Pedders XA coilover shocks repeat failure?

[Xjas]

So I went on a little trip over the weekend to a small town out near West Wyalong from Newcastle, Saturday afternoon about 50km from West Wyalong the car started to feel a bit funny and very unsettled over the bumpy road, when I got West Wylong I poked my head under the back of the car and found both rear shocks of the coilovers were covered in oil and had obviously failed. I have already had one of these shocks replaced before, less than 10000kms ago and I'm stuggling to figure out why this is happening. The car is nothing special, a cammed VE with only 300rwkw, not overly low, its spot on legal height as it was engineered only a few months ago, at the time of failure the car wasn't heavily loaded, just myself and an overnight bag in the boot, travelling at the posted speed limit. The car has never been track dayed, or the drags, doest have a towbar so its never towed a heavy load.

I just cant work out why it would fail both shocks at the same time, has anyone else had this happen or have any idea what might cause such a failure?

Since there was no Pedders dealers open Saturday afternoon or Sunday and I have to work Monday I was left with no choice but to finish the trip with no working rear shocks, what an unpleasant 750kms that was.

[D_BLOCK]

I looked into the XA's about a year or so ago,and a guy that owns one of the franchises was very straight up about the whole design of this unit.
He didnt like it and told me it was flawed.He said it was the geometry that was out of kilta and failures had happened and would happen more as the became
popular. This guy was designing some sort of bracket to compliment the setup so that the movement stayed true.
I never went for the XA's in the end but appreciated the guys honesty.
Take it for what its worth,im only repeating what i was told.

*Not affiliated with any suspension shop .

cheers
jas

[SS317]

I was told by Scott pedder that setting them too low was making the rears fail, this was after I asked him why my new coilovers wouldn't get the rear of my car as low as all my mates VE's with XA's. He said they had made changes to them so they won't go as low to save the shocks, looked like the springs are just set higher to me. Sounded like a cheap fix to me.

[calais190]

I'm not sure when you originally purchased these but there have been a revised set released for the rear of VEs. It basically stops then going as low as the originally did and prevents premature wear on them. According to Pedders, if they last the full warranty period then we as customers have nothing to complain about. The top sales manager told me this personally on the phone. I think if you pay $2500 for suspension you expect the best and you expect it for longer than the 2 year standard warranty period.

I'd be making yourself heard about this. Don't complain at dealer level, call Pedders HQ and make sure they know what has happened. The squeaky cog gets the oil.

Edit: ss317 beat me to it

[Timson]

Mate it's funny how close your story is to mine. The weekend before we headed from Victoria to Parkes in NSW. The first shocker failed on the way up and the second failed on the way back home. The funny thing is we went through West Wyalong to get home. Travelled similar distance to you, very nervous ride home to say the least.
I have already had both rears shockers replaced, supposedly with the revised units. I have been told by Pedders in Parkes that you can tell if they are revised shocks because they will have a fluro dot on them. I have also spoken to the Dave Farley who I think is the general manager for Pedders and he first said that the failure might be due to how low the suspension is set. One shocker lasted only 5000klms which is pretty poor in my opinion. My suspension is not overly low, the guard sits just above the tyre. My complaint is that Pedders set the ride height and didn't say anything about potential failure of the shockers if the car is set at this height.
I am still waiting for new shocks to be fitted wich is pretty poor as my car is driven every day. Pedders in my town has just changed hands and Dave has spoken to the new installer and it might be in installation issue so once the shocks have been fitted I need to take the car to Melbourne for him to personally inspect the install to make sure that everything has been installed properly. Three sets of shocks in two years is starting to piss me off. The suspension is now out of warranty but Dave has said that I will be looked after as I have had failures in the past. Pedders seem to be genuine in wanting to help me out but I have lost faith in the product now. My main gripe is that the suspension should not have been installed at a ride height that would chew the shocks out. I was sold suspension on the understanding that I could set them at any height I wanted, now this might not be the case.
Sorry for the long post but it has been an ongoing problem for me and I am at the stage where I am ready to pull the suspension out of the car and bin it.
Cheers, Tim.

[calais190]

I have been lucky with mine - two years on and they're fine. The amount of failed shocks I've heard of doesn't leave me with a lot of confidence. The last thing id want is to have to replace them out of my own pocket this year after the two year warranty is up...

[steve_t]

My main gripe is that the suspension should not have been installed at a ride height that would chew the shocks out. I was sold suspension on the understanding that I could set them at any height I wanted, now this might not be the case.
Sorry for the long post but it has been an ongoing problem for me and I am at the stage where I am ready to pull the suspension out of the car and bin it.
Cheers, Tim.

Sounds like a "not fit for purpose" case if I've ever heard one. Three sets in 2 years? Definitely a design fault. If they don't give you a new set with a drastic change their design, just get your money back.

[Timson]

Sounds like a "not fit for purpose" case if I've ever heard one. Three sets in 2 years? Definitely a design fault. If they don't give you a new set with a drastic change their design, just get your money back.

Yeah that's my argument with Pedders. I was told that I might have to raise the car about an inch to let the shock have more travel. That's a big height difference from where it is now. When I went to the Pedders store and told them the ride height I wanted and was advised to go with the coil overs. So if it not a fitment issue and they cannot gaurentee how long they will last I don't want the suspension in the car. Dave told me that in most cases is is because the suspension is too low and the shocks are bottoming out and failing. The question I have is why allow the suspension to go lower than the shocker can handle? Sort of defeats the purpose of having adjustable ride height.
Cheers, Tim.

[Xjas]

At least it looks like I'm not alone on this.

I have 15mm between the top of the tyre and bottom of the guard on the rear so I would hope the ride height isnt the issue, the adjustment on the shocks is set to about half way between full soft and hard so that should be ok. One thing that stand out is when I had my first failure it was the first time I had driven the car with 2 adult passengers in the back and last weeked I took our two kids, 3 adults (including the driver) and a boot full of luggage to Canberra so maybe they are bottoming out and causing issues.
I understand that for $2500 I'm not buying the best coilovers around but I would still expect the shocks to last more than 10000kms, mine are out of warranty and I'll have to pay for the repair but I have no isssue with that, my only concern with this is safety.
Driving a car with both rear shocks failed is down right dangerous, I was aware of the problem and could drive accordingly (and it was still sketchy) but my wife uses the car to take our kids to Eden to see her olds sometimes, she probably wouldnt notice the change in behaviour of the car if the shocks failed again and could end up in an accident. Considering mine is not an isolated incident my XAs are done, I will replace them with something else no matter the cost, I will not knowingly put the safety of my family at risk is such a way, even if this means I have to go back to stock FE2.

Thanks for the replys gents, especially Tim, you have helped me make up my mind to ditch them.

[kayman]

Bugger. I have a second hand set of these waiting to go in. I was going to set them a little higher at the rear to help turn in anyway but now looks like I will be forced to. Has there been any problem with the front shocks?

[Timson]

If you change your mind and decide to keep the suspension I would push for the shocks to be replaced free of charge, there have been too many failures for Pedders not to admit fault of product. I will see what the response is from Dave form Pedders before making a decision whether I ditch mine or not. If I am told that the ride height needs to be changed to stop the failures I will push for a refund and buy something else. The concerns you have are the same as mine, we tried to get it fixed on the Saturday but no-one had any spares. I tried about a dozen stores from Dubbo to Albury and nothing, not very good after sales service. We drove form Parkes and the second failed around Temora. We drove from Temora to Traralgon in Vic with two busted shocks, not something I really want to do again.
Cheers, Tim.

[Xjas]

If you change your mind and decide to keep the suspension I would push for the shocks to be replaced free of charge, there have been too many failures for Pedders not to admit fault of product. I will see what the response is from Dave form Pedders before making a decision whether I ditch mine or not. If I am told that the ride height needs to be changed to stop the failures I will push for a refund and buy something else. The concerns you have are the same as mine, we tried to get it fixed on the Saturday but no-one had any spares. I tried about a dozen stores from Dubbo to Albury and nothing, not very good after sales service. We drove form Parkes and the second failed around Temora. We drove from Temora to Traralgon in Vic with two busted shocks, not something I really want to do again.
Cheers, Tim.

I rang Pedders this morning, $650 parts and labour to install 2 new rear shocks and wheel align which I feel is very reasonable but they have none in stock and wouldn't see them till thursday. Parts availability aside, I have had fantastic service from Pedders at Gateshead but even if they replaced them for free it would not be enough I think. Got a pretty good price from a local supplier this morning on H&Rs and am going to contact GSL Rallysport today or tomorrow regarding a set of Drummonds, if my car was a track work + city driving only car it wouldn't be such an issue but I need to use it for long trips and it seems the XAs just aren't up to the task in my application.

[white lie]

They're just a below par quality setup. Seen way too many spring and shock failures for them to not realise there is a problem. Price should not be an issue, nor should the ride height if it is within the range that the product can be adjusted. What's the point of making a setup that goes to a certain point if you can never actually use it at that point? I've had failures well above the legal limit in terms of ride height.

IMO they just aren't designed to operate with the weight of these vehicles, which is a design flaw. They should be able to carry a full car load of gear, just like any aftermarket spring or shock.

[zorro]

So are the shocks setup to be approximate standard height with little tolerance for lower causing more force on the shock and blowing seals or is it just poor design/quality of product?

Martin mentioned a while ago that VEs bounce around a lot in the rear which I agree with, add in the fact they are a heavy car this would put more stress on the shock.

Pedders recognize the issue and have released a revised shock to minimise this happening, product recall without calling it one. If you want to keep the setup then I would be demanding the new shocks as replacements

[Timson]

My second set were the revised shocks, both have now failed again and one failed at 5000klms so I'm not entirely sure the problem has been fixed.
If the product doesn't suit the application then they should not be selling them.
Cheers, Tim.

[zorro]

Can I ask the question, why put coilovers on in the first place?

[SS317]

Can I ask the question, why put coilovers on in the first place?

I've had king SSSL, SSL and pedders springs in my Ve with and with out Monroe sports shocks and not one combo i tried came close the the pedders XA's for ride and handling, it's a shame that there is a drama with the rear shocks as apart from that I'd say there the best suspension setup I've used in a Ve.

[white lie]

Maybe you should have gone with a decent shock instead of Monroes.... Try Bilstein or Koni ;)

[Wonky]

Can I ask the question, why put coilovers on in the first place?

I went with H&R coilovers on the ute because a) I got them for an excellent price b) they use quality Bilstein shocks with German springs and c) most importantly if I get done for too low there's no mucking around - just wind them back up. They give a firmish ride but far from harsh!

[SS317]

Maybe you should have gone with a decent shock instead of Monroes.... Try Bilstein or Koni ;)

Had bilsteins and Konis in may walky and to be honest I wasn't all that impressed with either of them, or maybe it was just a VL thing, anyway I wanted to try something new in the ve and that's why I went for the XA's.

[BLACK 346]

I went with H&R coilovers on the ute because a) I got them for an excellent price b) they use quality Bilstein shocks with German springs and c) most importantly if I get done for too low there's no mucking around - just wind them back up. They give a firmish ride but far from harsh!

Not sure how it works in Vic, but pretty sure if you get done here in SA with them, it wont be just a matter of winding back up, you would be defected for having them, and made to remove them to clear the defect.

OP: I was seriously considering a set of the XA's, not so sure now. Thanks for sharing this with us though, hope they rectify it for you.

[Hos]

Not sure how it works in Vic, but pretty sure if you get done here in SA with them, it wont be just a matter of winding back up, you would be defected for having them, and made to remove them to clear the defect.

That is 100% correct. I had them in my VE SS ute when I bought it in Melbourne. Brought it to SA, tried to get rego and couldn't. Adjustable height coil overs are illegal in SA, unless they can be modified (read made to defeat their own purpose) to prevent them lowering below legal ride height for relevant vehicle. Know of one person who had an insurance claim rejected for having adjustable coil overs fitted, vehicle deemed unroadworthy.

[calais190]

OUt of curiosity, how low were the cars that the shocks failed?

Mine is like this and it's almost been two years - no signs of failing as yet...

On 20's:
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/calais190/C6F7D359-1910-465C-A3F2-094380484919-9265-00000A60AF050077.jpg

On 19's:
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/calais190/BDC626B3-EE78-4FB8-AA48-3BFBC211674A-686-000000DE3154129B_zpscb2730b7.jpg

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/calais190/31E376CB-88E0-4944-90CC-3DC8E529016D-686-000000DE2AA0D027_zpsc054d8e8.jpg

[VRIIClubby]

Welcome to some of the best roads in NSW! lol...The stretches you travelled on are some of the crappiest roads I have ever seen in all my travels, and I live localish so travel them very regularly!

But, what a crock of shit from Pedders, obviously they arent up to taking the weight of the bigger cars, then to say you have them set to low is a complete crock of shit, I would be going to fair trading (if given this BS advise) and request that I paid this $XX to meet this spec, So now you make it like you agreed, if that means meeting the terms I paid for with another brand then so be it, your loss, not mine.

But, pedders is shit...I have always known this? Or have I always just been a brand snob? Looks like for a good reason,


I've had king SSSL, SSL and pedders springs in my Ve with and with out Monroe sports shocks and not one combo i tried came close the the pedders XA's for ride and handling, it's a shame that there is a drama with the rear shocks as apart from that I'd say there the best suspension setup I've used in a Ve.

Some of the best names in suspension right there to go up against the awesomeness of the Pedders brand, Those "branded" springs would make any shock feel like shit!

[calais190]

Welcome to some of the best roads in NSW! lol...The stretches you travelled on are some of the crappiest roads I have ever seen in all my travels, and I live localish so travel them very regularly!

But, what a crock of shit from Pedders, obviously they arent up to taking the weight of the bigger cars, then to say you have them set to low is a complete crock of shit, I would be going to fair trading (if given this BS advise) and request that I paid this $XX to meet this spec, So now you make it like you agreed, if that means meeting the terms I paid for with another brand then so be it, your loss, not mine.

But, pedders is shit...I have always known this? Or have I always just been a brand snob? Looks like for a good reason,



Some of the best names in suspension right there to go up against the awesomeness of the Pedders brand, Those "branded" springs would make any shock feel like shit!

Interesting comment... From what I understand of it, you are telling us that Pedders is shit, King springs and Monroe are shit, and seeing SS317 couldn't tell the difference between any of that even when directly comparing it to the Koni/Bilsteins, then everything must be shit...

If nothing is good, we may as well go back to stock FE2/3...

[Xjas]

Can I ask the question, why put coilovers on in the first place?

They were in my car when I bought it, and to give credit where credits due I have had none of the axle tramp issues that seem to be common with VEs so they do have some positives.

[Xjas]

Welcome to some of the best roads in NSW! lol...The stretches you travelled on are some of the crappiest roads I have ever seen in all my travels, and I live localish so travel them very regularly!

But, what a crock of shit from Pedders, obviously they arent up to taking the weight of the bigger cars, then to say you have them set to low is a complete crock of shit, I would be going to fair trading (if given this BS advise) and request that I paid this $XX to meet this spec, So now you make it like you agreed, if that means meeting the terms I paid for with another brand then so be it, your loss, not mine.

The stretch from Barmedman to West Wyalong would have to be one of the worst pieces of sealed road in NSW and its been like that for as long as I remember.

[Timson]

OUt of curiosity, how low were the cars that the shocks failed?

Mine is like this and it's almost been two years - no signs of failing as yet...

On 20's:
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/calais190/C6F7D359-1910-465C-A3F2-094380484919-9265-00000A60AF050077.jpg

On 19's:
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/calais190/BDC626B3-EE78-4FB8-AA48-3BFBC211674A-686-000000DE3154129B_zpscb2730b7.jpg

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/calais190/31E376CB-88E0-4944-90CC-3DC8E529016D-686-000000DE2AA0D027_zpsc054d8e8.jpg

Mine sits 10-15mm higher than that at the rear.

[Timson]

1819
Found a pic. It's not that low, so I don't think the failure is due to the ride height.

[calais190]

That height looks fantastic though! It must be the road quality. Why would both shocks go at the same time unless they hit similar bumps which killed them?

[Timson]

They didn't go at exactly the same time there was about 400klms between the two. One failed on the way up to Parkes on Friday and the other failed on the way home to Traralgon on Monday. I agree the roads are shit up that way but I was going pretty easy as the wife hates hitting potholes in the car. I had two kids in the back and the boot had some luggage and a car fridge. The other suggestion from Pedders is the car may have been overloaded with weight, but if that is overloaded then the suspension still fails by design. How would you go putting 3 100kg guys in the back and filling the boot with grog and heading to Bathurst? Now that is what the car is designed for and the suspension design should reflect that!
Cheers, Tim.

[calais190]

I'm going to guess it's a mixture of more weight and poor road quality that breaks them... My car is almost always empty...

[Hos]

^^^^^^^
Nigel.

I think the shocks should last, regardless of selected ride height and road surface. These things are meant to be able to be set at X height, it shouldn't dramatically increase the risk of failure. As for the road surface, it'd have to be pretty ordinary to significantly impact the life span of the shock ( I'm thinking thousands of kilometers of corrugations etc). This is only my perspective, but surely a 'purpose built' component should have more longevity.

I wonder if Pedders are reading this thread? Perhaps they should be sent a link...

[duke5700]

Its cheap nasty shit with a pedders logo on it.. they have no influence on design. You can exactly the same crap from a few different manufacturers straight out of China. Its like when they they had TDSS Drieshafts and selling them for 3 times the price.. and trying to flog them off as their own.

[Xjas]

It's not that low, so I don't think the failure is due to the ride height.

Mine sits higher than yours so I doubt the height is an issue in my case either.
I dont understand how the shocks could be bottoming out to cause the damage, the ride height is adjusted on the bottom of the coilover assembly, not by adjusting the spring seat, so no matter where you set the ride height the spring and shock travel doesn't change so they should always bottom on the bump stop before the shock piston bottoms out.

[VendeTTR]

I've had my pedders XA's for a few years now and not one single issue apart from the rear spring being far too low. Ride great and handle great for a street car.

[VRIIClubby]

Interesting comment... From what I understand of it, you are telling us that Pedders is shit, King springs and Monroe are shit, and seeing SS317 couldn't tell the difference between any of that even when directly comparing it to the Koni/Bilsteins, then everything must be shit...

If nothing is good, we may as well go back to stock FE2/3...

Read again buddy..

"Those "branded" springs would make any shock feel like shit!" King Springs and Pedders are SHIT, made from crap quality steel and components on the cheap. thats a fact.

Not once did I say Monroe was crap, and you cant "Directly compare" a Koni/Bilsteins setup on a VL to the VE which is what SS317 said his Koni setup was on....need I continue? please read the whole comment mate.


Its cheap nasty shit with a pedders logo on it.. they have no influence on design. You can exactly the same crap from a few different manufacturers straight out of China. Its like when they they had TDSS Drieshafts and selling them for 3 times the price.. and trying to flog them off as their own.

Duke understands and see's the flaws in the pedders concept, how could you in a logical mindset say that they (Pedders) are good when you purchase a "fully adjustable" system that isnt "allowed" to be fully adjusted?
And as for King Springs, how many threads are there on here that go on and on and on and on about the quality issues? same springs at different heights etc etc.

[Magnum9]

They didn't go at exactly the same time there was about 400klms between the two. One failed on the way up to Parkes on Friday and the other failed on the way home to Traralgon on Monday. I agree the roads are shit up that way but I was going pretty easy as the wife hates hitting potholes in the car. I had two kids in the back and the boot had some luggage and a car fridge. The other suggestion from Pedders is the car may have been overloaded with weight, but if that is overloaded then the suspension still fails by design. How would you go putting 3 100kg guys in the back and filling the boot with grog and heading to Bathurst? Now that is what the car is designed for and the suspension design should reflect that!
Cheers, Tim.

Once one went the other would have been doing the job of two, so pretty much guaranteed to fail also.

[lmoengnr]

I dont understand how the shocks could be bottoming out to cause the damage


The shocks shouldn't be bottoming out, unless they're the wrong length. Even if the springs are 'coil bound', the shocks shouldn't bottom out. The travel should be limited by the bump stops. I think the actual damper cant handle the load of a VE, and the piston rod flexes, and chews out the seals.

[Xjas]

The shocks shouldn't be bottoming out, unless they're the wrong length. Even if the springs are 'coil bound', the shocks shouldn't bottom out. The travel should be limited by the bump stops. I think the actual damper cant handle the load of a VE, and the piston rod flexes, and chews out the seals.

I was refering what Scott Pedder had told SS317 as per the quote below, I agree that designed correctly the shock should not be able to bottom out hence I dont see how changing the ride height would save the shocks but I'm certainly no expert on the subject.


I was told by Scott pedder that setting them too low was making the rears fail, this was after I asked him why my new coilovers wouldn't get the rear of my car as low as all my mates VE's with XA's. He said they had made changes to them so they won't go as low to save the shocks, looked like the springs are just set higher to me. Sounded like a cheap fix to me.

[SS317]

Read again buddy..

"Those "branded" springs would make any shock feel like shit!" King Springs and Pedders are SHIT, made from crap quality steel and components on the cheap. thats a fact.

Not once did I say Monroe was crap, and you cant "Directly compare" a Koni/Bilsteins setup on a VL to the VE which is what SS317 said his Koni setup was on....need I continue? please read the whole comment mate.



No need to be a smart ass buddy

I never used the Walky as a comparison to the Ve, it was just my experience with those brands of shock and the reason why I wanted to try somthing differant.

I wonder if how hard you have the rear shocks set has anything to do with the failures?

[VRIIClubby]

No need to be a smart ass buddy

I never used the Walky as a comparison to the Ve, it was just my experience with those brands of shock and the reason why I wanted to try somthing differant.

I wonder if how hard you have the rear shocks set has anything to do with the failures?

SS317, I wasnt being a smartarse, apoligies if you feel I was...and i never said you did compare them, Calais190 made that statement and I clearly said you couldnt compare and that I didnt say Monroe was shit ;)

IMHO after using them all, in all sorts of cars, they are the shittiest example available, sold on mass to the masses because of their price point, not their quality or R&D, the old saying of you get what you pay for rings true for everything in life,

The roads these two examples where driving on are seriously some of the shittiest roads getting around NSW, so maybe the damper settings are to hard, but they still shouldnt fail like quite a few people on here have experienced.

[SS317]

Yeah no worries.

Its fine to say the XA's are no good and so on but at the end of the day this dose nothing for the guys that have spent there cash and are stuck with them, I for one am happy with the the way my Ve performs with them and im only concerned with the failures guys are having.

[04cv8]

I know this thread is mainly about VEs being fitted with XAs and failing, but I've had these fitted to my 04 monaro for 2 years now and haven't had an issue. When i first had them fitted i wasnt happy with the ride height so i took it back in to have them drop it as far as they could go, they actually ended up removing the bottom collar, allowing the collar that holds the spring to sit as low as it could go (2 years no issues). Judging from previous threads on the XAs and this thread it seems that anything pre VE no issues. Were the Pedders XA coilovers produced before the VE was released? and what was the difference between the Extreme XAs and the XAs? were the Extreme XAs a revised product trying to eleminate the failures when fitted to VE?

[04cv8]

*were the supercar XAs a revised product trying to eliminate the failures when fitted to VE?

[Timson]

Just an update on my car after talking to the new installers. Turns out that when my suspension was originally fitted they fitted it with zero preload. As in when the car is up on the hoist and the suspension droops the spring is very loose. So loose to the point that the spring drops 20mm away from the top spring plate. So every time I go over a bump the spring unloads and allows the shocker to float and move around. When the weight of the car comes back down and the shocker compresses the shaft slides in on a slight angle and causes the seals to wear. After looking at the design of the shock if you adjust the ride height via the lower nut you cannot reduce the shock travel to the point where the shock bottoms out. You are changing the height by adjusting the sleeve connected to the lower ball joint. If you change the ride height by compressing the spring via the top nuts you will reduce the piston stroke to the point where the shock will bottom out. This is how it was explained to me by the new fitters. I still have my concerns as to whether this is a long term fix as I think the shock is still not suited to the car.
Cheers. Tim.

[boggers007]

Just an update on my car after talking to the new installers. Turns out that when my suspension was originally fitted they fitted it with zero preload. As in when the car is up on the hoist and the suspension droops the spring is very loose. So loose to the point that the spring drops 20mm away from the top spring plate. So every time I go over a bump the spring unloads and allows the shocker to float and move around. When the weight of the car comes back down and the shocker compresses the shaft slides in on a slight angle and causes the seals to wear. After looking at the design of the shock if you adjust the ride height via the lower nut you cannot reduce the shock travel to the point where the shock bottoms out. You are changing the height by adjusting the sleeve connected to the lower ball joint. If you change the ride height by compressing the spring via the top nuts you will reduce the piston stroke to the point where the shock will bottom out. This is how it was explained to me by the new fitters. I still have my concerns as to whether this is a long term fix as I think the shock is still not suited to the car.
Cheers. Tim.

Didn't mean to dislike this post my computer has a mind of its own.

[Timson]

No worries, I have done that same thing in the past.

[white lie]

I know this thread is mainly about VEs being fitted with XAs and failing, but I've had these fitted to my 04 monaro for 2 years now and haven't had an issue. When i first had them fitted i wasnt happy with the ride height so i took it back in to have them drop it as far as they could go, they actually ended up removing the bottom collar, allowing the collar that holds the spring to sit as low as it could go (2 years no issues). Judging from previous threads on the XAs and this thread it seems that anything pre VE no issues. Were the Pedders XA coilovers produced before the VE was released? and what was the difference between the Extreme XAs and the XAs? were the Extreme XAs a revised product trying to eleminate the failures when fitted to VE?

Mine is a VY. Rear springs collapsed in about a year from memory. I also know of a few other sets that have gone in a lot shorter time frame too.
I kept winding the height up every couple of months due to the spring sagging. Eventually got to the point where it was at maximum height but all the coils were binding and it was way too low for me to drive... this was a rare case apparently :rolleyes:

[calais190]

Read again buddy..

"Those "branded" springs would make any shock feel like shit!" King Springs and Pedders are SHIT, made from crap quality steel and components on the cheap. thats a fact.

Not once did I say Monroe was crap, and you cant "Directly compare" a Koni/Bilsteins setup on a VL to the VE which is what SS317 said his Koni setup was on....need I continue? please read the whole comment mate.


I read your post 4 times before I posted my comment mate. Albert Einstein would have had trouble working out what you were trying to say...

It's one thing to say something's crap because you used it and didn't like it - it's your opinion. But saying brands such as Pedders and King springs use "crap quality steel components" you must have a very credible source that has told you the grade of steel being used?

So tell us, has your credible source told you which suspension is made using quality parts? If so, what brand would that be?

[white lie]

There always used to be the rumour that all the cheaper, mainstream springs come from the same factory... but regardless, IMO they aren't as good as those that aren't so common (Lovells, Dobinson, H&R, Eibach etc). Kings and Pedders just seem easier to source for average Joe that doesn't want to go to a specialist suspension shop for some reason.

[brasher]

2 years with my XA's and no problems, some days I wish I never installed them due to the rubbish sydney roads, then others when I take it for a wrap through the national park and I love them...

From what I understand, they are based on the Buddyclub budget spec coilovers with a fat boy spec spring and suitable mounting bracket made up.

[kayman]

Just an update on my car after talking to the new installers. Turns out that when my suspension was originally fitted they fitted it with zero preload. As in when the car is up on the hoist and the suspension droops the spring is very loose. So loose to the point that the spring drops 20mm away from the top spring plate. So every time I go over a bump the spring unloads and allows the shocker to float and move around. When the weight of the car comes back down and the shocker compresses the shaft slides in on a slight angle and causes the seals to wear. After looking at the design of the shock if you adjust the ride height via the lower nut you cannot reduce the shock travel to the point where the shock bottoms out. You are changing the height by adjusting the sleeve connected to the lower ball joint. If you change the ride height by compressing the spring via the top nuts you will reduce the piston stroke to the point where the shock will bottom out. This is how it was explained to me by the new fitters. I still have my concerns as to whether this is a long term fix as I think the shock is still not suited to the car.
Cheers. Tim.

Does that mean you were driving it with 0 preload as well? I assume you are talking about the setting on the shock? Do you know the correct way to install them. I only ask because I have a set to put in my senator.

[Drizt]

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

[Timson]

Does that mean you were driving it with 0 preload as well? I assume you are talking about the setting on the shock? Do you know the correct way to install them. I only ask because I have a set to put in my senator.
When I say zero preload I didn't mean a number figure. There are two sets of rings or nuts on the rear assembly. The top ones set the preload of the spring, you need a certain amount of preload to hold the spring captive when the suspension is at full droop. I can find out what that setting is this afternoon. The bottom ring allows you to adjust the ride height and does not affect spring preload or shocker stroke. The news guys installing Pedders stuff in my area have told me that they have seen a lot of cars coming in where the customer has wound the top ring all the way up to lower the suspension. This causes spring bind and shortens the shock stroke to a point where they can fail. The dial adjustment on the shocks control the speed of the oil travelling through the shock. So when they are set to low the oil travels through fast, when they are set high the oil travels slower. That's my limited understanding of it anyway. I have mine set at halfway on the rear and full soft on the front for everyday driving.
Cheers, Tim.

[calais190]

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

I definitely wouldn't say it's a harsh ride at all. Yes it's firmer than stock, but for how low the car is, it's very comfortable. I have not been in a Spring and shock combo VE that is as low as mine and feels anywhere near as comfortable...

If you want stock comfort, don't lower your car.

[brasher]

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

Been in a Lexus IS-F with big $$$ KW coil overs and it drove like it was on a cloud. Same with my mates 200sx on Fortune Auto C/O's, so no it doesn't automatically mean it will rattle your fillings out. The dampening/rebound setting will ultimately dictate this. Plus what your definition of harsh ride is.

[Drizt]

I definitely wouldn't say it's a harsh ride at all. Yes it's firmer than stock, but for how low the car is, it's very comfortable. I have not been in a Spring and shock combo VE that is as low as mine and feels anywhere near as comfortable...

If you want stock comfort, don't lower your car.

I've had lowered cars and I love the look of them but they are very impractical and get tiring rather fast for various reasons (like having to pick and choose which drive ways are accessible, which roads are too bumpy etc.).

What I would like though would be a bit more control on hard cornering etc. I'm assuming coilovers are overkill if you dont want to overly lower the car ?

[amckiwi]

I resemble this
15,000 k's no problems
Stu
Yeah no worries.

Its fine to say the XA's are no good and so on but at the end of the day this dose nothing for the guys that have spent there cash and are stuck with them, I for one am happy with the the way my Ve performs with them and im only concerned with the failures guys are having.

[Xjas]

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?


The lower the car is, the stiffer the spring need to be as the suspension has less travel to absorb any given bump or pothole, it has to absord the same force over a shorter distance so needs a higher spring rate. A stiffer spring (higher rate) doesn't compress as easily so bumps in the road are more easily transfer to the chassis of the car, the higher the spring rate the harder it is for the shock to control the spring, a shocks job is to dissipate the energy that is absorbed by the spring, a higher spring rate means the shock has to do more work over a shorter distance, probably not a job for cheap shocks.
With coilovers the spring travel doesnt change with ride height, you simply move the spring seat up and down (or the bottom of the strut tube in the case of Pedders XAs) so the spring travel is the same regardless of height however because cheap coilovers are design to be adjustable in height they probably have a lot less travel than a lowered spring shock combo because the manufacturers of such coilovers takes into account that some people will set the car up as low as they can and the suspension needs to bottom out before the tyres contact the body or the body hits the ground. With expensive coilover the manufactures assume you are setting the car up for best handling rather than to be as close to the ground as possible so the design the setups differently. I have spoken to a well respected manufacturer of custom coilovers that primarily does rally and Targa type cars about a custom set up to replace what I have now, he said unless I have at least 60mm suspension travel at the front and 80mm at the rear as a minimum he is not interested.

[Drizt]

The lower the car is, the stiffer the spring need to be as the suspension has less travel to absorb any given bump or pothole, it has to absord the same force over a shorter distance so needs a higher spring rate. A stiffer spring (higher rate) doesn't compress as easily so bumps in the road are more easily transfer to the chassis of the car, the higher the spring rate the harder it is for the shock to control the spring, a shocks job is to dissipate the energy that is absorbed by the spring, a higher spring rate means the shock has to do more work over a shorter distance, probably not a job for cheap shocks.
With coilovers the spring travel doesnt change with ride height, you simply move the spring seat up and down (or the bottom of the strut tube in the case of Pedders XAs) so the spring travel is the same regardless of height however because cheap coilovers are design to be adjustable in height they probably have a lot less travel than a lowered spring shock combo because the manufacturers of such coilovers takes into account that some people will set the car up as low as they can and the suspension needs to bottom out before the tyres contact the body or the body hits the ground. With expensive coilover the manufactures assume you are setting the car up for best handling rather than to be as close to the ground as possible so the design the setups differently. I have spoken to a well respected manufacturer of custom coilovers that primarily does rally and Targa type cars about a custom set up to replace what I have now, he said unless I have at least 60mm suspension travel at the front and 80mm at the rear as a minimum he is not interested.

Thanks for that post :)

Out of curiosity how much suspension travel is normal, what do you have now and how much do you want? (Will you be getting those custom units?)

[Xjas]

Thanks for that post :)

Out of curiosity how much suspension travel is normal, what do you have now and how much do you want? (Will you be getting those custom units?)

Please dont confuse me with an expert, I am certainly not one, just relaying what I have learned or am learning on my journey to sort out my cars handling.

Bought my car with Pedders XA already fitted so I have no idea what is normal but I intend to measure the current travel over the weekend so I will let you know.
I am going to get some measurements so I can see if I can get the necessary travel with my current ride height but if I cant I will raise the car a little.
The guy doing the custom units seemed very knowledgable but he's in an industy where people come to him and tell him exactly what they want and he supplies them what they need. Unfortunately I dont have enough experiance in the area to be able to explain to him what exactly I needed so there was a bit of a language barrier of sorts between us so I dont know if I'll go that way yet. He was able to supply something within my budget though, I am going to spend a fair bit more money that the XAs are worth but my car has some track days in its future so I see some benifit in spending a little extra now.

[Wonky]

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

I think the answer to that depends on a couple of factors such as quality/price of the coilovers and how low you go because obviously there is less suspension travel the lower you go. A number of experienced people have commented on how compliant my H&R coilovers are compared to other cars with coilovers they've been in. Yes, it's firmer than stock but it's far from a bone rattling ride!

[Drizt]

Cheers, so H&R are the way to go then. Anything better than them again ?

[Wonky]

As with anything like this different people have different opinions depending on various factors so all I can say is I'm very happy with mine. If you want to arrange to meet me down at Chev's one Saturday arvo I or Chev can take you out for a ride. They don't have adjustable bump/rebound like the Pedders but to me that's actually an advantage because knowing me I'd otherwise be endlessly experimenting trying to find the "perfect" setting. They can be adjusted for a price by the distributors (Quadrant Suspensions in Berwick) who originally set them up for VE and Aussie conditions.

[Drizt]

Thanks again mate. I'll catch up with you at some stage for a beer :)

[brasher]

Cheers, so H&R are the way to go then. Anything better than them again ?

Best there is in the game. Have deep pockets, but for what you get...nothing comes close.

http://www.mcasuspension.com/

[steve_t]

Are the Racesport coilovers any cheaper? I believe they're a H&R product ;)

[Xjas]

Thought I'd update this thread. After trying to find replacements for my coilovers I've decided o repair the Pedders XAs I currently have while I do more research into something suitable to replace them. I am amazed at the lack of information available on springs and shock, several of the retailers I have approached were more than happy to supply me a product within my budget (up to $5000) but none seemed to be able to actually tell me anything useful in comparing their product to others, it seems like they expect me to buy a product based on the "its costs more so it must be better" theory. Even simple questions like what spring rate are they seem to be difficult to answer, I have had varying spring rates between 300 and 550lb/inch quoted which is a huge variation with no one really giving any indication of how that will affect the ride and handling of the car.

[Xjas]

Just got back from Pedders, rear shocks for XA coilovers are on backorder till the middle of Feb :vpo:, at least they loaned me a pair of springs/shocks for me to put in untill the new coilover shocks arrive, what a PITA.

[IJ.]

Just got back from Pedders, rear shocks for XA coilovers are on backorder till the middle of Feb :vpo:, at least they loaned me a pair of springs/shocks for me to put in untill the new coilover shocks arrive, what a PITA.

You're going to roll the dice on another set??

[steve_t]

Just got back from Pedders, rear shocks for XA coilovers are on backorder till the middle of Feb :vpo:, at least they loaned me a pair of springs/shocks for me to put in untill the new coilover shocks arrive, what a PITA.

I wonder if they recognised a problem (perhaps with the help of this thread) and sent all of the current stock back to the manufacturer for uprating... maybe just wishful thinking

[Xjas]

You're going to roll the dice on another set??

I figure I need to fix them if I'm going to sell them anyway, I cant decide on what I'm going to replace them with and I need the car driveable so I will get new shocks for the coilovers even if they are only in there for a few months. I think its looking more likely that I'll go back to a spring/shock combo, while I intend to track day the car it will be racing for fun not for sheep stations so it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend 5k on suspension that is crap to live with day to day just cause its better on the odd occasion I get to a track.

[Xjas]

I wonder if they recognised a problem (perhaps with the help of this thread) and sent all of the current stock back to the manufacturer for uprating... maybe just wishful thinking

The guy at Pedders said there is a newer rear shock which supposedly has a larger shaft but that may be the ones I already have, I will compare the new and old when my new ones turn up.

[Xjas]

A thread I noticed tonight reminded me I had not updated this one.
I have fitted the new supposedly updated shocks, I can confirm that they do have a larger shaft than the originals however of the two I removed from the car that had failed, one was the original smaller shaft but the other had the same larger shaft size as the new ones so I guess it was already an updated one but it still failed.
The car has only done town kms since fitting the shocks but I'm going down to Eden in it next weekend so that will test them out.
On the topic of replacing them with something better, I still cant make a decision on what to replace them with so for now they will stay as they are.

[Drizt]

Harrop are releasing KW street comfort coilovers soon, they are worth a look. The Bilstein coilovers are also worth a look.

[kosta2577]

damn i just bought some hope mine dont give me any issues

[VYCalaisLS1]

Thought i'd reply to this thread as I've been having issues with my XA Coil overs,
Had my OEM suspension replaced in my VY Calais after 200,000km after trying to roadworthy the car upon arrival in NT (Start of 2012)
(knew the rear shocks were leaking and pretty sure the suspension was ready to be changed, i spoke to Pedders up here IRT replacement with either Sports Ryder shocks & springs (had them in a VT - didn't really want to go with them again due to the harsh ride)
After deciding on the XA coilovers due to the ability to adjust height & comfort.

Approximately 2 months ago, all was great and very happy with the height & comfort until the front right strut decided that it started knocking whilst driving over any type of bump.
After getting it checked by Pedders, they reported that the front right strut had failed and required replacement under warranty (thank god)
Strut was replaced a week later (due to freight time) and a little peeved that my comfort setting wasn't dialed onto my new coil over and drove it on full hard setting for approx a week before discovering it myself.

As of a week ago, the front left strut has now started to knock exactly like the front right and an educated guess would say that this strut is also cactus and requires replacement (car going into the shop tomorrow for diagnosis & I hope they have the part in stock so it can be replaced straight away as i don't have the time to waste going backwards and forwards from Palmerston to Darwin City.

After reading through this thread and the issues associated with Pedders XA Coilovers, i'm tossing up on if i should call Pedders Managment and make a complaint in order to get a full refund for this suspension.
Thoughts Anyone?

Regards
Nick

[Ratsmow]

Nick I've read the same as you about these xa's and if I were you I would speak to management about a full refund. There's been to many failures, something's not right with them and at the end of the day you don't need the drama, holden don't spend millions and millions on r&d for no reason, sure there might be higher quality components out there but for the mainstream I think oem gear works pretty well for every day use.

[chargedvx6]

Wow, alot of repeat issues for Xas. Has anyone changed to or from other brands of coil overs to compare? If so what were they?

[Drizt]

Spewing Nick that yours has developed problems :( The ride quality in your car was excellent, it is what got me interested in coilovers for my car.

[Davothegreat]

Nick, Pedders gave me a refund for my coilovers after they were unable to set them up to ride how I wanted. Call up Pedders head office and speak to someone about product suitability. I had no issues with the people I dealt with from there.

Cheers,
Dave

[VYCalaisLS1]

Cheers Dave!,
Got the car back today, no more knocking from the front left strut - Was told it was possibly the Clevis nut not tightened properly - Strut Insert & Damper replaced anyway in order to eliminate any future issues.
Also expressed that I was unhappy about the 2 product failures to the manager at Darwin Pedders (he's a pretty good guy) - He informed me that all this warranty work was going on file and that if I had any further issues to call.
I may be possibly be moving down to Canberra so I'm a little worried about getting the car down there and having another failure (We wont be driving it from Darwin to Canberra at this stage - last thing i want is a shock / strut failure in the middle of Australia).
Will let you guys know how it goes!
Cheers for all your help
Regards
Nick

[Drizt]

Cheers Dave!,
Got the car back today, no more knocking from the front left strut - Was told it was possibly the Clevis nut not tightened properly - Strut Insert & Damper replaced anyway in order to eliminate any future issues.
Also expressed that I was unhappy about the 2 product failures to the manager at Darwin Pedders (he's a pretty good guy) - He informed me that all this warranty work was going on file and that if I had any further issues to call.
I may be possibly be moving down to Canberra so I'm a little worried about getting the car down there and having another failure (We wont be driving it from Darwin to Canberra at this stage - last thing i want is a shock / strut failure in the middle of Australia).
Will let you guys know how it goes!
Cheers for all your help
Regards
Nick

Nick, how are the coilovers going? No more issues?

[VYCalaisLS1]

Hey Guys, Well another update on this issue.
Driving to work this morning, noticed knocking in my rear left shock over small bumps on a normal road - knocking started to get slightly worse upon entering the barracks (road is paved with bricks in order to support heavy AFV so is a little rough)
Have called Pedders Darwin again to report the fault - Aaron (the service manager) knew who I was straight away and recalled without prompting that he had already replaced the front struts earlier this year.
Have it booked in next friday due to the amount of work he has on.
I expressed much displeasure about the repeated failures considering the amount of $$ spent on this product and that the vehicle doesn't see much hard work -
This vehicle doesn't tow, isn't heavily loaded, doesn't see the strip or track, no burnouts or silly stuff and isn't lower than legal height.
Considering this product is branded as a being "the pinnacle of performance suspension technology" - 3 strut failures in 12 months (under 10,000kms) without hard work is rubbish.
I want to call Pedders Head Office right now and have my whole suspension setup replaced or a full refund.
Advice anyone?
I'll keep you guys posted in regards to the fault as of next friday

Regards
Nick Z

[white lie]

As Davo said, he got a refund for his given his lack of satisfaction with the product. If mine were less than a year old, I'd be doing the same. Koni's for me when funds permit.

[Drizt]

The Pedders coilovers clearly aren't fit for purpose. I would be requesting a full refund.

They have had 3 chances, that is more than enough.

[VYCalaisLS1]

My next question will be what to replace them with thats around the same price - paid $1950 for the XA Kit

[Davothegreat]

You should be able to fit a set of Koni shocks all round for less than $1950, though that will depend on if you happened to keep your original Calais springs and struts from before as that would mean you won't have to buy donor struts to fit the front Koni inserts and who knows, even your springs might work well enough for you too. I've had to stuff around further to try and find the right springs on my car but your car being a Calais would have had a much softer OEM setup than my Clubsport. Either way, you should be able to avoid having to dip into your pocket any deeper to get a much better setup on your car.

[Drizt]

Knowing Nick he will probably want to stick with Coilovers to have complete control over the ride height. Just a guess ;)