Dear Holden, I'm not happy.....

[zorro]

Dear Holden (or your forum representative),

I am not one for writing letters outside of my employment and if I do it is usually with good news coercing with family or friends who aren't close enough or in the country to see in person. So it brings me great disappointment in putting finger to keyboard to express my displeasure in your product.

Firstly I would like to say that while nobody is perfect I have enjoyed your product over the years, and have been a repeat customer to both Holden & HSV. Now during my early days of Holden ownership I did have the unfortunate instance of needing to stop on the side of the road and change a tire. While having the necessary equipment to do this it was really prehistoric and surprisingly amazing that noone has had a car drop whilst performing a tire change. But hey if it ain't broke don't fix it, right?

Through this I took it upon myself to arm my vehicles with a small trolley jack from that point on and all was great....... Until this Friday afternoon where I would be left shocked, amazed and missing skin!!!

It started this morning when my lovely partner called to let me know she had a flat, not your issue possibly a stray nail, and as I had been in bed ill I sent a friend to help. Now again a small issue out of your control is we didn't have the standard wheel nuts on board so couldn't change the tire straight away. So I dragged myself out of bed, found some nuts and went on my way to change the tire as our friend had other things to do. Opened the boot, lifted the floor and what do I see, yes that is right on a VE commodore (this is well in the 2000's you know), you guessed right a scissor jack and now in some form of idiocy a C-channel lever with a hook attached to in a guess to wind the jack up. So out it came and along with the rain I attempted to get the front of the car up. ARE YOU FOR REAL?? IS THIS A JOKE??? DO YOU THINK EVERYONE OUT THERE IS A FEMALE BELARUSIAN SHOT PUTTER???

I'm not a small person and am pretty competent on the tools but really what a joke this is. Bugger all leverage and to be honest I would not expect my missus to be able to carry out this procedure with this poor thinking on Holden's behalf. Why have we not moved forward and taken a hint from zee Germans, poke into the hole and spin the handle, car goes up car goes down, simple?

So the result of this poor design, which like a previous Holden scissor jack threaded itself and has given up operation, will you replace under warranty? And while I take out the time for us not having the std nuts in the car, it has taken me over an hour to change this tire, sick, missing skin off knuckles, in the rain AND having to drive home and back to collect a trolley jack to finish the job.

That is all, but please for the future maybe consider more for the owner as while it doesn't happen frequently it will happen.

Thanks, Ash

[SCiFiRE]

I'm not a fan of the crappy scissor jacks either (and avoid using them whenever i can), and the design of the handle is pretty damn lame. I have to say though; If you had that much trouble the thing must've been faulty. I've had to use these scissor jacks on multiple occasions and it's never been a struggle. It takes a while to get the thing up (a lot of winds), but never been difficult.

[macca_779]

The VT has a hex fitting. Not really better or worse on the side of the road, but combined with a rattle gun far better than the hook style to get the car up enough to slide a trolley jack under


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[steve_t]

LOL @ Belarusian Shotputter :)

[markone2]

Could be worse...ever try to change a *Factory* fitted wheel on the back of a VE Maloo with supplied hardware.......an thats at factory ride height....not good imho


.

[redvxr8clubby]

This would not be a problem if you had a Ford Fiesta, you would open the boot to find no jack and no spare wheel, just a can of goo and and a pump.

[JezzaB]

Ive had to use the "device" they call a scissor jack handle on my VE to change a flat and all I can say is I had no skin left and was bleeding by the end of it. I could live with the older jack "spinners" but this thing is a joke. You turn it half a turn and its fine and then try and flip it around and the sharp sides and the angle cuts you up.

[ssv402]

Surely ve owners would be able to force holden to re-engineer and replace the unit if it harms people in the process of doing its intended job.

Holden is probably dreading the day an OH&S lawyer buys a ve and has to change a tyre...

[steve_t]

This would not be a problem if you had a Ford Fiesta, you would open the boot to find no jack and no spare wheel, just a can of goo and and a pump.

Isn't it the same with the Redline editions?

[vicarious]

Could be worse...ever try to change a *Factory* fitted wheel on the back of a VE Maloo with supplied hardware.......an thats at factory ride height....not good imho


.

done it on a sv6 ute and it was a pain in the arse, it took longer to get the jack out & put back from behind the seat than change the tyre.

[2010blackve]

done it on a sv6 ute and it was a pain in the arse, it took longer to get the jack out & put back from behind the seat than change the tyre.

You ain't kidding. Jack out 30seconds, jack back in 5 minutes to get it aligned behind the driver seat.

[Xjas]

I agree the VE system is a PITA, I am a member of NRMA for exactly the reasons you've listed, no way do I want my wife outside in the rain by the side of the road trying to change a tyre, too may other morons out there with licenses that cant drive not to mention the risk of the car falling off the jack if not used correctly. My instructions to her are slow to walking pace, put the hazzards on and drive the car to a safe spot, ring the NRMA and wait. If I'm in the car its a different story, I am to pig headed to let someone else change a tyre for me so I would persist with the PITA jack no matter how much skin I loose.

[Red Beard]

Extra brownie points to all those who carry a pair of old gloves in the car, to prevent skinned knuckles, or burns if checking something on a hot motor. I even had to pull a crow out of the lower intake once, tried to peck me as I reached for it, lucky bastard got to fly away.

[Stampy]

The VE Maloo would have the worst ever spare tyre setup in the world, I ended up taking the spare out of that stupid crane assembly and chucking it in the back with a strop, and as for those poxy wheelnut cover's, it's like sticking a sock down your undies!!!

[Green Grenade]

The VE Maloo would have the worst ever spare tyre setup in the world, I ended up taking the spare out of that stupid crane assembly and chucking it in the back with a strop, and as for those poxy wheelnut cover's, it's like sticking a sock down your undies!!!

I'm with you stampy - plus it's easier to check the spare tire pressure when you do the others. Soon as I lowered the SS rear it was easier to have it in the back and I have the jack secured under the wheel to save another 5 frustrating minutes...

Cheers

John

[VYSHSV8]

Problem fixed call RAC :)

But yes I know what you mean Ash they are a piece of crap and the backs bite and bite hard :(

But the best jack I have come across is the One that you slide in to a channel and then lift car up aka a small high lift 4wd jack style :) takes a min to jack up

[macca_779]

Problem fixed call RAC :)

But yes I know what you mean Ash they are a piece of crap and the backs bite and bite hard :(

But the best jack I have come across is the One that you slide in to a channel and then lift car up aka a small high lift 4wd jack style :) takes a min to jack up

BMW style. Yeah they are nice


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[planetdavo]

Let's be honest- 95% of people will use their roadside assistance to fix it, and pretty much the same 95% wouldn't have even looked to see if their car has an alloy spare, a steel spare, a space saver, or a compressor and can of goo. Hell, it's even too much work for most owners these days to even check oil levels, washer bottle levels, and tyre pressures every month. Where's that bonnet release? :eek:
Many cars are increasingly "fixing" the p!ss weak jack issue by getting rid of it altogether. Trust me, it's far more common than many people probably realise...

[steve_t]

Let's be honest- 95% of people will use their roadside assistance to fix it, and pretty much the same 95% wouldn't have even looked to see if their car has an alloy spare, a steel spare, a space saver, or a compressor and can of goo. Hell, it's even too much work for most owners these days to even check oil levels, washer bottle levels, and tyre pressures every month. Where's that bonnet release? :eek:
Many cars are increasingly "fixing" the p!ss weak jack issue by getting rid of it altogether. Trust me, it's far more common than many people probably realise...

Don't you check your tyre pressure and fluids every week, Davo? ;)

[planetdavo]

Don't you check your tyre pressure and fluids every week, Davo? ;)

Depends which car you are talking about.
The weekender hasn't been driven for six weeks now.
The company car gets more regular checks though, because I drive it every day. It even has an alloy spare...:stick:

[XUV]

I'm not a fan of the crappy scissor jacks either (and avoid using them whenever i can), and the design of the handle is pretty damn lame. I have to say though; If you had that much trouble the thing must've been faulty. I've had to use these scissor jacks on multiple occasions and it's never been a struggle. It takes a while to get the thing up (a lot of winds), but never been difficult.

It's sad when you think that the HQ scissor jack , with it's ratchet handle , was more advanced then the current series ....

But like Davo said , we've become a bunch of lazy fuks and a call to roadside service is the norm .

[macca_779]

Depends which car you are talking about.
The weekender hasn't been driven for six weeks now.
The company car gets more regular checks though, because I drive it every day. It even has an alloy spare...:stick:

Wow a Barina with an alloy spare. Holden really is kicking goals


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[VTV691]

I agree with all of u guys as most vehicle manufacturers supply kids toys instead of jacks..(sometimes I would rather use bricks and wood!)
BUT cant understand why people who are car savvy and have ~50-80k cars and have spent at least 20-50k on mods don't have small $50 SCA hydra/trolley jack in their cars to replace the stock shitty one!
(especially if ur mrs is driving the car as well :P - I thought this was against the LS1 forum policy hahaha :stick: Ash )
NRMA/RAC membership does the job if u have spare 45min to sit on side of the road..

just my 2c..

[SICK SS]

id be embarrassed to call road side assistance to change a tyre:limpy:

[heavyduty1340]

I actually had a rear wheel blow out two weeks ago on our way to dinner

Turned up to restaurant looking like I had punched one hand through a window with blood oozing still.

Well what a total piece of crap the jack handle is - I still have the cuts on my hand fron the sharp edges trying their best to guillotine my fingers.

I cant believe in this day and age of people sueing/blaming, that GMH supply this shit and dont end up in court for dodgy crap chopping hands up!!!

Crap will be disposed of!!

[VYSHSV8]

BMW style. Yeah they are nice


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Yep that's the one :) piece of piss to use :)

[VYSHSV8]

Let's be honest- 95% of people will use their roadside assistance to fix it, and pretty much the same 95% wouldn't have even looked to see if their car has an alloy spare, a steel spare, a space saver, or a compressor and can of goo. Hell, it's even too much work for most owners these days to even check oil levels, washer bottle levels, and tyre pressures every month. Where's that bonnet release? :eek:
Many cars are increasingly "fixing" the p!ss weak jack issue by getting rid of it altogether. Trust me, it's far more common than many people probably realise...
Same can be said for a lot of Holden servicing dept's :)

[VYSHSV8]

I actually had a rear wheel blow out two weeks ago on our way to dinner

Turned up to restaurant looking like I had punched one hand through a window with blood oozing still.

Well what a total piece of crap the jack handle is - I still have the cuts on my hand fron the sharp edges trying their best to guillotine my fingers.

I cant believe in this day and age of people sueing/blaming, that GMH supply this shit and dont end up in court for dodgy crap chopping hands up!!!

Crap will be disposed of!!
Yep I know the feeling mate :( yeh they are real scissor slicer, aren't they :(

[planetdavo]

I agree with all of u guys as most vehicle manufacturers supply kids toys instead of jacks..(sometimes I would rather use bricks and wood!)
BUT cant understand why people who are car savvy and have ~50-80k cars and have spent at least 20-50k on mods don't have small $50 SCA hydra/trolley jack in their cars to replace the stock shitty one!
(especially if ur mrs is driving the car as well :P - I thought this was against the LS1 forum policy hahaha :stick: Ash )
NRMA/RAC membership does the job if u have spare 45min to sit on side of the road..

just my 2c..

Sad fact of life these days is that most buyers would base their purchase decision more on how well the latest i-wank integrates with the car's entertainment system than whether the car has a spare wheel or good quality jack.
Everything costs money, and cars are cheaper than ever for what you get, so cost must be pulled out of something. Here is one area that has become popular.
They can play with their apps or shuffle their songs while they wait for roadside assistance to arrive. Just like many people often do everywhere else they go these days.

[macca_779]

Sad fact of life these days is that most buyers would base their purchase decision more on how well the latest i-wank integrates with the car's entertainment system than whether the car has a spare wheel or good quality jack.
Everything costs money, and cars are cheaper than ever for what you get, so cost must be pulled out of something. Here is one area that has become popular.
They can play with their apps or shuffle their songs while they wait for roadside assistance to arrive. Just like many people often do everywhere else they go these days.

BMW has fantastic device integration and a decent jack. Yet the average BMW driver is arguably less likely to ever change a tyre than a commodore driver would. Holden used to have a good jack. If these are the things they do to save a buck, it's quite pathetic and right up there with deleting globes in glove boxes


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[planetdavo]

BMW has fantastic device integration and a decent jack. Yet the average BMW driver is arguably less likely to ever change a tyre than a commodore driver would. Holden used to have a good jack. If these are the things they do to save a buck, it's quite pathetic and right up there with deleting globes in glove boxes


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I guess people paying 50-60K for their small, low powered imported cars should be getting something "better" for their money hey...;)
Let's not even talk about many recent BMW's with their harsh ride from crap run flat tyres and cheap looking interiors with almost no storage space- if you want to compare apples and oranges and all.

[macca_779]

I guess people paying 50-60K for their small, low powered imported cars should be getting something "better" for their money hey...;)
Let's not even talk about many recent BMW's with their harsh ride from crap run flat tyres and cheap looking interiors with almost no storage space- if you want to compare apples and oranges and all.

Yeah because all that money goes to BMW not towards import taxes. Get an idea davo. A GTS in Europe is banging on M5 money. Does it get a better jack then?


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[planetdavo]

Macca must have nothing better to do today than follow davo all over the forum...:lmao:

[macca_779]

Macca must have nothing better to do today than follow davo all over the forum...:lmao:

I just read new posts and add my bit. You are the top troll so it is somewhat inevitable.


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[planetdavo]

Oh dear....
To the OP, if it's so important, write an email directly to Holden Customer Assistance voicing your opinion.

[SSer]

Let's be honest- 95% of people will use their roadside assistance to fix it, and pretty much the same 95% wouldn't have even looked to see if their car has an alloy spare, a steel spare, a space saver, or a compressor and can of goo. Hell, it's even too much work for most owners these days to even check oil levels, washer bottle levels, and tyre pressures every month. Where's that bonnet release? :eek:
Many cars are increasingly "fixing" the p!ss weak jack issue by getting rid of it altogether. Trust me, it's far more common than many people probably realise...

I should probably just leave this alone, but at some point you just have to say something. Your unsubstantiated quoted figures and broad, sweeping, unfounded statements are getting a little boring, repetitive and bland.

[XUV]

BMW has fantastic device integration and a decent jack. Yet the average BMW driver is arguably less likely to ever change a tyre than a commodore driver would. Holden used to have a good jack. If these are the things they do to save a buck, it's quite pathetic and right up there with deleting globes in glove boxes


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no not really , because for the Euro driver changing a wheel is part of the licencing process ( Italy , Switzerland and Germany that I know )

[macca_779]

no not really , because for the Euro driver changing a wheel is part of the licencing process ( Italy , Switzerland and Germany that I know )

Very true, but I was more referring to here where BMW is more of a premium brand and the driver is more likely to have road side assist and use it.


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[XUV]

Very true, but I was more referring to here where BMW is more of a premium brand and the driver is more likely to have road side assist and use it.


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yes , true , but , BMW would know that their customers would be more likely to change a tyre ,
therefore would make the jack more usable/user friendly .

[macca_779]

yes , true , but , BMW would know that their customers would be more likely to change a tyre ,
therefore would make the jack more usable/user friendly .

Good point


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[BEARWOOD]

Its a minimalist device to get you out of trouble on a very rare occasion and it does the job, would you rather Holden save money by having less comfort features or poorer safety options?
I've had the last 4 new Holden models and never had to use the jack once so its not really something you have to put up with.
Its funny how some people who dont even have a VE seem to have the biggest sook and the same people who bag anything possible that Holden do.

[SSer]

Its a minimalist device to get you out of trouble on a very rare occasion and it does the job, would you rather Holden save money by having less comfort features or poorer safety options?
I've had the last 4 new Holden models and never had to use the jack once so its not really something you have to put up with.
Its funny how some people who dont even have a VE seem to have the biggest sook and the same people who bag anything possible that Holden do.

You could just about anywhere with this. ABS is something that I rarely use, but Id rather they not skimp on that either. When you are jacking up a 1800kg car with the shit jack they give you, Id rather they spent the extra and gave me something reliable and easy to use. Ive changed the wheel on my VE twice, and both times it was a frustrating experience.

Who are the "some people" you are referring to exactly?

edit: not needing the jack and just calling NRMA etc is a fairly "city" way of looking at it too. When you are several hundred KM's from the nearest town, and its going to be 2-3hours for NRMA tell me most people wouldn't at least have a go at changing the tyre...

edit: removed safe, as I am sure Holden at least had the thing tested.

[Xjas]

not needing the jack and just calling NRMA etc is a fairly "city" way of looking at it too. When you are several hundred KM's from the nearest town, and its going to be 2-3hours for NRMA tell me most people wouldn't at least have a go at changing the tyre...

You are spot on there, for us city dwellers road side assistance is much more accessable than in the bush, outside of the metro areas you'd have to be a lot more patient or willing to have a go yourself.

[boggers007]

Ill add in that my lancer 2010 has almost the exact same jack as the holdens, Had a flat and had to jack up the car twice in one day. Lets just say that besides the fact id almost ground my knuckles off I was feeling it on my hands for a few weeks after. Informed the service department of the shit jack to be told "you get free roadside service for 3 years why didn't you use that instead"

[V8_Power]

I had the displeasure of changing a tyre on my VY and before the righgt rear was even off the ground, the unused holden jack thread shattered and dropped the car. I shudder to think what the outcome would have been if I had managed to get the tyre off and had my hands in the wrong place and I'm not talking about down my pants!

Holden wanted 140 bucks for a new one and refused to replace the jack saying I must have over loaded it. Thing is rated at 1600kg safe lifting capacity but cant even lift 1/4 of a Commodore? Turn it up Holden.

[zorro]

Its a minimalist device to get you out of trouble on a very rare occasion and it does the job, would you rather Holden save money by having less comfort features or poorer safety options?
I've had the last 4 new Holden models and never had to use the jack once so its not really something you have to put up with.
Its funny how some people who dont even have a VE seem to have the biggest sook and the same people who bag anything possible that Holden do.

I dont know who you are referring to exactly but fwiw I have a VZ Senator, VE R8, FG XR6 and up until recently a VE SS in the driveway. This instance was changing the R8, in the past Ive had to do the same car, a VT, VS, VU and anything else that uses one of these rubbish devices.

Id rather them do what they do and keep the owner safe and also if the time comes be able to change a bloody flat tire without wrestling the equipment and cutting one self up at the same time!

[Wonky]

Problem fixed call RAC :)

Much as I hate to admit it, due to my disabilities now that would be my recourse in case of a problem, though last time I had a flat was 2003 (touch wood!!). The RACV can worry about how to get the spare out on my lowered ute - I gather it won't be easy. :D

[Ausmartin1]

What about jacks supplied for japanese commercial vehicles - they look like little hydraulic jacks but are actually mechanical.
Yes slow to wind up down - need bar and handle - yes two more things to loose but they work.
The Volt from yhe USA is comming with no spare but a compressor and goo. Americas are using tyre plugs for nail screw type holes to avoid using the goo but for a major failure goo won't do nothing.
A spare wheel tyre would then be nice ....
Is space and fuel consumption coupled with lazy people so common these days that the spares been given the flick?
I was left speachless when I found the wheel barrow emergency spare aka space saver in a japanese car.
Surely a car fitted with these can't be road worthy - more like a death trap - it's not even like the same diameter!
I am simply amazed that motoring journos can dictate to public.

Nice post and yes agree with the knuckle grinder comments, I found it did the job - but you had to be carefull with it & wondered how the non mechanical types in society would survive or people in a hurry stuck say on the side of a freeway would go with this no expence spared design LOL!

[timbo888]

Its a minimalist device to get you out of trouble on a very rare occasion and it does the job, would you rather Holden save money by having less comfort features or poorer safety options?

or they could whack an extra $20 - $50 on the price of a new car and put a decent jack in the car.

i have used the VE jack at home in the garage just to see how well it worked on a good level surface rather than finding out at night in the rain - it was shit. the new folding handle is a pain in the butt, what was wrong with the older style round handle that you could spin in your hand instead of doing 180 and starting again..

[motorin on]

I was told the reason there is a goo pump is to lower the kerb weight of the vehicle to help improve it's rating in regards to it's fuel consumption and green credentials
My AU XR6 only had a spacesaver spare limited to 80k/hr,takes a long time to do 150 klm's,and isn't nice with a semi up the rear and in a hurry

[VL_Calais]

anyone have pics of said device?

i had to use my VZ jack the other day as mine wouldnt fit under the rear when swapping wheels over and had no problems at all, worked well though when i realised i was going to have to use it i wasnt too keen but was fine.

[heavyduty1340]

Its a minimalist device to get you out of trouble on a very rare occasion and it does the job, would you rather Holden save money by having less comfort features or poorer safety options?
I've had the last 4 new Holden models and never had to use the jack once so its not really something you have to put up with.
Its funny how some people who dont even have a VE seem to have the biggest sook and the same people who bag anything possible that Holden do.

F@ck me - for the price we pay, I want some quality control - the jack is crap!!!

There is no easy way out except GMH are tight pricks!

Its not even fair to give em to tight ass Omega buyers

[V8_Power]

[QUOTE=Ausmartin1;2037249]What about jacks supplied for japanese commercial vehicles - they look like little hydraulic jacks but are actually mechanical.
Yes slow to wind up down - need bar and handle - yes two more things to loose but they work.

My mum's holden belmont had one of these when i was a kid. at lest the damn thing worked. Anyone remember the HJ kingswood jack that used to attach to the slots in the front and rear bumper bars? looked like one of those suckers u see 4x4 guys using these days!

[Toddler78]

Pre VE I personally have no problems with my Holden supplied scissor jack, however the hook type ones are a POS. Unfortunately in this day and age I would be surprised if 90% of the public could change a tyre anyway. It is a lost art these days for people to be able to problem solve and fix things for themselves, they either get someone else to do it or buy a new one. Personally I think part of the driving course in order to get your license you should be able to perform simple preventative maintence like check oil and water, tyre pressures and change a tyre. Holden and other manufacturers probably have realised this years ago and realise that 90% of their customer base are not going to know how to change a tyre therefore have no need for a jack.

[steve_t]

I was left speachless when I found the wheel barrow emergency spare aka space saver in a japanese car.
Surely a car fitted with these can't be road worthy - more like a death trap - it's not even like the same diameter!


If you look at those 'space saver' spare tyres, they say something like "Do not exceed 50km/h" or something like that.

[HSVREDSLED]

My SSV Series 2 Sportwagon (non redline) doesnt have a spare or jack. Compressor and glue in the wheel well. Not sure how it will go if I blow the side wall off a tyre?

[Woodchukka]

I was told the reason there is a goo pump is to lower the kerb weight of the vehicle to help improve it's rating in regards to it's fuel consumption and green credentials
My AU XR6 only had a spacesaver spare limited to 80k/hr,takes a long time to do 150 klm's,and isn't nice with a semi up the rear and in a hurry

Someone I knew changed their tyre at night and did not notice the speed limit warning on the space saver tyre which they had never heard of before (it was a good while ago) and were tearing about at the full 100km/h speed limit :eek:. It was only the next morning when they noticed the warning label on it. So they may have been safer with a crappy jack rather than the possibility of having an accident at speed and maybe involving another vehicle.

[HSVREDSLED]

Someone I knew changed their tyre at night and did not notice the speed limit warning on the space saver tyre which they had never heard of before (it was a good while ago) and were tearing about at the full 100km/h speed limit :eek:. It was only the next morning when they noticed the warning label on it. So they may have been safer with a crappy jack rather than the possibility of having an accident at speed and maybe involving another vehicle.

The speed rating on my yellow spare wheel in my old VY clubby was rated higher than the tyres I had on it! They advised 80km max due to the fact it was a 17 inch spare and my tyres were 18's. I heard somewhere once that when HSV went from 17's to 18's there was a heap of 17's left, so out with the yellow paint and voila' instant spare wheels for the 18 inch series.

[SSer]

anyone have pics of said device?

i had to use my VZ jack the other day as mine wouldnt fit under the rear when swapping wheels over and had no problems at all, worked well though when i realised i was going to have to use it i wasnt too keen but was fine.

If noone else has posted a picture by the time I get home I will post one up.

[xthommox]

Ive had to use the "device" they call a scissor jack handle on my VE to change a flat and all I can say is I had no skin left and was bleeding by the end of it. I could live with the older jack "spinners" but this thing is a joke. You turn it half a turn and its fine and then try and flip it around and the sharp sides and the angle cuts you up.

Ditto. Nearly lost a finger(s) using that bloody jack handle thing. With a car the size of a commodore you'd think they'd give you something that was fixed and was 2 foot longer to actually get some leverage. It's not like theyre lacking for room in the boot.

I was sweating like a pig and of course my hands were slippery so I nearly brought the lever of the jack handle down onto my other hand several times. I could picture having to collect my severed fingers from the dirt on the side of the road and taking them to the hospital!

Obviously this bloody thing was designed by some pony tailed latte sipping 20yo engineer fresh out of uni. IT DOESNT WORK YOU IDIOTS!

[the big fist]

[QUOTE=Ausmartin1;2037249]What about jacks supplied for japanese commercial vehicles - they look like little hydraulic jacks but are actually mechanical.
Yes slow to wind up down - need bar and handle - yes two more things to loose but they work.

My mum's holden belmont had one of these when i was a kid. at lest the damn thing worked. Anyone remember the HJ kingswood jack that used to attach to the slots in the front and rear bumper bars? looked like one of those suckers u see 4x4 guys using these days!

I got one of those with my Valiant ! Great little jack.

[BEARWOOD]

Ye the jack is shit and so is the missing glovebox light and so is the interior plastics and so is the cheap feeling leather and so is the placement of the centre cupholders (manuals) and so is the missing boot lid liner and the list could probably go on depending who you are but seriously is it that big of a deal?
Once they fix the jack there will be something else thats not to some peoples standards but maybe these are some things you need to take into consideration when buying a car if its a big enough problem or negotiate an extra $50 off so you can go and buy something that suits you.

Not singling anyone out but in general theres alot of whinging and bagging Holden on here these days and it's sad and boring and to be honest i don't really know what the point of the thread is???

[V8_Power]

Ye the jack is shit and so is the missing glovebox light and so is the interior plastics and so is the cheap feeling leather and so is the placement of the centre cupholders (manuals) and so is the missing boot lid liner and the list could probably go on depending who you are but seriously is it that big of a deal?
Once they fix the jack there will be something else thats not to some peoples standards but maybe these are some things you need to take into consideration when buying a car if its a big enough problem or negotiate an extra $50 off so you can go and buy something that suits you.

Not singling anyone out but in general theres alot of whinging and bagging Holden on here these days and it's sad and boring and to be honest i don't really know what the point of the thread is???

When you get down off that high horse of yours, you might realise that a jack is a device that is required to change a tyre, something that has been around since the dawn of motor cars. I don't see any whinging about missing boot linings or glove box lights. It's a bloody jack and it should work without failing when you are in a bind.

[VYBerlinaV8]

The Commo is a large, well featured vehicle at a cheap price. It is entirely normal to expect cost cutting measures to be apparent.

[BEARWOOD]

[QUOTE=V8_Power;2037317]When you get down off that high horse of yours, you might realise that a jack is a device that is required to change a tyre, something that has been around since the dawn of motor cars. I don't see any whinging about missing boot linings or glove box lights. It's a bloody jack and it should work without failing when you are in a bind.[/QUOTE

Well aren't you captain obvious.

If it's such a problem why have they been in the VE for 6 years now, obviously the failure rate is less in the real world than it is on an internet forum.
Haven't you noticed the world around you changing over the years and the quality of just about everything is controlled by a budget of some sort.
Like i said, if it's such an issue do something about it because complaining here won't change anything.
The jack failing and not working at all is completly different to it being a dodgy poor design that gets you out of trouble on that very rare occasion you need it.

[planetdavo]

Careful Bearwood, you are seriously at risk of being as "popular" with the peanut gallery as I am, for doing the unthinkable of using logic! :lmao:
People love to blame someone else for nearly everything that happens these days, and often (in this car example) totally fail to grasp the concept of cost-cutting for all affordable mainstream cars. What can REALISTICALLY be expected for Holden RRP's, rather than pie in the sky fantasies?
Continuing on from what I said earlier about the vast majority of people having no idea what sort of spare or otherwise is in their boot, and hardly anyone bothers changing their flat tyre themselves anymore, we have exhibit...
a- How many people have read their owners manual on the correct procedure to change the tyre upon purchasing the car, or is everyone a limp excuse of a man for doing so- so the first time you exhibit your manly DIY "skills" is doing so on the side of the road, maybe in the dark, maybe in the rain, maybe on uneven dirt, maybe late for a root, or whatever?
b- How many VE's have had flat tyres, with the owner suffering none of the horrendous knuckle carving as described in this thread?
c- How many of the people changing their spares have shredded their knuckles because they were angry and p!ssed off with the world for getting their first flat tyre in the last 10 years?
d- How many with shredded hands were from people simply trying to rush the job?
e- Why do none of the above types blame the tyre manufacturer for making a sub-standard product prone to puncturing? Sh!t, surely if we can send people into space then puncture proof tyres should be a piece of p!ss right!
And finally...
f- Why do people sook to like-minded internet types, rather than putting their name forward to the manufacturer and making their anger known to those that build the damn cars to begin with?!!!

[SSer]

Careful Bearwood, you are seriously at risk of being as "popular" with the peanut gallery as I am, for doing the unthinkable of using logic! :lmao:
People love to blame someone else for nearly everything that happens these days, and often (in this car example) totally fail to grasp the concept of cost-cutting for all affordable mainstream cars. What can REALISTICALLY be expected for Holden RRP's, rather than pie in the sky fantasies?
Continuing on from what I said earlier about the vast majority of people having no idea what sort of spare or otherwise is in their boot, and hardly anyone bothers changing their flat tyre themselves anymore, we have exhibit...
a- How many people have read their owners manual on the correct procedure to change the tyre upon purchasing the car, or is everyone a limp excuse of a man for doing so- so the first time you exhibit your manly DIY "skills" is doing so on the side of the road, maybe in the dark, maybe in the rain, maybe on uneven dirt, maybe late for a root, or whatever?
b- How many VE's have had flat tyres, with the owner suffering none of the horrendous knuckle carving as described in this thread?
c- How many of the people changing their spares have shredded their knuckles because they were angry and p!ssed off with the world for getting their first flat tyre in the last 10 years?
d- How many with shredded hands were from people simply trying to rush the job?
e- Why do none of the above types blame the tyre manufacturer for making a sub-standard product prone to puncturing? Sh!t, surely if we can send people into space then puncture proof tyres should be a piece of p!ss right!
And finally...
f- Why do people sook to like-minded internet types, rather than putting their name forward to the manufacturer and making their anger known to those that build the damn cars to begin with?!!!

More random garbage...

[planetdavo]

More random garbage...

Cheers! :goodjob:

Some more "random garbage" for you.

Opinions are like @rseholes- everybody's got one.
:)

[Xjas]

If it's such a problem why have they been in the VE for 6 years now, obviously the failure rate is less in the real world than it is on an internet forum.
Haven't you noticed the world around you changing over the years and the quality of just about everything is controlled by a budget of some sort.
Like i said, if it's such an issue do something about it because complaining here won't change anything.
The jack failing and not working at all is completly different to it being a dodgy poor design that gets you out of trouble on that very rare occasion you need it.

I thought the point of the thread was that it was a poor design resulting in smashed knuckles rather than an actual failure. Cost cutting is an excuse for poor (or perhaps lower) build quality but its no excuse for a poor design to begin with, I think the most likely reason for a poor design would be that GMs best and brightest engineers are doing things more important that designing jacks.

[SSer]

Cheers! :goodjob:

Some more "random garbage" for you.

Opinions are like @rseholes- everybody's got one.
:)

Lets look at a few things will we? You seem hell bent on quoting random figures, and what can only be assumed to be narrow minded guesses. Do you have any official figures on any of your points? Hell even unofficial research? Im fairly sure I would struggle to find someone out this way who point blank couldnt evem attempt to change a tyre, or had little to no idea at least how to go about it.

As someone who is pseudo representing a company, you are definitely not doing a good job. Your close minded views dont really add anything at all. A quick search through your posts reveals that 86.45% of your posts are just plain pointless, other than playing devils advocate. I think the only solid point you have made so far is that anyone really concerned about it should contact Holden directly. Its a good point, but have you talked to your local dealer lately? Mine couldnt give a stuff about anything I say beyond asking "cheque, savings or credit". I could call a hotline, but why should I need to?

As for why we care so much, its because if we dont make points like this, then where does it end? I think from the posts supporting the fact that the jack is shit far outweigh you and one other. Sure the jack is now shit, and theres no globe in the glove box. But where does the cost cutting end?

[VoodooSS]

Can't believe I am about to subscribe to a thread about feckin jacks!

[planetdavo]

I thought the point of the thread was that it was a poor design resulting in smashed knuckles rather than an actual failure. Cost cutting is an excuse for poor (or perhaps lower) build quality but its no excuse for a poor design to begin with, I think the most likely reason for a poor design would be that GMs best and brightest engineers are doing things more important that designing jacks.

Quite possibly, but at the end of the day you will never make everyone happy. 99% of people could be happy with how it works as intended, but you will always hear from the 1% that have an issue, whether it's the manufacturers fault or it's the way the operator is incorrectly using something. Those not complaining usually just get on with their lives...

[VoodooSS]

Quite possibly, but at the end of the day you will never make everyone happy. 99% of people could be happy with how it works as intended, but you will always hear from the 1% that have an issue, whether it's the manufacturers fault or it's the way the operator is incorrectly using something. Those not complaining usually just get on with their lives...

I seriously doubt 99% of people are happy how the jack works...well those that have had a flat before anyway

[planetdavo]

Lets look at a few things will we? You seem hell bent on quoting random figures, and what can only be assumed to be narrow minded guesses. Do you have any official figures on any of your points? Hell even unofficial research? Im fairly sure I would struggle to find someone out this way who point blank couldnt evem attempt to change a tyre, or had little to no idea at least how to go about it.

As someone who is pseudo representing a company, you are definitely not doing a good job. Your close minded views dont really add anything at all. A quick search through your posts reveals that 86.45% of your posts are just plain pointless, other than playing devils advocate. I think the only solid point you have made so far is that anyone really concerned about it should contact Holden directly. Its a good point, but have you talked to your local dealer lately? Mine couldnt give a stuff about anything I say beyond asking "cheque, savings or credit". I could call a hotline, but why should I need to?

As for why we care so much, its because if we dont make points like this, then where does it end? I think from the posts supporting the fact that the jack is shit far outweigh you and one other. Sure the jack is now shit, and theres no globe in the glove box. But where does the cost cutting end?

If it's so important you wont sleep tonight, how about you ring every motoring organisation in the country and ask them how many flats they fix on cars with perfectly functional spares and jacks... :idea:
I've probably got much better things to do tonight...like sleeping. :)
PS: MY 2011 VE has a glovebox light. :stick:

[planetdavo]

I seriously doubt 99% of people are happy how the jack works...well those that have had a flat before anyway

Quite possibly, but then, if you believed that minority internet forums represented the majority of the car buying community, you'd probably believe that 99% of Holden enthusiasts hate everything about Holden's! :bawl:
Why are "enthusiasts" such a bunch of sad sacks sometimes? Nothing better to do in life than hate something?

[Plenty]

Late to the party here but i'll buy in.....The jack Farking sucks in the VE! It's that bad that when i needed to jack the VE up i used the old busted up jack from the VT, just so i could put a socket and ratchet on it!

[steve_t]

Quite possibly, but then, if you believed that minority internet forums represented the majority of the car buying community, you'd probably believe that 99% of Holden enthusiasts hate everything about Holden's! :bawl:
Why are "enthusiasts" such a bunch of sad sacks sometimes? Nothing better to do in life than hate something?

Consider it passionately delivered constructive criticism ;)

[planetdavo]

Consider it passionately delivered constructive criticism ;)


Car making is a mugs game. So many people lining up to nit pick at your years of work. It's very easy to judge other people's work when you don't put your own work out there to be judged hey. ;)

[VoodooSS]

Quite possibly, but then, if you believed that minority internet forums represented the majority of the car buying community, you'd probably believe that 99% of Holden enthusiasts hate everything about Holden's! :bawl:
Why are "enthusiasts" such a bunch of sad sacks sometimes? Nothing better to do in life than hate something?

I do agree with most of that, but is it really that hard to agree that the jack is woeful at best? Holden need to do something about the pos...really

[GKW]

Okay, yes the VE scissor jack ain't the greatest bit of kit in the world, but it's what we have to work with unless you carry a trolley jack. So, whilst we'll have to suffer with the below average scissor jack, there are a couple of things you can buy to make changing a tyre / jack the car a little easier.

1) I ditched the VE jack handle ages ago and bought a TH Magna (two piece) jack handle set. Cost about $50.00 from a Mitsi dealer. It fits together to make a right angle pivoting handle you just wind up or down. As it has an open hook on the end that connects to the jack, you can put a little angel on it and not skin your knuckles when jacking the car up. Will get the car off the ground in under 60 seconds.

2) Wheel brace. Get to Kmart, Repco, SC etc and buy a collapsible four arm wheel brace. I think mine set me back $10.00. Not the greatest quality but it does the job, fits in the toll box or wheel well but I still can the Holden wheel brace / or a breaker bar just incase.

http://www.graystonengineering.com/wheel%20brace%20large.jpg

Whilst both these items don't solve the wider issue of the below average jack Holden supply with the VE, they will save you time and skin.

As for my VT, I still have to soldier on with the scissor jack and jack handle, but I carry one of the collapsible wheel braces for it too.

[CalaisBoy]

Haha GKW, me thinks that after your post Mitsubishi will sell enough jack handles to become profitable again!!

Great tip!

[Ausmartin1]

"Obviously this bloody thing was designed by some pony tailed latte sipping 20yo engineer fresh out of uni. IT DOESNT WORK YOU IDIOTS! "

You are dead right on this one LOL! unfortunetly a lot of recent products can be put in this class these days.
What was considered domestic rated in the 70's is now "Commercial Industrial" these days and domestic quality is only just to look at.
Eg steel carport roofs - What idiot allows steel so thin you can't even walk on it. - 70's 0.6mm Thick now industrial 0.42mm or .48mm - if you lucky here in Vic What the ?