their models it was time to see who was king (hsv always won)

but I cant ignore the lack if shootouts of recent times since the release of the fpv product.

I used to love reading how the ve ss spanked the xr8 every second week.

[Plenty]

Your level of maturity or lack thereof astounds me!:stupid: Almost all media scribes will pick the HSV over the FPV, so what exactly is meant to hurt?
I provided a great fact huh, kinda hit hard that the new Coyote got outrun to 100kmh by a piss weak N/A pushrod V8.

[YMK]

the old 5.4 is quicker than the ls3 because in ONE test that actually did happen. I know where you're coming from Plenty, the ls3 is very tractable, sounds great, and has plenty of performance, and the hsv is the better vehicle overall.

but that isn't the point of the thread as far as I can tell...

...the last two comparisons where fpv's new gt was compared with other performance vehicles hsv REFUSED to supply cars.
The op is not making this up, it is what the press said. The question isn't over which is or isn't better, the question is why has hsv refused.

[XR4TED]

Tis the festive season after all!!!! I have an E2 Auto GTS with 45000km's with a tune and an OTR on it that is willing to be tested! You talk about put up or shut up... here you go. You go to Motor Magazine and organise my car to be tested against your fancy new GT Variant (must be in NSW as I am offering my car and time to organise). I am a realistic I love my car but its not the best this, fastest that.

4VMan would you support a test against your beloved GT with a Walkinshaw supercharged LS3 instead???? I would like to hear your opinion on this this test!!!

Do you think FPV would shy away????

It comes down to marketing, and in a competitive environment market share is key. You will never know why there is reluctance if any from HSV unless you speak to their marketing team and I am sure they are not going to tell you what their strategy is.

You can jump on as many forums as you like and say what ever you want the fact is and it has been covered before its about Brand loyalty and for most its hard to break. I have always loved Holden and HSV but really liked the F6 Typhoon when it came out but not enough to buy one.

Given the chance I would step out of HSV tomorrow into a C63 if I could afford it and never look back. This is all about being objective and not one eyed!

[Martin_D]

Holden and Ford should be more worried about Hyundai et al, than each other.
Both are on borrowed time here.....would be good to see them try and make it last just a little longer :teach:

[Martin_D]

its about Brand loyalty and for most its hard to break....This is all about being objective and not one eyed!

Contradiction?
The concept of fostering brand loyalty to a multi-national car maker that will go out of their way to gouge at Point Of Sale then try and avoid making warranty repairs when it affects their bottom line is a perverse idea. You are lucky if you are but a number.

Brand loyalty is founded on ignorance rather than passion. It may be admirable to footy team followers, but real car enthusiasts appreciate the car for what it is, in the cold hard light of day, in isolation, rather than the brainwashing of the marketing department, and should be prepared to consider improved substitute options.

[XR4TED]

That was my point Martin, be objective not one eyed and appreciate the car for what it is and that there is something better, faster. There are many HSV supporters out there that will possibly never own second hand or be able to afford to buy new car but through marketing (ignorance or brainwashing) still have the passion for the Brand. Perhaps I didn't get my point across so aptly but I agree whole heartedly with you.

[Evman]

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/This-Thread-Delivers/1/thread-delivers.jpg

[Martin_D]

This thread delivers alright.......for dumbasses :lol:

[Plenty]

AFAIK the only test HSV were absent was in the top speed run down the runway, and they didn't say they refused, they only said they didn't provide a car.

To answer the WHY question, why do they need to? they have done both track and road tests of the cars in multiple variants so they're not hiding, they have proved their point and no longer need to gain value on the name. FPV on that other hand!

[4VMan]

Tis the festive season after all!!!! I have an E2 Auto GTS with 45000km's with a tune and an OTR on it that is willing to be tested! You talk about put up or shut up... here you go. You go to Motor Magazine and organise my car to be tested against your fancy new GT Variant (must be in NSW as I am offering my car and time to organise). I am a realistic I love my car but its not the best this, fastest that.

4VMan would you support a test against your beloved GT with a Walkinshaw supercharged LS3 instead???? I would like to hear your opinion on this this test!!!

Do you think FPV would shy away????

It comes down to marketing, and in a competitive environment market share is key. You will never know why there is reluctance if any from HSV unless you speak to their marketing team and I am sure they are not going to tell you what their strategy is.

You can jump on as many forums as you like and say what ever you want the fact is and it has been covered before its about Brand loyalty and for most its hard to break. I have always loved Holden and HSV but really liked the F6 Typhoon when it came out but not enough to buy one.

Given the chance I would step out of HSV tomorrow into a C63 if I could afford it and never look back. This is all about being objective and not one eyed!

Not sure how relevant it would be testing modified cars such as the walkinshaw LS3 against factory stock cars.... LOL
Where do you draw the line? What would be the point comparing a modified car to a stock one?
In any event i agree about brand loyalty.

[4VMan]

the old 5.4 is quicker than the ls3 because in ONE test that actually did happen. I know where you're coming from Plenty, the ls3 is very tractable, sounds great, and has plenty of performance, and the hsv is the better vehicle overall.

but that isn't the point of the thread as far as I can tell...

...the last two comparisons where fpv's new gt was compared with other performance vehicles hsv REFUSED to supply cars.
The op is not making this up, it is what the press said. The question isn't over which is or isn't better, the question is why has hsv refused.

Thankyou, this is exactly my question, so everyone can calm down, the HSV product is a very good product, so the point im pondering is why wont HSV provide cars for COMPARRISON against the S/C GT products?

[Plenty]

And it's been answered! They have done all the tests needed! It'll be like watching re-runs of a tv show!

[macca33]

Gone around in circles for long enough now.

If you want the answer Mr 4VMan, ring HSV after New Year.

:closed: