VE V6s a dud?

[Dillzio]

Hi gang, i'm currently looking to buy a VE. I have a nice WH statesman v8 but it's at that age now where lots of stuff is starting to go wrong, and I can't be bothered spending money on the car with no real improvements to show for it. I spoke to a holden wrecker today with some surprising warnings about the VE alloytec engines so I thought I'd ask about them here to see if what he was reporting is actually a common issue.

This guy told me that the way the alloytec is designed, the oil has to pump from the sump, up the side of the engine into a tiny paper oil filter, where it then needs to be pumped up even further into the heads. The consequence of this design (so he says) is that on startup the heads get minimal lubrication, and even at the best of times there still isn't much lubrication going to the heads. Apparently this leads to lots of muck building up in the engine which blocks the channels the oil flows through, leading to a lack of lubrication that ruins the motors. The guy says he has some engines there with less than 70,000 on the clock that are ruined because of this issue. He showed me one of them, and the inside of the heads looked really mucky, lots of dirty grime type stuff all through them.

I was wondering if this is a common issue that other people have heard of as well?

Also wondering if the the same issue might apply to the SIDI engines (the guy at the wrecker said it does)?

thanks heaps!

[mickeyVX350]

Um! OK!

I don't think that you can take that as gospel.. and don't tell my 300,000K old Alloytec!

[feistl]

I have heard of numerous oil related issues with the alloytec V6s, including my bosses which is using around 1.2L of oil per 1000km (2012 VE and holden have no idea how to fix it).
Personally i would avoid them and by the V8 :D

[Radikl]

That is why you buy a 6lt :)

[Micks]

That is why you buy a 6lt :)
Plus one less maint! To be very sure piss off the stock cam, lifters & springs if you want bullet proof insurance!!

[Smashfist]

2 things.

1) any engine that runs 5w30 is going to burn some oil. Side effect of a thin oil.
2) they are a bit prone to sludge, but I only see cases like that where service history is shocking. Get one and change the oil regularly and you'll be sweet. I see hundreds of 3.6l v6's each month and there aren't too many issues with them. Just don't skimp on maintenance, that's what puts them to a quick and early death.

[Devil CV8]

That is why you buy a 6lt :)

I've had an opportunity to do a comparison between my ve SS auto ute and the wife' sv6 auto sedan on my commute Goulburn to Canberra. Over 2 weeks the sv6 does 9.7 l/100, ute does 11.1. Both stock. Is 1.4 difference worth the pain of the6?

[Xjas]

Early VE V6s had timing chain stretch issues also.

[redvxr8clubby]

You do hear about some of them using oil, I have an MY10 SIDI SV6 which will get down to the lower mark on the dipstick by the time next service comes due, but after nearly a year and 15,000 Km travelled between services it seems reasonable to me (car has 90,000 Km on it now). The colour of the oil when due for service looks OK, not black. A contributing reason to me getting a V6 in the VE was I wasn't that confident about V8's. I have a 2000 VXR8 and did have a 2002 VX II Calais 5.7 and I don't have a real problem, but they're not a quiet engine, I don't think I have piston slap, but I do have some noise that I think would be some lifter noise, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed much over the 7 years I have had the Clubby, I have only done less than 30,000 Km in that time (now has about 96,000 Km on it). I figure as Smashfist says that servicing is critical, and I wonder if the cars that sludge, if the oil hasn't been changed as per service schedule, or if lower grade oil than specified has been used. I would agree that 5W30 is likely to use more oil than say 10w40 etc. If the OP is concerned about oil sludging up, you could change more frequently than recommended, say 10,000Km/ 6 months.

[edelbrock1]

My mechanic has replaced a few of these engines in VE. But says they are ONLY a problem when the oil is not changed at regular intervals. Leave it longer than it should and the contaminated oil blocks the galleries and the engine fails.

He told me to change the oil mine every 5k and says the engine will be fine. So that is what I do. I figure oil and a filter in between the 'scheduled' services is way cheaper than a new engine.

[redvxr8clubby]

I've had an opportunity to do a comparison between my ve SS auto ute and the wife' sv6 auto sedan on my commute Goulburn to Canberra. Over 2 weeks the sv6 does 9.7 l/100, ute does 11.1. Both stock. Is 1.4 difference worth the pain of the6?

Agree when you use it out of the city, but it's more like 4 litres/ 100Km difference around the city. My old 5.7 Calais would get about 16.5 l/100Km commuting in Sydney peak traffic, SIDI SV6 about 12.7 in the same traffic. A Fiesta Manual in same conditions gets 7.0 l/100 Km, an '06 Lancer 2.4 wagon auto about 11l/ 100Km in the same peak hour commute.
On the highway the Calais 5.7 would do a bit under 10l/ 100Km, the SIDI SV6 maybe 8.5 l/100Km. Get the Fiesta out on the Highway and it still uses about 7l/100Km.

[shucks]

I know it's blasphemy, but if you're looking at a 6 the Falcon is worth considering. Very torquey, effortless, bulletproof engine, and sounds pretty decent too. Much nicer engine than the alloytech IMO, and even better with a hairdrier hanging off the side...

[swingtan]

Oil sludge is always (well, nearly always) due to maintenance. As has been said, maintain it properly and there should be no issues.

As for efficiency, the new SIDI motor is actually not too bad, but it suffers from the same early tune issues that the LS1 did. There's a lot that can be done to make the engine feel better to drive. Currently the missus Omega Sportwagon is sitting on 12L/100KM, mainly school runs. The last big trip it did it returned an average of 8.9L/100km averaged over 600KM. It's no V8, but it's not a bad unit, even better if fed E85.....


Simon.

[davo81]

Isn't the Alloytech an American GM bolt-in? I would have thought a company as big GM would have come across a pretty big issue such as this!

Mind you, BMW released the S54 and S65 with oil starvation problems...

I think regular servicing is the key with high tolerance modern engines.

[PSI 364]

Agree with you Simon, I have a SV6 SIDI VE ute as an everyday and its pretty good, nice amount of torque and power for a V6 and is not too bad on fuel on long trips I average 8.8L/100km on 2000km round trips.

Oil for me is Castrol Synthetic and changed every 6 months (about 8000km) and for three years it has been reliable, zero issues with sludge on inspection and no oil consumption issues either.

It is screaming for a tune though you can feel torque management kick in but there seems to be limited tunuing ability for a MY10 SV6 thanks to the Bosch controller unless you want a mail order tune from one place I have never heard of or drive 4000kms down to Castle Hill Exhaust. Its sucks a fat one because with a tune these would be great daily drivers IMHO.

[Dillzio]

Thanks for the info guys!

[mantaray]

This is a good thread , some very interesting reading. Thanks

[Micks]

Reckon the V6 is what it is generally ok on economy & performance with little torque! Less fuel though probably more maintenance than the alternative?
Fuel is the cheapest thing we put in our vehicles. Is why atm I'll keep my eights!! :yup:

[Devil CV8]

When my novated lease on a VE SS ute finished last year I checked the outlay and fuel cost me $39,000 odd over 5 years. That was for 252000 km though.

[Micks]

Without being too inquisitive what % was Bus to priv use done there?