Problem with Mafless Tune - Advise

[chook]

Hi All,

I had a mafless tune done awhile ago by a guy on the central coast. To me the tune just never seemed right and although it made good numbers (269rwkw) and pulls hard it seems to have a dead spot in between gear changes. (M6). I have taken it back numerous times (4) and they have tried numerous things and although it is a little better than it was it still doesn't seem right.
Now I'm not after the guys blood, he has tried to resolve the issue and although he has done tunes previously I suspect not that many.
Car setup is

VE L98
Pacemaker 4 into 1
Dual 3" system
Hi flow cats
VCM OTR intake
Mafless tune

Symptoms are
If you sitting at idle and punch the throttle it appears to have a delay or dead spot before it learches into life. This is even more apparent when quickly changing between gears around 2000 to 3000 rpm. (OK at low revs. Also noticable if changing back quickly ay 4th to 3rd to give it a bootfull and accelerate. I am nearly ready to go to someone else but really not sure who. It was tuned using HP tuners which I suppose is commopn but I really want to take it to someone who knows their stuff. Now I know there are multiple sponsers on here that do tunes but this is not about who does best tunes etc, I want the person who can trouble shoot the problem. I wouldn't have thought that my setup is that unusual so I'm sure it can be sorted.
Yes I should have travelled to sydney but that easy to say in hindsight.
Anyone had any similar problems ?
Who would you guys recommend to sort this out?

[Wonky]

I'm far from an expert as have no experience with tuning software apart from watching lots of cars get tuned at Chev's but if it was an A6 I'd suggest the problem was related to torque management. However, I don't even know if M6s have anything similar.

[LuisS]

I'm far from an expert as have no experience with tuning software apart from watching lots of cars get tuned at Chev's but if it was an A6 I'd suggest the problem was related to torque management. However, I don't even know if M6s have anything similar.

They do Wonks :)

[zorro]

a shift assist to make gearchanges a bit nicer.......

[ACE_55V]

I've experienced same issues on my ve2 ute in a m6. So interested in seeing what people think. It seems like a delay between the pedal and the throttle opening.

[JezzaB]

Lots of things it could be from CFCO, Burst Knock, Torque Management etc etc... if your not happy how things are going and not comfortable with your tuner then take it to someone else.

[Richie217]

I'm far from an expert as have no experience with tuning software apart from watching lots of cars get tuned at Chev's but if it was an A6 I'd suggest the problem was related to torque management. However, I don't even know if M6s have anything similar.

Was thinking along the same lines, but as with you wasn't sure if the manuals had this.

Had my tuner load the stock auto setting to appease the gearbox builder as he thought the tune was responsible for his shoddy workmanship. Was sloppy off the line and would die in the ass for a few seconds between gear-shifts. Took the car back to the tuner after the box was rebuilt (again) telling them I suspected torque management may be the culprit, sure enough it was pulling stupid amounts of timing.

[jca]

could be muiltable things prob easier to leave the maf on it really with ur basic set up, get ur tuner to load std tune back in and start from there - baby steps un till he works out were he went wrong

[Jamolad]

Not sure but I think many reputable tuners would not try to fix someone else's tune - would think it more likely they will load up their own base tune and go from there. That way they know what they are starting with and what areas to change, whereas building on your existing tune could see them miss something buried somewhere by your original tuner. Updating your existing tune would probably take them longer too as they would have to re-check/confirm every facet of the tune. Starting from their own base tune they know they can trust the areas that they do not update when customising the tune to your car.

And I imagine cost would be the same whether they did their own custom tune from scratch or tidied up your existing tune (something to do with licences).

But note that I say "I think" and "I imagine" - ie. I don't really know. :)

[macca_779]

Your right Jamolad. No decent tuner would bother to try and fix the tune. It's a basic bolt ons car, not at all difficult

[toey]

why would they recommend going mafless for a bolt on ve

[GOT-307]

Mine seems to behave very similar to the OP. If I boot it at any amount of revs it takes about half a second (seems like a long time when your at the wheel) before anything happens. And also, if I give it a bit and dip the clutch before letting the revs settle below about 2k it stalls sometimes. Stalls sometimes if I rev it with the clutch in or in neutral unless I save it when it drops to about 300 revs. I'm gonna take it to Oztrack soon and replace the clutch/flywheel/fluids and get their opinion. Could just be the way I drive.

Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack the thread either :)

EDIT: Mods are also similar to OP. Xforce headers, cats and 3in, otr and mafless tune. Also, its a VE LS2 M6

[VZMaloo183]

"If I boot it at any amount of revs it takes about half a second (seems like a long time when your at the wheel) before anything happens."

Sure your not driving a Holden Cruze..LOL

Only joking Pal, hope you get it sorted.

[chillicatqld]

Mine had the same problem in hindsite (along with the other problems I listed in my other post).
see here:
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?159547-Help-needed-please-Ve-sportwagon-with-a-stutter


One symptom I noticed is when on freeway doing like 100klm/hr in 6th if you stab the throttle it is dead then "bang" the revs come in... really sucked.

Once my tune was returned to stock, all my problems went away... (but of "there was nothing wrong with my tune"!!)

My car changes gears better now, has engine compression (braking) on downgear, no lurch between 2-3,000 rpm and the "stab" in the throttle response has gone.... ogh and slightly better fuel economy too.

I have been meaning to go elsewhere for a MAF OTR tune, but just havnt had time and have been enjoying a problem free drive.. :)

I say return to stock is the ONLY way of ruling out tune problems... good luck

[Tre-Cool]

you guys with this problem running mafless?

if so, im betting the dynamics fuel side of the tune hasnt been touched from factory once the maf was removed.

[chook]

Guys the tuner suggested putting the MAF back and retuning with it on. Before going elsewhere and spending same $$$ again I gues it's worth a try.What is the general consensus, MAF or MAFLESS. I understand that the MAF on the VE's is pretty big so it wouldn't make too much difference (AGain I'm guessing here).

[bozodos]

I had a somewhat similar issue relating to my mafless tune - turned out to be burst knock causing it, was easily rectified by fitting new 02s and clearing the codes. Worth changing the 02s if you haven't already as mine tested fine but there was obviously something still up with them.

[charlie15]

changed my 02 sensors as well. car drove so much better.

[lidar]

I have had some issues with idling with my mafless tune for a while. Happened on and off. Tried many changes.................. except O2 sensors. Changed mine today........ so far o good. Whay I waited o long!!!!! F%@$k knows..............

[Woodchukka]

MAF or MAFless try these links.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?153422-Results-of-Pressure-testing-VE-Intake-systems&highlight=

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?160385-Results-of-Pressure-Testing-VZ-L76-Intake&highlight=intake+restriction

[HYMEY]

could be anything, but first thing make sure spark smoothing is disabled, dynamics can be played with to stop it. every car is different, even different OTRs believe it or not effect tip in. But I would leave the MAF on. I have done so many bolt on VE's and raced them over and over with and without it, and there is no difference if anything MAF on has the edge but u still have to set it up properly to make it feel good on the throttle. It sounds cool to have a mafless tune but it has its glitches that pop up and the tuner must no how to get ontop of it, but it is nothing but experience that will solve any e38 tuning issues. Forget about the dyno rwkw , get the fuel curve right, timing right, and setup all the basics and it will go well.

[toey]

id be going a maf tune. for a bolt on ve the maf isnt a restriction so why remove it. in the right hands the maf tune will be nice to drive then mafless

[jca]

true true stay maf unless going forced induction or massive cam etc, the e38 is very smart why take away half its brains

[swingtan]

MAF or MAFless, either should result in a better than stock feel. It could be in the tune or it could be a mechanical issue, but it should be better than stock.

Putting the MAF back on may help, if it does then I'm guessing the tune wasn't quite correct. HPT removes part of the default E38 setup when going to a MAFless tune and this can cause issues if not set up right. If it was an EFILive tune, I could take a look at it, but I don't use HPT. I can however get sub 0.2 second shifts with my M6 / E38 combo so I know that you can get excellent gear changes.

Simon.

[chook]

Thanks guys, going back AGAIN tomorrow, see what happens

[tsute]

I had same issue with my VE M6. It had a massive dead spot in the excelerator. Very noticable on hill starts, the car would always stall. 4 people has ago at fixing or installing a Mafless tune, Sean, Hi-Torque, BPS and last Power Torque.

In the end I went back to a Maf tune and perfect, full exhaust and runs 13.1

[scorpion]

Hi mate,

If you're on the Central Coast take a run up and see Mark at Streamline Automotive. They are the Walkinshaw dealer located at Warners Bay. The guy is a genius. My VE GTS had issues with the tune, would stall, had a flat spot etc, lurched forward at the lights. Tried several big names in Sydney and did nothing but loose time and money. Eventually took it to Newcastle, one visit, tune fixed and runs beautifully. I have a cam and mafless tune in the car.

Good luck

[chook]

Well 5 or so visits later I am still not happy with the result not so much in peak power but just general drivability. The thing has SFA throttle response when you punch the throttle and still despite multiple visits a flat spot when you first start off. Flat out acceleration appears to be ok but if I knock it back a gear and nail it it is awful. I also noticed that the thing is hunting revs (up , down, up) at cold start. which seems strange to me

I have basically given up on the tuner I used and am wanting to take it to someone who I know will really take the time to get it right. I'm sick of getting told it's because it has "Fly by Wire" throttle rather than a throttle cable and they are different, I don't think this would be the case.

I am after recomendations on a tuner who really knows his L98's and has done many VE's , VE Owners who are very happy with their tune. I don't care Maf or Mafless.

It is basic bolt on
Pacemaker Headers
Dual 3" with Hi Flow Cats
Mafless
OTR
Manual

Thanks Scorpion anybody else recommend anyone?

[Wonky]

Sounds strange. :weirdo: Don't think I've ever heard fly by wire blamed for such VE problems before. :(