Only 700 Falcons sold last month. Why bother?

[Marco]

Article here: http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/australian-large-cars-hit-record-lows-20130502-2iu5b.html

1600 Commodores sold and 700 Falcons. Commodore figures are explained as Holden having basically run out of VEs to sell - there might be something in this as there was only one new VE at my local dealer when I was down there the other day (a ute). Falcon though - only 700 sales and no particular excuse; just that nobody wants them.

I've backed the local industry for years and will continue to do so, but I just can't see the point of continuing to make the Falcon if hardly anybody is buying it; and Ford doesn't seem to have any sort of plan for the future. At least with Holden we might not like what they'll make from 2016/7 onwards (assuming some Camry-type FWD misery car) but at least there's been recognition that something needs to be done.

It pains me to say this, but I think taxpayer dollars should be pulled out of Ford and concentrated on Holden and Toyota as the most likely companies to have a manufacturing future here.

[Jamolad]

Wow, that really is not many at all, and with the next Falcon more than a year away it makes you wonder how few they will be selling mid next year when in run-out mode with the few traditional Falcon buyers holding out for the next model.

If it weren't for Territory being built off the same platform you would think they wouldn't be able to justify the 2014 model Falcon. Hopefully the new Territory had a good month, otherwise Broadmeadows could be looking at more down days to align production with demand.

[Hi Octane]

The top selling cars in March 2013
Mazda3 3,785
Toyota Corolla 3,510
Toyota HiLux 3125
Hyundai i30 2,295
Nissan Navara 2,440
Holden Cruze 2,335
Mitsubishi Triton 1,995
Toyota Camry 1,915
Ford Ranger 1,685
Nissan Pulsar 1,630


Thats March figures. From Carsales.com

[Jamolad]

Would March have been the first month since release that Commodore did not make the top 10?

[CLUBRED]

How is the Pulsar anywhere near top 10? I've seen ONE, just one on the road, and from what I've been told it's a heap of junk.

[Evman]

I genuinely hate this. I'm Holden through and through but you come to love the "opposition" over time. I'd never wish Ford Oz to fail.

[lmoengnr]

How many of the 700 were taxi's?

[Marco]

Would March have been the first month since release that Commodore did not make the top 10?

I think that would be right. One of the articles I read this morning said Nov '12 was the first time in 17 years that Camry had outsold Commodore and it's been outselling Commodore ever since - that doesn't seem right as I can't imagine Camry having outsold Commodore at any time in 1995 by a long shot.


How is the Pulsar anywhere near top 10? I've seen ONE, just one on the road, and from what I've been told it's a heap of junk.

It's only been on sale for one or two months - it's just gone straight to the top 10 on the strength of its well known nameplate and low, low price. Other than the past few years Pulsars were on sale since 1980 or thereabouts so there's a lot of goodwill in that badge.


I genuinely hate this. I'm Holden through and through but you come to love the "opposition" over time. I'd never wish Ford Oz to fail.

I don't particularly wish them to fail but I think it is inevitable and I'm wondering what the point is of trying to keep it afloat - good money after bad etc. I'd be delighted to be wrong and find that Ford Australia has a plan for the next decade of manufacturing here but I don't think it does. In hindsight I reckon the day they announced they would build a four pot Falcon rather than Focus here was really the day they announced their intention to shut up shop. Again, would love to be wrong but we've heard nothing at all about future Falcon or Territory models.

[185iboy]

It's a shame. I just sold my FG xr6t and if there was a new Falcon xr6t available I'd buy it. Best car I've ever owned by far and it was my first Ford..Driving position was different but became very comfortable with it over time.

Good luck Ford :(

[redvxr8clubby]

Realistically you should count Territory sales in conjunction with Falcon. If you count Sportwagon sales in with Commodore, counting Territory with Falcon is reasonable, there is no Falcon wagon now and Territory is essentially same running gear and platform.

[redvxr8clubby]

Article here: http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/australian-large-cars-hit-record-lows-20130502-2iu5b.html

At least with Holden we might not like what they'll make from 2016/7 onwards (assuming some Camry-type FWD misery car) but at least there's been recognition that something needs to be done.



There was an article in todays paper regarding Malibu, sounds pretty crap really, lowest power output in class and near highest fuel consumption, also fuel consumption not much less than VF.

[VX2VESS]

The top selling cars in March 2013
Mazda3 3,785
Toyota Corolla 3,510
Toyota HiLux 3125
Hyundai i30 2,295
Nissan Navara 2,440
Holden Cruze 2,335
Mitsubishi Triton 1,995
Toyota Camry 1,915
Ford Ranger 1,685
Nissan Pulsar 1,630


Thats March figures. From Carsales.com

Mazda 3 has been at the top or near it for a long time now. Good car but I don't particularly like its looks, and i have one lol wifes..a mps seems good value it just doesn't look sporty enough. megane looks better but seems to expensive for a little car.

Maybe thats why V8supercars are bringing in other makes for when holden ford are no longer, as far v8 rwd sedans.

Corolla is crawling back up, now they are back on track with cars that look better. before they were bland and boring looking, i think they are stealing design cues from Hyundai. noticed how popular hyundai were getting while at the same time Toyota was declining from its high spot, too many boring shapes for too long.

[Jag530G]

There was an article in todays paper regarding Malibu, sounds pretty crap really, lowest power output in class and near highest fuel consumption, also fuel consumption not much less than VF.

Evidently on some of the US websites the Malibu has also been criticised for many things, including poor packaging. Lack of rear leg room compared with the US model Accord and Camry is a low point. GM are evidently rushing out a facelifted version to deal with the various criticisms. By the time 2017 rolls around there should be an all new model.

Mind you if the Malibu is poorly received here, Holden will be in a bind for 2017.

Cheers, Matthew

[VX2VESS]

Cheap Corvettes would be good, not the 100K plus price. gee they are around $50 K over there and our $ is better! why 3 times the price here once they manufacturer RHD, which they are supposed to be doing

[Jag530G]

Cheap Corvettes would be good, not the 100K plus price. gee they are around $50 K over there and our $ is better! why 3 times the price here once they manufacturer RHD, which they are supposed to be doing

The idea of RHD Corvette got canned the day after it was announced, basically someone (can't remember who) spoke out of turn.

[Marco]

Evidently on some of the US websites the Malibu has also been criticised for many things, including poor packaging. Lack of rear leg room compared with the US model Accord and Camry is a low point. GM are evidently rushing out a facelifted version to deal with the various criticisms. By the time 2017 rolls around there should be an all new model.

Mind you if the Malibu is poorly received here, Holden will be in a bind for 2017.

Cheers, Matthew

Current Wheels has a review of the US spec version - unimpressive.

[AllWheelSlide]

This is quite sad for Aus, especially seeing that the FG is a very good car.

[steve_t]

Hilux, Navara, Triton, Ranger - how's the building industry going over there? Pretty strong?

[Jamolad]

Hilux, Navara, Triton, Ranger - how's the building industry going over there? Pretty strong?

Reckon a lot of it would be more to do with the hole-digging industry - mines buying them for use at their sites, and then their FIFO workers buying them for when they are back home to cart around their toys like motor cross bikes, jet-skis etc.

Also seems to be a big increase in regular families jumping out of their SUVs and in to dual-cab utes - starting to see less of the SUVs and more dual cabs on the school run. These days they are not as basic 'work horse' as they used to be - two rows of seats and most offering all the features and comfort of the SUVs and sedans with the added lifestyle benefit of the tray. Its getting harder to find someone to borrow a trailer from these days, and Commodore and Falcon ute owners no longer need to run the stickers that say "Yes this is my ute; no I won't move your ****ing fridge!"

[Hi Octane]

^^^ Not to mention ute's are a good tax dodge.

[redvxr8clubby]

Evidently on some of the US websites the Malibu has also been criticised for many things, including poor packaging. Lack of rear leg room compared with the US model Accord and Camry is a low point. GM are evidently rushing out a facelifted version to deal with the various criticisms. By the time 2017 rolls around there should be an all new model.

Mind you if the Malibu is poorly received here, Holden will be in a bind for 2017.

Cheers, Matthew

I suspect it will be about as succesful as Epica, it's a shame because Holden could do with a good mid sizer. As you say if they don't have it well received before 2017 they will be in a bind.

[redvxr8clubby]

Corolla is crawling back up, now they are back on track with cars that look better. before they were bland and boring looking, i think they are stealing design cues from Hyundai. noticed how popular hyundai were getting while at the same time Toyota was declining from its high spot, too many boring shapes for too long.

I think the bland looks isn't helping Cruze either, sales going down big job cuts, again it's a pity because they are making an effort with Cruze in the refinement, chassis and transmission, quite a good article in recent Wheels mag about MY14 Cruze, but I think it's biggest problem will be it looks exactly the same, 1.6 turbo should be a good thing.

[planetdavo]

Had a good poke around a Malibu last week. Make no mistake, they are a big car.
As always, time will tell. Holden haven't had a medium class car on buyers radars for basically 10 years now, when the bigger and much more expensive ZC Vectra was released, so results won't happen overnight.

[planetdavo]

Evidently on some of the US websites the Malibu has also been criticised for many things, including poor packaging. Lack of rear leg room compared with the US model Accord and Camry is a low point. GM are evidently rushing out a facelifted version to deal with the various criticisms.


The boot is HUGE in these, and a very usable shape. Depends what the buyers priorities are I guess- more rear legroom for regular back seat passengers, or more boot space to cart stuff around.

[planetdavo]

I think the bland looks isn't helping Cruze either, sales going down big job cuts, again it's a pity because they are making an effort with Cruze in the refinement, chassis and transmission, quite a good article in recent Wheels mag about MY14 Cruze, but I think it's biggest problem will be it looks exactly the same, 1.6 turbo should be a good thing.

The main "problem" for Cruze is the continuing high Aus dollar. Buyers can go for Japanese or Euro badges for little or no extra money whilst it remains where it is.

[Jag530G]

Had a good poke around a Malibu last week. Make no mistake, they are a big car.
As always, time will tell. Holden haven't had a medium class car on buyers radars for basically 10 years now, when the bigger and much more expensive ZC Vectra was released, so results won't happen overnight.

The Malibu is nearly as big as a VZ Commodore, but you can see why it has rear legroom issues, have a look at the wheelbase vs length in comparison to the VZ Commodore, 17mm shorter car but with a 61mm shorter wheelbase. Also compared to the smaller Cruze, the Malibu has a 53mm longer wheel base yet 262mm longer car. Both are front wheel drive but the Malibu is the king of overhang, no wonder it has a big boot. The sad truth is that the Epsilon II platform is GM back at its bad old ways, designing big-on-the-outside-small-on-the-inside cars. (Begs the question, why would anyone actually buy the Malibu? The Cruze has nearly as much interior space for 4 and a VE/VF isn't much bigger on the outside if you need space for 5)

The Toyota Camry is built on a 37 mm longer wheel base but is 54mm shorter overall, far better interior packaging. The problem for GM is that the Camry (and Accord) has dominated the US family sedan sales chart for years, partly because of the rubbish GM served up since the 70's. There is an entire generation of Americans who have grown up and won't consider GM for a family sedan, they reflexively buy Camrys and Accords and the Malibu won't change their mind unless it was blindingly better. GM have been found wanting with the new Malibu, which is a bit sad when you consider much of what else they have released recently has been great.

Cruze Wheel Base 2,685 mm
Malibu Wheel Base 2,738 mm
VE Commo Wheel Base 2,915 mm
VZ Commo Wheel Base 2,789 mm
Camry Wheel Base 2,775 mm

Cruze Length 4,597 mm
Malibu Length 4,859 mm
VE Commo Length 4,894 mm
VZ Commo Length 4,876 mm
Camry Length 4,805 mm

Cruze Width 1,788 mm
Malibu Width 1,854 mm
VE Commo Width 1,899 mm
VZ Commo Width 1,842 mm
Camry Width 1,820 mm

Cheers, Matthew

[planetdavo]

It's probably not the best comparison to compare rear wheel drive wheelbase measurements with front wheel drive drive wheelbase measurememnts. Front wheel drive cars almost always have an inherent "statistical" failing, in that the front wheels have to be further back toward the rear of the car to allow driveshafts to run behind the engine block.
At the end of the day I've sat in one in all seating positions and wouldn't call them remotely cramped. If Malibu has less space than some others but usually has kids/younger teens in the back, it's hardly going to matter either way is it. If it has less space than some others but regularly carries basketball players in the back, it might! Where the driver/front passenger sits also affects the space the rear passengers have too remember. Most people I know never fully extend their front seats to the rear of the seat travel.
Like I said, time will tell. Cruze hardly set the world on fire as far as the media was concerned when it came out either, but the punters bought vastly more of them than the AH Astra and Viva combined.

[IJ.]

Drove a Mates 1.4 Cruze last weekend with close to 400Kg's of people in it, was surprised just how good it performed.

GF is thinking about buying one.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Despite what holden fans think of ford, it wouldn't be good if they weren't around. Holden fans should thank ford! If ford didn't produce the current GT, how much longer would it have taken HSV to up the ante!

[Plenty]

Despite what holden fans think of ford, it wouldn't be good if they weren't around. Holden fans should thank ford! If ford didn't produce the current GT, how much longer would it have taken HSV to up the ante!

Don't think there would be anyone on here that would actually like to see the Falcon go.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Nah, probably not... That's what i like about this place, it's rather mature!


Don't think there would be anyone on here that would actually like to see the Falcon go.

[Troutman]

Falcon remains the all-time best-selling car in this country and has tremendous historical and cultural significance. What bothers me even more than the struggling of the car is the change in society that it reflects - an easy-come-easy-go disposable mindset. Excluding the utes, I can only name 2 cars on the top 10 best seller list that even existed 15 years ago. This implies heritage is actually a bad thing to today's buyers.

Some things we might want to think twice about before throwing away.

[Ausmartin1]

Falcon remains the all-time best-selling car in this country and has tremendous historical and cultural significance. What bothers me even more than the struggling of the car is the change in society that it reflects - an easy-come-easy-go disposable mindset. Excluding the utes, I can only name 2 cars on the top 10 best seller list that even existed 15 years ago. This implies heritage is actually a bad thing to today's buyers.

Some things we might want to think twice about before throwing away.

What - great heritage? I bought my new Falcon years ago based on Money per Sheetmetal Sq'd and it proved to be a bad quality choice.

Only recent year Falcon examples have been acceptable - I know as Falcon Owner the Obsolete technology along with poor quality and support that went into these cars following the Falcon history.

At least with Holden they did have "Sudden" improvement moments as they needed to be able to export, lifting their game helped consumers vs the things going on at Ford Manufacturing Australia were piss poor and it has now come back to bite them like surprise skeletons.

Agree - sad,
but the buying public have had their past tastes and now moving on...... (Ironically when there product has shown signs of improvement).

[C4B]

Falcon remains the all-time best-selling car in this country and has tremendous historical and cultural significance. What bothers me even more than the struggling of the car is the change in society that it reflects - an easy-come-easy-go disposable mindset. Excluding the utes, I can only name 2 cars on the top 10 best seller list that even existed 15 years ago. This implies heritage is actually a bad thing to today's buyers.

Some things we might want to think twice about before throwing away.

The only people to blame for the ultimate demise of Falcon and Commodore are the decision makers at Ford Australia and Holden who, in the face of high fuel prices and demand for physically smaller cars, continued to produce large vehicles with big engines. Lets face it, the 2013 Commodore and Falcon are basically the same car they were producing 30+ years ago when people were buying XD Falcons and VC commodores.

The question we should be asking is how on earth both platforms have survived the last few years......

[bozodos]

And in that regard we should be thankful that we've had affordable LS powered sedans for so many years!

[Jag530G]

The question we should be asking is how on earth both platforms have survived the last few years......

Its amazing that the same basic formula survived in this country for so the long. The large RWD 6cyl family car, from 1950 thereabouts when Holden actually built enough FXs to get sales leadership to the 2011 VE, the biggest seller every year has been a Holden and Ford large RWD 6 cyl for 61 years.

I've long thought that the car industry took the soft option in the 1980s building sedans protected by high tariffs rather than a 4WDs only protected by 5% tariffs. Its ridiculous that Australia, a vast country with a pretty poor road network, didn't start building an SUV until 2003 Territory. To me that is the great what if, what if Ford ploughed some of the profits of the high selling XF Falcon and KB Laser into building an American market SUV here...

And here's something really controversial. What if Holden, instead of spending money on developing the V2 Monaro, one tonner, crewman and a half baked SUV in the form of the Adventra (sorry Adventra guys but the market spoke on this one) and instead spent the combined development dollars on a Territory style SUV on the shorter Commodore sedan wheelbase with the option of the VM Motori diesel?

Cheers, Matthew

[IJ.]

Matt, what does a Territory have that an Adventra doesn't?

[C4B]

Matt, what does a Territory have that an Adventra doesn't?

Some semblance of fuel economy ;-)

[IJ.]

Some semblance of fuel economy ;-)

Addy's aren't bad if you keep them out of the City ;)

[Jag530G]

Matt, what does a Territory have that an Adventra doesn't?

Packaging. Higher but shorter body, means you can have the passengers sitting on higher seats needing less leg room and therefore fit 3 decent rows of seats. Compare an Adventra: when sitting in the driver's seat where your knees are vs how far further forward your feet are and compare that to a proper SUV such as the Territory. The higher seat of an SUV means that your feet don't need to be as further ahead of your knees, allows for better packaging.

The other more trivial reason is reason is style, people don't really want a jacked up wagon, they want an SUV shape. The jacked up station wagon body was a bit of a market segment dead end (apart from Subaru), Audi gave up on the All Road because buyers wanted the Q-cars.

If the Adventra had been built on the sedan wheelbase (like the Terry on the Falcon w/b) and had a higher body and looked less like a station wagon it would have been much more successful IMHO.

Cheers, Matthew

[Jag530G]

That's the other sad thing for Ford, if they had a diesel for the Terry from the start and sorted out the quality issues with the front suspension, they would have absolutely owned the SUV market and probably would still in business past 2016. Ford caught Toyota with its pants down by making the 2WD Terry, people wanted the SUV shape but not the 4WD capability or fuel penalty, brilliant idea. It was in response to the 2WD Terry that Toyota introduced the 2WD version of the Kluger.

Cheers, Matthew

[IJ.]

Packaging. Higher but shorter body, means you can have the passengers sitting on higher seats needing less leg room and therefore fit 3 decent rows of seats. Compare an Adventra: when sitting in the driver's seat where your knees are vs how far further forward your feet are and compare that to a proper SUV such as the Territory. The higher seat of an SUV means that your feet don't need to be as further ahead of your knees, allows for better packaging.

The other more trivial reason is reason is style, people don't really want a jacked up wagon, they want an SUV shape. The jacked up station wagon body was a bit of a market segment dead end (apart from Subaru), Audi gave up on the All Road because buyers wanted the Q-cars.

If the Adventra had been built on the sedan wheelbase (like the Terry on the Falcon w/b) and had a higher body and looked less like a station wagon it would have been much more successful IMHO.

Cheers, Matthew

Thanks Matt, wasn't being argumentative never even sat in a Territory, I like the Addy because of the fact it's just a jacked up wagon, I think Holden would have done much better if they had just used the CrossTrac system in a standard Wagon and kept prices reasonable!

[Marco]

The only people to blame for the ultimate demise of Falcon and Commodore are the decision makers at Ford Australia and Holden who, in the face of high fuel prices and demand for physically smaller cars, continued to produce large vehicles with big engines. Lets face it, the 2013 Commodore and Falcon are basically the same car they were producing 30+ years ago when people were buying XD Falcons and VC commodores.

The question we should be asking is how on earth both platforms have survived the last few years......

If you were running these businesses, what would you have done? Consider the market as it stood in 2001/2 when Holden was making decisions about the VE. VX was the best selling car in the country by miles; in fact selling at all time highs and producing a good return on investment. That continued a long run of being the best or second best selling car in the country for the previous 50 years.

So in considering a replacement for your signature product, the one that the rest of your business depends upon, would you have continued to do what had worked so well for your company in the past, and which the market appeared to still want, or would you have taken a punt on something different?

If it was my business, I'd have stuck with the proven formula for success. If I was making the decision today, on the other hand, I'd be looking to build something off the GM shelf and looking for a way to build an SUV off either that platform or the Cruze platform. (I've read that the next Captiva will share its platform with the next Cruze, and you would think that GM is probably working on an SUV based on the Epsilon II platform that the Malibu, Impala, Insignia etc sit on to replace some of its current US market products like the Chevy Traverse).

In hindsight we might question whether Holden was right to spend big on an all-new platform rather than say use the GM Sigma platform; but I can't see the justification other than in hindsight for not building the VE.

[Marco]

That's the other sad thing for Ford, if they had a diesel for the Terry from the start and sorted out the quality issues with the front suspension, they would have absolutely owned the SUV market and probably would still in business past 2016. Ford caught Toyota with its pants down by making the 2WD Terry, people wanted the SUV shape but not the 4WD capability or fuel penalty, brilliant idea. It was in response to the 2WD Terry that Toyota introduced the 2WD version of the Kluger.

Ford had one advantage with the 2WD Territory that Toyota didn't: at the time it was introduced IIRC there was a different tariff rate for 4WDs (lower) than for passenger cars. Nobody sold a 2WD SUV at the time because the extra import duty payable meant that its price would be the same as the 4WD version. Ford obviously didn't have this problem...

[Jag530G]

Thanks Matt, wasn't being argumentative never even sat in a Territory, I like the Addy because of the fact it's just a jacked up wagon, I think Holden would have done much better if they had just used the CrossTrac system in a standard Wagon and kept prices reasonable!

You like the Adventra because its got a V8!!!

[C4B]

You like the Adventra because its got a V8!!!

You certainly would never have known it based on the performance.

That's why it was designed to have such shocking fuel economy..... To remind you you were driving a V8!

[macca_779]

You certainly would never have known it based on the performance.

That's why it was designed to have such shocking fuel economy..... To remind you you were driving a V8!

They aren't that bad. I've driven a few and and find their performance adequate for their weight. Certainly better than a v6 sedan