VF Electric Handbrake Warning

[gjohnson]

To all those who will be driving a new VF, Beware, the electric handbrake can be activated at any speed!
For those like myself who are so use to the power window switch being in the centre console on the VE, that location is now the handbrake switch! I was luckily only driving slowly out of a carpark maybe 20 kmh and I went to put up my window, I unconsciously went to the centre console with my left hand as i have done for years and flicked the switch! Needless to say the handbrake worked extremely well and the contents of my girlfriends handbag went from her lap to all over the dash in a split second!
I spoke to the dealer and asked if there was a certain speed at which point the handbrake wouldn't engage for safety's sake and the answer was NO!
So be very careful and conscious when doing highway speeds (especially in the wet) or if you have kids in the car that like playing with switches!
Poor design and potentially very dangerous!
Cheers Greg.

[Cobalt]

That is ridiculous.

[jaykay]

Reminds me of my youth and handbrakies in the old HR wagon :lol:

[C4B]

That cannot be right.

[Drizt]

No way that is right. An accidental press of the button at speed could be fatal.

[IJ.]

Would be worth testing on a dirt road, I'd imagine if it comes on at all it would be reduced by the speed so it doesn't lock up, my understanding is it must work as an emergency brake as well as a parking brake.

[gjohnson]

That cannot be right.
I didn't imagine it I can assure you, I'm not game to try it at a higher speed but feel free to give it a go yourself and let us know what happens?
The dealer even told me he had done it himself while leaving a parking ticket machine/ boom gate. He had his window down to put ticket in machine and when boom went up he drove through and flicked the switch trying to do up his window, as he is used to VE switch locations, and he nearly headbutted the windscreen!

[gjohnson]

Would be worth testing on a dirt road, I'd imagine if it comes on at all it would be reduced by the speed so it doesn't lock up, my understanding is it must work as an emergency brake as well as a parking brake.

I would like to think the ABS would at least cut in and stop the rear wheels locking up? I'm not going to test it though!

[Jag530G]

I would like to think the ABS would at least cut in and stop the rear wheels locking up? I'm not going to test it though!

As per IJ's comment, the handbrake also serves as an emergency brake. If your brakes fail you would want to hand brake to work at any speed. In fact I think you'll find it might even be an ADR/Roadworthy requirement.

As to your point, the handbrake doesn't have an ABS function so it would just lock the rear wheels at worst. And because it doesn't have an ABS function the ESC wouldn't work on the rear wheels either, the ESC would have to try and control the car by braking the front wheels only.

I wonder if the ESC is linked to the handbrake switch such that it can compensate for possible rear wheel lock up by the handbrake?

Who wants to be a lab rat and test this out for us?

Cheers, Matthew

[jc_sv8]

Grass paddock, get up to 80 clicks and flick the switch. Oh and make sure you've got the Go-Pro recording :driving:

[IJ.]

Put a call in to a Mate that worked on the VF, he doesn't know but is asking the guys that did the programming..

[IJ.]

When the Park brake is engaged above xxx speed the ABS pump is fired up then once the speed drops to yy the mechanical brake takes over

Hmmm have to wonder what happens in the case of hydraulic failure...

[Jag530G]

Hmmm have to wonder what happens in the case of hydraulic failure...

Then it goes straight to the park brake presumably. Thinking about this, hopefully GM have linked the park brake in with the ABS and ESC and it could all actually work very well. If you press the park brake button whilst moving the normal hydraulic brakes are applied until safe to apply the park brake, if the hydraulic brakes don't work then the park brake comes on. By applying the hydraulic brakes first than the ABS and ESC can still work.

I'll be curious to see what your mate at GMH says.

Cheers, Matthew

[XLR8 V8]

The info I've read on these electric handbrake systems suggest they have a safety feature that won't allow it to engage it if just pressed (above a certain speed), but if pressed and HELD it will engage as an emergency brake. So a quick press won't work, but a held press will happily put you through the windscreen no matter what speed you were doing.

[IJ.]

He Laughed at Greg's story and said it would be very easy to do if you were used to driving a VE :)

Just waiting to hear back from the Brake Engineer.

[Jag530G]

THinking about it a bit more, if the park brake is all linked up with the ABS and ESC than the ABS could still work with the park brake on. If the park brake was on and had locked the rear wheels, but the front wheels were still turning, the ABS sensors would show a difference in wheel velocities and could release the park brake and consequently unlock the rear wheels. In theory the ABS module could (electrically) pulse the park brake to give it anti lock behaviour as well. Don't know if this is how far GM have gone with it.

In a way an electric park brake is a partial step towards electic (non hydraulic) braking.

Cheers, Matthew

[VTSSDUDE]

VF's just keep getting better, you telling me they come out with an "Initiate Drift" button? :bravo:

[IJ.]

VF's just keep getting better, you telling me they come out with an "Initiate Drift" button? :bravo:
"Auto Hoon" ;)

[swingtan]

People need to stop and think about what is going on....

The hand / park / emergency brake has a number of requirements,


preventing the car from rolling when unattended.
Acting as an emergency brake should an issue with the main braking system arise that prevents normal operation.


these are two, there are probably more...

The operation of the electric brake in the VF appears to be functionally correct. Those thinking it's crazy not to have a lockout above a certain speed should look at the manual "cable" hand brakes in older cars. these still operate at any speed.

I see no issues with the functional operation, but the location of the switch is a poor choice. Placing the switch in a position that was previously used for window operation is simply bad design. It's be a significant improvement if the switch was only active if the main brake pedal was also active. All new Holdens monitor the brake pedal state, it's be very easy to add this switch as a "park brake enabler".

Simon

[gjohnson]

People need to stop and think about what is going on....

The hand / park / emergency brake has a number of requirements,


preventing the car from rolling when unattended.
Acting as an emergency brake should an issue with the main braking system arise that prevents normal operation.


these are two, there are probably more...

The operation of the electric brake in the VF appears to be functionally correct. Those thinking it's crazy not to have a lockout above a certain speed should look at the manual "cable" hand brakes in older cars. these still operate at any speed.

I see no issues with the functional operation, but the location of the switch is a poor choice. Placing the switch in a position that was previously used for window operation is simply bad design. It's be a significant improvement if the switch was only active if the main brake pedal was also active. All new Holdens monitor the brake pedal state, it's be very easy to add this switch as a "park brake enabler".

Simon

Couldn't agree more about the position of the switch, if it was on the dash in front of you maybe to the right of the steering wheel near the headlight switch were no kids or other passengers could reach it, it wouldn't be a problem.

[planetdavo]

Engine on, speed above 15 km/h
Action- Lift and hold switch
•If cruise control is on, cruise is disabled
•ESC controlled deceleration down to 6 km/h (4 mph)
•Red tell-tale illuminated
•Brake light applied
•Continuous chime above 15 km/h (9 mph)
•DIC display = Release Park Brake Switch (above 15 km/h (9 mph))
•EPB static apply below 6 km/h (4 mph)
•DIC display = Park Brake Set
•Red tell-tale remains illuminated

Engine ON, speed above 15 km/h (9 mph)
Action- Lift and hold switch for several seconds
-ESC controlled stop releases when switch is released. Tell-tale, brake light, chime and DIC go off after brief delay

Engine ON, speed between 6–15 km/h (4–9 mph)
Action- Lift and hold switch
•ESC controlled deceleration down to 6 km/h (4 mph)
•Red tell-tale illuminated
•Brake light applied
•No chime during vehicle motion
•No DIC message during vehicle motion
•EPB static apply below 6 km/h (4 mph)
•DIC display = Park Brake Set
•Red tell-tale remains illuminated

[planetdavo]

I will add that VF uses a switch location and EPB operation similar to many other cars with this modern style of handbrake.
It is perhaps a good time to remind people that they "should" become familiar with the car they are driving BEFORE they start driving it, rather than just making assumptions that all cars "are the same".

[Alex(AUS)]

This sounds quite scary. My wife did also lift the electronic brake switch in her VW Tiguan while I was driving at around 20km/h .... it also does work just like pulling the handbrake full up instantly. The bad thing is that she had lots of stuff on the centre console and accidentally did it while lifting some of it off. I cant bring myself to think what would happen at speed with kids playing with it ... It would be good to get some proper detail about how this works.

Alex

[C4B]

My old Disco3 deactivated the electric handbrake above 10km/h.

If you had a brake failure, holding the switch up for an extended period would slowly activate the handbrake so you could still stop in a controlled fashion.

The Holden system sounds like a class action suit waiting to happen ;-)

[planetdavo]

This sounds quite scary. My wife did also lift the electronic brake switch in her VW Tiguan while I was driving at around 20km/h .... it also does work just like pulling the handbrake full up instantly. The bad thing is that she had lots of stuff on the centre console and accidentally did it while lifting some of it off. I cant bring myself to think what would happen at speed with kids playing with it ... It would be good to get some proper detail about how this works.

Alex

End of the day it is no different to a person in a car with an "old school" handbrake lever pulling the handbrake lever on whilst the car is being driven...
I posted the info above about the way it operates so that people are in no doubt about what speeds and button usage is required, and what actions will follow. For most "accidental" situations in a VF, the bit below will apply, and most importantly, WILL CEASE TO SLOW THE CAR DOWN as soon as the button is released...
Engine ON, speed above 15 km/h (9 mph)
Action- Lift and hold switch for several seconds
-ESC controlled stop releases when switch is released. Tell-tale, brake light, chime and DIC go off after brief delay
Hence, normality will return, just as if the handbrake lever is released in an older car.

[cfour]

It would be handy if a warning chime is given say 4-5sec before the handbrake is activated when travelling over 15kms, but I do realise in an emergency you really don't want a delay before it applies.

On a test drive, I also noticed if you leave the handbrake on and drive off it releases automatically.

[sbmk1982]

Hi people
Been there .. done that ! ... same scenario in the carpark ...went to wind down the window to open the garage and came to an abrupt halt ;/
Steve

[VNV8]

how the hell would the car now you were about to apply the handbrake?

[cfour]

how the hell would the car now you were about to apply the handbrake?

Obviously, once you pull the button up, give you a quick warning chime and then apply the brake, when travelling over 15km.

[XLR8 V8]

Obviously, once you pull the button up, give you a quick warning chime and then apply the brake, when travelling over 15km.

Or the chime could be replaced with a voice that says "Really? The handbrake at this speed? OOOOOK then, better grab a hold of something" **screeech** :lol:

[planetdavo]

Hi people
Been there .. done that ! ... same scenario in the carpark ...went to wind down the window to open the garage and came to an abrupt halt ;/
Steve

A new variation on the "I went to indicate and the wipers came on"... ;)

[XUV]

A new variation on the "I went to indicate and the wipers came on"... ;)

or " I accidentally the whole handbrake " .....

[185iboy]

It also serves a purpose for bedding in rear brakes :teach: Bmw's work the same. The handbrake switch is isolated so you can really accidentally pull it up.

[redvxr8clubby]

Maybe there's a market for missile switch covers for the park brake switch.

[offshore]

Bit of a worry imagine if a kid just activated it by accident.

[vyls1wa]

From holden

Hi Robert,Thanks for contacting us! Through reading the owners manual, it states 'If the EPB is applied while the vehicle is in motion, a chime will sound, and the DIC message RELEASE PARK BRAKE SWITCH will be displayed. The vehicle will decelerate as long as the switch is held in the up position. Releasing the EPB switch during the deceleration will release the parking brake. If the switch is held in the up position until the vehicle comes to a stop, the EPB will remain applied'. Hope this helps. Thanks, Aaron @ Holden

[planetdavo]

Bit of a worry imagine if a kid just activated it by accident.

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

[planetdavo]

Bit of a worry imagine if a kid just activated it by accident.

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

[benjo]

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

Dont know what planet your on davo but kids are kids, they can undo a seat belt in a second, who knows jump through the seats step on it push it, things do happen, seems like a stupid idea not to have it disabled at speed.

[planetdavo]

Dont know what planet your on davo but kids are kids, they can undo a seat belt in a second, who knows jump through the seats step on it push it, things do happen, seems like a stupid idea not to have it disabled at speed.

There are pro's and con's to either option benjo. Having no available handbrake for a car at speed that has suffered a hydraulic brake failure is a situation we best not think about...
Sorry you got offended so much fella, but at some point, parents need to show some responsibility for what they brought into the world.
I guess, unfortunately, we live ever more in a world where someone else is always to blame for everything. A kid that can reach forward a pull up this button can also reach forward and pull a handbrake lever...
Just sayin'.

[mickeyVX350]

I'm going to test with the Captiva - I thought it only engaged IF the BRAKE was pressed as well?

[csv rulz]

I'm going to test with the Captiva - I thought it only engaged IF the BRAKE was pressed as well?

Will have to try with the koleos. I had been told it would just start to slow the car until it came to a stop, but have never tried.

[C4B]

My thoughts on this scenario are- how did the restrained kid in the back seat reach it to begin with?
It is a legal requirement for all persons in a motor vehicle in this country to be restrained in a moving vehicle. If not, why is the driver still driving the vehicle illegally?

You do realise that kids can sit in the front passenger seat of a vehicle too..... And unless they're a midget, would have no issue reaching the switchgear without breaking any laws.

The whole BS argument about the brakes failing is the same one people used to use 25 years ago to justify NOT buying a car with an Automatic Gearbox. The reality is, brake failure on cars is almost unheard of in this day and age.

[planetdavo]

You do realise that kids can sit in the front passenger seat of a vehicle too..... And unless they're a midget, would have no issue reaching the switchgear without breaking any laws.

The whole BS argument about the brakes failing is the same one people used to use 25 years ago to justify NOT buying a car with an Automatic Gearbox. The reality is, brake failure on cars is almost unheard of in this day and age.

Yes I do realise, and I'm also smart enough to know that said "problematic" kid could also pull on the auto shifter or manual gear lever, besides a handbrake lever, a steering wheel, or wrap their arms around mum or dad's neck to attract some attention too...
People are nitpicking on this electric brake switch being a "problem". If you don't like it that bad, buy a different car. Were most of the people complaining bitterly so far even in the market for a VF anyway...???

[whitels1ss]

You do realise that kids can sit in the front passenger seat of a vehicle too..... And unless they're a midget, would have no issue reaching the switchgear

As a little boy, I used to love pulling up the handbrake on my mum's manual car at the traffic lights while she was not looking:evil:

[C4B]

People are nitpicking on this electric brake switch being a "problem". If you don't like it that bad, buy a different car. Were most of the people complaining bitterly so far even in the market for a VF anyway...???

I love the electric handbrake. In fact it's one of the things I really miss from my old Land Rover. But in saying that it was a safely implemented version. Not one that is going to see you stationary in front of a 55 Tonne B Double doing 100km's an hour.

I'd rather have it fully disabled at speed.

[C4B]

As a little boy, I used to love pulling up the handbrake on my mum's manual car at the traffic lights while she was not looking:evil:

Some of the most fun I've had in a car was doing handbrake turns in a near new hired Statesman out at Charleville. Knowing the force required to fully apply the handbrake at 60km/h I can say with certainty that a small child could never do it.....

[NickS]

I love the electric handbrake. In fact it's one of the things I really miss from my old Land Rover. But in saying that it was a safely implemented version. Not one that is going to see you stationary in front of a 55 Tonne B Double doing 100km's an hour.

I'd rather have it fully disabled at speed.

Am I missing something Geoff ... by my reading you need to be holding the switch on until the car comes to a stop for that to happen, when you let go while the car is in motion the brake disengages ??? I think ... ???

I also think that if the kids aren't old enough to sit in the front without touching anything then they aren't old enough to sit in the front!

I jump from car to car regularly, I drive cars with left stalk indicators, right stalk indicators, hand brakes, foot brakes, electric brakes, windows in the centre, windows on the door ... I've never once f*#ked any of them up, can't see it's all that difficult really. Engage brain before pressing anything while the car is moving!

:cheers:

[jc_sv8]

Thinking while driving? That will never catch on... :bravo:

[C4B]

Am I missing something Geoff ... by my reading you need to be holding the switch on until the car comes to a stop for that to happen, when you let go while the car is in motion the brake disengages ??? I think ... ???

I also think that if the kids aren't old enough to sit in the front without touching anything then they aren't old enough to sit in the front!

I jump from car to car regularly, I drive cars with left stalk indicators, right stalk indicators, hand brakes, foot brakes, electric brakes, windows in the centre, windows on the door ... I've never once f*#ked any of them up, can't see it's all that difficult really. Engage brain before pressing anything while the car is moving!

:cheers:

I'm more concerned about the adults personally. I can't say I've ever had problems with (for example) the indicator stalks on opposite sides, but there are a lot that do. It seems strange to me to have things like inhibitors so you can't start it in gear, and seatbelt warning switches and yet have something which by the original account in this thread, can cause you serious danger.

Like I said, when the car is moving, disable it..... If you need to stop..... Hit something like everyone else does ;)

[black stallion]

I did the same thing as the OP. Went to close my window and nearly face planted the steering wheel.
Was very used to the VE power window switches being in that spot. Dislike them being on the door and dislike the handbrake being in the same spot.
Perhaps it should be a double lift at 20km/h or more to ensure no false activations?

[planetdavo]

I'm more concerned about the adults personally. I can't say I've ever had problems with (for example) the indicator stalks on opposite sides, but there are a lot that do. It seems strange to me to have things like inhibitors so you can't start it in gear, and seatbelt warning switches and yet have something which by the original account in this thread, can cause you serious danger.

Like I said, when the car is moving, disable it..... If you need to stop..... Hit something like everyone else does ;)

Let there be no mistake, it is the person operating the vehicle that is causing this alleged "serious danger". If a driver (any driver) is incapable of comprehending that they've pulled the wrong button and need to release it, well, maybe they shouldn't be on the road...
As I said (way) earlier, releasing the button releases the handbrake's retardation of your speed. It's NOT a "one touch and it's jammed on" scenario!!! The vehicle will only progressively slow down whilst it held on. It only locks on at extremely low speed when almost stationary.
Perhaps, in this modern age of people rushing everywhere, a few more need to re-acquaint themselves with the operation of the car they drive before driving off in it.
If we want to talk about a truly appalling safety issue in motor vehicles, let's talk about all the idiots that can't keep their damn mobile phones out of their hands for even 5 minutes out there in the bitumen jungle...

[C4B]

If we want to talk about a truly appalling safety issue in motor vehicles, let's talk about all the idiots that can't keep their damn mobile phones out of their hands for even 5 minutes out there in the bitumen jungle...

I wish there was a way you could dob in these clowns that sit there transfixed on bloody Facebook (or whatever it is they're looking at). Young women seem to be the worst from my local experience. Not far behind though is the tradies who think they're totally exempt from not being permitted to hold a phone and talk on it..... FFS, most of them earn as much as a professional occupation, surely they can afford a Bluetooth kit for their car.

[whitels1ss]

I think they should just have left it simple, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
This fancy new setup sounds as though it, in some circumstances could cause problems and
I think the simple old cable operated handbrake (emergency or safety brake) worked fine:goodjob:

[whitels1ss]

I wish there was a way you could dob in these clowns that sit there transfixed on bloody Facebook (or whatever it is they're looking at). Young women seem to be the worst from my local experience. Not far behind though is the tradies who think they're totally exempt from not being permitted to hold a phone and talk on it..... FFS, most of them earn as much as a professional occupation, surely they can afford a Bluetooth kit for their car.

Yes I agree, we seem to see so many texting as well :doh:
Also the knob heads with head phones or twin earpieces driving along,
not being able to hear anything other than whatever they are playing through them:stupid:

[Xjas]

I think they should just have left it simple, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
This fancy new setup sounds as though it, in some circumstances could cause problems and
I think the simple old cable operated handbrake (emergency or safety brake) worked fine:goodjob:

I agree, a small electrial switch is much easier to accidently operate than a lever that requires some actual force. People that carry on about being in control of the motor vehicle, kid shouldn't touch this or that, etc. need to get over the holden can do no wrong attitude and accpet a fault with the product where one clearly exists. I'm not saying the the whole electric handbrake concept is a failure but perhaps the software or switch design wasn't well enough thought out.
Also on the part of an emergency brake, a hand brake lever allows the user to modulate brake operation, an on/off switch doesn't so in that regard the old style hand brake is far superior.

[ti0350]

So what I gather from reading here is that if you pull the EPB button in the car and your doing over 15km/h the car will start to slow down controlled by the ESC but it doesn't actually lock the rear wheels, if you release the button then the car stops slowing down. If you get down to say 6 km/h then it probably will lock the wheels because the EPB stays on.
If your driving in the car and your child pulls the button by accident then the car will start slowing down but won't lock the rear wheels and the car should be fully controllable because the ESC slows the car down. As soon as the button is released the car stops slowing down, so as soon you notice the car slowing you get your child to let go of the button and everything is good.
With the old cable and lever type arrangement if somebody pulled the lever didn't matter what speed the car would lock its rear wheels.
I don't see where some of you are having trouble with this, I went from a VYSS to a Captiva which was the first Holden to get an EPB and I have never once accidently pulled the EPB looking for the window button.

[Cobalt]

Simple programming change could improve this dramatically

Brake does not activate while speed is above 4kph.. Unless ABS pressure switch indicates that there is brake failure..all vehicles with abs have the ability to know if there has been a hydraulic failure.

I've only ever seen brakes fail in an accident situation where the lines were ruptured by the impact itself...pretty much to late to apply an e-brake.

The switch location is also poorly though out... There are many vehicles with electric hand brakes and Holden is not the only on to fall into this trap.. Mercedes at least has placed it on the outside of the driver and at the bottom of the dash where it would be almost impossible for anyone to reach other than the driver

Manual park brakes could also be activated by others in the vehicle but this is an opportunity to improve safety not use excuses why it should be left as is.

They also have a system where in an Mercedes A Class manual the brakes hold for a few seconds so you don't need the handbrake on hill starts. They also have a feature where if you press the brake pedal twice while stationary it holds the car for you until you take off. Awesome

The more time I spend in these vehicles the more I realize that the the Merc engineers are just more thorough.

Not hard to fix with a software upgrade... Moving the switch however......

Cheers

Cobalt

[redvxr8clubby]

I think they should just have left it simple, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
This fancy new setup sounds as though it, in some circumstances could cause problems and
I think the simple old cable operated handbrake (emergency or safety brake) worked fine:goodjob:

True, but in the case of the VE, the handbrake isn't a strong point of the cars design. My wife hates driving the VE or even moving it purely because of the handbrake, dosn't have a problem with any other models Commodore or other cars.

[Crusty]

They also have a system where in an Mercedes A Class manual the brakes hold for a few seconds so you don't need the handbrake on hill starts.


The VF has this too. It just does it slightly differently, the EPB releases once it detects throttle input when the clutch is released.

[IJ.]

Burst a Rubber line on the front of my Adventra about 6 months ago, no damage no sign of anything wrapped around it just let go pulling into the GF's driveway, while rare failures do happen.

[Toddler78]

Don't know how many people have pulled the hand brake on whilst in motion on a modern car like a vt/xy/z? I have and at speed, it is either off or on (rears locked) and unless the button is still depressed those babies are staying locked. From my understanding of the push button from this thread whilst yes the button location may not be in the ideal location it is not going to lock the rears at speed like a cable brake will do.

To me = safer

[planetdavo]

I agree, a small electrial switch is much easier to accidently operate than a lever that requires some actual force. People that carry on about being in control of the motor vehicle, kid shouldn't touch this or that, etc. need to get over the holden can do no wrong attitude and accpet a fault with the product where one clearly exists. I'm not saying the the whole electric handbrake concept is a failure but perhaps the software or switch design wasn't well enough thought out.
Also on the part of an emergency brake, a hand brake lever allows the user to modulate brake operation, an on/off switch doesn't so in that regard the old style hand brake is far superior.

Clearly aimed the part about "Holden can do no wrong" at myself, but you are still wrong.
I'm not at all saying Holden can do no wrong. Of course they can, and do, from time to time. Like any company can, and does. I'm just defending a subject that really shouldn't have come up to begin with. As others have since described, a manual handbrake lever is FAR more dangerous than this EPB.
Rarely will something ever suit 100% of the population, but the way this has been programmed is pretty damn "safe"- once people grasp the way it operates (which I posted way back earlier so people would understand). Perhaps people are rather more resistant to change than there being an actual inherent "issue"...
Just a thought.

[IJ.]

Maybe people don't like being condescended to....

Just a thought.

[planetdavo]

Maybe people don't like being condescended to....

Just a thought.

That's your opinion, just as I'm entitled to have an opinion too. If people can't handle the answers given sometimes, well, we're all adults right... :)

[Xjas]

Clearly aimed the part about "Holden can do no wrong" at myself, but you are still wrong.

Davo, my post was not aimed directly at you, it was a general comment, If I was addressing you directly I would have used your name as I have in this post.

As for the manual hand brake being far more dangerous than the EPB, there are are two people in this thread who've said they have accidently applied the EPB when they didnt intend to, I could be wrong but I dont recall any threads where some claimed they'd accidently applied their VT-VE manual parking brake while driving.
Feel free to explain why the VF EPB safer than the manual handbrake in a VT-VE.

[Vulture]

Action- Lift and hold switch for several seconds


Yep, this is the problem when combined with the placement of the electric park brake is it is exactly what we are used to doing to get the electric window to come up.
I like Cobalt's suggestion for software changes and I wouldn't be surprised if Holden do something like this in a software update.
It wouldn't be an issue if our previous cars had the window switches on the door rather than the center console but knowing this was the case, thorough engineering should really have predicted this would be a common error for drivers of previous Commodores - willing to bet the development staff even did it themselves.

[csv rulz]

I have a car with an electric handbrake that is in the same position as a vf. Never had an issue with accidentally putting it on. Maybe people need to familiarize themselves with the car they are driving before taking off. Lesson 101 in driving.

If you ask me its the same old story of people trying to blame others for their own stupidity.

For a Holden based forum some people sure seem to put a lot of time in trying to find what they consider a fault and then try to push that opinion on others.

My understanding of the electric handbrake is if pulled on and held on at speed it won't lock the rear wheels but will slow the car as quickly as possible. Seems pretty safe to me.

[planetdavo]

I have a car with an electric handbrake that is in the same position as a vf. Never had an issue with accidentally putting it on. Maybe people need to familiarize themselves with the car they are driving before taking off. Lesson 101 in driving.

If you ask me its the same old story of people trying to blame others for their own stupidity.

For a Holden based forum some people sure seem to put a lot of time in trying to find what they consider a fault and then try to push that opinion on others.

My understanding of the electric handbrake is if pulled on and held on at speed it won't lock the rear wheels but will slow the car as quickly as possible. Seems pretty safe to me.

Exactly....well said.

[XUV]

I can imagine this being the same convo for the Torana/Sunbird foot operated handbrake, had the internet existed back then .....

" I went to push the clutch and hit the handbrake instead "


"what type of person lifts his leg up that high to clutch "


"you know kids they hide in the footwell" ......... :lol:
how did we grieve our differences back then :argue: :cheers:

[planetdavo]

Yep, this is the problem when combined with the placement of the electric park brake is it is exactly what we are used to doing to get the electric window to come up.
I like Cobalt's suggestion for software changes and I wouldn't be surprised if Holden do something like this in a software update.
It wouldn't be an issue if our previous cars had the window switches on the door rather than the center console but knowing this was the case, thorough engineering should really have predicted this would be a common error for drivers of previous Commodores - willing to bet the development staff even did it themselves.

Most cars DON'T have console window switches. Seems to be a tiny percentage of previous Commodore owners struggling with this.
Honestly, what do you suggest is better? Remember that this handbrake is required to operate in an emergency without having to consult the owners manual to figure out how to do it...

[GTS LSA]

Have to admit, I am not worried about it at all, my last 2 cars have had the window controls on the door and only took about 3 days for muscle memory to kick in

I am also anal about safety, so I would have and still will read the instructions, but the new system seems pretty good to me, wonder if it will be good on a skid pan

[Plenty]

Yep, this is the problem when combined with the placement of the electric park brake is it is exactly what we are used to doing to get the electric window to come up.
I like Cobalt's suggestion for software changes and I wouldn't be surprised if Holden do something like this in a software update.
It wouldn't be an issue if our previous cars had the window switches on the door rather than the center console but knowing this was the case, thorough engineering should really have predicted this would be a common error for drivers of previous Commodores - willing to bet the development staff even did it themselves.

Who cares, adapt to the change or stay in the dark ages. It's not even close to the same position! This is just a case of someone not familiarising themselves with a product prior to using it.

[jaykay]

The only issue I have getting used to the EPB is whether I need to push it or lift it up to activate it :lol:..then I just think of how the old lever handbrake worked....

Never once got confused with it being something else...

[planetdavo]

Davo, my post was not aimed directly at you, it was a general comment, If I was addressing you directly I would have used your name as I have in this post.

As for the manual hand brake being far more dangerous than the EPB, there are are two people in this thread who've said they have accidently applied the EPB when they didnt intend to, I could be wrong but I dont recall any threads where some claimed they'd accidently applied their VT-VE manual parking brake while driving.
Feel free to explain why the VF EPB safer than the manual handbrake in a VT-VE.

Pretty, ummm, "interesting" wording you chose if you wasn't aimed at me! :lmao:
I've already said why it's "safer" than a manual handbrake, as have others. An EPB in VF WILL NOT lock the rear wheels until close to stopping, whereas pulling the manual handbrake on at any speed risks spitting you off into the scenery...

[planetdavo]

The only issue I have getting used to the EPB is whether I need to push it or lift it up to activate it :lol:...

I did the same thing the first time I drove a series 2 Captiva 7 when they were released...:lol:

[csv rulz]

Are the Holden ones automatic? With my car, if you put it in drive and his the accelerator it automatically releases. When you come to a stop and turn the car off it automatically engages

[VTSSDUDE]

Are the Holden ones automatic? With my car, if you put it in drive and his the accelerator it automatically releases. When you come to a stop and turn the car off it automatically engages

Now this is cool.

[GTS LSA]

Are the Holden ones automatic? With my car, if you put it in drive and his the accelerator it automatically releases. When you come to a stop and turn the car off it automatically engages

My wifes car has that (VW R36 wagon).... I like it, though took a little bit of getting used to, can just gently load it up and then hit the go pedal and your off:up2sum:

[csv rulz]

My wifes car has that (VW R36 wagon).... I like it, though took a little bit of getting used to, can just gently load it up and then hit the go pedal and your off:up2sum:

Yeah ours is the same. As it has a cvt on a really step hill it can roll back a bit when you go to take off. So I just put the handbrake on and leave the car in drive, as soon as the light goes green I hit the accelerator and it releases allowing me to take off with no rollback what so ever. Its a good feature

[Vulture]

Who cares, adapt to the change or stay in the dark ages. It's not even close to the same position! This is just a case of someone not familiarising themselves with a product prior to using it.

Fair enough, I don't have my GTS yet so may be speaking too soon. Will let you know if I make the same mistake as drive the VZSS a lot. I switch between that and a 370z and am constantly forgetting where the switches are, but true I have never actually activated something by mistake.

[mjrandom]

It is going to be interesting because I use the handbrake all the time to hold the car at lights. A hangover from driving lots of manuals I guess. Had an SMG VW in the UK a couple of years ago and found the electric brake good except using the accelerator to switch the brake off actually damaged a driveway because the rears skidded. Might have been a throttle issue though. Too much of it! Of the 5 cars/4wds in the stable at the moment only the E series has the window switches in the centre so not that much of a change for me I hope. I reckon it will be fine in the Gen F may just take some getting used to I only do the window thing to get in and out of the work carpark and get the mail and in and out of parking stations so doubt there will be any urge to try it at 100kph.

[vyls1wa]

Are the Holden ones automatic? With my car, if you put it in drive and his the accelerator it automatically releases. When you come to a stop and turn the car off it automatically engages


Yes they are, and all hill starts I've done now the car holds itself.

But yeh automatically turns itself off with a it of pedal pressure, though it doesn't turn itself on from what I've seen. It might do if the car is locked, but on shut down no it didn't engage.

As for the issue at hand, both my wife and I have come from a vy with elec with windows and I must say I don't see this as a real issue, more of a driver being somewhat familiar with their car.

Be not different going from a VE to a different branded car with it the switch in the same spot.

[Vulture]

So it will work as an aid to hill start in a manual?

[mac06]

So it will work as an aid to hill start in a manual?

Yes, I just put the EPB on at lights on an incline and just drive off normally. The EPB releases automatically. If very slow in the clutch release you can roll back fractionally, but only slightly. A lot easier than the old cable release park brakes. No need to think about it, just drive off.

[GTS LSA]

I do recall reading hill start, might go back and look at the brochure... Should work the same

[sjhugh]

I was very critical of the Series 1 VE for the location of its screen and buttons as I found you needed to dip your head at times to access common functions like the stereo, SatNav, windows and AirCon.
So a big thumps up to Holden for getting these things more up to eye level and falling into line with the safety ergonomics already adopted by many other manufacturers.

I‘m also another member who regularly swaps back and forth from different cars with varying locations for the common functions and have never had a problem with changing from one to another.
I agree with what others have said, once you take the time to familiarise yourself with the vehicle, muscle memory should automatically kick in.

The Electric Handbrake is a good step in the right direction and now all you need to do is learn how to use it.





I can imagine this being the same convo for the Torana/Sunbird foot operated handbrake, had the internet existed back then ..... :lol:


As a side note, the C63AMG still uses this amazing technology.


.

[mof]

What about the wrong turn down the narrow dirt road with no room for a three point turn. ;) Broke a few handbrake cables in my youth.

[ti0350]

I did the same thing the first time I drove a series 2 Captiva 7 when they were released...:lol:

MY big prob with my Captiva was I kept forgeting to put my foot on the brake before I pushed the button in when I was in a hurry to go.

[vyls1wa]

Ok just received an email from holden about the questions I asked about the EPB. Which conforms to me that they thought about it very carefully.

Hi Robert, The electronic park brake works exactly like a manual hand brake is the way it only applies the rear brakes to hold the vehicle when parked/stopped.

Also when using the electronic park brake while driving (Dynamic back-up mode) if in an event the hydraulic brakes(foot pedal) fail it also uses the rear wheels to slow the vehicle down however unlike a manual park brake the EPB also has anti-lock capability, which ensures that the vehicle stability is maintained throughout the braking procedure.

Another perk to the electric park brake is the safety re-clamp, if for some reason the elec park brake detects vehicle roll after an initial apply, this safety back up feature comes into play. it does so by re-clamping the park brake to its maximum apply force. Hope this answers your question! Thanks, Aaron @ Holden

[NickS]

Ok just received an email from holden about the questions I asked about the EPB. Which conforms to me that they thought about it very carefully.

Hi Robert, The electronic park brake works exactly like a manual hand brake is the way it only applies the rear brakes to hold the vehicle when parked/stopped.

Also when using the electronic park brake while driving (Dynamic back-up mode) if in an event the hydraulic brakes(foot pedal) fail it also uses the rear wheels to slow the vehicle down however unlike a manual park brake the EPB also has anti-lock capability, which ensures that the vehicle stability is maintained throughout the braking procedure.

Another perk to the electric park brake is the safety re-clamp, if for some reason the elec park brake detects vehicle roll after an initial apply, this safety back up feature comes into play. it does so by re-clamping the park brake to its maximum apply force. Hope this answers your question! Thanks, Aaron @ Holden

Sounds good ... so what is the point of this thread again ??? :lmao:

[vyls1wa]

Some warning about killer park brake?

[C4B]

Sounds good ... so what is the point of this thread again ??? :lmao:

Finding out exactly how the EPB on the VF works (after 90 posts it looks like we have). Cmon Nick, you've been on here long enough to know if we deleted/locked every thread that goes off topic, or isn't critically important to everyone on here there'd only be about 4 threads a year stay open.

[IJ.]

Finding out exactly how the EPB on the VF works (after 90 posts it looks like we have). Cmon Nick, you've been on here long enough to know if we deleted/locked every thread that goes off topic, or isn't critically important to everyone on here there'd only be about 4 threads a year stay open.
Would it be that many?? ;)

[NickS]

Finding out exactly how the EPB on the VF works (after 90 posts it looks like we have). Cmon Nick, you've been on here long enough to know if we deleted/locked every thread that goes off topic, or isn't critically important to everyone on here there'd only be about 4 threads a year stay open.

I know mate ... it's good to get some feedback on this, just seemed to be a few painting the picture that if you touch the button you'll be thrown through the windscreen!

[jaykay]

I know mate ... it's good to get some feedback on this, just seemed to be a few painting the picture that if you touch the button you'll be thrown through the windscreen!

I tried it Nick and my windscreen is in tact...oh and so am I :lol:

[planetdavo]

Sounds good ... so what is the point of this thread again ??? :lmao:

Yep...but it wont change many, if any, of the people against it.

[C4B]

I know mate ... it's good to get some feedback on this, just seemed to be a few painting the picture that if you touch the button you'll be thrown through the windscreen!

Caveat Emptor......