Coolant in transmission

[Old Bloke]

I've been away for a while but decided to return and currently have some serious transmission issues with my Calais V V8 and would appreciate any advice on offer.

About 2.5 weeks a go I get a call from the missus that she has pulled the car and turned it off as the engine warning light was flashing and temperature was in the red.
She was only about 500 metres from home so I told her to walk and I would leave work and meet her at the car and see what was going on. When I get there I find that the top radiator hose has blown off and sprayed coolant around.
I manage to get it back on and a neighbour drove me up to the servo to get some more coolant to put in the system so I could nurse the car home once it had cooled down.
The next morning I nursed it up to the local Holden dealer and they advised that part of the top pipe/flange had broken off and it would need a new radiator.
They gave me 2 options - genuine GM with 2 year warranty $945 or non genuine with 6 month warranty $600.
I asked what the difference was (besides the price) and was advised basically the warranty so I elected to go with the cheaper non genuine option.
The car comes back and drives OK for a week (about 250km) then the transmission starts to shudder under slight load, develops a pause when going from Park/Reverse/Drive etc and then clunks in to gear and it also started flaring on changes and seemed to get confused about whether to change up or down etc.
The car goes back to the dealer and they advise that they have found coolant in the transmission and have sent the new (non genuine) radiator back to the company that supplied it to them for testing and at this stage I suspect that either the radiator or installation of it of was faulty.
When asked how the coolant got in the radiator they say it must have been the old factory one, which is 4 years old & car has done 67K, although it has not been tested.

Today I get told that the test results came back and it pressure tested in both hot & cold OK and that as a worst case scenario I might need a new transmission which they estimate at about $7K or it may be able to be repaired for a lesser amount.

I just don't buy the coincidence of the transmission starting to play up a week after the radiator has been replaced and it not being connected.

If they had caused a fracture in the radiator during installation would this show up with pressure testing? Do they test whether the coolant & transmission oil are mixing when they test them?

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

[Ausmartin1]

It could be very possible that the original radiator caused the fault and that the water (coolant) leaking into the transmission oil caused a later failure...
or the later one.
Unless you were there and could verify the parts personally then this is too hard to second guess.
We take it you were doing the recommended coolant changes etc. as corrosion has very interesting side effects..

Get a good trans builder for their opinion and price.

[Old Bloke]

Thanks.
All recommended fluid changes were being done.
How long after coookant got in to the transmission are symptoms (shuddering/delay engaging gear & clunking and flaring/jerky gear changes) likely to arise?

[The_Senator]

$7k... Jesus!!!!

Holmart have 6 Speed Auto's for $2600... Where's the rest going to? Removal and Install?

[Old Bloke]

$7k... Jesus!!!!

Holmart have 6 Speed Auto's for $2600... Where's the rest going to? Removal and Install?

Not sure - wasn't given a break up, just a ball park figure.

[Woodchukka]

No telling when it might have occurred exactly however likely from the old radiator. The coolant will change the properties of the oil and can cause all sorts of dramas. It might be worth trying to put new oil in, take it for a drive (1/2 hour?), drain hot then new oil and filter and see how it goes.

Going to ask that all coolant changes were only using say the red coolant and not switched between red and green? They do not play well together.

As a side note bought a radiator for the wife's V6 VZ for $90 delivered from eBay and looked exactly like factory one. Been in a bit over 6 months (12 month warranty) and no issues as yet however don't expect it to last forever but factory blew seal in end tank at 165000 or so.

[Old Bloke]

[

Going to ask that all coolant changes were only using say the red coolant and not switched between red and green? They do not play well together.

I assume so - all service work has been done by the dealer.

[Angeldust]

i thought this was only a ford issue.. or is it now also common in ve/vf's ?

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

rads ar all made by the same mob borbely holden/ford

[IJ.]

Would expect to see a lot of Trans fluid in the Coolant as well seeing the internal cooler is at a higher pressure than the cooling system it would have been pumping into the radiator and only reversing when sitting with the engine off...

[Woodchukka]

Would expect to see a lot of Trans fluid in the Coolant as well seeing the internal cooler is at a higher pressure than the cooling system it would have been pumping into the radiator and only reversing when sitting with the engine off...
Wondered that myself but was unsure how much pressure was in the cooler and convinced myself if it was not there then cooler must have sweet FA pressure. I suppose the radiator has zero when engine is cold.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

cooler will have lots of pressure engine running
rad will have a max of about 12 to 15 psi engine hot and running
as already said drop the trans fluid /pan check for debris in the bottom if none found , change the filter and fill it with new DEXTRON 6 oil and give it a run could work way cheaper then a new trans if you find a heap of muddy looking stuff WITH SOLIDS IN IT go for a new or rebuild one ( keep in mind the oil will be milky looking that normal for water and oil mixed together)
as the oil with water mixed would play havoc with the fine clearances in the valve body of the box causing all the symptoms you have said ,any good auto trans shop could do it if you don't have a hoist
just need oil and a filter if your DIY (very easy ) but you must drop the pan to drain it properly

[IJ.]

Wondered that myself but was unsure how much pressure was in the cooler and convinced myself if it was not there then cooler must have sweet FA pressure. I suppose the radiator has zero when engine is cold.
Depending on how restrictive the stock cooler is probably around the 35psi mark Woody, so well over even a highly stressed cooling system so if there's no sign of oil in the cooling system I'd be looking at another point of ingress...

Pretty easy to spot oil in the cooling system as it'll leave a slime.

[Micks]

No telling when it might have occurred exactly however likely from the old radiator. The coolant will change the properties of the oil and can cause all sorts of dramas. It might be worth trying to put new oil in, take it for a drive (1/2 hour?), drain hot then new oil and filter and see how it goes.

Going to ask that all coolant changes were only using say the red coolant and not switched between red and green? They do not play well together.

As a side note bought a radiator for the wife's V6 VZ for $90 delivered from eBay and looked exactly like factory one. Been in a bit over 6 months (12 month warranty) and no issues as yet however don't expect it to last forever but factory blew seal in end tank at 165000 or so.

Going by most you did extremely well outta the factory Rad!!

[Ausmartin1]

Touch wood mines 12 years all perfect, just changed the coolant every 2 years along with pallets in my case, so it's outlasted all past cars :bravo:

[Old Bloke]

Thanks for the advice - unfortunately I'm not a DIY with this type of issue.

There have been some developments although causation is not clear at this stage.

[Woodchukka]

cooler will have lots of pressure engine running


Depending on how restrictive the stock cooler is probably around the 35psi mark Woody

Would not have thought it would be that high. Not familiar with flow path of return oil but sounds a bit restrictive?


Going by most you did extremely well outta the factory Rad!!

Got out of car smelled coolant looked and thought will need a new one of those. Next trip (down town the next day 5-10 one way) and it blew as driving in the drive way.

[redvxr8clubby]

No telling when it might have occurred exactly however likely from the old radiator. The coolant will change the properties of the oil and can cause all sorts of dramas. It might be worth trying to put new oil in, take it for a drive (1/2 hour?), drain hot then new oil and filter and see how it goes.

Going to ask that all coolant changes were only using say the red coolant and not switched between red and green? They do not play well together.

As a side note bought a radiator for the wife's V6 VZ for $90 delivered from eBay and looked exactly like factory one. Been in a bit over 6 months (12 month warranty) and no issues as yet however don't expect it to last forever but factory blew seal in end tank at 165000 or so.

My Clubby (M6) has had Green Coolant in it since I've owned it (7 years now and only travelled 30,000Km). It has been changed a few years back (had to replace radiator end tanks due to split). I recently bought 2 containers of red coolant to change it, but haven't done it yet. Is there any advice going from green to red.

[macca_779]

My Clubby (M6) has had Green Coolant in it since I've owned it (7 years now and only travelled 30,000Km). It has been changed a few years back (had to replace radiator end tanks due to split). I recently bought 2 containers of red coolant to change it, but haven't done it yet. Is there any advice going from green to red.

Flush it like you should anyway

[Woodchukka]

My Clubby (M6) has had Green Coolant in it since I've owned it (7 years now and only travelled 30,000Km). It has been changed a few years back (had to replace radiator end tanks due to split). I recently bought 2 containers of red coolant to change it, but haven't done it yet. Is there any advice going from green to red.
Mine had the green coolant in it when I bought it. When I changed to the red I flushed the cooling system then ran just water in it and after a few runs to work drained it and refilled with water. Did that 3 times. Could not see green tint to water after the 2nd flush but went a third time to make sure. Over kill... maybe but time wise it doesn't take long and I have had no issues.

[Drizt]

$7k... Jesus!!!!

Holmart have 6 Speed Auto's for $2600... Where's the rest going to? Removal and Install?

Yeh $7k is BS.

Talk to Kewish about it, I hear they are the people to deal with for A6's.

[Old Bloke]

My suspicions were right, the non genuine radiator supplied by the dealer was the culprit. It's a pity it destroyed two transmissions in the process (brand new transmission from Holden started to fail within 2 days of getting car back).
The car now has a new genuine GM radiator & fittings and a brand new transmission and appears that all is good now. The radiator supplier is now getting an $8.5K bill from the dealer.

[Woodchukka]

Good to see it resolved. Pity it caused you so much trouble.

[Ausmartin1]

Yes it just proves the non-oem radiators are not worth the risk.
Only non Oem parts in mine are accumulator pistons in the trans, sonnax make better self guided ones (duel seal, billeted aluminium vs OEM pin guided plastic).