Learners Guide to Motorcycles

[boggers007]

Hey guys,

For ages I have wanted to get my motorbike licence and lately I have been really considering it and have spent heaps of time looking at motorbikes etc. Now as I don't know anyone who has a motorbike licence I can't asked them the stupid questions so thought I would ask here.

How have people gone about getting their licence? I have been trying to figure out if I have to buy my own bike first before I can get lessons on how to ride it (Never ridden a motorbike so 0 experience on them) Or do teachers provide you with a bike? I see the advantage that if I have my own bike I learn to use my own which at the moment im looking at a Ninja 250R which are relatively cheap for a decent second hand one.

Any help would be appreciated.

[A^K^T]

The first step would be getting your learners permit. Link (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/licensing/20617.asp)
There are some motorbike trainers/schools in Perth that have bikes you can use but you can also buy your own.

[BigAnt]

I have recently obtained my L's, in SA you have to go and do 2 half day courses where they teach you the basics on how to ride safely. For your L's you can only use their bikes, but when going to test for your P's you can use your own if you desire.

[1111111]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/9umbr.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/9umbr)

I've just got back on a bike after 7years. Picked this up on monday. Loving it & can't wait to begin the mods.
Cheers.

[boggers007]

Cheers for the information so far fellas, Already knew about the learners permit part so didn't mention it was mainly how has everyone else gone about learning and then going for the practical test.

[A^K^T]

Cheers for the information so far fellas, Already knew about the learners permit part so didn't mention it was mainly how has everyone else gone about learning and then going for the practical test.

I bought a new bike and did the lessons on that , i also did the test on my bike back in 1991 (from memory)
Learners permit and test done at Welshpool licencing branch.

[csv rulz]

They provide the bike and u can do a longer course if no experience on a bike! I got mine back in November and have a KLR250 which I ride regularly and occasionally i ride the old mans KLR650, love the extra grunt of it but I find it to heavy as I like to go bush as well.
If I had the money personally I would get a DRZ400E
Good luck with it, it's so much fun

[Woodchukka]

I did my test in NSW and before I could get my licence I had to have 2 1/2 day lessons. They provided the bikes (i.e. you did not need your own) and all but one in our class could already ride but we had to go through the process and man o man did we give those bikes some :nyuk:. Obviously if you are looking at a Ninja you want to do road riding. However be aware that I had a Yamaha FZR-R 250 and I hired a bike for the P's test as it was easier to get a trail bike around the test course than that FZR as it had the turning circle of a bus and made the test a prick to complete. Oh I completed my test in 1999 or 2000.

[Puppeteere]

If you're classed as a mature age rider (over 25) then I would just use their bike and hire one for the P plate test. Reason being if you buy a 250CC, you'll want to upgrade once off the P's and this is only about 6 months for the aforementioned. May be better in the long run to save for the bigger bike if that's your goal.

[Souljah]

If your over 25 in NSW you will be on your L's for 3 months before being able to sit the P's test. You will be then on your red P's for a minimum of 12 months before you can upgrade your license to an unrestricted moto license. So buying a half decent 250 would be a waste of time. I brought a road registerable dirt bike to learn on. Mainly to just get comfortable riding in traffic but also because they are cheap to buy and register along with being tough enough to withstand a drop or 2.
I upgraded to my full license a few months ago and only road on the road for the first time since doing the Ps test 12 months ago a few days ago and it wasn't even my bike!

[CunningStunter]

Sounds like you have 2 issues - gaining the permit to ride and buying a bike to learn to ride on.

Firstly, just get your learners as you don't need a bike for this. Even for the Ps test you can hire a bike, although you may not pass the test without prior experience or practice during your learner period.

This is where your wallet/time/need for riding comes in. If you're looking for cheap transport, doing 50-100kms/day and at higher speeds then you'll want a road/sports style bike as single cylinder dirt bikes are a bit painful on the road, high revs, lots of vibrations and alot of work for 1 cylinder. If you were right in the city and doing less/slower kms then the motard/dirt bike/more up right riding position helps and honestly, buying anything with wide bars as opposed to 'clip ons' found on road/sports bikes is going to be better for your control over the bike, again advice more for the learner.

If you had the time/money and didn't need a bike to get to work/commute on then I'd recommend finding a cheap trailbike and doing some riding around the trails. Even if you're not mad keen on dirt bike riding this will give you some of the skills you'll need without having to play out in the traffic. You'll conquer changing gears/throttle control to the point where it's second nature and one less thing for you to think about when learning to deal with traffic because that's nearly an artform in itself. You don't want to be thinking about how to change gears or which lever is the brake/clutch lever when facing a Bus who's about to T-bone you.....

Something you've not mentioned but is fairly crucial to your bike choice is the type of riding, your age/height/weight because a CBR250 for a 7foot/150kg giant won't suit same goes if you're 5foot flat and 40kgs dripping wet.
A taller dirt bike isn't going to be for you and you'll need a low seat height as a mandatory....

If you have the time/money but are more interested in road bikes/not wasting time dirt bike riding then do a few of the Stay up right advanced courses to hone some of the skills like advanced braking, advanced cornering and body position etc.

2 bits of advice for the wise......

1. Always, always, ALWAYS, treat every vehicle as though they're out to kill you. Even if you're going down a straight road, have 'right' of way and have seen the driver waiting to pull out perform a headcheck - assume they have NOT seen you (or have misjudged their timing), you can simply roll off the throttle, cover the brake as a 'just in case'. This is important on smaller bikes that don't have the power to get you out of a tricky spot.

You will become a little more paranoid on a motorcycle and this WILL save your life one day. As will:

2. Always, always, ALWAYS, give yourself an 'option out' - even when or maybe especially when you're stationary. Sitting at the lights in the middle track of your lane RIGHT up the clacker of the car in front gives you no room to move if you see a semi with locked wheels/smoke approaching your rear. Give yourself a little space/buffer room, you could lane split and avoid becoming a cars new bonnet emblem.....ideally you should always be scanning down the road as far as you can and giving yourself several options.

Hope you find this advice useful, unfortunately I am one of those die hard, love 2 wheels types so I apologise for the essay! Post up a pic of your ride in the BIke forum section when you're ready! :)

[5.7heaven]

from my personal experience (got my license just before christmas), use a learners class bike to learn on and do the test on. i did my L work on a bike, then used a different one for my test and found it difficult changing from one to the other as they were different makes and models. get the L's, do some rides, when you're confident do your test. once you have your license then find a bike you like and get it.
i did the same for my car, learnt in mums, got my license in mums, then bought my own.
if you're interested i have a 2006 VTR 250 for sale as well, was my first bike, never dropped it, great machine

[boggers007]

Sounds like you have 2 issues - gaining the permit to ride and buying a bike to learn to ride on.

Firstly, just get your learners as you don't need a bike for this. Even for the Ps test you can hire a bike, although you may not pass the test without prior experience or practice during your learner period.

This is where your wallet/time/need for riding comes in. If you're looking for cheap transport, doing 50-100kms/day and at higher speeds then you'll want a road/sports style bike as single cylinder dirt bikes are a bit painful on the road, high revs, lots of vibrations and alot of work for 1 cylinder. If you were right in the city and doing less/slower kms then the motard/dirt bike/more up right riding position helps and honestly, buying anything with wide bars as opposed to 'clip ons' found on road/sports bikes is going to be better for your control over the bike, again advice more for the learner.

If you had the time/money and didn't need a bike to get to work/commute on then I'd recommend finding a cheap trailbike and doing some riding around the trails. Even if you're not mad keen on dirt bike riding this will give you some of the skills you'll need without having to play out in the traffic. You'll conquer changing gears/throttle control to the point where it's second nature and one less thing for you to think about when learning to deal with traffic because that's nearly an artform in itself. You don't want to be thinking about how to change gears or which lever is the brake/clutch lever when facing a Bus who's about to T-bone you.....

Something you've not mentioned but is fairly crucial to your bike choice is the type of riding, your age/height/weight because a CBR250 for a 7foot/150kg giant won't suit same goes if you're 5foot flat and 40kgs dripping wet.
A taller dirt bike isn't going to be for you and you'll need a low seat height as a mandatory....

If you have the time/money but are more interested in road bikes/not wasting time dirt bike riding then do a few of the Stay up right advanced courses to hone some of the skills like advanced braking, advanced cornering and body position etc.

2 bits of advice for the wise......

1. Always, always, ALWAYS, treat every vehicle as though they're out to kill you. Even if you're going down a straight road, have 'right' of way and have seen the driver waiting to pull out perform a headcheck - assume they have NOT seen you (or have misjudged their timing), you can simply roll off the throttle, cover the brake as a 'just in case'. This is important on smaller bikes that don't have the power to get you out of a tricky spot.

You will become a little more paranoid on a motorcycle and this WILL save your life one day. As will:

2. Always, always, ALWAYS, give yourself an 'option out' - even when or maybe especially when you're stationary. Sitting at the lights in the middle track of your lane RIGHT up the clacker of the car in front gives you no room to move if you see a semi with locked wheels/smoke approaching your rear. Give yourself a little space/buffer room, you could lane split and avoid becoming a cars new bonnet emblem.....ideally you should always be scanning down the road as far as you can and giving yourself several options.

Hope you find this advice useful, unfortunately I am one of those die hard, love 2 wheels types so I apologise for the essay! Post up a pic of your ride in the BIke forum section when you're ready! :)

Thanks for the input cs had a feeling you might pop up at some point, Probs should have pointed out that im 6'2 and im about 75ish kgs. Haven't seen a ninja in the flesh for a while so never took size of the bike into account. I would use the bike for work communtes (80k's a day ranging mainly between 80-100km/h) as well as the weekend joy ride but in saying that I have a car so bike is not a necessity. Didnt look into the dirt bike as well I know they can be pretty annoying on the type of driving I would be doing but in saying that I live 2 mins from a big pines area which gets alot of dirt bikers so Im in the perfect area for that. Money not being an issue really ideal goal one day is to buy and R1 but in saying that Im sure a nice powerful 250 would keep me happy seeing as I drive a lancer.



from my personal experience (got my license just before christmas), use a learners class bike to learn on and do the test on. i did my L work on a bike, then used a different one for my test and found it difficult changing from one to the other as they were different makes and models. get the L's, do some rides, when you're confident do your test. once you have your license then find a bike you like and get it.
i did the same for my car, learnt in mums, got my license in mums, then bought my own.
if you're interested i have a 2006 VTR 250 for sale as well, was my first bike, never dropped it, great machine

Thanks for the reply man, Still thinking thinking about this so in no rush to buy a bike as I have a feeling when I do I wont be selling that one for a fair while unless I come into some more money lol

[eric]

As you are in Wa you will have to sit a theory test and gain you R-E learners permit and sit the PDA on a bike under 250 cc then after a year sit the PDA again on a bike bigger than 250 cc to remove the engine restriction if you wish to ride bigger bikes (trust me you will).


2 bits of advice for the wise......

1. Always, always, ALWAYS, treat every vehicle as though they're out to kill you. Even if you're going down a straight road, have 'right' of way and have seen the driver waiting to pull out perform a headcheck - assume they have NOT seen you (or have misjudged their timing), you can simply roll off the throttle, cover the brake as a 'just in case'. This is important on smaller bikes that don't have the power to get you out of a tricky spot.

You will become a little more paranoid on a motorcycle and this WILL save your life one day. As will:

2. Always, always, ALWAYS, give yourself an 'option out' - even when or maybe especially when you're stationary. Sitting at the lights in the middle track of your lane RIGHT up the clacker of the car in front gives you no room to move if you see a semi with locked wheels/smoke approaching your rear. Give yourself a little space/buffer room, you could lane split and avoid becoming a cars new bonnet emblem.....ideally you should always be scanning down the road as far as you can and giving yourself several options.

THIS

out of everthing we look for on your PDA this is the most important part you have to have eyes everywhere.
But get as much practise as you can(at least 20 hrs) and I would buy a bike and get comfortable riding it, I have failed many a person who has only jumped on the bike for the first time on the day of thier PDA. also get a good instructor they will teach you your roadcraft more than a mate who cant explian to you what they have as instilled knowledge.

Best of luck

[timy]

Have been riding since I was 5, started off on dirt then moved to road then back to dirt.. Since u have a pine forest out the back I would suggest buying say a wr250 or drz250, something both road registrable and good to practice in the forest.. Start off on dirt, learning throttle control and gears, don't use ur rear brakes when learning at all, they can kill inexperienced riders on wet roads very easily!!

No matter whether u get a sports 250 or a dirt 250 by the end of a year you WILL want bigger and will sell.. Buy a cheap dirty for $4000 and sell it a year later for $3500.. Then buy a 750 don't go straight to a 1000 as it will prob be to quick unless u have been riding most days..

Hope this helps...

[CunningStunter]

HI Boggers,

Yeah sorry for the essay mate....but I've received ALOT of helpful advice on LS1 about my cars and well, even personal life issues so I like trying to give some advice in the bike arena :)

For your height and weight, try a Suzuki GS500 on for size. In the same arena maybe the Kwaka ER5/6....(edit - just read you're in WA so you're restricted to 250cc?? That blows....) Unfortunately there's no 'nice and powerful 250s', even the 2 smoker RGV/RS250s aren't all that quick anymore.....let alone learner legal :(

I think a number of states are going the 150kw/tonne (ton? lol) rule which opens up the range of learner bikes ALOT and let's face it the GS500 ain't no firebreather...! But for someone your size would be alot better than most 250cc's available. Funnily enough this ruling makes a few Harley's Learner legal! Goes to show how heavy and underpowered they are....hehehehe

If you're stuck with 250cc ONLY then perhaps check out the VTR250 or basically similar bikes in the upright riding position VS sports riding position....

Might also be worth considering the dirt bike route. . . .maybe this? - Get the learners permit, go get a 400-450cc dirt bike and DON'T bother riding it on the road. Use it in the bush, do a little trailriding for the L period and when you can get the R1 and KEEP the dirt bike....most bike riding fellow's I know aren't just into riding road, or just trail, if given half a chance we'd ride as many 2 wheeled variants as possible! It would mean you're stuck commuting in the car but at least you wouldn't have a slug of a 250cc (road or dirt) just to commute on, the 400 would suit your size better and give you some great bike riding skills.

Once you've got the big bike, do a few advanced ROAD riding courses to make up for the lack of road skills, in saying that after 12 months riding the trails on your dirt bike you'd have the co-ordination, changing gears, brakes etc down pat....(again depending on local laws regarding experience/time on learners etc....)

One thing I will say, is far too many people get sucked into the 'My mate has an Duke/R1/GSXRthou/ZX10/FairyBlade and it does 450KPH (LOL) - so that's what I'm getting' mentality, not realising ANY of the 1000cc bikes are all pretty similar but it's the ergo's that makes a bike 'fit' for you - (let alone 1000cc sports bikes are a complete waste of time on the road!). Ergo's being the seat position in relation to the bars and the footpegs. I'm 5'9" and 60kgs dripping wet so what 'fits' me will be very different for you.......everyone will have an opinion on what you could ride but you will know once you ride it what feels good for you....in saying that if you really really wanted an R1 and it DIDN'T fit you, you could swap out pegs/bars for different items and make it fit...

So I see a few options for you. . . .happy to take it to PMs if you wanna keep chatting and people don't wanna read my essays! ;-)

Cheers
jarrad

[RiggsSS]

Boggers, you have been provided more good advice here than most will ever get - CS is right on the money. I can relate to Timy as i took a similar path from from dirt to little road bike to bigger road bike to the stupidly fast thing I ride now (track only these days, no fun on road). At the end of the day an apprenticeship needs to served (no matter how big you are! I'm well over a 100kg) and as such there will be a transition in bike size (and possibly type) over time. So if that R1 (lots of scary fun 0 - 100 in 2.2sec) is still the goal, let the journey should start with a bike that you are prepared to transition, ie second hand, bang for buck, something that has good resale but still fit for purpose.

Another thing to keep in mind, a dirtbike with teach you good skills and can be great fun (sometimes more than road) it, however, does NOT prepare you for an R1 - chalk and chees... That's why I sudject one of each. You might even find that, that dirt bike has longevity in garage while you transition through those road bikes. Why? WR250 is no lease fun the a WR450 in most cases, where as riding an R1 is nothing like riding a YZF250.

Good luck with your decision.

[pugz]

Been riding since i was 7. Have had dirt bikes from 50cc(being a little tacker) through to 500cc(4 stroke versions eg. WR XR, & 2 strokers YZ,KX,CR,RM)
As i raced motorcross and later supercross as a sponsered rider for many years. I will not bore you with the many bikes i have owned but got a new one every year sometimes 2 a year. In addition to the many dirt bikes i have owned road bikes as well(my first license was my bike license), 250 through 1000s.

I would not even bother with a 250, you will get used to the power so quickly, leaving you screaming for more. Most companies these days release learner leagal bikes such as the wr450 they just leave a restrickor plate in the air box.
My mate has a leaner legal 600 with the same setup. Just remove the restrictor and put an exhaust on it and woo hoo. As for the 1000 i would not get one until you are a confident rider.

i still perferred my 600 over the R1 i had, cause it was lighter and more nimble to ride with still enough power. If you can't get a 600 on the back wheel then
you shouldn't be riding a 1000. Have seen many a rider over the years a bit cocky on the 1000 come unstuck and eat pavement.

It doen't matter if yr on a 250 or a 1000, bike vs stationary object...Bike always loses....Take it from someone with multiple injuries,(broken back, crushed t-11 and hairline fractured c-6 plus enough steel in my arms and legs to make a 57chevy jelous!)

[DazzlerVE]

g'day Boggers, I recon you'll love it. Just remember that it doesn't matter who was in the right, if you and a car collide, you will lose.

Contrary to popular belief, it is not wise to treat every car as if they are trying to kill you, I treat every car driver as if they are a 65 yo fossil who has lost the ability to turn their neck and LOOK for other road users.

Be careful, as way too many drivers are on the phone/texting or even the internet these days.

BE AWARE of everything around you and don't put yourself in a position of risk on the road.

Even so, riding is a blast. Have fun

[boggers007]

Thanks for the responses guys, taking it all in and going round and round in my head. Won't look into buying anything now just wait til summer starts to pop its head back up and hopefully have bulk cash saved so I can do some bike shopping. Contemplating the dirt or road bike........just found out my friend has an old 250 or 450 2stroke dirt bike in her country house we go visit so might be able to get a few lesson's on that just to get the hang of things.

[timy]

Most likely will be a 250 if it's a 250 dirty, not many 450 two strokes apart from an old cr500 but was a fair bit before my time.. The older fellas might be able to tell you.. A 250 two stroke is a great bike to learn on, they are EXTREMELY powerful at high revs when u hit band so will teach you good throttle control..

I learnt on two strokes and although most guys are going to 4 strokes on dirties now I still love the smell, sound and how easy they are to work on! My first road bike was an aprilia rs250 which is prob the best 2stroke road bike, so if u wanted and love them as much as me then u could jump on something similar after learning the basics..

[pugz]

Most likely will be a 250 if it's a 250 dirty, not many 450 two strokes apart from an old cr500 but was a fair bit before my time.. The older fellas might be able to tell you.. A 250 two stroke is a great bike to learn on, they are EXTREMELY powerful at high revs when u hit band so will teach you good throttle control..

I learnt on two strokes and although most guys are going to 4 strokes on dirties now I still love the smell, sound and how easy they are to work on! My first road bike was an aprilia rs250 which is prob the best 2stroke road bike, so if u wanted and love them as much as me then u could jump on something similar after learning the basics..
Cool..i had a cr500 and a kx500...Absolute weapons.(big bore 2 strokers)Before all of the new motorcross classes eg lites 250s pro 450s, classes were defined with capacity and age...but...in the opens class we used to race 250s through to 500s in the same class. Getting the 500 above 3 gear around the track was an absolute impossibility... I raced my 250 in my own class but opens my 500 i would just keep in second all the way aroung the track...even to hit the 40ft tabletop...My mate had aprilla rs250 done up with all the repsol pannels was a fun bike...looked the part too...2 strokes to my knowledge don't come in 450cc could be wrong i think there is a DT450 road trail..ahh the good old days... i really miss that 500...my wrist do not(broke one over jumping that tabletop at lakes)

[boggers007]

Bit of an update on this thread.

I held off buying anything as I instead bought a investment property (smarter option apparently lol) but it is my lucky day as I have now found out the law's here in perth in regards to motorcycle's a learner can use/own have changed in my favour.

Basically we are now allowed to have motorcycles up to 660cc aslong as they meet certain rules, the goverment has posted a PDF which lists motorcycles that I can buy that meet these: http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/LBU_DL_B_LAMS_Approved_MC.pdf

My question to you guys is what would you choose from that list? Currently I am looking at the Honda CBR500R or the Ducatti M5 Monster but having no experience with bikes I have no idea if there are better ones on there.