Thoughts on E10 vs 98 vs 91

[andy1742]

So i have only used 98 in my VE SS and but is there a noticeable difference in using 91 or E10 or is it bad for the engine? or is it a myth that E10 slowly destroys a higher performance car.

[macca_779]

Ahh yeah it's a myth. Ethanol is awesome


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[gmh308]

One of the shops in Melbourne did a comparison set of dynos. E10 was embaressingly good for power almost trumping 98. From memory Rob Vickery HPF.

[team illucid]

Isn't E10 more expensive than 98?
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[Woodchukka]

Isn't E10 more expensive than 98?
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E10 is heaps cheaper than 98. Cheaper than normal 91.

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[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

One of the shops in Melbourne did a comparison set of dynos. E10 was embaressingly good for power almost trumping 98. From memory Rob Vickery HPF.
http://www.ozgarage.com.au/season1-video/episode-10-now-online-the-fuel-test
Enjoy.

also, e85 testing for those interested
http://www.ozgarage.com.au/season2-video/s2-episode-6-online-e85-fuel

[swingtan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....

In terms of "Bang for Buck"

91<---95--E10-----E10(with tune to suit)->98

I'm currently evaluating my fuel choices. I think I'll be going to an Ethanol blend as I've taken 98 about as far as I can on the tune. It's a pity Shell got rid of E10 as I'd be running it in the SIDI if it was available.

Simon

[macca_779]

United 100 doesn't interest you Simon? Or better yet eflex


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[Toddler78]

Aparently tt did a test a while bac on the cons of fuel pricing and although e10 was the cheaper of the fuels compared to 95 and 98 it consistently tested at 96 Ron so maybe worth considering


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[motorin on]

E10 may be cheaper but I have always thought consumption was higher than using 95 or 98 due to the lower octane rating

[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

e10 is higher octane than 95, closer or even above 98. consumption is very slightly more, because the ethanol contains oxygen so needs more fuel to compensate. but this will not be enough to oughtweigh the $$$ saved over using 98

[motorin on]

e10 is higher octane than 95, closer or even above 98. consumption is very slightly more, because the ethanol contains oxygen so needs more fuel to compensate. but this will not be enough to oughtweigh the $$$ saved over using 98
Do I need a retune or will the car adjust over time for the change of fuel,usually run 95 with the rare tank of 98

[brasher]

eflex is the bomb! it's a shame it's not more popular. 2 years of nothing but eflex running in my car and loves the stuff. Drives much better than 98.

[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

Do I need a retune or will the car adjust over time for the change of fuel,usually run 95 with the rare tank of 98
You dont NEED to retune, but i suppose a tune would give the maximum benifit


eflex is the bomb! it's a shame it's not more popular. 2 years of nothing but eflex running in my car and loves the stuff. Drives much better than 98.
Pretty keen on eflex myself, the only problem being there are only 3 service stations in Newcastle area who sell it and outside Newcastle im not sure its available except sydney.
Can anybody tell me other locations i can get it? expecially close to eastern ck, whats the closest servo? cheers

[macca_779]

You dont NEED to retune, but i suppose a tune would give the maximum benifit


Pretty keen on eflex myself, the only problem being there are only 3 service stations in Newcastle area who sell it and outside Newcastle im not sure its available except sydney.
Can anybody tell me other locations i can get it? expecially close to eastern ck, whats the closest servo? cheers

O your poor baby lol. 3 servos. Fark I'd be happy with 1


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[bozodos]

We have United 100 here, I was initially keen on it, as I drive past the servo every day, but my tuner reccommended against it due to the fuel being inconsistent and going off quicker?

[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

hahaha yeah well i say 3, 2 of those are over a hour round trip out of my way and the other one only has eflex half the time so its a little inconvinient

[awesome _vzss]

You dont NEED to retune, but i suppose a tune would give the maximum benifit


Pretty keen on eflex myself, the only problem being there are only 3 service stations in Newcastle area who sell it and outside Newcastle im not sure its available except sydney.
Can anybody tell me other locations i can get it? expecially close to eastern ck, whats the closest servo? cheers

If your talkin about eastern creek in western Sydney, there is a servo about 5 minutes up the road of the great western hwy.
Thats where I usually fill up with eflex and love it

[redvxr8clubby]

You dont NEED to retune, but i suppose a tune would give the maximum benifit


Pretty keen on eflex myself, the only problem being there are only 3 service stations in Newcastle area who sell it and outside Newcastle im not sure its available except sydney.
Can anybody tell me other locations i can get it? expecially close to eastern ck, whats the closest servo? cheers

There is one on the Great Western Highway at Girraween - Caltex - City bound, top of the hill after Greystanes Rd.

[swingtan]

United 100 doesn't interest you Simon? Or better yet eflex


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Yes, it does. I was going to try it a while back, but got sidetracked. Maybe I'll start next tank, will need to re-program the WB to suit E85 though. At least the stock injectors should just handle the increase in flow rate required.

[awesome _vzss]

There is one on the Great Western Highway at Girraween - Caltex - City bound, top of the hill after Greystanes Rd.

Yeah that's the one I got to and was talking about.
Also the price of eflex there is usually pretty cheap compared to others I go to.

[awesome _vzss]

Also this with that servo the blend has been pretty consistent with no less than 80% ethanol.

[MR57SS]

So your saying that E10 is better then 95 octane fuel? Is that for tuned or stock cars?

Ps current car is a 2010 SIDI SV6

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[Woodchukka]

So your saying that E10 is better then 95 octane fuel? Is that for tuned or stock cars?

Ps current car is a 2010 SIDI SV6

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I keep track of fuel economy in my car (VYII) and found 95 gave a bit better fuel economy than E10 enough to nearly offset the price difference. So the 95 works more efficiently in my car than the E10. Now my car is not tuned so I would say to get the benefit out of E10 you would need a tune for sure.

[LuisS]

Did the BP98 vs United 100 experiment on a customer's car , the results were pretty disappointing to say the least.

No where near as knock tolerant , and a loss of power & torque right across the rev range even after tuning .

Steer clear. Eflex /E85 on the other hand :nyuk:

[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

I have heard it is possible to add the ve style ethanol sensor to a earlier model commodore for running eflex , e85, 98 all with 1 tune. Is this correct? What tuners might have experience with this setup in the Newcastle to Sydney area

[brasher]

I have heard it is possible to add the ve style ethanol sensor to a earlier model commodore for running eflex , e85, 98 all with 1 tune. Is this correct? What tuners might have experience with this setup in the Newcastle to Sydney area



well I know you can incorporate the GM sensor into the new haltechs, but not sure on putting the sensor onto an older holden ECM.

[bozodos]

What about the E38 PCM on the VZ L76?

[Xjas]

I was under the impression that the VE doesnt use an ethanol sensor, I thought they use the fuel level to determine when you've filled up and then recaluclate the % ethanol by monitoring the STFTs, I could be wrong on that though.

[macca_779]

I was under the impression that the VE doesnt use an ethanol sensor, I thought they use the fuel level to determine when you've filled up and then recaluclate the % ethanol by monitoring the STFTs, I could be wrong on that though.

No that's how the US cars do it. Ours have a physical sensor. Much better our way.


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[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

Actually now that i think of it, in a recent issue of street commodores ( the one with gups 700ish ci clubby on cover) there is a ls1 VL with fuelab ethanol sensors. Does anyone know more about this setup? Stock pcm possible to do this?

[Brett SS]

Did the BP98 vs United 100 experiment on a customer's car , the results were pretty disappointing to say the least.

No where near as knock tolerant , and a loss of power & torque right across the rev range even after tuning .

Steer clear. Eflex /E85 on the other hand :nyuk:

Good to hear you found the same results as me. I tried 98 v's United 100 and the E10 stuff would knock easier and make less power with my blown combo.

I spent the time to re-tune to the correct stoich ratio and adjust timing etc as best I could but it just didn't work as well as 98, so I won't be going there again. Am keen to give E85 a crack one day though but we will see.

[redvxr8clubby]

I was thinking with E10 and 91 that 91 was better overall, while I was aware of the knock resistance supposed to better with E10, I was assuming as the power generated per litre of E10 is less than 91, that it wasn't worth the few cents that are saved, so in my SIDI SV6, and Fiesta I have been trying to stick with 91 where available, but sometimes use E10 if I can't find 91 at the time. Sounds like I should be using E10 for these cars at least. I'll stick with 95 or 98 for the VX Clubby.

[Woodchukka]

I was thinking with E10 and 91 that 91 was better overall, while I was aware of the knock resistance supposed to better with E10, I was assuming as the power generated per litre of E10 is less than 91, that it wasn't worth the few cents that are saved, so in my SIDI SV6, and Fiesta I have been trying to stick with 91 where available, but sometimes use E10 if I can't find 91 at the time. Sounds like I should be using E10 for these cars at least. I'll stick with 95 or 98 for the VX Clubby.

Best way to tell what is better to run is if you have a route that you used a lot like going to work measure fuel consumption for 3 or 4 tanks on one fuel then the same for the other. Don't worry about recording the price as the difference between E10 and 91 is about the same so lust pick a day and record to evaluate once you have your measurements. FYI I record the litres put in and trip km's as the calculator on the dash is not 100% accurate. Do that and then you will know for sure.

[Kuzman89]

So what about 98 vs united100??

Made the switch a couple days ago, honestly can't tell the difference, price is roughly the same. Would this suit boost better?

Reading all these posts, not everyone has the same experience. Seems to be hit and miss as far as your own setup goes.

[Woodchukka]

So what about 98 vs united100??

Made the switch a couple days ago, honestly can't tell the difference, price is roughly the same. Would this suit boost better?

Reading all these posts, not everyone has the same experience. Seems to be hit and miss as far as your own setup goes.

Read post 25 and 32.

[MrBerlina]

Eflex /E85 on the other hand :nyuk:

My new drag motor will be running E85. Seems like a fantastic fuel for a lower maintenance, full power effort.

[Kuzman89]

Second tank now, and it does seem to respond better to united 100. At idle the car doesn't jolt as much and it seems alot smoother, doesn't struggle as much upto 8psi boost either. My last few tanks have been Vortex 98 from Caltex. So unsure how it would go against BP ultimate.

[macca_779]

Second tank now, and it does seem to respond better to united 100. At idle the car doesn't jolt as much and it seems alot smoother, doesn't struggle as much upto 8psi boost either. My last few tanks have been Vortex 98 from Caltex. So unsure how it would go against BP ultimate.

Personally I rate vortex 98 better than ultimate. It's always ran good for me, whereas ultimate has been hit and miss for me in the past. Although it has been a while since I used ultimate. I can use shopper dockets for vortex, which is another incentive.


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[Phillshz]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....

In terms of "Bang for Buck"

91<---95--E10-----E10(with tune to suit)->98

I'm currently evaluating my fuel choices. I think I'll be going to an Ethanol blend as I've taken 98 about as far as I can on the tune. It's a pity Shell got rid of E10 as I'd be running it in the SIDI if it was available.

Simon

Simon, Shell has E10 in Sydney (as do all the other servo`s whether independant or not) i was unaware E10 was being rolled back though i have heard rumours due to it being avoided by the majority of people who pick overpriced 95 instead.
ACA IIRC just recently did a test of E10 from different brands and areas arund Sydney, they all returned a reading of 94.5 RON

Cheers Phill

[macca_779]

Simon, Shell has E10 in Sydney (as do all the other servo`s whether independant or not) i was unaware E10 was being rolled back though i have heard rumours due to it being avoided by the majority of people who pick overpriced 95 instead.
ACA IIRC just recently did a test of E10 from different brands and areas arund Sydney, they all returned a reading of 94.5 RON

Cheers Phill

Simons taking about the vpower e10. Not the 91 Ron e10 which is common everywhere.


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[Phillshz]

Oh Ok, Gotcha :burnout:

[swingtan]

Actually, it's ALL E10 from Shell in Victoria. There is nothing with Ethanol in a Shell servo here, it's almost like they spat the dummy when they lost the V8 Super Car fueling (V-Power Racing ) and decided to get rid of anything with Ethanol. I'd love to be running it in the 3.0L SIDI motor as I reckon it's work well, but as it's a fleet car and comes with a Shell card, I'm stuck on 91, which is slightly better than Mountain Dew ( but not as good as Crab Juice ).

I'm set to recalibrate the TechEdge WB controller and the LA1 gauge to read correctly for E85, so I'll give that a go in the 6Lt. At a really quick calculation for AFR and peak IDC, I may not have the head room I need. For E85, max power is gained from between 6.975:1 and 8.469:1 AFR ( theoretical ), so splitting the two and aiming at 7.7 and with my current peak IDC around 60% for 12.6:1, I'm going to be pushing 97% IDC on E85......

Simon.

[redvxr8clubby]

Interesting about the rollback, a week ago I was travelling back from Brisbane to Sydney and stopped in a BP servo to fill up just north of Kempsey and noticed they have converted the pumps from E10 back to 91, usually BP seem to have E10. In Sydney E10 is much more common than 91.