Supercharged HSV? - Part 3

[Pickles]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/8CD650844F997820CA257A920018D550
So, whtat d'ya think?
Cheers, Pickles.

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 161012 by Pickles Titled Supercharged HSV?

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 163980 by Pickles Titled Supercharged HSV? - Part 2

[Moderators]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is 163980

[Carby]

Rubbish. Both are performance oriented, large 4 door cars with a similar price tag, performance and options. Some us can't stretch to the decent euros new, but still want massive go in a GT type package. The M5 fits the bill perfectly (until you start examining the cost of a transmission or gearbox replacement and the alarming frequency with which both are required on later models), as does the GTS, the ford GT and a few others. I know I was certainly comparing the 2 now that it's time to think about upgrading, and dare I say it, the ford is in the mix as well. If you're after a large performance 4 door in that price range, those 3 (plus the merc, but I think it's ugly) are probably the main contenders. It just becomes a case of if the badge matter and if you can trade some refinement for a newer car and warranty.

Exactly right. For about 100 k you will get a 2007 2008 M5, or if it doesn't have to be a 4 door how about a C6 Corvette, 2006 model v8 AM Vantage ( surprisingly quick around the Nurburgring) or a nice 2012 model Camaro. Some of these cars have very low Ks as well so for that amount of coin it opens up a very large range of vehicles, that have a real presence and credibility.

[Plenty]

E63 is actually both powerful and fast and obviously way out of the GTS’s league.

Obviously! One is $100,000 the other is $250,000. Honestly who the hell buys a $250,000 E63 AMG and gives a hoot how quick or not Gen F HSV GTS is? Who in their right mind test drives a HSV GTS then goes you know what, i'm gonna go try an E63 now.

[mattnsw]

Plenty
The R8 SV managed a 4.9sec sprint how is that any slower than the F6? It's pretty common knowledge that the Ford/FPV power figure is highly under-rated.



Maybe common knowledge to you and some other car enthusiasts but not to the general public.

It would be more common knowledge if the reviewers start mentioning the understated power output of the Ford whenever they compare it to the HSV.

Otherwise the average joe will have trouble understanding how a 335kw powered car can keep with a 430kw most powerful Australian car ever.

[Plenty]

Maybe common knowledge to you and some other car enthusiasts but not to the general public.

It would be more common knowledge if the reviewers start mentioning the understated power output of the Ford whenever they compare it to the HSV.

Otherwise the average joe will have trouble understanding how a 335kw powered car can keep with a 430kw most powerful Australian car ever.

Yep good point, often wondered why it's not mentioned more often.

[NickS]

The majority of HSV owners are only interested in the "package" ... I've owned 8 and can honestly say I've only ever taken one from zero - 100 km/h, it was far from stock and on a drag strip. The rest have been driven around Sydney or given a bit of a go on the open road ... I couldn't give a shit what they do zero - 100 in.

I own an AMG too, haven't taken that from zero - 100 either.

These times give the mags something to crap on about but if you're looking to spend $100K on a car you don't choose on standing acceleration times. If you have $100K to spend on a car you're generally smarter than that. As others have said, 4 second bracket is plenty quick and more than competitive (hell ... 5 / 6 second bracket is fast enough for a daily driver) beyond that I'm only interested in the whole package.

[mattnsw]

Obviously! One is $100,000 the other is $250,000. Honestly who the hell buys a $250,000 E63 AMG and gives a hoot how quick or not Gen F HSV GTS is? Who in their right mind test drives a HSV GTS then goes you know what, i'm gonna go try an E63 now.

No doubt there is a big price difference but that doesn’t seem to matter these days when comparisons are done. Many mismatched cars are being compared on forums and in reviews.

For weeks while it was speculated the GTS may be almost as fast as the E63 there were a lot of people comparing them.

As I pointed out, the comparison is now over.
Germany – 1 HSV – 0

Bugger the E63, give me a C63 any day. It’s definitely worth the extra for the overall package.

Or if the overall package is not as important, a GT for its cost effective power output would be a lot of fun.

[IJ.]

The majority of HSV owners are only interested in the "package" ... I've owned 8 and can honestly say I've only ever taken one from zero - 100 km/h, it was far from stock and on a drag strip. The rest have been driven around Sydney or given a bit of a go on the open road ... I couldn't give a shit what they do zero - 100 in.

I own an AMG too, haven't taken that from zero - 100 either.

These times give the mags something to crap on about but if you're looking to spend $100K on a car you don't choose on standing acceleration times. If you have $100K to spend on a car you're generally smarter than that. As others have said, 4 second bracket is plenty quick and more than competitive (hell ... 5 / 6 second bracket is fast enough for a daily driver) beyond that I'm only interested in the whole package.
This/end thread

[Pickles]

No doubt there is a big price difference but that doesn’t seem to matter these days when comparisons are done. Many mismatched cars are being compared on forums and in reviews.

For weeks while it was speculated the GTS may be almost as fast as the E63 there were a lot of people comparing them.

As I pointed out, the comparison is now over.
Germany – 1 HSV – 0

Bugger the E63, give me a C63 any day. It’s definitely worth the extra for the overall package.

Or if the overall package is not as important, a GT for its cost effective power output would be a lot of fun.
Depends what you want....we own a C63....and whilst it is a weapon, it has its drawbacks.
It is small, very restricted room in the rear, it has a harsh ride, & getting in & out, whilst not difficult, takes a bit of care if ya don't wanna risk damaging seat bolsters.
None of this particularly bothers us....but it will certainly bother some, who need a bigger, more practical car, and also something that is around half the price....if ya get a C63 with a bit of the stuff that's on the GTS, it's not hard to get close to $200K.....if ya don't believe me, check out the price of the new C63507, then add on LSD, & several of the electronic gizmos that the GTS already has, & ya'll see what I mean.
Cheers, Pickles.

[bouka]

The majority of HSV owners are only interested in the "package" ... I've owned 8 and can honestly say I've only ever taken one from zero - 100 km/h, it was far from stock and on a drag strip. The rest have been driven around Sydney or given a bit of a go on the open road ... I couldn't give a shit what they do zero - 100 in.

I own an AMG too, haven't taken that from zero - 100 either.

These times give the mags something to crap on about but if you're looking to spend $100K on a car you don't choose on standing acceleration times. If you have $100K to spend on a car you're generally smarter than that. As others have said, 4 second bracket is plenty quick and more than competitive (hell ... 5 / 6 second bracket is fast enough for a daily driver) beyond that I'm only interested in the whole package.

That's fair enough nick, it's your criteria and your money and no one else can make that decision for you (stating the obvious, I know).

BUT, the performance figures are what drive extensive r&d with ALL manufacturers who design and build performance oriented cars. Amg v m division, Ferrari v Lamborghini, mustang v corvette etc etc. all throughout history there have been great rivalries amongst performance car manufacturers who have each strived to make their cars faster and quicker than the opposition (and their own previous models).

It is what they use to attract the consumer.

Whilst I see your point, all of your purchases have been performance oriented (using you as an example as you have a long history of buying performance cars), and the competition amongst the brands has lead to better (and faster) cars. Whilst you may not have taken advantage of the full capabilities of the cars, knowing their potential would surely have been part of the buying criteria?

Either way, what a great debate to be having. Sub 5's to 100 and mid, low 12 second cars made locally. I would have been laughed out of town if I said this would be the case 10 years ago.

[brasher]

The majority of HSV owners are only interested in the "package" ... I've owned 8 and can honestly say I've only ever taken one from zero - 100 km/h, it was far from stock and on a drag strip. The rest have been driven around Sydney or given a bit of a go on the open road ... I couldn't give a shit what they do zero - 100 in.

I own an AMG too, haven't taken that from zero - 100 either.

These times give the mags something to crap on about but if you're looking to spend $100K on a car you don't choose on standing acceleration times. If you have $100K to spend on a car you're generally smarter than that. As others have said, 4 second bracket is plenty quick and more than competitive (hell ... 5 / 6 second bracket is fast enough for a daily driver) beyond that I'm only interested in the whole package.

This.

Cars are about emotions, no use jumping in technological rocketship if it doesn't tug at the heartstrings, make you smile when you take it out on the weekend or do the second look when you park it up for the night. For some that might be an Evo that does 0-100 in 2.5sec's or a 1969 Camaro with 400+ cubes of the generals finest. I remember when I worked for Motor magazine a few years back and was umming and arring between an SSV ute and a XR6T 50th Anniv ute and I couldn't decide, the editor at the time said "which one brings the biggest grin to your face when you jump in for the first time" and the deciscion was simple, might not be the fastest in a straight line or do the Nurburgring in 7 minutes flat but it was the car that made me grin like a 6 year old whenever I took it for a wrap.

/cool story hansel

[Deco28]

One test it ran 4.7s...

Wait for more to come out, this car has better suspension, tyres and a more powerful engine then the W427, it will run faster.

[GTS LSA]

This.

Cars are about emotions, no use jumping in technological rocketship if it doesn't tug at the heartstrings, make you smile when you take it out on the weekend or do the second look when you park it up for the night. For some that might be an Evo that does 0-100 in 2.5sec's or a 1969 Camaro with 400+ cubes of the generals finest. I remember when I worked for Motor magazine a few years back and was umming and arring between an SSV ute and a XR6T 50th Anniv ute and I couldn't decide, the editor at the time said "which one brings the biggest grin to your face when you jump in for the first time" and the deciscion was simple, might not be the fastest in a straight line or do the Nurburgring in 7 minutes flat but it was the car that made me grin like a 6 year old whenever I took it for a wrap.

/cool story hansel

Nicely said, :D I went from a 350 rwkw GTO to a 240 awkw EVO that could 0 to 100 in sub 4 and do wakefield in. 1.042 ( which is not a bad number for that power for those that havent been there) they both had me grinning like a 13 year who has just discovered girls..... Completely different both with positives and negatives... Each to their own whatever floats your boat

[jc_sv8]

Even though the simplest measurement is 0-100 it is not the be all and end all.
Important? Merrrr, may be.
Qtr mile times, probably more relevant as it shows more of the ability to get the power down.

To settle all arguments of whether it's a performance car or not get it to the ring.....

[jc_sv8]

But remember this is a true family sedan, not a single seat no frills race car, something that will sit in Sydney traffic for hours on the way to Eastern Creek and then eat it up when it gets there!

[jaykay]

So what car can you buy for RRP $92,990 that has the performance numbers to match or better the Gen F GTS ?? :idea:

[macca_779]

So what car can you buy for RRP $92,990 that has the performance numbers to match or better the Gen F GTS ?? :idea:

GT gets pretty close

[Drizt]

GT gets pretty close

How close would it get around the N'Ring ???

The GT has half the fruit....

[macca_779]

How close would it get around the N'Ring ???

The GT has half the fruit....

Very true and I'd rather a gts any day for the week. But it does also command an extra $20k+. Or $40k+ if all you cared about was going fast and got a GS

[Xjas]

So what car can you buy for RRP $92,990 that has the performance numbers to match or better the Gen F GTS ?? :idea:

This would be pretty close

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Nissan-GT-R-2008/SSE-AD-834102/?Cr=1&sdmvc=1

[jaykay]

This would be pretty close

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Nissan-GT-R-2008/SSE-AD-834102/?Cr=1&sdmvc=1

Am talking new for new

[GTS LSA]

^^^ 20k well spent, even if, just because it isnt a ford:cool:


I apoligise in advance, but this is still a holden forum :hide:

[GTS LSA]

^^^ Yeah, but if you have 90k, dont touch a jap import GTR, may as well go put it all on black

[Vulture]

So what car can you buy for RRP $92,990 that has the performance numbers to match or better the Gen F GTS ?? :idea:

LINK (http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/cla45/index_eng.php)

0-100 and 0-400 it probably matches the GTS. But it is small.

[GTS LSA]

LINK (http://www.mercedes-amg.com/webspecial/cla45/index_eng.php)

0-100 and 0-400 it probably matches the GTS. But it is small.

Link keeps dropping out my end, but if thats the cla amg, not bad, i am thinking of exiting my wifes R36 wagon for the a45 AMG... Depending on election outcomes re FBT .. Either AMG looks very nice

[jc_sv8]

Only problem is taking a couple of mates and their clubs to the course... As I said family sedan.

[Xjas]

Am talking new for new

Fair enough, possibly a Lotus Elise then.

[GTS LSA]

^ $$ maybe dunno what an Elise is worth, but not the same market... I dont mind the new Exige, performance and $ wise, but the kids might struggle holding onto the spoiler on the way to school :shiner: maybe 10 years from now

[macca_779]

EVO X. $60k and will pump a GTS to 100 dunno about to 400m though. Can even fit the family in much the same as a C63 space wise

[GTS LSA]

EVO X. $60k and will pump a GTS to 100 dunno about to 400m though. Can even fit the family in much the same as a C63 space wise

yep, little rocket, I had an MR and loved the TC-SST gearbox and drives like go kart, Is small and got to put up with the harsh ride, but I loved it

[bozodos]

I think it's a bit of a sweeping statement to compare the Evo X offhand - totally different car to the GTS.

[macca_779]

I think it's a bit of a sweeping statement to compare the Evo X offhand - totally different car to the GTS.

They're both forced induction 4 door performance cars aren't they.

[GTS LSA]

More just throwing a few more ideas into the mix I think, all have their + & -

But no you cant really compare an X to a GTS

[Vulture]

Has anyone seen this yet LINK (http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2013/large-passenger/holden-special-vehicles/gts/hsv-gts-quickest-ever-37981)

I was trying to post the pic as they provide the URL. Maybe one of the mods could fix it? Says remote file too large.

[JimmyXR6T04]

If sheer grunt is what you're after, then the GT is a fantastic option, and at least 30k cheaper (plenty on carsales for sub 70k). I'm tossing up between the GT and GTS for next year, and part of me wants the overall package of the GTS, a car already intercooled, with big brakes and fantastic tech. The other part of me wants that basic muscle car that the GT offers. I also wouldn't mind picking up one of the last GT's, so i'm thinking a GT next year, then a few years later a nice low km GTS... The GT will be parked up for occasionally use. Best of both worlds!

Regardless of whether the GTS does 0-100 in 4.4 or 4.7, it's still a great bit of car for the price!

[SV805]

Although I agree that 0 -100 is not the be all, as Bouka has said it is the standard benchmark for measuring vehicles by all manufactures of performance vehicles, so is relevant and important. Most people would prefer an all round fast car rather than just a straight line performer, but surely if these early times are accurate there has to be questions asked.
Before any figures started to appear, given the KW , Torque, Weight, suspension and tyres would you have been guessing at 4.7 ? or a quicker time given compariable vehicles.
If it was less then what is the explaination. Obviously Gt is underrated, but I sure hope the GTS is not overrated. We did see an early dyno of this engine and it seemed to be well down on what you would expect, and then with slower than predicted times got to start asking why. Yep 4.7 is still very fast and if it handles great even better and has full warranty ect, but what could the reasons be for these times.

Is engine management limiting power off the mark to protect the drive train. What have other vehicles such as MErc and BMW got that this doesn't.

[team illucid]

What have other vehicles such as MErc and BMW got that this doesn't.

Over engineering - the thing makes German built cars better than most others, is also the downfall for owners when it comes time to replace bits and pieces.

The other thing is that German cars tend to be highly strung and already close to their peak - there is no easy extraction of another 100KW without a massive investment. However, a lazy old LS engine can get an extra 100KW for a relatively low spend. I do not doubt that anyone on this forum that gets the new GTS, will be pulling 11's with a low investment, and will be extremely happy with their purchase, despite what the knockers are saying.

[bozodos]

They're both forced induction 4 door performance cars aren't they.

Going by that sort of logic, why don't you and I drive Evos then? I did consider that or an STi before getting my VZ. Lackluster styling, boring to commute in and expensive parts / maintenance (also not being a V8) were the deciding factors against for me.



Also agree re: parts on Euros and relative ease of reliable modification to LS engined cars. That said, for the target market of the GTS, it is a bit of a moot point, because most people do not buy a $100k HSV to modify it.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Although I agree that 0 -100 is not the be all, as Bouka has said it is the standard benchmark for measuring vehicles by all manufactures of performance vehicles, so is relevant and important. Most people would prefer an all round fast car rather than just a straight line performer, but surely if these early times are accurate there has to be questions asked.
Before any figures started to appear, given the KW , Torque, Weight, suspension and tyres would you have been guessing at 4.7 ? or a quicker time given compariable vehicles.
If it was less then what is the explaination. Obviously Gt is underrated, but I sure hope the GTS is not overrated. We did see an early dyno of this engine and it seemed to be well down on what you would expect, and then with slower than predicted times got to start asking why. Yep 4.7 is still very fast and if it handles great even better and has full warranty ect, but what could the reasons be for these times.

Is engine management limiting power off the mark to protect the drive train. What have other vehicles such as MErc and BMW got that this doesn't.

I'm pretty sure the GT 335 improved heaps when the only modification was the removal of the torque limiters. No tuning or anything else, just removing limiters. If some one in the know can confirm this, then who's to say the new GTS isn't being limited in some ways too... It could mean the difference between a few tenths, or even more down the quarter mile.

[macca_779]

Going by that sort of logic, why don't you and I drive Evos then? I did consider that or an STi before getting my VZ. Lackluster styling, boring to commute in and expensive parts / maintenance (also not being a V8) were the deciding factors against for me.



Also agree re: parts on Euros and relative ease of reliable modification to LS engined cars. That said, for the target market of the GTS, it is a bit of a moot point, because most people do not buy a $100k HSV to modify it.

I tow with my car. That is all

[bozodos]

You could also tow (and probably better mind you) with a turbo diesel 4x4. Correct me if i'm wrong, but you don't buy a HSV then put a cam in it and tune it yourself simply for towing do you? Obviously there are other reasons, which is why you'd buy a GTS over something AWD and 'faster'.

[Vulture]

We did see an early dyno of this engine and it seemed to be well down on what you would expect, and then with slower than predicted times got to start asking why.

That dyno run was of a CTS-V with a much more restrictive exhaust system than the bimodal on the GTS AFAIK.
With the CTS-V running flat 12s, the GTS on a sticky drag strip can't be too much slower and almost certainly would be quicker around the 'ring with much more substantial brakes.
Remember on drag strip timing lights there is an 0.1s advantage from 'roll out' too compared with other ways of measurement.
I'm excited to see some results from an auto GTS at Willowbank or similar.

Would be good to see the GTS do around 4.4-4.5s 0-100 but really, a tenth here or there doesn't bother me and I am sure most GTS buyers will be the same.
That said, there should be no excuses if it doesn't perform in what is an important standard measure of acceleration.
Personally I am surprised they only put 275s on the rear, possible that is a limiting factor along with tyre compound. I would have thought 285-295 with this horsepower.
I don't think we will see any RWD large sedan going much below the 0-100 in less than 4.0 or thereabouts without purpose made tyres and track prep.

[team illucid]

Personally I am surprised they only put 275s on the rear, possible that is a limiting factor along with tyre compound. I would have thought 285-295 with this horsepower.
.

The Conti tyres grip really well - the 275 should be more than sufficient for grip.

[macca_779]

The Conti tyres grip really well - the 275 should be more than sufficient for grip.

Yep they should be a good tyre. Certainly an improvement over the Bridgestone oem tyres of old

[NickS]

Interesting re; the tyres ... my C63 came with Continental from the factory, first change I stuck with Conti, 2nd change I switched to Bridgestone (yes ... all that in less than 20,000 kms :lmao:)

IMO the Bridgestones grip better, feel better in the wet and so far seem to be lasting better ... I know another C63 owner using the same Bridgestones and finding the same thing.

Also ... every HSV I have owned since the E1 in 2006 has been switched to 285's on the rear at first change with no issues what so ever!

[mattnsw]

The other thing is that German cars tend to be highly strung and already close to their peak - there is no easy extraction of another 100KW without a massive investment.





Tell that to the Euro boys all over the world who know that not all Euros are highly strung and far from being close to their limit when with the same basic mods as usually done to a Commodore i.e. exhaust, CAI and tune they can achieve fantastic improvements.

The C63 is the same basic engine as the upper spec NA AMGs and all some owners do is just have the E63 factory tune thrown in to replace the C63 tune. Any easy 50kw.

Then from there it’s like modding all cars and becomes a matter of how deep is your pockets.
Supercharging C63 is becoming much more common now the kits are readily available.
Upgrading supercharger pulleys and turbos CAI and exhausts has been common on Mercs for years.
That’s why the supercharged E55 is one very fast car with minor mods.
And now AMG has gone turbo across the board, mods will be even easier.

People who can afford high end Euros and are interested in modding them can also afford the mods.

[Pickles]

That dyno run was of a CTS-V with a much more restrictive exhaust system than the bimodal on the GTS AFAIK.
With the CTS-V running flat 12s, the GTS on a sticky drag strip can't be too much slower and almost certainly would be quicker around the 'ring with much more substantial brakes.
Remember on drag strip timing lights there is an 0.1s advantage from 'roll out' too compared with other ways of measurement.
I'm excited to see some results from an auto GTS at Willowbank or similar.

Would be good to see the GTS do around 4.4-4.5s 0-100 but really, a tenth here or there doesn't bother me and I am sure most GTS buyers will be the same.
That said, there should be no excuses if it doesn't perform in what is an important standard measure of acceleration.
Personally I am surprised they only put 275s on the rear, possible that is a limiting factor along with tyre compound. I would have thought 285-295 with this horsepower.
I don't think we will see any RWD large sedan going much below the 0-100 in less than 4.0 or thereabouts without purpose made tyres and track prep.
0/100 less than 4 secs....ya'd be pretty right there.
The AWD E63 does it in 3.9 (in ideal conditions)...the E63 RWD is around half a second slower.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Brett240]

i just think its under-tyred. 275 rears are too small for tiny 0-100 times.

example is a 2005 C6 corvette - LS2 Engine, quarter mile in 12.7 seconds does 0-60mph ( not quite 100 kays ) in 4.3 seconds. lets call it 4.4 seconds over 62MPH ( 100 kays ). So its as quick as a GTS from 0 to 100, but loses half a second over the quarter? suggests it launches harder on its 295 series tyres.

the 7 litre Z06 and 6.2 supercharged C6 use 325 tryres, that would be more appropriate for the GTS

[Vulture]

the 7 litre Z06 and 6.2 supercharged C6 use 325 tryres, that would be more appropriate for the GTS

Not only that, they are much lighter than the GTS.

[bozodos]

Whilst I agree about wider tyres, you've gotta remember that the GTS isn't being positioned as a no compromises sports car like the Corvette either. It's more of a Cadillac type vehicle.

[Vulture]

Good point Bozodos, it's not an out and out sports car in the same way as those others you mentioned.

[Red CV8 R]

Interesting re; the tyres ... my C63 came with Continental from the factory, first change I stuck with Conti, 2nd change I switched to Bridgestone (yes ... all that in less than 20,000 kms :lmao:)

IMO the Bridgestones grip better, feel better in the wet and so far seem to be lasting better ... I know another C63 owner using the same Bridgestones and finding the same thing.

Also ... every HSV I have owned since the E1 in 2006 has been switched to 285's on the rear at first change with no issues what so ever!

Interesting. Different type of car I know but I have always had Bridgestones on my last two Holden's until a few years back I got a set of Toyo RA-1s, love these to bits and they make the Re001s on the front seem so very average, alas they no longer make these Toyo RA-1s so I was looking at getting Continentals because they are spoken about so highly!

[XUV]

Has anyone seen this yet LINK


I was trying to post the pic as they provide the URL.
this one?
http://www.motoring.com.au/carcontent/motoring/2013-HSV-GTS-infographic.jpg

[NickS]

Interesting. Different type of car I know but I have always had Bridgestones on my last two Holden's until a few years back I got a set of Toyo RA-1s, love these to bits and they make the Re001s on the front seem so very average, alas they no longer make these Toyo RA-1s so I was looking at getting Continentals because they are spoken about so highly!

Sorry ... I should point out that I'm using the Potenza S001.

[XUV]

The Conti tyres grip really well - the 275 should be more than sufficient for grip.
but at over $750.00 a tyre , I think we'll soon see a " recommend me a good (cheap) priced 275/35-20 tyre " thread very soon .

[team illucid]

but at over $750.00 a tyre , I think we'll soon see a " recommend me a good (cheap) priced 275/35-20 tyre " thread very soon .

Already cheaper than the Bridgestones :)

[mjrandom]

Not really sure what to make of the various reports. HSV have been guilty of overstating the performance with the E series. I don’t think anyone got near the supposed 5.0 seconds for the 0 – 100kph sprint. And yet with this model there are some suggestions that both the R8 and the SSV will get there or thereabouts under the right conditions. On that basis the GTS should be easily sub 4.5 seconds and maybe it will be again under the right conditions.

So as far as I can tell there has been one quoted time and that was for a manual GTS. Last time I looked there were still only two GTSs. The white automatic is a ‘production ready’ car for testing while the red manual was more of a mule with the GTS bits fitted up. Is there another manual doing the rounds? Again I would have thought that HSV would be concentrating on getting cars out to customers rather than make a few cars for thrashing by journalists, but then I could be wrong.

Like most who have a GTS on order and are waiting less and less patiently day by day I am not so concerned about the 0 – 100 time or even the standing 400m time because believe it or not I don’t do that every day. I try to give my R8 WOT for several seconds at some point every day just because I can but even that isn’t a given either.

Where does that leave us? Well I don’t think anyone can say for certain until there have been a few GTSs delivered and put on dynos and the track that we will see what is really going on. I dare say that even if the independent test said 4.2 seconds there would be plenty who would then say that HSV tweaked the car to get better than stated results. HSV cannot win.

As for the package being more important than outright performance I am one of those but it does sound like a cop out even to me when the GTS has 430kW and bulk torque, yes the GT is way understated but the others in that list above aren't. However Bouka is stepping from a GT to an R8 SV for more money there must be something in that. All I know is that each time I have bought an R8 I have tried the blue oval and apart from the raw power and silky smooth box that is the F6 and the superb engine /box that the GT has there is nothing else I am interested in living with. And with regards to the Euros the ones I could afford (scratch the M5, E63 or my favourite the CLS AMG) were too small and too harsh on the road.

So I will wait until mine arrives and I can see whether or not I have got value for my $103,032.61...

[JimmyXR6T04]

I remember reading an article about the GT 335 and it mentioned that for about 8 seconds or so it actually makes about 375kw, but due to it not making that power for sustained time (or at its peak or something) they didn't have to make it the official power rating.

This would certainly explain why it goes so well, and why they consistently dyno at ~320rwkw stock.

Regardless, i think HSV have done a fantastic job with the GTS. Imagine the insane pulling power when stomping on the gas from 70km/h or so...

[Ghosn]

I'm eagerly awaiting the R-Spec vs GTS reviews. Same day, same conditions. That should give us a good indicator how quick this thing really is.

[Troutman]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/vxr8

This is the new Vauxhall VXR8. Woof. Only this is it in its natural habitat of Australia, where it’s built and badged by Holden Special Vehicles

If you’re familiar with the previous VXR8 – which puts you in a particularly small minority – you’ll be blown away by the interior trim in here. It’s still among the roomiest saloons around (at 4988mm, the VXR8 is longer than a BMW 5-Series), but perceived material quality has been given a massive hike. There was a time when an imported HSV (the Monaro that is still slang for any of these cars), somewhere in the mid £30ks, was an outright performance bargain alongside European coupes and super-saloons.

The strength of Australia’s currency has put paid to that – the VXR8 GTS will cost £54,999 – but interior fit and finish has risen in line with the Australian dollar. Besides, compared to a BMW M5, a little the wrong side of £50k still looks like remarkably good value.

The technology count has been given a lift, too. Suspension’s by coil springs, but there are magnetorheological dampers of the latest-generation; quick to react and selectable in their stiffness parameters. There’s a “Driver Preference Dial” on the spangly centre console which, as you flick the settings through varying degrees of hardcore-ness, adjusts the stability control, electric power steering’s weight, exhaust sound and damper stiffness to suit.

The good thing is that it’s pretty easy to find a setting that works. Unlike, say, a big fast Audi, the VXR8’s body control is never poor, and neither is the ride. The tech has moved on, but that slightly old-fashioned, honest way it drives still underpins it. This is a pleasingly responsive car, straightforward and linear in the way it tells you what’s going on at the road.

It’s pleasurable to tool around at cruising speeds, riding that wave of torque, occasionally digging the throttle down to access some of that limitless poke and enjoy a trademark V8 backbeat, subdued as all these LS units seem to be, except at full throttle. It feels an easy car to live with.

What you really want, though, is space to enjoy it. Find that, and you’ll find this is a really good car. Okay, it’s not as composed as a BMW M3, but I’d pick one, to drive hard, over an M5. Genuinely. At times it might not feel as sophisticated, I grant you, and it’s a big old car, so it ain’t agile. But it is well balanced and rewarding.

The VXR8 has torque vectoring, braking an inside wheel to reduce understeer, but it only works in one of the chassis settings, and only if you’re on the power slightly: in other words, if you’re in a long sweeper, or being a bit hamfisted.

Better, instead, to ease down on the brakes towards a corner, keep them trailed in as you turn, to settle the nose and quell some of the inevitable understeer, and then get back on the gas. That’s how this car wants to be driven: the traditional, correct way. And driven like that, for a big saloon it’s particularly impressive. Oh, and if you want bit smokey skids? You can have them. Any time. It has cafeteria oversteer: help yourself.

It remains a physical car – the gearshift is meaty and the clutch deliberate – but that’s part of the appeal, too. It’s a big supersaloon, after all, not some kind of mid-point-pivoting, super agile rally replica or Germanic tech-fest.

It’s brawny and it’s as honest as ever, but behind it all, this latest-generation HSV is sufficiently advanced and luxurious that it feels so much more complete than before. So much more compelling that, if you’re in the market for a big fast car, you don’t have to choose a Vauxhall VXR8 because of the obvious, and compelling, reasons: because it’s a bargain; because there might never be another; and because if you don’t, who will? Good reasons all.

But there’s another reason. A better reason. You can choose one simply because it’s terrific.

[Plenty]

They're both forced induction 4 door performance cars aren't they.

Yes but i doubt it'll "pump" the GTS in the sprint!

[macca_779]

Yes but i doubt it'll "pump" the GTS in the sprint!

9 times out of 10 I think it would. AWD FTMFW

[Plenty]

9 times out of 10 I think it would. AWD FTMFW

Evo 0-100 4.7
GTS Unknown but mid 4's?

[korrupt]

The VXR8 has torque vectoring, braking an inside wheel to reduce understeer, but it only works in one of the chassis settings, and only if you’re on the power slightly: in other words, if you’re in a long sweeper, or being a bit hamfisted.

First time I've heard that. I thought torque vectoring was all hardware, didn't realize you could turn it on and off.

[bouka]

That's a pretty good review from autocar!

[Drizt]

Agreed, awesome review

[Troutman]

First time I've heard that. I thought torque vectoring was all hardware, didn't realize you could turn it on and off.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZtoO-eAvTw

[NickS]

Evo 0-100 4.7
GTS Unknown but mid 4's?

... and it's well known that you would never want to drive your own car in the manner needed to get top times out of an AWD!

[Vulture]

... and it's well known that you would never want to drive your own car in the manner needed to get top times out of an AWD!

Certainly not the high rpm clutch dropping launches of old.

[GTS LSA]

^^ yeah I could crack 4's in my old EVO (track based not on the street), but also blew one clutch and f*cked the gearbox over the course of 2 different track days, as said earlier they are awesome for what they are built for, certainly no GTS

[Pickles]

What is going to attract the majority of buyers to the GTS is "The Overall Package".
That is how we've bought our cars.....sure acceleration times are important.....it's nice to know how fast your car "could" go, if you were allowed, but which you are NOT, in the Nanny State.
The last couple of times we've bought new cars, we never even had a test drive, well, Wifey drove a C63 but I didn't(and after she'd driven it, she knew what she wanted too!)......I just knew that this what I wanted. I just knew I'd like it, & I do.
As far as acceleration is concerned it's great, but where can we use it? The best we can do is on a Country Road in the bush, where we sometimes stop the car, then flatten it....pretty good feeling for what 4.5 secs?!...So yes, the acceleration is good, but the overall package/driving experience/knowing what you're in, is far more important tou us.
Cheers, Pickles.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

you are spot on mate

[Ratsmow]

I also agree with your comments pickles, so why is it that we spend thousands on go quick bits to gain half a second on our 0-100 time and never really get to use it in the real world. Must be a mines bigger than yours bloke thing lol.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

Must be a mines bigger than yours bloke thing lol.

very very very true :lol::lol:

[bouka]

... and it's well known that you would never want to drive your own car in the manner needed to get top times out of an AWD!

Very true. Watched car mags launch wrx's of the grass at Calder many years ago to get better times as launching in that manner of the track hurt the cars.

[Vulture]

What is going to attract the majority of buyers to the GTS is "The Overall Package".

Far more than the 0-100km/h, I'm looking forward to riding the wave of torque through the gears every day, all in a factory standard, smooth package that has an imposing road presence. I went manual but I think it will also be a great package in auto.
Might even do a track day.

Fark, I am almost wishing I ordered one in 'regal peacock' that colour is looking more and more stunning.

[Pickles]

I also agree with your comments pickles, so why is it that we spend thousands on go quick bits to gain half a second on our 0-100 time and never really get to use it in the real world. Must be a mines bigger than yours bloke thing lol.
Exactly....I ask myself the same question. I've mentioned before, that being retired, Wifey & I like to get away to Country Victoria for a few days from time to time, eat in Pubs etc, & we DRIVE the car on some ripper roads, particularly in the Mallee....around Wycheproof/Birchip/Boort etc......bullet straight roads, NO traffic.....but apart from our 0/100 I mentioned...you can't do more than 100KS.....I've been tempted a few times, well actually I'm always tempted, but it's lucky I can resist...ya'd be amazed where a Police car can turn up?
So, in answer to your question, well all I can say is yes, sometimes it does all seem a bit pointless.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Drasius]

I reckon the GTS (or most sports cars these days) is probably a bit pointless if you describe "Bullet straight roads" as "ripper roads". I always thought that the straight bits were pretty boring and that a nice stretch of winding twisty road was a little slice of heaven.

[Ratsmow]

You wanna try some roads around albury, east of lake Hume. Around the lake Hume up to jingellic then across to corryong and back to albury, really picturesque winding roads with long straights thrown in, no lights no cops no traffic, well usually no cops. Bout 300 k round trip which you could do in a morning or stop at pubs along the way and take all day.
Now there's a good topic to start, best roads you've driven on and why, sorry didn't mean to go off topic.

[jaykay]

Fark, I am almost wishing I ordered one in 'regal peacock' that colour is looking more and more stunning.

The Regal Peacock is similar to my favourite HSV colour of all time....Sherbrooke Green. Cant wait to see a GTS on the road in this colour

[Pickles]

I reckon the GTS (or most sports cars these days) is probably a bit pointless if you describe "Bullet straight roads" as "ripper roads". I always thought that the straight bits were pretty boring and that a nice stretch of winding twisty road was a little slice of heaven.
I'm simply using them as an example...being "bullet straight"...you can see probably 20ks....so it's totally safe...that's the point I'm making, ie, it would be totally safe to drive well over 100ks...but ya can't.
Curvy/twisting roads....of course.....love 'em....that's why, when we go up there, which we do regularly, we don't go via the Highways, we go up via the likes of Romsey/Woodend/ Maldon/ Avoca/ St. Arnaud etc, where you can at least drive & steer the car, rather than sit, one behind the other at around 103ks on a major highway.
Cheers, Pickles.

[bouka]

The Regal Peacock is similar to my favourite HSV colour of all time....Sherbrooke Green. Cant wait to see a GTS on the road in this colour

I don't like it at all. I recently went through a dilemma on color for my sv and ended up where I started, Prussian steel.

[XUV]

The Regal Peacock is similar to my favourite HSV colour of all time....Sherbrooke Green. Cant wait to see a GTS on the road in this colour

Yeah, I always wanted my XUV in The British Racing Green that was offered.

[jaykay]

I don't like it at all. I recently went through a dilemma on color for my sv and ended up where I started, Prussian steel.

How is it coming along George ? Finished on the production line ?

[GTS LSA]

you guys should get out and do the odd track day, you dont have to drive your car like an idiot or even drive it that hard, just go out and legally speed

You will then try to push it a bit and have a ball

There are some great days run by the HSV club and others that are well run and some that are downright dangerous because of the dropkick factor... Just have to find a good sensible group

[bouka]

How is it coming along George ? Finished on the production line ?

Goes into build at hsv tomorrow. Should have it mid next week.

[Pickles]

Goes into build at hsv tomorrow. Should have it mid next week.
Mid next week?,,,,,Unreal....I didn't think any GTS's would be available until Sept.
Cheers, Pickles.

[68LS1]

Mid next week?,,,,,Unreal....I didn't think any GTS's would be available until Sept.
Cheers, Pickles.

I've been quoted Sept 16 for delivery, ordered in April

[bouka]

Mid next week?,,,,,Unreal....I didn't think any GTS's would be available until Sept.
Cheers, Pickles.

It's just an R8 SV Martin.

[Pickles]

It's just an R8 SV Martin.
"Just"??!!...When I visited HSV recently, I was given a drive of an R8...nothing "just" about it, nothing at all.....a very impressive machine.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Vulture]

Goes into build at hsv tomorrow. Should have it mid next week.

Any idea if they have started building the GTSs yet? We are all hanging out for ours!

[bouka]

Any idea if they have started building the GTSs yet? We are all hanging out for ours!

In the next week or so I believe Simon.

[NickS]

It's just an R8 SV Martin.

IMO the R8 SV is the pick of the bunch!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[LJCHSV]

IMO the R8 SV is the pick of the bunch!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

i agree Nicks & they'll be great buying too in a few months time when dealers can't move them from the floor!

[Vulture]

i agree Nicks & they'll be great buying too in a few months time when dealers can't move them from the floor!

Why would they be having trouble moving them?

[korrupt]

I could even live with the yellow badges...

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af295/korrupt/gts_1_zpsb8d23470.jpg

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af295/korrupt/gts_2_zps204876da.jpg

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af295/korrupt/gts_3_zpscfdfe494.jpg

No GTS badge on the front tho.

[GTS LSA]

:cool:

is that the one they had for the media? or someones delivery??

[NickS]

Man they look horn from the rear, I know some have bagged the rear bumpers but I love it!

I'm going to qualify my earlier comment on the R8 SV, the GTS is without doubt the pinnacle ... but for daily use, family trips, kids in and out, shopping centers etc. I would never get something like the GTS, the R8 SV looks to be the perfect balance of power, features, looks etc. Hence, from my point of view, the pick of the bunch.

[bouka]

Man they look horn from the rear, I know some have bagged the rear bumpers but I love it!

I'm going to qualify my earlier comment on the R8 SV, the GTS is without doubt the pinnacle ... but for daily use, family trips, kids in and out, shopping centers etc. I would never get something like the GTS, the R8 SV looks to be the perfect balance of power, features, looks etc. Hence, from my point of view, the pick of the bunch.

My logic as well. My cars are daily use approx 30k Klm a year. All things being equal, im very comfortable with my strategy and the SV will be a great daily.

[Vulture]

:love2: that is how mine will look but with the bigger wing.
Can't wait. Still think they should have had darker blackout in the headlights, though.

[bouka]

:love2: that is how mine will look but with the bigger wing.
Can't wait. Still think they should have had darker blackout in the headlights, though.

Saw that car in the metal last Thursday and was very impressed.

You will love it. No doubt at all.

[Pickles]

:love2: that is how mine will look but with the bigger wing.
Can't wait. Still think they should have had darker blackout in the headlights, though.
When have you been promised delivery Simon?
Cheers, Martin.

[Vulture]

When have you been promised delivery Simon?
Cheers, Martin.

Sept 11th is what they told me today.

[XUV]

The Yellow Calipers and centres on the Black wheels looks Ferrari esque and tre :cool:

[Vulture]

The Yellow Calipers and centres on the Black wheels looks Ferrari esque and tre :cool:

Yes, exactly what I was thinking when I was deciding which colour to get.

[jaykay]

When I was picking up my Calais V there was a fantale SV R8 just come back from a test drive...colour I do NOT like but the exhaust note sounded good. Wonder if it is a bit louder being the SV with the bimodal stuff ?

[Vulture]

When I was picking up my Calais V there was a fantale SV R8 just come back from a test drive...colour I do NOT like but the exhaust note sounded good. Wonder if it is a bit louder being the SV with the bimodal stuff ?

Yeah, Fantale might struggle in QLD. Too much of a taxi colour here. I heard the same was said for the yellow for other states.
I was very impressed with the exhaust sound of the R8 SV I saw also. So much so that an aftermarket exhaust won't be high priority.
As for a GTS as a daily driver, mine will be. Don't see any point hiding it from the world.

[mjrandom]

:love2: that is how mine will look but with the bigger wing.
Can't wait. Still think they should have had darker blackout in the headlights, though.

Hmmm the little wing looks good doesn't it Simon.......

The media cars have the wings swapped regularly. Same rego in various pics but different wings.

OK, the red looks alright. Even hot.

[Vulture]

Hmmm the little wing looks good doesn't it Simon........

It does.

Ultimately it is going to look great no matter what colour or wing it has I'd say.
I surprised myself ordering the bigger wing after having a Senator but I think it is also going to look great.

[XUV]

When I was picking up my Calais V there was a fantale SV R8 just come back from a test drive...colour I do NOT like but the exhaust note sounded good. Wonder if it is a bit louder being the SV with the bimodal stuff ?

they like the word Bi-Modal, as I see they have a Bi-Modal Air Intake, does this open and close at certain RPM'S ?

[GTS LSA]

Yeah, Fantale might struggle in QLD. Too much of a taxi colour here. I heard the same was said for the yellow for other states.
I was very impressed with the exhaust sound of the R8 SV I saw also. So much so that an aftermarket exhaust won't be high priority.
As for a GTS as a daily driver, mine will be. Don't see any point hiding it from the world.

Ditto on the daily driver, i will drive it every chance I get

[bouka]

When I was picking up my Calais V there was a fantale SV R8 just come back from a test drive...colour I do NOT like but the exhaust note sounded good. Wonder if it is a bit louder being the SV with the bimodal stuff ?

R8 sv gets gts exhaust and is different to r8 and normal clubbie.

Only two hotdogs and big x merge where as standard r8 has 4 hotdogs and balance pipe.

When you hear one next to a non sv the exhaust note is obviously different.

[bouka]

they like the word Bi-Modal, as I see they have a Bi-Modal Air Intake, does this open and close at certain RPM'S ?

Can't remember if vacuum or electronic. Have seen it outside the car as a separate unit and although relatively simple, still very impressive.

The combo of exhaust note and open bimodal intake sounds good.

[jaykay]

R8 sv gets gts exhaust and is different to r8 and normal clubbie.

Only two hotdogs and big x merge where as standard r8 has 4 hotdogs and balance pipe.

When you hear one next to a non sv the exhaust note is obviously different.

The exhaust on the SV sounds heaps better than my E3 GTS did stock.. Good to see HSV have worked it up :goodjob:

[bouka]

Enough about the gts as a daily, I was trying to convince myself!

I'm happy with the sv.....I'm happy with the sv.....I'm happy with the sv......

[csv rulz]

Enough about the gts as a daily, I was trying to convince myself!

I'm happy with the sv.....I'm happy with the sv.....I'm happy with the sv......

Bouka I was really surprised when I seen you didn't order a GTS. I thought you would be one of the first for sure.
When u test drove the R8SV how did it compare power wise to your GT?

[bouka]

Bouka I was really surprised when I seen you didn't order a GTS. I thought you would be one of the first for sure.
When u test drove the R8SV how did it compare power wise to your GT?

My strategy with the gts is to buy the last of. I will run the sv for a couple of years and then in 2015/16 buy the last gts or gt (if they do one). It puts me in prime position to see what's there (all things being equal). That's just my thoughts. The less expensive sv makes the depreciation easier to live with (I hope). It wasn't an easy decision and ALOT of thought went into it.

The sv is a great car. It has so much more than the gt (feature wise) and the forged allows and 340 spec motor etc are brilliant. It's the gts of the gen f range with the actual gts being elevated to a stand alone model (if you know what I mean).

Compared to gt? Power wise the gt is a clear winner. By how much? Well my brother has had his sv for 3 weeks and there will be performance comparisons before mine gets traded. I will let you know how it goes. The sv is not slow though, by any means.

The gt has a world class power train as you have experienced. I will, as with all my cars, take the sv for a drive to heatcote.

[GTS LSA]

My strategy with the gts is to buy the last of. I will run the sv for a couple of years and then in 2015/16 buy the last gts or gt (if they do one). It puts me in prime position to see what's there (all things being equal). That's just my thoughts. The less expensive sv makes the depreciation easier to live with (I hope). It wasn't an easy decision and ALOT of thought went into it.

The sv is a great car. It has so much more than the gt (feature wise) and the forged allows and 340 spec motor etc are brilliant. It's the gts of the gen f range with the actual gts being elevated to a stand alone model (if you know what I mean).

Compared to gt? Power wise the gt is a clear winner. By how much? Well my brother has had his sv for 3 weeks and there will be performance comparisons before mine gets traded. I will let you know how it goes. The sv is not slow though, by any means.

The gt has a world class power train as you have experienced. I will, as with all my cars, take the sv for a drive to heatcote.


I for one will be interested to hear a real world comparison, and as mentioned b4, I think your strategy is sound. No regrets go with your instinct

[offshore]

My strategy is to buy the VF series 2 GTS but also ill get the Corvette and Camaro if they come out in Australia. Pretty sure they will.

[adr8]

Can't remember if vacuum or electronic. Have seen it outside the car as a separate unit and although relatively simple, still very impressive.

Is the SV bi-modal intake the same as the ZL1 airbox? See pics in below link.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239651

[mjrandom]

Enough about the gts as a daily, I was trying to convince myself!

I'm happy with the sv.....I'm happy with the sv.....I'm happy with the sv......

Mine will be another daily driver, or I could walk instead. I don't think I will be walking... The r8 SV is really good. The GTS will just be.






Better.

[Pickles]

Can't remember if vacuum or electronic. Have seen it outside the car as a separate unit and although relatively simple, still very impressive.

The combo of exhaust note and open bimodal intake sounds good.
You probably wouldn't remember, but when Brock built his VL "Signature Series" in 1987, he designed a "similar" (not so hi tec of course!) system on the exhaust of that car....it was a vacuum type device, which when the throttle was opened, freed up the exhaust flow. It was always a bit "ify"..don't know whether is passed adrs/emissions etc....but that was Brock...he was never overly concerned aboput such issues!
Cheers, Pickles.

[bouka]

Mine will be another daily driver, or I could walk instead. I don't think I will be walking... The r8 SV is really good. The GTS will just be.






Better.

Better by some distance mike.

How good is it when a package as good as the sv is considered sub par to the gts.

We live in exciting times as performance car enthusiasts.

[bouka]

You probably wouldn't remember, but when Brock built his VL "Signature Series" in 1987, he designed a "similar" (not so hi tec of course!) system on the exhaust of that car....it was a vacuum type device, which when the throttle was opened, freed up the exhaust flow. It was always a bit "ify"..don't know whether is passed adrs/emissions etc....but that was Brock...he was never overly concerned aboput such issues!
Cheers, Pickles.

I had just hit my teens Martin!

I do remember the brocky days fondly. Although young, I was raised a car enthusiast and drooled over the neighbours vk Calais director.

I was lucky to have been immediately surrounded by the cream of Aussie muscle cars as a kid. I suppose that's what makes me such a supporter of our local product (and I can tell you, it hasn't always been easy).

I am fully aware of your support and admiration of all things local as well mate and take my hat of to you (except for the little German hot rod of course!).

No doubt you could educate me on the older stuff (and my knowledge is very good).

[mjrandom]

As much as I am eager for my GTS I did take the chance to drive in a manual R8SV. I was quite surprised. The 340kW it makes shouldn't be any different to my E2 and for all practical purposes a few less. It didn't drive like that. Sure manual vs auto but it still felt stronger down low with more oomph. Some of that must be a result of the electric power steering but the torque curve is different. I didn't get the chance to do anything other than feel what it was like but I would be happy enough with an SV I think. Certainly getting back into the E2 after all the toys in the SV was a let down. Plain Jane compared to Miss Universe! Anyway I don't think anyone will be disappointed with any of the Gen Fs. I know there is a fine line between the stock Clubbie and the SSV Redline and I think I would probably err on the side of the Redline (only because I think the standard Clubsport wheels are a very useful and practical emetic) but either way good bits of kit.

On colour I picked Heron because I have already had a Nitrate HSV and #1 sons Cruze diesel is Nitrate. I also have a gravel driveway so ease of cleaning is important and the darker colours (even Karma) are harder work though the end product after a day of toil is worthwhile. I would have ordered Prussian Steel if I had know what it was really like but I was given a bum steer that it was more or less the same colour as the old Evoke with a tint of brown which I didn't like.

Then lst week I saw the royal peacock green on an R8SV and I have to say that would now be my first choice and if I could have changed I would. Still more than happy with the white but the satin black accents on the dark metallic green look wondrous. And since those are the wheels and spoiler I ordered I think it would look superb with those tiny brakes and yellow calipers ;)

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/mjrandom/peacock2_zps5d5f2c20.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/mjrandom/media/peacock2_zps5d5f2c20.jpg.html)

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/mjrandom/peacock1_zpsb462e293.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/mjrandom/media/peacock1_zpsb462e293.jpg.html)

Phone pics so quality is very average. And it goes against my philosophy of easy clean and not too hot in summer. Ah well lust is like that.

[Vulture]

Phone pics so quality is very average. And it goes against my philosophy of easy clean and not too hot in summer. Ah well lust is like that.

*&#! that looks stunning!
I'll change my order if you do haha.

[mjrandom]

I tried! Honestly, the salesman even rang to find out where the build was at. Tooooo late by about a week.

[bouka]

Their is definitely more oomph in the sv (340 motor) than the other ls3 versions. Noticeably so.

I love the look in the photos of the color, but the ones I have seen in the flesh didn't really do much for me.

White will look brilliant in the gts and I struggled to decide between it and Prussian steel. So much so I delayed my car whilst trying to decide!

They really are a big step above e series and a massive step above my gt from every viewpoint except drive line.

Tonight the gt and sv meet head to head. Lets see what happens.

[team illucid]

So even with the same power it is different? Perhaps they have changed the cam again ?

[bouka]

So even with the same power it is different? Perhaps they have changed the cam again ?

Bimodal intake, different exhaust and cal to match. Feels better than 317 and 325 versions. Not miles ahead but does feel stronger. Internals the same.

340kw and 570nm.

Interestingly, it is the highest spec ls3 anywhere in the the gm world.

[Pickles]

I had just hit my teens Martin!

I do remember the brocky days fondly. Although young, I was raised a car enthusiast and drooled over the neighbours vk Calais director.

I was lucky to have been immediately surrounded by the cream of Aussie muscle cars as a kid. I suppose that's what makes me such a supporter of our local product (and I can tell you, it hasn't always been easy).

I am fully aware of your support and admiration of all things local as well mate and take my hat of to you (except for the little German hot rod of course!).

No doubt you could educate me on the older stuff (and my knowledge is very good).
"VK Calais Director"?
I actually knew Brock pretty well..we knew each other on a first name basis, he was the same age as me, & I was involved in Sports Sedan racing in the late sixties....when he was racing the A30.
I bought the most expensive VK Director ever made....from the 1st owner...it was Tuxedo black, leather scheel interior,T5, improved output engine, sunroof, BBS wheels (the ONLY HDT fitted with these from factory!), a pretty special car....cost $48K in 1985!!!....been the subject of a few magazine articles.
The "Holden Dealer Team"....Those were the days!
I could tell you lots of things about PB...."Peter Perfect"???....NO WAY.
Cheers, Pickles.

[bouka]

"VK Calais Director"?
I actually knew Brock pretty well..we knew each other on a first name basis, he was the same age as me, & I was involved in Sports Sedan racing in the late sixties....when he was racing the A30.
I bought the most expensive VK Director ever made....from the 1st owner...it was Tuxedo black, leather scheel interior,T5, improved output engine, sunroof, BBS wheels (the ONLY HDT fitted with these from factory!), a pretty special car....cost $48K in 1985!!!....been the subject of a few magazine articles.
The "Holden Dealer Team"....Those were the days!
I could tell you lots of things about PB...."Peter Perfect"???....NO WAY.
Cheers, Pickles.

I met Peter on drive day the dealership I bought my vy clubbie from organised at Calder park. It was the first time I met him and he spent the day with us. I have many signed team Brock hats and laminated posters of brocky cars. It was a great day and he and I got along very well. My very small claim to fame, lol.

He wouldn't have a clue who i was if he was still with us. I'm not afraid to say I shed a tear the day he passed.

We should catch up one day. I would love to listen to your history and knowledge mate. In return, you can have free range of my wine collection for the night (sounds fancier than it is).

[Pickles]

I met Peter on drive day the dealership I bought my vy clubbie from organised at Calder park. It was the first time I met him and he spent the day with us. I have many signed team Brock hats and laminated posters of brocky cars. It was a great day and he and I got along very well. My very small claim to fame, lol.

He wouldn't have a clue who i was if he was still with us. I'm not afraid to say I shed a tear the day he passed.

We should catch up one day. I would love to listen to your history and knowledge mate. In return, you can have free range of my wine collection for the night (sounds fancier than it is).
"Free range of your wine collection"??!!...ha ha ha...a VERY dangerous statement......just had my tea....medium rare eye fillet & a good red..plus a few champagnes before hand!!
"P.B."??..I remember one night, he came to talk to the HSVOC, and as you would no doubt know, he only ate"healthy" food (yeah right)...anyway he had this pizza he'd bought with him,....I said, "Brock, ya can't eat that stuff"... He said, "oh, it's Ok Martin, there's no fat in it"!....Yeah right.....Like I said, he DEFINITELY wasn't "Peter perfect", but just before he passed away, he was just starting to enjoy the occasional ( & not so occasional) red again. Very sad.
Cheers, Pickles.

[bozodos]

"VK Calais Director"?
I actually knew Brock pretty well..we knew each other on a first name basis, he was the same age as me, & I was involved in Sports Sedan racing in the late sixties....when he was racing the A30.
I bought the most expensive VK Director ever made....from the 1st owner...it was Tuxedo black, leather scheel interior,T5, improved output engine, sunroof, BBS wheels (the ONLY HDT fitted with these from factory!), a pretty special car....cost $48K in 1985!!!....been the subject of a few magazine articles.
The "Holden Dealer Team"....Those were the days!
I could tell you lots of things about PB...."Peter Perfect"???....NO WAY.
Cheers, Pickles.

That's pretty cool Pickles, should spin that off into its own thread, I used to be OBSESSED with HDTs as a kid. Showing your age though haha.

[bouka]

Well, well, well..................

The gt and sv have played. The result is a little hard to comprehend.

In auto-performance mode at rolling start from about 30kmh it was a non event. Whilst the sv decided what gear it wanted the gt put daylight between the two.

When the sv was in full manual mode, the gt never once had an advantage. Not once!

I am a little surprised. A lot really. A little lost for words.

I don't expect the sv to run a 12.5 at 114 but gee it surprised the gt under the conditions and limitations we explored (all on private road on a 1000acre farm).

Hsv, I hope your listening. If my sv does not go as well as my brothers, I WILL be returning it!

[mjrandom]

Dyno sheet needed!!!!!! Explains why the 340 felt stronger than a, um, tuned, um 317.

[bouka]

Dyno sheet needed!!!!!! Explains why the 340 felt stronger than a, um, tuned, um 317.

The gt will have an advantage on dyno. By a fair amount I would suggest. There is either something wrong with gt, or ......

Perspective is needed, it wasn't a full on 1/4 mile but it wasn't a little fun at the lights either. And it happened on several occasions.

It is by no means the be all and end all, just a very limited and little experiment.

[Vulture]

Gearing?
Maybe these 340kw cars are making more than 340kw?
Either way, exciting news! Sounds like they should be a fair bit quicker than an SS (as they should be for the extra spend)

On another note the GTS has 3.7:1 final drive in manual form :burnout:

[adr8]

GTS video, stock exhaust note from inside the cabin sounds pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzKkqvVJTag&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[jaykay]

Real GTS for a real price......

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u164/jkgmh/image_zps332da6f4.jpg (http://s168.photobucket.com/user/jkgmh/media/image_zps332da6f4.jpg.html)

[mjrandom]

My BIL still has his HQ GTS. I have challenged him to a race when I get mine!

[Alex(AUS)]

Well, well, well..................

The gt and sv have played. The result is a little hard to comprehend.

In auto-performance mode at rolling start from about 30kmh it was a non event. Whilst the sv decided what gear it wanted the gt put daylight between the two.

When the sv was in full manual mode, the gt never once had an advantage. Not once!

I am a little surprised. A lot really. A little lost for words.

I don't expect the sv to run a 12.5 at 114 but gee it surprised the gt under the conditions and limitations we explored (all on private road on a 1000acre farm).

Hsv, I hope your listening. If my sv does not go as well as my brothers, I WILL be returning it!

If the SV can hold on to about 170km/h that would be super impressive.

Video required.

Alex

[GTS LSA]

GTS video, stock exhaust note from inside the cabin sounds pretty good.



Shame they were so limited in what they could do, i would have been too tempted and let the other 2 get ahead the length of the straight, then given it the bejesus!:astavista:

[evil_ss]

Can anyone confirm if straight line and or track times have been released for the GTS yet? I still use it as a factor when comparing my next car purchases.

[LJCHSV]

Well, well, well..................

The gt and sv have played. The result is a little hard to comprehend.

In auto-performance mode at rolling start from about 30kmh it was a non event. Whilst the sv decided what gear it wanted the gt put daylight between the two.

When the sv was in full manual mode, the gt never once had an advantage. Not once!

I am a little surprised. A lot really. A little lost for words.

I don't expect the sv to run a 12.5 at 114 but gee it surprised the gt under the conditions and limitations we explored (all on private road on a 1000acre farm).

Hsv, I hope your listening. If my sv does not go as well as my brothers, I WILL be returning it!

Gee, It's amazing how many farms are out there with quality bitumen quarter mile private roads???.... If you go by any car forums these days, there about as common as assholes :driving::driving::burnout:

[mjrandom]

Gee, It's amazing how many farms are out there with quality bitumen quarter mile private roads???.... If you go by any car forums these days, there about as common as assholes :driving::driving::burnout:


I've got one of each...

[bozodos]

yeah well you wouldn't do any sort of performance testing on a public road surely

[bouka]

I've got one of each...

And thanks for letting me use it mike!

[Vulture]

Nice comparison of the GTS and the FPV GT R Spec from the carsales website (as an iPad download).
They loved the GTS (in red like mine).
It did a 12.7 on a wet road test 0-400m, the FPV did a 13.4 run.

LINK (http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2013/out-now-motoring-ipad-app-53-38226)

[SV805]

I Think Wheels is out NExt week 21st And would expect a comparison with Merc.

[macca_779]

Nice comparison of the GTS and the FPV GT R Spec from the carsales website (as an iPad download).
They loved the GTS (in red like mine).
It did a 12.7 on a wet road test 0-400m, the FPV did a 13.4 run.

LINK (http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2013/out-now-motoring-ipad-app-53-38226)

Impressive effort for the GTS in the wet. These new continental tyres are clearly a good thing.

[adr8]

GTS vs GT R-Spec 0-400m video

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=617888941577544&set=vb.208393055860470&type=2&theater

[GTS LSA]

GTS vs GT R-Spec 0-400m video

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=617888941577544&set=vb.208393055860470&type=2&theater

saw that on the other carsales app link posted previously... really want to see it in the dry

[Vulture]

GTS vs GT R-Spec 0-400m video

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=617888941577544&set=vb.208393055860470&type=2&theater

There were some pretty stupid comments after that video on the Facebook page, like 'my stock F6 did blah blah'. It was a wet track FFS!

Looks like fuel usage is going to be pretty high as well (not that I care). Will depend a lot on the right foot I suppose.

[GTS LSA]

There were some pretty stupid comments after that video on the Facebook page, like 'my stock F6 did blah blah'. It was a wet track FFS!

Looks like fuel usage is going to be pretty high as well (not that I care). Will depend a lot on the right foot I suppose.

Re facbook I thought the same, re stupid comments, so didnt bother reading on, there will always be someone looking to put it down, usually those that couldnt afford one anyway

I never bother looking at fuel consumption numbers, I dont really care, i will be buying it to enjoy it, and if that costs me an extre $20 a week then its money well spent

[XUV]

hey, What size supercharger is on this?
as I can't remember reading the size, all they say is that it's an Eaton.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

hey, What size supercharger is on this?
as I can't remember reading the size, all they say is that it's an Eaton.

and what boost ?

[GTS LSA]

Cant remember the size but i think i recall reading only running 9% boost but dont quote me on it

[Jag530G]

hey, What size supercharger is on this?
as I can't remember reading the size, all they say is that it's an Eaton.

1.9L for the LSA, 2.3L for the LS9.

Cheers, Matthew

[Vulture]

A lazy 9psi boost.
Will be looking forward to seeing the results from the first to overdrive the supercharger. the yanks are getting enormous numbers with a cam, overdrive pulley and exhaust. Not sure I'll be doing anything to it for quite a while.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

LOOKS LIKE 9 psi from a 1.9 lt blower
some LSA / ZL1 in fo here
fair gain from just a pulley change and retune

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/ghtp_1204_6_2_liter_lsa_engine_zl1_in_sheeps_cloth ing/viewall.html


http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/ghtp_1204_6_2_liter_lsa_engine_zl1_in_sheeps_cloth ing/photo_01.html

[XUV]

A lazy 9psi boost.
Will be looking forward to seeing the results from the first to overdrive the supercharger. the yanks are getting enormous numbers with a cam, overdrive pulley and exhaust. Not sure I'll be doing anything to it for quite a while.

well they do have to give a warranty ............ after warranty it will be insane ..... er ;)

[jaykay]

A lazy 9psi boost.
Will be looking forward to seeing the results from the first to overdrive the supercharger. the yanks are getting enormous numbers with a cam, overdrive pulley and exhaust. Not sure I'll be doing anything to it for quite a while.

" Not sure I'll be doing anything to it for quite a while. " :lmao:

[Vulture]

" Not sure I'll be doing anything to it for quite a while. " :lmao:

I mean it this time! :hitler:

[jaykay]

I mean it this time! :hitler:

It is in writing now.....:teach:

[JimmyXR6T04]

The new GTS is looking very impressive. Not only is it a brute on power, but it actually looks like it can corner and take the GTS that next step forward, not to mention the interior etc...

I'm eagerly awaiting what ford do with the GT and FH. I'm hoping it has the same sort of tech etc plus improved interior, but about 70-75k drive away... Either way, i'm not really swaying one way or the other at this stage, so i'll be happy with either! I guess it depends how much cheaper the GT is over the GTS...

[701let]

The new GTS is looking very impressive. Not only is it a brute on power, but it actually looks like it can corner and take the GTS that next step forward, not to mention the interior etc...

I'm eagerly awaiting what ford do with the GT and FH. I'm hoping it has the same sort of tech etc plus improved interior, but about 70-75k drive away... Either way, i'm not really swaying one way or the other at this stage, so i'll be happy with either! I guess it depends how much cheaper the GT is over the GTS...

Mate stop looking for a reason to buy a gt when the gts is so good and better at every point! They aren't going to load up the next gt on tech and features when it is a dead model! Go the GTS! 👍

[jaykay]

Mate stop looking for a reason to buy a gt when the gts is so good and better at every point! They aren't going to load up the next gt on tech and features when it is a dead model! Go the GTS! ��

And you know this because you work at Ford? Maybe they will go out with a bang :idea:

[jc_sv8]

Get it to the ring!!!! I want to see a 7:30!!!

[Jamolad]

Who knows - stuff like these posts on AFF make no sense but that does not mean there may not be some accuracy in them...


We got the word today from Ford that the GT is finished at the end of the year and there will be no GT in 2014.

The V8 engine plant that was just installed in at the production plant
is to be disassembled as well.

So the 2014 XR8 that's coming sounds like it will be engine brought in from US like the 3V was.. So it might be N/A.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpost.php?p=4850761&postcount=28


Guys I hope that we are wrong, but our source is Gold. If we are wrong I apologize, but unfortunately the guy who told be also predicted the fall of FPV, the end (and the return)of the XR8, and Ford halting production here.

Being the closest tune shop to Ford has always had its advantages in its relationships, this news gives us no pleasure at all. Again, I hope he is wrong, but he is 5 from 5 so far.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpost.php?p=4851091&postcount=54

Doesn't make sense to drop the 5.0 SC...but then I guess it depends which hi-po Mustang is offered here if Falcon and Mustang are going to overlap for a year or two, because they would not want the Falcon GT to outperform the Mustang or represent better bang for buck?

[Pickles]

The new GTS is looking very impressive. Not only is it a brute on power, but it actually looks like it can corner and take the GTS that next step forward, not to mention the interior etc...

I'm eagerly awaiting what ford do with the GT and FH. I'm hoping it has the same sort of tech etc plus improved interior, but about 70-75k drive away... Either way, i'm not really swaying one way or the other at this stage, so i'll be happy with either! I guess it depends how much cheaper the GT is over the GTS...
I have been stressing the "tech stuff" on board the GTS for months....ie, it ain't just an engine.....anyone that buys one will know all about it....but there's that much of it, I can't remember. That is why this car will be far superior to the GT, because of all the R/D, testing etc done by HSV on the rest of the car to support the engine.......so I agree with you when you say "take the GTS that next step forward". It will be way in front of the GT/R Spec, where Ford produced a weapon (NO DOUBT!)of an engine let down by the rest of the car.
With what is going on at Ford, and with the Falcon etc, I can't see much new stuff for the GT. I mean, d'you think Ford would spend the money?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Vulture]

I have been stressing the "tech stuff" on board the GTS for months....ie, it ain't just an engine.....

Yep, and FPV are simply not going to be able to compete unless they import something directly form the US.

[GTS LSA]

I mean, d'you think Ford would spend the money?
Cheers, Pickles.

Agreed, no way in the current climate would you spend millions developing a "dead horse" (read why flog a dead horse) up to better than GTS spec

Ford will try to sell as many as they can with sticker kits and R badging and good on them if people will buy em.

They will then bring out the Mustang which looks awesome and I would love a 500 kw Shelby Super Snake..... But the next Mustang wont look like the tough current one, it will be a softened down look if what I have read is anything to go by...

[jaykay]

Agreed, no way in the current climate would you spend millions developing a "dead horse" (read why flog a dead horse) up to better than GTS spec

Ford will try to sell as many as they can with sticker kits and R badging and good on them if people will buy em.

They will then bring out the Mustang which looks awesome and I would love a 500 kw Shelby Super Snake..... But the next Mustang wont look like the tough current one, it will be a softened down look if what I have read is anything to go by...

Off topic but was just reading your Signature.....Saw Skaifey and Derryn Hinch on Sunday Night last night and Skaifey was driving a Porsche SUV......you might need to update it :lol:

[GTS LSA]

Off topic but was just reading your Signature.....Saw Skaifey and Derryn Hinch on Sunday Night last night and Skaifey was driving a Porsche SUV......you might need to update it :lol:

Yeah i saw that too, I know he has been out of it for a while, but still seems weird not seeing him in a HSV

[planetdavo]

And you know this because you work at Ford? Maybe they will go out with a bang :idea:

I do remember reading a quote from a senior Ford person saying the update to the FG would not have the tech of VF. The main reason VF has so much tech is because of the US imports about to happen.
I could probably ask my next door neighbour after a few beers though. He's an engineer within that company... :hide:

[Vulture]

Argh, the wait is getting harder and harder....

TGA video LINK (http://www.topgear.com/au/car-news/hsv-gts-burnout-viewa)

[GTS LSA]

Yep...and when u get yours, I will still have another 2 months... If I'm lucky:cussing:

[JimmyXR6T04]

Mate stop looking for a reason to buy a gt when the gts is so good and better at every point! They aren't going to load up the next gt on tech and features when it is a dead model! Go the GTS! ��

Even if they don't load up on tech with the new GT (if there is a new GT!), i'm still interested in waiting to see what happens. Whilst the GTS is a great bit of kit, i'm not sure it's ~40k better.. Obviously i'm comparing a demo GT to a new RRP GTS, but that's what my options are at this stage... I'm a sentimental bloke, so part of me would love one of the last FPV GTs, or if Ford make one next year then i'd love one of the last ever GTs with the 5.0L engine...

Wife has already agreed that if i buy a demo GT, then down the track i can leave it as a weekend car and get the GTS (by then i'd hope to get a low km one for under 80k)... Best of both worlds, so i sort of have a method to my madness. Knowing me though, i'll end up just trading the GT for a GTS after 4 years or so... So maybe i should just get the GTS first up...

At the end of the day, i'll be using my own cash to fund either purchase, so it's a huge decision and not one i want to make lightly... if i can get a GT for 60k, and throw in some suspension, wider wheels/tyres and a tune, it's going to be an absolute performance bargain with plenty of money left over... Or, i could spend the extra and get it all from the factory in the GTS... I'm in no rush though, i'll wait and see what happens next year before i rush in.


I have been stressing the "tech stuff" on board the GTS for months....ie, it ain't just an engine.....anyone that buys one will know all about it....but there's that much of it, I can't remember. That is why this car will be far superior to the GT, because of all the R/D, testing etc done by HSV on the rest of the car to support the engine.......so I agree with you when you say "take the GTS that next step forward". It will be way in front of the GT/R Spec, where Ford produced a weapon (NO DOUBT!)of an engine let down by the rest of the car.
With what is going on at Ford, and with the Falcon etc, I can't see much new stuff for the GT. I mean, d'you think Ford would spend the money?
Cheers, Pickles.

No doubting it mate, it's an absolute gem of a car. I'm hoping that the FH Falcon would have been in the pipeline long before they decided to shut up shop in Aus, unless they already knew long ago that this decision was coming?

Either way, it won't hurt me to hold on to my WM Caprice for a little longer, it's a sweet car. I don't want to fork out 100k just yet, especially if ford were to ever bring out another GTHO (dreams, i know) but you never know!

To be honest, i really have no idea which way i want to go! I will say this though, if the GTS was priced around 75-80k mark driveaway, i don't think i'd even consider the GT (sentimental bloke or not)... So, maybe i should just cough up more for the GTS. But, owning the last of GT would feel special to me, so i'm sort of torn.

[Pickles]

Jimmy. No doubt a "final hurrah" GTHO would be awesome...400+ KW....and launched by Moff...How good would that be?
I am the biggest Allan Moffat fan in the world....there has NEVER been a Ford driver in Aus who pushed the product like he did....he did a good job with FPV too...the Dealers loved him.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Vulture]

...How good would that be?
I am the biggest Allan Moffat fan in the world.....

He was a humble guy too. I remember hearing those ear-splitting RX-7s at Amaroo Park years ago too (or was it Oran Park?).

[seldo]

He was a humble guy too. I remember hearing those ear-splitting RX-7s at Amaroo Park years ago too (or was it Oran Park?).
Humble??? Humble???!! :lmao: He was/is an arrogant prick of the first order!

[NickS]

Humble??? Humble???!! :lmao: He was/is an arrogant prick of the first order!

Hmmmm ... what to believe, the personality projected across the TV or someone who would have known the real Moffat ???

:stick:

[bouka]

Humble??? Humble???!! :lmao: He was/is an arrogant prick of the first order!

What he said!

[Pickles]

Hmmmm ... what to believe, the personality projected across the TV or someone who would have known the real Moffat ???

:stick:
I actually knew/know Moff quite well. He is a very "intense" sort of person, but I guess it would be fair to say that on some occasions he has been his own worst enemy.
Away from the track, he is a completely different sort of person.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Peter B - CV8]

I actually knew/know Moff quite well. He is a very "intense" sort of person, but I guess it would be fair to say that on some occasions he has been his own worst enemy.
Away from the track, he is a completely different sort of person.
Cheers, Pickles.

Like a good wine, I think he's mellowed with time. In fact, over recent years he's almost friendly - a far cry from the brash & know it all yank of the 70's/80's.

[Vulture]

Like a good wine, I think he's mellowed with time. In fact, over recent years he's almost friendly - a far cry from the brash & know it all yank of the 70's/80's.

Isn't he Canadian?

[seldo]

Hmmmm ... what to believe, the personality projected across the TV or someone who would have known the real Moffat ???

:stick:
I won't elaborate as it will only take the thread way O/T.
Ok troops...at ease...

[jaykay]

What is this thread about ? :confused:...not Alan Moffatt. Maybe start a thread on his trials and tribulations if that way inclined....

[NickS]

What is this thread about ? :confused:...not Alan Moffatt. Maybe start a thread on his trials and tribulations if that way inclined....

I'm still waiting for the day that someone refuses to continue talking to me because we strayed from the original topic ... :lmao:

You mods are all the same! Sorry chief ... back on topic. :thumbsup:

[XUV]

What is this thread about ? :confused:...not Alan Moffatt. Maybe start a thread on his trials and tribulations if that way inclined....
the top of the page not doing it's job

[zorro]

So has anyone driven a GTS yet or are we still waffling on about what may be?

[GTS LSA]

^ All maybe's, hopes and wet dreams here:driving:

[BigAnt]

Carsales comparison between FPV GT R-spec and Gen-F GTS - apologies if its a re-post

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/comparison/ford-performance-vehicles/fpv-gt-r-spec-vs--hsv-gts-2013--comparison-38244

[mjrandom]

I was going to say: Yes, traction is incredible, mind blowing acceleration and lateral grip. Brakes are unbelievable. Fuel consumption and tyre wear negligible. And then the alarm went off. But GTS LSA beat me to it.

[adr8]

A couple of GTS vids

http://www.topgear.com/au/car-news/hsv-gts-burnout-viewa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvKj6dVAQz8

[Pickles]

When are we going to be able to read the first full blown road test in an Aussie Motoring Mag..Motor/Wheels etc?
Cheers, Pickles.

[Vulture]

Another vid from Toby Hagan. Here you go Michael, all white for you.


http://youtu.be/Uq2rcFw2Tl0

[GTS LSA]

^ had a look at that the other day. not bad

off topic....... pet hate - any drive tester who doesn't have 2 hands on the wheel.... or leaning on the window/ door frame.... 1st thing explained to you at nearly any driver training... just annoys the hell out of me... cant explain why... maybe a bit OCD:demon:

[Plenty]

Apparently the Gen F GTS just got spanked by 0.6sec over the 1/4 mile by the new AMG E63 S. The GTS pulled a 12.7 in the wet for the test against the FPV GT r-spec, the AMG must be near on into the 11's.

[jaykay]

Apparently the Gen F GTS just got spanked by 0.6sec over the 1/4 mile by the new AMG E63 S. The GTS pulled a 12.7 in the wet for the test against the FPV GT r-spec, the AMG must be near on into the 11's.

Our tech department’s educated guess predicts that the E63 can hit 60 mph in 3.4 seconds, the S in 3.3, and either version can complete a quarter-mile blitzkrieg in fewer than 12 seconds.

PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 3.3–3.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.2–8.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.8–11.9 sec
Top speed: 155–186 mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

So your comment about 0.6sec rings reasonable for a 12.4 / 12.5 - 1/4 for the GTS in the dry...

[NickS]

off topic....... pet hate - any drive tester who doesn't have 2 hands on the wheel.... or leaning on the window/ door frame.... 1st thing explained to you at nearly any driver training... just annoys the hell out of me... cant explain why... maybe a bit OCD:demon:

Agreed ... straight line on a freeway you could MAYBE understand, but that's poor form on a track!

[Pickles]

Our tech department’s educated guess predicts that the E63 can hit 60 mph in 3.4 seconds, the S in 3.3, and either version can complete a quarter-mile blitzkrieg in fewer than 12 seconds.

PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 3.3–3.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.2–8.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.8–11.9 sec
Top speed: 155–186 mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

So your comment about 0.6sec rings reasonable for a 12.4 / 12.5 - 1/4 for the GTS in the dry...
I reckon 0/60 in 3.4 for the RWD car is optimistic.....I've read 3.9 for the AWD car....I'll do some checking!!
Cheers, Pickles.

[Plenty]

Our tech department’s educated guess predicts that the E63 can hit 60 mph in 3.4 seconds, the S in 3.3, and either version can complete a quarter-mile blitzkrieg in fewer than 12 seconds.

PERFORMANCE (C/D EST):
Zero to 60 mph: 3.3–3.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.2–8.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.8–11.9 sec
Top speed: 155–186 mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

So your comment about 0.6sec rings reasonable for a 12.4 / 12.5 - 1/4 for the GTS in the dry...

Yeah those times are for an AWD E63??? but this is an Australian RWD car vs the GTS.

Here is the LINK (http://motoring.syd.ninemsn.com.au/cars/news/8709991/vw-golf-r-hot-hatch-gets-supercar-performance?mode=preview) to the small article.

I'm still tipping the AMG pulled a very very low 12 as one would imagine the GTS would drop at least a few 1/10 in the dry. Obviously depends on driver and transmission of course.

[korrupt]

When are we going to be able to read the first full blown road test in an Aussie Motoring Mag..Motor/Wheels etc?
Cheers, Pickles.

Get down to your newsagent, Pickles. The latest Wheels has the GTS vs E63 S. Looks like a good article.

0 - 100km/h - GTS 4.7 AMG 4.3
0 - 400m - GTS 12.8 @ 183.2km/h AMG 12.2 @ 195.9km/h

Photo on the bottom of page 92 makes me think they should have fitted two bonnet struts...

[jaykay]

Get down to your newsagent, Pickles. The latest Wheels has the GTS vs E63 S. Looks like a good article.

0 - 100km/h - GTS 4.7 AMG 4.3
0 - 400m - GTS 12.8 @ 183.2km/h AMG 12.2 @ 195.9km/h

Photo on the bottom of page 92 makes me think they should have fitted two bonnet struts...

Wet road ?

[Pickles]

Get down to your newsagent, Pickles. The latest Wheels has the GTS vs E63 S. Looks like a good article.

0 - 100km/h - GTS 4.7 AMG 4.3
0 - 400m - GTS 12.8 @ 183.2km/h AMG 12.2 @ 195.9km/h

Photo on the bottom of page 92 makes me think they should have fitted two bonnet struts...
Latest Wheels I've got is August..with orange Mustang on the front cover....Aug 2013)...you have later?
September Motor has the AWD 412KW Audi RS7 doing it in 3.9, which they say, is quicker than the new E63?
They're all bloody quick!!
Cheers, Pickles.

[korrupt]

Wet road ?

I haven't read the article yet, but it looks that way from the photos.


Latest Wheels I've got is August..with orange Mustang on the front cover....Aug 2013)...you have later?
September Motor has the AWD 412KW Audi RS7 doing it in 3.9, which they say, is quicker than the new E63?
They're all bloody quick!!
Cheers, Pickles.

September issue is out now. I just grabbed a copy.

[NickS]

In the past year or so everything has shifted by about a second ... 3's are the new benchmark, 4's are no longer solely the domain of the supercars, 5's are everyday sportscars, 6's are runabout hatch backs!

Unbelievable really, just when you think they can't possibly get any faster ... surely now they can't possibly get any faster!

[jc_sv8]

How about an HSV for the road and then a second one for the track only!
Spend another $50K getting it right and you'd still have change for a couple of 44Gl tanks of E85 and a few sets of track rubber.

Then we've spent the same amount - after that put them both down the 1/4 :driving:

[adr8]

GTS vs E63 Review

GTS 4.6s 0-100 12.6s 1/4 mile
E63 4.4s 0-100 12.3s 1/4 mile

http://theage.drive.com.au/new-car-comparison/hsv-gts-v-mercedes-e63-amg-20130821-2sa9j.html

[JimmyXR6T04]

In the past year or so everything has shifted by about a second ... 3's are the new benchmark, 4's are no longer solely the domain of the supercars, 5's are everyday sportscars, 6's are runabout hatch backs!

Unbelievable really, just when you think they can't possibly get any faster ... surely now they can't possibly get any faster!

Apparently the Nismo Nissan GT-R will be capable of a sub 2.1 sec 0-100km/h... It really is unbelievable. When i think back to 2004, my XR6T had 300rwkw and it felt like a rocket. Imagine what a 0-100km/h in about 2 seconds would feel like!!

I think the GTS is great for what it is. A large RWD aussie sedan, capable of some fantastic times/performance...

[zorro]

In the past year or so everything has shifted by about a second ... 3's are the new benchmark, 4's are no longer solely the domain of the supercars, 5's are everyday sportscars, 6's are runabout hatch backs!

Unbelievable really, just when you think they can't possibly get any faster ... surely now they can't possibly get any faster!

My old man bought an e55 brand new in 1998, back then was one of a few sedans doing 0-100 in sub 6 seconds.

Incredibly these things in 2013 are heavier and albeit with more power but have shaved off almost 2 seconds, imagine if they were 500kgs lighter!!

[shaness8]

Just go's to show you Torque wins races 800nm@1750 rpm is crazy.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Just go's to show you Torque wins races 800nm@1750 rpm is crazy.

I notice that the GTS doesn't hit peak torque until over 4000rpm. Even the GT makes peak torque about 2200rpm.

Can anyone shed light on why the GTS makes peak torque so late, would it be to assist with traction? Or other reasons? Is it mechanical, or engine type? Obviously a huge amount of peak torque early on is harder for the car maintain traction.

[jaykay]

Just go's to show you Torque wins races 800nm@1750 rpm is crazy.

Fuel consumption on the test is very interesting :hmmm:

[NickS]

I notice that the GTS doesn't hit peak torque until over 4000rpm.

I guess this isn't really an issue if you're getting 80-90% of it at 2,000-odd rpm ... I'll reserve judgement until I see a chart plotting it all the way along the rev range.

[csv rulz]

In the past year or so everything has shifted by about a second ... 3's are the new benchmark, 4's are no longer solely the domain of the supercars, 5's are everyday sportscars, 6's are runabout hatch backs!

Unbelievable really, just when you think they can't possibly get any faster ... surely now they can't possibly get any faster!

MkVIII Golf R is supposedly 0-100 in 4.9km, thats amazing out of a little hatchback.

[JimmyXR6T04]

I guess this isn't really an issue if you're getting 80-90% of it at 2,000-odd rpm ... I'll reserve judgement until I see a chart plotting it all the way along the rev range.

yeah i suppose, i didn't really look at it that way, especially with 740 odd Nm!! Even 80% of that is near on 600nm... Will be interesting to see how it does go in the hands of owners and on the dyno/track.

[Jag530G]

Had a read of the Wheels Mag article and in terms of acceleration the HSV stays with the AMG up to 60kph but then falls behind. I suspect part of the problem is the HSV's taller second (123kph vs 104kph) and third gear (169kph vs 155kph). Forth gear looks pretty similar (219kph vs 217kph and 5th/6th/7th all top out at a limited 250kph.

I wonder if a shorter diff ratio would help the HSV beat the AMG over the quarter mile? Is the manual actually quicker than the auto for HSV over the quarter? I wonder if the auto is actually quicker with the snappier changes.

I was more impressed by the lap time and often higher cornering speeds of the HSV, especially as the AMG is 86kg lighter, 109mm shorter and 45mm narrower. That's a superb effort by HSV.

Cheers, Matthew

[Pickles]

Had a read of the Wheels Mag article and in terms of acceleration the HSV stays with the AMG up to 60kph but then falls behind. I suspect part of the problem is the HSV's taller second (123kph vs 104kph) and third gear (169kph vs 155kph). Forth gear looks pretty similar (219kph vs 217kph and 5th/6th/7th all top out at a limited 250kph.

I wonder if a shorter diff ratio would help the HSV beat the AMG over the quarter mile? Is the manual actually quicker than the auto for HSV over the quarter? I wonder if the auto is actually quicker with the snappier changes.

I was more impressed by the lap time and often higher cornering speeds of the HSV, especially as the AMG is 86kg lighter, 109mm shorter and 45mm narrower. That's a superb effort by HSV.

Cheers, Matthew
Haven't read that analysis,.....but on a $ for $ basis, how good does that make the GTS?.....I mean, for the money, NOTHING comes close.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Jag530G]

Haven't read that analysis,.....but on a $ for $ basis, how good does that make the GTS?.....I mean, for the money, NOTHING comes close.
Cheers, Pickles.

Yep, dead right. Even if you were to knock out the "Australia Tax" out of the AMG it still wouldn't come close to the $93K the HSV is, and it isn't an all round better car.

Oh, and another difference between the AMG and HSV, HSV has the same make of tyres as the AMG but the rears are 10mm narrower than the AMG (HSV: 275, AMG 285). Along with the fact that HSV is a bigger, heavier car with a worse torque curve, to achieve better cornering speeds and lap time shows HSV have absolutely belted AMG in chassis set up.

Cheers, Matthew

[Drasius]

Read it on the plane coming home from work. The fact that the GTS was faster 'round Winton (GTS: 1:40.9 vs E63 S: 1:41.2) in the hands of John Bowe certainly does give it some credibility. General consensus is the the Mercs motor is stronger, but the HSV has the better of the fight when it comes to handling.Fairly soundly trounced on the (wet) strip though, but a very positive review of the GTS overall (but then it is wheels and they have a reputation of being pro holden), well worth a read.

Interesting to note that the SV6 vs XR6 comparo a bit later on listed handling as one major area where the SC got beaten by the XR. Seems a bit odd.

[Jag530G]

Yep, the AMG's acceleration is a classic example of the fact that the most important thing from an engine to deliver best acceleration is area under the torque curve, not peak power or torque. The AMG basically hits peak torque at around 1800 rpm and stays up there, the benefit of twin turbos really. The HSV just builds to its torque peak, just the nature of supercharging I guess.

Cheers, Matthew

[bouka]

Yep, the AMG's acceleration is a classic example of the fact that the most important thing from an engine to deliver best acceleration is area under the torque curve, not peak power or torque. The AMG basically hits peak torque at around 1800 rpm and stays up there, the benefit of twin turbos really. The HSV just builds to its torque peak, just the nature of supercharging I guess.

Cheers, Matthew

What was the speed at the end of the 1/4 for both cars. That should speak volumes.

[markone2]

Get down to your newsagent, Pickles. The latest Wheels has the GTS vs E63 S. Looks like a good article.

0 - 100km/h - GTS 4.7 AMG 4.3
0 - 400m - GTS 12.8 @ 183.2km/h AMG 12.2 @ 195.9km/h

Photo on the bottom of page 92 makes me think they should have fitted two bonnet struts...

Thats simply bloody sad imho

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?163722-Willowbank-in-the-Senator&p=2090648#post2090648.


.

[Plenty]

Thats simply bloody sad imho

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?163722-Willowbank-in-the-Senator&p=2090648#post2090648.

.

Yeah and that one you posted is on a dragstrip with dual stage timing beacons, worth at least .2sec - .3sec a run, factor in driver only and minimal fuel that time is still way off and the GTS trap speed is 10km/h faster in the wet.

The magazines test two up (driver and passenger) using GPS timers like the Driftbox and also with at least a half tank of fuel. Those times were also posted on a wet track. The fact the GTS smoked a car more than twice it's Aussie cost and with a serious history and racing pedigree that is AMG it's not sad mate, it's a bloody miracle!

[Jag530G]

What was the speed at the end of the 1/4 for both cars. That should speak volumes.

HSV 12.8 secs at 183.2kph, AMG 12.2secs at 195.9kph

0-100kph HSV 4.7secs, AMG 4.3secs
0-200kph HSV 15.1secs, AMG 12.7secs

So:

100-200kph HSV 10.4secs, AMG 8.4secs, 2 seconds difference in a bracket where grip and getting a good start don't matter much, that's the difference in torque (and the lower gear ratios for the AMG).

Cheers, Matthew

[bouka]

HSV 12.8 secs at 183.2kph, AMG 12.2secs at 195.9kph

0-100kph HSV 4.7secs, AMG 4.3secs
0-200kph HSV 15.1secs, AMG 12.7secs

So:

100-200kph HSV 10.4secs, AMG 8.4secs, 2 seconds difference in a bracket where grip and getting a good start don't matter much, that's the difference in torque (and the lower gear ratios for the AMG).

Cheers, Matthew

Thanks Matt.

So far we have 114.5 and 115.2 (in the wet) mph out of the gts.

The drive article tested at heathcote but does not tell us mph.

It is getting great write ups for handling, and having been in one I can say it deserves every bit of praise it gets for its handling.

[Jag530G]

The funny thing is, this HSV vs AMG thread is probably going in the same direction as all our old threads on the VE GTS vs FPV GT. The ideal car is the HSV chassis with the other mob's engine and gearbox.

Can't wait for a comparo of the HSV GTS, M-B E63S, BMW M5, Audi RS6 and Jag XF-RS. BMW seems to have lost it a bit with handling and the Jag from the recent drive article is more a "GT" than a road/race car so HSV might be up against the Audi as the best handler, the Audi's AWD will be tough to beat...

Cheers, Matthew

[Plenty]

The funny thing is, this HSV vs AMG thread is probably going in the same direction as all our old threads on the VE GTS vs FPV GT. The ideal car is the HSV chassis with the other mob's engine and gearbox.

Can't wait for a comparo of the HSV GTS, M-B E63S, BMW M5, Audi RS6 and Jag XF-RS. BMW seems to have lost it a bit with handling and the Jag from the recent drive article is more a "GT" than a road/race car so HSV might be up against the Audi as the best handler, the Audi's AWD will be tough to beat...

Cheers, Matthew


The Audi RS7 will smoke the GTS, it's near on a too perfect car, it's handling is controlled by so much mechanical wizardry that it nearly drives itself and is bordering on impossible to lose control of!

[markone2]

Yeah and that one you posted is on a dragstrip with dual stage timing beacons, worth at least .2sec - .3sec a run, factor in driver only and minimal fuel that time is still way off and the GTS trap speed is 10km/h faster in the wet.

The magazines test two up (driver and passenger) using GPS timers like the Driftbox and also with at least a half tank of fuel. Those times were also posted on a wet track. The fact the GTS smoked a car more than twice it's Aussie cost and with a serious history and racing pedigree that is AMG it's not sad mate, it's a bloody miracle!


Perhaps said magazines should utilize the more than accurate timing devices as supplied by ANDRA accredited race tracks …?

PS never assume..VE LS3 Senator in question was running over ¾ of a tank of fuel, not to mention another full weight 20” Pentagon in the boot….track visit was a spur of the moment decision ..
We are after all talking a $1500 upgrade to a stock 08 HSV

On the AMG question…..Having had the pleasure of putting my backside in one C 63 for 6 months and being piloted around Phillip Island in the wet by Jamie Brock at full noise in same……….I ‘m starting to wonder how many of the AMG knockers here have actually owned one? Or are these opinions based simply on internet browsing

.

[Plenty]

Who is knocking the AMG? I'm sure most are simply amazed at how much the gap (performance wise) has closed. The E63 is a fantastic car (no i have not driven it) but for our GTS to actually out class it on the track is a pretty impressive feat i reckon.

I guess the journo's use the GPS based timers simply for convenience as the strip is not always convenient. The more accurate time to look at is the terminal speed at the 1/4 mile, in the wet it was pretty quick given a dry sticky track it'll drop a couple of tenths i'm sure.

[Vulture]

This is what puts it all into perspective for me:

I can have an E63 AMG S

OR

A GTS *and* a CLA45 AMG *and* still have enough change for an SSV Redline if I wanted one.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Yep, the AMG's acceleration is a classic example of the fact that the most important thing from an engine to deliver best acceleration is area under the torque curve, not peak power or torque. The AMG basically hits peak torque at around 1800 rpm and stays up there, the benefit of twin turbos really. The HSV just builds to its torque peak, just the nature of supercharging I guess.

Cheers, Matthew

That's why i was asking earlier if anyone knows why the HSV makes peak torque so late, as the FPV manages to make peak torque at 2200 all the way through. Is it the way it's tuned, or more to do with the mechanical components used/set up? Any of the more knowledgeable members have any insight?

[GTS LSA]

This is what puts it all into perspective for me:

I can have an E63 AMG S

OR

A GTS *and* a CLA45 AMG *and* still have enough change for an SSV Redline if I wanted one.

Mate you got it in one

I love the AMG, I love the Audi, I love the GTR... (lotta love here) :love:... but I am not in that price range, I could be but I would rather invest the extra coin

The GTS to me is the winner regardless of .2 here or there on the basis of drive it out of a show room, & go so close to beating a car 3 times its price... what else can do that... and I don't want to mod it and possibly send it in the wrong direction based on what HSV have spent squillions getting so right

[jaykay]

Mate you got it in one

I love the AMG, I love the Audi, I love the GTR... (lotta love here) :love:... but I am not in that price range, I could be but I would rather invest the extra coin

The GTS to me is the winner regardless of .2 here or there on the basis of drive it out of a show room, & go so close to beating a car 3 times its price... what else can do that... and I don't want to mod it and possibly send it in the wrong direction based on what HSV have spent squillions getting so right

Swap the 1900 for a 2300 heartbeat :love:

[GTS LSA]

Swap the 1900 for a 2300 heartbeat :love:

sshh dont get me started :up2sum:

[mjrandom]

Swap the 1900 for a 2300 heartbeat :love:

Pretty sure that is what Vulture is planning!

[Vulture]

A 12.6 is ok. Must admit that I was hoping for a little faster, say closer to a 12.2. Still, a 12s factory standard street car is nothing to be sniffed at - especially at this price point. Very impressed that it went around a race track quicker than the AMG though. Sort of the wrong way around! A muscle car is supposed to be quick in a straight line as the sine qua non! But then fall over a bit on the corners. No doubt the engineers could have concentrated more on getting a quick quarter time but perhaps this would have compromised track handling. The AMG is obviously at another level of engineering (as it should be) with much less fuel usage from its stout engine and a more resolved ride/handling balance.

Will be interesting to see the times when private guys get them out onto the race track. Tempted to have a go in mine at Willowbank but potentially not as quick as it is a manual.. Although from what some others have said it may actually be quicker with the ratios? The manual has a 3.7:1 differential as opposed to the auto's 3.23 (from memory, can anyone can check the .pdf sales brochure?).
I'm sure guys willing to tweak the GTS a bit will be posting sub 12s by next year without much effort.
One thing that Morley mentioned in his review was the bi-modal exhaust seemed to take a while to open even when on the sport setting. That sounds shite and would push me towards an aftermarket exhaust if mine does that.
Who wants a big delay for the sound when stomping on the pedal? He also didn't like the electric steering and found it a bit contrived. Agree with his comments about the interior - there is something just not right to my eyes every time I look at it. I think it is the mix of knobs and button and different finishes. I think the aircon vents should have been done in black and some of the buttons 'hidden' a bit better. But I am really knit-picking here, when I sat in an R8 at the dealership, the interior felt a lot more cohesive than it looks in pictures but it is not a patch on the AMG layout.

[Vulture]

The GTS to me is the winner regardless of .2 here or there on the basis of drive it out of a show room, & go so close to beating a car 3 times its price... what else can do that... and I don't want to mod it and possibly send it in the wrong direction based on what HSV have spent squillions getting so right

Definitely, I've decided that if I want a fast car, I'll buy it fast.
Well ok, sometimes some simple mods are not so bad as Markone2 points out.

[GTS LSA]

^^
Gear Ratios
6-speed manual / 6-speed automatic with Active Select
1 2.66 / 4.03 2 1.78 / 2.36 3 1.30 / 1.53 4 1.00 / 1.15 5 0.80 / 0.85 6 0.63 / 0.67 Final Drive 3.73 / 3.23

[Jag530G]

^^
Gear Ratios
6-speed manual / 6-speed automatic with Active Select
1 2.66 / 4.03 2 1.78 / 2.36 3 1.30 / 1.53 4 1.00 / 1.15 5 0.80 / 0.85 6 0.63 / 0.67 Final Drive 3.73 / 3.23

Working it out gearbox x diff, the auto has a shorter 1,2 and 3 and pretty much same same for 4th, maybe the auto will be quicker down the quarter mile? Are there different ratios available for the 9.75" diff apart from 3.73 and 3.23?

Cheers, Matthew

[Vulture]

Was the car Wheels tested an auto or manual?

[Brett240]

Was the car Wheels tested an auto or manual?

Auto. i'd be really interested if MOTOR tests a manual. I susect t will be quicker than wheels auto time

[GTS LSA]

Yeah I wouldnt mind a comparison either, I thought I had read that auto but manually changing was the quickest, but that may have just been an opinion also

[Pickles]

Just bought Wheels & read the GTS/E63 "comparison".
All I can say is "Wow", I thought the car would be well received, but that comparison shows it being "right up there" with the E63 for a little more than a third of the price. I think this article, & others, (there's another in the Sun today), will make even more people stand up & take notice of what this car is.....Phil Harding would have to be super happy.
John Bowe's comments were telling....He is nobody's idiot, and if he says something's good, then it is.
I did notice that the GTS was a manual, so another comparison with an auto?....well, what do you guys think?....would it be better, worse...or what? And another thing was that the standing quarter, 0-100 etc was done on damp surfaces, surely not the best launch for 430KW, so maybe those times for both cars could be improved upon.
Well done, HSV. Pickles.

[jaykay]

Get Joe Public in them already !!!! :driving: :nos:

[XUV]

I did notice that the GTS was a manual, so another comparison with an auto?....well, what do you guys think?....would it be better, worse...or what?

If the Auto, in manual mode, changes gears when it's told to , then you have the best of both worlds.