Oil question

[HeathLS2]

Oil question
Hi all,

I've done some searches around but couldn't really find any current up to date info on the best oil for my VE SS. My car has A reasonable size cam/head package so I've been using 10w60 Castrol Edge Titanium. I've also tried Mobil 10w40 and it had a lot of ticking noises at idle and under light acceleration. The Castrol oil is a bit better but it's not the best. The engine isn't old either, it's a 2010 auto with 47,000 Klms so it's not like it's clapped out.

What is everyone else using? Any suggestions?

[Tryhard]

I'm using nulon 10w/40,seems to be alright.

[R8HSVHRT]

Try 20w/50 that's what I run in my ls1 cam etc

[Drizt]

If you want better than edge 10w 60 then fork out for mainlube 10w 60

http://www.racingdynamics.com.au/page20/page7/

[VNV8]

I wouldn't use 20w-50 on a nearly-new engine. A lot of folks use the 10w60 but it's too expensive for my tastes, especially when you have to buy 2 bottles at a time (the L98 takes 8.3-8.4L of oil). I use penrite 10w-50, but have considered using 5w-40 aswell, they use 5w30 or 10w30 from factory but with our temps extra protection can't hurt.

[macca_779]

Penrite 10w70 here. Dropped it yesterday and I had no metal on the sump plug unlike the last couple of changes. Which all started when I tried Castrol edge 5w/40 thinking it would be a good idea in a cold climate FAIL. I then went to Penrite HPR 10w50 for one fill. Dropped that when I changed my heads still metal on the plug.

On inspection found my cam was chopped out which is probably where the metal came from. Was it caused by the 5w/40 or not I have no idea but after years of trouble free motoring using edge 10w/60 I don't think its a coincidence. Was more damage caused by using the 10w50 doubtful as the cam was already at a point where it was being chewed so I don't think it would of mattered what oil I used, the wear would of continued.

Been using 10w70 for a few changes now (new cam) and it's been really good. No worse than the 10w/60 for noise. But I don't think any better either. Just cheaper.

Purchased oil yesterday and Castrol 10w60 was all I could get. So that's where I am now. But will go back to the Penrite 10w70 for sure.

[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

Im running the penrite 10 tenths synthetic. Its got some high Zinc additive crap. Also is e85 friently. A few mates recommended it as other oils in their cars were going milky due to the alcohol. Seems to be working out for me

[VZ_V8]

I recently gave the Penrite 10 tenths 10w70 a try, same as macca was using. I have been using Edge 10w60 since the car was new but when I put the cam and springs etc in the valvetrain noise increased a bit nothing overly concerning, just a bit louder. The Penrite quietened down the valvetrain noise a little and when I do the next change I will probably send some off to Mainlube to get tested the same as I did with the Penrite Pro Gear gearbox oil.

[boggers007]

I'm using Penrite 10w/30 in VE SS at the moment, bought it off my old man who always serviced it at holden which I assume was using 10w/30 also.

[brasher]

Great info re E85 compatable oil, always been putting in Castrol 10w-60 and it's been a bit milky, will try this Penrite 10w-70 with the added zinc.

[IJ.]

Thanks guys, Penrite for my next change, run it in everything else in the cars so may as well use it in the engine as well :)

[Micks]

I was a Castrol man but have switched to Penrite Synth & noticed motor is a bit quieter & oil is a bit cleaner!

[Drizt]

I was a Castrol man but have switched to Penrite Synth & noticed motor is a bit quieter & oil is a bit cleaner!

what weight?

[Micks]

Was using Castrol 10-40 recently went Penrite 10-60 plus or 10-70 as they call it.

[Drizt]

Cheers.

My mechanic father in law freaked out when I said I wanted to use 10w-60. I wonder what he will say if I changed to penrite 10w-70 :P

[offshore]

Does any one use Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60?

I use to Motul and a few others in my Subarus.

[BLACKVE]

10W60 edge in the head/cam VE on E85, no rattles at all from valve train

Tried 10w60 edge in VY head cam seemed to prefer 10w40 magantec, on edge little valve train noise

5w30 edge in misses SS does lots of 5km trips to work, afm and no rattles. Tried 10w60 was a bit rattly on startup.

10W70 is getting pretty thick for a modern motor???

[brasher]

That's what I was thinking, but E85 does really seem to "thin" it out a lot, When I drop my oil it seems like it comes out like water :|

[VNV8]

I had a similar experience with edge 10w-60 in my old VT LS1, sounded really awful heaps of valvetrain noise and the dreaded piston slap. Went to royal purple 10w40 then mobil synth S semi-synthetic and was far, far better. The VE does run at higher engine temperatures I wonder if that's why the like high viscocities.

[Blown 454 AWD]

There is no argument that thicker viscosities reduce wear, that we have proof of.

Valve-train noise can be cured by going from thin to thick and vice versa,

So there is no real rule here, either way can reduce the noise, depends on the individual vehicle.

And the reasons behind the out come, it is still a mystery.

Cheers

Steve

[Woodchukka]

I have tried different brands and viscosities from 10W-30 to now a 10W-50 within those brands and can not pick any real difference in the valve train noise at all or magical improvements in fuel economy. Some days valve train is louder other days not so much. Seems completely unrelated to temperature of the day or engine.

[RARASV8]

since doing my own services i have been using castrol 10/60 but by mistake i put in a 10/30 no difference in any noise still the same rocker rattle (i have 1.9 ratio rockers) have tried a 10/40 aswell, another mistake. i pick up the wrong bottle. the misses VT S2 with nearly 300 k's loves the 10/40 magnetic.

Garry

[redvxr8clubby]

Oil question
Hi all,

I've done some searches around but couldn't really find any current up to date info on the best oil for my VE SS. My car has A reasonable size cam/head package so I've been using 10w60 Castrol Edge Titanium. I've also tried Mobil 10w40 and it had a lot of ticking noises at idle and under light acceleration. The Castrol oil is a bit better but it's not the best. The engine isn't old either, it's a 2010 auto with 47,000 Klms so it's not like it's clapped out.

What is everyone else using? Any suggestions?

Given you've tried 10-60 and 10-40 and not happy, have you used the Holden recommended oil (I think 5-30)? I just had my VX serviced recently and although they have favoured Magnatec 10-40 a few years ago, they now favour Delco synthetic which was either 5-30 or 10-30 (I've forgotten which) I think it may be a little quieter than what the Magnatec was, but I haven't had the oil in it that long so it's hard to tell for sure. At the moment I am happy with the Delco oil. I've read so many differing oil opinions over the years on this website it's hard to come to a definite conclusion, and as Steve said what seems good in one car doen't necessarily work that well in another car.

[XUV]

, and as Steve said what seems good in one car doen't necessarily work that well in another car.

wonder if our aging hearing has anything to do with it? Should ask a teenager that can hear that hi-frequency buzzing " is my engine noisy " ...... ponder that ;)

[Micks]

Still having good results with Penrite full synth. Can try 10-40+ or 10-60+

[Drizt]

Anyone used Penrite Pemium 10 Tenths 5w-60 ???

[JoshR]

Hi guys. Would like some advice. I have 2002 VX SS, only mods are full exhaust, mafless tune and otr.. The catch is she's done coming up close to 200ks

Currently I have my mechanic using castrol 10w60. Which I had them use after a lot of research here and through google. Is this a wise choice? I'm not worried about cost because I drive this 80ks everyday.

Engine has the usual rear main seal leak and slightly noisy lifters.

Cheers
Josh

[Gmfan]

Anyone used Penrite Pemium 10 Tenths 5w-60 ???
I hadn't seen that fluid before you mentioned it. I run penrite fluids now in diff, trans, engine and have their coolant to go in too. Next oil change i'll do a flush and try their 5w-60.

[XUV]

Anyone used Penrite Pemium 10 Tenths 5w-60 ???
I was always a Penrite fan, back in the carbed V8 daze, and the more I read about their 10 tenths , the more that 5w-60 will be my next oil.

[Leha86]

Oil question
Hi all,

I've done some searches around but couldn't really find any current up to date info on the best oil for my VE SS. My car has A reasonable size cam/head package so I've been using 10w60 Castrol Edge Titanium. I've also tried Mobil 10w40 and it had a lot of ticking noises at idle and under light acceleration. The Castrol oil is a bit better but it's not the best. The engine isn't old either, it's a 2010 auto with 47,000 Klms so it's not like it's clapped out.



What is everyone else using? Any suggestions?

I use Liqui-Moly my 2002 VX Calais, 2002 Ralliart Magna, 2007 Hilux and 2001 N15 all the cars seem to run great on it. Having a quick look at their site says LEICHTLAUF SPECIAL LL 5W-30 for yours. Dont know if you want to try it or not.

[QldKev]

You can run oil that a person on the Internet recommends, or run oil that a professional in the industry recommends based on oil analysis testing. I run the latter.

[XUV]

I hadn't seen that fluid before you mentioned it. I run penrite fluids now in diff, trans, engine and have their coolant to go in too. .
yeah, i see Penrite have just released a 6 year coolant , will have some of that , as my ute is due for a coolant change.

pity they're not sponsor on this site ........

[Drizt]

You can run oil that a person on the Internet recommends, or run oil that a professional in the industry recommends based on oil analysis testing. I run the latter.

Out of curiosity has mainlube tested the Penrite 10 Tenths yet?

[Gmfan]

You can run oil that a person on the Internet recommends, or run oil that a professional in the industry recommends based on oil analysis testing. I run the latter.

Not knowing too muching about oils but are there not compromises to different oil weights? Say for example I drive 5km to work each day and engine barely gets to operating temperature then would the oil recommended to me be the same as someone that drives longer and flogs car at every opportunity and occasional strip/ track day? Will a heavier weight 10w-60 provide same protection from cold as a 5w or 0w-30 type oil?

[QldKev]

Out of curiosity has mainlube tested the Penrite 10 Tenths yet?

I've not heard of any testing being done yet. It may end up a better oil. I'll await any test results before changing.



Not knowing too muching about oils but are there not compromises to different oil weights? Say for example I drive 5km to work each day and engine barely gets to operating temperature then would the oil recommended to me be the same as someone that drives longer and flogs car at every opportunity and occasional strip/ track day? Will a heavier weight 10w-60 provide same protection from cold as a 5w or 0w-30 type oil?

I'm no professional in the industry, so I can only speak as one of the 'people on the internet' and how I see it. The pour point of 10w60 is -42c and 0w40 is -54c. So temperatures up at 0c and warmer that we see, both oils will pump up pressure no problems. For that initial 1 or 2 seconds the lighter grade oil may pump up quicker, but we are most likely talking less than a second difference. Once you have pressure both oils will commence providing protection. The heavier oil then provides better film strength / protection once the engine starts to warm up, which is a lot longer period than the initial startup period.

Possibly the lighter oil may be better if you never drive more than 5km. But the big downside to it, if you/another driver of your car does ever decided to become boy racer, and drop the hammer from the lights then 1 occurrence of the film breaking down and allowing metal to metal will do a lot more damage than the advantage of the lighter oil on cold mornings.


Couple of notes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
Motor oil must be able to flow adequately at the lowest temperature it is expected to experience in order to minimize metal to metal contact between moving parts upon starting up the engine. The pour point defined first this property of motor oil, as defined by ASTM D97 as "... an index of the lowest temperature of its utility ..." for a given application,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#cite_note-8) but the "cold cranking simulator" (CCS, see ASTM D5293-08) and "Mini-Rotary Viscometer" (MRV, see ASTM D3829-02(2007), ASTM D4684-08) are today the properties required in motor oil specs and define the SAE classifications.

[Woodchukka]

I'm no professional in the industry, so I can only speak as one of the 'people on the internet' and how I see it. The pour point of 10w60 is -42c and 0w40 is -54c. So temperatures up at 0c and warmer that we see, both oils will pump up pressure no problems. For that initial 1 or 2 seconds the lighter grade oil may pump up quicker, but we are most likely talking less than a second difference. Once you have pressure both oils will commence providing protection. The heavier oil then provides better film strength / protection once the engine starts to warm up, which is a lot longer period than the initial startup period.

Possibly the lighter oil may be better if you never drive more than 5km. But the big downside to it, if you/another driver of your car does ever decided to become boy racer, and drop the hammer from the lights then 1 occurrence of the film breaking down and allowing metal to metal will do a lot more damage than the advantage of the lighter oil on cold mornings.

I am running a Penrite HPR 10 (10W50) at the moment and in my last log at a coolant temperature of 23 DegC at first start in the morning I had 4.5 psi in fraction over 1 second and 53 psi of oil pressure in 1.8 seconds. I have not logged EOP in winter yet so I don't have figures on a really cold day as yet.

[Ratsmow]

Great real world info there chukka, be looking forward to the cold winter data. Be interesting to see the difference.

[Blown 454 AWD]

Out of curiosity has mainlube tested the Penrite 10 Tenths yet?

Lets address this one.

Lubricants that Forums use wouldn't be 0.5% of our turnover,

Therefore Forums are a bit of a charity to Mainlube,

I don't get paid for the amount of time I spend here, it's not cost efficient.



Apart form that, what test do you think should / could be done here that would help?

There are so many variables here it turns into many different tests, all quite expensive.

The only company in the world that are all over this is Lubrizol,

they make most of the additives in the world and spend enormous amounts of $$$ on testing.

They can run an engine for 6 months testing a new additive, so these are the dudes that test engine life etc.

Rest of us have to suck and see at the end of the day,

Filtergram would be next in line to what Lubrizol does in analysis cause it's real time view of what's happening.

Cheers

Steve

[Drizt]

Sure, no problems with that.

I assume you have done some particular tests for you to recommend edge 10w-60. Just wondering if you have done the same tests with 10 tenths 5w-60.

[bozodos]

Unfortunately for us, it's not in Steve's interests to test other brands of oil. We're lucky he's recommended anything other than the Mainlube!

[XUV]

looks like Nulon have done some testing
http://www.lessfriction.com.au/ scroll down on page to see different grades of oil
the 10w-60 link http://www.lessfriction.com.au/results/10W60/


http://youtu.be/0pLo9F6Sr_g

[Ratsmow]

I think most people reading these oil threads probably have trouble getting there head around the difference in spec between what mainlube recommends and factory spec. I use what Steve recommends but I definitely noticed extra drag on the motor and less mpg than 10w 50 I was using. I'm hoping once i do more miles on the 10w60 the motor will free up and spin up as quick as it did previously. My engines stock with a mafless tune and exhaust by the way, pretty much the minimum Steve would recommend using a 10w60 in.

Personally I'd like to see the 0 degree start up test, to see how long a couple of different oils respond, like chukka posted previously.

[matthewfnorbert]

tests appear to be based on 'boundary lubrication' mode (metal to metal), of course we don't run in that mode (and avoid it at all costs). oil cleanliness to ISO std and WDA is the only way to compare oil performance in real world for our use.

of course nearly EVERY oil thread on this board is highly subjective and mostly irrelevant... as we don't keep our motors for say 1.5 million kms/30,000 or operating hours to see the engine life benefit of one quality oil over another quality oil both fit for purpose. then of course the most significant filter in a car to extend engine life AND keep oil clean of hard particle ingress and resultant wear debris is ignored or quality reduced for better air flow, the air filter! 0.02c




looks like Nulon have done some testing
http://www.lessfriction.com.au/ scroll down on page to see different grades of oil
the 10w-60 link http://www.lessfriction.com.au/results/10W60/


http://youtu.be/0pLo9F6Sr_g

[Ratsmow]

The nulon thing looks good but it would be nice to know what the other oils are.

[QldKev]

Cool advert, but that is all I see. They sent every brand of oil for testing, but only show a limited set in the results. Why, maybe they left out the results for all the ones that beat them.

[QldKev]

also, wasn't these friction testing machines designed for grease and not oil?

[Ratsmow]

I think mat and kev raise good points here.

[Woodchukka]

tests appear to be based on 'boundary lubrication' mode (metal to metal), of course we don't run in that mode (and avoid it at all costs). oil cleanliness to ISO std and WDA is the only way to compare oil performance in real world for our use.

of course nearly EVERY oil thread on this board is highly subjective and mostly irrelevant... as we don't keep our motors for say 1.5 million kms/30,000 or operating hours to see the engine life benefit of one quality oil over another quality oil both fit for purpose. then of course the most significant filter in a car to extend engine life AND keep oil clean of hard particle ingress and resultant wear debris is ignored or quality reduced for better air flow, the air filter! 0.02c
What I find interesting is when you look at the test results and compere their (and I am cherry picking) own syn0W40 to the syn10W60 the coefficient of the 0W40 @ 100 DegC is 0.06 - 0.063 and the 10W60 is 0.056 - 0.057. So when the engine is at operating temp (or higher if pushing the engine) the 10W60 is a better option according to their theory? I do recall Steve saying once (and Steve correct me if wrong) that the weight of oil has sweet fa to do with how slippery it is and that seems to prove it. So running a light oil appears may have little to no effect on economy if you use the right oil. Now we seem to come full circle. The right oil.....? Pick one use it if you like it because the engine is quieter, more efficient, less wear, etc keep using it as if you had to pay to find out then you would spend more than the wear you would save. If you want to push the engine :yup: then a 10W60's greater film strength will protect the engine better than the 0W40. The choice people is ultimately yours.

[Ratsmow]

Good find chukka, I didn't pick that up when I looked. Now I want to see the difference in friction between castrol and nulon at 100 degrees.

[Blown 454 AWD]

ON a F6 Turbo we did back to back testing and viscosity didn't make 1 kW

difference between 0w40 and 10w60 so we didn't see any drag, this was with Mainlube 175.

I know people have felt a difference they say when they changed viscosities however, we didn't with the Mainlube.

We even put Solid Boundary in this motor, back to back made 10% more torque however, technology is too scary. (Solid Boundary passes through the filter)

Cheers

Steve

[Ratsmow]

Just in reply to what you found on the dyno Steve, I haven't noticed a difference in peak power cause I never drive up in those revs for too long and I don't believe your ass could feel the difference in peak power anyway with an oil viscosity change. What I did notice was was how long the motor takes to spin up to those revs, the motor just feels a little lazier, but I guess that's the trade off with castrol compared to mainlube.

I did read one of your posts somewhere that said the oil will like wear the bearings etc in again and the motor will free up again ( well words to that effect anyway), or that was my interpretation, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Blown 454 AWD]

30 to 40,000 saw a noticeable difference in liveliness,

it's subtle, kinda like that cold crisp night performance but all the time.

Cheers

Steve

[Ratsmow]

Sheeet, that long, my cars only got 27000ks on it. Guess I'll be waiting a while.

[Blown 454 AWD]

Sheeet, that long, my cars only got 27000ks on it. Guess I'll be waiting a while.


Unfortunately yes, it takes a while, look at it this way, you're polishing metal with oil, takes a while.

(slippery stone in the river polished with water)

The difference with internal parts, they look chromed instead of a silver Saturn finish.

But it make quite a difference when it gets there.

Cheers

Steve

[Ratsmow]

The old river pebble theory eh. That makes sense even to a Nuffie like me.