Cost of owning a HSV

[QldKev]

My son has always wanted a HSV Clubsport. He is now at the age (coming of P's and finally allowed to drive a V8) where he is looking at finally buying one. He is looking at 2 year old ones to save the initial drop in value. But looking on car sales a 2010 varies from $37K to $55K. I know a lot of cars on car sales are overpriced, and I'm not sure how the >$40K are going to sell as there are also new 2012 runouts for $55K, or have I missed something here? He plans on getting it and keeping it for up to 10 years.

My 3 main questions are
What age is a good value for money on a HSV, is it worth paying the extra for new as they don't drop in value much.
What are servicing costs like. Including standard scheduled servicing, but also other bits that may/do go wrong.
Any other hidden costs, like insurance etc.

[HSVREDSLED]

I found no extras in servicing costs, however things like brake rotors are more expensive, but if you steer clear from a dealership, you should be fine.

I agree that buying second hand you let someone else take the hit on depreciation.

[VNV8]

I agree second hand would be the way to go, it may take time to find the right car (options, colour etc.) But will save money in the end. As far as servicing they are essentially the same as normal ss's apart from the brakes. I recommend gsl rallysport for the brakes, and any forum sponsor/ well known ls1 workshop for the servicing. It may seem like overkill but they really know what they're doing and imo end up saving on labour in the long term.

[GOT-307]

Definately buy used. The over $40k cars are going to be looked after a lot better, photo's make used cars look SO much better than they actually are especially when it comes to paint quality and condition, might also be comparing R8's with base spec?

As for servicing, I've done it myself and costs the same as my dads VE SS. And so far nothing has gone wrong, only thing I've had to replace is fluids and petrol over the last 2.5 years/25k k's

For insurance, definately shop around and it might be worth doing a search for insurance threads on these forums to see what good/bad experiences people have had.

[Smashfist]

Bugger all difference to service - we use a better grade oil in HSV's when we service them over base commodores, but apart from that the only difference is that tyres and brakes are expensive.

90% of the parts on them are commodore parts so they are generally easy/cheap to come by, the other 10% you hope doesn't break or need replacing as they are HSV specific, hard to find second hand, and expensive new.

[amckiwi]

Young fella just of P's insurance will be the killer.
Get some quotes before you go searching it may price an HSV out of the market.
Good luck
Stu

[GR346]

Insurance will be the killer for him I think. Definately shop round though, (for the car and insurence) they are still coming down in price

Service wise as said, the only thiing that really more expencive are the rotors. I havent noticed much of a difference after getting my R8 apart from the performance parts ;)

[bush_basha]

as above, I would be looking at insurance before anything as it could be a killer.

then the most expensive part that everyone over looks is the power bug, modding it adds up very quickly, lol

[XUV]

Buy one that's 2 yrs old as you'll get the saving and it'll still have a yerr of warranty = peace of mind.
better still, buy at an auction and you'll save another 2-3k, that'll pay for the insurance .

[Pickles]

as above, I would be looking at insurance before anything as it could be a killer.

then the most expensive part that everyone over looks is the power bug, modding it adds up very quickly, lol
That is a very good idea. You can also try insuring the car in your name, but with your son as a listed driver.
Buying an HSV is not much different to buying any car....ya just have to do your homework, to work out what you want, pricing etc.
I used to always try to buy private.....but not necessarily now.....because things have changed.....and dealers REALLY do not want S/H stock hanging around.......costs them a fortune.
Having said that, if you do buy from a Dealer, make sure it's a Holden/Hsv Dealer.....they usually won't sell rubbish. And don't take any notice of the listed price.....there are MASSIVE discounts around......it's a buyers' market.....and Dealers want to sell....so if ya see a car ya like......go in hard.
And it goes without saying, if the car hasn't got its books, full service history etc, then leave it alone......and check out those front seat bolsters......they can be expensive to fix if worn, but if the owner has respected his car, been careful getting in & out, they won't be.
Cheers, Pickles.

[bush_basha]

That is a very good idea. You can also try insuring the car in your name, but with your son as a listed driver.


normally it will work out to be a high price anyway with the son as the driver because he's still under there age brackets. however although it might be cheaper now doing it that way, when it comes time for his sons insurance on his own it might be more expensive as he hasn't had anything in his name??

[jono0309]

NRMA, anybody can drive as long as permission is given by the owner of the policy.
I am 21 and pay $1200 for a Evo 9.

[Micks]

My advice is keep in mind a majority of these second hand examples are probably had the bejesus flogged out of them especially so if the owner knows there selling!
I test drove an 03 5.7L that had very little rear rubber & less than ordinary feeling clutch! So buyer beware. Reckon I'd be paying more for either a newy or very low K
fine example!

[dnos]

My advice is keep in mind a majority of these second hand examples are probably had the bejesus flogged out of them especially so if the owner knows there selling!
I test drove an 03 5.7L that had very little rear rubber & less than ordinary feeling clutch! So buyer beware. Reckon I'd be paying more for either a newy or very low K
fine example!

I would tend to agree, especially if he/she plans to keep the ride for 10 years or more.

Also, make sure, especially with HSV's you take a good look at the vehicle and make sure everything is in order in terms of build plates, engine numbers, paint run etc etc

[redvxr8clubby]

I think the one thing you may have missed is the new 2012 Clubbys advertised at $55K are not R8's, checking Carsales for Queensland, new R8's are from $65K up. Personally if I had a $55K budget I would go new non R8. Especially as are you are looking at keeping it 10 years you obviously want to get best condition lowest KM's given your budget.

[Smashfist]

Young fella just of P's insurance will be the killer.
Get some quotes before you go searching it may price an HSV out of the market.
Good luck
Stu

Won't be because it's a HSV. Costs me less to insure my VY Clubsport than my SS of the same year cost - I think that people who own HSVs are less of a risk category than the guys who buy a cheap as chips SS to flog the bajeezus out of.

FWIW I'm 27 and it costs me $800/yr to insure for agreed of $18,500 including mods. Insured my first V8 at 22 for a little over $1k/year.

[Micks]

Won't be because it's a HSV. Costs me less to insure my VY Clubsport than my SS of the same year cost - I think that people who own HSVs are less of a risk category than the guys who buy a cheap as chips SS to flog the bajeezus out of.

FWIW I'm 27 and it costs me $800/yr to insure for agreed of $18,500 including mods. Insured my first V8 at 22 for a little over $1k/year.

In the Ops situation that won't be the case whether they buy an SS, SSV or HSV they will be whacked with higher premiums & bigger excesses!
Don't agree a HSV is less risk! possibly in the case of an older more xp driver perhaps.

[QldKev]

Thanks for the ideas so far. I'll definitely get him to check the insurance side out first. He's has been driving for 3 years (stupid 3 years of P plate rule we have) and has never had an accident or even a speeding fine. He likes the look of the HSV and I've owned V8's since he was born which he loves the sound of. Together the HSV is a natural progression. Honestly I don't think he will ever get into modding it, I doubt he would ever use the power of the V8 or even need to go to an R8. I do like the idea of him saving a few $ on buying it, but over the life of the car I'm starting to think maybe he should look at a new one.

[kevin101]

Thanks for the ideas so far. I'll definitely get him to check the insurance side out first. He's has been driving for 3 years (stupid 3 years of P plate rule we have) and has never had an accident or even a speeding fine. He likes the look of the HSV and I've owned V8's since he was born which he loves the sound of. Together the HSV is a natural progression. Honestly I don't think he will ever get into modding it, I doubt he would ever use the power of the V8 or even need to go to an R8. I do like the idea of him saving a few $ on buying it, but over the life of the car I'm starting to think maybe he should look at a new one.

Might be some cracker deals soon with the release of the VF.

[chillicatqld]

He likes the look of the HSV and I've owned V8's since he was born which he loves the sound of. Together the HSV is a natural progression. Honestly I don't think he will ever get into modding it, I doubt he would ever use the power of the V8 or even need to go to an R8.

hahaha - come on Kev - you really believe that?

[QldKev]

hahaha - come on Kev - you really believe that?

ok, besides the stereo, and and exhaust straight up. :lol:

[GOT-307]

ok, besides the stereo, and and exhaust straight up. :lol:

If you want to keep it that way keep him away from these forums otherwise before you know it he'll have a cammed and blown clubby haha :rofl:

[bush_basha]

doesn't need the forum to start with, he'll pull up at a set of lights and another one identical to him will pull up beside him, lumpy and angry as hell. the other guy will take off from the lights and he'll hear a blower whine or turbo spool.

then he will start searching google, and before you know it he's a member here and it'll start. hahaha

[planetdavo]

Plenty of good input so far. As said, servicing and replacement parts, bar the specific HSV items, is little if any more than the Holden versions. Some specific items can be replaced with generic aftermarket items to reduce the price. Not a good idea to go crunching things like wheels and bumpers into gutters and so forth though, unless you have a money tree in the backyard.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if insurance ends up roughly around 10% the cost of the car for just the first year at his age...for the one or two insurers prepared to take the risk of going anywhere near him.
Out of interest, what car is he coming from?
Not saying so in his case, but the number of people that have jumped from low powered front wheel drive 4 cyls on their P's straight into powerful rear wheel drive V8's...then bent them...is something that may need to be considered. These cars tend to expose drivers lack of experience...and a three year licenced driver is still quite inexperienced. If he likes HSV's, have no doubt, he WILL give it a bootful of throttle somewhere...

[whitels1ss]

doesn't need the forum to start with, he'll pull up at a set of lights and another one identical to him will pull up beside him, lumpy and angry as hell. the other guy will take off from the lights and he'll hear a blower whine or turbo spool.

then he will start searching google, and before you know it he's a member here and it'll start. hahaha

Yeah, we might soon be seeing......

New Member....."Son of QldKev"

Ride......"Blown H/C Clubby" :hide:

[QldKev]

Yep he is coming from a 4cyl fwd (corolla). And I can't remember the last time he went faster than 80km/h. Maybe I should let him take my old VX out for a while, and if he breaks it he can get me the HSV :bravo: He's pretty good with parking back from the kerb etc, as I've always had lowered cars and he's got the idea. He hasn't put a scratch on the corolla paint or rims since I gave it to him.

His new username will be "Faster than QldKev"

[zorro]

Only costs that I thought were ludicrous was insurance premium otherwise no different to a commodore

[JJW501]

Last time I was buying, the cost of a Maloo was not the deterent, but the insurance was. It came down to $1200 for an SS ute or $4500 for a Maloo.

At the time I was 29 and had a 5 year clean record.

Where you live plays a big part. I was paying $400 a year when I lived in the country, moved to Sydney and bam my premium jumped to $1200 with no tockets or accidents for the same vehicle.

I am interested in these quotes of $800 for a HSV.....who offers that?

My latest NRMA premium just came out and it has jumped to $1467, highest I have ever had. No accidents or tickets. Then they have the balls to write on the policy that they have given me a $2500 discount for my 65% NCB. I don't know what they have been smoking over there. Don't tell me QLD floods..........If they underquoted people in flood zones that is not my problem.

Just insured another bike last week......$323 bucks a year for full comp.

Anyway, my point is that insurance was about 75% responsible fo rme not buying a Maloo, OP should look into this carefully. Also need to consider the stock $800 tyres, cost of replacement rims if you hit a pothole, decreased brake component lifespan and cost of replacement parts etc. A friend of mine was left with a bad taste in his mouth after owning a GT-P for a couple of years, the ownership is undeniably more expensive.

JJW

[QldKev]

We just put his details into RACQ with our postcode etc.
For him without a NCB etc HSV Clubsport $1,800 per year, or a SS $2,200
Then I tried for myself with a 60% no claim bonus, Clubsport it's $1,100


It's the $800 tyres, rims, brakes etc are the things we are trying to find out about too.

Replacing a set of tyres at $3200 adds a lot to the yearly cost of ownership. How many k's would you expect from what ever tyre they run. But I guess you could always throw something like kumho ku31 or something like that on it.

[Pickles]

We just put his details into RACQ with our postcode etc.
For him without a NCB etc HSV Clubsport $1,800 per year, or a SS $2,200
Then I tried for myself with a 60% no claim bonus, Clubsport it's $1,100


It's the $800 tyres, rims, brakes etc are the things we are trying to find out about too.

Replacing a set of tyres at $3200 adds a lot to the yearly cost of ownership. How many k's would you expect from what ever tyre they run. But I guess you could always throw something like kumho ku31 or something like that on it.
No way would you pay $3200 for a set of tyres......there's ALWAYS deals around.
Cheers, Pickles.

[68LS1]

I have always have used the Bridgestone factory replacement, last time I replaced them, rear tyres, were around $650 each, last me around 35,000 - 40,000 kms, fronts were around $350.00 each, and have got over 70,000 kms from both sets. You can get cheaper tyres

Car now has nearly 180,000 kms, very reliable but as stated brakes are expensive. I got a full set of rotors on warranty (sticky calipers) and have had to do one another full replacement. Only other HSV specific item replaced was front struts around 10,000 kms ago.

[Wonky]

We just put his details into RACQ with our postcode etc.
For him without a NCB etc HSV Clubsport $1,800 per year, or a SS $2,200
Then I tried for myself with a 60% no claim bonus, Clubsport it's $1,100


It's the $800 tyres, rims, brakes etc are the things we are trying to find out about too.

Replacing a set of tyres at $3200 adds a lot to the yearly cost of ownership. How many k's would you expect from what ever tyre they run. But I guess you could always throw something like kumho ku31 or something like that on it.

Interesting on the insurance! As you said, if you go Kumho KU31 or similar, which are quite a decent tyre, a bit of shopping around will get you out of it for $1000-$1250 for all four corners probably. I just had two 275/30/20 (same as the GTS runs) fitted and balanced for just under $500 the pair, though I do know I got a bloody good price! :yup: My last rears lasted close to 30,000km, the fronts over 50,000km, so can't complain!

In my experience the biggest problem with HSVs is the cost of HSV specific parts. Since I fluked getting the W427 front bar I've chased up various HSV bits and pieces and where there is a Commodore equivalent eg Calais vs HSV E1 bonnet mould, front spoiler undertray SSV vs HSV, front guards standard Commodore vs HSV etc the HSV parts are typically four or more times the price of the near identical Commodore part. :shock: However, given he shouldn't need to be buying that stuff on a car under warranty it shouldn't matter at the moment.

[JJW501]

Interesting on the insurance! As you said, if you go Kumho KU31 or similar, which are quite a decent tyre, a bit of shopping around will get you out of it for $1000-$1250 for all four corners probably. I just had two 275/30/20 (same as the GTS runs) fitted and balanced for just under $500 the pair, though I do know I got a bloody good price! :yup: My last rears lasted close to 30,000km, the fronts over 50,000km, so can't complain!

In my experience the biggest problem with HSVs is the cost of HSV specific parts. Since I fluked getting the W427 front bar I've chased up various HSV bits and pieces and where there is a Commodore equivalent eg Calais vs HSV E1 bonnet mould, front spoiler undertray SSV vs HSV, front guards standard Commodore vs HSV etc the HSV parts are typically four or more times the price of the near identical Commodore part. :shock: However, given he shouldn't need to be buying that stuff on a car under warranty it shouldn't matter at the moment.

I run the Kumhos on my SS, the bridgestones are expensive across the board.

The high cost of panels you mention above make it more likely to be forced into an insurance claim. If you clip a pole in a carpark with an SS, you can justify paying for your own panel and painting rather than making a claim. If you do the same in a HSV, the cost may be a lot higher, forcing you to make a claim, and then you have to carry the claim for 5 years and pay higher premiums.

I would love a Maloo but it's not really practical for me at the moment. Good luck to the young fella, if he can justify the upfront $ and potential future expenses he will have a very nice car by the sounds of things!

Those insurance quotes sound very reasonable, make sure you get a quote number and buy while it is still a valid quote!

JJW

[macca_779]

I'd put Kumhos on a trailer. That's about it. Really depends on what you expect from a tyre. I've got RE002's now. Never again as they're junk in the wet but some consider them a great tyre. Going back to Dunlop Sport MAXX

[Speedy Gonzales]

If its 10 years, I would buy brand new, make sure you have the money to pay, what I would do is have cheque with a 40s figure ready to go, tell them you will buy right here right now for that particular car today, if they dont, walk, go somewhere else. Anyone who isnt willing to take money in a sellers market is mad and obviously hoping to get big dollars in a depressed market, isnt going to happen.

The insurance price reflects what insurers are willing to risk, they are not willing to risk a car like that to anyone under 30, it is what it is and its dependent on location. A quote for a brand new 2013 R8 lands me around $800 full comp and its insured for more than what the car is worth, dont ask me how that works out.

Parts and tyres, buy from overseas, you can buy from the Emirates, UK, or North America

[Plenty]

I'd put Kumhos on a trailer. That's about it. Really depends on what you expect from a tyre. I've got RE002's now. Never again as they're junk in the wet but some consider them a great tyre. Going back to Dunlop Sport MAXX

lol don't worry about the RE002 Adrenalins they are shit, go the S001's they are a fantastic tyre although typical of most premium tyres, very expensive. If you can really stump up the cash Michelin Pilot Supersports are probably the best tyre going, in fact i reckon they are better then the last model Pilot Sport Cups.

[macca_779]

lol don't worry about the RE002 Adrenalins they are shit, go the S001's they are a fantastic tyre although typical of most premium tyres, very expensive. If you can really stump up the cash Michelin Pilot Supersports are probably the best tyre going, in fact i reckon they are better then the last model Pilot Sport Cups.

I'm actually considering going with something like a Dunlop D01J. I don't do daily km's anymore so I figure why not go something I can drive and race on. Not buying bridegestones again. The adrenalins have turned me off the brand. Premium dunlops have always served me well all the way back to my first set of Formula FM 901's

[bush_basha]

Parts and tyres, buy from overseas, you can buy from the Emirates, UK, or North America

isn't HSV specific to Aus only? Tyres I understand but HSV parts can only be had here?

[macca_779]

lol don't worry about the RE002 Adrenalins they are shit, go the S001's they are a fantastic tyre although typical of most premium tyres, very expensive. If you can really stump up the cash Michelin Pilot Supersports are probably the best tyre going, in fact i reckon they are better then the last model Pilot Sport Cups.

Just read a comparo on the S001's. Junk in the wet much like the adrenalins and typical of Bridgestone. Good in the dry though.

Might see what those Goodyears go for. Done well in tyre comparo's (won motor one last year)

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-European-Summer-Sports-Tyre-Test.htm

[gassit320]

only had my E3 clubby for 3 months but here's my 2 cents :

Service costs, no fixed costs on 2011 clubby, recently quoted 380$ for the 30k service, I'm pretty sure commodore is around 200.

Insurance, absolute cheapest was AAMI , insured value 55k , $900 per annum , I'm an old fart (49) with top NCB and bonuses. As previously stated, where car is garaged, age of driver and insured value will make a big difference to the premium .

Paid 51k for mine, 20,000 km, auto, 20" rims , leather, paint protection , best i could do new was 57k for a manual no leather, and yes there is a difference between base model, GXP and R8.

Tyres , well if you want to see the car wrapped around a tree, put cheap tyres on it, I had cheap Chinese tyres on my GTO when i bought it and they were nothing short of dangerous.

Make no bones about it, owning a HSV and not cutting corners will cost more than an SS, even the fuel consumption is worse.

But boy, is it worth it :goodjob:

[Plenty]

Just read a comparo on the S001's. Junk in the wet much like the adrenalins and typical of Bridgestone. Good in the dry though.

Might see what those Goodyears go for. Done well in tyre comparo's (won motor one last year)

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-European-Summer-Sports-Tyre-Test.htm

Ahh the F1's, go the asymmetric 2 pattern and you won't be disappointed a real good bit of rubber.


Sorry to go off topic BTW.

[Stewge]

As someone who was in relatively the same boat all I can say is, it's all worth it.

I went from driving a VN bombadore (geez that made me appreciate a good car) through uni into a VZ clubby a month before my 22nd birthday on (mostly) my own money (and some help from the bank).

The price of insurance hurt. Not only was I 21 at the time, it was my first car insured in my name (VN was under my dad's name with me as a driver). It was around the $1500 mark with a 650+450 excess. I could've tried to put it under my dad's name and did the same thing to save some money, but the problem is, at some point you have to build your own insurance history and rating. I just took it on the chin and now at 24, I'm rating 1 and pay only a hair over $1K for full comp (RACV). Next year I'll lose the stupid under-25 excess tax, not that I've ever had an accident anyway.

As for general cost, as a comparison to my housemate who settled for a VY SS instead, it's definitely more expensive but it won't send you broke. I always use BP98 or Shell Optimax, he doesn't. Mine is cammed so it drinks...a lot...I wash my car more often (gotta keep the HSV shiny, especially when it's black...lol), he doesn't. As mentioned, most things like tyres, brakes and oil cost more, but technically not because it's a HSV, because they're just higher spec. You can stick stock commodore brakes on and crappy tyres if you want and it'll be just as cheap....but it'd be stupid.

Have you considered something earlier than the E series? While they may be "old", for that kind of money you could get into a VZ with plenty to spare (on mods that is..:evil:). Or even something like a GTO. At the least, it's probably worth waiting to see what happens with the VF HSVs as it'll cause a price drop across the E series.

TL;DR, Got a HSV at 22, drive the clubby everywhere daily and love every minute of it. While it bears some scars of being a daily, buggered if I'll plod around town in a batshit boring fartbox despite the added cost.

[Wonky]

Tyres , well if you want to see the car wrapped around a tree, put cheap tyres on it, I had cheap Chinese tyres on my GTO when i bought it and they were nothing short of dangerous.

Don't want to get too far OT and don't know if you're referring to the Kumho KU31s as cheap and dangerous, but most people who've used them say they have the same grip as much more expensive OE tyres, wet and dry. In fact I'm sure I read someone on here fairly recently say they were even better in the wet than OE! Tyres are like car brands, footy teams etc and you can always find someone who hates whatever brand you care to name for their own particular reasons, but they're far above Linglongs and similar crap.

[Drasius]

Likewise don't want to go too far OT, but I have to say, going to the KU31's (@ ~$210ish each) from the Pirelli PZero Rosso (@ ~$600 each for 235/45/18's), yes, dry grip is definately less, but not that much less (probably comparable to the Bridgestone RE40's) and wet grip is increased by over 100% easily, not to mention about an 80% reduction in tyre roar, massively increased life and at significantly less cost. For people who aren't racing or pushing to the absolute limit, I'm not sure a better compromise tyre exists at the moment.

[Hos]

I just compared my insurance costs, on my 2010 SSV wagon to a 2013 Clubsport R8, difference was less than $100. Old wagon for <$800, new clubby for <$900.

[gassit320]

No guys, not talking about Kuhmo, that's probably what I'll run when OEM's wear out.

Insurance is a moot point as it will depend on location, is vehicle garaged etc. Either way, it's not going to be cheap with a driver in his early 20s on the policy, especially as he will have to be listed as a regular driver.

[planetdavo]

Yep he is coming from a 4cyl fwd (corolla). And I can't remember the last time he went faster than 80km/h. Maybe I should let him take my old VX out for a while, and if he breaks it he can get me the HSV :bravo: He's pretty good with parking back from the kerb etc, as I've always had lowered cars and he's got the idea. He hasn't put a scratch on the corolla paint or rims since I gave it to him.

His new username will be "Faster than QldKev"

I suspected something like this might be the case.
I came from a similar situation to your son. Most people who know me considered me a fairly responsible driver in my early 20's. I had a front wheel drive car at the time.
In the 90's, before the age of 25, I bought a brand new SS. Worked hard, saved a fair bit, borrowed a bit. Bought my dream car.
Within two months, I managed somehow to do a combination tankslapper and 180 degree spin existing a slip lane onto a highway, having just a little stab at the throttle. Somehow it managed to stay away from anything. I knew no cars were nearby. I had a mate in the car at the time.
I realised that, although I had been driving for a few years, my level of experience in powerful rear wheel drive V8's was sorely lacking, and just how huge a jump it was from the car I came from. The performance, the sound of the V8, the "street cred" it got on a daily basis. The outcome could have easily been either more expensive...or more painful.

This thread seems to have gone down the path of the tyres being a massive issue.
Whilst you ALWAYS want the best tyres you can afford on a car, you can have the best possible tyres and still lose it in a big way. It's perhaps just more likely you'll be travelling even faster by then...

[VYSHSV8]

I'm quite comfortable controlling a bit of wheelspin. No ego. Just a bit of life experience I guess

Yep agree with ya there Macca also track days, racing cars in road reg classes etc help and most of all knowing your limits.
That's the beauty of track days and skid pan days you can find your limits

[JJW501]

Yep agree with ya there Macca also track days, racing cars in road reg classes etc help and most of all knowing your limits.
That's the beauty of track days and skid pan days you can find your limits


Nonsense! Nothing is more dangerous than arrogance.

At track days it is easier to control a slide coz you hammer the same corners again and again, knowing where the slippery points and grippier points of the track are. Also, you are concentrating hard and ready for action.

It's very different to when you have a moment on the road. Usually, you are not expecting it, maybe chatting to a mate or playing with your stereo and then bang, you are in a tank slapper with not a whole lot of room to play with, unlike a race track where you do have room! But only a fool would think he can drive like that on the road in unknown conditions where vehicles leak oil etc.

I had a moment years ago in my VY, hit a sheet of water, aquaplaned, then hit dry concrete and was in a tank slapper way wider than the highway, I ended up hitting the armco. This was mid way through a 5 hour drive. Could I have saved that on a track? Yes. Was I ready right there and then? No. Was I speeding? No. It was just a freak thing, 1000 other cars passed that same stretch of road that day with no worries. It has not happened to me since. Would ESP have helped? I think it may have. I am not arrogant enough to think that I can out wit a computer in the blink of an eye. Do I turn ESP off and drift at the top of 3rd gear on a track? Yes. Time and a place.

Thinking that you are invincible on the road coz you did some sick drifts at the track is a false economy. There is a whole smash repair business banking on false confidence. That is a good business strategy.

The OP mentioned that he thought his son would not use the power. This is also silly. Of course he will. For his own sake get him into some driving events so that he can learn how to handle the car and 'have a go' safely. I am sure he doesn't want a V8 to drive slowly. I don't.

JJW

[matthewfnorbert]

v8 supercar drivers still lock up, over and understeer when clearly they dont want to at all and i am sure they are better drivers than all of us

[empower]

I've owned an older HSV for 3 1/2 years now (VXII) and it's cost no more than my VTII Exec except for the obviousl - servicing is a little higher, rego is higher (in QLD V8 is more than 6 or 4) and fuel is pretty much the same.

I'd echo a lot of what has been said above and add that I think a day on a skidpan with some advanced driver training will be worth it's weight in gold.

[Plenty]

v8 supercar drivers still lock up, over and understeer when clearly they dont want to at all and i am sure they are better drivers than all of us

True but the big difference between us and them is they are always at the limit of traction, stability etc, the tiniest of errors will result in a lock up, whether front or rear depending on brake bias, understeer/oversteer etc depending on roll center +/-.

[C4B]

Nothing is more dangerous than arrogance.

Well almost.........

1973

[gassit320]

Sorry, your HSV uses same fuel as an exec ? I'm no expert on the VT but either the exec had an LS1 in it, or the V6 was that far out of tune it wasn'tfunny, or mmaybe you just drove it aroundin first?
Either way I think the thread was " cost of running a HSV", and not driving in heavy traffic or with a heavy foot (mostly) I get 14l/100 versus 13 for an SS, also with no AFM, the Clubby struggles to get much below 12 on a trip. Compare this to the 7-8l/100 he's used to and it's fair to say the young bloke will notice the extra 35-40$ a week in fuel, but maybe compared to an SS only an extra 6-8$ a week.
The point is whilst the Clubby may only be an extra 5-10$ extra here or there, when you add it all up it could easily amount to $50 a week, which may be the stuff that drops behind the couch for some, but I'd certainly notice it.

[bozodos]

Don't want to get too far OT and don't know if you're referring to the Kumho KU31s as cheap and dangerous, but most people who've used them say they have the same grip as much more expensive OE tyres, wet and dry. In fact I'm sure I read someone on here fairly recently say they were even better in the wet than OE! Tyres are like car brands, footy teams etc and you can always find someone who hates whatever brand you care to name for their own particular reasons, but they're far above Linglongs and similar crap.

I put a set of Linglongs on mine (out of necessity at the time) and they've been a lot better tyre than the Yokohama Advans it had previously IMO. Decent grip wet and dry (for a tyre that costs $112 fitted anyway). The downside being that they are nearly worn out after 25000km. I'm still tossing up over Kumho, Bridgestone, Dunlop or Goodyear for replacements though, probably leaning towards Dunlop or Goodyear.

The worst I've used was Maxxis MA-V1's on my old R32, shocking grip but hard as hell - still had plenty of tread left after 30000km in a car with a fair amount of camber.

[bush_basha]

Either way I think the thread was " cost of running a HSV",

I took this thread as cost of owning a HSV, meaning the little extra price increase of the name Hsv on certain items. Tyres, brakes, rims, bars, gauges etc etc.
all cars are going to be different in fuel economy, people drive different, cars are tuned differently etc etc. but I don't own a V8 to worry about fuel prices, lol.

[VYSHSV8]

Nonsense! Nothing is more dangerous than arrogance.

At track days it is easier to control a slide coz you hammer the same corners again and again, knowing where the slippery points and grippier points of the track are. Also, you are concentrating hard and ready for action.

It's very different to when you have a moment on the road. Usually, you are not expecting it, maybe chatting to a mate or playing with your stereo and then bang, you are in a tank slapper with not a whole lot of room to play with, unlike a race track where you do have room! But only a fool would think he can drive like that on the road in unknown conditions where vehicles leak oil etc.

I had a moment years ago in my VY, hit a sheet of water, aquaplaned, then hit dry concrete and was in a tank slapper way wider than the highway, I ended up hitting the armco. This was mid way through a 5 hour drive. Could I have saved that on a track? Yes. Was I ready right there and then? No. Was I speeding? No. It was just a freak thing, 1000 other cars passed that same stretch of road that day with no worries. It has not happened to me since. Would ESP have helped? I think it may have. I am not arrogant enough to think that I can out wit a computer in the blink of an eye. Do I turn ESP off and drift at the top of 3rd gear on a track? Yes. Time and a place.

Thinking that you are invincible on the road coz you did some sick drifts at the track is a false economy. There is a whole smash repair business banking on false confidence. That is a good business strategy.

The OP mentioned that he thought his son would not use the power. This is also silly. Of course he will. For his own sake get him into some driving events so that he can learn how to handle the car and 'have a go' safely. I am sure he doesn't want a V8 to drive slowly. I don't.

JJW

I think you have taken it out of context mate, I am not being arrogant or anything like that, I know what I can do etc and no I don't take it on the road that is what track days are for.
As in your last paragraph that is what I was meaning ie driving events you can learn how to handle a car ie drifts, slides, heavy braking in different circumstances oh also the best place to learn is on gravel....

[QldKev]

Lots of good feedback and things to get us thinking about the total cost of owning the HSV, from buying to maintenance and daily running. The kumho ku31 are what I also run on my VX and I'm pretty happy with them and when they wear out I will be staying with them. Also I'm running a mafless LS1 on 98, so he is prepared for the fuel side of things. We only have one Holden dealer in town, so when it comes time to lay the money on the table it will be them Vs Brisbane.

What are the main differences between the GXP and R8?

[zorro]

I've done the whole $600 per tire thing and got jack shit of getting bugger all klms out of them. Yeah it's nice to have them but really if you drive to the conditions then you aren't requiring your tires to save you from someone else's stupidity or your own.

In saying that there are some VERY bad china tires out there, Ling Longs/Full Run/Wanli to name a couple. I have used Achillies for a while now and what appear to be knock off Falkens they perform pretty well for daily hacking and actually have enough stiffness in the sidewalks to be pushed a bit.

I've done a bit of racing in younger years and aside from little technique advantages I'm probably no better driver than most on the roads. All street driving is these days is being alert and defensive, I get clean run in mornings and afternoons is trying to make sure the dickhead who wants the small gap you have between you and the car infront doesn't take out your front quarters trying to achieve the impossible.....

[VYSHSV8]

Yeh Ash those Achilles are a pretty good tyre I am running them as well, and have done all the other brands... Also those achilles are good for running 10's :)

[zorro]

Yeh Ash those Achilles are a pretty good tyre I am running them as well, and have done all the other brands... Also those achilles are good for running 10's :)

Yup, they have been a big talking point on other forums that probably treat tires like they are designed not just to parade the biggest credit card receipt around after the 3rd set for the year.......

[gassit320]

Kev, the main difference between R8 and GXP is lower spec brakes and suspension and no launch control on the manual. The big thing for me ( I considered a GXP ) was that from the back it looks pretty much the same as a commodore or SS, the rear end of the R8 has polarised opinions, you seem to either love it or hate it, I love it .
I think the GXP was a limited run so not available new ? I also think they were only as late as 2010.

Just on the chinese tyres thing: I lived and worked in China for 4 years, they are very good at copying stuff looks wise but not real flash on the quality. There is a massive difference between a brand name made in china and a no name. You may well get good grip and wear but do you really know what will happen if you hit a pothole or similar ? Do you know how strong the construction/sidewall of the tyre is ? Rhetorical question because the answer is no. I'm not saying everything made in China is crap but you are always taking a risk, if you're wife and kids are in the car ask yourself if that $6-800 saving every couple of years is really worth it ? lecture over.

As a side note, a while ago I looked at buying some GTS rims for my GTO, on ebay there seemed to be some really cheap ones, even had HSV marking on them, turns out they were Chinese copies, did some googling and the results border on horrifying, that is to say the way they let go when they hit a pothole or something was scary. One saying I have found is almost foolproof for me " you get what you pay for " there are very few exceptions to this rule.

[Big_Valven]

My 2003 VY LS1 costs LESS to insure than a 2.3 litre 4 banger Mazda 6, and has twice the power, and about identical resale value (bugger all.)

The consumer has to be smart enough to get the right deal as I could have been paying four times more with other insurers for the same cover.

[QldKev]

Thanks for all the replies, info and ideas. After looking at a few, my son has decided to keep his current car and wait a couple of years before joining the HSV drivers team.

[kosta2577]

definately buy used could save as much as 20k just make sure it hasnt been flogged out