Drive shafts - OEM or After market

[FrangaFry]

Hi folks, looking for some feedback on replacing my drive shafts.

Have had some nasty backlash/drive line clunking over the last few months and have been looking around for some advice on what is causing the noise.

I have been to 3 different places recently looking for advice.

First, I made a visit to a well know shop in knox, car was put up on a hoist and it was pointed out to me that my drive shafts (CV's) were 'well worn' (especially the left drive shaft) and that new shafts would be required to address the lash. A quote was provided for G-Force 1320 LV1 + inner stubs (as I am to believe that stubs are also required due to the non OEM nature of the shafts). Approx cost $1200 for the shafts and $850 for the stubs (labour on top).

Second, I did what I should have done in the first place and took it to Chev's. Chev gave me the impression that the 'lash' I was having was pretty standard for a VYSSII and made some changes to the way the A4 changed gears in econ mode and it settled it down a heap; Although the clunk is still there (but not as severe with the gear changes being softened in econ mode) and is still pretty pronounced when in power mode (clunk mostly coming down the gear changes rather than moving up). I have been driving around now for a couple of weeks like this and it is much better thanks to Chev but I still have concerns about the 'clunk'.

As a result of the above (and with Chev shutting down for a couple of weeks), I spoke to Ben from Trans Diff today and took my wagon down to him for a second opinion; Ben was adamant over the phone that he would be able to diagnose the issue straight away with a quick spin and look under the hoist. Ben immediately pointed out the shafts as the issue (and the after market nolathane bushes I have installed in the diff cradle and sub frame mounts); Comment from Ben was, "noise is 80% your shafts and 20% the bushes" (amplifying the sound through the car). I then spoke with Ben on 'what' parts to use (OEM or after market) and he was adamant that OEM are the way to go and if installed would sort out all the noises I was having.

The approx cost to replace with new OEM shafts was approx $1200 inc labour (Holden spares sell these retail for about $560 per shaft) and once again he was adamant that going down the Harrop after market path was going to cost more but provide the same results.

So, what are folks thoughts on OEM and after market shafts etc. I have read a number of threads where folks indicate going new OEM was a waste of money and seconds should be sourced (from a wreckers?) - Who has done this and what were your experiences? How and where did your source some seconds (in good nick) - is it worth it?

Also, just related to this, I also spoke with Ben on rebuilding the diff (with a Trutrac) and although the diff seems fine at this point, he did make a couple of comments:

1. If I rebuilt the diff and did not replace the shafts at the same time, then he would not provide warranty.

2. If I did not replace the shafts and left it as is, I would be doing damage to my diff in the long run.

Lastly, if and when I replace the shafts, I will also be removing the nolathane bushes and going back to OEM rubber, what are the down sides in doing this (will I notice a serious handling decrease - car is standard FE2 with Konis and sway bars all round, so it does handle well at the moment for a wagon).

Thanks and apologies to keep bombarding you folks with silly questions,

Cheers,

[feistl]

Step 1. Get a pair of second hand v6 ones from a wrecker for $100, fit yourself (easiest job in the world).

If it fixes your problem run with the second hand units, if they fail again over time then look at upgrading them. Buy the gforce1320 ones direct from the USA as its half the price.

Remember, if you upgrade the driveshafts your moving the weakest link to the tailshaft, which makes a mess when it lets go.

Dont buy genuine new, massive rip off.

[feistl]

Further to my post...

Driveshafts are about $900 landed, axle stubs are $800 landed.

Changing the driveshafts is 16 hex bolts, 10 minute job. Changing the inner stubs is probably 15 minutes work, little more involved but still very simple.

I would use the money you "save" to get a harrop sports diff cover.

[FrangaFry]

Thanks Feistl, what are your thoughts on re manufactured shafts? Such as:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-Commodore-VT-VX-VY-with-IRS-CV-Shaft-/330745094051?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d01f19fa3

Is it worth going down this path, or should I just head down to the local wreckers and see what is on offer? What is a good indication that the shafts are still in good nick.

Cheers,

[feistl]

Thanks Feistl, what are your thoughts on re manufactured shafts? Such as:


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-Commodore-VT-VX-VY-with-IRS-CV-Shaft-/330745094051?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d01f19fa3

Is it worth going down this path, or should I just head down to the local wreckers and see what is on offer? What is a good indication that the shafts are still in good nick.

Cheers,
a
Not sure on the re-manufactured ones... Are you drag racing? Unless your drag racing with slicks then the stock units are fine (even for hard use). Ive been using stock ones on a track car that was driven hard enough to boil mainlube diff and gearbox oil (EG F*CKING HARD) and the stock ones were ok.

Just twist the ends in opposite directions, if there is any "rotation" or movement, their stuffed.

[zorro]

Just keep buying them from the wreckers, take you about 30mins a side to do if you are on your back in the driveway.

I used to get them $50 a pair in Qld

[jca]

What sort of power r u pushing

[FrangaFry]

What sort of power r u pushing

310rwkw and 690nm (A4), will soon be pulling the trigger on at least a cam/high stall upgrade (to suite HTV1900) - but also have plans for a stroker at some point (depending on funds and comments from the minister of war and finance, this may be this year or next...). Just trying to work out if all my supporting bits and pieces will hold up (tranny, diff, axles, drive shaft, brakes etc)

Currently mods so far are: (VYII SS Wagon)

LS1 + HTV1900 + PAC springs + 60lb injectors/rails + in tank Walbro
Pacemaker Tri-Y headers (Stainless) + 2.5" full zorst (Stainless)
Rebuilt Diff + 3.45 gears
Built 4l60e + Cooler
HSV/PBR 330/315 brakes + Koni Adjustables + Whiteline Swaybars + Michelin PS3's (17")

I'm flip flopping all over the place at the moment, trying to work out where my hard earned will be put to best use.......... (already ruled out another brake upgrade, other than maybe stainless lines, as I don't track it) but everything else is still an option; I really need to become a car club member or something, as I have NO mates who are into car mods (or V8's for that matter), so I struggle to get allot of feedback from those who have been there and done that (hence all the silly NOOB questions I keep posting here....)

[SirNemesis]

All depends on how you drive. I've been making significantly more power and torque than that without issue on standard shafts. I also plan to continue using them, as they will basically be my driveline 'fuse'. Much better than a broken tailshaft, diff, output shaft, input shaft, etc.

[FrangaFry]

Well, given these comments (and those from Chev previously ..............), looks like after market axles/stubs are no longer on my bucket list (I do like the 'fuse' idea................), now all I need to do is get me some seconds and see what the results are ......... any recommendations for wreckers in the SE of Melb for some decent shafts (I assume any late model commy Vx-Vy V6 will do?); Do stubs also need to be replaced at the same time, or just the shafts (see, more silly questions.....?)

Cheers,

[JezzaB]

VZ HSV are actually better, they have more splines and thicker. Plus if you wanted to buy the Gforce Porsche CV upgrade kit later on it will work with these shafts.

[aratic]

Well, given these comments (and those from Chev previously ..............), looks like after market axles/stubs are no longer on my bucket list (I do like the 'fuse' idea................), now all I need to do is get me some seconds and see what the results are ......... any recommendations for wreckers in the SE of Melb for some decent shafts (I assume any late model commy Vx-Vy V6 will do?); Do stubs also need to be replaced at the same time, or just the shafts (see, more silly questions.....?)

Cheers,

You could get your current ones rebuilt. Will be more expensive than a 2nd hand set, but they will then be 'as new'

[FrangaFry]

You could get your current ones rebuilt. Will be more expensive than a 2nd hand set, but they will then be 'as new'

G'day, would this be the same as getting hold of a reconditioned set?

Cheers

[Woodchukka]

G'day, would this be the same as getting hold of a reconditioned set?

Cheers

Depends who has reconditioned them.

[duke5700]

Don't bother, get them from the wreckers out of a 6 cyl.

You either stick with the $50 2nd handies or you buy good ones.

You don't need to do inner stubs either if you just want to upgrade the shafts.

Like Jezz has said, VZ are stronger.

Thanks Feistl, what are your thoughts on re manufactured shafts? Such as:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Holden-Commodore-VT-VX-VY-with-IRS-CV-Shaft-/330745094051?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d01f19fa3

Is it worth going down this path, or should I just head down to the local wreckers and see what is on offer? What is a good indication that the shafts are still in good nick.

Cheers,

[FrangaFry]

Don't bother, get them from the wreckers out of a 6 cyl.

You either stick with the $50 2nd handies or you buy good ones.

You don't need to do inner stubs either if you just want to upgrade the shafts.

Like Jezz has said, VZ are stronger.

G'day fellas, are these the shafts you are referring to (HSV VZ?):

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/COMMODORE-HSV-VR-VS-VT-VX-VY-VZ-CV-JOINTS-DRIVE-SHAFTS-PERFORMANCE-25-STRONGER-/290804753053?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b550629d

Bit pricy (half the cost of genuine OEM's) but might be a good compromise as they come with a 12 month warranty and if they are the shafts you are referring to, could give me some longevity and an upgrade path?

Alternatively, what about these as seconds:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rear-Drive-shaft-CV-joint-fits-VR-VS-VT-VX-VY-VZ-WH-VU-HSV-and-SS-all-models-/251031847783?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a72aa0367

or these:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/drive-shaft-holden-commodore-vt-vx-vu-wh-vy-vz-wk-4blok-/200657273061?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eb81b00e5


Let me know your thoughts, as I would like to give this a go as soon as I can (the clunk is giving me the utter shites.....); Just so you know my head space for leaning towards new shafts is b/c I don't trust my ability to pick a good set of shafts at the wreckers over a dodgy set..... it sounds simple enough (just twist in opposite directions and any movement, no good?....... but, ............. I am a total noob, so don't trust my decision making at this point).....

If it was YOUR car, what would you choose (go on, make the decision for me..........)

Cheers,

[duke5700]

Well I spent big coin with Harrop and got from stub axles to outer hubs.. I went from continually destroying diffs to not having a problem.

Some people stick with the factory gear as it s a good fuse for the driveline and they are easy to change.

Some people spend a massive amount of money and hope for the best. I have a Carbon Fibre tailshaft etc etc I haven't driven on this combo yet but fingers crossed the last weak link is the T56.

The VZ ones are a good upgrade, still you can order the Gforce ones from the US for bugger all more money than those on eBay.

[JezzaB]

Ive got VZ Maloo shafts with the GForce CV upgrade (Porsche) and single piece Gforce 300M stubs in my drag car for 3 years. Ive yet to break the CVs even with 1.4x sixty foots

[aratic]

If it were me and my primary concern was trying to get rid of the clunking, then I'd probably just buy brand new shafts. If you get a 2nd hand pair from a wrecker, they are likely to be worn as well. Remember these cars are getting on in age and up in kms.

For the price I'd probably go with those items from auto wholesale australia, I have bought a few things from him now and he is great to deal with.

[feistl]

If it were me and my primary concern was trying to get rid of the clunking, then I'd probably just buy brand new shafts.

yeah but spending $1100 on new shafts is a LOT of money, when a second hand set can be had for less than $100. Plus the shafts dont normally wear out on "normally" driven V6 commodores. Its only the modified/lowered V8s that tend to chew them out.

Plus with the amount of shafts that wreckers pull out of cars (and the relatively low demand) they only keep the "good" ones in stock (average/bad ones get chucked). So you really have a good chance of solving the problem cheaply.

Plus we are not 100% sure that they are the problem. Would have for the OP to spend $1100+ and find it was something else...

They really are so easy to change, its worth giving a second hand set a go.

[Stewge]

yeah but spending $1100 on new shafts is a LOT of money, when a second hand set can be had for less than $100. Plus the shafts dont normally wear out on "normally" driven V6 commodores. Its only the modified/lowered V8s that tend to chew them out.

Plus with the amount of shafts that wreckers pull out of cars (and the relatively low demand) they only keep the "good" ones in stock (average/bad ones get chucked). So you really have a good chance of solving the problem cheaply.

Plus we are not 100% sure that they are the problem. Would have for the OP to spend $1100+ and find it was something else...

They really are so easy to change, its worth giving a second hand set a go.

Agreed here. I recently came up with the same issue with my shafts getting a bit "loose" (could get almost 30 degrees of turn on the wheel before the other end of the shaft followed suit :P). Replaced with second-hand shafts out of a v6 commodore (wreckers) and they're perfectly fine. As far as I know the shafts themselves are identical to oem ones and cheap enough to replace. I still have a little bit of clunking but searching for "elusive" clunks can get expensive and time consuming very quickly.

[tsimpfendorfer]

So, are you guys saying the vx v6 shafts are the same as Gen3 ones?

[BradSV8]

yep, i have used v6 ones and done low 1.5 sixty foots in a manual with slicks. When they do break however its not the cv's that break its the shaft.

[Red CV8 R]

Old thread but it had some interesting info. I was getting my diff serviced just recently and chatting to the guy about my car and he said that the factory CVs are the best but you can't get them anymore. He said to be very careful about aftermarket replacements. What do people here do for CVs? If mine start failing (common on lowered cars like mine, I'm told), can you rebuild them?

[Smitty]

Old thread but it had some interesting info. I was getting my diff serviced just recently and chatting to the guy about my car and he said that the factory CVs are the best but you can't get them anymore. He said to be very careful about aftermarket replacements. What do people here do for CVs? If mine start failing (common on lowered cars like mine, I'm told), can you rebuild them?


Rebuild CVs? that is an exercise that one one is better doing the brick wall head punch :shock:

CV on the tailshaft on the race car needed rebuilding (rather noisy and binding) I watched the
guy who was building shafts for Perkins Engineering do it on mine... over 2 hours with the right gear

At the end his advice was.. just buy a new one , in a kit and be done with it if you ever want it do again
(even using that requires a bit of work too)

[Red CV8 R]

Thanks, Smitty. I've never had to do CVs in a car before and hope I don't have to for this car either but need to be prepared. It's confusing as when I've researched and some say it's very easy to rebuild these particular CVs but most say they just replace them with factory CVs. However, that was when they were plentiful.

The only two kits that appear to get good reviews are the GForce Porsche Turbo CVs, to support massive power, which would be overkill for my car. About $3,500 supply for a pair, I'm told. There's then CVs from a place called Torque Line Garage. I'm not familiar with these guys. These CVs are for more normal use and power levels. $699 for the pair. Anyone have any experience with either of these kits?

https://torquelinegarage.com.au/tlg-super-duty-irs-driveshafts-suit-vt-vz-commodore-all-models-pair/

[whitels1ss]

I would not be too worried about spending big money unless you intend doing very quick sixty footers on a drag strip often.

I know a few people with modified, forced induction cars making a fair bit of power who do not have any problems with shafts.

I am more worried about shearing another main shaft in the transmission & destroying it again.

[Red CV8 R]

Yes, the GForce kit is certainly overkill for my car. They also go out of stock very quickly. The issue with my car being it's lowered stance, and what that does to driveshafts/ CVs. My thoughts were simply, get a hold of some factory spares, and since they would be used, get them rebuilt and, have them on hand.

With the comments about rebuilding these, I'm thinking not the way to go. Thus, I'm looking at that Torque Line Garage kit. Unless it fits in the rubbish category the diff builder mentioned.

I didn't make it clear, I've been collecting anything that is a common failure, and hard to get for my car. I've heard of others doing this too. If I could get a brand new factory set for a reasonable price, I certainly would do that! I can't even get new replacement door Strikers, parts availability sucks for our cars.