Car thrashed - need valve springs

[GR346]

So, I foolishly let my uncle (wifes side) drive my car. I had been driving for maybe 30 minutes beforehand and for whatever reason let him "have a go". In the short time he was behind the wheel, he managed to rev the s**t out of it, hit 140ish before shifting into third, again reving the s**t out of it and finally sliding out of a roundabout with the rears spinning.

Anyway - he was out of the car not long after and I was pissed as hell. So after getting back into the car and starting it there was a noticeable ticking noise from the passenger side and I was fairly certain it sounded like the valve springs had gone and have confirmed that with my mechanic this arvo. Kicking myself for letting him drive my pride and joy, just figured he would have some respect for someone elses car.

He has been filled in tonight and has pretty much told me stiff s**t, he wasnt to blame and it was probably their time to go anyway.

So moving forward, what should I look at replacing while I am putting in new valve springs? What type should I get to future proof for a reasonable cam? Is there any brands to stay away from or recommended products?

Appreciate the help :)

[white lie]

It won't be ideal to put a stiffer spring in if you're planning a cam upgrade later.
Just put stock type ones back in it and get decent aftermarkets when you do the cam. They're much cheaper than the labour to change them.

[JezzaB]

How do you know the valve springs are "gone"? What is "gone"? Soft, broken?
How many km on the motor? Stock? Tuned?
Is it down on power now?

[JezzaB]

If you reckon thats thrashed. You need to get a couple of my customers to take you for a ride :lmao: Those two boys are .... "hard on the gear"

[jca]

More details needed

[zorro]

If you reckon thats thrashed. You need to get a couple of my customers to take you for a ride :lmao: Those two boys are .... "hard on the gear"

:lol: I was never shy of the limiter in my old ute, or running north of 4k over the mountains back in Brissie.

Ask Huggies what it's like going through lysterfield in the red shark ;)

[VRIIClubby]

same, all my car's have been driven like they were stolen...(they do have rev limiters)

If I didn't want to rev my car, get on the gas hard, I would have purcahsed a scooter...

Are you sure the "sound" wasnt there prior to your uncle from another mother flogging it? Or has his actions prompted your mind into listening for anything/everything and you have heard something "different" because you have turned your stereo off and are trying tio find a "noise"...

Also, without flaming your mechanic, how do they know if they haven't pulled it apart and its only a slight noise???? as other people have said is it down on power now aswell?

BTW: your uncle from another mother is a douche...always show respect to others property, and ask before you thrash...

[LSavvy]

So you let him thrash the car, you could have put a stop to it.....

[sjhugh]

Am I reading this right, he thrashed the car while you were a passenger?

I don’t really call pushing a car to the rev limiter a few times a thrashing, holding it there for ten minutes while doing a burnout is my idea of a thrashing.

Anyway if you were in the car why didn’t you clip him under the ear and tell him to pull over?


That’s what I use to do to my father when he’d start drifting my cars down the driveway.

.

[GR346]

How do you know the valve springs are "gone"? What is "gone"? Soft, broken?
How many km on the motor? Stock? Tuned?
Is it down on power now?

Well, Im told one is broken, the motor has just hit 100 thou and stock apart from a catback. Not sure if its down on power but its definately noisy now

If you reckon thats thrashed. You need to get a couple of my customers to take you for a ride :lmao: Those two boys are .... "hard on the gear"

Its thrashed compared to how its normally driven, it doesnt normally see revs far beyond 4K

[GR346]

Are you sure the "sound" wasnt there prior to your uncle from another mother flogging it? Or has his actions prompted your mind into listening for anything/everything and you have heard something "different" because you have turned your stereo off and are trying tio find a "noise"...
BTW: your uncle from another mother is a douche...always show respect to others property, and ask before you thrash...

Yes I was in the car but put a stop to it, was just blown away that he would do that to my car at all
Definately sure cause I had only just given it a service so it was lovely and quiet before, but it chatters away now while idling and when it hits certain rpm

[peter b]

Well, Im told one is broken, the motor has just hit 100 thou and stock apart from a catback. Not sure if its down on power but its definately noisy now


Its thrashed compared to how its normally driven, it doesnt normally see revs far beyond 4K

if one is broken then it may need more than just new springs. My advice make the decision now in regards to the cam so you dont pay for the job to be done twice

[1BEAST2NV]

so if the springs snapped, im guesing its dropped a cylinder and running on 7 ??

depending on how long u ran it for,

u may need to take the heads off and check to see if the valve is damaged, may hav come in contact with the piston....


I wouldnt blame him out right, im sure you've flogged ya own car, just so happens it went while he was driving..


But be fuked if I let any kunt thrash my fukn car..... you would be guttered if he lost it and wrecked it......

[whitels1ss]

I think he needs to get the covers off and make sure and stop driving it.
I hope he is not still driving it with suspect broken springs.

[GR346]

I think he needs to get the covers off and make sure and stop driving it.

It limped to the mechanics garage and thats where its stayed - was only running for maybe 10 minutes after it happened

Cheers for the advice though :)

[peter b]

how far away is your mechanic? and what workshop?

[GR346]

how far away is your mechanic? and what workshop?

5 minutes from my place, its a mates garage in Canberra

[1BEAST2NV]

^^ second that,

when I snapped a spring on my LS3 it misfired like a biatch, lost a heap of power :( ...

took off from a corner, heard this almighty banging noise when i changed to second, pulled over, shut it off, tow truck to the work shop straight out.... just sounded like it lost the bottom end.


once at the shop, rocker covers off, low and behold the second rear valve spring had broken dead in the centre.


Still took the heads off to check valves and piston, all was ok.


but running it for 10 minutes... eeeeeeek, dont like ya chances...

[peter b]

5 minutes from my place, its a mates garage in Canberra

how was it at idle as far as how it was running irrespective of noise

[whitels1ss]

when I snapped a spring on my LS3 it misfired like a biatch, lost a heap of power :( ...

took off from a corner, heard this almighty banging noise when i changed to second, pulled over, shut it off, tow truck to the work shop straight out.... just sounded like it lost the bottom end.

.

Yeah, I had exactly the same on another car a few years ago.

[GR346]

Ill have to catch up with them tomorrow and get more info cause there was no bang like you have described - just the chattering.....

[GR346]

how was it at idle as far as how it was running irrespective of noise

Was a bit off but I cant really remember - was more focussed on the noise

[peter b]

Ill have to catch up with them tomorrow and get more info cause there was no bang like you have described - just the chattering.....

could have just hurt the lifters but hard to say over the net would need to hear the car and look under the covers to be sure

[GR346]

could have just hurt the lifters but hard to say over the net would need to hear the car and look under the covers to be sure

Heres hoping that its not as bad as originally thought - agreed and thanks for taking the time to offer suggestions - appreciate it

Ill head down tomorrow and see what they find

[peter b]

Heres hoping that its not as bad as originally thought - agreed and thanks for taking the time to offer suggestions - appreciate it

Ill head down tomorrow and see what they find

well lifters means heads off so isnt a small job in itself but it is one of those things that it possible can find more than one problem
I wouldnt turn the blame in regards to this it really is one of those things can hammer it or baby it and still have the problem

[GR346]

well lifters means heads off so isnt a small job in itself but it is one of those things that it possible can find more than one problem
I wouldnt turn the blame in regards to this it really is one of those things can hammer it or baby it and still have the problem

True and I guess Ill find out tomorrow - heres hoping
Its just his attitude to the whole thing thats put me off

[peter b]

True and I guess Ill find out tomorrow - heres hoping
Its just his attitude to the whole thing thats put me off

yeah that is pretty shitty is a reason why i dont like driving other peoples cars and when i do they get babied lol

[Solone]

gotta be careful letting others drive it mate. If he asked for a drive did you think he was going to just roll round the block? he wanted to see what its got. Thats why I dont let people drive my car.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

IF it has a broken spring ( single not duels ) it will be running on 7 cyl and the noise you can here is more then likely the valve (witch has droped down ) taping the top of the piston
and the valve guide post with the valve seal on it is likely to be broken off
if your lucky it will only have just damaged the head and made a small dent in the top of the piston

[aussiemuscle308]

Its thrashed compared to how its normally driven, it doesnt normally see revs far beyond 4K
a sudden change in driver style can be bad for the motor (eg higher than normal revs).

My mother drives her cars very tame, i come along and blow out the weeds and they seem to rev smoother and quicker after a short while.


i guess he's off the xmas list, right?

[JezzaB]

Seen a broken valve spring on a stock WH stato that didnt drop the valve and was JUST holding on. The result of a 5.5 minute rev limiter bouncing youTube video in the shed....... told him to buy a lotto ticket when the rocker covers came off and I saw it.

[VTSSDUDE]

a sudden change in driver style can be bad for the motor (eg higher than normal revs).

My mother drives her cars very tame, i come along and blow out the weeds and they seem to rev smoother and quicker after a short while.


i guess he's off the xmas list, right?

I would be kicking him of my Christmas list for sure, considering it sounds like he isn't showing any remorse for it, and he would be banned from coming around to my house. lol


I also agree with AussieMuscle308, if you baby your engine, and have been doing for a long while, and all of a sudden it's getting bounced off the limiter, no doubt something can let go.
I think if you have busted a valve spring, you would know about it. Unless you are extremely lucky like Jezza said, and your valve has stuck in place without dropping.
Are you getting like a ticking sound or an actual chattering sound?
More like you have done your lifters in, not sure how though but maybe lack of oil, or there was crap that has been lodged in one of the lifters, I am only guessing here.
Good luck with it, and wait and see what your mechanic says. Fingers crossed it's nothing serious.
Also another question, have you had it running since then? Like after it cooled down?
Maybe change the oil and see how it goes? What type of oil are you running, how long since last oil change? Maybe excessive heat maybe have "wrecked" the oil?

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Seen a broken valve spring on a stock WH stato that didnt drop the valve and was JUST holding on. The result of a 5.5 minute rev limiter bouncing youTube video in the shed....... told him to buy a lotto ticket when the rocker covers came off and I saw it.

some are LUCKEY some NOT SO MUCH

[RARASV8]

GR346, how long have you had the car? what type of engine is in the car? what oil have you put in, in the last service?
could have just as easily bled down the lifter. some on here rev them to well over 6500 RPM regularly, **** mines seen 6800 a few times by mistake(the rev limit) these are VERY strong motors. 30 years ago what i wanted in my 308 these have standard.

Garry

[1BEAST2NV]

so what was the out come??

[GR346]

GR346, how long have you had the car? what type of engine is in the car? what oil have you put in, in the last service?
could have just as easily bled down the lifter.

I have had the car since the start of the year - its running the LS2 and last service was 2k ago, flushed the engine and put in the Edge 10-60


I also agree with AussieMuscle308, if you baby your engine, and have been doing for a long while, and all of a sudden it's getting bounced off the limiter, no doubt something can let go.


It does mostly get babied, most it would see is only about 4k.

Sorry for the late reply, was off with a sick daughter yesterday - So turns out it wasnt as bad as originally thought.
After a closer inspection, it turns out that most of the noise was from a lifter and the springs appear fine. Theres no marks on the piston or heads and everything seems in place. The chattering noise that was there is now more of a ticking but its definately not as loud as the other day. Having said that, I dont like the change in noise and after reading what happens when the springs DO let go, I dont want to risk it so am looking to replace the springs and maybe lifters. Ill have a chat to Brendo and see what he recommends

Thanks to all for you help - appreciate it

[whitels1ss]

It does mostly get babied, most it would see is only about 4k.
turns out it wasnt as bad as originally thought.

the noise was from a lifter and the springs appear fine.

looking to replace the springs and maybe lifters.

Buddy, if the springs are fine (like most of us told you :stick:) just keep "babying" it (your under 4,000rpm) Don't let the other guy drive it again and it will be fine.

If they are not cammed or thrashed (really big time thrashed very hard), you don't normally have a problem with the stock springs anyway.

You will change your mind about doing lifters when you get a quote on the work because it is a very expensive, heads off, engine strip down.

Just give it an oil and filter change, drive it normally and it should settle down very quickly and be fine.

I bet you are relieved:cheers:

[GR346]

Buddy, if the springs are fine (like most of us told you :stick:) just keep "babying" it (your under 4,000rpm) Don't let the other guy drive it again and it will be fine.

I bet you are relieved:cheers:

Very relieved yes - I think its not knowing much about the engines and interpretting whats said to me. I didnt know if the mechanic was thinking worst case scenario and preparing me but I was pretty worried yes :)
Slowly picking things up from the forum though and its people like you guys that share info and post constructive comments that help people lke me that arent as technically minded get by

Cheers for that :D I still have some oil from last Autobarn sale so will change that again.

[whitels1ss]

Very relieved yes - I think its not knowing much about the engines and interpretting whats said to me. I didnt know if the mechanic was thinking worst case scenario and preparing me but I was pretty worried yes :)
Slowly picking things up from the forum though and its people like you guys that share info and post constructive comments that help people lke me that arent as technically minded get by

Cheers for that :D I still have some oil from last Autobarn sale so will change that again.

Hey I am sure it will be fine mate, all the best :cheers:

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

so did the mac take the heads OF ? or is it back together ?
its not going to cost to much extra to put new spring and lifters in when you put it back together the parts ar not to dear its the labour that hurts

[whitels1ss]

so did the mac take the heads OF ? or is it back together ?
its not going to cost to much extra to put new spring and lifters in when you put it back together the parts ar not to dear its the labour that hurts

The way I read his posts, he just started it up again a couple of days later and it was quiet,
nothing was pulled down :cheers:

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

ar ok i thought he must have pulled the heads
(Theres no marks on the piston or heads and everything seems in place)

[GR346]

Sorry, its probably the way I worded it but yeah I took the car in and they pulled it down to check it out. Its all together and running again - just that bit of lifter noise

I only asked as the guys really look after me labour wise, have been going to the same place for 5 years now and take the wife's, sister's and parent's cars there for their servicing so have quite a good relationship with the guys. So if it was worth doing, I would consider it, would just throw anohter couple of cases in the boot for them ;)

[whitels1ss]

Sounds like when they "pulled it down" they just took the valve covers off and checked all the springs and valve gear.

That would have been all they needed to do. :goodjob:

[whitels1ss]

So, I foolishly let my uncle (wifes side) drive my car. :)

Just out of interest, what does this champion bloke drive?

[GR346]

He has a 2004ish Jeep, some Merc and what I think is a Harley Davidson V-Rod, looks similar to the one in the link below:

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_AU/Content/Pages/2012-Motorcycles/vrsc/v-rod-10th-anniversary-edition/v-rod-10th-anniversary-edition.html

I dont know what posessed me to let him drive my car, just figured he would respect my pride and joy I guess and being family and all....

[skidmarx]

:lol: I was never shy of the limiter in my old ute, or running north of 4k over the mountains back in Brissie.

Ask Huggies what it's like going through lysterfield in the red shark ;)

North of 4K? Its not reving till its up over 7400 mate!!

[zorro]

North of 4K? Its not reving till its up over 7400 mate!!

North as it didn't really drop under 4k very often :)

[pugz]

I think the motto of this story is always thrash your car and it will love u for it... Well mine does anyway.. Treat em mean and keep em clean... I'd say it was probably on itz way out anyway mate. I've gone threw 6 pairs of Tyres bouncing the sucker off the limiter for ages in a burnout comp no worries. The ute had 100,000 on it and 60,000 of em were probably burnouts

[JezzaB]

I think the motto of this story is always thrash your car and it will love u for it... Well mine does anyway.. Treat em mean and keep em clean... I'd say it was probably on itz way out anyway mate. I've gone threw 6 pairs of Tyres bouncing the sucker off the limiter for ages in a burnout comp no worries. The ute had 100,000 on it and 60,000 of em were probably burnouts

Good Fuel
Regular Servicing
Warming it up to operating temp before you give it hell
The limiter on an LS1 computers is a FUEL cut limiter