Supercharged HSV this year?....I say yes.

[Pickles]

HSV haven't had any "dramatic", really "NEW" stuff for a while now.....I reckon the S/C engine will happen this year.
What do you guys think?
Cheers, Pickles.

[macca33]

HSV haven't had any "dramatic", really "NEW" stuff for a while now.....I reckon the S/C engine will happen this year.
What do you guys think?
Cheers, Pickles.


I think you know more than you are letting on mate! :1peek: ;)

[Hi Octane]

I say they need to

[awesome _vzss]

It would be nice,the ve hsv range could really use a new power plant to spice things up.

[Usdrothek]

I'd love it.

Also having superchargers fitted to factory Holden models would make it easier to fit an aftermarket blower and get it approved.

[BEARWOOD]

If it ever happens i'd say it would be limited to the GTS. I wonder how much it would drive the price of them up but.

[shaneooo]

Damn, already bought the supercharged V8 from the other team as the weekender....oh well not complaining!:hide:

[CLUBRED]

Well, I guess the E3 is the last of the E series (unless the new engine brings E4), why not go out with a bang.. VF to kick off the MY13 towards the end of this year maybe...

[duke5700]

Maybe it will just be added as a tickbox option from Holden when you buy the GTS.. keep it low brow. Oh and by the way you can now order your GTS Supercharged.

[LS1TOY]

Well, I guess the E3 is the last of the E series (unless the new engine brings E4), why not go out with a bang.. VF to kick off the MY13 towards the end of this year maybe...
Maybe not?????

http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=1353558&p_search_no=1&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=54&p_rec_all=75


Jake,

[CLUBRED]

Maybe not?????

http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=1353558&p_search_no=1&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=54&p_rec_all=75


Jake,

E5 is there aswell, I hope we don't get that far...

[Wonky]

Maybe not?????

http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=1353558&p_search_no=1&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=54&p_rec_all=75


Jake,

I got a 404. :(

[iloveholden]

Same as Wonky :(

[XLR8 V8]

"Holden MyLink" sounds like it will be interesting.

Lodged on the 10th Feb 2012 under Class 9

Class: 9 Electronic interface modules sold as an integral part of a motor land vehicle for wired and wireless interface of handheld and mobile electronic devices; apparatus and instruments for the recording, transmission or reproduction of sound or images including photographic film, video tapes, audio tapes, and computer discs; containers and carriers for compact discs; electronic games including video games on disc and tape and programmed video games; computer games; multimedia players; MP3 and other digital format audio players; electronic communication equipment and instruments; telecommunications apparatus and instruments; apparatus for data, storage; hard drives; telecommunication apparatus and instruments; mobile telephones; parts of and accessories for mobile telephones in this class; mobile telephone covers; anti-theft warning and detection apparatus; apparatus and instruments for navigational or communications purposes; motor vehicle navigation systems; motor vehicle location systems; systems and apparatus to automatically notify the deployment of vehicle airbags; computers and parts thereof including micro-chips, and controllers; computer software for use in motor vehicles; computer software for use in the motor vehicle trade and industry; electric and electric components and accessories including electric and electronic components and accessories for motor vehicles; tracking and location devices including tracking and location devices for motor vehicles; global positioning system (GPS) devices; satellite navigational apparatus; advertising, promotion and public relations relating to motor vehicles, sports involving motor vehicles and the motor vehicle industry; wholesaling and retailing services relating to the sale of motor vehicles and parts and accessories for motor vehicles; advertising, promotion and public relations relating to entertainment, cultural and sporting events; maintenance, servicing and repair of motor vehicles; maintenance, servicing and repair of parts and accessories for motor vehicles; roadside emergency services for motor vehicles; installation, maintenance, repair and servicing of vehicle theft detection, notification and tracking systems and apparatus; installation, maintenance, repair and servicing of computer hardware and peripherals; installation, maintenance, repair and servicing of computerised information systems; provision of weather and road hazard information; provision of information about vehicle operational status and warnings, road and weather hazards, maps, landmarks and directions; provision of information to motor vehicle drivers and passengers via global positioning systems and satellite technology; provision of technical assistance relating to motor vehicles

Sounds like a Holden version of Onstar.

[Pickles]

I think you know more than you are letting on mate! :1peek: ;)

Macca....I wish I did......but mate, the truth is HONESTLY......I know nothing....of an "official" nature.
But.....I reckon it will happen......and, geez, why wouldn't it?
Regards, Pickles.

[NIXON]

Ah the annual "Holden will bring out FI hsv's this year" thread...

[Mick1]

If it ever happens i'd say it would be limited to the GTS. I wonder how much it would drive the price of them up but.

Agreed!:yup: Would be a great move for HSV........think its been said more than once on this forum, the models are too similar in output.

[JET-33]

Maybe it will just be added as a tickbox option from Holden when you buy the GTS.. keep it low brow. Oh and by the way you can now order your GTS Supercharged.

wasnt it already a tick box option? or was that only on r8/tourer?

they should have one model that has it standard and the GTS would be perfect. its become too similar to the clubsport/r8 and needs to be spiced up a bit to get it back where it was in the vt/vx days IMO

[JET-33]

Damn, already bought the supercharged V8 from the other team as the weekender....oh well not complaining!:hide:

:slap: :bash: :nutkick: :biggun:

:)

[SilverVH]

Hasn't this already been bought up in the, 'Does HSV understand its market' thread a few months back?

Or has somoene been doing spring cleaning again...? :lol:

[macca33]

Macca....I wish I did......but mate, the truth is HONESTLY......I know nothing....of an "official" nature.
But.....I reckon it will happen......and, geez, why wouldn't it?
Regards, Pickles.


Fair enough mate - cannot blame me for trying! I, too, reckon it is a certainty - it will be interesting how they position the engine within the line-up. I, for one, hope that we again see some exclusivity in the GTS nameplate - it is crying out for it.

cheers

[Pickles]

Can't see this engine as an "option"...I reckon it'll be a stand alone model.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Mick1]

Can't see this engine as an "option"...I reckon it'll be a stand alone model.
Cheers, Pickles.

Pickles, they need you down at Clayton!:yup:................a man of vision!

Macca, he's just a man b4 his time.:diddy:............altho from what i've read, his time was years ago:D;)

[JJW501]

I would love to see a supercharged HSV but I think it needs to be priced competitively.

IF HSV bring a supercharged GTS to the market for $95,000 and I can buy a SC ford for $60,000 how many do you think they will sell?

I think it is time holden and HSV stopped playing games and deliberately restricting engine output eg L98 has superior heads but shitty cam to make it less powerful than LS2. Why?! Market placement in the lineup??? I think that is the type of BS that is sending holden broke.

Why not make a hero car that is cheap and powerful, sells by the 10 thousand, puts smiles on lots of people's faces, and makes holden some much needed $$$$$.

JJW

[1BEAST2NV]

cos it just wont happen ......

[V8 SSV]

Because there will always be people willing to spend the cash...

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

if they do itll cost a shed load and holden needs to be able to sell models with profit...and alot. Something that maybe new to them...but FI would be good...as long as its price competitive with FPVs for a change....we get ripped off over and over...for slower cars with less potential...comon holden...do it

[macca_779]

HSV has no problem selling cars now even with Ford having a better powertrain. It makes no sense financially to sell them cheap and devalue the brand more so than it already is. Sux I know. But that's how it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pickles]

Pickles, they need you down at Clayton!:yup:................a man of vision!

Macca, he's just a man b4 his time.:diddy:............altho from what i've read, his time was years ago:D;)

Ha ha ha....Sounds pretty right to me......particularly the last part of the last line!
Cheers, Pickles.

[steve_t]

I would love to see a supercharged HSV but I think it needs to be priced competitively.

IF HSV bring a supercharged GTS to the market for $95,000 and I can buy a SC ford for $60,000 how many do you think they will sell?

I think it is time holden and HSV stopped playing games and deliberately restricting engine output eg L98 has superior heads but shitty cam to make it less powerful than LS2. Why?! Market placement in the lineup??? I think that is the type of BS that is sending holden broke.

Why not make a hero car that is cheap and powerful, sells by the 10 thousand, puts smiles on lots of people's faces, and makes holden some much needed $$$$$.

JJW

One word answers all - cost

[feistl]

Why not make a hero car that is cheap and powerful, sells by the 10 thousand, puts smiles on lots of people's faces, and makes holden some much needed $$$$$.

JJW

Bit of a slap in the face to all the buyers of HSV who paid top dollar only to have a new "better" model sell for less. Would kill the resale on the older models... Plus apparently a lot of HSV buyers are not first time buyers (EG the guys buying HSV have bought them previously).

As stated, their not having any problems selling cars now so why change the formula?

Plus if the bring out the supercharged version now, what are they going to top it with next year? You cant keep increasing power forever as the driveline wont handle it. Expect only "minor" power increases in the coming years.

[seedyrom]

Too young to remember 1999, when the VT series 2 executive with v8 option ticked, had more power than a VT Series 1 Clubsport?


If anyone isn't keeping up with the current Ford Supercharged V8 + aftermarket intercooler developments, just pray that Ford doesn't come out with an intercooler from the factory.


wIAQSWeO7UA

[steve_t]

Wow!!

10 chars

[Pickles]

Yes, and, very neat too.
However, if HSV use the LSA engine, it will comfortably achieve HSV's objectives, and I will simply say (because this thread ain't about HSV V FPV), that it's power output will be "adequate"....IMHO, of course.
Cheers, Pickles.

[ti0350]

Macca....I wish I did......but mate, the truth is HONESTLY......I know nothing....of an "official" nature.
But.....I reckon it will happen......and, geez, why wouldn't it?
Regards, Pickles.
So what have heard of an "unofficial" nature then.

[macca_779]

Too young to remember 1999, when the VT series 2 executive with v8 option ticked, had more power than a VT Series 1 Clubsport?


If anyone isn't keeping up with the current Ford Supercharged V8 + aftermarket intercooler developments, just pray that Ford doesn't come out with an intercooler from the factory.


wIAQSWeO7UA

It still amazes me people aren't buying more of these things. That engine is absolutely bangin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maccas]

Wow those fpv engines are weapons!! Let's hope hsv stops restricting its engines and makes a true hero car again that is in reach of the general Aussie working public!

[shaneooo]

The very reason why I purchased the GT over the HSV was for the powertrain, I am currently investigating Autotech's upgrades for the beast, especially after reading some of the results over on AFF and for very low cost.

The downside was the suspension to a degree but with some minor upgrades and wider rears I think I will have a pretty good setup.

Just gunna keep the SSV and the daily!!!

[dogsballs]

we talking the LS9 thats been available for a few years?

[the big fist]

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance/809/19211708/10002/-1?parentProductId=1224593

Compared to the price of a supercharger kit and then you sell off your existing motor, this looks like good value !
Stuff waiting for HSV to release a blown model.

[RobSS]

Interesting. The LSA is only $3100 more than an LS3 at the Jegs website.

[mjrandom]

I am definately looking at an upgrade this year. What news on the GTHO or limited edition GT? Not sure whether to lash out for something foreign and give the local stuff a miss for a while. My E2 has been ok but not fussed on any of the E3 options unless there was a sweetener like a force fed engine.

[BEARWOOD]

how would you go trying to drop that straight into, lets say a VE? Obviously freight wouldn't be cheap either.

[shaneooo]

I am definately looking at an upgrade this year. What news on the GTHO or limited edition GT? Not sure whether to lash out for something foreign and give the local stuff a miss for a while. My E2 has been ok but not fussed on any of the E3 options unless there was a sweetener like a force fed engine.

I asked the dealer when I purchased mine, he said don't hold my breath for a GT-HO, but he did expect to see a bigger upgrade later this year or early next year, hopefully incorporating bits and pieces from the GT Concept car.

Honestly they don't need any more power stock, there is plenty, and upgrades are VERY cheap, it's the damn limiters in the torque curve that you feel holding you back.

Go for it mate, it is a nice change going from the SSV everyday to the GT on the weekends, although wish I went the GT-P just for the seats!!!!

I think it would be a great move for HSV to take a similar path with a smaller supercharged V8, if HSV did it I possibly would have gone the GTS with a supercharged V8 instead of the GT.

[Pickles]

So what have heard of an "unofficial" nature then.

Like I said, I have no official info, & as far as "unofficial" goes, well nothing there either.....I'm just saying that IMHO, a supercharged engine will appear this year....I reckon it "should" be the LSA....tried & proven 400+KW engine, readily available....apart from the usual R & D etc...it's really a simple "drop in"......Nothing like anywhere near as complicated as dropping in an LS7.
Maybe it won't be the LSA, maybe HSV will develop their own engine.....but I reckon the LSA's the go....it's already available.
Wait & See?, Pickles.

[macca_779]

Interesting. The LSA is only $3100 more than an LS3 at the Jegs website.

One must ask themselves with all these oem blown engines out there now. How much is harrop and the like making off the kits as cream


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[VYSHSV8]

One must ask themselves with all these oem blown engines out there now. How much is harrop and the like making off the kits as cream


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Answer is simple
SH!TLOADS
But then I don't know there R&D costs

[Pickles]

One must ask themselves with all these oem blown engines out there now. How much is harrop and the like making off the kits as cream


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn fine product though Macca!
Cheers, Pickles.

[Hi Octane]

how would you go trying to drop that straight into, lets say a VE? Obviously freight wouldn't be cheap either.

Its got me wondering.

[planetdavo]

People will always make money out of enthusiasts, be it Harrop, HSV, Autotechnique or whoever. Enthusiasts often think with passion rather than logic. "Logic" would dictate many things available for cars to be an utter waste of hard earned money...
The same "flaws" can be applied to this question Pickles posed. Some will see this engine as absolutely essential, and others will see the current options as entirely adequate.
With HSV's history, they bang out something special every now and then, if the numbers add up. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in something limited edition and pricey. People are dreaming if they expect this engine to be available in something relatively "affordable". See earlier passion rather than logic comment.

[JJW501]

One word answers all - cost

Clearly you have completely missed the point of my post.

JJW

[JJW501]

People will always make money out of enthusiasts, be it Harrop, HSV, Autotechnique or whoever. Enthusiasts often think with passion rather than logic. "Logic" would dictate many things available for cars to be an utter waste of hard earned money...
The same "flaws" can be applied to this question Pickles posed. Some will see this engine as absolutely essential, and others will see the current options as entirely adequate.
With HSV's history, they bang out something special every now and then, if the numbers add up. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in something limited edition and pricey. People are dreaming if they expect this engine to be available in something relatively "affordable". See earlier passion rather than logic comment.

The problem is that Australia does not have enough 'enthusiasts' to keep Holden up and running. HSV is reliant on Holden. Holden goes and HSV has no basis to build on.

Holden/HSV is currently being out gunned by Ford/FPV. I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

The production costs associated with a higher output engine are a minor fraction of the markup we see on the show room floor.

The R&D costs are near zero. The LS9 etc is already designed, tooled, built, reliable and available. You don't have to be a rocket scentist to throw a stronger clutch, off the shelf, some bigger brakes off the shelf..............all these parts are off the shelf items that exist and are ready to be bolted on.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

JJW

[JJW501]

Bit of a slap in the face to all the buyers of HSV who paid top dollar only to have a new "better" model sell for less. Would kill the resale on the older models... Plus apparently a lot of HSV buyers are not first time buyers (EG the guys buying HSV have bought them previously).

As stated, their not having any problems selling cars now so why change the formula?

Plus if the bring out the supercharged version now, what are they going to top it with next year? You cant keep increasing power forever as the driveline wont handle it. Expect only "minor" power increases in the coming years.

What about the slap in the face home owners in the United States copped recently? Should we feel sorry for them and keep buying at inflated prices?

Inflated prices are good in the short term for rcent purchasers but ultimately HSV is pricing themselves out of the market......and then the bubble has to burst.

You could see it a mile off with GTHO's a few years ago.

I am calling BS with the longevity of HSV pricing in the medium term.

We see similar cars for a fraction of the cost in the US and other western markets.

I am sure HSV are making killer profit at the current pricing but am douting its sustainability. In fact, the whole Australian car manufacturing market needs to be rationalised to have any future.

Australian economy is at least 5 years from concrete recovery and now would be a great time for HSV to bust out a grass roots value for money car.

JJW

[macca_779]

What about the slap in the face home owners in the United States copped recently? Should we feel sorry for them and keep buying at inflated prices?

Inflated prices are good in the short term for rcent purchasers but ultimately HSV is pricing themselves out of the market......and then the bubble has to burst.

You could see it a mile off with GTHO's a few years ago.

I am calling BS with the longevity of HSV pricing in the medium term.

We see similar cars for a fraction of the cost in the US and other western markets.

I am sure HSV are making killer profit at the current pricing but am douting its sustainability. In fact, the whole Australian car manufacturing market needs to be rationalised to have any future.

Australian economy is at least 5 years from concrete recovery and now would be a great time for HSV to bust out a grass roots value for money car.

JJW

I disagree. If anything relative to 10 years ago the cars are cheaper and better equipped. A VTII GTS was just shy of 100k on the road back then.


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[bouka]

I wouldn't be putting money on a supercharged HSV this year.

I would be putting money on HSV doing something special for VF. Will be worth the wait in my opinion.

Anyone who thinks the FPV motor will be easily outdone is fooling themselves. It's potential is enormous and if Ford would release the shackles from FPV they would rewrite the rule book on performance sedans. Don't hold your breath for a HO, but limited edition models will be seen from both camps this year. Don't hold your breath for power changes.

VF will be worth the wait if you are a HSV fan. Bring on 2013.

Just my opinion.

[steve_t]

Clearly you have completely missed the point of my post.

JJW


The problem is that Australia does not have enough 'enthusiasts' to keep Holden up and running. HSV is reliant on Holden. Holden goes and HSV has no basis to build on.

Holden/HSV is currently being out gunned by Ford/FPV. I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

The production costs associated with a higher output engine are a minor fraction of the markup we see on the show room floor.

The R&D costs are near zero. The LS9 etc is already designed, tooled, built, reliable and available. You don't have to be a rocket scentist to throw a stronger clutch, off the shelf, some bigger brakes off the shelf..............all these parts are off the shelf items that exist and are ready to be bolted on.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

JJW

Urgh... we have the same discussion on this forum over and over again every 6 months it seems. Anyone who thinks that it's as easy as dropping in an LSA or LS9 plus clutch and brakes without having to go through the expense and rigmarole of testing for ADR's etc is clearly in the dark. The cost needs to be amortised across the units made/sold and if there aren't many, it's not worth the exercise.

Also, while you might not buy a GTS with less power and less potential... than a GT, there are plenty that will and do. We all know that the GT has an amazing engine and is ridiculously good value but are the sales figures reflecting this? And at the end of the day for these companies, that's what counts.

[Pickles]

The problem is that Australia does not have enough 'enthusiasts' to keep Holden up and running. HSV is reliant on Holden. Holden goes and HSV has no basis to build on.

Holden/HSV is currently being out gunned by Ford/FPV. I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

The production costs associated with a higher output engine are a minor fraction of the markup we see on the show room floor.

The R&D costs are near zero. The LS9 etc is already designed, tooled, built, reliable and available. You don't have to be a rocket scentist to throw a stronger clutch, off the shelf, some bigger brakes off the shelf..............all these parts are off the shelf items that exist and are ready to be bolted on.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

JJWYou're wrong...HSV is not being "outgunned"...certainly not by FPV anyway. No more Holden?.....well Falcon & Commodore may both go, but Falcon will definitely go first. LS9.....wrong again....it will probably be LSA, if not locally developed.
Your comment re GTS is simply rubbish.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Carby]

You're wrong...HSV is not being "outgunned"...certainly not by FPV anyway. No more Holden?.....well Falcon & Commodore may both go, but Falcon will definitely go first. LS9.....wrong again....it will probably be LSA, if not locally developed.
Your comment re GTS is simply rubbish.
Cheers, Pickles.

Might want to rethink that - the AFR today quotes a GM exec who says that Commodore is finished within 6 years - has to make cars that the 21st buyer wants.

[Martin_D]

So....if HSV are currently outselling FPV, making more profit, and generating more sales....why do they need to change anything?
Dont fix something that aint broke :teach:

[Pickles]

Might want to rethink that - the AFR today quotes a GM exec who says that Commodore is finished within 6 years - has to make cars that the 21st buyer wants.I'm aware of that....unfortunately........I still say Falcon will go first......but, I hear what you say, & of course, it ain't good news.....for anyone.
Cheers, Pickles.

[NickS]

I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

So you would buy what has been widely reported as the inferior overall package because it has more power ???

I suppose every VT putting out over 336kW is a better car than my C63 too ... they have to be, they have more power ... that's all that matters, isn't it ?

Will HSV release a supercharged car ? Who knows ...

Would I consider buying one ? Nope ... not even remotely interested.

[shaneooo]

So....if HSV are currently outselling FPV, making more profit, and generating more sales....why do they need to change anything?
Dont fix something that aint broke :teach:

You are correct, however in the car industry changes need to be made to keep customers coming back. For example if someone has a E2 GTS with a lease expiring, why would they consider a current GTS, really there is very little difference.

HSV need to keep evolving their products, I think the car itself is great, but imagine it with a FPV V8 setup under the bonnet, people would get excited to change up to a new HSV, particularly the enthusiasts on here

[Stampy]

Well were getting our asses spanked by the F6 and now the GT, but at least I'm happy knowing we have the better overall package!!

[bouka]

Wouldn't want to be the C63 owner who gets spanked by the GT. At least they have the badge. Not much in the way of interior quality although this was addressed in pickles model.

Lol at better overall package from the hsv boys.

[Martin_D]

HSV is better value for money than both the other V8 packages mentioned in this thread IMO :teach:
At least for those that live in the real world.

[NickS]

Wouldn't want to be the C63 owner who gets spanked by the GT. At least they have the badge. Not much in the way of interior quality although this was addressed in pickles model.

Lol at better overall package from the hsv boys.

I'd love to be the C63 owner who gets spanked by the GT ... I get spanked all the time by tossers belting off the line thinking I give a shit, they look the goose when I sit there while they tear off down the road. I have nothing to prove, my car may not be the fastest thing on the road but it's fast enough. If I cared that much I'd have bought a GT-R.

Do you honestly think any AMG owner gives a toss how fast any Ford goes in a straight line ???

Not much in the way of interior quality ? Are you friggen kidding me ? Now your just sounding like a jealous bogan ... :confused:

... and why would you "LOL" at a better overall package ? I'd "LOL" at the car with a million kilowatts that doesn't sell anywhere near as well as the car it supposedly "spanks".

[bouka]

Would you care to elaborate?

You have spent many hours on the HSV product for many years and work on some exotic machines so I am interested.

We all know it is not from a purely performance perspective.

[NickS]

HSV is better value for money than both the other V8 packages mentioned in this thread IMO :teach:
At least for those that live in the real world.

I wouldn't argue with that ...

[NickS]

Would you care to elaborate?

You have spent many hours on the HSV product for many years and work on some exotic machines so I am interested.

We all know it is not from a purely performance perspective.

Your last sentence sums it up ... the same reason every comparison I've read gives the nod to the GTS despite the GT's killer engine.

It's the overall package, the interior quality is light years ahead of anything Holden / Ford / HSV / FPV ... not sure why you think the C63 interior quality isn't much good. The only thing that changed with Pickles' model is that the screen no longer flips up out of the dash, it's integrated into the dash now. Which I agree is an improvement, but it hardly means there's much wrong with mine. The brakes, the seats, the engine, the suspension ... it just all works so well. Clearly they are doing something right as they have put together a package that is selling extremely well. Despite the price ... which includes about $50K tax!

There's no lack of performance, the thing is a beast ... sure there are quicker cars out there but that's not why I bought it.

It's also worth noting that this is he first car I have owned in the last decade that has stayed stock for more than a month ... I've had it for 18 months now and still have zero interest in changing a thing.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with a supercharged HSV ... apologies for the wander!

[bouka]

Sorry Nick, my comment was aimed at Martin.

Having problems with HTC phone and posting.

Must be the bogan in me.

[Martin_D]

... not sure why you think the C63 interior quality isn't much good. The only thing that changed with Pickles' model is that the screen no longer flips up out of the dash, it's integrated into the dash now. Which I agree is an improvement, but it hardly means there's much wrong with mine. The brakes, the seats, the engine, the suspension ... it just all works so well.

I have some gripes about the C-Class interior quality. MB spent much advertising money lauding their tactile feel rubbery plastic coating on the buttons and shifter surround etc. Fact is it peels, and badly in some instances, and MB will not warrant it come hell or high water - at least my dealer didnt want to know about it. That and the plastic crash pad is very susceptible to stains etc. Dont let a young tart in the car with too much make-up on, as if that gets on the dash plastic then kiss it goodbye.

Other than that the 6.2 has a few mechanical issues that I have personally comes across such as noisy/failing lifters, oil consumption, sump gasket leaks, torque converter issues, engine balance problems. Not much different to an LS3 actually....

Lets hope our new 5.5 TT CLS is better! :)

[the big fist]

Your last sentence sums it up ... the same reason every comparison I've read gives the nod to the GTS despite the GT's killer engine.

It's the overall package, the interior quality is light years ahead of anything Holden / Ford / HSV / FPV ... not sure why you think the C63 interior quality isn't much good. The only thing that changed with Pickles' model is that the screen no longer flips up out of the dash, it's integrated into the dash now. Which I agree is an improvement, but it hardly means there's much wrong with mine. The brakes, the seats, the engine, the suspension ... it just all works so well. Clearly they are doing something right as they have put together a package that is selling extremely well. Despite the price ... which includes about $50K tax!

There's no lack of performance, the thing is a beast ... sure there are quicker cars out there but that's not why I bought it.

It's also worth noting that this is he first car I have owned in the last decade that has stayed stock for more than a month ... I've had it for 18 months now and still have zero interest in changing a thing.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with a supercharged HSV ... apologies for the wander!

I think he was replying to Tuna. Totally agree with your comments though, I think it is just a case of little man syndrome.

[bouka]

Had written something similar but am not having much success posting of this phone.

How was amg able to turn mercs version of the cruise into a eurosnobs hardon and why can't hsv/FPV do it? Am sick of hearing about the lack of funds cos the xy GT was a ball tearer and it was the early seventies. That car was far more competitive that todays hot Aussie cars.

[bouka]

Lol at little man syndrome. How about you post something that can add to the conversation rather than swipes on the internet.

[jaykay]

What is this thread about ? :confused:

[Martin_D]

What is this thread about ? :confused:

I will give you a hint -
Not : MAF vs MAFLESS
Not : WHAT IS THA BEST CAR POLISH?
Not : MY QLD BLOWA MAKES 9000kw
Not : MY CAM ONLY GETS 5.1L/100KM
and Not WHO IS THE BESTEREST TUNERER?

More Like -
HSV make the best Aussie Sports sedan
FPV make the most power if you like the dynamics of an Amish cart
AMG is good if you get the matching bag and shoes

[bouka]

That is absolute gold Martin.

Priceless.

[jaykay]

More Like -
HSV make the best Aussie Sports sedan
FPV make the most power if you like the dynamics of an Amish cart
AMG is good if you get the matching bag and shoes

Thanks for that...it has justified my purchase :teach:

Now bring on a supercharged version :yahoo:

[bouka]

What do we want in the VF GTS, other than a ripper motor. FPV got the motor right, and HSV have to respond (and they will and it will be worth the wait). What else, does the GTS need to step up to another level? Your thoughts.

[jaykay]

What do we want in the VF GTS, other than a ripper motor. FPV got the motor right, and HSV have to respond (and they will and it will be worth the wait). What else, does the GTS need to step up to another level? Your thoughts.

As the title suggests !!!

[bouka]

It's not going to happen this John. HSV owners will have to hide for a little while longer.

[jaykay]

It's not going to happen this John. HSV owners will have to hide for a little while longer.

I don't mind..not going to move my GTS this year anyway so if it is 2013 I am cool with that...

[steve_t]

What do we want in the VF GTS, other than a ripper motor. FPV got the motor right, and HSV have to respond (and they will and it will be worth the wait). What else, does the GTS need to step up to another level? Your thoughts.

To go on a diet

[bouka]

On the cards Steve, I reckon.

[Martin_D]

To go on a diet

AWD driveline, DCT transmission.....there I go again! :eek:
Davo, oh Davo get in here quick before the peasants like me revolt :lol:
(No doubt when PD gets back from picking up his bosses foot long on Italian herb and cheese BLT with Chipotle sauce he will respond)

[NickS]

What is this thread about ? :confused:

Russian Brides ... Ford vs Holden ... Labor vs Liberal ... Planet Davo vs The Forum ... Julia Gillard ... Carbon Tax ...

Have I missed anything ??? :confused:

[the big fist]

Lol at little man syndrome. How about you post something that can add to the conversation rather than swipes on the internet.

I did, I posted up about fitting the price of an LSA motor and the comparison in price to the Harrop kits. There's your supercharged HSV which the thread is about.
Whereas you are taking swipes about c63 owners and how you'd hate to be them when they get dragged off at the lights.
Glass houses mate.

[NickS]

What do we want in the VF GTS, other than a ripper motor. FPV got the motor right, and HSV have to respond (and they will and it will be worth the wait). What else, does the GTS need to step up to another level? Your thoughts.

Better gearbox, step up in interior & exterior quality, a few more wanky gadgets like keyless entry.

That'll do me ...

[bouka]

The thread is about HSV fitting a superchsrged motor from factory with factory warranty. Whilst I see what you are saying about retro fitting an lsa, this needs to be done at factory.

Funny how the hsv guys said for years that the performance kills FPV v8. FPV always had
the better package though (handling and suspension/chasis) according to the mags.

Now that the hsv gets spanked, overall package is better and more important.

My thoughts on the c63 are well known, and I never took a swipe at any specific owner. It was a general comment. Factual as well.

[bouka]

Some valid points Nick. What specifically about build quality and what did you notice most from hsv to merc?

[NickS]

Funny how the hsv guys said for years that the performance kills FPV v8. FPV always had
the better package though (handling and suspension/chasis) according to the mags.

So when the FPV supposedly had the better package you drove an HSV ...

Now the HSV is supposedly the better package you drive an FPV ...

:confused:

I can at least blame one eyed brand loyalty for my decisions ... you just seem to be buying the wrong car at the wrong time!

:stick:

[NickS]

Some valid points Nick. What specifically about build quality and what did you notice most from hsv to merc?

Paint quality is probably the biggest difference ... when bird shit lands on an HSV no matter how fast you wash it off you get a shadow / outline where it dried. My HSVs have always been prone to light scratching from the weekly wash / dry too, the Merc is washed weekly and has been since new, it basically has no marks on it anywhere, the paint looks like new.

Every HSV I've had has had small quality issues throughout, lose trim, plugs falling out of boot liners, noises / squeaks in the dash, doors, vents, speakers etc. These things have never particularly worried me as every car I have ever owned has suffered the same things throughout it's life. The Merc is 18 months old now and has done 15,000 kms ... it's still like new. No marks in the paint, no marks on the trim, no lose bits of bodywork or trim, no noises in the cabin anywhere. Granted it's still pretty new ... but they would have started by now in an HSV.

As I said ... it doesn't particularly worry me, with an HSV you're paying for other things ... but it'd be nice if it improved.

[bouka]

I buy the quickest local performance car manufactured. Always have.

I am not blinded by brand loyalty or status. When hsv had the quickest cars, I owned them. And lots of them. As soon as FPV had the quicker car, I bought it.

I don't really see your point but have answered your querie. Very simply and concisely.

[macca_779]

IMO the mechanical components of the "overall package" weigh very heavily to an enthusiast. That why I would take an FPV over a HSV too if buying new


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shaneooo]

I buy the quickest local performance car manufactured. Always have.

I am not blinded by brand loyalty or status. When hsv had the quickest cars, I owned them. And lots of them. As soon as FPV had the quicker car, I bought it.

I don't really see your point but have answered your querie. Very simply and concisely.

Spot on, same here!!!!

HSV may provide a better package according to some from the factory, however as I have previously noted, it doesn't take much to fine tune the FPV ride and handling, and the same can be said for the HSV.

I never buy a car based on car mag reviews about who has a better package, I more consider new HSV's and FPV's as a starting point for a car to be modified and at the moment for me the FPV is a better car to play with.

[bouka]

I agree with your comments about the paint and build quality. The FPV is even more poorly built.

If the local guys would address this it would go a long way to stop me considering other manufacturers. I have always supported the local market and am fortunate enough to be able to consider the amg and m cars but value for money and tightassness and a Passion for buying local has seen me stay in the Holden / Ford camp.

Would you consider a better built local hsv product or is it a case of once you go euro you can't come back. That is a genuine question. And one hsv/FPV need to ask themselves.

[bouka]

Couldn't agree more macca.

[NickS]

I buy the quickest local performance car manufactured. Always have.

I am not blinded by brand loyalty or status. When hsv had the quickest cars, I owned them. And lots of them. As soon as FPV had the quicker car, I bought it.

I don't really see your point but have answered your querie. Very simply and concisely.

No real point ... just being a smart arse, hence the :stick: at the end.

I can see why you buy what you buy and it probably makes more sense than sticking with one brand ... but I'll never buy a Ford, they just do nothing for me, been that way since I was old enough to know what a car was!

However illogical that may seem!

[Roonstain]

If I was buying new, I would get a HSV over a FPV
The ergonomics of the FPV product just dont work for me - and the FG chassis hasn't impressed me in my experience with them

Also, a single cam motor represents something easier to work on for me, which is part of buying a car - the modern day campfire to gather mates around to work on.

[bouka]

Good to see Nick. Tongue has been firmly planted in cheek for most it.

It has gotten me through the morning and has served a purpose.

Although the info provided has been accurate. No charged hsv this year. It will come though and it will be bloody good.

Then both FPV and hsv will be quicker than the c63.

:hide:

[Samurai Trader]

Paint quality is probably the biggest difference ... when bird shit lands on an HSV no matter how fast you wash it off you get a shadow / outline where it dried. My HSVs have always been prone to light scratching from the weekly wash / dry too, the Merc is washed weekly and has been since new, it basically has no marks on it anywhere, the paint looks like new.

Every HSV I've had has had small quality issues throughout, lose trim, plugs falling out of boot liners, noises / squeaks in the dash, doors, vents, speakers etc. These things have never particularly worried me as every car I have ever owned has suffered the same things throughout it's life. The Merc is 18 months old now and has done 15,000 kms ... it's still like new. No marks in the paint, no marks on the trim, no lose bits of bodywork or trim, no noises in the cabin anywhere. Granted it's still pretty new ... but they would have started by now in an HSV.

As I said ... it doesn't particularly worry me, with an HSV you're paying for other things ... but it'd be nice if it improved.

my merc is a piece of shit.... both interior door handles have broken, centre console is jammed shut, sunvisor keeps falling down, it constantly loses the rear number plate light.. and the climate control does that thing were it cant decide were to send the air do it just keeps opening and closing the vents... you know.

and the funny thing is the passenger interior door handle went the same time as the drivers - although it had been used heaps less..

i must admit though in the merc you only notice the diference when you need it.. almost hit a bull the other week at night travelling at 100k/h... i dont think i would have been able to dodge it in the clubby.. the way the merc reacts when stessed is amazing.. still a massive piece of shit thought. should have bought a grange..

[NickS]

still a massive piece of shit thought. should have bought a grange..

Funny you say that ... I've had the C63 for 18 months and not one single thing has come even close to going wrong on it ... except the bloody tyres wear out too fast, but I can live with that.

I've had a Grange for 3 years ... I'd need a few hours to list the amount of things that have been fixed under warranty on that! Still ... love the car anyway.

[NickS]

Would you consider a better built local hsv product or is it a case of once you go euro you can't come back.

Absolutely I'd consider it ... we still have an HSV and have a replacement on order.

As long as I have the kids to cart around I'll be doing it in an HSV ... IMO nothing comes close for the size, power, equipment etc. Except maybe an FPV ... but we've already covered that!

:D

[NickS]

Then both FPV and hsv will be quicker than the c63.

:hide:

Without a doubt ... also without a doubt is the fact that I'll still have a smile on my face every time I start up the C63.

I can't really explain it, every car I've ever owned I've been bored with within 6 months (except the Coupe 4 ... but if that had stayed stock it'd be the same) ... not the C63, not even close.

[steve_t]

Sorry to interrupt lads but how much is a new C63 over there and how much is a new GTS?

[NickS]

Sorry to interrupt lads but how much is a new C63 over there and how much is a new GTS?

C63 ~ $150K and GTS ~ $80K

[Martin_D]

C63 ~ $150K and GTS ~ $80K

And the GTS is better than half as good as a C63 hence great value.
The good news is both start out as a basic Taxi body in their home countries :)

[BEARWOOD]

Its funny how many things we say we want & need in the new HSV's and list there there problems but still sign the dotted line when we get none of them. If they keep selling enough of them they will think they are doing fine and why would they change anything. They will keep doing the minor updates etc because to most people thats all thats required, its only a limited bunch that require a supercharged 6.2Ltr car. Id like to see Holden/HSV concentrate on quality interiors for a while, then add a blower.

[FOON]

HSV should team up with Nissan, like the 80's, and drop the V6TT out of the R35 GTR in a commodore, now that would be something special in RWD.

[Martin_D]

HSV should team up with Nissan, like the 80's, and drop the V6TT out of the R35 GTR in a commodore, now that would be something special in RWD.

And it would probably be more expensive than a GTR....
Remeber HSV wanted (and got) GTR money for an Omega with a crate 427 in it :teach:

[FOON]

I just figured with all the pie in the sky stuff in this thread already I'd just throw some extra fuel on that fire :hide:

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

Absolutely I'd consider it ... we still have an HSV and have a replacement on order.

As long as I have the kids to cart around I'll be doing it in an HSV ... IMO nothing comes close for the size, power, equipment etc. Except maybe an FPV ... but we've already covered that!

:Das long as the kids dont mind being late every where haha

[Samurai Trader]

hahaha. yeah thats life we always want what we dont have...

maybe i went too far with the massive piece of shit thing...

[Pickles]

No need to ruin the thread guys....the question was simple...will there be a supercharged car?.....I still say yes.....and I still say this year.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Spoolin]

I don't see why they would? They're still moving enough stock of them, I'm sure a token "supposed' increase in power and another piece of tacked on plastic will suffice for the masses.

Take note of what I said...'masses' not enthusiasts who want everything yet don't have the coin to buy new.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

I don't see why they would? They're still moving enough stock of them, I'm sure a token "supposed' increase in power and another piece of tacked on plastic will suffice for the masses.

Take note of what I said...'masses' not enthusiasts who want everything yet don't have the coin to buy new.yep it does tend to be HSVs style lately...shares in plastic bits haha...but yeah...why the hell would they...surely nothing like that at least untill the all new model. I remember when the GT355 came out...EVERYONE here said chargers are wank..we love our NA v8s thanks...or along those lines. Now everyones seems to be chomping at the bit for a factory GT wanna be. I say stay NA anyway

[tunga]

So you would buy what has been widely reported as the inferior overall package because it has more power ???

I suppose every VT putting out over 336kW is a better car than my C63 too ... they have to be, they have more power ... that's all that matters, isn't it ?

Will HSV release a supercharged car ? Who knows ...

Would I consider buying one ? Nope ... not even remotely interested.

and why would that be ?

[FOON]

Nick has an HSV, he has a new one on order to replace it, but I don't think he will pay a premium price for a supercharged version I assume he's saying.

[NickS]

Nick has an HSV, he has a new one on order to replace it, but I don't think he will pay a premium price for a supercharged version I assume he's saying.

Pretty much ... at $80K I see value in the GTS and it has plenty of power for what we use it for, more than enough.

At > $100K (???) for the same thing with more power, just makes no sense to me. I'm not a fan of superchargers either ... just don't really interest me.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

Pretty much ... at $80K I see value in the GTS and it has plenty of power for what we use it for, more than enough.

At > $100K (???) for the same thing with more power, just makes no sense to me. I'm not a fan of superchargers either ... just don't really interest me.

everyones entitled to there own opinion...despite how uneducated it may be..haha sorry. FI is the future and its here all ready...no use playin catch up all the time...jump on the band wagon

[hurricane]

I hope they make one real quick because in about 5yrs from now we wont have a holden, as i am a holden supporter i hope this will not be the case. In saying that when HSV does bring it out it will go like the clappers, well thats my prediction anyway bring it on HSV.

[the big fist]

everyones entitled to there own opinion...despite how uneducated it may be..haha sorry. FI is the future and its here all ready...no use playin catch up all the time...jump on the band wagon

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?154462-*Coupe-4-stroker-turbo-tune

OOPS !!!

[steve_t]

everyones entitled to there own opinion...despite how uneducated it may be..haha sorry. FI is the future and its here all ready...no use playin catch up all the time...jump on the band wagon


http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?154462-*Coupe-4-stroker-turbo-tune

OOPS !!!

Hahaha!! Yeah, Nick! Jump aboard already would ya? :lmao:

[Daniel996]

No need to ruin the thread guys....the question was simple...will there be a supercharged car?.....I still say yes.....and I still say this year.
Cheers, Pickles.

I reckon you are right - my thoughts are toward the end of the year they will release a "special" supercharged model. But it will be to help clean out the last of VE stock / keep sales figures up, prior to introducing the VF. Personally I'm hoping for a VF that is ~150kg lighter than the VE, and supercharged.

Cheers
Dan

[1BEAST2NV]

and it will be priced through the roof.

[adr8]

My guess would be we wont see S/C HSV with the VE, especially with VF to be introduced next year. There has already been reports of VF test mules hitting the streets (according to the Holden C.E.O Mike Devereaux) so Holden/HSV would be concentrating on getting ready for the release of the VF.
And if you go by what the motor mags are saying that the VF will have a S/C 5.5 litre who would want to buy a VF if the VE had a S/C 6.2 litre
as the saying goes "there is no replacement for displacement..."

[macca_779]

My guess would be we wont see S/C HSV with the VE, especially with VF to be introduced next year. There has already been reports of VF test mules hitting the streets (according to the Holden C.E.O Mike Devereaux) so Holden/HSV would be concentrating on getting ready for the release of the VF.
And if you go by what the motor mags are saying that the VF will have a S/C 5.5 litre who would want to buy a VF if the VE had a S/C 6.2 litre
as the saying goes "there is no replacement for displacement..."

Tell that to Ford, BMW, Mercedes Benz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve_t]

My guess would be we wont see S/C HSV with the VE, especially with VF to be introduced next year. There has already been reports of VF test mules hitting the streets (according to the Holden C.E.O Mike Devereaux) so Holden/HSV would be concentrating on getting ready for the release of the VF.
And if you go by what the motor mags are saying that the VF will have a S/C 5.5 litre who would want to buy a VF if the VE had a S/C 6.2 litre
as the saying goes "there is no replacement for displacement..."

But if the VF SC 5.5 has more power and better fuel economy due to direct injection as well as shedding many kg of lard, who would buy a SC 6.2L? Add new styling and an updated interior... How old is the VE design now?

[1BEAST2NV]

VE has run its coarse...... they've had enough time burning the same model (06)

its time to step it up NOT make another "SERIES".......

[adr8]

Tell that to Ford, BMW, Mercedes Benz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am talking about going from S/C 6.2 to S/C 5.5 if they were to introduce it in VE like the thread is asking... Ford and Merc went from N/A to S/C hence the downsizing in cubes

[1BEAST2NV]

BUT if u already own a VE 6.2 S/C, would u sell it to buy a 5.5ltr S/C ???

[Stampy]

Ok Guy's, I have just gone from my LS3 6M Maloo to a FPV GT 335 and to be honesst if you are paying under 100K you won't get any better than this..........Honest! they are AWESOME!

[steve_t]

Ok Guy's, I have just gone from my LS3 6M Maloo to a FPV GT 335 and to be honesst if you are paying under 100K you won't get any better than this..........Honest! they are AWESOME!

But will that be the case IF they release a SC VE or WHEN they release the SC VF?

[Magnum9]

You would if it was a more efficient engine like in the FPV. The Ford engine makes more power than the LSA on similar boost when tuned properly.

[Stampy]

Yes, I have all the Tune Knowlege to go yet when she is out of warranty........Man I'm looking forward to that. at the moment these things are manic standard!!

[macca_779]

I am talking about going from S/C 6.2 to S/C 5.5 if they were to introduce it in VE like the thread is asking... Ford and Merc went from N/A to S/C hence the downsizing in cubes

What about Ford US. the new 5.0 is miles better than the 5.4 even in NA form


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Magnum9]

An easy 600rwhp, that was a record at Summernats not too many years ago.

[adr8]

What about Ford US. the new 5.0 is miles better than the 5.4 even in NA form


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

thats because the 5.4 was rubbish had no power above 5000 rpm

[Stampy]

Don't know about rubbish the 315 wasn't bad!

[288vxgts300]

It would be great if the VE was fitted with a S/C 6.2 to end a great model that is becoming tired,then the VF would definatly be what we are wanting,as it has to be better than that.

[Pickles]

You would if it was a more efficient engine like in the FPV. The Ford engine makes more power than the LSA on similar boost when tuned properly.

Don't be concerned mate,....."IF" HSV decides to use the LSA engine, it will be absolutely "adequate"......have no worries at all about that.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Magnum9]

I agree, any blown v8 is adequate, whether it is available in a HSV for $60k is another question.

[Pickles]

I agree, any blown v8 is adequate, whether it is available in a HSV for $60k is another question.

It will be PLENTY more than $60K....and it will NOT be a "mainstream" model.
Cheers, Pickles.

[1BEAST2NV]

thinks u no more than u care to admit :)

[sdtash]

Surely a S/C Holden would have to be priced competively against the S/C Ford, even if it is in the top spec HSV.

[macca33]

Surely a S/C Holden would have to be priced competively against the S/C Ford, even if it is in the top spec HSV.


Hardly - people are paying more to HSV for an N/A car now, why would a FI car be cheaper??? One thing HSV has in this market amongst Aussie car enthusiasts, is cachet - like it or not - they are still winning the Holden (HSV) vs Ford (FPV) battle on the popularity / sales lots.

cheers

[Pickles]

Hardly - people are paying more to HSV for an N/A car now, why would a FI car be cheaper??? One thing HSV has in this market amongst Aussie car enthusiasts, is cachet - like it or not - they are still winning the Holden (HSV) vs Ford (FPV) battle on the popularity / sales lots.

cheers

Agree....HSV are still killing FPV, & by most counts, the product is still the better package than the FPV item.
IF, the S/C car appears, no, it will NOT be cheap...but hopefully, & I'd be very confident that, it will be good....VERY good.
Cheers, Pickles.

[BEARWOOD]

Agree....HSV are still killing FPV, & by most counts, the product is still the better package than the FPV item.
IF, the S/C car appears, no, it will NOT be cheap...but hopefully, & I'd be very confident that, it will be good....VERY good.
Cheers, Pickles.

So will it be a limited built type thing or will it just be so expensive that hardly anyone will be able to afford one?
You either know something or like people to think you know....which is it?

[Pickles]

So will it be a limited built type thing or will it just be so expensive that hardly anyone will be able to afford one?
You either know something or like people to think you know....which is it?

Bear....I'm glad I'm so "convincing"!!!.....but mate....honestly...I know NOTHING....I ain't got no inside info at all.
What I've said here, is simply what I reckon HSV will do.....and what I reckon HSV will do, is a limited build, fairly pricey, supercharged car, before the end of this year....and I reckon they will all sell.
Cheers, Pickles.

[BEARWOOD]

Fair enough then. I hope your right, even though i wont be buying one as i reckon the price would be crazy.

[korrupt]

Are we talking about the rumoured 25th anniversary model with the LSA engine ? Apparently that will drop later in the year.

[macca33]

Are we talking about the rumoured 25th anniversary model with the LSA engine ? Apparently that will drop later in the year.


All 'best guess' indicators - from people who know quite a bit about HSV's mindset - are that an LSA-engined 'special' will be out in the last part of this year for the 25th Anniversary. I accept that Pickles has no 'inside' information, but he does have a fair idea about how the HSV boffins think, so I reckon this car is on and I reckon that it'd cost at least $100-110k. Whether the market accepts this remains to be seen, but at least it will be a 'special' with the bark to match the stickers.

cheers

[Pickles]

All 'best guess' indicators - from people who know quite a bit about HSV's mindset - are that an LSA-engined 'special' will be out in the last part of this year for the 25th Anniversary. I accept that Pickles has no 'inside' information, but he does have a fair idea about how the HSV boffins think, so I reckon this car is on and I reckon that it'd cost at least $100-110k. Whether the market accepts this remains to be seen, but at least it will be a 'special' with the bark to match the stickers.

cheers

Yes Macca, that pretty much sums up my "thoughts".......on all accounts.
I'd be interested to see what Davo thinks about all this....might send him a P.M.!
Cheers, Pickles.

[BEARWOOD]

so realisticly there wont be many of them around if this is how it pans out. I think the original post was more to do with the run of the mill HSV's not a one off special edition. I think they would be too expensive either way whether it be a 1 off or a full production of them.

[Jag530G]

All 'best guess' indicators - from people who know quite a bit about HSV's mindset - are that an LSA-engined 'special' will be out in the last part of this year for the 25th Anniversary. I accept that Pickles has no 'inside' information, but he does have a fair idea about how the HSV boffins think, so I reckon this car is on and I reckon that it'd cost at least $100-110k. Whether the market accepts this remains to be seen, but at least it will be a 'special' with the bark to match the stickers.

cheers

And the gnashing of teeth you hear are the W427 owners watching their resale take a dive. No, I am not a W427 hater, love the car and am glad for anyone who owns one. Just wait to 2018 when the Commodore goes out of production, then you will be in clover.

Cheers, Matthew

[288vxgts300]

This went up for sale 2 weeks ago.

http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle/158721-hsv-w427

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

if hsv releases a special edition sc unit this year and people buy it...they are all suckers throwing moey away...and holden know it. I mean if they intend on releasing the VF in sc form imagine what that would do to a limited edition EXPENSIVE hsv just before launch.OMG ouch.
Its also hard to imagine holden able to afford the Rnd on a sc specd model....maybe thats what the 300mil they are after in grants at the moment??? I still find it amazing how many people all of a sudden are crying out for a sc model after years of cubes rule blah blah.
To be honest the sc VF cant come soon enough...im suprized it took holden this long considering how good and useable the xr6ts F6s and Gt335s have been. My bro has a 335 and it KILLS my R8...in allll ways except seating position and less traction(but that one ill give him with the power his makes)Like i said before...FI is the future.....get on board haha i will

[tunga]

Hsv haven't had to take a back seat to ford very often ,perhaps at the moment ,but i suspect not for much longer ,the supercharged HSV when it comes will be worth the wait ,and even if it does cost 100 grand ,look at what you pay for the mercs and bmws ,i think a car like HSV will give you with a blower will be unreal ,and great value for money

[BEARWOOD]

Hsv haven't had to take a back seat to ford very often ,perhaps at the moment ,but i suspect not for much longer ,the supercharged HSV when it comes will be worth the wait ,and even if it does cost 100 grand ,look at what you pay for the mercs and bmws ,i think a car like HSV will give you with a blower will be unreal ,and great value for money

So are you saying that if HSV release a supercharged car @ 100k they will be on par with Mercs etc an be better value than a 65k FPV GT?

[701let]

if hsv releases a special edition sc unit this year and people buy it...they are all suckers throwing moey away...and holden know it. I mean if they intend on releasing the VF in sc form imagine what that would do to a limited edition EXPENSIVE hsv just before launch.OMG ouch.
Its also hard to imagine holden able to afford the Rnd on a sc specd model....maybe thats what the 300mil they are after in grants at the moment??? I still find it amazing how many people all of a sudden are crying out for a sc model after years of cubes rule blah blah.
To be honest the sc VF cant come soon enough...im suprized it took holden this long considering how good and useable the xr6ts F6s and Gt335s have been. My bro has a 335 and it KILLS my R8...in allll ways except seating position and less traction(but that one ill give him with the power his makes)Like i said before...FI is the future.....get on board haha i will

I thought you also said in another thread that 'your r8' was 'long gone' ...

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

I thought you also said in another thread that 'your r8' was 'long gone' ...

Yeah sad to say it is...sorry to see it gone in many ways but wanted to upgrade with something newer but now cant afford a new hsv.
And all this talk about the new sc hsvs being near on 100k makes me want to cry...surely itd have to be a big stepup from what it is now then justa new engine to carry it. But then the 335 gt is carried by its engine haha...but its well under 70k

[701let]

Yeah sad to say it is...sorry to see it gone in many ways but wanted to upgrade with something newer but now cant afford a new hsv.
And all this talk about the new sc hsvs being near on 100k makes me want to cry...surely itd have to be a big stepup from what it is now then justa new engine to carry it. But then the 335 gt is carried by its engine haha...but its well under 70k

Yeah must have been sad for you. If hsv release a sc model and it is 100k well really if you can afford 70k then most probably you can afford 100k if you look at it that way. Bearing in mind the Ve is a better platform in all other ways..

What's the saying 'good things aren't cheap and cheap things aren't good'

[Jag530G]

Yeah sad to say it is...sorry to see it gone in many ways but wanted to upgrade with something newer but now cant afford a new hsv.
And all this talk about the new sc hsvs being near on 100k makes me want to cry...surely itd have to be a big stepup from what it is now then justa new engine to carry it. But then the 335 gt is carried by its engine haha...but its well under 70k

A 410KW LSA would be a big step up. Certainly compared with a 325KW GTS or 335KW FPV. And as for the argument about the cheapness of an aftermarket tuned up FPV doesn't really wash. A 410KW 3yr/100,000km factory warrantied car is simply worth more. Judging by the power that a tune can get out of any LS motor I would suspect the aftermarket guys could get a lot more out of an LSA if they want, you benefit from starting from a higher base if a tune tickles your fancy.

Though I won't be in the market for it, I do hope for a price north of $100K they use the Senator Signature as a base with the Calais V level interior spec.

Cheers, Matthew

[Jag530G]

What's the saying 'good things aren't cheap and cheap things aren't good'

When I was studying Engineering a lecturer told us of a variation of the saying you quote. It is particularly relevent to project management "Quick. Cheap. Good. Pick any two." If it is quick and cheap it won't be any good. If it is quick and good it won't be cheap and if it is cheap and good it won't be quick.

Cheers, Matthew

[Spoolin]

How many people in this thread can honestly say that, right here right now they can and are prepared to spend 100K on a HSV?

Honestly, 100k on any local produce is nothing short of a joke. You're starting to talk BMW 335 territory, now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.

[Jag530G]

How many people in this thread can honestly say that, right here right now they can and are prepared to spend 100K on a HSV?

Honestly, 100k on any local produce is nothing short of a joke. You're starting to talk BMW 335 territory, now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.

Thats why I think it would be a very limited build, circa 100 cars tops I reckon. HSV only sold 130 odd (+/- a few) W427s when there was little domestic competition at the time. HSV dealers seemed to struggle selling Coupe 4s, VT2-VY GTS sedans/coupes, VX Senator 300s for $95K back in 2000-2004, given a few months they seemed to be advertised with rather large discounts, which sure as hell didn't do resale any favours.

Cheers, Matthew

[macca33]

How many people in this thread can honestly say that, right here right now they can and are prepared to spend 100K on a HSV?

Honestly, 100k on any local produce is nothing short of a joke. You're starting to talk BMW 335 territory, now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.


People spend $250k+ on a XY Phase 3 GTHO that is now around 30 years old - similarly they spend big coin for a Bathurst Monaro, or A9X Torrie. Putting aside the obvious racing heritage the older cars share (clearly, the current ones do not) - why would $100k+ for a HSV be silly - remembering, also, that the C4B cars were all $90-100k propositions back in 2000-2004?

cheers

[BEARWOOD]

People spend $250k+ on a XY Phase 3 GTHO that is now around 30 years old - similarly they spend big coin for a Bathurst Monaro, or A9X Torrie. Putting aside the obvious racing heritage the older cars share (clearly, the current ones do not) - why would $100k+ for a HSV be silly - remembering, also, that the C4B cars were all $90-100k propositions back in 2000-2004?

cheers

What does the price of a 30 year old Falcon have to do with a new generation HSV? If they want to charge over 100k surely it would have to be more than just an engine swap.

[Spoolin]

Putting aside the obvious racing heritage the older cars share (clearly, the current ones do not) - why would $100k+ for a HSV be silly
cheers

You answered your own question, racing heritage is where it's at and the fact new cars are not in the same league. Remember the muscle cars you talk of were near worthless 30 years ago, it's only recently they have become popular with many baby boomers. You'd probably be better off waiting 5 to 10 years when they're resale prices have dropped then hold onto it for 20-30 years when they don't exist to possibly cash up.

[Pickles]

How many people in this thread can honestly say that, right here right now they can and are prepared to spend 100K on a HSV?

Honestly, 100k on any local produce is nothing short of a joke. You're starting to talk BMW 335 territory, now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.
Ha Ha Ha....Before you posted, you should have told everyone you were blind.....because you must be, because you obviously have been unable to read the relative sales figures for HSV & FPV......actually exactly the reverse is the case. Check sales figures before you make ridiculous comments like that.
Even a renowned "Ford Man" John Bowe said in an article, he couldn't believe how good a package is the E3GTS. No doubt Miami ain't a ripper engine....no doubt at all.....and yes FPV have FINALLY got a good engine......and in a straight line, it may be slightly quicker than the HSV product.....but so what....there's a lot more to ANY car than driving it in a straight line, and as an overall package, the HSV car is light years ahead.
Anyway, get someone to find the sales figures for you.
Cheers, Pickles.

[NickS]

How many people in this thread can honestly say that, right here right now they can and are prepared to spend 100K on a HSV?

Honestly, 100k on any local produce is nothing short of a joke. You're starting to talk BMW 335 territory, now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.

Well said mate ... that's the reason I wouldn't be interested. The GTS has enough power IMO, I wouldn't pay for more power if the rest of the package is the same.

I would however disagree that "FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses" ... the GTS is still regarded as the better "package" and that's all that I'm interested in. Seriously, how fast can you go on Sydney roads anyway!

[Spoolin]

Ha Ha Ha....Before you posted, you should have told everyone you were blind.....because you must be, because you obviously have been unable to read the relative sales figures for HSV & FPV......actually exactly the reverse is the case. Check sales figures before you make ridiculous comments like that.
Even a renowned "Ford Man" John Bowe said in an article, he couldn't believe how good a package is the E3GTS. No doubt Miami ain't a ripper engine....no doubt at all.....and yes FPV have FINALLY got a good engine......and in a straight line, it may be slightly quicker than the HSV product.....but so what....there's a lot more to ANY car than driving it in a straight line, and as an overall package, the HSV car is light years ahead.
Anyway, get someone to find the sales figures for you.
Cheers, Pickles.

I'm confused...

What did I state about sales figures?
What did I say about John Bowe's comments?
Since when hasn't the Miami been a ripper motor?
Who said anything about comparing the HSV offering to the FPV offering? I in fact stated that as an overall package circa 100K, neither of them stack up against a BMW 335.
If you want to start a b#$shit3 fight over HSV and FPV be my guest, but you'll be alone as you're the first one to raise it in this thread!

Now unless I've written someting different to what you have read, you may wish to reconsider the ridiculous reply you have just presented.

Now I'll go jump in my boring FPV ute, which I'm glad I purchased after recently driving and even more boring SSV

[macca_779]

Has anyone considered that HSV going to a supercharged motor may help Ford move cars. Think about it your average clueless punter gets sucked into HSV's excellent marketing campaign. Then realizes after going to the dealer how much one on the road is going to cost and clicks that if he goes to the FPV dealership next door he can get a supercharged V8 for 50+k less. I know I would


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk HD

[Pickles]

I'm confused...

What did I state about sales figures?
What did I say about John Bowe's comments?
Since when hasn't the Miami been a ripper motor?
Who said anything about comparing the HSV offering to the FPV offering? I in fact stated that as an overall package circa 100K, neither of them stack up against a BMW 335.
If you want to start a b#$shit3 fight over HSV and FPV be my guest, but you'll be alone as you're the first one to raise it in this thread!

Now unless I've written someting different to what you have read, you may wish to reconsider the ridiculous reply you have just presented.

Now I'll go jump in my boring FPV ute, which I'm glad I purchased after recently driving and even more boring SSV

Last 12 words of your Post 165?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Spoolin]

now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.


Last 12 words of your Post 165?

Cheers, Pickles.

Um, put it back into the context of the entire comment, rather than only disecting a small portion and maybe even someone like you...never mind

Ok, I'll break it down for you.

HSV lovers since the LS1 have praised the power the motor produces, since the Miami introduction all you hear is how great the HSV 'package' is. So keeping in context that a supercharged HSV would be the solution to a better car is plain silly, throwing another 100kw at a car that is just capable now isn't going to make it better.
Do you get it now? Something like a BMW is a much better 'package' in that price range tham either HSV or FPV will ever produce, so I ask you don't go back down the 'power' avenue to justify a 100k+ price tag on an Aussie car....Phew

[288vxgts300]

Some of us don,t give a shitt about imports,

A S/C HSV ,to the holden enthusiast would be awsome,and 100k,so what.

[Spoolin]

Some of us don,t give a shitt about imports,

A S/C HSV ,to the holden enthusiast would be awsome,and 100k,so what.

You're right, but there isn't enough enthusiasts who will or can afford a 100k.

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

Um, put it back into the context of the entire comment, rather than only disecting a small portion and maybe even someone like you...never mind

Ok, I'll break it down for you.

HSV lovers since the LS1 have praised the power the motor produces, since the Miami introduction all you hear is how great the HSV 'package' is. So keeping in context that a supercharged HSV would be the solution to a better car is plain silly, throwing another 100kw at a car that is just capable now isn't going to make it better.
Do you get it now? Something like a BMW is a much better 'package' in that price range tham either HSV or FPV will ever produce, so I ask you don't go back down the 'power' avenue to justify a 100k+ price tag on an Aussie car....Phew

not to mention all i ever heard was the fpv used to have the better overall package...but the new stomping motor OVERPOWERS the chasis haha. seriously 100k for a hsv in this time and age is a joke and should be outlawed. Unless of course it is a special edition with the new sc engine and a bunch of goodies to put it in euro high performance sedan territory.....cus thats where it will be...and a sc engine alone wont cut it. Otherwise...MACCA your right...everyone can just go next door and buy a sc ford for MUCH less.

[mjrandom]

put it in euro high performance sedan territory

What price point do you reckon this starts at for a genuine 5 seater 4 door?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????

[gigantor]

would be nice to see a factory supercharged v8 like the ls9 in a hsv. dont think they will get a ls9 tho. the fords are getting too fast hsv will loose too many customers if they dont step it up soon

[Pickles]

Um, put it back into the context of the entire comment, rather than only disecting a small portion and maybe even someone like you...never mind

Ok, I'll break it down for you.

HSV lovers since the LS1 have praised the power the motor produces, since the Miami introduction all you hear is how great the HSV 'package' is. So keeping in context that a supercharged HSV would be the solution to a better car is plain silly, throwing another 100kw at a car that is just capable now isn't going to make it better.
Do you get it now? Something like a BMW is a much better 'package' in that price range tham either HSV or FPV will ever produce, so I ask you don't go back down the 'power' avenue to justify a 100k+ price tag on an Aussie car....Phew

You are missing the point......again.
Firstly, I started this thread.....It had NOTHING to do with Ford whatsoever....I did not introduce any comment about the Miami engine, regardless of how good it may, or may not be...nor did I make any untrue, derogatory comments "collective arses" about FPV, as you did against HSV......so if anyone started an HSV V FPV "issue" it was you.
"Phew" ....So, having got that out of the way. and in terms of my thread, the engine I am talking about , & remember, I've said I have no "inside info", will not be a "mainstream" engine, it will be a "special", a limited build, or whatever you want to call it. I say it will happen, but it will be built, in limited numbers alongside the existing range, which will continue.
Some have mentioned a 5.5L F.I. engine. well, I don't know much about that, but I'd say that is the engine that will take HSV into the future, not a limited build, very high performance unit like the 410KW LSA.
Cheers, Pickles

[steve_t]

My dealer just sent me a flyer saying there's never been a better time to trade in my E1 Maloo for something new. The first listing is for their demonstrator Walkinshaw E3 GTS with 500kw through a WP230, WP cam, Lower MRC suspension, 6 pot brakes, WP 3" Bi-Modal exhaust with WP headers, SBZA. All for a bargain price of $169,000 :weirdo:

[Spoolin]

No, I'm not missing the point, you're simply not understanding what I and others are saying. BTW, I didn't realise that OP's owned thread?

1, no Australian built sedan is worth 100K regardless of what is under the bonnet.
2, the mojority of enthusiasts wanting all these goodies can't afford a 100K brand new car.
3, it's going to be too expensive putting it up against much better engineered cars.
4, an engine change for a limited edition run is not going to save HSV, especially with a special price tag.
5, with a price tag of 100k it opens up many, many options. some will even choose a used euro such as a Merc or BMW as they are simply better cars.
6, how long do you think the rwd platform will exists in the format of a commodore, 3-5 years? I can see it as a last stand only.

[Xjas]

Unfortunately it seem likely that an LSA power HSV will be a special edition (which is what the GTS nameplate was originally) probably along the lines of the LSA powered ZL1 Camaro due this year. Whatever the engine to power the garden variety HSV it would be unlikely to put out more than 340-350kws as large jumps in power just dont make economic sense for any car manufacturer, thats why the VT LS1 was detuned so far. The big question is if HSV need 340-350kws for the next round of models do they up the power of the LS3 which would make it more powerful than any LS3 offering in the US or do they go with the LSA and detune it to suit.... or maybe they'll start fitting Miami engines, I hear they're so good they are going be powering the next space shuttle.

If it was up to me I'd make the SS N/A, put the base 550hp LSA in the SSV, put the higher output 580hp LSA in the Clubsport and the LS9 in the GTS to make it the special car it used to be, that'd give everyone plenty of choice and make what could be the last of the Commodores really something special.

[Pickles]

No, I'm not missing the point, you're simply not understanding what I and others are saying. BTW, I didn't realise that OP's owned thread?

1, no Australian built sedan is worth 100K regardless of what is under the bonnet.
2, the mojority of enthusiasts wanting all these goodies can't afford a 100K brand new car.
3, it's going to be too expensive putting it up against much better engineered cars.
4, an engine change for a limited edition run is not going to save HSV, especially with a special price tag.
5, with a price tag of 100k it opens up many, many options. some will even choose a used euro such as a Merc or BMW as they are simply better cars.
6, how long do you think the rwd platform will exists in the format of a commodore, 3-5 years? I can see it as a last stand only.
4. There you go again.....Who said HSV need "saving"?
And you are missing the point again.....it ain't no "Last Stand", or anything of the sort....it's just a limited run "special", that is, IF it happens....it will have NO influence on HSV's future at all. HSV have had plenty of experience with limited builds...I would suggest to you that they are the best ones to decide whether it is worthwhile or not.
"Commodore Platform".....nothing to do with this thread.....but if ya wanna raise it, then I would suggest to you a Miami engined car will be affected by this issue before Commodore....but like I said, this thread ain't about HSV or FPV or Commodore or Falcon.....it's imply about whether a S/C engine will appear in a HSV this year....simply, I say it will.
Cheers, Pickles.

[mjrandom]

As well as missing the point with the euros. How old is the E63 or M5 that you see is worth $100k? I am looking at a replacement for my E2 and thinking of throwing some cash about. M3 and C63 4 doors are in the mix. Ummm I think you should go and play with one and then see how the $150k entry price stands up against the E3 or GT-P. Size is going to be an issue and the interior is not as flash as you seem to think it is. Different class different price. No comparison really. Go 10 year old second hand and you have a lot of history to worry about. I know the HSV or FPV is little more than a better braked better engined taxi with a light splash of sporty but it is still half the price of anything else that goes as hard. And yes I could get a Golf or something and tune the crap out of it but I wont.

If there was a limited edition GTS coming out later this year with a bag of kW, something nicer inside (God no red only leather option please oh and no go faster stickers and wings) and the suspension sorted for the kW I would look at it seriously - read buy it. Same goes for a GT-HO or whatever that would be but both need to have the chassis sorted for the kW and Nm.

[Pickles]

As well as missing the point with the euros. How old is the E63 or M5 that you see is worth $100k? I am looking at a replacement for my E2 and thinking of throwing some cash about. M3 and C63 4 doors are in the mix. Ummm I think you should go and play with one and then see how the $150k entry price stands up against the E3 or GT-P. Size is going to be an issue and the interior is not as flash as you seem to think it is. Different class different price. No comparison really. Go 10 year old second hand and you have a lot of history to worry about. I know the HSV or FPV is little more than a better braked better engined taxi with a light splash of sporty but it is still half the price of anything else that goes as hard. And yes I could get a Golf or something and tune the crap out of it but I wont.

If there was a limited edition GTS coming out later this year with a bag of kW, something nicer inside (God no red only leather option please oh and no go faster stickers and wings) and the suspension sorted for the kW I would look at it seriously - read buy it. Same goes for a GT-HO or whatever that would be but both need to have the chassis sorted for the kW and Nm. Good post...I agree with you 100%.....and I do own....a C63!
Cheers, Pickles.

[Spoolin]

OHH FFS CHILD!

I have my own opinion, stop getting so God damn defensive about it! In my opinion, anyone who spends a 100K or even 80K on an Aussie saloon needs their friggin head read!

[bok1]

simple answer yes it will be here later in the year.pickles i also have a c63 and i have seen the photos of your new1.there is no comparasion to a hsv and amg c63 the 2 are miles apart in fit and finish.also the quality need to be picked up by both hsv and fpv if they want to compete with the likes of amg and bmw m divisions.

[Wonky]

My dealer just sent me a flyer saying there's never been a better time to trade in my E1 Maloo for something new. The first listing is for their demonstrator Walkinshaw E3 GTS with 500kw through a WP230, WP cam, Lower MRC suspension, 6 pot brakes, WP 3" Bi-Modal exhaust with WP headers, SBZA. All for a bargain price of $169,000 :weirdo:

:weirdo: I reckon (depending on kms) they won't get a lot more than half that asking price................

[Magnum9]

OHH FFS CHILD!

I have my own opinion, stop getting so God damn defensive about it! In my opinion, anyone who spends a 100K or even 80K on an Aussie saloon needs their friggin head read!

You might think 100k is a lot of money. For a lot of people it is just play money so what it gets spent on is irrelevant.

[185iboy]

There is no doubt HSV will have supercharged engines. Not this year though. This side of the decade yep.

[Pickles]

:weirdo: I reckon (depending on kms) they won't get a lot more than half that asking price................

You're right.....Anyone that would pay that sort of money would have to be a....SUPER GOOSE.
Cheers, Pickles.

[macca_779]

You're right.....Anyone that would pay that sort of money would have to be a....SUPER GOOSE.
Cheers, Pickles.

That applies to people who buy most WP products I reckon. Very inflated prices indeed

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

you know whats really simple to understand...if you have to pay 40-50 THOUSAND $ more on a performance car...when the oposition builds virtually the same or similiar proven product...then your either a MASSIVE diehard to that brand(read stupid with your money) or your really stupid with your money.
i think Hsv will have a quad turbo 2ltre lpg grange by the end of the year.....just my opinion...smacks forehead....but its a great buisness case

[planetdavo]

Oh how I've missed some of the stuff on this forum...:lmao:
ANY CAR is worth whatever the person actually BUYING one feels it is worth. They don't have to justify it to internet legends.
Personally, I also have no "insider knowledge" on the topic Pickles started. But, I do agree that HSV for sure have been keeping their options open. They know perfectly well what the GM Powertrain closet contains, but, contrary to the thoughts of many an internet commentator, they are a successful business that only does what it NEEDS to do to be successful. As soon as a business starts caving in to the demands of people that often aren't even going to buy said car, they might as well shut the doors and find something else to do.
I believe they will release an LSA powered car as a limited run leading up to VF, based purely on how I believe they run their business.

[planetdavo]

you know whats really simple to understand...if you have to pay 40-50 THOUSAND $ more on a performance car...when the oposition builds virtually the same or similiar proven product...then your either a MASSIVE diehard to that brand(read stupid with your money) or your really stupid with your money.
i think Hsv will have a quad turbo 2ltre lpg grange by the end of the year.....just my opinion...smacks forehead....but its a great buisness case

Well, a supercharged 5.0 versus a supercharged 6.2...;)
The usual suspects have YET AGAIN dragged this into an HSV vs FPV smackdown. How about we wait until the red team possibly releases said car hey fellas, before "comparing" them...to avoid certain people looking like Ford trolls and all...:)

[WHITER8UTE]

To late for me couldnt wait any longer brought new gt 335 today to replace my twin turbo ve r8 maloo couldnt wait any longer been hard thing to do change sides.

[macca_779]

The LSA has been out for years Davo. We know what its capable of. Tuned Miami vs tuned LSA there isn't much in it seeing what the yanks get out of them with no mods. The 5.0 while obviously smaller is a very efficient core engine so it's not as simple as bigger is better. One advantage the LSA has is it's intercooled from factory where the Miami isn't.

But yes let's just wait and see what HSV does. I do think the LSA is a stronger base engine. But then it's no ls9 either and the smaller blower will hold it back at some point whereas the 1.9 on the smaller ford effectively has more headroom. But again we shall see. Exciting times ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pickles]

G'Day Davo.
Yeah, I don't care about the "opposition" either....it was NOT why I created this thread....it was simply about whether HSV will, or will not, release a S/C engine this year...that's all.
I remain confident that........they will.
Cheers, Pickles.

[BEARWOOD]

Oh how I've missed some of the stuff on this forum...:lmao:
ANY CAR is worth whatever the person actually BUYING one feels it is worth. They don't have to justify it to internet legends.
Personally, I also have no "insider knowledge" on the topic Pickles started. But, I do agree that HSV for sure have been keeping their options open. They know perfectly well what the GM Powertrain closet contains, but, contrary to the thoughts of many an internet commentator, they are a successful business that only does what it NEEDS to do to be successful. As soon as a business starts caving in to the demands of people that often aren't even going to buy said car, they might as well shut the doors and find something else to do.
I believe they will release an LSA powered car as a limited run leading up to VF, based purely on how I believe they run their business.

I find it a little strange how you often refer to other people on the forum as such things as "internet legends" or "internet commentators" when you are doing the exact same thing but just have a different opinion. You come on here and type words the same as others so maybe consider that before you try and elevate yourself above an internet hero. Not having a go, just an observation.

I agree with what you say in regards to a company only doing what they need to and nothing more, most people just want more for nothing.

[steve_t]

The LSA has been out for years Davo. We know what its capable of. Tuned Miami vs tuned LSA there isn't much in it seeing what the yanks get out of them with no mods. The 5.0 while obviously smaller is a very efficient core engine so it's not as simple as bigger is better. One advantage the LSA has is it's intercooled from factory where the Miami isn't.

But yes let's just wait and see what HSV does. I do think the LSA is a stronger base engine. But then it's no ls9 either and the smaller blower will hold it back at some point whereas the 1.9 on the smaller ford effectively has more headroom. But again we shall see. Exciting times ahead.




Good point. HSV releases an LSA powered special edition and then FPV fits a 2.3 and an intercooler from factory...

[macca_779]

Good point. HSV releases an LSA powered special edition and then FPV fits a 2.3 and an intercooler from factory...

They won't fit a 2.3l. No way that's going to happen. Cooler possibly. Letting the rains off a bit in the tune, likely and there is plenty left to let loose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[planetdavo]

The LSA has been out for years Davo. We know what its capable of. Tuned Miami vs tuned LSA there isn't much in it seeing what the yanks get out of them with no mods. The 5.0 while obviously smaller is a very efficient core engine so it's not as simple as bigger is better. One advantage the LSA has is it's intercooled from factory where the Miami isn't.

But yes let's just wait and see what HSV does. I do think the LSA is a stronger base engine. But then it's no ls9 either and the smaller blower will hold it back at some point whereas the 1.9 on the smaller ford effectively has more headroom. But again we shall see. Exciting times ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe I ever mentioned that dirty word "tuned" fella...I was simply responding to someone obvious that claimed he doesn't know why anyone would bother spending the extra on a possible FACTORY LSA HSV when Ford has the s/c 5.0. "Tuned" wasn't ever mentioned. Start talking modded cars and the limit really is your budget...:teach:

[planetdavo]

I find it a little strange how you often refer to other people on the forum as such things as "internet legends" or "internet commentators" when you are doing the exact same thing but just have a different opinion. You come on here and type words the same as others so maybe consider that before you try and elevate yourself above an internet hero. Not having a go, just an observation.



Perhaps you'd be happier if I substitute those terms with "Ford trolls on a Holden forum". Does that make it easier to digest?

[macca_779]

I don't believe I ever mentioned that dirty word "tuned" fella...I was simply responding to someone obvious that claimed he doesn't know why anyone would bother spending the extra on a possible FACTORY LSA HSV when Ford has the s/c 5.0. "Tuned" wasn't ever mentioned. Start talking modded cars and the limit really is your budget...:teach:

Tuned a dirty word. Wash your mouth out. If you had half an idea what some of the calibrations look like that came from OEM you wouldn't be so negative.

The point wasn't that they are tuned or not. Just what they are capable of should the manufacturer allow them to produce more.


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[Martin_D]

G'Day Davo.
Yeah, I don't care about the "opposition" either....it was NOT why I created this thread....it was simply about whether HSV will, or will not, release a S/C engine this year...that's all. I remain confident that........they will.
Cheers, Pickles.

The opposition for you Pickles is Audi, dont you watch DTM?

FACT: Mate of mine just picked up a brand new GS Ute Supercharged 5.0 with 800 demo km on it for $42K drive away.
So its under $50K easy for the factory blown Aussie experience these days, I wonder how many will stump up 3 x Times that purported for a supercharged HSV?
I wonder if the same handful of people that popped $150K+ on a W427 in the pre-GFC days still exist now?
HSV will be wondering the very same thing....make it GTS with a tickbox cost engine option....or roll the dice on making $100K profit per car but selling less than 20/30....

All interesting questions, but does a depressed 2012, and more highly taxed than in any time in history, business sector now have the spare cash to throw at a one-trick pipe dream or does reality bite?

[Spoolin]

I guess the point was whether HSV will plant a FI motor into a HSV shell, it's fair to say it is possible. If you are talking with your heart, the of course you'll want it to happen a one eyed support would want their team to be at the front.

In my opinion, those who want it to happen versus those who can afford it are two vastly different markets, those that want it are generaly speaking for the secondhand market. I've criticised it's viabilty in the market at the price point that has been mentioned, it's pushing the car into another market that is well and truly beyond what HSV can produce at the moment and lets face fact, it only has some badge cred in middle class Australia and 100k+ taxi whether it be from Fraud or Holden is nothing but a joke.

At the end of the day, it's up to the accountants. If the numbers don't stack up it wont happen.

BTW, if you don't consider red and blue competitors...you're an idiot!

[zorro]

The opposition for you Pickles is Audi, dont you watch DTM?

FACT: Mate of mine just picked up a brand new GS Ute Supercharged 5.0 with 800 demo km on it for $42K drive away.
So its under $50K easy for the factory blown Aussie experience these days, I wonder how many will stump up 3 x Times that purported for a supercharged HSV?
I wonder if the same handful of people that popped $150K+ on a W427 in the pre-GFC days still exist now?
HSV will be wondering the very same thing....make it GTS with a tickbox cost engine option....or roll the dice on making $100K profit per car but selling less than 20/30....

All interesting questions, but does a depressed 2012, and more highly taxed than in any time in history, business sector now have the spare cash to throw at a one-trick pipe dream or does reality bite?

From my daily commute across Melbourne I see quite a lot of high end euros, not debadged 318s or c250s, Lambos/Porsche/Fezzas etc an not to mention the ever common c63 :stick:

I think the money is there just open to looking elsewhere to spend their hard earned

[Martin_D]

From my daily commute across Melbourne I see quite a lot of high end euros, not debadged 318s or c250s, Lambos/Porsche/Fezzas etc an not to mention the ever common c63 :stick:
I think the money is there just open to looking elsewhere to spend their hard earned

Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo owners rarely spend any of their $500K+ car allowance on HSVs.
Fact is a long time back your HSV dollar bought a car that was as fast and performed as well as anything in the price segment, so it made sense. Then they went and priced one the same as GTR, M3, and C63.....all of a sudden it wasnt very good value for money as it pretty much didnt do anything as good as similarly priced cars, so other than the HSV tragics, nobody bought it. Will it happen again?

[zorro]

Depending how they market it will depend how it is sold. Tbh there is already Walkinshaw performance or race sports that will modify your brand new Holden/HSV before you pick it up and still have the new car warranty, why does HSV have to do it on this model when the business formula is working and they have two or more companies throwing blowers brakes and more on cars on initial purchase and cover the warranty on the parts/labor?

[1HDT 05]

Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo owners rarely spend any of their $500K+ car allowance on HSVs.
Fact is a long time back your HSV dollar bought a car that was as fast and performed as well as anything in the price segment, so it made sense. Then they went and priced one the same as GTR, M3, and C63.....all of a sudden it wasnt very good value for money as it pretty much didnt do anything as good as similarly priced cars, so other than the HSV tragics, nobody bought it. Will it happen again?

Been looking at all three cars to buy in 12 to 20 months time. I can drive away in a demo GTS with the brake upgrade for 85k. I wouldn't be able to do that with the others for 160k.

[Martin_D]

Been looking at all three cars to buy in 12 to 20 months time. I can drive away in a demo GTS with the brake upgrade for 85k. I wouldn't be able to do that with the others for 160k.

Exactly right
GTS is ok money for what it does, how it goes.
Adding a $20K crate engine to it and then asking $160K for it wouldnt make the car particularly good value. No?
This is what has happened with some Aussie specials in the past.

An example of good value was the VX Clubby, even won BFYB shootout in Motor if I remember correctly. Cheap(ish), cheerful, fast :cool:

[1BEAST2NV]

but for the price walkinshaw put on it, is it really worth it......, cars up there in price as it is "brand new"....

[adr8]

Been looking at all three cars to buy in 12 to 20 months time. I can drive away in a demo GTS with the brake upgrade for 85k. I wouldn't be able to do that with the others for 160k.

Just had a look on carsales.com I dont know about Perth but here in Vic you would get a brand new GTS for $74k add brakes and your looking $80k driveaway.

[1HDT 05]

Just had a look on carsales.com I dont know about Perth but here in Vic you would get a brand new GTS for $74k add brakes and your looking $80k driveaway.

Prices generally higher here plus the stamp rate is higher. Agree the w427 was overpriced but a sc HSV for 85k with decent brakes would be ok.

[Pickles]

Nothing on this topic for a while.
Believe me guys.....it's on?!!!
Wait & see.....4th quarter 2012....HSV 25th anniv? .....whatever?....it's on.
Sorry to say.....for all you "fanboys"......Miami 335 GT "afficianados".....and hey, it'll also be quicker, in a straight line, than our C63. But...who cares.....it's gonna be a great car.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Daniel996]

Believe me guys.....it's on?!!!

But you still reckon you have no inside information?!? :)

Even if it does happen, I'll wait for the (hopefully less porky) VF...

Cheers
Dan

[steve_t]

What's the word, Pickles?

[GOT-307]

Nothing on this topic for a while.
Believe me guys.....it's on?!!!
Wait & see.....4th quarter 2012....HSV 25th anniv? .....whatever?....it's on.
Sorry to say.....for all you "fanboys"......Miami 335 GT "afficianados".....and hey, it'll also be quicker, in a straight line, than our C63. But...who cares.....it's gonna be a great car.
Cheers, Pickles.

April fools?

[steve_t]

April fools?

Wait for the 4th quarter and see would be a pretty lame joke :p

[Pickles]

But you still reckon you have no inside information?!? :)

Even if it does happen, I'll wait for the (hopefully less porky) VF...

Cheers
Dan
Nope....NO inside info whatsoever.
I was talking to an HSV Manager last week who denied all knowledge of such a car.
Nevertheless, I say, it's ON.
Cheers, Pickles.

[1BEAST2NV]

has to say NO as he prob signed a waiver ;)

secrets safe here lol

[bouka]

No go. And the 335 gt is faster than the C63.

[macca_779]

No go. And the 335 gt is faster than the C63.

When it gets traction


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk HD

[duke5700]

I'm not holding my breath.

The commodore is a full sized touring car.. Yeah you can tart it up and they do everything reasonably for the dollars..

Lets move onto the next gen of middle sized rwd cars with better power trains. DSG, a chassis that actually wants to turn in, direct injection, small capacity FI all the good stuff.

[Usdrothek]

Bring on the new torana concept car! A blown V6.

[Alex(AUS)]

No go. And the 335 gt is faster than the C63.

I wouldnt say so. The C63 coupe with performance pack ran near 120mph in a recent Motor test (and that is detuned from the N/A E big brother ...)

Alex

[mjrandom]

OK I will kick off a debate!

Dropped the E2 off to the doctor this morning to try to identify the noise that appeared and disappeared the other night and took the opportunity to ask about 'the limited edition GTS' later this year. Wouldn't or couldn't say anything about it. Either didn't know or wasn't talking. Only comment was that there has been a car running around as a concept for a while and it may or may not make its way to production. If it does it won't be a sticker special. What was interesting was he said that from mid 2012 GTS will no longer be a mainstream model in the line up and will be restricted to limited production runs once or twice a year. This is to strengthen the GTS brand and make it more desirable. The base Clubsport is coming back and the R8 will step up with leather interior and some other bits though details unknown. Senator Signature will continue as normal. Anyone heard this or anything similar?

Oh and as for the supercharged GTS no comment other than what was said above and no they wouldn't take a deposit!

With the VF/ F series (?) a couple of years away I am interested. Was looking at M3 and C63 but they are just too small for me right now and also I couldn't use either as a daily driver given where I have to drive so it is back to a tickled Senator, the mysterious s/c GTS, or a GT-P or GT-? also slated for later this year.

Hope you are right Martin.

Michael

PS: anyone with an E3 or PD are the bolt holes for the rear spoiler in the same place as E1/E2?

[SUZUKI MALISHA]

im still amazed as to why anyone would think holden can afford to spend RnD on a supercharged limited edition when they only have 4 years left to spread all the money they have now including the recent 200mill from the gov......and the Vf...almost 100% the last ever commadore. It would seem more ussefull to go nuts with last ditch editions before they have to start all over again with the new global shells...which theyve allready confirmed. I cant see them getting any more money from the gov...and the parent companies broke..so no dough coming there.
Its going to be very interesting what happens in the near future.
And anyone who wants to call me a ford troll is just immature..and uncapable of a grown up conversation with real facts. Ive always had holdens and until recently Hsvs...but a close family member has a GT 335 which allows me a certain privledged possition of being able to sample both in the real world. And let me put the record straight....in the real world the Gt335 absolutely eats the Hsvs for breakfast..is much more planted with better feedback then the stupid track only MRC suspension gimic (which if youve sampled is either good on good roads or poor on poor roads) and dont get me started on things like cost of tyres or costs of similiar tuneability. One thing he never had on me is the looks tho...Fpvs are soft.. although he argues a charger whine negates that all day and secretly hes on to something. And from what ive seen around here ..theres not many who havnt jumped on the superchargerd HSV for christmas bandwagon.haha

So keeping on topic ...still havent heard anything about this knew SC HSV and if we do itl still cost to much and i now cant be bothered spending 30-50% $ for an overinflated aussie sports sedan. I think ill wait for the last commadore and have that in the shed instead.

[kayman]

There is a mule running a lsa though. As early as october last year too. So they are spending development dollars on it.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[Pickles]

There is a mule running a lsa though. As early as october last year too. So they are spending development dollars on it.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

There certainly is.....and as far as R/D is concerned.....well yes, I know it's gotta be done, but the LSA is a proven package, used in similar situations in the U.S.....and like I've said....it wouldn't be hard.....anyway, we're getting closer.......to seeing the car......or simply discovering.......that I was wrong!
The prior post about the GTS is "interesting".....but I don't know anything about that.
I see also that we have a Falcon "enthusiast" on here, making comments about the "future" of the Commodore?......fair enough of course, but if I was him, I'd be far more concerned about the future of the Falcon?
Cheers Pickles.

[mjrandom]

No idea what power and torque figures any hypothetical LSA GTS will have but a lot of R&D would have been done with the W427 that will be valid for the GTS. The W427 was 375kW and 650Nm wasn't it? Just wondering if the LSA GTS if offered will be manual only? What is the auto box good for and is there an auto option in the good old US of A that runs the LSA?

As for the comments above on the Ford. Don't care what anyone says the Ford doesn't transmit its power to the ground in an effective manner and the tuning of the stability/traction control is behind HSV. If I was to buy a Ford it would need to be one that has had some tweeks to the rear rubber and suspension from the factory. If it is the same just with more engine power I won't even bother to drive it. Hell after back to back drives of an F6 and my 'not quite as it left the factory' E1 R8 the salesman went out and bought an E1 GTS!

[Angeldust]

i would take a w427 any day over a gt335


Bring on a LSA GTS!!!

(htough i wont be able to afford it)

[jaykay]

http://www.legendarycollectorcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2010-chevrolet-corvette-ZR1-engine.jpg :woot:

[Pickles]

No idea what power and torque figures any hypothetical LSA GTS will have but a lot of R&D would have been done with the W427 that will be valid for the GTS. The W427 was 375kW and 650Nm wasn't it? Just wondering if the LSA GTS if offered will be manual only? What is the auto box good for and is there an auto option in the good old US of A that runs the LSA?

As for the comments above on the Ford. Don't care what anyone says the Ford doesn't transmit its power to the ground in an effective manner and the tuning of the stability/traction control is behind HSV. If I was to buy a Ford it would need to be one that has had some tweeks to the rear rubber and suspension from the factory. If it is the same just with more engine power I won't even bother to drive it. Hell after back to back drives of an F6 and my 'not quite as it left the factory' E1 R8 the salesman went out and bought an E1 GTS!
LSA has 410KW, & 745NM..... lovely, totally "adequate" figures, or "a beautiful set of numbers", to quote a phrase coined by a well known aussie P.M.
Cheers, Pickles.

[mjrandom]

Should nearly be enough then...

[bouka]

This thread is very amusing.

As a multiple HSV owner and having owned all LS series HSV products and the current owner of a 335 GT, I can tell you nothing in the current range comes close to the GT for performance. Nothing. I refer to straight line, in any gear performance. And sound, and the auto. Love or hate ford, from a performance perspective the sc motor is breathtaking.

As for what HSV has planned? Pickles is way off I reckon. Won't happen this year in my opinion. I reckon a new motor will be in the VF. And I reckon it will be brilliant. High tech, and a real thing of beauty. It can't look any worse!

They will have to do a lot to get near the sc GT from a performance perspective and I would not doubt for a second the hoodlums at Clayton can and will respond. They have to.

An auto, sc, well decked out, high tech 400 plus kw and 700 plus nm GTS please. And make sure it is around or under 100k please.

One can only dream.

[duke5700]

I don't know if they have too do it Bouka.. I mean they are killing FPV in the sales race. It will be a matter of will they deliver this for the fans??

I agree. Not this year and if it happens its going to want to be a cracker.

[planetdavo]

I don't know if they have too do it Bouka.. I mean they are killing FPV in the sales race. It will be a matter of will they deliver this for the fans??

I agree. Not this year and if it happens its going to want to be a cracker.

It would be a success whether "most" people agree or not. Camry is so popular around the world because it ticks most buyers boxes, but cars like W427, possible s/c HSV etc aren't about the mainstream 85th percentile buyer or the need to win popularity polls to be considered a success...

[sjhugh]

i would take a w427 any day over a gt335


I’d take 2 x GT335’s any day.
I won’t live long enough to make any worthwhile profit out of owning a W427.



Don't care what anyone says the Ford doesn't transmit its power to the ground in an effective manner ....


And neither can my VE’s straight from the dealer’s floor.
At times they’ve hopped so bad when launched hard you’d think the back end was going to break away. HSV and Commodores included.

.

[planetdavo]

I’d take 2 x GT335’s any day.
I won’t live long enough to make any worthwhile profit out of owning a W427.


ANYONE that thinks a car will appreciate in value over the medium term needs a different hobby.
But, W427 will always be a super rare piece of Australian history, something FPV can only dream about with their current range. People have a history of paying handsomely for a limited run model a step above the pleb models in this country...:yup:

[sjhugh]

My post was tongue in cheek but I do agree with your valuation of desirable older models, that’s why the GTHO is up the top of many peoples list.
Mine includes A9X, HQ 350 GTS Monaro and a couple of others. The W427 missed the cut.

.

[duke5700]

Not quite sure what your saying Davo?

Success is in the eye of the beholder. Business, is if it makes a profit or has enough flow on to increase lower spec sales. As for the buyer, well each to their own. It will want to knock the Ford around otherwise why bother.

If the Falcon had a body to match its driveline, Fords problems would be over.

W427 will see a limited market, it wasn't built for racing like the Walky or the VN Group A.


It would be a success whether "most" people agree or not. Camry is so popular around the world because it ticks most buyers boxes, but cars like W427, possible s/c HSV etc aren't about the mainstream 85th percentile buyer or the need to win popularity polls to be considered a success...

[bouka]

I don't know if they have too do it Bouka.. I mean they are killing FPV in the sales race. It will be a matter of will they deliver this for the fans??

I agree. Not this year and if it happens its going to want to be a cracker.

HSV have always outsold FPV Luke, and always will. It is more a matter of how they are going against their own sales targets.

Whether or not they consider FPV competitor (that whole issue is a joke), the market does and where HSV owners would laugh at the FPV V8 guys in the past and bully them at the lights etc, they now do anything to avoid eye contact.

They DO need to respond, regardless of whatever the second coming Brock may say (guess who). Spiritually more than any other reason.

And when they do, they will get my money again. I will buy the product that I consider the best. My money is being back in a HSV in 18 months. IF they do the right thing by me and the product!

[planetdavo]

Not quite sure what your saying Davo?

Success is in the eye of the beholder. Business, is if it makes a profit or has enough flow on to increase lower spec sales. As for the buyer, well each to their own. It will want to knock the Ford around otherwise why bother.

If the Falcon had a body to match its driveline, Fords problems would be over.

W427 will see a limited market, it wasn't built for racing like the Walky or the VN Group A.


The point you fail to understand is that, just like W427 was, any expensive factory s/charged HSV variant possibly release is a guaranteed success before it even comes out. And yes, it WAS a success, even if the gfc killed it off early, and the rather lofty beliefs that 427 might get made was never realised. Online naysayers (and Ford fanboyz) poo-poo'd W427 as being too expensive and nothing but a GTS with a different engine, yet it still achieved something regular models never can...exclusivity. People pay handsomely for exclusivity, and they will do the same for this one (if it's released). Comparisons with the "common" HSV or FPV models wont even come into it for the people that want one of these. Most wont even use half the performance potential, and have no interest in engaging in some d!ckbeating off the traffic lights with the poor people.

[bouka]

The point you fail to understand is that, just like W427 was, any expensive factory s/charged HSV variant possibly release is a guaranteed success before it even comes out. And yes, it WAS a success, even if the gfc killed it off early, and the rather lofty beliefs that 427 might get made was never realised. Online naysayers (and Ford fanboyz) poo-poo'd W427 as being too expensive and nothing but a GTS with a different engine, yet it still achieved something regular models never can...exclusivity. People pay handsomely for exclusivity, and they will do the same for this one (if it's released). Comparisons with the "common" HSV or FPV models wont even come into it for the people that want one of these. Most wont even use half the performance potential, and have no interest in engaging in some d!ckbeating off the traffic lights with the poor people.


W427 was a failure and nothing more than a GTS with an LS7 to the consumer. HSV got greedy. History will deal with it accordingly. Oh, and the SCGT is quicker. Does it matter? History will decide. And I am a big fan of the car, would have purchased one at 110k. Was heavily involved with the CSV LS7 that was on the front page of Wheels Mag and nothing but admiration for the motor and the lengths that HSV went to to make the car a reality.

I do admire you Dave but in at the moment you don't seem to get this market. This is evidenced by your continuous attacks and belittling of the type of buyer that spends their hard earnt on the products. As for Ford fanboys, I am one at the moment. These guys put it all on the line and delivered a genuine belter of a motor. It is nothing short of brilliant. The rest of the car, well, FPV are well aware of my thoughts on it.

Please don't spoil what is 80% tongue in cheek and 20% genuine information and 100% passionate banter by attacking the posters in this thread. You are far too knowledgable and intelligent for that.

[planetdavo]

A new SV6 would be quicker than an XY GTHO these days bouka. Time doesn't stand still. W427 was the fastest "factory" car of it's era, and many were bought by speculators to store away. Says plenty that. Performance comparisons to later models means nothing. W427 will ALWAYS be way more desirable than any of the latest "mainstream" HSV's or FPV's, no matter how many kW's the brochure says it has. They will simply be replaced by the next new model.
I don't agree that I got it wrong bouka. I simply believe that people like yourself weren't the target market for W427, because you clearly have different priorities to the market that bought them. Hence, you don't agree with me. Plenty of cars are simply too expensive to justify on "rational" grounds like you try to. W427 is just one of them.
The rest is purely your opinion of me as a person. That's your issue.

[whitels1ss]

A new SV6 would be quicker than an XY GTHO these days bouka.
Sorry David, I don't think so. ;)

[planetdavo]

Sorry David, I don't think so. ;)

Are we talking reality for factory released models, or over 30 years of well developed rose coloured glasses...? :lol:
Do a lap or two of acceleration and braking between a stock GTHO and a stock SV6, and get back to me. You might be a little surprised what the passage of time does.
ALL the old muscle cars are slow compared to modern cars. :bawl: