Help needed, Blown LS1 with major starting problems

[350munro]

Hi Guys, hoping someone out there will be able to help with my LS1 problems. The car will crank and sometimes fire and very occassionly will start and run roughly for a few seconds but then stall and not start again, sometimes bringing up a check engine light other times not. I have digimoto lite and this seems to tell me nothing, I have also had other people look at it with varying degrees of success. The modifications are: Camshaft(sorry can't remember the specs but rather large) Harrop 112 and intercooler, dual 2.5 system etc. While trying to fault find I have replaced the plugs with NGK platinum gapped at 40thou, coolant temp sensor, drained, flushed and refilled fuel tank(the fuel was about 2 years old) replaced battery with optima yellow top. Some things that I have tried have appeared to solve the problem for a short time eg. After new plugs it started and ran fine for about 10minutes but when I tried to start the following day it wouldn't start and the plugs were sooty(this was with old fuel), After new fuel it started and ran but not perfectly with the check engine light on but the following day again would not start. At last attempt it did not start, it would only crank and occasionally backfire but about every third revolution would labour against the starter for about half a turn. Hoping somebody out there may be able to shine a light on this problem for me. Thanks in advance.

[V8_Power]

sounds like an injector issue, running rich

[peter b]

Hi Guys, hoping someone out there will be able to help with my LS1 problems. The car will crank and sometimes fire and very occassionly will start and run roughly for a few seconds but then stall and not start again, sometimes bringing up a check engine light other times not. I have digimoto lite and this seems to tell me nothing, I have also had other people look at it with varying degrees of success. The modifications are: Camshaft(sorry can't remember the specs but rather large) Harrop 112 and intercooler, dual 2.5 system etc. While trying to fault find I have replaced the plugs with NGK platinum gapped at 40thou, coolant temp sensor, drained, flushed and refilled fuel tank(the fuel was about 2 years old) replaced battery with optima yellow top. Some things that I have tried have appeared to solve the problem for a short time eg. After new plugs it started and ran fine for about 10minutes but when I tried to start the following day it wouldn't start and the plugs were sooty(this was with old fuel), After new fuel it started and ran but not perfectly with the check engine light on but the following day again would not start. At last attempt it did not start, it would only crank and occasionally backfire but about every third revolution would labour against the starter for about half a turn. Hoping somebody out there may be able to shine a light on this problem for me. Thanks in advance.

check crank sensor and cam sensor and associated wiring

[JezzaB]

Ok for a start, what is the engine fault code? If you say you don't know then you need to take it to your tuner or someone who can read the code.

[350munro]

Would love to but it won't start so can't be driven and there aren't any tuners who do house calls in my area. The fault code is intermittent, only on about 20% of the time. I will give the digimoto another try and see if it will read it.

[Toddler78]

Would love to but it won't start so can't be driven and there aren't any tuners who do house calls in my area. The fault code is intermittent, only on about 20% of the time. I will give the digimoto another try and see if it will read it.
the fault code will still be stored in the memory. Could be any number of things as Jez said you need the code to know where to start looking

[350munro]

The code is p0102 which is MAF low frequency but the engine is MAFless, still won't start olny backfire BTW.

[JezzaB]

Ok so the car won't start at all and never has since the problems occurred? In your post it appeared like it was having trouble starting now and then as some things fixed it for a while but would have a code now and then (which wasn't read out)

Check the wiring to you crank sensor, it's on the driver side nd runs down past you extractors behind the starter motor. See if it's burnt and touching the extractors. A dodgy cam sensor will start but it will start on the wrong phase because it doesn't know if it's on the exhaust stroke or compression stroke. A quick flick of a key and try again it should swap phases. Bad wiring or crank sensor will not read RPMs or fire the coils or injectors. Touching it can cut out or do "key bangers" while your driving. Bad MAP sensor which will be in the blower now will make it rich as hell etc. usually they dont go but maybe your wiring is too close to the belt.

Lots of things it could be mate but that code isn't the code your looking for. Just means its mafless

PS whe you turn the key to ignition, get someone so listen to make sure the fuel pump is priming for about 2 seconds

[350munro]

Thanks for the reply Jezza. The car has run and run very well when the blower first went on even since the start of the starting issue the car has had times when it will start and run perfectly, for instance when I put the new plugs in it started and ran great for about 10 minutes but I then shut it down as it was getting late at night, next dat same problem no start. Again when I drained the fuel(tuesday night) with fresh fuel it started and ran for about 10 minutes again, I shut it down as it was late again and wednesday it wouldn't start just backfire, same story thursday and today.

[JezzaB]

You need a fuel pressure gauge on it as well. See if it's actually getting pressure. What fuel system is in it? Or just a walbro?

[350munro]

Fuel system all standard, cranking and idling the fuel pressure doesn't drop below 60psi.

[JezzaB]

Ok. Well check that wiring. But that's craaaazy running a stock fuel pump with that setup? You pulled a plug to make sure they are not fouled now because of the problem?

[350munro]

Harrop said the stock fuel system is fine with that set up up to 500rwhp. As for fouled plugs I have pulled them since last week but maybe I will again tonight.

[JezzaB]

370ish rwkw on the stock fuel pump with boost??? What car do you actually have? Who installed it and tuned it?

[350munro]

The car is an 02 commodore and the setup was installed by the best(although this is something I highly doubt now) tuner in WA. Like I have previously stated the car ran perfectly for the first 80 or so kms before developing the fault. In defence of the installer, he has offered to have a look at the car however due to the distance between us and the cost of the transport for a non running vehicle($4000 or more) I have not taken him up on this offer.

[motorin on]

In defence of the installer, he has offered to have a look at the car however due to the distance between us and the cost of the transport for a non running vehicle($4000 or more) I have not taken him up on this offer.
Don't you have a mate that can tow a car trailer for you?

[boggers007]

Would this be done by a shop based out York?

[pugz]

If u checked the codes, sensors and u have good spark and fuel(but to tell u the truth I would be upgrading that fuel system anyway pump and injectors at least pump)..... Back to problem... Maybe a broken/weak valve springs? They did upgrade the valve springs with the cam didn't they?

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Harrop said the stock fuel system is fine with that set up up to 500rwhp. .
im shure they were talking flywheel hp not rwhp

[Leppy]

One would like to hope so Atomic Maloo R8!!!!

[2010blackve]

Hey mate, where are you located for a $4k transport bill?

You need to take the car back to the tuner before putting blame on anyone.

How long ago was the work done? How many k's have you done since the install?

How far from Perth are you? And what direction?

[350munro]

Don't you have a mate that can tow a car trailer for you?

Ive got no mates but I do have a car trailer(and a tilt tray truck) and a car to tow the trailer. Where are you going with this?

[350munro]

Would this be done by a shop based out York?

Yep, regretting it now.

[350munro]

If u checked the codes, sensors and u have good spark and fuel(but to tell u the truth I would be upgrading that fuel system anyway pump and injectors at least pump)..... Back to problem... Maybe a broken/weak valve springs? They did upgrade the valve springs with the cam didn't they?

Upgraded the springs with the cam and the injectors with the blower. Pump at 100% only when rwhp over 500. Engine set at 490rwhp so pump okay.

[350munro]

im shure they were talking flywheel hp not rwhp

Reply from Harrop was rear wheel horsepower.

[350munro]

Hey mate, where are you located for a $4k transport bill?

You need to take the car back to the tuner before putting blame on anyone.

How long ago was the work done? How many k's have you done since the install?

How far from Perth are you? And what direction?

Haven't blamed anyone.....YET.
Work done approximately 2 years ago, car done about 80kilometers since as it has had starting fault for about the same length of time and the original tuner only said "send it back and I'll have a look" but due to being a non runner and the cost of transporting a non runner I haven't sent it back, the situation would be far different if he offered to pay the transport cost.

[2010blackve]

Why not throw the car on the tilt tray and bring it to perth or are you miles away?

There are a few good shops around.

[BigAnt]

Ive got no mates but I do have a car trailer(and a tilt tray truck) and a car to tow the trailer. Where are you going with this?
Tow your car back to the tuner on the trailer or on the back of the truck. Has to be cheaper than paying 4k freight?


Pump at 100% only when rwhp over 500. Engine set at 490rwhp so pump okay.
Do you mean injectors? Is this what the tuner told you? 500rwhp on stock fuel system is impressive! Almost unbelievable....


Either way, I think you need to take it to a professional. One of the WA based forum sponsors perhaps?

[350munro]

Why not throw the car on the tilt tray and bring it to perth or are you miles away?

There are a few good shops around.

Costs me a heap of money to not be working and I really cant spare the time, with the amount of money I spent with the last shop im a bit gun shy to spend any more without a "no result, no charge" guarantee which no one in WA seems to be keen on.

[2010blackve]

Which shops have you made contact with?

Only 80km's in two years as the car has had an issue, sounds like you spent a few dollars on it as well!!!

Good luck with it, hope you can get it sorted.

[pugz]

Upgraded the springs with the cam and the injectors with the blower. Pump at 100% only when rwhp over 500. Engine set at 490rwhp so pump okay.

Just after reading yr post again i had another simple thought.

1.U changed the spark plugs it ran fine for 10 mins but the fuel was old/dirty.

2. U drained the fuel but when it did start it ran rough. Now won't start..

Is it possible that ur injectors are now cloged with the old fuel? Have u ripped the injectors out and cleaned plus now sooty plugs.

With yr fuel setup (not giving ur tuner crap or harrop, they make good stuff) but u might wanna get a second opinion on that one..In my experience anything with 380 plus would want an upgrade...Lean go BOOM CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK...This is what i'm puttin in....

http://www.pugz.me/images/fuelsys.jpg

[motorin on]

Ive got no mates but I do have a car trailer(and a tilt tray truck) and a car to tow the trailer. Where are you going with this?
Thought you could load the car up and take it yourself
Was the quote for $4000 for a tow truck or for is the drive to the workshop really that far and you need motel accomodation etc.
Still for $4k better to find somewhere closer,won't cost $4k to fix it-hopefully

[Drew SS]

Don't understand this the car has done 80 Klms in two years so ur 80 k out if Perth is that right and you got a quote for 4000 to bring it in to town

[JezzaB]

Reply from Harrop was rear wheel horsepower.

Well I can't even hit that naturally aspirated. And N/A has a much lower BSFC then blown or turbo. Plus the blower takes power to drive it so your making even more at the flywheel. Out of a 10 year old stock pump....

Then again the setup only had to be reliable for 80km

[motorin on]

Geez I hope it get fixed soon AND we all get told what the problem was

[Tre-Cool]

perhaps stating your location may help us. I do a few trips up north every year and if i have the time could drop by to take a look.

[motorin on]

perhaps stating your location may help us. I do a few trips up north every year and if i have the time could drop by to take a look.
According to a previous post (#23) and reply he is out at York,which is the reason the car has only done 80 klm since his troubles began
I am sure if he founds some beers and lit the bbq some-one/a few from the forum would be happy to make a day/overnight trip out of it,mbe a Saturday to sleep off the beers and come home Sunday

[boggers007]

According to a previous post and reply he is out at York,which is the reason the car has only done 80 klm since his troubles began
I am sure if he founds some beers and lit the bbq some-one/a few from the forum would be happy to make a day/overnight trip out of it,mbe a Saturday to sleep off the beers and come home Sunday

No no you have that abit wrong the Tuner is based out of York.

[motorin on]

No no you have that a bit wrong the Tuner is based out of York.
oh o.k. my blue - so is he 80klm from York ?
Not sure if he replied to his location then just the tuner's
I just trying to help

[pugz]

No no you have that abit wrong the Tuner is based out of York.

I had a bike shipped from Los Angeles to australia for 2300.... I tells ya what if I had a tip tray I would be sooooooo happy... Can I borrow it?... I'm just lucky when racing at wsid I just get her towed across the road... My aunt lives at doonside!! I don't live in wa but I'm sure one of mates will help u... As long as u have the cash... He will not accept tic but is more than trustworthy... If u have a tip tray u have options...

[boggers007]

I had a bike shipped from Los Angeles to australia for 2300.... I tells ya what if I had a tip tray I would be sooooooo happy... Can I borrow it?... I'm just lucky when racing at wsid I just get her towed across the road... My aunt lives at doonside!! I don't live in wa but I'm sure one of mates will help u... As long as u have the cash... He will not accept tic but is more than trustworthy... If u have a tip tray u have options...

Perth to york is about 1 hour 45mins about about 100k's so either Munro isnt perth region or someone was High as f*ck when they quoted that figure to him.

[motorin on]

No matter where 350munro is ,he said he has his own tow car and car trailer.He can always hire a winch or block and tackle f he doesn't have one
Says he has no mates,mbe he is on a farm
Hard for the guys on here to give an accurate diagnosis,could be a combination of small problem's
He should just bite the bullet,spend some cash and time and move the car
Any decent mechanic should be able to diagnose the problem,doesn't need a specialist LS1 workshop
If he is in Perth even better

[bush_basha]

he said he doesn't have the time to tow it to where ever it is. obviously busy at work or something. to put it on a truck undriveable (as his car won't start) would have to be close to 3-4K, that's where I'm guessing he is getting his figure from.

[heavyduty1340]

Id just ring John Lloyd at SQP in Maddington and arrange to have it tilt trayed to him to sort out - he has had a bit to do with cars from York

[pugz]

Perth to york is about 1 hour 45mins about about 100k's so either Munro isnt perth region or someone was High as f*ck when they quoted that figure to him.

Damn right... I drive more than that just to race... I just don't want him to be ripped off cause 4g can buy you alot!

[2010blackve]

350munro just do as heavyduty1340 has said.

[HOWQUICK]

Id just ring John Lloyd at SQP in Maddington and arrange to have it tilt trayed to him to sort out - he has had a bit to do with cars from York

thanks but just to clarify I have no ongoing affiliation with MWS or the cars they modify...except for a few in PSC that have motors I built for them passed off as MWS builds.