VE SSV handling over standard SS and older Ls1 models

[charlie15]

Hi guys

Selling my Monaro this weekend and I'm looking to possibly buy a ve (I'd like a car with a bit of go but that can take a corner as well). I've driven a mates ve ss, however, it's quite modified and it felt like it handled corners quite well (for a sedan).

Can anyone let me know if there is a huge improvement over Pre 2006 models in the handling department and if the ve SSV would handle better than a standard ss (as I believe they may be slightly different in setup).

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Hos]

The SS and SSV have very similar setups, right from 06 until now. I am not aware of any significant changes as the model has gone through its various updates.

The Redline edition SSV's have FE2.5 and Brembo front brakes, but from what I've heard of that there is negligible difference between FE2 and FE2.5.

I'd be more inclined to keep the Monaro as they are more unique than the now common as dogs balls VE.

Hope this is of some help, I am sure others will chip in and possibly correct me if I am wrong. To see the changes through MYxx updates, Wikipedia has a fairly good overview on there.

Regards,


Hos

[Wonky]

Absolutely no difference between VE SS and SSV except possibly for the Redline as Hos mentioned but still SFA difference. In most people's eyes the VE chassis is better than pre VE and having had 2 VEs, 2 VZs and a VY (all V8s) I would definitely agree.

[charlie15]

Thanks wonky.

Thanks for the breakdown Hos, ill check wiki - the reason for selling my cv8 is simply because its been babied since purchase and its always been my second car. I need something that I won't care about and can enjoy. I'm not looking to upgrade, in my eyes it's more of a downgrade as ill be selling both current vehicles and buying a cheaper one.

I would have liked to keep the Monaro as a weekender but paying insurance/reg on 2 cars or even driving it everyday and seeing it depreciate once if hits the 100k mark wouldn't be a smart choice considering I should be putting my money towards a house or something of greater significance!

Plus, I know it's going to a good home, that makes it a little easier to let go of.

[whitels1ss]

I think standard the SS had slightly smaller wheels being 18 inch x 8 inch and the SSV had 19 inch x 8 inch

but apart from that nothing other than the fact the SSV was a slightly heavier car than the SS.

[shaneooo]

Yep above is spot on, SFA difference between SS and SSV...only 19 inch wheels vs 18 inch....really not going to notice that except when you replace the rubber...having said that the I would say go the SSV if you like leather and better spec interior etc.

The difference you may notice is the VE feels much more bigger, wider and less nimble when compared to a VZ, VY, VX, VT Commodore and especially a Monaro. My inlaws still have and love their VZ SS ute which I occasionally take for a spin, going from my VE into the VZ, straight away I notice the VZ feels narrower and smaller, which is a good thing when doing some spirited driving...lol:driving:

[whitels1ss]

Yep above is spot on, SFA difference between SS and SSV...only 19 inch wheels vs 18 inch....really not going to notice that except when you replace the rubber.
Buddy sorry but I do not agree with you there,
I think most car enthusiasts should be able to notice the difference in ride, steering and handling
between the different sizes of wheels.;)

[shaneooo]

Buddy sorry but I do not agree with you there,
I think most car enthusiasts should be able to notice the difference in ride, steering and handling
between the different sizes of wheels.;)

Personal preference, however done a few track days in my SSV and my GT, much preferred placing 18 inch rims on both cars than having the factory 19's...to increase a rim 1 inch and maintain the same width, there is not that much to be gained....yes tyre compound, weight of rim etc all more so play a bigger part plus less sidewall flex etc etc etc...but some people also prefer some flex which allows the ability to compress a bit and provide a slightly better contact patch, but again personal preference...

But comparing the heavy, high sitting SS and a SSV, not much noticeable difference except a little more bumpy in the SSV on our pothole ridden roads.

[whitels1ss]

Personal preference, however done a few track days in my SSV and my GT, much preferred placing 18 inch rims on both cars than having the factory 19's...to increase a rim 1 inch and maintain the same width, there is not that much to be gained....yes tyre compound, weight of rim etc all more so play a bigger part plus less sidewall flex etc etc etc...but some people also prefer some flex which allows the ability to compress a bit and provide a slightly better contact patch, but again personal preference...

But comparing the heavy, high sitting SS and a SSV, not much noticeable difference except a little more bumpy in the SSV on our pothole ridden roads.

Buddy I was not talking about "preference" I was talking about "feel". (yeah...re "preference"... I prefer the ride and traction of the smaller wheels as well for most driving.)
My comment was in reply to your comment that people would not be able to notice the difference in driving as you inferred in your post number 6,
you commented "not going to notice that except when you replace the rubber" :cheers:

[Angeldust]

ive asked this before as well...what would be quicker around a track, a ls2 VZ or a ls2 VE hsv? provided
the brakes/tyres are the same etc

ps. i wouldn't sell the munro over a VE

[whitels1ss]

ive asked this before as well...what would be quicker around a track, a ls2 VZ or a ls2 VE hsv? provided
the brakes/tyres are the same etc


The VZ weighs around 200kgs less than a VE HSV, the much lighter car would have to be faster IMHO.;)

[VNV8]

As above, plus I believe the diff ratios may be shorter in the VZ HSV.

[Angeldust]

i would love to see some numbers. The VE chassis handles very very well, BUT its a huge car, so could it be just an 'illusion' that
its 'fast' around a track as a smaller nimbler car (VT-VZ) will still lap faster?

[tyrhantc]

It really comes down to what you want. Yes the VT-VZ may be faster around a track but the VE definitely handles better and has a more poised feel going through those corners.

[Plenty]

The VZ weighs around 200kgs less than a VE HSV, the much lighter car would have to be faster IMHO.;)

VE would destroy the equivalent VZ around the track, lighter or not!

[Angeldust]

actually, i would love to see some lap times for a comparison off the following:

VS GTS 215i 6sp vs VT II GTS 300 6sp vs VZ ls2 Clubbie 6sp vs VE ls2 clubbie 6sp vs W427 (lol)

[macca_779]

VE would destroy the equivalent VZ around the track, lighter or not!

Maybe an Exec vs an Omega. Say a GTS vs a GTS, weight reins supreme and is the single most important factor if you want to go quick. Everything else is incremental and just hides weight be it power, tyre, brakes, suspension. Reduce weight and you improve everything. The VE does very well for how big it is no question there. But if you were to go to town on both a VZ and a VE for a track car with the associated ~200kg difference. The VZ would MUNT it.

[macca_779]

actually, i would love to see some lap times for a comparison off the following:

VS GTS 215i 6sp vs VT II GTS 300 6sp vs VZ ls2 Clubbie 6sp vs VE ls2 clubbie 6sp vs W427 (lol)

W427 for sure in that comparison. Its not a equal comparison of chassis alone by a long shot

[whitels1ss]

Maybe an Exec vs an Omega. Say a GTS vs a GTS, weight reins supreme and is the single most important factor if you want to go quick. Everything else is incremental and just hides weight be it power, tyre, brakes, suspension. Reduce weight and you improve everything. The VE does very well for how big it is no question there. But if you were to go to town on both a VZ and a VE for a track car with the associated ~200kg difference. The VZ would MUNT it.
Absolutely correct:goodjob:

[VR304]

Interesting link this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arff-ZXmabAZdEFEWHRXWU1BbW9VZVF1MFZQNnlHS1E#gid=0

Contains some Motor Mag laptimes at Wakefield

1-Sep-2009 Holden HSV W427 69.30 1:09.30 Warren Luff Dry
1-Nov-2008 Holden HSV GTS 70.20 1:10.20 Warren Luff Dry
1-Sep-2008 Holden HSV Clubsport R8 70.30 1:10.30 Warren Luff Dry
1-Sep-2005 Holden HSV Clubsport DTS 70.69 1:10.69 Rick Bates Dry
1-Sep-2007 Holden HSV Clubsport R8 70.69 1:10.69 Warren Luff Dry
1-Jul-2007 Holden HSV Clubsport R8 71.50 1:11.50 Warren Luff Drying
1-Jul-2009 Holden HSV Grange 71.50 1:11.50 Warren Luff Dry
1-Oct-2003 Holden HSV GTS Coupe 71.81 1:11.81 Rick Bates Dry
1-Sep-2004 Holden HSV GTS 72.16 1:12.16 Rick Bates Dry

Diffferent days, conditions, and drivers, so make of it what you will. To me, the E Series and Z Series DTS look on par ...

[BLU50L]

I just bought a new ss z series which is now the standard ss and it came with 19" wheels as standard. Paid an extra 2k for leather though.

[Micks]

I have both a MY06 VZ & MY10 VE. The VZ has aftermarket suspension & goes where you point it! The VE std FE2.5 is different but it does grow on you, won't say the VE's are light years ahead Nor a better Chassis @ all!!! All depends on how much $$$ your prepared to throw @ them & how well or not you want them to handle!!!

[evil_ss]

Here is an unbiased view of vz vs ve which I like
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f67/new-vs-old-review-ve-commodore-ss-v-vs-vz-commodore-ss-57758/

[Micks]

Here is an unbiased view of vz vs ve which I like
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f67/new-vs-old-review-ve-commodore-ss-v-vs-vz-commodore-ss-57758/
An early VZ04 is no comparison!!!

[Plenty]

Interesting link this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arff-ZXmabAZdEFEWHRXWU1BbW9VZVF1MFZQNnlHS1E#gid=0

Contains some Motor Mag laptimes at Wakefield

1-Sep-2009 Holden HSV W427 69.30 1:09.30 Warren Luff Dry
1-Nov-2008 Holden HSV GTS 70.20 1:10.20 Warren Luff Dry
1-Sep-2008 Holden HSV Clubsport R8 70.30 1:10.30 Warren Luff Dry
1-Sep-2005 Holden HSV Clubsport DTS 70.69 1:10.69 Rick Bates Dry
1-Sep-2007 Holden HSV Clubsport R8 70.69 1:10.69 Warren Luff Dry
1-Jul-2007 Holden HSV Clubsport R8 71.50 1:11.50 Warren Luff Drying
1-Jul-2009 Holden HSV Grange 71.50 1:11.50 Warren Luff Dry
1-Oct-2003 Holden HSV GTS Coupe 71.81 1:11.81 Rick Bates Dry
1-Sep-2004 Holden HSV GTS 72.16 1:12.16 Rick Bates Dry

Diffferent days, conditions, and drivers, so make of it what you will. To me, the E Series and Z Series DTS look on par ...

Lets not forget though that the VZ DTS is also a "track" special, retuned spings and damper rates, semi-slick tyres and also more negative camber to increase contact.

The VE chassis is far superior to the VZ nearly 50:50 weight distribution and a body that is 50% stiffer than the VZ was. Much shorter front and rear overhangs reducing weight past the axle lines.

VE front suspension a double pivot Mcpherson strut vs the VZ simple Mcpherson strut, VE rear suspension is a 4-link independent rear vs the VZ's much loathed semi-trailing arm.

The VE also achieved a world class 55 hertz in torsional rigidity which not even the Euros could match at the time.
On a side note i've owned both and spent track time in both as standard cars, i know which one is quicker around the track and it doesn't end in 'Z'.

[Micks]

Lets not forget though that the VZ DTS is also a "track" special, retuned spings and damper rates, semi-slick tyres and also more negative camber to increase contact.

The VE chassis is far superior to the VZ nearly 50:50 weight distribution and a body that is 50% stiffer than the VZ was. Much shorter front and rear overhangs reducing weight past the axle lines.

VE front suspension a double pivot Mcpherson strut vs the VZ simple Mcpherson strut, VE rear suspension is a 4-link independent rear vs the VZ's much loathed semi-trailing arm.

The VE also achieved a world class 55 hertz in torsional rigidity which not even the Euros could match at the time.
On a side note i've owned both and spent track time in both as standard cars, i know which one is quicker around the track and it doesn't end in 'Z'.

Either model on factory suspension regardless of the "technology" is pretty ordinary in stock form!

[Angeldust]

Lets not forget though that the VZ DTS is also a "track" special, retuned spings and damper rates, semi-slick tyres and also more negative camber to increase contact.

The VE chassis is far superior to the VZ nearly 50:50 weight distribution and a body that is 50% stiffer than the VZ was. Much shorter front and rear overhangs reducing weight past the axle lines.

VE front suspension a double pivot Mcpherson strut vs the VZ simple Mcpherson strut, VE rear suspension is a 4-link independent rear vs the VZ's much loathed semi-trailing arm.

The VE also achieved a world class 55 hertz in torsional rigidity which not even the Euros could match at the time.
On a side note i've owned both and spent track time in both as standard cars, i know which one is quicker around the track and it doesn't end in 'Z'.



but since there was no 'GTS' model in the VZ range, those clubbies ie HDT, HRT and HSVDT and the SV6000 are in a way the equivalents of the GTS model (that was
was always a limited run till the VE....(can of worms lol)).

[Angeldust]

Interesting link this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Arff-ZXmabAZdEFEWHRXWU1BbW9VZVF1MFZQNnlHS1E#gid=0

Contains some Motor Mag laptimes at Wakefield

......
Diffferent days, conditions, and drivers, so make of it what you will. To me, the E Series and Z Series DTS look on par ...


is the 2008 VE the one with the ls3?

[Hos]

Holden VE's have only had L98, L76 and L77 in v8 guise.

HSV E series have had LS2/LS3 as far as I know. Happy to be corrected.


Hos

[Wonky]

Holden VE's have only had L98, L76 and L77 in v8 guise.

HSV E series have had LS2/LS3 as far as I know. Happy to be corrected.


Hos

:yup: HSV went to LS3 from LS2 in around May 2008.

[Angeldust]

Holden VE's have only had L98, L76 and L77 in v8 guise.

HSV E series have had LS2/LS3 as far as I know. Happy to be corrected.


Hos


+ ls7 for HSV

[Hos]

+ ls7 for HSV

That's true, LS7 in the HSV W427.


Hos

[VRIIClubby]

The Redline edition SSV's have FE2.5 and Brembo front brakes, but from what I've heard of that there is negligible difference between FE2 and FE2.5.


Hos

Hos, Redline has FE3, unless you own a Redline Wagon pre 2012 (mine) where you get the FE2...

are we all playing with ourselves?

VE chassis shits all over the previous commodores, as others have said, there is no beating a car that has 50/50 weight split when compared against the old club!

The Dynamics of the car stock is damn good! The difference between the Z and the E would be like upgrading from a Cybershot Camera to a Canon DSLR...even in Auto it gets it right...

and the folks going on about modding, spend the same dosh on the VE and it will flog the VZ until it's red like a 13yo home alone with daddys porn collection

[Swordie]

I wouldn't of thought the difference between VY / VZ and VE is "huge improvement". This means quite a big difference.

The VE is better, it has almost 50 / 50 front / rear weight balance.

[macca_779]

I wouldn't of thought the difference between VY / VZ and VE is "huge improvement". This means quite a big difference.

The VE is better, it has almost 50 / 50 front / rear weight balance.

I've had no problems carving up VE's in the twisties. Either there is nothing in it or I'm an awesome driver. Just sayin


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[VRIIClubby]

I've had no problems carving up VE's in the twisties. Either there is nothing in it or I'm an awesome driver. Just sayin


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bahahaha, I have also carved up many VX, VY's in my VR, doesnt mean it's better! Im just one of those crazy fuk's that pushes that little harder than most!

[Plenty]

I've had no problems carving up VE's in the twisties. Either there is nothing in it or I'm an awesome driver. Just sayin


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Same driver, same day and same location.... VE wins no arguement, don't think manufacturers are in the business of spending a Billion dollars to make a car slower!

[701let]

bahahaha, I have also carved up many VX, VY's in my VR, doesnt mean it's better! Im just one of those crazy fuk's that pushes that little harder than most!

Great call! Haha

As others have said GM didn't spend a billion dollars for the fun of it. After driving any pre Ve then driving a Ve the difference in the two stands out like dogs balls!!

[BLU50L]

I haven't had a commodore for a few years. My last was a vx Berlina 5.7.
I gave to say the ve ss s2 that I just bought is so much better in every single way. Light years ahead. Really can't believe how much better it is.

[macca_779]

I haven't had a commodore for a few years. My last was a vx Berlina 5.7.
I gave to say the ve ss s2 that I just bought is so much better in every single way. Light years ahead. Really can't believe how much better it is.

Berlina's are not a sports model. Not a relevant comparison


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[BLU50L]

No but I'm comparing a ve to an older model.