lowering of VE CALAIS

[calais ve]

Hi guys just after some info about lowering the ve
1 .how low to go and will it affect the ride
2 .whos the best at doing it in brisbane
3 .or should i not do it at all
4. and for thoes that have are you hapy with it

[CLUBRED]

Try Fulcrum Moorooka, found them to be best for advice and back up. I have used a tyre shop just to lower before but about all they could do is fit and align, pretty short on advice.

[Drizt]

I'll be interested in the answer to this one myself as I'll be getting coilovers soon :) - Calais V V8

I measured each rim centre to the guards last night (perpendicular to the ground) albeit on uneven ground and my distances were approx 385mm all round. My car looks ok at its stock height with 19" SuperSports so I don't think I'll go terribly much lower. Perhaps 375mm all round ??

[Paul K]

Some of the early VE Calais had FE2 suspension,
If so the ride height will be around 15 mm lower from stock
and the suspension is tighter, I believe that the springs
were progressive also.

[VNV8]

I'm in a similar boat with my SSV, although it has FE2 with the 19" it's still very high. Problem is I've gotten used to the height after my VT (scraping etc.). Will probably end up lowering a couple inches though just for the looks, and handling advantages.

[sjhugh]

SSSL, Supersports & stock shocks.

One of the roughest cars I’ve ever driven and I’ve owned a few low ones.


http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn249/sjhugh/100_1292a.jpg



.

[Drizt]

SSSL, Supersports & stock shocks.

One of the roughest cars I’ve ever driven and I’ve owned a few low ones.
.

That looks beautiful....

What is the distance from centre of the wheel to guard?

Why stock shocks with such low springs ?

[Wonky]

SSSL, Supersports & stock shocks.

One of the roughest cars I’ve ever driven and I’ve owned a few low ones.

Stock shocks with SSSLs would explain the roughness! :shock:

[sjhugh]

Back in 2007 when I brought the car new, there were no short shocks available.

By the time they hit the market I’d sold the car.
Ditto for not having any measurements, all I can say is the front and rears all tucked up under the guards.
It was a great look but a kidney cruncher and I’m use to hard rides.

As Wonky said, short shocks would have improved the ride greatly.


.

[kewgi]

Some of the early VE Calais had FE2 suspension,
If so the ride height will be around 15 mm lower from stock
and the suspension is tighter, I believe that the springs
were progressive also.

Any Calais with a Limited Slip Diff will have fe2. You cant (or couldnt in 2009) have the LSD without the fe2 in the package.

[Wonky]

Back in 2007 when I brought the car new, there were no short shocks available.

I had SSLs on my SSV sedan with stock shocks for about a year for the same reason back in 2007, though I didn't really find it harsh, more just dangerously uncontrolled on certain sequences of bumps. Got the Monroes as soon as they were available - big improvement!! :yup:

[Drizt]

Any Calais with a Limited Slip Diff will have fe2. You cant (or couldnt in 2009) have the LSD without the fe2 in the package.

Mine is single spinner with std suspension. The suspension is shot so that could explain why mine does not look like a boat.

[Paul K]

Any Calais with a Limited Slip Diff will have fe2. You cant (or couldnt in 2009) have the LSD without the fe2 in the package.

Is the converse true ? ie that all FE2 vehicles have LSD ?

[BEARWOOD]

Hi guys just after some info about lowering the ve
1 .how low to go and will it affect the ride
2 .whos the best at doing it in brisbane
3 .or should i not do it at all
4. and for thoes that have are you hapy with it

Altering the suspension will ofcourse change how it rides, what you do to it will change it for better or worse. For a Calais that sounds like your going to be driving a bit i would only drop it about 1-1.5 inches. If you have the money go coilovers so you can adjust ride height to what suits you as your needs will change over time. Go to a suspension specialist and explain exactly what you want, and remember that lowering it will more than likely stiffen it up a bit so keep that in mind.

[zacaxel1975]

Is the converse true ? ie that all FE2 vehicles have LSD ?

My 2010 Calais V Redline has FE3 I believe and it comes with LSD from stock.

[sjhugh]

I had SSLs on my SSV sedan with stock shocks for about a year for the same reason back in 2007, though I didn't really find it harsh, more just dangerously uncontrolled on certain sequences of bumps. Got the Monroes as soon as they were available - big improvement!! :yup:

Mine was a bit lower and hitting the bump stops with a crash bang effect.
I guess that’s the price of modding a new release car before the market properly supports it.
I would recommend everyone go for the short shocks when using springs to lower a VE.

Ain’t you running H&R coilovers now?
I would think they’d be a big improvement over the King springs.
As a street application they have a good name in the US with the Euro crowd.
How are they priced compared to a spring and shock change?

.

[Wonky]

Yeah, I love the H&Rs!! They're not at all harsh but given the big diameter springs on the rear in particular compared to say the Pedders they control things really well. Bearing in mind that my disabilities mean I never push the car hard I've never hit the bump stops with either the H&Rs or Kings/Monroes but with them and a full tank of petrol I used to sometimes have the rear guards scrape the tyres. Not once has that happened in the 18 months or so I've had the H&Rs! :goodjob:

I'm not sure on current RRP but I fluked getting out of mine very cheaply. Picked them up brand new on eBay from the distributor (as I later discovered) when as a relative newcomer to eBay he put a lowish start price (just under 1k) with a $1500 or so Buy It Now price (which was still a bargain). I think people were frightened off by the high start price with someone whose only few feedback scores were years earlier. I waited till only seconds to go and put a bid in of the starting price relying on Paypal and eBay buyer protection to cover me should it be a shifty deal. Gotta take the odd risk in life! :D

Turned out was all good and John at Protek really looked after me on fitting :goodjob: so by the time I sold my Monroes/Kings which were still in good nick the whole shebang cost me well under $1,000. :woohoo:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o274/gcovo/Misc/HRcoilovers3.jpg

[sjhugh]

Yeah, I love the H&Rs!!

Turned out was all good and John at Protek really looked after me on fitting :goodjob: so by the time I sold my Monroes/Kings which were still in good nick the whole shebang cost me well under $1,000. :woohoo:


That’s a fantastic setup for the price, I’m envious. :goodjob:


.

[AD07]

Any Calais with a Limited Slip Diff will have fe2. You cant (or couldnt in 2009) have the LSD without the fe2 in the package.

Not true....my 06 Calais has FE2 with a 2.92 single spinner.

[DevilMayCare]

I'm in a similar boat too at the moment.

I have a 2006 VE Calais V with FE2 and LSD. Just had it's 45,000km service and got slugged $500 by Holdens, but that's another issue :(

I had an annoying creaking noise coming from the rear shocks so asked them to check it out. They told me the shocks were fine considering the car only has 37,000kms, but the creaking noise was just something coming from the internal piston in the shock. I asked if there was a fix and they said the whole thing needed replacing and quoted me $520 to replace all the shocks. Sounded a bit rich so declined the offer as there was no actual damage or deterioration to worry about, but annoying all the same.

Trying to find a cheap set of FE2 shocks, but if I can't find some, I will rather spend the little extra and get some lowered aftermarket springs and shocks. Got a quote from a mob in SA for KYB shocks all round and SSL kings fully installed for $1,200. Not sure if that's a good price, but sounds reasonable, just don't know much about KYB and if they're any good?

I would like to know what everyone's thought's are on the brand to go for, ie. Koni, Bilstein, Monroe, H&R, Tein etc? I was leaning towards Koni FSD shocks and Eibach lowered springs, thoughts?

Sorry OP, not trying to highjack your thread but similar issue and didn't want to start a new thread unnecessarily as I'm a newbie to the forum, and thought my questions may help you anyway. FYI, what the pro's said to me about lowering. I asked if there was a setup that could lower my car slightly without roughing up the ride, and they said if I lower it, the ride will be similar to the stock FE2 anyway. They also suggested that I could get the guards just above the tyres by keeping the stock shocks and just adding kings SSL's all round.

Sorry for the long post guys but would appreciate all your thoughts as I'm new to the forum and a new Calais owner also. Cheers.

[BEARWOOD]

I'm in a similar boat too at the moment.

I have a 2006 VE Calais V with FE2 and LSD. Just had it's 45,000km service and got slugged $500 by Holdens, but that's another issue :(

I had an annoying creaking noise coming from the rear shocks so asked them to check it out. They told me the shocks were fine considering the car only has 37,000kms, but the creaking noise was just something coming from the internal piston in the shock. I asked if there was a fix and they said the whole thing needed replacing and quoted me $520 to replace all the shocks. Sounded a bit rich so declined the offer as there was no actual damage or deterioration to worry about, but annoying all the same.

Trying to find a cheap set of FE2 shocks, but if I can't find some, I will rather spend the little extra and get some lowered aftermarket springs and shocks. Got a quote from a mob in SA for KYB shocks all round and SSL kings fully installed for $1,200. Not sure if that's a good price, but sounds reasonable, just don't know much about KYB and if they're any good?

I would like to know what everyone's thought's are on the brand to go for, ie. Koni, Bilstein, Monroe, H&R, Tein etc? I was leaning towards Koni FSD shocks and Eibach lowered springs, thoughts?

Sorry OP, not trying to highjack your thread but similar issue and didn't want to start a new thread unnecessarily as I'm a newbie to the forum, and thought my questions may help you anyway. FYI, what the pro's said to me about lowering. I asked if there was a setup that could lower my car slightly without roughing up the ride, and they said if I lower it, the ride will be similar to the stock FE2 anyway. They also suggested that I could get the guards just above the tyres by keeping the stock shocks and just adding kings SSL's all round.

Sorry for the long post guys but would appreciate all your thoughts as I'm new to the forum and a new Calais owner also. Cheers.



Check your PM's.

[Wonky]

I had an annoying creaking noise coming from the rear shocks so asked them to check it out. They told me the shocks were fine considering the car only has 37,000kms, but the creaking noise was just something coming from the internal piston in the shock. I asked if there was a fix and they said the whole thing needed replacing and quoted me $520 to replace all the shocks. Sounded a bit rich so declined the offer as there was no actual damage or deterioration to worry about, but annoying all the same.

Trying to find a cheap set of FE2 shocks, but if I can't find some, I will rather spend the little extra and get some lowered aftermarket springs and shocks. Got a quote from a mob in SA for KYB shocks all round and SSL kings fully installed for $1,200. Not sure if that's a good price, but sounds reasonable, just don't know much about KYB and if they're any good?

I would like to know what everyone's thought's are on the brand to go for, ie. Koni, Bilstein, Monroe, H&R, Tein etc? I was leaning towards Koni FSD shocks and Eibach lowered springs, thoughts?

Sorry OP, not trying to highjack your thread but similar issue and didn't want to start a new thread unnecessarily as I'm a newbie to the forum, and thought my questions may help you anyway. FYI, what the pro's said to me about lowering. I asked if there was a setup that could lower my car slightly without roughing up the ride, and they said if I lower it, the ride will be similar to the stock FE2 anyway. They also suggested that I could get the guards just above the tyres by keeping the stock shocks and just adding kings SSL's all round.

Sorry for the long post guys but would appreciate all your thoughts as I'm new to the forum and a new Calais owner also. Cheers.

Actually, $520 for a dealer to replace all the shocks is amazingly cheap! There is at least 2 hrs labour involved, probably more, so at their high labour charges I'd suggest either they're only doing the rears or they're not using new FE2 shocks, possibly even both? :confused:

KYB have a reasonably good name, but of course it depends on which specific shocks they're using as to whether the price is good or not. Monroe short body shocks and King springs can be bought for just under $700 on eBay and add say 3 hrs labour inc. wheel alignment gets you to around $900-$1,000. I found King SSL (SSV sedan) and SSSL (SSV ute) fine with the Monroe shocks but due to my disabilities don't push hard through corners. Some who drive harder than me claim the combination is a bit soft when pushed and claim much better results with the HD springs from Kings. I had KYB shocks on my VZ SS with King SSLs and was happy with them, but again I don't drive hard so that may not mean much.

The Koni FSD shocks and Eibach lowered springs sound a great combination from all I've read and heard (no personal experience).

No way in hell I'd go SSL with standard shocks! Been there, done that for a year when no VE short body shocks were available and in some situations the lack of control can be downright dangerous! I'd also be very wary of taking any heed of whatever a "pro" said if they were prepared to tell you that! There is no difference in the labour involved in doing springs only or springs and shocks, so do it once and do it properly otherwise you'll most likely end up forking out another $200 - $300 in labour down the track to do shocks too.

[DevilMayCare]

Cheers Wonky, good advice.

Yeah, liking the Koni/Eibach combo more and more. Did make contact today with a well known mob on these forums. Asked their opinion on the Koni/Eibach combo and they said it was good, but gave me a cheaper alternative that sounds interesting. They recommended Boge shocks as being just as good as Koni's for performance and comfort balance, but at a cheaper price. They also recommended King Lows and stated that they are almost an identical spring to the Eibach's as they now use the steel supplier that Eibach use, and the Kings are almost half the price. They said the Low springs will give me roughly a 25-30mm drop from standard.

Not sure what to make of this due to my lack of experience, but from the research I've done, Eibach have always seemed to be regarded as much better then Kings, otherwise why such the big price difference? I've also never heard of Boge shocks so can't compare them to Koni's. Would they be adjustable like the FSD's? Anyone have them?

I'm not sure if the guy I contacted misinterpreted what I was saying, and assumed I was after the best budget option, however I'm simply after the best possible setup at a reasonable price. So if that means I can get a Koni/Eibach setup supplied and fitted for $1600-$1700, or a Boge/Kings setup for $1000-$1100, if the Koni/Eibach is that much better, then the extra coin doesn't bother me for the extra quality. Thoughts?

[Drizt]

Cheers Wonky, good advice.

Yeah, liking the Koni/Eibach combo more and more. Did make contact today with a well known mob on these forums. Asked their opinion on the Koni/Eibach combo and they said it was good, but gave me a cheaper alternative that sounds interesting. They recommended Boge shocks as being just as good as Koni's for performance and comfort balance, but at a cheaper price. They also recommended King Lows and stated that they are almost an identical spring to the Eibach's as they now use the steel supplier that Eibach use, and the Kings are almost half the price. They said the Low springs will give me roughly a 25-30mm drop from standard.

Not sure what to make of this due to my lack of experience, but from the research I've done, Eibach have always seemed to be regarded as much better then Kings, otherwise why such the big price difference? I've also never heard of Boge shocks so can't compare them to Koni's. Would they be adjustable like the FSD's? Anyone have them?

I'm not sure if the guy I contacted misinterpreted what I was saying, and assumed I was after the best budget option, however I'm simply after the best possible setup at a reasonable price. So if that means I can get a Koni/Eibach setup supplied and fitted for $1600-$1700, or a Boge/Kings setup for $1000-$1100, if the Koni/Eibach is that much better, then the extra coin doesn't bother me for the extra quality. Thoughts?

The H&R (Bilstein shocks) coilovers would be a better option in my opinion due to flexibility (set the ride height to what ever you want) and proven performance of the combination (one of the main draw cards of coilovers is the shocks and springs are perfectly selected to compliment each other).

[Wonky]

Cheers Wonky, good advice.

Yeah, liking the Koni/Eibach combo more and more. Did make contact today with a well known mob on these forums. Asked their opinion on the Koni/Eibach combo and they said it was good, but gave me a cheaper alternative that sounds interesting. They recommended Boge shocks as being just as good as Koni's for performance and comfort balance, but at a cheaper price. They also recommended King Lows and stated that they are almost an identical spring to the Eibach's as they now use the steel supplier that Eibach use, and the Kings are almost half the price. They said the Low springs will give me roughly a 25-30mm drop from standard.

Not sure what to make of this due to my lack of experience, but from the research I've done, Eibach have always seemed to be regarded as much better then Kings, otherwise why such the big price difference? I've also never heard of Boge shocks so can't compare them to Koni's. Would they be adjustable like the FSD's? Anyone have them?

I'm not sure if the guy I contacted misinterpreted what I was saying, and assumed I was after the best budget option, however I'm simply after the best possible setup at a reasonable price. So if that means I can get a Koni/Eibach setup supplied and fitted for $1600-$1700, or a Boge/Kings setup for $1000-$1100, if the Koni/Eibach is that much better, then the extra coin doesn't bother me for the extra quality. Thoughts?

These are only my impressions based on what I've read, so may be way off the mark, but it would seem Konis are regarded as about the best aftermarket shocks available without getting into stratospheric pricing. Boge seem to also be very well regarded and in fact I think they are a ZF company, ZF of course is a very highly regarded German company. Which Konis were you looking at as they're not all adjustable? FSD for example are not externally adjustable.

Given the labour involved in replacing springs I'd still be wary of going Kings over Eibachs, depending on price difference. A few years ago I had problems with the King SSLs on my SSV sedan ending up about 35mm lower than they were meant to be. The replacement ones I was sent under warranty were an improvement but still ended up about 20mm lower than they should be and I know of others who had the same problem. I know nothing about spring manufacturing but whilst the steel they used may have played a part I suspect the actual manufacturing process would have played a bigger part???? :confused:

From the experience of a few people I know who've gone the Eibach route, if you hunt around you can get some very competitive pricing on them.

[DevilMayCare]

Hey Wonky, or anyone else who might know.

I was curious to see how much a coilover set, or the Koni FSD/Eibach kit, would be from tirerack.com, but after chatting with them, they're not familiar with our Holdens, even though I tried to make the comparison with the Pontiac. They said it was hard for them to find the right product without a specific model code.

Can someone maybe help me out. Here's a link http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?make=Bilstein&model=PSS+Coil-Over+Kit&group=PSS+Coil-Over+Kit&cat=CoilOver

Using the left hand menu on the site, does anyone know which Bilstein Coilover, and H&R Coilover would be suitable for my Calais given I'm looking for that performance/comfort happy medium?

I know it will eventually come down to the part number which I can investigate, but given the number of options they have there for both brands, can anyone tell me which are suitable? i.e. PSS Coil-Over Kit or PSS9 Coil-Over Kit

Hope that makes sense.

[Wonky]

All I can tell you is the guy at Quadrant Suspension here in Berwick told me they did the development work for H&R Australia setting up the H&R coilovers like I have for the VE to suit it under Australian conditions. Given that I suspect anything you get from overseas eg for the Pontiac G8 may not really be 100% suitable.

[DevilMayCare]

Good to know, cheers.

[DevilMayCare]

All I can tell you is the guy at Quadrant Suspension here in Berwick told me they did the development work for H&R Australia setting up the H&R coilovers like I have for the VE to suit it under Australian conditions. Given that I suspect anything you get from overseas eg for the Pontiac G8 may not really be 100% suitable.

Hey Wonky,

Would the same go for the Eibach springs, or would the Pro Kit you can buy be universal world wide?

[Wonky]

I really have no idea so the following is pure guesswork and may be way wrong!!

My guess is it would depend on how likely it is that the springs are interchangeable with another make of car with similar weight and characteristics. Given Australia is such a tiny market in the worldwide scheme of things if there was such a car they may have taken the "close enough is good enough" approach and not bothered spending R&D money on something they may never recoup their money on. On the other hand a) it's probably unlikely there is a very similar car and b) given Eibach's reputation they probably wouldn't want to take that approach. I also have a feeling in the back of my mind that they played a part in the original MRC springs, in which case they'd be right on top of things!

I also think (another "guess") that the characteristics of the shocks would be a major factor in how well any combination worked.

[sjhugh]

Eibach springs is OEM on the C63AMG.
The Yanks complained they were too stiff and the ride was harsh, the Aussies thought the opposite in that they were what you’d expect for a performance car. Personally I thought they were a tad soft compared to what I’m used to.
Anyway they were revised for US market and a softer spring is now used on their cars.

The C63 is about 100kg lighter than a VE but given that AMG were quick to change to suit the market I would say various options are available.
Speak to Eibach’s Aussie distributor and ask them what they have available and they may be able to suggest a spring rate and shock to suit your needs.

http://www.eibach.com.au/

Personally I’d go for the H&R coilovers if the price is right.

.

[DevilMayCare]

After much deliberation I've decided to do nothing, lol!

Thanks to BEARWOOD, I've picked up his cheap stock FE2 springs and shocks and will replace mine at a minimal cost.

Reasons: I've decided to fork out $3,000 on a full custom exhaust and tune, so will put the suspension upgrade on the back burner until I save up a bit more cash. The exhaust and tune is a higher priority for me, so money better spent IMO.

Want to thank all of you for your advice, as it will still come in handy down the track when I'm ready.

Special thanks to BEARWOOD for contacting me regarding the FE2 setup.

[BanPC]

I am a bit late to this thread but I am glad to hear you did nothing - yet. If in future you feel the need to lower your car I have to tell you that in Brisbane it just does not work to go too low.

My VE was changed to King super lows and new shocks and the banging and crashing due to the crap roads EVERWHERE was one thing but also the bottoming out became just too much for me. I loved the look and feel of it low (and on a smooth road) but the reality of living with it day to day forced me into changing the height up at least 25mm.

I have had the skinny protector plate across the trans tunnel ripped off by speed bumps at Chermside shopping centre. I got hung up actually teetering on the up ramp at Valley china town car park and the front spoiler is just a mess from entering into shopping centre car park driveways that look innocent enough until bang grind scrape, all that while trying to swing and take everything at an angle to minimise the effect.

Like I said - Brisbane and low just does not mix.

[Drizt]

I am a bit late to this thread but I am glad to hear you did nothing - yet. If in future you feel the need to lower your car I have to tell you that in Brisbane it just does not work to go too low.

My VE was changed to King super lows and new shocks and the banging and crashing due to the crap roads EVERWHERE was one thing but also the bottoming out became just too much for me. I loved the look and feel of it low (and on a smooth road) but the reality of living with it day to day forced me into changing the height up at least 25mm.

I have had the skinny protector plate across the trans tunnel ripped off by speed bumps at Chermside shopping centre. I got hung up actually teetering on the up ramp at Valley china town car park and the front spoiler is just a mess from entering into shopping centre car park driveways that look innocent enough until bang grind scrape, all that while trying to swing and take everything at an angle to minimise the effect.

Like I said - Brisbane and low just does not mix.

How low was your car mate? mm from centre of rim to guard ?

[BanPC]

Never measured it sorry, I got the car with the guards rolled and on the super low kings etc already done. It looked great but I changed the super lows in the front to lows - lifted it 25mm (front spoiler to ground) and left the back as it was - I can now drive over previous obstacles and the front is not as harsh when hitting the pot holes.

[Drizt]

Thanks for the reply.

I had my old VR dumped and although it handled very well when driving like a maniac, it became very tiresome after a while. I got beached on a speed hump once in Torque, that was a pain in the arse. Later I put Kings SL's (I think that is what they were) in and it was a much better compromise.

So basically, my advice is don't lower the car too much as you will regret it.