Amazing gross incompetence - Zupps Mt Gravatt

[seldo]

My mate has had on-going issues with his current Grange with transmission problems. Every time he goes on a trip, or has to spend a long time crawling in traffic, the transmission goes into limp-mode and stays locked in, I think it's 5th gear. Just jams in 5th and won't change up or down until you let it sit for 15 mins to cool down, and reset by turning ignition on and off several times.
He's had it back to Zupps at Mt Gravatt here in Brisbane probably 10 times complaining about this specific issue. They have fitted an external oil-cooler, several re-flashes of software, oil-level checks, and last time, a new torque converter, all to no avail, and in fact it has been getting worse.
This morning we took it to Fulcrum suspension to discuss some shock-absorber issues, and having a look underneath on the hoist, the transmission problem immediately became obvious, even to my non-mechanically-minded mate.
Some genius first-day apprentice has fitted the oil-coooler and connected it to the original in-tank cooler in the bottom of the radiator........but has disconnected the pipes from the transmission to the radiator and just connected one to the other with a "U"-shaped loop of hose !!
So, now the transmission oil travels from the transmission, down the pipe to the U-hose and back to the transmission, completely by-passing both the original radiator-cooler and the new external cooler which does absolutely nothing since it's not even in the oil-circuit .
If it wasn't so bloody frustrating and stupid it would be funny.
So, guess who will not be back to Zupps for his next (4th) Grange.

[seldo]

See if this piccie works...
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb409/seldosnr/DavidsphoneNov2012.jpg

[C4B]

I'd be wanting a new tranny after that..... Surely the box must have sustained damage through so many overheating events......

[SSer]

All I can say is wow. I'm no mechanic, but that is truly impressive. It will be interesting to see how the transmission has coped with not getting supplied cooled oil for so long. I'm guessing he has been taking it easy since the problem started though? Lets hope limp mode has saved it, or if not Zupps come to the party and replace anything damaged.

Its disappointing when this sort of thing happens. You hand your pride and joy over expecting a professional to work on it, or at least look over the work being done to double check it. I hope your mate gets a good outcome from it all.

[seldo]

Fortunately he's an old sheila and doesn't drive it hard, so I'd be surprised if there's trannie damage, although could be hardened seals which may eventually fail.
I agree that he should ask for a new trans, but problem is, with the level competence that they've displayed so far, would you take your car back to them for yet another go...?

[Quark]

Wow! Just wow! That's gibbering incompetence! And how many times has that been missed when it's been returned? Got to wonder if he's pissed somebody off and they've done it deliberately, as there's so many multiples of stupid there.

Hard to believe the box won't have a significantly shortened service life. Take it up with the dealer principal and escalate to Holden if not satisfied.

[XUV]

get them to fix it and give you an extended warranty

and just a quick question was it shuddering in stop start traffic ?

[CLUBRED]

I won't comment with regard to Zupps MtGravatt, let me just say I'll never set foot in the place ever again either, did I say never...

[VYBerlinaV8]

I'd be contacting Holden directly, including photos and records of the times it was in being fixed/serviced, and request that they arrange a different dealer to resolve the issue, given that you have no confidence in Zupps.

[IJ.]

I'd be contacting Holden directly, including photos and records of the times it was in being fixed/serviced, and request that they arrange a different dealer to resolve the issue, given that you have no confidence in Zupps.

This 100%

I'd be holding out for a replacement Trans that's a joke.

[zorro]

Waits for planetdavo to say that's standard procedure :popcorn:

[aratic]

Was the trans having problems before the cooling circuit was tampered with? Seems strange that if it was having problems before they tried putting the external cooler in then wouldnt that mean, as bad as it is, this isnt causing the problem?

[C4B]

Was the trans having problems before the cooling circuit was tampered with? Seems strange that if it was having problems before they tried putting the external cooler in then wouldnt that mean, as bad as it is, this isnt causing the problem?

It would indicate an underlying issue to begin with, but by adding the cooler and essentially disconnecting the cooling for the transmission altogether they would have made the problem worse. Presumably the new cooler will now be plumbed so hopefully the issue will be resolved.

[LSavvy]

Waits for planetdavo to say that's standard procedure :popcorn:

Or it's the whinging customers fault.

[seldo]

Was the trans having problems before the cooling circuit was tampered with? Seems strange that if it was having problems before they tried putting the external cooler in then wouldnt that mean, as bad as it is, this isnt causing the problem?Funnily enough, the problems worsened after they "fixed" it with the addition of the trans cooler....
What really astounds me is that if they have had it up in the air 10 times to try to "fix" it, how have they not seen the glaringly obvious stuff-up? It used to only play up after a 300km highway trip, or working it hard up a windy, hilly climb with lots of changes up and down through the gears, and accelerating out of slow corners. As soon as they tried to fix it, it began to play up after 30 mins in peak-hour traffic.
After 10 attempts to fix it, how could they possibly not see this? FFS! Did they ever really do anything, or just park it in the corner for the day and say it's now fixed...

[XUV]

they were probably waiting for the computer to diagnose the fault .........

[C4B]

Funnily enough, the problems worsened after they "fixed" it with the addition of the trans cooler....
What really astounds me is that if they have had it up in the air 10 times to try to "fix" it, how have they not seen the glaringly obvious stuff-up? It used to only play up after a 300km highway trip, or working it hard up a windy, hilly climb with lots of changes up and down through the gears, and accelerating out of slow corners. As soon as they tried to fix it, it began to play up after 30 mins in peak-hour traffic.
After 10 attempts to fix it, how could they possibly not see this? FFS! Did they ever really do anything, or just park it in the corner for the day and say it's now fixed...

It makes sense that it got worse, considering it went from the standard Transmission Cooling to No cooling whatsoever.....

[LSavvy]

Was the vehicle bought from them new and exclusively serviced by them or had it been in a front end acco?

[SSer]

Funnily enough, the problems worsened after they "fixed" it with the addition of the trans cooler....
What really astounds me is that if they have had it up in the air 10 times to try to "fix" it, how have they not seen the glaringly obvious stuff-up? It used to only play up after a 300km highway trip, or working it hard up a windy, hilly climb with lots of changes up and down through the gears, and accelerating out of slow corners. As soon as they tried to fix it, it began to play up after 30 mins in peak-hour traffic.
After 10 attempts to fix it, how could they possibly not see this? FFS! Did they ever really do anything, or just park it in the corner for the day and say it's now fixed...

It was probably parked in the customer car park all day, ie. the transmission had time to cool down. Then someone would take it for a "road test", and come back after 2mins saying "it feels fine to me". Im sure that has happened to me at my local dealer in the past.

[pvk308]

Im sorry to hear this about your mates car but things like this just further my attitude of learn to do it yourself that way if it screws up its your fault...... on a side note if it was me there should be record of who worked on the car kept by holden get the list and finger point lay the blame where it should be laid on the worker

[seldo]

Was the vehicle bought from them new and exclusively serviced by them or had it been in a front end acco?
Sold and serviced by them exclusively from new

[seldo]

It was probably parked in the customer car park all day, ie. the transmission had time to cool down. Then someone would take it for a "road test", and come back after 2mins saying "it feels fine to me". Im sure that has happened to me at my local dealer in the past.Probably spot-on!

[Angeldust]

wow, if what you say is absolutely correct, than that is shocking.

[Micks]

Funnily enough, the problems worsened after they "fixed" it with the addition of the trans cooler....
What really astounds me is that if they have had it up in the air 10 times to try to "fix" it, how have they not seen the glaringly obvious stuff-up? It used to only play up after a 300km highway trip, or working it hard up a windy, hilly climb with lots of changes up and down through the gears, and accelerating out of slow corners. As soon as they tried to fix it, it began to play up after 30 mins in peak-hour traffic.
After 10 attempts to fix it, how could they possibly not see this? FFS! Did they ever really do anything, or just park it in the corner for the day and say it's now fixed...

It's pretty obvious mate, most stealerships have "one" guru tech & rest are little more than labourers or ordinary apprentices! I went to pick up my Vy approx six years ago for simple warranty work from McGrath Sutherland & found some pimply faced fat headed apprentice or the like revving the shit outta it riding the clutch!! I never went back there again!
I don't have it in for apprentices either cause I was once one ffs!

[VRIIClubby]

Dead set shocking Seldo!

Even with the "Apprentice" factor you would assume that upon the car's 3rd return for the same issue that a more experienced mechanic / tech would investigate the issue, look up and go WTF?...

As other's have said, New Gearbox time, the constant heating and cooling past the "normal" limits WILL have created heat stress on the internal components! I would be settling for nothing less!~!

and..


Waits for planetdavo to say that's standard procedure :popcorn:

This the deadset funniest bloody thing I have read on here in a long time...
I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read the OP, maybe its the customers fault for not putting it on a hoist himself to "double" check the dealerships work..

[zorro]

Dead set shocking Seldo!

Even with the "Apprentice" factor you would assume that upon the car's 3rd return for the same issue that a more experienced mechanic / tech would investigate the issue, look up and go WTF?...


That's my question, why hasn't the shop foreman picked up on it over the multiple times it has been there?

[Souljah]

That's my question, why hasn't the shop foreman picked up on it over the multiple times it has been there?

The workshop leading hand would get dirty if he left his office....

[Souljah]

That's my question, why hasn't the shop foreman picked up on it over the multiple times it has been there?

The workshop leading hand would get dirty if he left his office....

[Hi Octane]

Fail ZUPPS.

[Peter B - CV8]

That is truely staggering & a very poor reflection on the mechanical competence of the workshop staff.

[GR346]

I would be pretty unhappy by this point - you would think that after multiple trips back with the same issue they would put someone with a little more experience on the job??

[NickS]

It seems even Davo can't a think of a way to talk the blame away from the dealership on this one!

Unbelievable ... :hmmm:

[HSV590]

Just to go against the theme here. I have mine serviced at Motorama Springwood here in Brisbane and can't speak highly enough of them, maybe a little pricey, but that's dealers for you, but I know, the same HSV tech works on my car each time it's there. That said, this particular instance is a pretty poor case of workmanship and service..

[aratic]

My mates dad worked as a dealer principal at one of the Zupps new car sales dealerships and only lasted 12 months. He reckoned they were the most incompetant company he had ever worked for.

Plenty of other Holden dealerships in Brisbane to go to

[HSV590]

My mates dad worked as a dealer principal at one of the Zupps new car sales dealerships and only lasted 12 months. He reckoned they were the most incompetant company he had ever worked for.

Plenty of other Holden dealerships in Brisbane to go to

Worked "as a dealer principal"??

[aratic]

Apparently so

[C4B]

I bought a couple of new cars from Zupps in the late 90's (mainly because I personally knew one of the sales reps there at the time so didn't get subjected to any hard sell).

I went to the Aspley dealership earlier in the year when a friend was looking for a new car. The sales guy had such poor knowledge of their products we left after 5 minutes (she ended up purchasing a Mazda 3 SP25 literally from over the road).

[NickS]

Apparently so

I believe the term "dealer principal" applies to the guy that owns and runs the business. If your simply employed to run a dealership you're not usually called the "dealer principal".

I could be wrong, but that's always been my understanding.

[HSV590]

I believe the term "dealer principal" applies to the guy that owns and runs the business. If your simply employed to run a dealership you're not usually called the "dealer principal".

I could be wrong, but that's always been my understanding.

True..I believe that's correct

[aratic]

I stand well and truely corrected :lol:

Either way he worked in sales in some form and needless to say didnt stay long

[seldo]

Just to put this to bed, my mate sent a photo of the problem to the dealer principal (who incidentally is the person who runs the business, but doesn't necessarily own it) and received an immediate personal phone call and request to bring it straight in and they fixed it while he waited.
He took it on a 600 km trip on the weekend and all his transmission problems have magically disappeared....
Only took 3 years....Sigh...

[VYSHSV8]

Great to hear mate


Sent from the middle of Farkin no-where

[Quark]

Any extended warranty on the transmission for peace of mind? Hard to believe its service life hasn't been significantly reduced.

[NickS]

... my mate sent a photo of the problem to the dealer principal (who incidentally is the person who runs the business, but doesn't necessarily own it)

Well now I stand well and truely corrected ... you'd know better than me mate.

It's interesting as in pretty much every other profession (besides school principals) the principal is the owner. Apparently not necessarily when it comes to car dealerships.

Good to hear he got it fixed, hopefully the business is kicking some butts for allowing this to drag on so long!

[whitels1ss]

The Dealer Principal is the holder of the Dealer's License for the Dealership.
That person does not have to own the place

Example.....

Public Company "AP Eagers" owns many dealerships all over Australia.
Each one needs a responsible license holder.

Here is a link to AP Eagers list of NEW CAR dealerships,
they also have AUCTION HOUSES, USED CAR, BUS,
NEW TRUCK and USED TRUCK
dealerships if you check out the list on the left side of the page.

http://www.apeagers.com.au/dealerships.htm

[VYSHSV8]

^^^^ same as a company called AHG


Sent from the middle of Farkin no-where

[planetdavo]

It seems even Davo can't a think of a way to talk the blame away from the dealership on this one!

Unbelievable ... :hmmm:

Maybe Davo wasn't trying to "think of a way to talk the blame away from the dealership on this one". :idea:

I'm surprised NickS. Whilst posts like yours above to be expected from a couple of others (as they did earlier in this thread), I thought you were happy to operate above this level.

[planetdavo]

It's interesting as in pretty much every other profession (besides school principals) the principal is the owner. Apparently not necessarily when it comes to car dealerships.


Most dealerships are owned by either multiple private owners, are a publicly listed company, or have an individual owner with more than one business interest. Pretty hard for an owner (if there is even just the one) to be in multiple locations at once, I’m sure most would agree.
Dealer principles may be required to have a financial interest in the company they are employed to work for to have that role, but make no mistake, they are an “employee” that can be sacked by the owners.
This may help to dispel some of the rampant myths that fester all over internet forums as being “the truth”, for all the people that THINK that dealerships are simply a huge profit generating operation. With usually dozens of people to be paid, from the top dollar DP, through administration and/or operations manager, department managers and assistant managers, then qualified staff, all the way down to the low wage carwasher, the overheads to operate a dealership are massive.

[pvk308]

As i said earlier this just reinforces the idea of doing it yourself...... In the 20 plus years i have of building motors and cars there is no greater joy than watching something take shape and know you did it

[Jag530G]

Most dealerships are owned by either multiple private owners, are a publicly listed company

Zupps are owned by Automotive Holdings, stock code "AHE". The other big listed Dealer group is AP Eagers, stock code "APE". Both have had pretty good runs on the market actually.

Here's a list of the dealers that A P Eagers owns (not just it's namesake businesses): http://www.apeagers.com.au/dealerships.htm

Here's a list of the dealers that Automotive Holdings Group owns (in QLD, you have to change state to see the others): http://qld.ahg.com.au/dealer-search.php

Edit: sorry partially doubling up a bit on WhiteLS1SS's post.

Cheers, Matthew

[HSV590]

As i said earlier this just reinforces the idea of doing it yourself...... In the 20 plus years i have of building motors and cars there is no greater joy than watching something take shape and know you did it

That's fine if you have the time and the know how. Some of us poor punters have one or the other, or in my case, neither, so our options are limited when it comes to modding or simply servicing their car..

[pvk308]

Point taken HSV 590 mate..... the biggest thing i have learnt is everyone can do a simple oil change engine, gearbox, and diff and the airfilter and spark plugs are an easy change as well its not exactly rocket science mind you if your bought the car under warranty then your sort of bound by it

[HSV590]

Point taken HSV 590 but everyone can do a simple oil change engine, gearbox, and diff and the airfilter and spark plugs are an easy change as well its not exactly rocket science mind you if your bought the car under warranty then your sort of bound by it

Thats true too, and as much as my mechanical abilities are some what limited, I could do the little service jobs you described, but I'm lazy so I pay someone else to, but, I then don't whinge about what I'm charged, not that the OP was either, getting a little off topic here..

[Firebug]

Good to hear it it all sorted now Seldo. As was said If it were mine I would have also discussed an extension to the gearbox warranty... :yup:

[NickS]

I'm surprised NickS. Whilst posts like yours above to be expected from a couple of others (as they did earlier in this thread), I thought you were happy to operate above this level.

No ... not always, a bit of a dig never hurt anyone, don't take everything so seriously!

You should have been a school teacher mate, you have the condescending lecture thing nailed.

:stick:

[C4B]

You should have been a school teacher mate, you have the condescending lecture thing nailed.

How utterly true.

[Wonky]

Not true! As a former high school teacher of 13 years and with my wife and some friends having 30+ years in the classroom (poor bastards :nutkick:) I can say that good teachers are never condescending!!

[NickS]

Not true! As a former high school teacher of 13 years and with my wife and some friends having 30+ years in the classroom (poor bastards :nutkick:) I can say that good teachers are never condescending!!

I agree mate, and no offense meant ... but I wasn't referring to the good teachers!

[planetdavo]

No ... not always, a bit of a dig never hurt anyone, don't take everything so seriously!

You should have been a school teacher mate, you have the condescending lecture thing nailed.


Ahhh, I get it now. Textbook passive aggressive behaviour.
Slag someone off who was in no way involved in the current topic, then claim “I was only joking- so lighten up” when their true nature has been exposed.
Oh well, as “they” say- opinions are like @rseholes…everybody’s got one. :)

[LSavvy]

Seldo, what was the original problem before they fit the "trans cooler". It was playing up before the "mod" wasn't it?



Ahhh, I get it now. Textbook passive aggressive behaviour.

A lot would argue this type of behaviour is more your style.......

[NickS]

A lot would argue this type of behaviour is more your style.......

:yup: ... nothing aggressive from me Davo, drop the lectures and lighten up!

:D

[C4B]

Free psych assessments on an Internet forum....

[Xenon]

Davo replies to thread > Thread instantly derails into mud-slinging.

:( Sad panda.

[planetdavo]

Davo replies to thread > Thread instantly derails into mud-slinging.

:( Sad panda.

I get used to it Xenon.
Tis a funny old world the internet forum bubble. One person posts an inflammatory post and they get pats on the back, yet another person could post EXACTLY the same comment and they would have been called a troll...:jerk:
At least I wait for people to post up sh!t before telling them their post was sh!t and this is the real answer. Others appear to have rather powerful crystal balls- but it's not called trolling remember...:lol:
Anyway, I'll continue helping the good people on here. Most of you are good people. :)

[zorro]

It's funny how what was considered tongue in cheek light humor a few years back has now been evolved into 'trolling'. I miss the glory days of the Internet, IRC chat rooms, forums in their infancy with a couple of dozen members, 4chan, boostcruising.............. Just kidding on BC :lol:

Anyway Davo, I don't dislike you and certainly don't aim to discredit you in any way. You have a stronger relationship to your employer and hey I defend mine too on an occasional basis. Perception is a catch 22 in type, especially when the majority fail in their use of the English language. While I don't agree with some things you post, I do enjoy the debate as its usually fairly factual argument.

That's all, lets all keep being friends :D

[Angeldust]

^^^ too many 'normal' people started to use the internet.... the result: same as the hoon laws...ie restrictions etc