TH400 or 6l80e

[COL3SY]

wanting people thoughts on the two and what is the best one to go with.

i have a supercharged VE ssv ute, and going auto is next on the list but still having trouble deciding which one to choose :)

any help and thoughts would be great thanks

[munz]

What about a 4l80e?

http://www.sureshiftautomatics.com.au/a6toa4conversion.htm

[COL3SY]

yeah or that too,
just trying to find out people that have them in the VE and see how they find them to drive around ect

[Wonky]

Andy (HEKYEH) is just in the process of having his dead 6L80E replaced by a TH400 in his blown S2 SSV sedan. Not back on the road yet but if you can wait a bit longer he can give you a first hand impression given he's in Melbourne too. I really know nothing about the TH400 but other "Bookclub" guys who do reckon he's :weirdo:. However, that may be just because they like to give him a hard time. :lol:

[macca_779]

Andy is not nuts wonk. He just wants a box that will actually allow him to go quicker


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[zorro]

Andy is not nuts wonk. He just wants a box that will actually allow him to go quicker


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+2

All the people who think he is nuts obviously have done the conversion themselves and gone slower........ :jerk:

[COL3SY]

Andy (HEKYEH) is just in the process of having his dead 6L80E replaced by a TH400 in his blown S2 SSV sedan. Not back on the road yet but if you can wait a bit longer he can give you a first hand impression given he's in Melbourne too. I really know nothing about the TH400 but other "Bookclub" guys who do reckon he's :weirdo:. However, that may be just because they like to give him a hard time. :lol:

yeah i can wait not in a rush atm, just trying to see what other VE owners have done, but is defs on the to do list for me :)

[duke5700]

There is bugger all guys into the 10s with the 6l80e, think Joel did it with that 427 thing and there might be some other?

The info is a little thin on the ground. A T400 has been done a few times into VE's, mainly guys with bigger than usual setups chasing some decent times.

[COL3SY]

yeah im just over the manual, take off are shit lol just spins the wheels. iv got 420rwkw and i want to be able to put it down, and take it to calder and finally see what it can do :)

[whi739]

Hey mate, i have done the conversion and it was the best thing i ever done, i had so many ppl telling me it would be sh*t on the street and all this other crap, but can tell you now it is so smooth and damn with a good stallie goes hard.

I will actaully get a video today inside the car driving and post up for ya to see just what i mean on how smooth it is.

[Tre-Cool]

There is bugger all guys into the 10s with the 6l80e, think Joel did it with that 427 thing and there might be some other?

The info is a little thin on the ground. A T400 has been done a few times into VE's, mainly guys with bigger than usual setups chasing some decent times.

the drags dont open up until september over here, but i have plans for my own ssv to run 10's on street tyres with the A6.

[COL3SY]

if you could do that, that would be awesome :)
how much did it costly roughly if you dont mind me asking

[bush_basha]

Hey mate, i have done the conversion and it was the best thing i ever done, i had so many ppl telling me it would be sh*t on the street and all this other crap, but can tell you now it is so smooth and damn with a good stallie goes hard.

I will actaully get a video today inside the car driving and post up for ya to see just what i mean on how smooth it is.

which did you do mate the th400 or 6 speed? do you have a rough cost if you don't mind and where did you get most of the items.

[jezza85]

I'm running a built 6l80E behind my whipple blown ute, it was alot cheaper for me just to rebuild my current auto then to go a TH400, but if I was going for 1/4 mile times I would go with the TH400, the 6l80E is just a bit more street friendly for an every day car.

[COL3SY]

Who did u get to do yours?
Mines manual so that's why I'm wondering which one to go with

[jezza85]

HP-F built mine, for me to convert to a TH400 was more then double the cost.

[duke5700]

Be good to see, someone needs to do it.


the drags dont open up until september over here, but i have plans for my own ssv to run 10's on street tyres with the A6.

[ittwgn]

i run a t400 in my vx full manual its, great !!!! the only thing is getting used to no overdrive !!!!! seeing you already have a 6 speed manual just drive around in 4th which is 1 to 1 the same as 3rd in t400 !!! will give you an idea of revs etc with your current diff gears!!!!! cheers also my mechanic russo performance have built a tt ve gts which made 1040 rwhp thru a built 6l80e didn,t last tho!!! its undergoing t400 conversion now!!!!

[HOLDAN]

I have a built 6L80E with a range of parts from PATC in the states. It's sitting behind a 402ci stroker making 531 rwhp. Goes great. Built by Tery at Paramount Performance in Toowoomba (Qld).

[whi739]

Hey mate made a video today but just now as i put it up on the computer it for some reason says there is no file, so i will go for a quick lap and record it around the street just for you to see how smooth and street freindly it is and then make a longer one 2moz.

[whi739]

Here a quick video just to show how the T400 conversion is and how street friendly and smooth.
This is with a very big cam, 4.11 diff gears, 4500stall and T400....all the stuff people say isnt street friendly :P



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttu1d6RcwIM

[whi739]

Also, i dont know how much the 6l80e costs to get built but for a already manual car this means buying all the conversion wiring to have the box work, shifter, actual gearbox then need to get that built, tailshaft, stall, tuning for the auto. and extras like trans cooler.
this is all the stuff i looked at when wanting to go Auto and even then i wasnt guaranteed that the box wouldnt break!!!

The Th400 conversion is alot more simple due to the fact that the box is more like a manual ie. no electrics needed.
-The th400 already built and ready to go in -around $3000ish depending on which box you want to go
-Stall convertor- $1000-$1500 depending what brand and how much u want to spend(might aswell get the best you can)
-Custom Tailshaft -$800
-trans cooler/lines & fittings -$300
-B&M shifter -$270
-then the few lil things like L98 flex plate, cooler fittings, trans dipstick and thats about everything
*all these prices are quick rough prices of what i paid. will have to look at labour aswell if not fitting yourself and will probably need a lil touch up tune but nothing like a full tune again that getting a electric auto will need due to needing to tune the auto aswell.

Pretty much after selling gearbox,clutch,shifter. cost me around $3000 out of pocket

[phat_6ltr]

Here a quick video just to show how the T400 conversion is and how street friendly and smooth.
This is with a very big cam, 4.11 diff gears, 4500stall and T400....all the stuff people say isnt street friendly :P



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttu1d6RcwIM

Very helpful vid there mate, what's the revs sit at doin 100kph?

[COL3SY]

Thanks mate that help heaps :-)
Yeah very big cam indeed lol bouncing around on idle lol!!
Looks very drivable,
I probz keep the 3.45 gears 3k stall should be perfect thanks for your help!
Yeah what rpm is it sitting at on 100km with the 411s

[whi739]

Very helpful vid there mate, what's the revs sit at doin 100kph?
Hey mate thanks, the car roughly sits on around 3500ish @100km/h. i will go for a drive soon and just check to make sure.


Thanks mate that help heaps :-)
Yeah very big cam indeed lol bouncing around on idle lol!!
Looks very drivable,
I probz keep the 3.45 gears 3k stall should be perfect thanks for your help!
Yeah what rpm is it sitting at on 100km with the 4.11s

Yeah lets just say with the cam and clutch alot of people that i had let drive just looked at me and said how can u drive this around town lol, i even put 4.11's to help it out but still people thought i was crazy with such a big cam etc. but since doin the auto conversion it is just so nice and easy to drive, and now i dont mind getting red lights lol, before with the manual it was my mission to not get red lights :P
Yeah defs 3.45's and smaller cam will make the car even better, i only keep the 4.11's as they where already in and thought may aswell try them and they work perfectly for how the car is now, but will be changing them when stroker and gas go in.
It sits on roughly 3500ish but i can go for a drive later and confirm this.....easy way to see what it will sit on in top gear is go on the highway and stay in 4th gear, you dont have a stall so wont be dead on it but it will give a rough indication.


I hope this all heaps people out with making the decision if they want to go the Th400 way or not.

Cheers,
Whitey

[SilverVH]

I have a built 6L80E with a range of parts from PATC in the states. It's sitting behind a 402ci stroker making 531 rwhp. Goes great. Built by Tery at Paramount Performance in Toowoomba (Qld).

Now we need a video of yours for comparison purposes :p

Seems like the camp is split between the 3spd and 6spd.

[ittwgn]

good vid whi 739 mine is very similar!!! the only other weird thing to get used to is the no engine braking as you can see in video when you back off totally it goes into a nuetral like state and returns to idle revs if you let it !!!! is your transbrake setup mine is on a button on shifter that i have to hold down to get reverse and keep holding it !!! let button go and it goes in nuetral !!! takes a bit of practise in tight carparks etc!!! i run 3.45 diff gears for more mph with my power at the drags!!!! cheers

[HOLDAN]

Now we need a video of yours for comparison purposes :p

Seems like the camp is split between the 3spd and 6spd.

OK Good idea - I'll put one together on the saturday.

[whi739]

good vid whi 739 mine is very similar!!! the only other weird thing to get used to is the no engine braking as you can see in video when you back off totally it goes into a nuetral like state and returns to idle revs if you let it !!!! is your transbrake setup mine is on a button on shifter that i have to hold down to get reverse and keep holding it !!! let button go and it goes in nuetral !!! takes a bit of practise in tight carparks etc!!! i run 3.45 diff gears for more mph with my power at the drags!!!! cheers

thanks mate. will try and get a in-car vid at the drags and how it behaves on the strip.

Yeah defs felt weird the first time not having engine braking. I dont have my transbrake setup yet all it needs is the button installed as the wires are there waiting. Do you have to use the transbrake to get into gears when its setup? i just thought you hold it down it then puts it in first and reverse gears simultaneously letting the engine rev and have load but not transfering to the running gear until you let go of the button? sorry just never actually used a trans brake before.

Yeah i defs need to change the diff gears once i go the next step but the 4.11's with the cars setup right now is dead perfect for drags as it crosses in peak power, but thinking soon will go 3.7's.

How much power does your car have if u dont mind me asking, just wanna see if maybe better i go down to 3.45's if i go close to the power with the next step.

[ittwgn]

hi mate transbrake will only engage when your already in 1st !!!!! pushing button acts as reverse when your in nuetral and as said you have to hold it down and reverse one handed !!let it go it goes nuetral !!!!! i havn,t been game to try it at drags too many towtrucks home already!!! haha !!! mines in getting bigger turbo /heads /manifold and e85 as we speak so will have some more power soon !!! with 3.7s i went 9.738 @ 140.8mph so far with 3.45s 9.730@144mph @ 4000pd race weight !!! so there,s a few rwhp,s there!!!! cheers

[whi739]

hi mate transbrake will only engage when your already in 1st !!!!! pushing button acts as reverse when your in nuetral and as said you have to hold it down and reverse one handed !!let it go it goes nuetral !!!!! i havn,t been game to try it at drags too many towtrucks home already!!! haha !!! mines in getting bigger turbo /heads /manifold and e85 as we speak so will have some more power soon !!! with 3.7s i went 9.738 @ 140.8mph so far with 3.45s 9.730@144mph @ 4000pd race weight !!! so there,s a few rwhp,s there!!!! cheers

ahhh yep that sounds right then, yeah thats the reason i havnt hooked mine up yet cause im getting good launch's already and dont wanna shock the system and be on a tow truck home :P
Sounds like its goin to smash its old times which are already impressive. well its good to see the 3.7's still letting you trap 140mph so that should be good for me as next setup i think i'll only be seeing low to mid 130's.....defs a few rwhp there lol :P got to hate how heavy some of our cars are when u look at the jap cars pushing big horsepower and only weighing just over a tonne lol, oh well got to love our dirty v8 commy's :P

[VEJerry]

Some crazy talk in this thread with regards to streetable cars and 6 speeds imo.

The 4l80 is is a real option for serious cars (above 700rwhp) but with a 6l80 truthfully its generally turbo torque that murders them. Many a 6l80 box around that will cop a 2300 blower, however the extra torque a good turbo setup will have you waiting for a tow truck if you drive it hard... yes it is a matter of time usually.

However if it is a GENUINE street car ( ie you drive it to work every day) then a 3 speed with no overdrive built in the 70's is not an option. If its a weekend toy then do it properly i reackon ie solid cam, bigger convertor, cage t400 etc. Really, it either is or it isn't otherwise you end up with the worst of both worlds.

My ride is capable of much more than i can throw at it now (ls 416, 2 x gt35's) but we have the 6 speed holding reliably (750+rwhp) and i drive it as my only car. Im sure i will be giving up a ton of et at the track but its not a race car....its pretty f**cken off tap for a daily though!...can't wait till powercruise.

Though i just might add before the keyboard experts tell me 750 is not enough for the setup...my stock manifold is an early style and only has a provision (hole size) for 2 bar map sensor....watch this space.

[whi739]

Some crazy talk in this thread with regards to streetable cars and 6 speeds imo.

The 4l80 is is a real option for serious cars (above 700rwhp) but with a 6l80 truthfully its generally turbo torque that murders them. Many a 6l80 box around that will cop a 2300 blower, however the extra torque a good turbo setup will have you waiting for a tow truck if you drive it hard... yes it is a matter of time usually.

However if it is a GENUINE street car ( ie you drive it to work every day) then a 3 speed with no overdrive built in the 70's is not an option. If its a weekend toy then do it properly i reackon ie solid cam, bigger convertor, cage t400 etc. Really, it either is or it isn't otherwise you end up with the worst of both worlds.

My ride is capable of much more than i can throw at it now (ls 416, 2 x gt35's) but we have the 6 speed holding reliably (750+rwhp) and i drive it as my only car. Im sure i will be giving up a ton of et at the track but its not a race car....its pretty f**cken off tap for a daily though!...can't wait till powercruise.

Though i just might add before the keyboard experts tell me 750 is not enough for the setup...my stock manifold is an early style and only has a provision (hole size) for 2 bar map sensor....watch this space.

Hey mate, i do understand what your saying with the A6, 4L80 etc and saying its more streetable, but i have to say the T400 is streetable and even more streetable then my manual it makes the car so much more smoother and power is just there if u want it and you never have to worry about how much power you want to put through them as long as you have a tough one.

I drive my Ve with T400 everyday and everywhere, its my only daily car so if i need to go get bread and milk i take the Ve. I will say when it was manual though i hated having to take it to the shops etc as carparks gave me the sh*ts.

If you wanted an overdrive on it then just get one of these:
http://www.gearvendors.com/hrgm3s.html

Im not saying the t400 is more drivable then a A6 etc just saying that it is very streetable, and its not like my car is setup for drivabiltiy as i have done alot of things everyone says isnt streetable and is built for the drags but find it very easy to drive.

Sounds like your car is going to be a weapon!!!! cant wait to see some vids of it tearing up the strip.

[ls2GTS]

I agree with whi739. As i helped him choose to go down the path of TH400 in a ve as i already done the conversion myself and as he said it has made it totally streetable. I have a solid roller 408 stroker with 4:11, th400 and a 5200rpm converter and i drive it everyday to work and back and if i have to go anywhere i take it. so saying it isnt practical on the street i say otherwise as i love it compared to when i had a manual in the car. Also my car is getting a blown combo put in it and a 2 speed powerglide and will be driven everyday to work and back or to the shops etc. will be changing diff gears to 3.7 or 3.4 due to having the supercharger and making 4:11 useless. I have driven a powerglide car on the street with 3.7 and thats streetable aswell if u get the right gearing for it u wont have no issues as a daily car.

[VEJerry]

Fair call mate ..it all depends on your idea of streetable. I fu**en love a good th400 at the track, super strong & shift beautifully when done right.Allowing them to free rev on back off helps a lot so there is no engine braking.

However on the street they are pigs imo...i recently drove 650 clicks to a mates place in my VE...no way i would want to do that in a turbo 400. A gear vendors could be a risk as well.They are pretty pricey, not that strong and you have to use a pedal/button to turn them on and off every time. Again its up to the individual, im not knocking they just aren't for me.

For those interested on a stock VE 18" tyre at 100kmph with a 3.7 ratio as above a t400 will be revving at 3262rpm. A 6l80 will be at 2176rpm with the same gear ratio.
With my standard VE rear end ratio of 2.92 i will be at 1716rpm.

With my extra 3 gears I guarantee my car leaves the line as hard as the t400 but on the freeway cruising my rpm is nearly half. It's a no brainer for me and the reason i have perservered with building it to hold the power. It has been a process but it seems to be finally paying off.

[VEJerry]

Another thing worth mentioning is cost. 7k or so will get the best of the best from my guy with a 6l80. I dont believe it is as ultimately strong as a t400...they can be built to be 2000hp capable but i only need it to hold 1100 or so & if it does the job..well it does the job!

By the time you buy a box, crossmember & a tailshaft for a t400 i would expect you would have spent at least that, maybe more.

[whi739]

yeah its defs personally choice and thats what it comes down too.

With the revs i think u are out by abit, i have standard 18" ss wheels with standard tyres and i sit on 100km @ 3200-3300 and thats with 4.11's.....with 3.7's it would be around 2900rpm, but yes for high the A6 will always be better option unless you have low diff gears.

It would be awesome if you have found a place to build a 6l80 very tough and to hold at least some decnt power for a long time, and i know many people would be interested if it all turns out good.

The t400 kit aint that bad once u sell ur gearbox, and/or clutch, shifter etc and not to much money out of ur own pocket. alot of the stuff still can be used ie. cross member.

But again if there is a A6 builder out there that is willing to back the work and it does last then they will have alot of business of everyone wanting the 6l80 goin tough but also keeping 6 gears. i hear in the US they have been doin good things with the 6l80 so cant see why we cant have some good one here

[VEJerry]

Thanks mate...some good info in this thread. It should help people decide which is more suitable for them.

Ill take a video of the 6 speed in action & post it up when i get a chance.

[1BEAST2NV]

VEJerry, your 7k price tag, is that including buying the box and the conversion stuff to suit..., or just having it built.

[Wonky]

I know of a few people who've had $3k rebuilds on their own boxes which have failed again relatively soon. Guy at Chev's with a blown 427 stroker in his VE GTS I think had three rebuilds by someone he organised before giving up......... :bawl: Maybe a $7k rebuild with super strong bits is what's needed? :confused:

[1BEAST2NV]

Ive blown 2nd gear on my tremec TR6060 ,for what it was gonna cost to fix, I bought a new box for $3500 fitted, motorvation, skid pan, Drags and track days took its toll on the old one lol

[jono0309]

When you guys say that you would rather strength a 6L80e, what is actually involved in doing this? Are there aftermarket companies making stronger parts? And if so, is it up to the gearbox specialist to choose what aftermarket parts to use?
I can't see the point spending $3k to "strength" a box when the parts being used are aftermarket and might not even be stronger.
I am about to move into a V8 VE (currently have a six) but I will go a auto with a big stally. This is my biggest concern as the last thing I want is a box blowing.

[SilverVH]

When you guys say that you would rather strength a 6L80e, what is actually involved in doing this? Are there aftermarket companies making stronger parts? And if so, is it up to the gearbox specialist to choose what aftermarket parts to use?
I can't see the point spending $3k to "strength" a box when the parts being used are aftermarket and might not even be stronger.
I am about to move into a V8 VE (currently have a six) but I will go a auto with a big stally. This is my biggest concern as the last thing I want is a box blowing.

This page will probably tell you everything you need to know: http://www.transmissioncenter.net/6l80e_performance_transmissions_torque_converters_ parts_6l90e.htm

[HOLDAN]

This page will probably tell you everything you need to know: http://www.transmissioncenter.net/6l80e_performance_transmissions_torque_converters_ parts_6l90e.htm

I bought the Master Kit from PATC minus the TC about a year ago. I bought a custom 2800 TC from TCE. No probs so far.

[2010blackve]

VEJerry can you please give more info what went into your 6l80e to make it hold that power. I am considering going this path.

Cheers

[HOLDAN]

Here is the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&feature=vm&video_id=UucPxNQ_zEo

[SilverVH]

Here is the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&feature=vm&video_id=UucPxNQ_zEo

Link didn't work but this 1 did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UucPxNQ_zEo

Had much trouble with the A6? Pan mods done to it?

Off topic, but who did you get the 3 Aeroforce gauges through? Local or OS?

[Blown 454 AWD]

I'm running a built 6l80E behind my whipple blown ute, it was alot cheaper for me just to rebuild my current auto then to go a TH400, but if I was going for 1/4 mile times I would go with the TH400, the 6l80E is just a bit more street friendly for an every day car.


Jezza you're on the money, 6L80e very friendly on the road, T400 greats drag car, unbreakable box.

GMC has a 6L85e AWD triptronic auto in it, 85 has extra planetary and bigger shafts?

Cheers

Steve

[HOLDAN]

Link didn't work but this 1 did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UucPxNQ_zEo

Had much trouble with the A6? Pan mods done to it?

Off topic, but who did you get the 3 Aeroforce gauges through? Local or OS?

Thanks for fixing the link :)

I've had a lot of trouble with the A6. Spent 10k on and it's now working very well. Had a deep tranny pan fabricated including baffles to stop the flaring problem. That worked a treat.

Guages came from Bonners who is a forum member.

[superchargedls1]

My ls1 runs a 2speed glide with the works and is full manual shift they need heaps of torque to work good however.

[evl.346]

Quick question
Can you get a th400 with a overdrive gear?
And do lock up contvertors work? Is my a6 tci convertor compatible?

Cheers

[COL3SY]

i ended up going with the T400 :)
will upload pics of it when i get it back.
thanks everyone for all your help and the vids too :)

[BOBGEN111]

What was ther price for the box and converter to suit the ls1?

[VX-SS-383]

Any pics yet? What have others done for speedo
And tail shaft mods for the turbo 400?
I'm going to do the conversion
Just need to find a turbo 400 and start
Getting parts.

[hsv andrew]

Im the other way round, i have an A6 auto ve gts and want to change it all over to manual, just need a push to do it!