Things To Look Out For On Used Territory or Merc ML?

[Wonky]

We are going to soon sell on our old petrol/gas 91 Ti Patrol with 350,000+km on it which we've had from new due to not being able to justify the cost of having it sitting there for very occasional towcar use, which is all it's now been downgraded to. My daughter's partner (landscaper) has also been just given a work vehicle (2WD Hilux cab/tray) so she's now looking at selling her much loved VY2 SS which she's had for over 4 years and getting either a Territory or ML Merc for occasional towing with her horse and general commuting to and from work etc..

She doesn't want a full sized 4x4 like a Landruiser or Patrol and in fact doesn't necessarily want a 4WD, but does need something with a decent towing capacity as our horse float is a big triple angle load and even though she may never need to tow 3 horses she wants something with minimum 2300kg towing capacity. If they go for a Merc, which she likes driving and the inside of, she's prepared to spend 30k or even a bit more at a stretch but if they go for a Territory which she's not as keen on she's looking to spend a fair bit less. I know they were looking at Jeeps at one stage but they seem to have gone off the radar for some reason - must find out why..........

We've never had anything like a Merc so I'm worried about the price of parts etc as I assume they can be expensive to repair? :confused: Normal servicing will be done by Chev's, so barring special servicing needs (if any? :confused:) I don't see servicing being an issue, only potentially parts.

So my questions come down to:

a) any other vehicles people recommend looking at as good tow cars (occasionally) for horse floats but not huge like Patrols or Landcruisers and must be comfortable and relatively economical daily drivers.
b) does anyone have knowledge of parts prices for Merc ML series vehicles in particular
c) things to watch out for in particular when buying used Territories, ML Mercs or other potentially suitable vehicles i.e. known problems.

Any info greatly appreciated thanks as I have no knowledge of such cars. :doh:

Thanks,
Gary

[C4B]

I would seriously consider a Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6. Comfortable, drive great, 3500kg tow capacity. Be around the right price range too by now.

I had one for 3 years and it was a brilliant vehicle....

[mickeyVX350]

I was looking at the ML320/50 for over 18 months. I was looking at latter 2008 or newer (I just preferred the lines) but the price was still around mid 40K and up! My circumstances changed and I ended up lowering my sights to something smaller and newer. The reasons I never pursued the Merc more were:
1. Age for $$$
2. Service costs (advised by a mate who is a mechanic)
3. Cost to run, even in diesel guise.
The last 2 points I was told "People who buy thee usually don't worry about the cost to run them!!"

I bought a Captiva in the end, but could have had an ex-exec driven TDC Territory for $38K.

I know that the Captiva isn't going to do what you want, but I seriously will, and always have recommended the Adventra. I still have mine in the shed. My ex brother in Law uses one to tow his float (3.6L on LPG) and I too have towed floats and heavy trailers with mine. They are awesome. Spacious car too.

[JT]

we had some series 1 territorys at work here (rwd) they all needed rear bushes at 150,000ks (apparently expensive repair)

[mjrandom]

...either a Territory or ML Merc for occasional towing with her horse...

They aren't that unreliable! Sorry Wonks, couldn't help myself.

We had a few Terrortrees as company buses and they all needed suspension work out of warranty and the repairs were in the $thousands. They were also very heavy on fuel, made my Clubbie look like an eco bus. A mate has an ML and apart from struggling to keep the front end aligned and in tyres it has been good with well over 160,000km use and no faults. He hasn't mentioned service costs but I would think that if anything broke it would be expensive to repair.

Not sure you are going to find anything that fits in the good tow car / comfortable / economical daily category. Your daughter is going to find a huge change from a car like she had to any of the SUVs or 4wds as a daily. I couldn't do it. We have had Patrols, Pajeros and Prados (we use them off road with some bush and beach work) and the last two Prados are cheaper to own than my Clubbie. Both diesels. You could get an early Prado 120 diesel that isn't too big and drives ok while having that sort of towing capacity. Not many issues but the 1KZ diesel has some history of cracking heads and the 1KD (D4D) motor is known for injector problems and injector seal problems. $35k should get you an 07 or 08 D4D auto GXL and if you are lucky it has the full electronic safety suite of TC, VSC, etc etc. I sold mine 6 weeks ago with 130k on for $38k but it well kitted out for 4wd'ing. The injectors are easily tested as is the seal problem. Injectors are expensive from Toyota but there are aftermarket options that aren't bad. Manuals (6 speed) can have clutch issues. Very little else goes wrong. PM if you want some more info.

The other option is to buy a cheap dual cab and just have that for trailer duties. I kow it is an extra rego, insurance etc but sometimes the cost works out better.

I can't comment of the softer SUVs but there might be something out there... I know a work colleague spent an age searching for something along these lines to pull their caravan for a couple of weeks a year and he ended up in a Volvo wagon thing after giving up on Subarus etc.

[seldo]

.... My daughter's partner (landscaper) has also been just given a work vehicle (2WD Hilux cab/tray) so she's now looking at selling her much loved VY2 SS which she's had for over 4 years and getting either a Territory or ML Merc for occasional towing with her horse and general commuting to and from work etc......

Thanks,
Gary
Gary - this reminds me of a mate of mine who said to me one day he was going to sell his V8 Falcon family wagon and get a Land Rover (this is a loooong time ago...) I asked him why, because the Landy in those days was an awful daily driver. He said that he wanted it because he liked to go away camping at Easter each year....My response was to remind him that he also used to hire/borrow a truck a couple of times each year to take stuff to the tip.....therefore, would he like to drive a tipper as a daily drive? ......Ermmm....No....

[BanPC]

Have you checked out the Toyota Kluger?... and don't forget the VW toureg.... only ever had a ride in both of them (never owned one) but they were pretty silky drive and felt solid.

[matthewfnorbert]

the new touareg 150 tdi is a relative bargain

ive owned plenty and found merc costs less than mitsubishi tdi!!

ALL new tdi's out of warranty will cost plenty, they will/may hurt you.


after years of tdi costs i have gone for petrol, new petrol tech means they have low fuel consumption and less maint costs.. not to mention throttle response.


having said that the new ML with 2.1 tdi is great engine


like all cars dont buy what you ca not really afford... they are the worst investment you can make but boy are they fun

[CALDIR]

Hi

I would look at an ML, just be weary and don't take it to a Merc dealer for servicing. For example my "crankshaft position sensor" just gave up last week in my AMG E55 Kompressor and I was quoted $800 to diagnose the issue and $1400 to replace the part so all up $2200.....YEAH RIGHT I THOUGHT! As I was able to diagnose it myself as I own my own copy of the genuine Mercedes diagnostic software I was able to walk into a Merc dealer and buy the genuine part for $160 and have it fitted by a mechanic (Chev's is perfect) and it took around 10 minutes too install and I was happy to pay $50 to my local mechanic so total cost to me was $210 versus the Mercedes dealership quote of $2200. One thing I note was the Merc dealer wouldn't fit the new sensor till they at least charged me $800 to fully diagnose it...bloody rip offs. You can also find lots of Merc parts suppliers online including a mob in Canberra that if you give them your vin they can source you any new Merc part and ship it to you and some of the pricing is up to 30% off what you pay at a local Merc dealer. But I do have the email address to the parts department at Mercedes Benz in Mornington, Victoria and when I have asked for a quote on parts I have found them to be very reasonable and sometimes cheaper than what I expected.

Oh and if you get your ML serviced at Chev's he is more than welcome to borrow my Merc diagnostic software should he need it when you bring your car in for servicing as I can just drop it off the day before you leave your car there. My brother has an ML350 about 4 years old and it seriously drives likes a sedan. Good luck in your decision making.

And don't forget when you find the right ML to get it checked out thoroughly by someone that knows what they are doing, I can highly recommend Sonny of Autowerks if you find an ML in Sydney as you will be quite surprised at what he finds when he goes over a car with his microscope!

Regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

[Wonky]

Thanks guys - plenty of things for her to consider there, so I'll give her the link. Any more comments appreciated. :goodjob:

[bluedivide]

Thanks guys - plenty of things for her to consider there, so I'll give her the link. Any more comments appreciated. :goodjob:

Wonky

I can't comment on anything other than a Territory...

I bought mine for tow duties and it was $10k (after trading in the wifes 04 Pulsar) 2004 AWD with 135k on the clock.

So far we have put 25k on it towing a 1400kg caravan and it hasn't missed a beat, it generally returns about 15-16ltrs per 100km and is a comfortable vehicle for towing. It also feels better on the road than my mates Prado or another mates Pajero (both later models).

A good used Territory can be had for $12-17k which equates to cheap motoring in my book.

Things to note

We installed a heavy duty trans cooler and hitch which takes tow capacity to 2500kg
A had the transmission serviced as soon as I bought it just in case ($220)
Its fitted with an electric brake controller for the caravan ($450)
Front Ball joints were replaced before I bought the car (apparently they can fail in the original design)

Aside from that it has been a brilliant tow donkey and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a light duty tow vehicle.

Cheers
john

[Smitty]

Gary

just thought I would throw this up.....

we at work are in the process of removing all the Territorys out of the fleet (we have 19 of them!)
and replacing them with VE (soon to be VF) sedans or Sportwagons.

Compared to the Holdens (we have more than 25 at last count) and based on several years cost data - fuel maintenance repairs etc,
the Territorys cost a bomb to own (over 100,000 km their repair costs... especially suspension and brakes jump)


hth

[Swordie]

If it's Territory vs ML320 I'd go the Ford. The ML320 doesn't have a good reputation. The current model Territory diesel would be nice. Maybe an X5 diesel if you want Euro. Prado would tow the required load and be reliable.

Here are some owner reviews

http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/mercedes-benz/m-class/

[Smashfist]

I don't know if Ford have fixed them more recently but the Territorys have a BAD habit of flogging the shit out of all their arse end bushes. Dropping the rear cradle to change shit like diff bushes out isn't a cheap repair.

Mercs always have been and always will be expensive to fix, nothing's going to change there. Why not an adventra? They're getting a bit old these days, but at least they're cheap to fix and cost peanuts to run if gas suits you.

[Wonky]

Yeah, have just suggested Cross 8/Adventra type vehicles. May appeal given she loves her VY2 SS and in 80,000 - 100,000km she's done in it she's had no major problems - just clutch and suspension bushes which are typical for VT-VZ.

[BLACKVE]

Yeah, have just suggested Cross 8/Adventra type vehicles. May appeal given she loves her VY2 SS and in 80,000 - 100,000km she's done in it she's had no major problems - just clutch and suspension bushes which are typical for VT-VZ.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/holden-adventra-2004-14055540?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=3&eapi=2&__N=1246%201252%201247%201282%204294965857%2042949 65724%201216%20246&num=15&silo=Stock&sort=default

Only 2100 towing though.

I have a few friends with the teerys and all love them the 6 speed versions better of course. New diesel apparently isn't that powerful but ok on juice.

Looking at first post it looks like a diesel of some sort required :(

[ssv402]

re read :P Why not an xc60 or xc70?

[lumina ss]

If you buy a diesel ML especially a late model one with the soot filter burn of exhaust stuff, you have no choice but getting a dealer to do oil changes. If you use non oem oil it clogged the filter and won't burn off. A couple of thousand k later it goes into limp home mode and you have to pay 2500 for a new filter. Evidently it's real common for people to try non oem once. Oh the oil is nearly a hundred a litre

[XUV]

Yeah, have just suggested Cross 8/Adventra type vehicles. May appeal given she loves her VY2 SS and in 80,000 - 100,000km she's done in it she's had no major problems - just clutch and suspension bushes which are typical for VT-VZ.

lot of bang for your buck to be had and you know what mods to make.


http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/holden-adventra-2004-14055540?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=3&eapi=2&__N=1246%201252%201247%201282%204294965857%2042949 65724%201216%20246&num=15&silo=Stock&sort=default

Only 2100 towing though.

:(
throw on a 2500kg tow bar like i did, picked a genuine holden one up for a hundred bucks , picked up 800 pound of pulling power ;)

[ssv402]

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/volvo-xc60-2010-14662029?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=1&eapi=2&__N=1246%201252%201247%201282%204294962907%2042947 85529%201216&num=15&silo=Stock&sort=default Seems good value and has towbar?

[chocco]

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/volvo-xc60-2010-14662029?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=1&eapi=2&__N=1246%201252%201247%201282%204294962907%2042947 85529%201216&num=15&silo=Stock&sort=default Seems good value and has towbar?

Only 2000kg tow capacity.

2006 Crewman 6ltr auto on gas, 2500kg tow, will pull the float no problems. Thunder version had the C6 calipers same as HSV.

2005 hsv avalanche xuv you get the big brakes, rims are 775kg load rated, tow is only 2100kg cause of the tyres, put load rated tyres on it, pay $300 and get it certified for $2500 kg.

I am biased though.



Cheap to service, cheap to fix. Just not a ladies car.

[Wonky]

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/volvo-xc60-2010-14662029?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=1&eapi=2&__N=1246%201252%201247%201282%204294962907%2042947 85529%201216&num=15&silo=Stock&sort=default Seems good value and has towbar?

I suspect Volvo parts/repairs not cheap? :confused:

[chocco]

lot of bang for your buck to be had and you know what mods to make.


throw on a 2500kg tow bar like i did, picked a genuine holden one up for a hundred bucks , picked up 800 pound of pulling power ;)

U can have it certified for 2500kg, cost you $300, as long as the rims and tyres are load rated. U will get a new compliance for 2500kg, theres no need to be illegal.

I only found this out after I got my Cross 8.

[planetdavo]

ANY Euro vehicle is POTENTIALLY very expensive to fix. Doesn't matter if it's an Astra or a Porsche. The earlier ML's in particular did have a pretty average reputation for reliability. You really do want to take these sorts of cars to people that are familiar with them.
There is a bit of a saying around about Euro cars. They are great....when under warranty.

[C4B]

There is a bit of a saying around about Euro cars. They are great....when under warranty.

Very true. And the re-sale on them totally reflects this. With my old Discovery 3, I sold it with 9 months warranty still to run and got an astonishing amount for it. The same model just out of warranty (ie: not even 12 months older) were selling for $10k less.

People get rid of cars for a reason..... If they're getting rid of them for a lot less than you would think they should be worth (like many Merc's) ask yourself "why are they so keen to get rid of them?".

[chocco]

ANY Euro vehicle is POTENTIALLY very expensive to fix. Doesn't matter if it's an Astra or a Porsche. The earlier ML's in particular did have a pretty average reputation for reliability. You really do want to take these sorts of cars to people that are familiar with them.
There is a bit of a saying around about Euro cars. They are great....when under warranty.

Not a Merc, but a friend has a Audi Q7 twin turbo diesel that he tows his 26ft van with, out of warranty and only 50k on the clock. Took it in for a service cause it wasnt feeling right, both turbo's were shagged tried to sting him $9,000.

They settled on labour, Audi supplied the parts after a few choice words.

[abrowne70]

Dont get a territory, like has been said they kill there bushes. RWD kill rear bushes and expensive to fix and AWD ones kill front and rear diff bushes, also costly. Thats my advice, steer clear

[duke5700]

What about a 4 door ute in 2wd like a Dmax or the like Wonky? Too agricultural for her?

I've got the 4wd version of the 2010 Dmax and all up rolling weight of 5T averaged 14.5L per 100kms when I picked up the SS. The 2wd version has a 2.5T towing capacity I believe.

[Wonky]

Matt has just got a 2WD Hilux (I think) cab with tray as a company car and they're currently trying to sell his 18mth old identical car, so I think they're looking for something a little less agricultural as you say for her day to day use. However, I will mention them to her.

[RAWKUS]

My Ex is in a similar position. Shortlisted are Crewman and Territory (her suggestion, not mine). My Adventra was bought for her originally for this purpose, so maybe I should get something that I really wanted like an Avalanche and she can have it back....actually, no. I like my car and don't want to see it get trashed. It's for horses after all. Problem is, I don't like any car getting bad treatment, so wouldn't make any difference really. A "friend" of hers tried to sell her a Ford Explorer :eeeeek: That aint a friend, but the upside is it will trash itself (more so than it would be already)

[Wonky]

Whatever my daughter gets it will be looked after pretty well, even with horses, as she won't be towing too often we envisage.

[amckiwi]

Was / Is the ML assembled in the US?

Stuart

[duke5700]

Ultimate situation.. she keeps the SV8 and Matt negotiates to borrow the Hilux when needed for towing duties :nyuk:

[RAWKUS]

Whatever my daughter gets it will be looked after pretty well, even with horses, as she won't be towing too often we envisage.

Rugs get thrown on the bonnet, bags of feed dragged up the back bumper, buckles from headstalls whacking against the pillars, dirt road buildup...that's my experience anyway! Can you teach my ex some car treatment ettiquette Gary? I've given up! :rolleyes:

[Wonky]

Our 91 Patrol was our my wife's car and tow car for well over 10 years until we got her a 4 cyl for day to day use and it became the tow car only and was left parked out in the open, during which time it has suffered. However, before that it was always treated with respect. The horses were never let near it.

[Swordie]

For $30K you could pickup a low km current model Territory with warranty. Allot of car for the money.

[Swordie]

How did you go? Did you buy anything?

[v8dude78]

Wish i seen this thread earlier lol
Has she considered a 2005ish Toyota prado I know it's a 4wd but its not as big as a landcruiser (about same size as our Challenger) comes with a diesel. They are very fuel efficient very nice to drive and has a braked towing capacity of 3000 kg's

[Wonky]

How did you go? Did you buy anything?

Due to financial constraints making it difficult to justify the upgrade (exacerbated by her partner getting rear ended and doing the typical male thing of "she'll be right", then months later when too late to claim on TAC having to have well over a month off work with whiplash related problems - still ongoing with more bills to come :() and getting permission to put a heavy duty towbar and electric brake controller on his work Hilux, they've taken that option.

As a by the by, last night at my Father's Day dinner the other daughter told Sarah that yesterday when she was coming home from the city down the Monash Fwy she saw an ML Merc seriously on fire near the Stud Rd exit. :eek:

[Ausmartin1]

I have to laugh that all the Ford Bushes are worn out, Maybe they should learn of the Japanese Toyota Hiace vans get to 900,000Km before bushes are stuffed and Territory 100,000Km, sounds like Ford
as usual - selected cheapest materials to get it to an engineering Km Figure.
:lmao:

Ford through the decades - does anything ever really change?